The Ramsey Show - App - Don't Use Family Time to Justify Stupid Decisions (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 23, 2019

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Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Starting off this hour is going to be Erica in Oklahoma. Hi, Erica. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, we are $900 away from getting Baby Step 3, and since we started listening to you since we found you last January, we've paid off close to $40,000 in debt.

Yeah. And we've cash flowed. I was a high-risk pregnancy. We had a baby last month, and we cash flowed all the bills prior to her birth. Wow. Those are coming in, but we just found out last week that we need to have some pretty in-depth repairs done to our home. And we suspected these, but we put them off because we didn't have the money since we were working the baby steps and so my question is we're so close to baby step free and we've had two contractors come by so far we have a third

one coming this week and the first has given us a quote of 6 500 the second one 12 000 we'll see what the third person says i don't want to take out, obviously, a whole line of credit. So there's water damage, mostly because of just rainwater, and it's getting into the crawl space, and it's cause settling, and our homeowners insurance will cover that because it's an act of God. Yeah. And so how long has this been going on? We suspect before we bought it, we're the third owners.

How long have you lived there? Two, three and a half years. Okay. And so what is wrong with waiting and saving up the money and fixing the house? Why are you panicking? Because it has caused some structural damage underneath and inside the house. And it has gotten worse because we did inside the house. Mm-hmm. And it has gotten worse because we did put it off.

Mm-hmm. And when we did the home inspection, when we bought the home... So do you have any money? You said you're on baby step two or three? We're not two. We're $900 away from starting baby step three. Okay. Well, I mean, if I'm in your shoes, what I'm going to do is I'm going to pay cash for the repair after I finish getting out of debt.

And if it causes a little bit more damage because I wait a little bit, I'll live with that. The house is not going to fall in. Correct. Right. Yeah. It's just a pain in the butt. Okay. Can I?

Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm not going to tell you to borrow money to fix this house. Oh, no, and I was hoping, I knew that you wouldn't. I don't know if I was hoping for a magical wand that hasn't appeared in one of your podcast episodes yet that I haven't heard. Well, if I find one, I'll pull it out of my pocket, I promise you, because I'd love to help you. I'd love for you to do this. But the thing is this, you have done a fabulous job of getting yourself out of debt, and you, for the first time in your lives, have managed money and gotten money under control. Yeah. And you did that by working a solid...

And so this tells me that you're going to have this repair done in 90 days. Yeah. Your budget's going to allow you to save $2,000 or $3,000 a month towards this when you don't have a single payment in the world, because you're used to doing that already, right? Yeah. And if I can't ask you, I wanted to call into your show for a long time. I've tried.

And I wanted to ask you another question, but then this happened. My other question, I used, before my daughters were born in 20, my older daughters were born a few years ago, I was a teacher. And so I had about $16,000 sitting in my teacher retirement fund. Not that I want to use it for this repair, but my question has been, I don't know if I'm going to go back to teaching so i haven't touched it because if i pull it out and if i roll it over to a mutual fund or a roth if i do decide to go back and if i want to start the same step that i was when i left

for retirement purposes i would roll that to a i'd roll that to a traditional not a roth but to a traditional ira the way there's no taxes on it. And, yes, you do lose your position in the retirement, but so what? That retirement underperforms what you could do with good mutual funds anyway. So you're better off to roll that, and you're right, don't use that for the repair, unless it's an absolute emergency and the house is about to fall in. But I don't think that's the case. I think you're going to get there, and I think you're going to knock this 900 out.

You've got brand-new twins and a high-risk pregnancy. You guys have had a lot of drama. You've had a lot of stuff hit you, and in spite of all of that, you've still got your wits about you. Well done. You've not gone crazy. I mean, well done, because you still got your wits about you well done you've not gone crazy i mean well done because you got stuff coming at you left and right so you're gonna be okay this is just the next thing that's all it is it's just the next thing the other day the next thing was new twins now the next thing is fix the house and then there'll be another next thing. And some of the next things are more fun than others.

The twins were fun. This is not fun. So you'll get there, though. You have the ability to knock this out before the house falls over. And that's how Sharon and I did it. We just said, we're never going back. There's no thing that can happen that will cause me to borrow money ever. I'll find another way to do whatever it is. Ever.

Ever. That's a long time. Ever. Guys, it's officially summer. It's hotter than hot outside. The AC is running overtime. The last thing on your mind right now is Christmas. Yeah, Christmas.

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Like they move it or something. They don't move it. It's always in the same place. And if you don't think the stores aren't planning, Target's already put out Halloween costumes. Now, that's sick, Target. I'm just saying. That's sick. But, you know, they got a plan to make sure you celebrate every freaking holiday,

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Text CASHCHRISTMAS to 33789. They'll help you get her done, baby. This is the news, guys. You need to stop and listen. The Fed decided not to raise interest rates. That means you've got a small window of time before rates rise again. Here's the deal. Most people are paying too much interest on their largest expense, their home. So you're freaking crazy if you don't take 10 minutes to call Churchill Mortgage right now

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Hi, Savannah. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? Hey, yes, sir. I can't hear you.

You're not speaking directly into your phone. Oh, can you hear me now? Yes, thank you. How can I help? Okay. Yes, sir. My husband and I are 26 and 27. We just sold our first home and made a pretty good profit.

We want to build in the next three years. My question is, we have a car. We were idiots, and we were going to build a tiny home. We were going to be a part of the tiny home movement. None of that really worked out for us. Anyway, long story short, we bought this vehicle to pull the tiny home. It broke down on us. We ended up buying a brand new car. We've paid it down quite a bit, but we want to know if we should sell this car, the only debt that we have, or in Baby Step 2, or should we keep it and pay it off and then start toward BS3 and then saving toward a down payment?

Okay, so when you sold your home, you made money on it. Yes, sir. Where's that money? So that money went to pay off a credit card card a little bit of my husband's student loan he'll graduate in may with his nursing degree with his rn good okay and so um and so what is the car what do you owe on the car we owe 18 000 on the car okay and so what do you make a year i make about 50 000 okay and he'll be making more than that probably when he passes his bar next May, right? Yeah, he'll be taking his income.

See, I'm a teacher, and he's going into the medical field. He's the one that takes the more lucrative career. Thank God. Yeah. But, I mean, he's going to be making, as an RN, he'll be making $60,000 or $70,000 coming out of school, right? Yeah, he'll literally be tripling his income. Yeah. Oh, he's going to be making, as an RN, he'll be making 60 or 70 coming out of school, right? Yeah, he'll literally be tripling his income. Yeah. Oh, he's already making money.

Okay. And so, what kind of car is the car? It's a 2017 Toyota Camry. Okay, and do you like the car? Yeah, I love it. Okay, all right. Well, our rule of thumb on cars is pretty simple. It's if you like the car and you want to scratch to keep it,

if you can pay it off in less than two years and be 100% debt-free other than your house, which you can do, okay, and the car, all of your cars, everything with wheels and motors added together is less than half your annual income. That way you don't have too much invested in things that are going down in value. everything with wheels and motors added together is less than half your annual income. That way you don't have too much invested in things that are going down in value. Then it's okay to keep the car and get it paid off. I wouldn't go in debt using that rule, but I'm saying if you're already there and you're already there. So, you know, you can knock this $18,000 out pretty quickly with your current income,

much less, you know, when his income goes up considerably next May. If you haven't already gotten it done by then, you may be out of debt by then. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And then start saving. Then finish your emergency fund and then save for your down payment on your house. Okay. Yeah.

And then how much do you recommend for a down payment on a home? Well, obviously, if we're going to try to get the house paid off as much as possible, the first-time homebuyers, we don't lean on you that hard. But if you can, if you can scratch up and wait long enough that it's reasonable, 20% down is a great idea. And the reason it's a great idea is you avoid pmi private mortgage insurance which will cost you about 75 a month per 100 000 borrowed it's a lot of extra kick in the pants if you don't put down 20 they just take you to the cleaners on it and so that's what goes to

the territory not putting down a big down payment but 20 down is tough to do in your situation i mean you're going to be waiting a little bit longer so that's up to you to make that call but um you definitely need to be debt free and have your emergency fund in place before we start talking about buying a house and that's your so the car is somewhat slowing down that process but it's not the end of the world you can knock all of this out you're still still going to get there. Dale is with us. Dale is in Arizona. Hi, Dale. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Thanks, Dave. Glad to be here. Good. How can I help? Yes. What I was thinking about is we're on baby step three. We're trying to save our fully funded emergency fund. We have no debt

except our home which also has a little bit of a private loan attached to family members in it um that we want to pay back to help us to avoid the pmi like you were talking about but the thing is in different stages of our lives we were just concerned you know we're trying to also enjoy our you know three kids and and go on trips and things like that um where would you kind of would you delay because we want to pay off our house eventually but you know we don't want to try to rush it and and and miss the time that we can have with our family growing up and things of that nature how do you feel about those things well i think you just budget them because i mean if you want to say if you listen listen under the heading of i don't want to miss time with my family people have done some amazingly stupid butt things

okay all in the name of i don't want to miss time with my family we took a twenty thousand dollar around the world cruise you know well and we make $20,000 a year. Well, that's stupid. Okay, that's not nurturing. That's stupid. But if you're just saying we're going to take some normal vacations and so we're going to put a couple thousand dollars less on our house a year because part of our family budget is to have a normal vacation in the summer or to have a ski boat that we pay cash for so we spend some time on the water you know all that kind of stuff that's fine that's living your life that's okay but just be careful that you're not doing nothing towards your future and you're you're entertaining

your brains out yeah i'm focused and not finished but we're you know we'll get there yeah i mean that's like you say we're not going to get there as fast as we want because we have three kids and well the point the point is after baby step three and rice rice and beans yeah i'm not saying rice and beans your whole life that's not what we teach yeah we teach you rice and beans until you get through baby step three now you do need to be on rice and beans then and no whining about the kids and the nurturing and all that crap you need to get yourself out of debt and get your emergency fund in place. Now, once you get past that, you let your foot off the gas a little bit, and that's when you do a vacation, or that's when you save up and buy a couch,

or that's when you save up and buy a ski boat, or that's when you save up and go on that cruise you wanted to go on or whatever. That's all fine. That's part of your program while you're doing baby steps four, five, and six. But all that means is you're probably limiting, or anytime you spend money on a cruise, it's less that you put on Baby Steps 6 is what it amounts to. And so instead of paying your house off in, you know, in four or five years, you may pay it off in seven or eight years.

Well, so what? That's fine. That's cool. I'm good with all of that that and that's what we teach but uh i'm not going to pay attention to anything because i'm going to enjoy my family that's just that that's code for i want to be an irresponsible child again and i'm not going with that part but if you're you know we do teach you know have some balance enjoy your life yeah there's once you get past baby step three. But until then, your house is on fire. Your hair is on fire.

You have a problem. Five alarm. Thing going on. Fire trucks are everywhere around you until then. But once you get past that, we let our foot off the gas in baby steps four, five, and six. And we do baby step four. How much we put towards college. How much we put towards the house.

Reducing the house. All of those things are lowered by increased enjoyment, increased lifestyle, increased things we do with the kids. And that's all cool. We did that at the Ramsey house. We took some really nice trips with our kids as they were growing up, and it slowed down our wealth building because we consumed some of our income and that's perfectly fine but you cannot use that as code for i'm going to consume all of my income and move back into the land of irresponsibility i don't think i heard you saying that but i want to make sure for all of the 16 million of you out there listening

that we have lots of clarity on this because there's. Because there's a whole group of people that, you know, we eat and we drink for tomorrow, we die. Right? And so, you know, yeah, and we're not going to be children. We're not going to be, thank God it's Friday, oh, God, it's Monday. And I don't think that's what you were saying, Dale. But the thing is, when you do get past baby step three, that is where you let your foot off the gas. We're no longer gazelle intense.

We're just intentional. We're focused and not finished, as Hogan says. But we don't lose our focus. We don't take our eye off the ball. We go ahead and keep playing in the game. And that's being an adult. Hey, good question. Good discussion.

Thanks for calling in. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Rick is with us in Iowa. Hi, Rick. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you, Mr. Ramsey, for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Yeah, my wife and I are blessed and currently debt-free and looking to retire in less than a year. Good. With that said, we're looking at purchasing a condo, which would be our second home um and it's out of state and um the question is um

would you recommend us finance the condo if you have the cash to pay for it never okay you called dave ramsey and asked him if you should go in debt well i guess i look at the low interest rates and i know uh you called dave ramsey and asked him if you should go in debt. Under no circumstances would I do that. Okay. You've worked your whole life to have a nest egg and not have debt. Nope.

That makes sense. Any other do's and don'ts in buying a condo, then? Check the HOA operations. Look at their budget and make sure that they're budgeting adequately for capital improvements. Sometimes they'll artificially run the HOA fees down because they're not funding improvements that they have to do later. And then the roof or the parking lot is going to be a big assessment later, which will drive your value back down. Well, that makes total sense, and I never thought of that. If the HOA is not

being operated properly, you can destroy the value in a condo big time, so be watching for that. How much nest egg have you guys got? We've got between our 401k and investment, we probably have around $2 million. Way to go, man.

Good job. We've been blessed, and we've worked hard and over our lives. So what are you going to spend on the condo? We're looking at around $300,000. Oh, perfect. Yeah, definitely write a check for that. Yeah, absolutely. Okay.

You're 100% debt-free, and you're going to have a condo and a house, and you're worth a couple million dollarso and a house, and you're going to be worth a couple million dollars. How much of this did you inherit? Actually, I guess probably $200,000 from my mom and dad, but that's it. We just saved. How long ago was that? Probably, he's been gone three years ago. Oh, so you were already a millionaire before you got that.

Yes, correct. Yeah, so you became a millionaire starting from nothing yes way to go man yeah well you know what we've worked hard and followed some of your principles so um but we don't want to screw it up now and yeah it's great so low you kind of wonder if you should be here here's the thing yeah i know but here's the thing. Don't overthink stuff, okay? Okay. Simple principles are what got you here. You're not a millionaire because of the highly sophisticated methodologies that you used. You simply invested steadily over decades. Am I right?

Yes. My mom was 60. Yeah. And you simply avoided consumer debt during most of that time am i right yes correct and you simply got your house paid off as one of your major goals am i right that is correct there's nothing in here that is phd level sophistication this is grandma's common sense that you used and you have two million freaking dollars touchdown baby well thank you and well done all your advice over the years well it wasn't

my advice so you did long before me and obviously your mama did good too she left you a couple hundred grand so she wasn't doing too bad well done man very very well done. Yeah, pay cash. Stick to dance with the girl that brought you. When you go to the dance, dance with the girl that brought you. Stick to the principles that got you here. Now's not the time to abandon all that and go back and do stupid stuff that other people do. So that's all I'm saying. You're a smart guy, man. You've done great.

Two million freaking dollars. Well done, sir. You've done great. Two million freaking dollars. Well done, sir. Very well done. See, what he is is one of those everyday millionaires that we talk about all the time. And, you know, if you haven't heard the story, we started talking to people like him, and we got intrigued with it. And so Chris Hogan and the Ramsey team did this detailed, in-depth research study. As a matter of fact, it's the largest study of millionaires ever done. Over 10,000 millionaires we studied.

You know what we found? 79% of them inherited nothing. Another 5% inherited less than $100,000. And another 5% were like him. They were already millionaires, or they got the money that they got so late that it didn't have any effect on them becoming a millionaire. So if you add 5 and 5 and 79,

what do you get? 89% of millionaires are not there because of inherited money. That's 9 out of 10. What does that tell you? It tells you two things. One is the political diatribe that's going on in the news media is a bunch of crap that you have to inherit money

and that the little man can't get ahead. The little man gets ahead every freaking day in America. That's what that tells you. Number two, what does that tell you? You can do this. You can be Rick. How fun is that? You can be him.

You can do this. And by the way, they weren't all doctors and lawyers. As a matter of fact, doctors weren't even in the top five. Doctors are notoriously horrible at handling money. They're right up there with musicians and sports figures. You know who number three or number four was in the list of careers? I mean, engineers and accountants were in there, right? You know who was in there? Teachers.

Teachers. Teachers. Steady. Steady investing. Didn't inherit their money. And Chris put all of these 140 of the statistical findings from this study into a book that became a number one bestseller called Everyday Millionaires. And Rick, he's a walking case study of one of those. Yeah, very well done, guys.

Very well done. So the point of all of this is do not, listen, just turn off CNN, turn off CNBC, turn off Fox, turn off NBC, turn off CBS, turn off ABC, if they're telling you you can't win and you need someone in Washington to fix your freaking life. Because I'm 58. They have never sent me any money. Those people in Washington have never sent me any money.

All they have done in my life is take my money. I have never gotten a check from them. I certainly didn't build any wealth because of them. It was in spite of them. And so when they tell you they're going to fix your life, instead of you going about the business of fixing your life, then you're being sold a bill of goods. You're being sold false hope.

It turns out that all the data points tell us what happens in your house is more important for your destiny and your future and your life than what happens in the white house your house is more important you control enough of the controllables you control enough of the variables and you get to be that guy so proud of him that's so well done that's so american that's so beautiful never in the history of the world has a little man starting from nothing had a better chance at building wealth than they do right now today in america in spite of all of our problems in spite of all of our problems, in spite of all of our divisions and our disagreements, in spite of all the things that are wrong all over the place,

the injustices that are out there, in spite of all of that, regardless of your sex or your skin color, the data points tell us that you can still go win. As a matter of fact, you're more likely to do it now than at any time in history. Yes, there are barriers. Yes, there are things that are unjust. Yes, there are things that are unfair. Yes, that is all there. But none of that will keep you from doing it.

You can still do this. You invest in your 401k and get your house paid off. Invest in your Roth IRAs and get your house paid off. Stay out of debt so that you can invest in your 401ks and your Roth IRAs and get your house paid off. Stay out of debt so that you can be outrageously generous. These things change the shape of your heart. They change the shape of your life.

They change the shape of your family tree. They change the shape of your destiny. And they're in your control. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Music Our Scripture of the Day, Colossians 3.17, And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God through Him. Albert Schweitzer said, Example is not the main thing in influencing others, it is the only thing.

Harold is with us. Harold is in Idaho. Hi, Harold. How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Well, we had this opportunity given to us. My wife worked for drug rehab for many years, and the owner has decided to retire and give my wife the business and sell her all the property. The property we're getting is $250,000, but it's worth a little over $400,000. Drug rehab barely makes enough to pay all the bills and everything, but it comes with a house, too, which we are going to turn into a safe and sober which will add another three thousand dollars a month you think i should pull the trigger on it i still have time to back out okay um so he's giving her the business right but wants to sell her sell you guys the property that is worth $400,000, but you can buy it for $250,000? Yes.

It sounds not real, but it's true. Okay. So why would you not just buy it and turn around and sell it? That's what I'm doing. It has a real estate investment, but it's my wife's career. Well, it's not a career if it doesn't make money. Uh-huh. It's a hobby if it doesn't make money. It's a hobby if it doesn't make money.

So the business does not make money, right? It pays everybody's wages. No, I mean profit, net profit. We kind of figured out that the net profit at the end of the year after paying anything is like $20,000 to $30,000. Yeah, so it's not even a good job. Right? Yeah. I mean, why would you work 40 hours a week for $20,000?

Well, she would plus get her $60,000 a year that she makes as being a counselor. Okay, so basically you would own your job, not a business. Yes. It's a predicament. Well, I'm not sure I would run this business. The reason he's giving it to you is it's not worth anything. No, she's retired. She has four other ones.

She sold them all. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, there's no. She has four other ones. She sold them all. No, yeah. No, I mean, there's no value to this business. It doesn't make money. That's my point. So I'm not sure I want the business. Probably just shut that down and buy the real estate. Now, so the real estate is where the business operates, though?

Right. It's huge. It's ten offices, three conference rooms daycare and then has a house a four-bedroom house next door two-story house that's we can turn in next week as a uh rehab for for men to live there that'll generate about three3,000 a month. So what makes you think the property is worth $400,000? It's been appraised at $405,000 or something like that. By who?

The tax appraiser? Uh-huh. That's not an appraisal. That's a tax appraisal. That's not a market value appraisal. This property sounds like it's a very unusual property. It is. It cannot be

sub-vited. It has a two-story house and a big office, and it can't be divided because they're too close together. Yeah. It needs to be as classified as one office. Yeah. Sometimes we call those in the real estate business white elephants. You ever heard that phrase? Yes.

You can't get rid of it. Well, the property, real estate market in Idaho is hot. Yeah, but not hot for a weird property that you can't subdivide. No. I don't know. I mean, you guys are going to have to get a lot more comfortable. So far, I've not heard anything in here that's really, really super exciting. Yeah, me too.

I don't know if you could turn around and sell it for $405,000. I think I would want to get a regular, I think I'd get a real estate agent to look at it with you and let them do a market analysis on what they would put it on the market for. Let's look at that idea. And I'm assuming you don't have the $250,000, right? No. Well, we've already been approved for the loan and everything. It's going to cap in the next week or two, but we still have time to back up.

Yeah. it's going to cap you next week or two but we still have time to back out yeah yeah i i would want to um i'd want to look at a detailed appraisal and i'd want to have a plan for this because honestly 20,000 and 36,000 a year is not worth messing with as far as going this far in debt to get that um there's too much danger there if one of the two of those things doesn't work and you know you're basically running this whole business, and you could have gone and worked a job, made $60,000, but now you're running this whole business for $20,000 is what it amounts to. And that's – unless you kind of see some ways you can cut costs and make this business much more profitable when you take it over, and, you know, maybe it's too thick on payroll and he was too nice a guy to let people go or something i

don't know that you've either got to get the revenue up or the expenses down on this business for it to make sense um if your um rehab thing doesn't work on the house all of a sudden you've got a problem here with this real estate so i you need to have better plans for all of this that have more room in them than what you're describing or you should not go forward one of the two so hey thanks for the call i wish i could be more help jackie is with us in arizona hi jackie how are you hi i'm. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I have a question. My husband and I, my husband's 59, just about 59.

I'm 53. We do not have any debt. Our house is paid for. It's worth about roughly $340,000. We have retirement. We have been maxing out Roth IRAs for several years and have about $110,000 there. I have a few random retirements. We total, with our house, we have a total of about $700,000. And my husband contributes 12% to his retirement. He works for, has a state retirement, and they match that 12%. And so I was, my question is, with his retirement and our Roth IRAs,

should we be putting an additional 15% of our income into retirement above and beyond that? Yes. Or are we doing that now? You ought to be maxing out everything. Okay. Everything that's available to you. Because you're 100% debt-free. You're on Baby Step 7.

Yeah, okay, yes. You're not on Baby Step 4. No. When everything's paid off, you max out everything and keep the government's hands off of as much of it as possible. So you're going to have all of estate retirement with that match, and you're going to put money aside in 401ks like crazy. And you should be millionaires soon. Yeah.

That's the thing. We just haven't been knowledgeable enough to i did have mine in reach in some retirements and i put them into a roth ira savings which is only making about two percent right now oh you did that as a stupid bank yeah yeah yeah so what you guys need to do you need to get an advisor in your corner you're about 10 years late doing that but you can still do it so just jump on dave ramsey.com and click on smart vester because you're getting ready to be a smarter investor than you've been by learning some things click on smart vester and it will drop down a list of the smart vester pros in your area that uh that you can choose from these are the people that we have gone through and looked at and they have the

heart of a teacher they're going to sit down with you and show you some fine-tuning that you can do, roll some of these Roths, move some of this stuff around into good mutual funds to get it to where it's performing much better, and you'll get a lot more mileage out of the money that you have and the money you're putting in going forward. You max out everything you can at that point. So, hey, really good question. You're doing better than you feel like you're doing because you don't feel it because you don't know what's going on. Just learn it, learn it, learn it, learn it. Get with a SmartVestor Pro immediately.

That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there is ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about a product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything that is mentioned during this episode in the podcast show notes section. Thanks for listening.