The Ramsey Show - App - Dumb Debt Decisions Won't Accelerate Your Financial Growth

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Waschall, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today as we take your calls about your life and your money. The phone number is 828-825-5225. Hugh is in Las Vegas. Hi Hugh, what's up? Hello, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, how can I help? I'm debating on getting into a situation where I may be going further into debt to pay for attorneys to try to protect my kids further. It's kind of been a big struggle. How long has it been going on and what's the danger? It's been going on about six years. My ex-wife is a very abusive person. She's psychologically, emotionally, and it's affected all of our kids. And the divorce was finalized about a year ago, but. Took five years to do a divorce. Uh, yeah.

Why? Because, uh, she wouldn't agree to anything, wanted to litigate everything, had agreements at different points, and then she refused to sign the papers. She lied about stuff. She's giving money, just all kinds of stuff. Who has the kids now? What's the agreement now? Well, right now, just recently, the kids were taken away

and our oldest son was granted guardianship of them. Taken away from you or taken away from her? From both, although I already did not have any custody or contact with them due to other court proceedings But we're already ongoing How old are they? There 13 15 16

Okay, so you were granted no custody. Your older son has the three kids and they're safe? Yes, for now. Okay wow what do you make a year? about 50,000. Okay, and so the money that you're spending is for three years for a 13 year old or four years for a 13 year old and by the time it gets to court the other two probably won't even apply right? Possibly. They're gonna age out. It's in court now. Basically I'm trying to... What's in court today? Well, it's this whole guardianship that my son has is temporary. I'm trying to support him in keeping that and to keep custody away from her. But I'm being told that I may be facing charges soon and it feels like all these lawyers

that are involved have kind of, they want to prolong this fight and I'm the one who doesn't have an attorney, so I'm the target, you know, is kind of what it seems like. Why, why, you told us that she was abusive and all these different things. Why didn't custody go to you? Are there allegations against you as well?

Yeah, in this case, he got charges, he said. The court, so I actually filed for full custody of the children at one point and the court refused to have a temporary order hearing and said that instead we would go to actual trial in three months time, I think at that point. And then a few weeks later, my ex-wife went and filed for emergency ex parte custody with a bunch of false allegations that she made up. And it was granted without me even knowing, uh, that, that there was anything

going on, uh, I was never allowed to present any evidence against those allegations. It was just assumed that I'm guilty and they were taken away. And I assume your bank accounts dry. Oh yeah. Below dry. Whenever the children were taken from me, I started borrowing large amounts of money to, to hire an attorney to try to get this put back on track.

How much debt do you have today? Right now, I believe it's right around $70,000. Okay. All right. Well what I do when I'm facing these situations is I don't start with debt. I start with no debt and I figure out how I'm going to handle a very difficult situation without debt. And it's very difficult. I don't have an easy answer for you, but you know, it's going to involve selling things,

it's going to involve no additional debt. You've already got 70,000, we don't need to add to that. So it's going to involve selling things, it it's gonna involve you working six jobs in order to pay attorney's fees and again the perspective is this is for a very short window because the vast majority of these kids by the time this gets done are gonna age out because once they're 18, this is over. Yeah. Can I ask what their living situation is?

Yeah. But like how are he so young? How is he paying? How is, are you sliding money over there? How, how are they being taken care of? Um, well, I mean, he's, he's, uh, he's 28 now, I believe. Uh, he's, he's got a good job. He's married. He's got a house, you know, uh, now, I believe. He's got a good job. He's married. He's got a house, you know.

Now I, which we haven't even gotten to like child support. I've been ordered to pay child support for quite a while now. I've been paying that, which is part of the reason why I've not really, I've not been able to hire an attorney because I'm having to pay almost a quarter of my any feminine child support. So I'm trying to get it arranged where now he can be paid the child support by most of us, most of the parents. Yeah I guess what I'm asking you, what I'm asking is, I mean this is your business also

you called a national show, but my question is, are the kids best with the brother? Is that where they're best? Because if they are, maybe instead of continuing to drag them through this for an it's already been six years, right? Can they have some stability and peace for the next, you know, four years of their teen life? That's exactly that is exactly what I life. That's exactly what I want. That's exactly what I'm trying to fight for

is to keep them with him. Okay. I'm not trying to take them away from him. I'm trying to keep them away from their mother to get the teens to fight. I appreciate that. Okay, okay. Yeah, so I think, you know,

what we're doing is just scratching up nickels out of the corner of the couch in order to try to pull this off. And that's going to be working an extra job in selling stuff. And you've probably already done a lot of that. And a lot of the things you've probably learned more about the legal system than you wanted to know. And so you probably can file some things on your own to try to get some help down at the courthouse just somebody teach you how to do it and to redirect the child support to him that'd be that'd be an amazing move right there and then you know if you if you sell your house or you sell your car

and you get a cheaper car in order to help save your kids that's not a bad deal that's a fair trade because I can't think of anything much more important than saving the kids and wow what a disaster What a mess? I'm sorry. I'm sorry you've been through this Caleb is in Chicago. Hi Caleb. How are you? Pretty good. How are you guys doing better than we deserve? What's up? I? Appreciate the phone call. Um, so me and my wife I was looking for some advice. We want to take our family, we have three small children. Our dream is to buy a Canadian fishing lodge and run that from about May to

November every year. The issue that I'm running into just because I'm new at this is trying to come up with, figuring out how to come up with a down payment for something like that. You know some of these lodges range from $250,000 to millions of dollars. I'm trying to figure out what's the best way to go about doing something like that. It depends on how much money you have to spend. You don't have any money to put a down payment down? I mean I've, I think I could probably come up with between my, me and my wife and, you know, asking my parents for, you know, a small amount to pay back. I could probably come up with maybe around a hundred grand,

but it seems like that won't take me very far. What do you make? Right now I make about 90,000. What do you do? But I'm in, I'm in construction and a job I really don't like. I'm away from my kids. Have you ever worked in a Canadian fishing lodge? No, but I'm really, really good with my hands, really knowledgeable about fishing and hunting. I've been doing both. Zero knowledge about business?

Zero knowledge about business, yes sir. A fishing lodge is 90% business, yes sir. A fishing lodge is 90% business, 10% fishing. I'm just going off of what I've talked to. I've got a couple, you know, mutual friends now of course since I'm in this process of owners up there. I've talked to them and they both, both the ones I talked to are they've been, they've owned a lodge now for about 10, 15 years and they didn't do this before didn't run business before. One of them was in construction just like me. Yeah, I'll tell you I don't I've never been to Canadian fishing lodge.

I don't know what what that is. Is it something do you live on the property is it like a bed and breakfast where you live there and you provide you know, all of this for for your guests and you're live on the property? Is it like a bed and breakfast where you live there and you provide all of this for your guests and you're living on the property? Yep, we would live on the property with my family and what we're looking for, we are not gonna provide the American plan, which is food and everything.

It's more of just you're coming up there, you're fishing, we'll guide your fishing trip, we'll guide your hunting trip, we'll guide your hunting trip, show you where to go, stuff like that, but we're not going to provide the American plan, which is all your meals included. So just play this out with me. So you said these could range from 250,000 plus, right?

All the way up to a couple million. So let's just pretend you said, okay, I'm looking at the $250,000 plan, my family lives on the property, I put 100,000 down. So we've got the place, we're living there, and now we're starting to rent out the experience to guests. What happens next? On your end, like what's the next step?

I guess I don't know what you mean. What do you mean next step? So you've got the lodge, you purchased the property. What's the next step? How do you build out the business? How do you get people to come to you? How do you build a profit? The next one's, yeah there's already an existing customer base on most of them because you're buying a turnkey, but a lot of the lodges up there for sale are elderly people that are trying to get out and they haven't

marketed in years. They don't do online marketing. They're only relying off of their annual return customers. Ah, okay. Like I said, both the people I talked to that have purchased the Lodge in the past 10 years said it was really easy to get a lot to up their customer basis. It was really easy with simple marketing tactics, you know. And what do they earn? Like what's their net profit? What are they getting out of this? I mean I couldn't ask them that. I'm not close enough to them to ask them

exactly what they're earning. But the first, go ahead. If you said I'm gonna put $150,000, I'm gonna put $100,000 down. I'm gonna buy a $250,000 house with $100,000 down. I'm gonna have a $150,000 house with a hundred thousand down. I'm going to have a $150,000 mortgage and I'm going to start a new business and I don't know anything about the business other than I know about fishing and I talked to three

people who said it's a good idea. So the elderly people are going to owner finance the 150 and hope you make a go of it okay yep so are you are you 27 or 29 28 yeah almost like I've done this okay and so I'm your old ugly uncle that's 64 that loves you. Okay. You are about 90% dream and about 10% reality in talking to you. Yeah.

You have no freaking idea what you're getting into. You just think you do. And it's very romantic with rainbows and skittles and unicorns in your head right now and when you get up there and get dirt under your fingernails and realize this is freaking mess and what have I gotten my family into that's about the time you're going to discover how this really works so I really would love for you to go work at one for one of these people, operate it for them as a part of the purchase plan before you close on the deal. Like run it for a year and see the numbers and see what is wrong with this.

Because the only impression you have is all positive and there are three rules of business, Caleb. It's going to take twice as long as you think, it's going to cost twice as much as you think, impression you have is all positive and there are three rules of business, Caleb. It's going to take twice as long as you think. It's going to cost twice as much as you think and you're not the exception. Those are the three rules of business and you know, the way you're painting this is you are using fantasy language, not reality language and it scares me for you. I'm afraid you're going to turn this dream into a nightmare if you're not real careful.

And so I'm afraid of that too. I really want you to get some reality on you in this thing and get under the rainbows and the skittles and find out what the flip is really going on up there. And why is it that there seems to be a lot of these for sale? And there's a problem here, okay. So I really wanna go work up there.

I want you to take your family up there on vacation for three weeks, find an old couple that wants to sell a 250,000 one, write down a contract that says, I'm gonna work for you for a year. At the end of that, I'm gonna close on this. If I find out things to be the right thing, be the way that you say they are,

and if I can get financing or if you provide me financing. And what's it mean for you to be doing business in another country? You're in Chicago going to Canada. Now you are an immigrant. I don't know what it means for an America to immigrate permanently and buy a business in Canada. I have no idea how to do that.

I do know it's probably more difficult than it was 12 months ago. Uh-huh, uh months ago. So you know you've probably got some issues there and you know I really want to understand the business better than you are doing. So the way I always ask myself when I'm going into something as a business person, would I hire me to do that? And if the answer is I don't know what the flip I'm doing, no I wouldn't hire me to do that and if the answer is I don't know what the flip I'm doing no I wouldn't hire me to do that then that tells me not to go into that space

until I learn some more about it and I'm a hundred percent sure you don't know what the flip you're doing on this well there's no you can fish no numbers I don't doubt that but you've never run a business of any kind and you're stepping in this I'm not trying to be a dream killer. I love killing nightmares though. I love killing nightmares. So I want you to go forward with this slowly, carefully, and much more wisely and then while you're doing that, work like a crazy man and pile up some cash

and come up with your down payment and get one of the old people to owner finance it because I don't think a bank's gonna touch us with a 10 foot pole dude and that's probably good for you that they won't. So guys, the wonderful thing about America is that we live in the free enterprise system and the wonderful thing about America is

that 54% of the gross domestic product is brought to you by small businesses. All the goods and services totaled up, over half of them are delivered by small businesses. People like Caleb who started something. So I love encouraging the free enterprise system. I also have spent 20 years coaching over 20,000 small businesses through our Entrez Leadership brand. And I see all

the things that go wrong when you're doing this. So, you know, you're not the exception. It's gonna take twice as long and it's gonna cost twice as much. Those are the three rules and they do apply. They apply to me. To everybody. You're not the exception. When I get ready to go into, when I get ready to go into, we're gonna open an app. We're working on one for Dr. John Delaney right now. Let me tell you what, our projections on that are known as a guess. We have no idea what the stupid app's gonna do.

And we need to build out our business model as if the thing does nothing, and then when it does something, be pleasantly surprised. You know, and so so and you can get digital advice but everybody's got a dad gum opinion they're like armpits they stink oh my god Caleb needs to invest his first investment needs to be in your book let me send him on send him on trade leadership and send him build a

business you love I want you to do this I want you to do it in such a way Caleb that it doesn't kill you I want you to do it in such a way Caleb that it doesn't kill you Jade Walsh is with me one of our favorite things to do is get to talk to people who are heroes in their own story They took control of their lives and they come in here into our lobby and they stand on the debt-free Stage that's where Colby and Mackenzie are. Hey guys, how are you? Wonderful. We're doing great. Awesome. Where do you live? Chattanooga, Tennessee fun and how much debt have you paid off?

$32,000. All right, and how long did this take seven months? I kicked it and your range of income during that time $82,000 What do y'all do for a living? I am a family ministries youth pastor at a local church in our community. Awesome. And I just work in employee benefits. Just? Okay, that's pretty good. Very good. So what kind of debt was this $32,000? It was all school debt. Okay. Wow. All right, so we had a student loan debt and I'm just guessing, looking at this story, you might have been married about seven months.

Yes, I knew it. Okay, all right. So first order of business when we get married is get rid of who's student loan debt? Mine. Okay. She said, don't look at me. All right.

All right, and under door number two. I love it. Okay, so before you got married, you realized you had this, and there must have been a discussion at some point during the dating process. Please tell me the story, it's gotta be awesome. We were very open about all of these types of things,

and her family is a Dave Ramsey family. I mean, she's known these things her whole life and mine was not. I did not have these principles taught to me growing up. So when I asked her dad, who is also our pastor at our church, so I go to him. So for your boss. Yeah, he's also my boss.

That's a lot of pressure there. He's your boss. Oh man, that's a double dip. So I go and I go ask him for his blessing and it was a conditional one that we do premarital counseling and take FPU before we got married. So we decided to do that and it was life changing and we sat down and got on the same page on everything

and as soon as we said I do, we just went gazelle intensity on it. Then we did, I do and I did. Yep. I like it. I like it. So, I just listening to you and looking at your demeanor, I don't think it bothered you that he put that condition, Colby. Oh, not at all. Not at all.

I- He's like, I'm ready. I think we both agree with this, but we wanted to do everything the Lord's way. And I think one of the things that FPU and everything that y'all have built here, everything points back to scripture. Everything points back to,

hey, we don't wanna be slave to the lender. So for me, that was what it was. I'm gonna do everything the Lord's way. We're gonna do everything the Lord's way and he'll honor that. So yeah. So you had to get started on this. You got started on it on your own

before you guys got married. And then once you got married, that's when you kind of linked arms on it. Yeah, we took the FPU course like separately. Our coach was amazing. And he said, do a hypothetical budget of what it's gonna look like when you get married. We knew what our rent was,

we knew what all our utilities would kind of look like. Some things changed, but that's how we were so ready to go day one. We were like, let's get this done. And day one, we started it because we had that hypothetical budget in place, so. So tell us how you got around it, because a lot of times people call into the show

and they feel some sort of like guilt of, these are my student loans, I feel bad, you know, bringing them into the marriage. She shouldn't have to pay, you know, they've kind of got that separate mentality. How did you guys get around that? Well, I know for me, I did the Dave Ramsey plan and I went to school completely debt free,

put myself through a bachelor's degree. But coming into that, there was just honestly, Dave Ramsey's, like the FPU course in general, that just lined us up on everything. I mean, I know people say it's your debt, it's my debt. When we got married, we eliminated that because we're better as a team. We attacked it the way we knew we could,

which is fiercely, and every extra dime going towards it. So that wasn't a problem for me. I don't think that's a problem for either of us. We walked in. Biblically too. I mean, when you get married, you become one flesh. So for us, everything then is combined. We are one together.

And I think when you have that mentality, again, when you're going about everything the Lord's way, it all just makes sense. So. So, you know, it's weird, because that's the exact same stipulation I put on my blessing. It's a great stipulation.

For Bill and Winston, I said, you know, you gotta go through FPU together, it's pre-marriage, and you gotta go to pre-marriage counseling, and that's all I asked. And they're, you mean I don't have to be out of debt? Nope, you just gotta be working on it. And they both went, whew. Yeah, I bet.

Thought he's gonna be worse than this, Dave. Yeah, well, I kinda wanted to mess with you, but I just thought I'd tell the truth. So, yeah. So, very cool, you guys. Well, man, I like your dad. He's a good dude. He's a big fan of yours. Really? Well, way to go, you guys. Well, man, I like your dad. He's a good dude. He's a big fan of yours.

Well, way to go you guys. That's a beautiful way to start everything and what it amounts to is not just the debt but what it represented as the overarching thing in your whole lives is we're going to align on scripture. You know, pastor's daughter, pastor's employee, we're going to align on scripture, you know, pastor's daughter, pastor's employee. We're gonna align on scripture, right, and we're gonna we're gonna align on money and we're gonna align on everything else and so you've set the table for an incredible life overall. The money piece is just a little bit of it but absolutely beautiful. Very

proud of y'all. I bet they were all cheering you on weren't they? They were so excited for us. They were so ready to see it going for us. We were so pumped. That's so cool. All right, so you tell people that are thinking about getting engaged, is all of the stipulation going through the thing and learning together and going to a stupid class and all that,

because I mean, people roll their eyes sometimes, right happens and so and rightly so I understand that but the I mean that young couple out there that maybe are not as enthusiastic as you all were to just dive in on this talk to them and tell them is it worth it and what is your key to getting out of debt what is it what do you blame getting out of debt on I would say for the young, soon to be married couple or the young couple that's about to start life together, when it comes to wanting to be debt free, the freedom that you can feel,

knowing that there's nothing holding you back anymore. The world's just gonna keep getting tougher and tougher, finding abilities to be a homeowner one day is just gonna continue to get tougher and tougher. And abilities to be a homeowner one day is just going to continue to get tougher and tougher. And instead of going at it with, hey, let me do what everybody else is doing. Continue to follow the mania of just going into debt, going into debt, going into debt. Be different and trust the Lord. That's the biggest thing. All of this is biblically based. If you look at the Word, the Word does not want you to be in debt. God's created us to be free. If you look at the word, the word does not want you to be in debt.

God's created us to be free. He set the captives free, right? So when we have this opportunity to come and say, okay, let's go at this together. Let's not be do-ish, right? Let's not go somewhere in the middle. Let's go all the way and let's attack life. I'd send my high schooler to his youth group.

Come on now. Preach it, pastor. No. Preach it. I'd send my high schooler to his youth group. Come on now. Preach it, pastor. Preach it. I was holding myself back over here. I like it. That's good, man. Well said, well said. You're great at your job, I'm sure.

I appreciate it. God's call on your life. Excellent, brother. Well done, you two. Well done. All right, Mackenzie, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Just doing it and cutting back eating out.

I'm not gonna. Ah ha, yeah. Ah, okay. That's one thing we discovered shortly after getting married. Ouch. Yeah, I learned to cook real quick and that changed our budget completely.

So do everything in your power to get out of debt. You guys are so impressive. Budget's a big thing.. If you ain't tracking you ain't trying that's what our FPU coach would always say. Can I steal that? Steal it. It's probably one of your teammates here saying that. Wow love that. That's good you ain't tracking you ain't trying. I like it well the Every Dollar app does that and even more now. So well done you guys very proud of y'all Y'all are superstars very fun stuff all right Colby and Mackenzie set for life. How old are you two by the way? 23 Wow There we go millionaires there. We hear about the time. They're 30 Colby and Mackenzie Chattanooga, Tennessee

32,000 paid off in seven months making 82,000 as brand new newlyweds. Count it down let's hear a debt-free scream! Three, two, one, we're debt free! Yeah! And all the old people are going, I wish I'd done that in my first seven months. Oh, no, that's right. All the old people are going, where was that when I was that age? Oh my gosh. When it was here, it was called common sense back then too.

But wow, what a great start, man. Wow, powerful. You ain't tracking, you ain't trying. That's my takeaway. Game on. Game on. trying that's my takeaway game on game on you want to be Colby and Mackenzie if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck wondering where your money's going your first step is getting on a

plan our team is hosting a free budget training this month you're gonna learn step-by-step how to make to and stick to a budget using every dollar. Cause if you ain't tracking, what was it? You ain't tracking. You ain't trying. You ain't tracking. You ain't trying. There it is. Plus you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q and a, we may just make that the new byline for every dollar. I like it. It sounds like something Chris Campbell would say. He's our, he's our every dollar guy. Yeah. Sign up for free at every dollar.com slash webinar. Spots are limited. It is a free budget training. Don't miss it. Terry is in Montana. Hi, Terry. How are you?

I'm good. Um, thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So about four years ago, we, um, started meeting with a financial planner. Um, and she talked us into getting some whole life insurance policies for my husband and I and so we did that and recently I've been listening to a lot of your show and hearing how you feel about whole life policies so I gave her a call to let her know that I wanted to like cash those out and surrender them or whatever the terminology is for that.

And I initially left a message for her. She called me back and so when she called back I was just like, yeah, I've been listening to Dave Ramsey and you know, he's not a big fan of the whole life insurance. So she shot back and said, you know, Dave Ramsey, he has so much whole life insurance. That's how he's planning to, to, you know, share his wealth with his, with his family and kids when he passes on. And like making feel really bad for even asking to cash out my insurance policy. So like now I don't know what to do because I really like in my mind the premiums are due in June I pay annually and I was like well it really had my

heart set on cashing those out doing taking whatever money we got from them and maxing out our Roth IRAs for the year. It's a lot worse than a whole life life insurance situation this This is really scary because your financial planner is a crook and a liar. A liar, yeah. That's bad. That would scare me if I were you because I obviously don't have whole life life insurance, Terry. That's just completely asinine. I mean, that would be on the front page of the New York Times, okay? That'd be like Dave Ramsey has a credit card, you know?

I mean, come on, or I leased my car. I mean, what kind of dumb butt would say Dave Ramsey leased his car? A crook, okay? I don't lease my cars, I pay cash for them. You know, I mean, Dave has six credit cards because he likes the air miles. I mean, what kind of dumb cards because he likes the air miles. I mean,

what kind of dumb butt would say something like that? I mean, this is not only a crook, it's a dumb crook. A desperate crook. You know? And so, yeah. Every time we've asked her to do something with our money. I mean, it's a non-starter. Don't let your financial planner be a crook. Fire her. Okay. Fire her. Right. Get away from her. I will.

You gotta get away from her, honey, because if she'll lie about this, what else is she gonna lie about? Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. And she's not really a financial planner. She's an insurance agent posing as a financial planner. She works for an insurance company, doesn't she?

No, she works for Thrivent. Yeah, that's an insurance company, doesn't she? No, she works for Thrivent. Yeah, that's an insurance company. Is it? It's a whole life insurance company. They're not financial planners. They're whole life life insurance salesmen. And she's a crook. I thought they were financial planners. No, she's a life insurance salesman. And so, yeah, they're not financial planners. So financial planners represent many different products. She sells one, Thrivent.

And so, no, you need to get away from her. Let me just tell you. And move my funds away from her. Listen, you need to go see someone else. Go to one of our SmartVestor pros or go somewhere else and sit down with someone that is an independent person that can sell mutual funds, can sell insurance, can help you guide you through this and will not shame you when you get ready to make a decision about your money. Yeah, because the thing you have to realize is, and it's not for you to lord this over,

but they're working for you. You're paying them a percentage to do a service for you. So you're the one, if there is a balance of power here, it rests with you. They shouldn't be manipulating you. They shouldn't be trying to kind of make it seem like they're the smart one and you're the one that doesn't know what they're talking about.

That is the wrong feeling when you're working with somebody, especially with your money. Yeah, so I mean, here's the thing. You walk in on a car dealer floor and they say, you know, you need to lease the car, Dave Ramsey leases car. You don't just say, no he doesn't. You just say, peace out. I don't do business with crooks that lie. And you walk to somewhere else and you go somewhere else. I don't do business with crooks that lie. And you walk to somewhere else. And you go somewhere else. I walked in to buy a washer and dryer with my wife one time at an electronics store and the guy tried to convince us to get an extended warranty

and I said, oh we don't do extended warranties. I'm so arrogant I thought he recognized me. He didn't. And he goes and says, Dave Ramsey gets extended warranties on everything he buys here and I said well I'm pretty sure he doesn't and he goes oh yes he does I can show you the file and I said I'm pretty sure he doesn't and I handed him my drivers license and he said oh yeah that's what he said yeah. Oh biscuits. Oh biscuits yeah that's what he said and my my wife is like, and he's like, we're gonna make you a great deal. I'm so sorry.

I'm like, you couldn't give me this whole freaking store right now. And Sharon's like, well we need to, I'm like, Sharon, I need to leave here before I say something and he has a real Dave Ramsey story. Uh huh, uh huh. So we're going to Lowe's and buy it over there. And so, oh my God, you know? So you just don't do business with crooks, hon. Because once they lie to you about one thing, you know they're gonna lie to you about something else.

Or you don't know when they're lying. And she's showing that you guys don't have the same values. You said, you made it clear to her, I value Dave Ramsey's opinion, I listen to Dave Ramsey, and rather than really take that to heart. Or just say, you know, I agree with Dave on some things, but I disagree him, and here's the points, and argue on the merits.

Yes. But you know, but that's so, yeah. But here's what's interesting. You know, 20 years ago, people said this, like whole life agents would say that, that's been going around for years. They also say I own a term life insurance company, which is absolute bull crap,

I don't own a term life insurance company. So I would have made a lot more money if I did. But I don't, Zander owns it, and he pays me ad money. I get money, ad money off of Zander. So, but they tell this stuff, and back then you could get away with it, but now there's this thing people called the internet, and there's this thing called social media, and there's this thing people called the internet. Ah, yeah. And there's this thing called social media.

And there's this thing called a podcast. And so Terry can call here and actually talk to me. And ask. And so if you start lying like this, it's gonna cost you now at a different level than it used to cost you. There was a timeshare place that set up at the local mall and they would tell people,

Dave Ramsey's got three of our timeshares. Oh my God. And so our producer went over there with a microphone, Blake, back in the day, and got him to say it, and he said, now we're gonna put this on the air if you ever say it again. Yeah, put him on blast. That kinda put an end to that crap.

I know you did. But it's the same stuff, it's just people, when you got no defense for your crappy product, you lie. You lie, that product, you lie. You lie. That's what you do. And Thrivance whole life life insurance product is crap. It's knee deep manure right along with the other whole life products that are out there. So geez man, unbelievable.

That's so funny though. It's so cute. I mean, did you actually think you could get, in this current environment of the digital world we live in that you can just say crap and just get away with it. Of course everything on the internet's true, right? If you live your life that way, good luck to you. Yeah, you need to find another way to save your sales.

Like actually logically defend your product line, but when you can't do that because it's such crap, then you have to go to these extremes. And that's just sad, it's just really sad. So Terry, get you, look, when you're looking for a real financial planner, they're going to have the heart of a teacher. Now the SmartVestor Pros are mutual fund brokers,

is what they do. They do not work for me. I am not on commission with them. I don't own them. But I recommend them because they have to have the heart of a teacher or they will not be one of the SmartVestor Pros that we recommend. And they're going to go along with the stuff that we teach here on the air. The four types of mutual funds and your rollover IRAs and your 401ks. I hope you get your kids college funds started. Make sure your will is intact. And of course, you know, they're not going to sell you life insurance. If they did, it would only be term. Otherwise, they wouldn't be recommended by us. Hello.

Isn't that hard? Wow, this is such a difficult job. Not! Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Thanks for hanging out with us America. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author. She's my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Sam is in Buffalo, New York. Hi Sam, how are you? Hi Sam. Hi Mr. Ramsey, thanks so much for taking my call. Good afternoon. How are you, sir?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So, Mr. Ramsey, I am looking for your permission to be able to spend money and live well while I'm young. I'm going to provide some context. My wife and I are both physicians. We collectively make a little under half a million dollars over the last five years We've been living only off my paycheck and using her paycheck entirely towards her student loans I did not have any student loans. So we had the luxury of doing that. We recently paid that off. Yeah way to go Yes, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. We're very happy. So we have this new Income which we've never used before. For the most part we live pretty conservatively. I drive the same car I did in residency and we did buy another

car as our family grew. We pay $500 a month on that and we plan on paying it off by the end of this year, calendar year. Mr. Ramsey, I more and more as I'm getting older, I'm 37. Oh, you're ancient. I don't know how you get around. And just trying to keep up with you I suppose. I am, the people around us are getting old as well and we look to them as examples, family and friends and what I tell you is most of our closest family members are not living their retirement life. They thought they would.

My father passed away last year after about a, an illness that took him about a decade to sort of succumb to, and prior to that over the decade, he was not mostly nonambulatory. My father inin-law was diagnosed with early onset dementia before the age of 60 and now is in a nursing home. So both my mother and mother-in-law are living lives that they never thought they would and I looked to them and although the sample size is small I worry about my wife and my health as we get older. As a

physician my paycheck is mostly guaranteed I mean I'm licensed in three states if we lose my job God forbid it would not be very hard to find something soon. We have a little over $100,000. What's your question? Yes sir my question is is it okay to spend say 15-20 thousand dollars a year on traveling with my wife creating memories? Of course it is. Okay okay okay. I don't teach people to live in a cave and collect lint when they make a half a million dollars unless you're working on getting out of debt But you didn't exactly sacrifice when you got out of debt You're still living on 200 grand while you're getting out of that you got a car loan

Sure, and then you went and borrowed money to get a car. So pay the stupid car off and not by the end of the year Dude, yeah, how much is what do you make you make like 40,000 bucks a month? Geez, yeah. Well, yeah Yeah, how much is it? What do you make? You make like 40,000 bucks a month. Geez. Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah, pay off the car. And go on vacation. And go on vacation. $15,000 worth three times a year.

And you don't, and let me also add to that, because there was a lot of like comparing to other people's lives and why, just this is your life. Like your life is your life. This is your income. This is what you did about your debt and this is how you're going to go on vacation. You don't have to justify it by all these kind of like woven in things that you were doing. So you're a doctor. You see sick people all day long. Could that possibly skew your decision making? Of course it could.

100%. Yeah. So, you know, and so all you see is So all you see is all these things. I'm a guy that helps people not avoid bankruptcy. So when I pull up to a stoplight and see a nice car, I see a car payment. I don't see a nice car. So anyway, all that to say yes, of course. We teach people baby step one, $1,000, two is out of debt, everything but the house. That includes your car and your student loan.

We're there now. Then baby step three is an emergency fund three to six months of expenses. I'm guessing you have some money saved for an emergency. Correct. How much? I do. Yeah, we have a little over $100,000. How much do you owe on the car? $8,000. Okay, pay it off tonight when we get off the phone. Okay. Now, then and then you're 100% debt-free except your house, right? Correct. Good, okay.

Now we've got an emergency fund, we're at baby step four. Start bidding 15% of your household income away towards wealth building and retirement. And then let's start paying off the house. But when you leave baby step three and you are debt-free and have your your emergency fund we teach people to move from intense Which is where you don't go on vacation or out to eat to?

Intentional which is where you do go on vacation And you do buy a nice car because you make freaking half million dollars a year you need a good car Don't drive a hoopty and certainly don't put your wife in a hooptie and so you know and so yeah you need to go and you need to spend more than 15,000 on a vacation that's what I was gonna say but I didn't that's not much of a vacation for a guy that makes a half million dollars okay you need to do I want her in a Four Seasons yeah put Waldorf or St. Regis yeah I want her I want her enjoying this. Okay. Which by the way is going to make you enjoy it.

I hope she is listening cause you were going to go take her to Marriott. I know you were. Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, you know, after listening to you, I always want to cover my defenses and my, you know, I want to make sure that we're able to pay for you. You're in great shape. I just want you cover my defenses and my A.I. I want to make sure that we're able to pay for the kids. You're in great shape. I just want you to do everything on purpose. That's all I want you to do.

I want you to look at the whole picture and say I have this much, if I put this much on a vacation, mathematically it's irrelevant. $15,000 to $30,000 on a vacation when you make a half a million is 8% of your income. It's financially mathematically irrelevant. You could take that much and burn it in the middle of the floor and your life would not change. That's the way you need to learn to look at it. It's the burn it in the middle of the floor example, the ratios.

Now if you make 30 thousand a a year and you wanna call me and say I'm gonna spend 30,000 on vacation intentionally, I'm gonna say you're intentionally stupid. Don't do that, okay, because that's 100% of your income. No, we're not doing that. But, you know, so I... The hard part I think comes when it's something that, clearly your wife values experiences,

that's a love language, a spending love language she She has clearly it doesn't seem to really be yours So it's probably harder for you to justify that amount so looking at it through that lens should make it easier to say hey She values this it's the mathematical side is still what Dave said But if you can look at it and realize that that's why you don't want to spend the money. It's not because you don't It's not because it's too expensive. You're exactly right. And here's the thing. We need to make sure everyone hears the message more often because he didn't get the message

of live like no one else. So that. So that is the key conjunction. You can live and give like no one else. I'll guarantee you that Sharon and I are leaving in two weeks on a two week vacation vacation and it wasn't 15,000. I don't want to know how much it was. I'm gonna scare scare don't scare the people. We live like no one else and I'm not being snobbish but I mean I've worked my butt off for a long time now I'm an

overnight success right so you know it's, it's an irrelevant amount of money of course, mathematically in my life. But so live like no one else so that you can live and give like no one else. Increase your generosity to people. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. to people. Our question today is brought to you by WhyRefi. Some lenders won't touch defaulted private student loans, but WhyRefi was built for this exact problem. They'll explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate custom built refi for your situation. Visit whyrefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Alright, today's question comes from Nathan in New Jersey.

He says, we have paid off our debts and are working on a six month emergency fund. Baby step three. It's been a dream of mine to day trade via algorithms and I believe I have something that is very profitable, roughly 300% annually. I've done everything I can to test my theory and it has worked so I feel the risk of losing is low. However, I know Dave, just try to work with me here. However, day trading requires

25,000 in the brokerage account and it would take about a year to get that capital. How would it be wise, would it be wise to use the emergency fund as capital for the brokerage fund and only trade with money we have saved beyond that 25,000. I would still retain the 7,000 in an easy to get to account in case an emergency happened. Okay, let me tell you why Dave was laughing. Well, first you said that you believe it's gonna be profitable.

Is there a Nigerian prince involved? Probably on the other side of this meaning it's a scam. My thing is you know that you need the 25 000 to test it, which means you really haven't tested it. So you really are just operating off of belief because he ran he ran Hypotheticals. Yeah, but pretended with he ran the numbers as if he had done the investment. He ran the algorithm and the algorithm worked. Okay. Which is the worst possible thing that could have happened to him. Probably, yes. But there's the part of this that it's still day trading. And the statistics on this are really, really bad. It's so bad. I think I read one. It was- George Campbell put this in his book. I saw him the other day. I happened to flip up and see him

on my Instagram watching George Campbell. Me watching George on Instagram, imagine that. The number I had, the last piece of research I saw was 78% of day traders lose money. Interesting. George's recent piece of research he just picked up is if you persist in day trading longer than six months, 97% lose money. That's what I was gonna say, 97% lose money. That's what I was going to say, 97% lose money.

Let me help you with that Nathan. Speaking from the perspective and algorithm, 97% is all of them lose money. Over time, yes, which means you're not making money. Yeah, so honey, you need to find another way to make money instead of trying to beat a system that no one has ever beat. And especially to put your emergency fund up to try it. That just screams of greed and desperation. Yeah, why are you so desperate? That's the question.

The question you need to walk away from Nathan is why must this happen so quickly for you? What is, because like Dave said, it's- What is wrong inside of you that's causing this? Uh-huh. Because something's wrong, of you that's causing this huh because something's wrong honey because this is straight-up stupid it's your family's emergency fund you're putting your family stuff at risk here to do something that 97% of people fail at and you think you found the silver bullet I'm sorry pride comes right before the fall. That ain't happening.

So. And even if you played it out, even if you're a person listening to this and you're like, well, it's not my emergency fund. I've got some money to play with and I paid off my debt. If you like burning money, this is a good way to do it. You can just completely set it on fire in the middle of the floor.

I'd rather buy a car that goes down in value to nothing. At least I get some fun out of it. I'd rather go to Las Vegas. At least that's more fun. It's not that fun. Losing money is just not fun. There's nothing hilarious about it. Really? Like when the table's hot Dave? Come on. You get a drink. Dave don't come on. You and Rachel can go play craps. Dave don't play craps. So I just work too hard for my money because I noticed that the furniture and the chandelier right above that craps table is really nice. And I know who paid for that losers. That's who paid for that. So it's entertainment. Dave, the people, the people entertained. Are you not entertained? Yeah,

that's it. So there we go. Yeah. Now that's Nathan, honey. This is, this is, you know, you need to, That's Nathan Honey. The rule for building wealth is those that can delay pleasure. The ability to delay pleasure is an emotional sign of maturity. And so this very email screams that you're 19. Indeed. Or a very immature 30 or 40 something who's trying to make that time.

Even worse, even worse, yeah. You're functioning at a 19 year old level. So yeah, this is one definition of maturity is the ability to delay pleasure. Every time I read the book, The Tortoise and the Hare, the hare never wins and you just described the game of the hair real investors invest steadily over a long period of time and they are the ones that systemically build wealth a high

probability of becoming a multi-millionaire by investing steadily over time. Not looking for a magic bullet, not trying to find an algorithm or a Nigerian prince. And certainly not pledging your emergency fund to be an investment. Because then you become the emergency. So, wow. You know what happened there, Jade?

I just realized it. Kelly, you did this, didn't you? This is our, our team set us up. Why do you think they did that? Because they knew that I would go off on this. I mean, it's- Like this is so dumb. They knew I would lose my stuff on it.

So, yeah, that's exactly. This is- I feel like you kept your composure pretty good. I hope Nathan's actually real and they didn't just make this up. No, they don't make them up. I'm kidding. No, they don't make them up. But they do go through and try to find something to get Dave riled up. I know they do that. I mean, this is a Dave riled up meeting. It's our production meeting. This is TikTok though. This is what everybody's telling you to do, you know, going to the

moon. Well, let me help you. There's not much life lessons on TikTok you ought to follow. Jeff's in Charleston, West Virginia. Hey, Jeff, what's up? Hey, how you doing? Thanks for taking my call, Dave. Sure, how can I help?

With some recent shakeups at work, I'm a little concerned that I'm putting too much money into retirement. I'm 45 and I'm putting too much money into retirement. I'm 45 and I'm putting around 20% in retirement. Do you have a house mortgage? No, I rent. I have a house fund that I hope to buy a house outright when I pull the trigger on it. We would tell people at your stage, I assume you have no other debt.

No other debt. Okay, if you have an emergency fund, we tell people about your what we call baby step four and you would be putting 15% of your income into retirement and the rest of it would be going in your house fund okay so I'm gonna beef up the house fund a little bit which could convert to an oh crap fund if I lost my job which is which is kind of why I've been paying a little closer attention to the retirement account lately. Yeah. That's what I was talking about. Now you're not going to lose the 401k.

You understand you own it. Even if they go belly up, that doesn't affect your 401k. Right. Right. So you're safe on that part, but yeah, so I'd be putting 15% away and I'd be putting the rest of it in the house fund. And in the worst case scenario, it becomes an extra large emergency fund. Okay. Okay. Um, do you think I should still go straight? Um, the 401k route or, you know, cause I've always looked at Roth IRA. Do you have a match? Does the company offer a match? Yeah,

I get a five percent match. Okay. Get it while the getting is good. Match is free money and then after you can invest up until the match and then if you want to reach over and do a Roth IRA you could do that and max that out and then if you still have money left then you could come back to the the the 401k. But the total of all of that is no more than 15% of your income in a year. Okay. Okay. And if you have it both ways and your 401k has a match and it's Roth, I would just stay there and max that out.

Yeah. Agreed. Okay. Yeah, because I was just kind of wondering because it feels like that's going to grow to such a significant retirement 401k that I can't touch for another 15 years, but. You'll be okay. You know, my house, you, okay? Yeah, you look over there and see a million dollars in there.

It won't piss you off. You'll be okay. It will be very happy. Okay. That's how millionaires are born right there. You just heard it. You heard the birth. Did you hear the egg crack?

That was the beginning of a millionaire right then. Renee is in New Orleans. Hi Renee. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I have a question about Parent Plus Loan. My dad took it out for me and my two older sisters. And, um, I've since graduated. This was 16 years ago that I graduated. Um, but anyway, they're kind of, my parents are getting to retirement now. And, um, it's basically like there, my dad always finds a way to throw in there that like he's paid on these parent plus loans, like our whole lives and just like, um, saying that it's the reason that he's broke and that he doesn't

have money for life insurance and he's, you know, feeling the pinch of like retirement and I Basically don't know what to do because I don't really know how much he owes it's all like he just likes to throw it in there and kind of like He's upset about it. But my mom won't let us pay them Because basically all three my sisters if we can't all pay she doesn't want any of us to pay them because basically all three of my sisters if we can't all pay she doesn't want any of us to pay them back. What was the original idea? Was the idea that we're taking out these Parent PLUS loans so you all can go to school and

this is our gift to you? Or was it said from the beginning we're taking these out in our names but you guys are paying them? Was there an agreement? Do you remember? So it's been a long time and I don't really remember what the agreement was for me. Um, but I know for my oldest sister, I just recently talked to her about it. My oldest sister who's eight years older than me. She said that when she, when they first did it for her, it was kind of like, we'll pay for the parent plus loan while you're in school,

but then after that, we want you to pick up the payment. So did she pick up the payment? She did for like maybe a year. And then when she got married and she had a baby, like my parents kind of just like relieved her of that responsibility. So there's, it's a gray area is what you're saying. It's a little different for everybody.

Right. And then my other sister did the same thing. She paid for a little bit after she graduated. But then since my older sister wasn't paying, my parents were like, well, it's not fair for us to make you pay. And so she stopped paying. But like, by the time it got to me, none of them were paying. So they never made me pay

Do you know and if you asked how much they are dad how much how much? Are they would he tell you? The thing is he consolidated them and stretched them out over this long period of time Which is why like it's also hard to pay because they're all you have a time or amount. I Think it's in the 40,000 range for all of them. And so do you and your sisters have 15,000? We do not. Then the discussions are irrelevant, honey.

You don't have the money. Your dad signed up for this. And he regrets it and he's being. And he feels bad. And he's not much of a I mean I gotta tell you I'm kind of I'm pretty disappointed in him for guilt-tripping his own kids after it was a decision he made be a man of honor eat your broccoli buddy you signed up for this trip don't dump it on your kids every time they

come over for Thanksgiving and then or don't be shocked they quit coming over for Thanksgiving. They're going to get tired of you. It has like pushed us away. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody likes being on a travel. Nobody likes hanging out with a travel agent for guilt trips. Now, there is a side of this and I'm in no way putting this on you, but I'm putting myself in your position. If my dad had done this and I was hearing about it, me being who I am today or even back then, I might be interested in figuring out, okay, how much did you take out? It was my education. What is it that I'd want him to speak for real to me?

Well, if it's 40 today, I would just take it by three, which is 15 grand roughly. Yeah. 12 grand, you know, and just write a check and hand that to him and go. Exactly, I'm clear, I'm done. I'm done, you talk to the other two. And that's, I mean, I'm not saying you have to do that.

What do you make? You're in your 30s, what do you make? I make 50,000 a year, or 50 to 60. Are you married? I have two jobs. Yes. What's your husband's name? He's about the same. So you guys make $125,000 a year? Yes. You have other debt? Our house and we're expecting a third baby on the way. And you don't have the dime, you don't have any money? I have, I do have a car note right now. Oh, that's dead. But other than that, like, yeah, I owe 26 on that, but- Good Lord.

Besides the car note and the, the car note and the house, we're good. And we do have a savings, but- How much is in your savings? Like three thousand. Okay. So you're not good. You're broke. You're your dad looking up for the same thing to happen in a few years. Okay, so you guys need to get your else crap together, get this car paid off or

get it sold, get you an emergency fund built and then you can have a discussion about whether you want to reach over and help your parents. But today you don't have a legal or a moral obligation in what you've told us. There's no ethical obligation here. It would be a gift, which is what Jade is describing she would do. If you get yourself in a good strong financial position and you want to give someone a gift If you get yourself in a good strong financial position and you want to give someone a gift That's related to this discussion. That's fine But this is a charitable gift you could write charity on the four line of the check if you wanted to Because you do not owe this money You really don't and the only reason I was saying it is if you thought there was some way because I'm thinking this my dad

This is eroding our relationship if there's some way that I feasibly can kind of take this into my own hands, that's something I would do, but you don't have to. And it's not to say that it would even fix it. And you don't until you don't have a car payment and you have an emergency fund. That's right. And have a baby, you know.

You got three things going on here that need money long before your dad gets any. So, I just want you, I want to set you free from his guilt trips. He's not very honorable to do that. It's sad that an old man does that to his kids, his three daughters, and they do it all time though. And he's playing victim. He's playing victim for a trip he signed up for. But the learning from this... It's been this way since he took it out.

It's been this way since he... It's in all other parts of his life too. You're not the only place that he blames someone else for his own stupidity. But the learning that you can take from this today is... Don't be him. Don't be him. So you today have a situation that you need tending to,

which is your own finances, so that when your baby gets old enough to go to college, you're not taking out, you know, parent plus loans. And so that when you're that age, you can look up and feel good about how you've managed your finances instead of pulling load off and blaming off on everybody else.

So this is your learning from this. So number one, if you never pay it back, that's fine. Number two, definitely don't pay it back until you don't have a car payment deliver this baby successfully and have more than three thousand dollars in an emergency fund. Okay you need a three to six month emergency fund you need zero debt except your house and then if you want to save up twelve grand additionally you and your husband agree on that you do that in your budget and you want to throw it at them. That's a gift, that's fine.

If you never pay him, that's perfectly okay with me. I'm really good with that. Me too. The only reason I would have you pay him is for you, not for him. He is not deserving. I'm pretty disgusted with him right now. So, I mean, I can't imagine,

I'm 64, looking at my grown kids in their 30s and go and I mean you owe me. What a wuss. Unbelievable. My kids would look at me and go who are you? You know and because it just wouldn't happen. I don't know whether it's hillbilly honor or what it is. I just have too much pride. Yeah that's what I'm wondering. Dump it on your kids. It's a lack of honor. It's just a problem. So I just, gee, we got a manhood crisis in America. Open phones at triple 8, 825-5 two two five you jump in there's one way to solve all that by the way no student loans yeah how about that how

about looking at these three girls when they're 17 and go get a job and go to community college go to a state school hello you can't go over there you can't afford it we don't have the money and I'm not going in debt you're up a creek kiddo you got to figure it out that I like that answer. I do too. Parents are not required to pay for college and they're certainly not required to go into debt for it, but you are required to have a conversation early on about what the expectations are and the expectation is there's no debt. Yeah, it's a go-to school you can afford. It will help you when we can and that you can work while you're in school. By the way, it's not

child abuse. And you can get some scholarships and you can go to a state school because nobody really cares where you went to school all they care is you actually learned something that's all they care you never hired a doctor based on where he went to school if you're tackling debt or building wealth or both, you can often forget about one of the more important steps to reaching those goals and that's defense while you're playing offense. That's called insurance.

Having the right coverage, whether it's too little or too much, can impact how long it takes to get out of debt and build wealth. Skimping on insurance might seem like saving, but when life happens then it's easy to fall back into debt without the right safety net. The right insurance acts as a shield. The wrong insurance acts as a drain on the checkbook. So go to ramsysolutions.com slash checkup and take the free coverage checkup or click the link in the description on YouTube or on podcast and take the free coverage checkup. Jacob is with us in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi Jacob, how are you?

Now, to that, thanks for your time today, Dave. Appreciate it. Absolutely. What's up? My question for you is, I've been taking side gigs from my W-2 employer and I'm transparent about it, but there is some tension between me taking those side gigs. By the way, you're taking side gigs what now? I'm taking side gigs in addition to my W-2 job. Okay, why would that create tension? Is it the same type of work?

Yes, same type of work for context. I work in the events industry and it's for my old employer too. So that might be point of contention. So your girlfriend ain't cool with you hanging out with the ex. That's true. Kind of, yeah. You can understand that. Are you taking money out of your employer's pocket?

No, I'm currently salaried and every time I go out, No, I mean, are you... the business that you're doing with them, is it harming your employer? No, I'd argue it helps actually because we could be a supplier for them. Okay, so in other words, it's not competing, you're not assisting the competition? Correct, that is not the case. Okay's not competing you're not assisting the competition correct that's not the case okay and you're not so you're not taking clients away from your the the guy you're working for is not taking clients away or nor are you taking clients away from your current employer

it's not the same gave her current employer could have gotten okay so it are you not getting work done when you're at your main employer because you're screwing off with the other stuff that is his fear fear. That's not the case right now. He thinks that might come to be that way. Okay. But I see it as a revenue generating opportunity for our company as long as as well as myself. Well that's yeah it's mainly you that we're concerned about. Listen you got to give a hundred and ten percent while you're on the job to relieve that concern. Okay. So here's the thing. The reason I'm asking all these questions, and Jade, we talk about this all the time, business ethics is fairly easy. You don't need a whole semester course in

college on business ethics. Let me help you with business ethics. Treat other people like you'd want to be treated. Do one to others as you'd have them do one to you. So reverse positions. You have an employee working for you that is working for his ex-employer on the side. It adds revenue maybe, but it helps the employee. He's got a good side gig, but you're a little bit worried that he's taking his eye off the ball while he's at work. That's you, you just switch places with your boss. Okay? Yep. And so you

know you solve all the problems then. That's and so if you're not being unethical is the answer to your question and no you're not being unethical, is the answer to your question. And no, you're not wrong morally. And the other reason that tells me that is you've been open with your employer. Yeah, yeah, you didn't try to hide it. You know, here's what I would say, okay?

If you were the employer, you would probably, if you, switch places with your boss, you with me, Jacob? Yep. You would love it if this young man that's a go-getter walked into your office and said, hey, I hear you loud and clear that you're worried about me taking my eye off the ball over here. I'm going to pledge to you that I put in an extra level of effort to prove against that concern. If you see me doing anything different, would you please come to me immediately because I want to honor your concern absolutely okay if you

heard that and you were the boss you would go I like this kid got it gotcha okay in a world does it ever make sense to roll that into the company itself and build my time through them? No. What about taking advantage of that? Because it's not a product line that your employer has. Now you just created competition. Hmm, okay. No, it's just you just change the product mix of your current employer. He does not offer this service now. Mm-hmm. And now you're rolling in and now he offers the service. So you've complicated it. No, you just, you got a side gig, take the side gig. You know, and sometimes these guys, some guys, a small business owner, so personally insecure that they're going to just lose their crap in spite of you being

honorable. And that's a possibility with your current boss right? I don't think so but maybe. Okay but I mean it's always a possibility I mean but but I've had a lot of different things where we've had team members as long as they're not taking money out of the mouths of my children over here I you know I'm fine with a side gig. I'm perfectly fine with that, with most positions. Now I'm not fine with Jade doing a side gig, because she's got one gig, it's this thing. That's a little different. If you see me doing Amazon Flex, it's a problem.

Yeah, the demands on a Ramsey personality as a brand would be different. She'd be lending her brand to someone else, and that would not be okay because it's our brand and we've done it together, she and I and our team. And so that would not be cool. But if one of our guys who does video work wants to do some video work for somebody, as long as they're not in our space, that's their business, they can go do that.

I mean, it's not a problem. So just business ethics really take a hot second and really reconstruct the other side and step into their body, do a body snatcher thing and go, okay, I'm looking at Jacob through the eyes now of a different person, not trying to defend my position. And if you can walk a mile in their shoes and it still feels cool, you're probably okay. Yeah, I agree. And ask the question, have I done anything so far that's made you feel

like I'm not giving 100%? If I do, please let me know immediately. Yeah, 100%. And I'm pledging to you to honor this relationship by pouring on some extra gas. You know, I think a lot of employers don't like that though. They don't like somebody. Well, because they get bifurcated. They get bifurcated. They cannot keep from doing their side job while at work, which is stealing. That is because you're, yeah. I'm paying you to work and you're not working.

Instead you're working on the other stuff that makes you money. Yeah, you can't do that. That's stealing. Okay, so that's unethical. Yeah, that's right. That's why a lot of people don't do it, because sometimes the person doing the side gig doesn't have the discipline

to keep them clearly separated. Remember during COVID when people were just applying for two full-time jobs, cause it was work from home. Remember when they still do that? I need to stop doing that. Yeah. I talked to a developer the other day. He was telling me he has a lot of friends in the software engineering business.

They have three full-time jobs. And they work from home, and they get paid three salaries. And that's just straight up theft, boys and girls. Man, there's no way. There's no way you can do that. Yeah, you can't work three eight-hour shifts. That's, there's sleep involved here,

and food, and showering, and so forth, hypothetically. And so, yeah, that's just. You would think there'd be an AI program for that, that when you're hired, you can see if somebody's already working another job. There's a business idea for someone, you're welcome. I solved it. You know how I solved it?

How'd you solve it? We work from work. Oh, there you go. That solved it. That'll solve it. If you're here, we figure you're working. If you're not here, we figure you're not working. And that's kinda how it works.

That works. It's got this big, beautiful building. It's got a wonderful cafeteria and a lot of really smart people you can hang out with. Yeah, we work from work. And then we actually work. Whoa! It helps you keep your life separated.

Leadership insights right here here I'm just saying. Deep thoughts from Dave. A new segment on the Ramsey show. It's like a bad Saturday Night Live skit. Oh my goodness gracious. Yeah that's a good question Jacob and you know what I love about your question is that you have the integrity to be concerned about it. That's good yes. And that is that you have the integrity to be concerned about it. That's good, yes. And that's a good sign. You're going to do well, sir. You're gonna do well, young man.

Proud of you. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Wasch all number one bestselling author Ramsey personality is my co-host today the phone number is 888-825-5225 Janice is in St. Louis.

Hi Janice how are you? Hi I'm fine. Good, what's up? I had a question about, I have been offered, I have a credit card debt of 35,000 and I have been seeing offers to take a loan out to pay this with less interest and I'm on step number two, but I'm not sure. It just seems like it's such a long process. I'm tempted to look into those. How many credit cards make up the 35,000 or is it just one?

No, it's probably eight. Seven, okay. I like that. And what's your household income? Um, let's see the net for the month. I don't care. It's 4,400. Okay. And it's just you? No, it's I'm married. Okay. And the tow, the two of you total is 4,400 a month to come on it coming in. Yes. So we're retired. Oh, how old are you? I'm

70. Okay. And because of the savings we had, an air conditioning problem, so I'm down to a thousand dollars in my savings. And I'm... Okay, how much do you have in retirement? 60,000. What are you all living on? I'm social security and I do a little part-time job. And I was doing the part-time. How's both of your health? Mine's good except I'm starting to feel a little

smooth slower and be a little tired. What about your husband? He has some health issues but he's still good. What did y'all do before you retired? He He worked for an airline and I had some associate's degrees to do some health things just on my own. Okay, well so here's the problem, okay? The debt consolidation business is based on a premise that when you actually run the math out doesn't really help much, okay? So if I run the actual interest rate in dollars, the actual interest in dollars that you are paying on 35,000 and I cut that by 10% which would be dramatic.

You're not going to be able to do that, okay? But let's just be crazy. Let's say you could save 10% on the interest across these cards by refinancing into one debt consolidation loan. That is equal to $3,500. $3,500 does not solve a $35,000 problem while you're alive. Right. Okay. So we have a bigger problem than the interest rate. You see what I'm saying? Yes. The interest that you're paying is not what's killing you, it's that you're not able to pay

Big money on it in your current structure in your current situation So if you could pay $3,000 a month on this the whole thing goes away in one year Right, right 36,000 divided by 3 is 12, right? So there we go. And so But you don't have that room in a social security based budget obviously and you don't have any money laying around to throw at this thing so what I would propose is some discomfort that you're probably not gonna like but it's probably the best solution for y'all and

that's between the two of you let's start doing something that equals to at least fifteen hundred to two thousand dollars a month some kind of side hustles while in retirement and add fifteen hundred to two thousand dollars a month if you do that we're talking about less than two years you'll be done and that's where the benefit of this being eight separate cards comes into play. Exactly, explain that. Yeah, so what you're doing is the debt snowball method,

and that's basically you're gonna take these, you're gonna list them smallest to largest. So whatever the smallest credit card is, that's the one you guys attack first, and you're gonna feel so good when you pay that off that it's going to. How small is your smallest one let's see my smallest one is probably six that oh five thousand okay so two two and a half months that one's gone mm-hmm then you

take all that money and now you've got an additional money because you had the minimum payment on that one to add to it and now you throw it to the next smallest one. So over time the payment that you're able to throw at these becomes larger and larger and larger. That's why it's called a snowball. And not to mention, yeah, you're feeling the psychological effects every time you pay one off and that's motivating. So that's how this works.

And that's actually going to get you out. Saving on the interest rate, you can't save enough on the interest rate to make this go away. So I've obtained the largest interest rate one. Yeah and that's mathematically correct but what we're teaching you is doing something that gives you a celebration moment quick. You get the you know you get to feel like we're doing something. Because you fell into this because you felt stuck. Right. And this unsticks you emotionally and relationally.

So is it possible that with your associate's degrees and that he picks up a little side something and you pick up a little side something and you maybe bring in a thousand bucks a piece a month? Right now I'm you maybe bring in a thousand bucks a piece a month? Right now I'm able to bring in a thousand, yeah. Good. So I don't know that he would be able to, that the health issue is his mobility, so I'm not sure that he would, but yeah I've seen that. What does he do with his day?

He does a lot around the house and he packs my lunch and he, you know, cleans the house and vacuums and cuts the grass. And that's good mobility. He cuts the grass. I know because he holds on to the lawnmower he can do that. Hmm. I think he can do it and it might prove to be even better for his health. I'm not saying he's cutting grass, but there's I would imagine That if he's playing on the computer at all, he probably could play on the computer and get paid for it.

Yeah, he doesn't really he does play the games on his phone. Yeah so I'm just saying yeah y'all work on this but that's the answer to your problem is to get it just to make it go away completely not sweep it under the rug with a lower interest rate and the problem with that con-solidation is it sweeps it under the rug with a lower interest rate. And the problem with that con solidation is it sweeps it under the rug with a lower interest rate. It makes you feel like you did something, but it's still under there. And now it's just a big, one big hairy payment.

Just a big lump under the rug. Yeah, no, I love the idea of knocking out the little one, working a little extra, tightening the budget, looking around what have we got we could sell. Does he tinker in the garage and can fix up something, buy it on eBay, fix it up and resell it? Or buy it at a garage sale, fix it up and resell it on eBay? Maybe that's the game he plays on his phone. Yeah. My favorite guy at Publix at the grocery store, he's about 70 years old. Every time I go in, he greets us and he does a magic trick for my daughter. Just saying. Here we go.

Here we go. I like it. Here's a magic trick. Get out of debt. This is The Ramsey Show. Guys, if you want to help us out, we would appreciate it. Subscribe to the show by clicking the subscribe button, the follow button. Leave a nice five-star review,

share the show with a friend, tell people we're here, click the link, the share button, the subscribe button, the follow button, all that stuff. It really helps us and you are our best marketing program when you spread the word. Thank you for that we appreciate it a bunch. Buying or selling your home is a and you are our best marketing program when you spread the word. Thank you for that, we appreciate it a bunch. Buying or selling your home is a big deal and between the clickbait headlines and confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually going on out there. We're here to make the latest trends easy to understand.

Median house prices went up slightly last month to about $430,000. More homes are on the market, nearly a million in inventory right now, the highest since 2019. A lot of houses for sale, but in many areas it's still not enough to meet the buyer demand because buyer demand is still outpacing inventory, which means prices are not going down. Average 15-year fixed rate rose a little last month it's now 5.9 still not 6 though if you're financially ready this 5.9 is a good rate to buy out and it's a good time to buy if you're not financially ready don't go buy a house

if you want to learn more about housing market trends get some free tools to help you to buy or sell with confidence go to ramsysolutions.com slash market or click the link in the show notes. Michael is with us in Tampa. Hey Michael, how are you? Better than I was the other day. Me too, sir. How can I help?

My question is, I was looking, interested in buying a business that's been around for 70 years. I've done it for 10 years. I currently don't do it, but I was thinking about selling my house to buy the business and renting. You're single? No, married. Okay. How much is the business? 250,000. What did it net profit last year taxable income? 260. What is it? It's a pest control business. Seems kind of cheap. It is cheap. So he wanted his son to take over but his son fell in love and moved out of state so I you know he's he's I've known him he's not really family but you know

I know him and so he you're saying the net profit on the business in his pocket that he paid taxes on. No. That's what I asked. What was the net profit? The net profit is $140. Oh, okay. Still a little cheap. Yeah, it's still not a bad deal.

And does he work in the business? He works maybe once a month. I mean he goes and gets the pesticides and stuff like that, but the employees do all the work and he probably works one day a month. Who runs it? His employer. He is a manager, an employee? Yes. Okay, he's the employer, right?

Yes. Okay. Whew. Whew. What's your wife say? Yeah, what do you, what's your wife say about this? My wife wants to do it tomorrow, but I just don't want to get in there. That's my biggest thing. Yeah, well, I don't disagree with that. Okay, the, what's your house worth? I would say anywhere from $2 to $2.50. All the neighboring houses are well over $4, so I don't really know.

You know, you bought the bottom of the house, so I don't really know exactly. But I know I could get $2 to $2.50 for it. And is it paid for? Yes, it's paid for. Okay. All right. Hmm. Okay, so there's two possible options. One is we go with your idea. You sell the house, you buy the business. Cash. Yep. Okay, and if I'm

gonna go to that trouble, I'm gonna tell him I'm selling my house to buy this, so I need a better deal. I want to give you a cash check. I need a better price because I'm having to sell my house to buy it. It's the only way I can do it. I'm having to put my family in a rental. Tell him that. That'll work won't it? I could tell him that but I'm pretty sure I'm getting at least 60 or 70 thousand off of what he was gonna ask for it on the market. I didn't want to say it. I could ask. I could tell him that. Yeah I could tell him. 100% of the time you don gonna ask for it on the market. I didn't want to say it. I could ask, I could tell him that. Yeah, I could tell him that. 100% of the time you don't ask, you don't get it. Yeah, I agree with that.

That's a good business principle to learn right now. So, yeah, let's try to get a bargain. I don't think it's a bad price, but if you're gonna go to this, I want to cut it even deeper because I need you to have some operating capital when you walk in there. Now, you're getting all the trucks, you're getting all the stuff included in this price, right? Yes. That's a hundred percent turnkey. You're gonna walk in and start managing it, right? Yes. Okay. And you know how to do all that because you used to work at a place like this. I worked for him ten years ago. So you know how to run this business? I know. I'm a, I don't know how to run the business I know how to do the work

I guess it's a different thing like I know how to do it. It's completely different. So you would go out on the jobs and spray the houses but you don't know how the business part runs. Yes. Okay so how you figuring you're gonna learn that? He would said he would try to you know show me over the next six months. Okay. It's transition over. Okay. That's fair. I don't disagree with that. That all sounds pretty good. All right.

That's thing one. And then what you do is you live on virtually nothing and you pile up cash and buy your wife another house in two years for cash. Um, I wanted to keep my current job. He thinks it's possible to do my current job he thinks it's possible do my current job is that a bad idea no then you can even buy the house faster okay yeah I mean that's cool too what do you make I make about 80 okay so if you're making 140 over there in 80 that's to 220 and you eat out of that and then we throw a

whole bunch in the bank and we buy a house in two years, okay? Mm-hmm So that's way one way two is you pay him a hundred percent of profits for two years Hmm You become the owner and a hundred percent of profits go to him for two years until we get to his number Okay owner and a hundred percent of profits go to him for two years until we get to his number. Okay. I feel like you'll end up getting a better deal though. You'll get a better deal if you sell your house.

Yeah. But if you just give him, say I'll run it, I'll work with you, you come in and help me learn the ropes and a hundred percent of the profits are yours for two years I'll do 90% of the work and you do 10% showing me how to do it and That's gonna equal 280,000 bucks Okay, the only thing that we said that you keep your house The only thing we said that feels off is you're gonna do both jobs at the same time You're gonna do your current full-time job and take on this new business that

does fuel. He's not working there full-time. Are you working there half a day a week or a day a month? Right? Yeah. Yeah. But I mean he could always quit and I could be forced to, you know, when the business and be an employee again, if I took over the business and let the other guy said,

I don't want to work for you anymore than I would have to quit my current job. That's always potential could happen. Got you. Got you. Got you. Okay. But I'm just saying I'd give him a hundred percent of profits till they get to, till it gets to a two 80 or two 60 or whatever his price is. Okay. I like that plan better than selling your house. Yeah, you do.

Yeah. Okay. Because you have a paid for house. I like you being in a paid for house a lot at your age. You did a good job getting that. I did too. I did pay a lot anyway. Yeah. And that's a nice stable home base to do this endeavor from. And by the way, if profits go down, he gets 100% of profits. He didn't get 140. He gets 100% of profits. If profits are 100, he gets those until we get him to 260. It might take longer than two years if profits went down.

If profits go up, you could be done sooner than two years. Yeah, so now he also has more incentive when you said he was going to teach you the business, he has more incentive to really make sure you get it. If we could get this to 200, he'd get his money in no time, right? Yeah. You think there's some up you think there's some upside in this thing? I think it's a lot of upside. That's the only reason I ever considered it. Yeah yeah so I think that gets him out I think that gets him paid off quicker.

I mean I'll bring the offer to him and see if he'll take it. Yeah and say if not I got to sell my house and I'm gonna have to have a better deal. Mm-hmm. Because my wife ain't real happy with me selling the house. Because she may be wanting you to buy the business, but she ain't happy with you selling the house. All right, so let's run this out. At what point would you not do the secondary option, which is him paying out the profits? So let's say he says, well- That's my primary option.

Well, let's say he says, well, for cash, yeah, I'll sell it to you for the 250, because it's cash today. Or I'll sell it to you for $240 because it's cash today. But if we do this thing where we're running out the profits, that could take me several years so I'm getting these small chunks. Now I'm going to charge you $300 because that's what I would have put it out there as. At what point would you cut it off and say, nah, I don't want to pay more over the long haul. I think the guy's going to take one 80 and he's going to sell his house. You think he'll do it for one 80. Wow. If you present the way I told him to present it. Yeah. Yeah.

Well that's a lot cheaper than two 50. Just what I think we'll see. This is The Ramsey Show. Matthew is with us in Atlanta. Hey Matthew, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I'll try to summarize. It's been a really crazy year I'm one once I want to thank you for your solution. I we got that freed two years ago after getting married and that's been good but uh Last year we moved back to the US And we've kind of burned through our savings. We didn't have a job for maybe 11 months. So I'm glad that we had an emergency fund. Um, but we, we still have some savings. Um, and we were able to build it up a little bit once we got a job, but I, I'm

wondering, is it okay for me to, you know, treat my wife and make her feel special for, you know, for special occasions? We, um, we don't do a lot of crazy stuff. Um, we don't have a lot of savings, but I also want to know your advice on that. If that makes sense. I know on one hand we should be continue saving, saving, saving, but when should I treat my wife to a nicer day? We teach folks to stay intense and stay focused until they're out of debt, not counting the home, baby step two, and have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Do you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses?

I think we spend about $2,000 a month. Yeah, $2,000 a month and we have about, yeah, yeah, we have like four months saved, four months of emergency savings. Then you would be at what we call baby step four, you would start saving 15% of your income into retirement and you would start saving towards the house if you don't have one or and kids college and paying down the house and in the midst of that, yeah, you start doing some things. You move in baby steps one through three out of debt, accept the house in in the midst of that, yeah, you start doing some things. You move in baby steps one through three out of

debt, except the house and emergency. No, we don't treat our wife. Our wife is a grown woman and she wants to have the family to win and we need an emergency fund and we need to be out of debt. So no, we're not going out to eat. No, we're not going on vacation, but when you have your emergency fund in place and you moved

to baby step four, five and six, we move from intense to intentional. And yeah, then you buy a couch, you go on vacation, you upgrade the car, you go out to eat, and you treat your wife. And all of those things are done with cash within your budget that the two of you agree to. Okay.

What was it you were trying to do? Well, I'm trying to surprise her for anniversary, um, because we usually do really small stuff. We haven't, like I said, we lived outside the country for years and we love traveling and, and I wanted to, like, I want to get us a trip outside the country just for a few days. And I know she would really like that. Can you pay cash for that?

Can you pay cash for that and not put other things in jeopardy? Okay, yeah, we, yeah, okay. And not touch your emergency fund. Yeah, we won't touch that. Okay, if you can do that, then yeah, that's fine. Okay. That fits with what we teach, yeah, Because this rhythm of four, five and six, you're going to be doing that for decades. Okay.

That's the new way of life. Yeah, that makes sense. I just, I wasn't sure because we're not setting our careers yet. We still have little jobs that we're still able to save because we spend very little. And I was just wanting to go, should I wait till I have my you know my career. Okay so what is your household income today? About 3,200. Okay so you're making four thousand forty thousand bucks a year and what are we talking about spending on this vacation? Thirteen hundred fourteen hundred. That's not unreasonable, that's doable. You don't think so? Okay yeah well we're very frugal like we try to

avoid eating stuff, eat out and you know we're really trying to be very touchy so that's why when I thought that number was more. How are you getting out of the country and back for $1300? That's another question. Yeah I know I saw a good deal in Cancun and I was like wow that's you know hotel and flight or 1300 and a rental So I was like, okay, that's another reason. It was just a good deal I thought so why not why let it up is it all inclusive spending money. Yeah, it's all inclusive It ain't much Okay

I'm not sure I'm not sure how big a treat this is gonna be buddy. Beware Ouch Be careful there my friend, but anyway I'm not sure how big a treat this is gonna be, buddy. Yeah, buyer beware. Yeah, ouch. That's true. Yeah, so be careful there, my friend. But anyway, yes, you have some disposable money at this stage, and you just need to be wise with it as a ratio to your income, and you're paying cash, and we're not being irresponsible with the other stuff,

and going back in debt, we're not being irresponsible with the other stuff and going back in dead we're not we're not calling this an emergency because my little wife needs to go out on a trip to Cancun never has a Cancun trip ever been an emergency not once you can yeah I'm gonna leave it at that possibly possibly leaving can't I was gonna say the emergency happens when you're in cancun. Drink the water. There's some other stuff. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot, lot, lot of possibilities there, but yeah, that that's it. So yeah, live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else.

Move from intensity to intentionality when you clear the debt and the baby step three emergency fund. Amanda's in Stanford, Connecticut. Hi, Amanda, how are you? Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, you say that. I am kind of in a transition period of my life. I am a mom and I have two boys. One is going to be a senior in college, one's going to be a freshman in college. My alimony and child support ended this month and I'm in the process of selling my home

or I'd like to do that and sell it by October 1st, but I'm wondering if that's the right decision. Why are you selling it? Because my income, so get paid twice a month one of my paychecks is equal to my mortgage payment and that's you know the paycheck after taxes. Yeah that doesn't work and you drop the child support in the alimony so it leaves you in jeopardy I agree. Yes okay.

You've got the home left over from as a marital asset and it represents another life That's no longer here when you sell the house. What will you earn? What will come of it? Well, I still have a mortgage but based on you know, the market it's still pretty strong and Connecticut So, you know, I'm I could make upwards of like 400,000 you know after everything so I wanted to basically find another house that I could make upwards of like 400,000, you know, after everything. So I wanted to basically find another house that I could almost pay cash for. I like it. I like it. I like it a lot. Are you going to stay in that area? I'm going to try. The market is very tough here and there are very few houses in my price range and usually you have to bid above asking price. Um, the other alternative would be to move south where my job is located

because I work remotely, but I'm concerned that my children will come with me and I don't want to leave them behind. And I also have a 93 year old mother and assisted living in this area. So I feel like emotionally like... The good news is you can move out of ways because you work remote and get out enough and let the pricing go down. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're right. You're gonna go through a culture shock of not living in the same neighborhood that you've been in for I'm guessing 20 years. Yeah, just about.

Yeah. It just sounded like a 20-year-old story. Okay. I'm sorry. Your heart's been broken. You've had a hard couple years, hadn't you? I would say, yeah, more like eight to ten. Yeah. The last few have been tough. I'm just trying to do the right thing for everybody. Yeah. It's not everybody. It's you. You need to do the right thing for you. You've taken care of everybody else long enough and this is the right thing for you. Letting a house

drown you while you're wounded and not swimming well is not a good idea. I'm with you. I love you selling this house. I think you're very wise. Okay. That's so good to hear. Thank you. Thank you, darling. Sorry you're going through this harsh, hard stuff. Yeah, it is hard, but she was, I mean, she's, she's wise. Yeah. And she's, uh, foresee that. Yeah. She, she didn't let the emotions override the decision. And there's a lot of emotions there. So it's real.

override the decision. And there's a lot of emotions there. So it's real. I've seen that, I don't know, thousands of times that the lady keeps the house in the divorce, but the house was based on the dual income. Very difficult to do and does it in the name of keeping the kids in the school district and that kind of stuff, but really straps herself to where she can't breathe. I've seen that a lot. Our scripture of the day, 1st Timothy 1, 5, but the goal of our instruction is love from

a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. John Kennedy, Louisiana Senator said, always follow your heart but take your brain with you. You need that. You need that. Good plan. Good plan. Erin is with us in Austin, Texas. Hi Erin, how are you? I'm doing well on your self. Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so I need some help. So I am 36 and I have been unable to maintain a budget since I moved out of my parents house 18 years ago and as a result it's I'm sure you can imagine it's created all kinds of financial issues. I've got enough debt to – that on my income it's a nightmare.

And so I had originally planned to ask you how to get started, but I took the paycheck to paycheck webinar yesterday. And so that kind of gave me an idea how to start. But the problem is, is my income is variable. So I don't have a set salary. I'm an hourly employee, but I'm a single mom of two kids that have a lot of doctor's appointments and things like that. So I do end up missing a lot of work. So it's kind of hard to, I can have almost a $400 range within a month or two.

Are your children ill? So they both have ADHD that needs to be managed by a psychiatrist. So they have that doctor's appointment every month. Plus we went through a family situation about two years ago. Dad left and my daughter was not handling this very well. And so they're in therapy every week as well. That's just life. Okay. What do you make?

So I have not had a raise in the last three years, so my typical range is somewhere between 31 to 34. And how old are the kids by the way? My daughter is 11 and my son is about to be eight. So if I were you, I would base your budget on your lowest possible income every month. I'm always starting there because that's the point of, you know, that's the oh crap, right? If I make this, it's oh crap. So if I can budget the oh crap amount, then I'm okay. So that's thing one is we're going to budget at the 3,100 or the $3,000 point. I'm assuming that you're not having any retirement or anything like that taken out of your check

No, I was working another job and I do have a rock but it has like eight dollars in it right now Okay, and I was taking them out for an emergency Okay, and I'm assuming that when when tax refund comes you don't get much or are you getting a big one? This past year I got nine Thousand back. Okay. That's a lot. It was, but I had a car that I had, I was in the process of paying off. And so I used almost the entire return to pay it off.

That way I didn't have to worry about that about. I'm glad that you used it for a good cause, but I would be curious. I I'd want that money back into your monthly budget, right? Because that's $700, you know, that's gonna be back in your pocket every month. So I would be looking at changing my W-4 on that sooner than later. Okay, so.

Let's stop for a second. Let me revisit that part of it for a second. When you go to have your W-2 changed, have them hold out the very minimum they can have hold out. Cause I think at 32,000 as a single mom with two kids, you probably are paying no income tax and are actually getting what's called the unearned income tax credit back. So you're getting money back that wasn't even yours. Got it. Yep. And so,

but some of that 9,000 was money you put in that was too much. So you don't need to have hardly anything withheld from your check Like close to zero, so then I just need to so then I should just go talk to HR HR Yeah, lady. Yeah, and say look I'm a single mom making 32,000. I don't pay any taxes So I need to get my w2 down to the very minimum Okay, because you're actually still gonna get a quote-2 down to the very minimum. Okay. Because you're actually still gonna get a quote unquote refund, although it is not a refund, it's an unearned income tax credit.

So in the child tax and all of that. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So starting there, it's still some money back in your pocket. That's good. Now, let's now that we're doing that now, when you go to do the every dollar budget, you're starting with the most important items first, right?

We'd call it four walls. So yeah, you want to make sure that you're taking care of your housing or your rent or you a renter? No, we actually live with my grandmother. She's been a God sent a little. Do you pay her rent? No, our agreement is that I pay like the utilities. So you know, the water, electric, gas, the internet,

that kind of, and then I pay my phone. My daughter has a phone, a cheaper one. My son does not, but he will next year. Well, if he can afford it, what will you? Wait a minute, why does an 11 year old need a phone? You can't afford that right now. Well, okay, so the reason that I have the phone for my daughter is because of the family situation.

She was made, she was put in a very uncomfortable situation with her father on a visit one time, and they would not let her call me and she was freaking out. She actually... Does she still visit with him? We're in the middle of all of that court stuff right now. Yeah. She's not seeing him. If she's not going over there, she doesn't need a phone. And at the very least, get her one of those watches. It's a one-time fee. She can text you whenever she needs you,

but she doesn't need a phone. You are broke. Yeah. You don't buy 11-year-old a freaking phone when you're broke. Her phone plan, it's a track phone, so I pay $15 a month on that. I know, you're broke.

Okay. You make $30,000 on that. I know, you're broke. Okay. You make $30,000 a year, you have two children, you're at the poverty level. Pretty much, yeah. Yeah. That $15 would go better towards groceries is what we're saying, because it really is to that point. So you're doing utilities, you're doing groceries, you're making sure there's gas in the car

and that the vehicles are running, right? That's thing one. And then after that, you're making sure whatever insurances the car and that the vehicles are running, right? That's thing one. And then after that, you're making sure whatever insurances you need are covered, all of that, right? So that's how we're going through this. And you're just lining up your budget by priority, right? Those are the first things. I always like to include giving in that because it's just one of those things you just add in there. Then you can start to add, okay, what are the other

things if it might if my salary goes up, that up to 3,400, what are the things that I can now include? And so that's how you do this by priority. So at least you know, the good thing for you is you're living with grandma and you know you've got a place to stay. So that's good, but. Yeah, you said you're 36?

Yes. Okay. Here's what I want. I'm tired of living like this. Here's what I want for you because I love you. I want you to plug into a good church and I want you to get a bunch of things stable in your life that have never been stable. Because you cannot excel in your career and in your income with all the things you've described to me because there's so much freaking drama in your life. And you're not, you're going to struggle until you remove the drama from your life. This is not sustainable. You cannot, it's going to be hard for you to find something making 60,000 instead of 30,000. So I want some prosperity for you and some sustainability for you and that's going to come from stabilizing the situation where the constant crisis with the kids is not keeping you from excelling and it's also not making you a bad mom. Okay and so there's a lot of stuff going on in your life that you've

got to get cleaned up in your life before the money stuff is ever Really gonna heal Is that mean for me to say that? No, I know what you I understand what you mean because honestly I completely agree Yeah, I constantly feel like I'm chasing. Yeah, one loose end after another and you've been chasing your tail for about a decade Yeah, yeah, and it's just it's it's tiresome for you another and you know you've been chasing your tail for about a decade yeah yeah and it's just it's it's tiresome for you and you can't you you're not a dependable team member not because you lack character but because of all the

drama and so that keeps you from excelling in your income and income is not everything that's not my point, but boy, if you had another $2,000 a month, your life would be way different. Totally change. Yeah, it would definitely allow for breathing room and I wouldn't be panicking when the kids come home and need something. Exactly. And so I want you, where we're not discussing whether or not you get, you know, how we're going to find food money, I don't want you there anymore. So I really want you to plug into a good church and start to work on your quality of life, how you're

doing life with some good people that can model for you and help you, mentor you, disciple you into moving into the way you function in these things. And so you're not living from drama to drama. That's what I want for you. I hope that comes true. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way

to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.