The Ramsey Show - App - Education Choice Is the Biggest Way to Avoid Student Loans (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 17, 2018

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones as we talk about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Starting off this hour is Tremaine in Silver Spring, Maryland.

Hi, Tremaine. How are you? I'm fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's you? I'm fine. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I have a question. First, I have a goal. My goal is to come to the studio and stand in there and scream, I'm debt free. Love it. But on the way there, I have about $26,000 in debt, and I have about $40,000 in my retirement plan. I'm 33 years old and I wanted to know, should I use the money from my retirement plan to pay off my debt or should I just snowball my debt? Snowball it. Snowball it. Okay. We tell people not to use a retirement plan to pay off

debt unless it's to avoid bankruptcy or a foreclosure, and that's not what you're facing. You're just trying to get out. So what's your household income? I make about $41,000 a year. Okay. And what kind of debt is the $26,000? So I have 14 of it is from a student loan and 11 of it is from a car loan.

Good. Okay. And so I'm guessing you're going to be debt-free in two years or under. Is that what you're thinking? Yes. Okay, good. The reason I would not tell you to cash out the $40,000 is this. When you take money out of a retirement account, you are charged your tax rate plus a 10% penalty.

Okay? Okay. And so let's pretend you're in a 20% tax bracket, and you would pay that 20% plus 10% would be 30% of this in taxes and penalties. That's kind of like saying, hey, Dave, I want to borrow money at 30% interest to pay off my debt. Okay. Yeah, we wouldn off my debt. Okay. Yeah, we wouldn't do that. Right. The math is bad.

So let's suffer through this 18 to 24 months and become debt-free, and I will see you here in the studio. I look forward to it. Jay is on the phone in Philadelphia. Hi, Jay. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. I appreciate you taking my call.

I just had tuition expenses coming up in the next two years. I'm actually starting business school, and I just wanted some advice how to run around with my finances. The first thing I don't want to do is take a student loan because I just started following following users last month. And so I just want to make sure I get through college without getting a student loan and how my finances will work across it. Okay. The way you asked the question, it sounds like you're already enrolled.

Yes. I'm actually starting this fall. Okay. And which school? Temple University. It's in Philadelphia. Okay. And what school? Temple University. It's in Philadelphia. Okay. And what does that cost?

So the way I'm looking at the tuition rates, it's going to be somewhere around $70,000 or $75,000. Now, what does it cost per year, tuition? Tuition, it would be $25,000 per year. Okay. And there's a couple of overheads. There's an international program as well that pays for under $10,000 there. That pays for $10,000 of the $25,000? No, I meant the $25,000 per year and plus $10,000.

That's what I'm going to be incurring the cost. $35,000 a year? Yeah, just about. Okay. And where are you the cost. $35,000 a year? Yeah, just about. Okay. And where are you going to get $35,000 a year? So we have $30,000 in savings, and we have $20,000 on other investments. And I actually have a $25,000 car loan going on, which was kind of stupid of me.

I'm just 28. So we just wanted to see how we can run around with that debt and also the expenses coming up. Okay. Well, the problem I've got is this. You are emotionally and actually committed to a university that you possibly can't afford. And so that makes this conversation difficult. Right. Because not only do I have to talk you into doing some things to not take on student loan debt,

but the number one way to avoid student loan debt is go to a university you can afford. Right. That is less expensive, in other words, than this one. Okay. And I'm not mad at that university, but you can go to school a lot cheaper than $35,000 a freaking year to get a business degree. Like a fourth of that. Well, no, more like a third of that but i mean

ten twelve thousand dollars a year is in-state tuition for most universities right so actually my wife is currently working and um she has uh she has a take-home of around sixty thousand so we were we were thinking we can work around with something of her income as well, which would come into play. Here's what you're going to have to figure out, and you have to decide this. I can't decide this. But from my seat, I would have to tell you to ask yourself the question, if we have a $60,000 income and we have a couple of pieces of savings and we have a stupid car debt that's a problem that we need to get rid of and we want to go to school and get a degree in business

why are we paying 35 000 a year when we could do it for 12 right because you don't have the money i mean if you told me that you said hey you know dave my grandpa left me a half million dollars. I'm going to Temple, and I'm going to pay for it. Cool. I got no issue with that. No problem at all if that's what you want to do. But you've chosen a car you can't afford, and now you've chosen an education you can't afford.

Right. Very difficult to mathematically avoid debt when you've got more going out than you have coming in. So it's very hard for me to have a successful conversation with you because it's not just about the math here. I actually have to talk you out of something you've got your heart set on. And it's not to say don't get an education. Let me just tell you, there's about five things you can do to avoid student loan debt. The number one thing, by far, that avoids student loan debt.

Listen, parents. Number one thing that keeps kids out of student loan debt. Biggest thing of all, cost of school, where you go to school. And school will range between $12,000 a year tuition, maybe $11,000 depending on what state you're in, up to about $100,000 a year tuition. And so you can go $250,000 in debt, like the lady I talked to yesterday, to get an undergraduate degree in psychology. That's what she had done. $250,000 in debt, like the lady I talked to yesterday, to get an undergraduate degree in psychology. That's what she had done.

$250,000 to get a psych degree. Huh. The reason we have a student loan crisis is not the cost of education. It's choice of education. And choosing not to work while you're in school, which you're going to be doing, your wife's going to be doing. So that's not who we're talking about with you, sir. But, you know, you're going to be in debt with the choices you've laid out in front of me. Unless her income goes up, your income goes up, or there's another variable you didn't give me that has money attached to it.

And you're selling this stupid car. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Identity theft has become an epidemic. Data breaches are being reported every day. And hundreds of millions of people have had their identities stolen. Sometimes multiple times. That's crazy. Now, I've seen firsthand when people are stressed and freaked out when they become an identity theft victim.

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It really is the best value out there. Zander.com or 800-356-4282. Well, today, stores around the world are offering Black Friday prices in July. It's one of the biggest online shopping days of the year, so we are offering up to 72% off our best-selling books, audio books, and tools that'll help you get rid of your debt, save money, become an everyday millionaire. Hurry, because there's only two prime days left. You could just say, hey, Alexa, what's better than free shipping? Well, how about Black Friday prices on our top 30 products, plus free shipping?

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Hi, Melissa. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. What's up? So, my husband and I would like to start our own business in the industry that he is currently working in. He is a sound engineer, and he sells AV equipment to churches and schools. And so we're trying to figure out the best way to go about that. His boss is 65 and wants to sell us his business when he retires.

But he, I guess, just started saving for retirement, so he wants to wait 10 years. And I don't know if we can wait that long just because our motivation will probably die by then. But anyway, so there's option one for that. Option two is start our own business. But we don't want to jump out until it kind of starts bringing some income. And so we're unsure about the relationship and the conflict of interest where he's working for this business, but then also starting his own and getting sales for his own business versus the business that he works for. And then the third option,

someone suggested to us that I'm not sure if it's a good idea or not is, I don't, I don't know what it would be called, but like a transfer of ownership over time, where I guess we just would have more percentage of ownership over the 10 years. And we just don't know what the best option is. We could save up in 10 years and buy out the business, but 10 years is a long time to wait.

If you're going to lose your motivation to buy the business in 10 years, you're going to lose your motivation to run a business that you're starting now in 10 years. So you need to plan on having motivation all the way through either way. But aside from that, I'm not waiting 10 years to buy this guy out. I agree with you on that. So the problem is your husband wants to go into the exact same space. He wants to do the exact same thing. Well, yes, but I guess right now if we built it up,

we wouldn't start in the exact same thing. We would start more on the troubleshooting of production issues and then training people on actually how to use. Your husband's current company does not do either one of those things. They do. He does it for them. Well then how would that not be a conflict of interest? He wants to go into the exact same space they're in. Yes, I'm sorry. I'm just saying we wouldn't do all of the aspects starting out.

We would start with one thing. If you're doing anything that's the same, you're stealing from your employer. So you have to go to a place, a portion, a niche, a corner that this employer is not playing in at all. Okay. So this guy does training, troubleshooting, and sells equipment now into churches. Yes. Okay. So you can't do any of that.

Right. Or you have to quit and go get another job and start doing that on the side. Yeah, I guess so. So what does your husband make? About 35 000 a year okay i'm doing this yeah he does currently um run sound for different churches um as an additional income but and that's not something that they do they they don't typically run the appointment for them. Right. Okay. So go get several different people that you can run sound for and, you know, make that your $30,000 a year job and then start your business.

Okay. Where you're not competing with this guy. But it's a lack of integrity to take his money and say you're working for him and be stealing his customers. Yeah, which is what we don't want to do. Exactly. So we didn't know if we could, it's like buying out his business or a transfer. If you want to set a transfer up, that's fine.

And you can start talking to them about that. But just say, okay, we want to buy you out gradually over time and um you know obviously you're going to have to make more than 35 000 a year to do that right and is the relationship aspect of doing that okay like our concern is that because it's his business and it's his baby that he's not going to want to transfer control over time. He may not want to. Yeah. If he doesn't, then you don't have that option anymore.

That one's off the table. So I would talk to him about it and say, okay, I'm interested in buying this out. I don't have the cash today to write you a check, and you're wanting to work another 10 years. Would you be interested in a gradual buyout so that I know I have a lock on this business and it's all set up ahead of time and I'm gradually moving into every year I get a little bit more ownership and every year we walk along.

If not, I'm going to look for a way to go ahead and start my business now. I don't know what that is or when that is. Yeah, okay. But just have a discussion with the guy. Mm-hmm. It's a small shop. Yeah, it is. So, you know, there's not that much to this.

And the good news is if your husband is looking for a job, $35,000 a year jobs doing other things are more available than if he was making $200,000 a year jobs doing other things are more available than if he was making $200,000 a year or something, right? So go get a job doing something completely unrelated and then do your sound stuff on the side until you get it moving. If he can make it, you know, and that way he's not in conflict with his current employer. So if his employer does not want to do a gradual buyout, then that's what you'll have to do.

Because just sitting there on your butt and waiting 10 years is not a good plan. I agree with you on that. Andrew's in Denver. Hi, Andrew. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. It's a pleasure to speak with you. You too. What's up?

I've listened to you for several years. I'm 38, have 300 in retirement, and I just got married, so my eyes are changing to weave. But we don't have any debt except for we now have a combined of four properties. One of them I have a condo paid off. The second one has a house at 55 left. The third one is a condo with 140 left. And the fourth one is a condo with 150 left. What do you live in? Which one do you live in? What's that?

Which one do you live in? We're going to move into one of the condos. The 140 or the 150s? The 140. Okay. All right or the 150s? The 140. Okay. All right. And so that's your residence. Yeah, we want to know if we should sell the house that has 55 left on it and pay off everything,

or if we should keep it, pay it down, and work our way through rental properties. You're debt-free except this? Correct. Do you want to own all of these-free except this? Correct. Do you want to own all of these 10 years from now? Yes. Okay. What's your household income? It's around $160,000.

Okay. And basically you're saying there's three debts, $55,000, $140,000, and $150,000. Correct. So $355,000 making $160,000, right? Correct. How fast are we going to do that? I think we can get the $55,000 paid off in one year. Yeah.

Then you've got $300,000 to go. And I think we can get those paid off in eight. I think you can do it in five. Okay. And I'm keeping them all, if you like them all. And they're good rental properties. And work it out in five. If you want to sell one of them it won't make me mad but if that's your goal to end up with these

rental properties you can pay them down very very quickly here and be done with them by the way your income's going up during that five two this is the dave ramsey show Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry,

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chministries.org In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Dave and Kim are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great, how are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We live in Troy, Illinois.

It's just east of St. Louis, north of Scott Air Force Base. Absolutely. Cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And your T-shirts say, I'm with Dave and me too. Got it. I'm Dave.

So when we take our picture later, we have to set it up properly. Oh, I have to stand to that side because you're Dave and I'm Dave. I'm catching up. It's a little slow, but he's coming along. And she wasn't always with you. You were a four-letter word at one point. This is true. I can understand.

That's happened before. So how much debt have you two paid off? We paid $137. Okay, and how long did this take? It took us three and a half years. Okay, and your range of income during that time? $143 to $160. Okay, what do you guys do for a living?

So I retired from the Air Force, and then for the last 10 years I've been a defense contractor. I essentially bounce between a functional analyst and a research engineer. I work at U.S. Transportation Command. We watch all the movement of the military folks and their gear moving around the world. Cool. And what do you do? I'm a third-grade teacher. Well, I'll be a sixth-grade teacher next year.

All right. Very neat. Very neat. Well, thank you for your service. Thank you, sir. Appreciate that. What was the $137,000 in debt? Well, it was a car that we actually sold, and

then the rest of it was our house. Oh, you paid off your house? We sure did. Looking at weird people. Okay, three and a half years ago, Dave starts trouble and comes in and turns my name and his name into a four-letter word. Tell me about this story. What happened?

Well, I'll let him tell the first part, and then we'll go from there. So I used to, well, so Janet Gerton was an office maid of mine, and she would listen to your podcast every single day, and she would bump me and kick me and say, oh, you've got to listen to this, you've got to listen to this. So that was probably somewhere in November of 2014, and I started listening to you at that point. So January of 2015, we really kind of started. I really kind of brought this and showed her.

We had started a budget in maybe December. We started our budget, and I kind of got her on but we we it was a little bit of trouble but we did fpu in march of 2015 and during fpu i think she really uh maybe came on board a little bit when we cut up we actually shredded our our credit cards oh okay and there's a jar of them and they've been on my desk at home for for three and a half years. Never to be used again. And really, we didn't use them too often, really for more online purchases, which we didn't do that often. But we said, well, if we're going to do this, just let's make it happen.

Game on. Okay. So, Kim, you were resistant at first and later came around. Tell me about that part of it. Well, the biggest reason was because I'm the saver in the family and have been. And when we first started dating, we've been married for 32 years, but I was 17 when we first started dating and he had a motorcycle and I said, you need to pay this off. And he was behind on payments. And so at 17, I was the person already doing all of the, you know, all that stuff. And, you know, over the years I was the person who paid the bills and I did know, all that stuff. And, you know, over the years, I was the person who paid the bills,

and I did all that. I kept us in check, and we had a $50 limit. You couldn't spend more than $50 without asking the other person or talking to the other person about it, unless it was groceries or something along those lines. But he was more the person that I had to drag him along. And so I was doing these things. I wasn't Dave Ramsey.

I didn't have a book. I didn't have a program. So it was a little bit offensive that he comes in after 30 years and acted like a genius. Nailed it on the head. And I don't think he understood that, and it's taken him a while. I've always been on board with your plan, with the ideas behind it. Obviously, I did not have the full-out plan,

but I've always been on board with that. It's just the fact that it took him to be Dave Ramsey. Yeah. He's got to be a Drew. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It was frustrating. Love it.

So what allowed you to get past that? I mean, you're going through the class now. You kind of got a little growling while you're doing it, right? But you get into the class, Financial Peace University, and you're going to the group and watching the lessons and all that. At what point did you kind of go, okay, I'm going to let it go? I still haven't. So it's just gotten a little easier over the years. And truth be told.

That's awesome. So just yet, and all my family knows. So if I was to say something different now, that would be a problem. So like even your emails, advertisements, you know, he was all on board. Once he finds something, he really gloms onto it and he goes full board all the time yeah um and he's a planner and he wants to have all of those things done i am more like kind of i think you say free spirited and in that regard i do like a plan but i can deviate from that plan and be okay with it he cannot no and so he had you know you said

it comes from what he's done for a living. Well, you know. And he, so all the meetings, which I think that's where I kind of fought him the most was, you know, we have to have another meeting about this. Or budget meetings. You know, another meeting, always, always. And that was the hardest part for me because, again, not a planner. Yeah. Let's just let this happen. Don't a meeting don't need a plan right and so um yeah i know what i'm gonna do what's the problem so but i will say like what is it what's the program you use well i just use

an excel spreadsheet i've been i mean i'm a nerd i'm i'm i i uh i think we started uh uh just uh either a little before just just after every dollar. And so I had already had a spreadsheet, and my spreadsheet's got functions. And it's all automated in a lot of ways. And I think that that's really great. I'm not that person. But to see that when he comes in, well, I'm going to change this, and I'll change this, and then watch this add or subtract or whatever.

And so that really, I mean, that's really nice. But so, yeah. So in the end, you know, I'm obviously on board. I mean, that's not a problem. Obviously, your house is paid off and you're standing here with a shirt that says I'm with Dave. So, yeah, you're definitely on board. And can I just say one thing?

So, you know, as we have listened over the years to you and to like Susie Ormans and, you know, the other gurus of the world, we would listen to people say they're paying this or they have this much money or whatever. And so when you started out, you asked us how much money we're making now. And that wasn't always how it was. And I just want people to know that no matter where they start, they can move it forward. Maybe not to this point, but certainly move it forward no matter what. And when we started, we were making, I was a stay-at-home mom, and in the military he was making probably slightly over $20,000.

So we literally knew where every penny was. There was nothing that we didn't know about. And that's why we had the, you know, the times when we said, okay, you can't spend more than $50. So it was just in that sense that I want people to understand that even then you can build it. Our younger selves would never have seen us in the kind of house we have. Not that we have a mansion or anything, but we would have never seen, and we're hard workers, and we fixed our houses up,

and we had nice houses in the end. But it was never like the rich house. But our younger selves, if we saw ourselves now. You'd be proud. We really would. And so I will definitely give kudos to David because he's definitely the one that pushed it to get to this point.

How does it feel now that everything's paid for? It feels wonderful. It really does. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Well, so I need a checklist. I mean, that's how I was, you know, raised in the military is that I need a checklist. So I need a plan. I need to see instructions.

You know, when I open a box of something, I look for instructions. I read the instructions. You're that guy. I am. And so the one thing that all this time she didn't really have was she, I mean, she had it all. She knew. She had the principles, but she didn't have the step-by-step.

She did. But when I started listening to you and looking at the baby steps, there's what I needed. I needed that checklist. And that plan included the budget. I mean, all of that is part of the plan. Great job, you guys. Thank you. Proud of you.

So we rapidly went through Baby Steps 2 through into 6 after we sold our vehicle. I've got to move you to the screen so you don't run out of time. I'm sorry. Great job. I'm proud of you all. $137,000 paid off in three and a half years, making $143,000 to $160,000, housing everything, after 32 years of marriage. Proud of you guys.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Love it! Well done. Guys, let's talk about that timeshare pitch that you fell for. They promised you exclusive access to travel anywhere you want,

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It can be a long process, and it costs money, but it works. They're so confident in their exit service that if they don't get you out you get a 100 refund call 844-999-EXIT it's free to talk 844-999-EXIT timeshare exit team.com Our Scripture of the Day, Romans 8.31. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? Bill Bradley said, Ambition is the path to success.

Persistence is the vehicle you arrive in. Kevin is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Kevin. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. How are you doing, sir? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi. My wife and I are on baby step two and kind of wondering if I should sell my truck to help give us a push. Okay. Two guidelines I use on that. One is you should not own things with wheels and motors totaled up that equal more than half your annual income.

And two, can you be debt-free not counting your house inside of two years? So if you don't sell the truck or you do sell the truck, how much do you owe on the truck? $14,000. Just under $14,000. Gotcha. What's it worth? I could probably get about $24,000 for it. Okay.

And what's her car worth? Her car is worth about $20,000, and we owe just under $20,000 on it. So that's basically a wash. Gotcha. Okay. And so you have $44,000 worth of vehicles, right? Yes, sir. You have a boat, a motorcycle, a four-wheeler?

No, sir. Expensive lawnmower? No, sir. Okay. What's your household income? Right now we're making in between $95,000 and $100,000 before overtime. Okay. We're not getting much overtime.

Okay. So let's just say we've got $100,000 household income. Then using my rule of thumb, you don't want over $50,000 worth of vehicles, right? Because you have too much invested in things going down in value at that point. So you're under that. You're at $44,000. You're not under it a lot, but you're under it. How much other debt other than your home do you have?

Well, we just started your program about a month and a half two months ago um we were at 90 000 and now we're down to about 83 83 000 and you make a hundred um okay can you or will you do what it takes to be debt free making a hundred which is paying off,000 a year for two years. That's the plan, sir. Okay. If you can do that and you love the truck, then keep it. I do. Then keep it. Okay.

But, you know, basically you could speed it up by about six months if you sell either one of these vehicles. Okay. You know, that's what we're saying. Yes, sir. But that's up to you. Are you willing to go through six more months of beans and rice? Rice and beans, no vacations, not seeing this out of a restaurant

unless you're working there and all that kind of stuff. Scorched earth on the lifestyle, right? Because that's the only way you pull this off. $41,000 a year making $100,000 after taxes. You're living on nothing. Yeah. That's tough. It's doable.

I've seen people do it. But, dude, you're going to the pretty extreme here. Okay. And that's okay. I think you can make it. And if you like the truck and you're willing to pay that price to keep it, I probably would. Okay. Because, you know, otherwise, here's what's going to happen.

If you sell the truck, you're going to end up buying another one in a year and a half anyway. And paying cash for it. Yeah. A year and a half after you get out of debt, I mean. So, really, there's not a lot of swing here in what's going on because you like this truck. But that's the guideline. Overall, for the rest of your life paying cash or not of course paying cash is what we the only thing we would tell you to do uh never have a total of more than half your annual income tied up in things that are

going down in value that's what you want to get after there so good job man robin's in los angeles hey robin how are you oh Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, I sold a large house and bought a smaller house. And in the course of doing that, I talked to my CPA and also my financial planner about the best way to handle the dollars that were coming in from the larger house. And they said, well, you're obviously going to have enough to pay off the smaller house if that's what you want to do.

But because you're getting a good return on your invested portfolio, maybe what you should do is put the money in the portfolio, continue to service the mortgage, and have a few percent left over after that. I mean, they both thought that was a good idea. It sounds good on paper, but I want to do it then. But something's bothering you about it. Well, I just want to do it then. Okay.

I mean, we have the money and we have more money than, you know, to pay out the mortgage. That's not a problem. So let me ask you this. If the house was paid for and you met with your financial planner, and he said, I want you to go get a mortgage so that you can invest more with me, so you can make the spread, would you do that? No. What's the difference?

Hello? Hi. What's the difference? What's the difference? I guess there is no difference. There's not. And so you would pay off this mortgage today. You know why?

Because when I ask you that in reverse, rather than the way you're asking me about it, in other words, we're acting like the house is paid off, would you go borrow on it, or should you pay it off? It's the same math exactly, but when I ask it in reverse, it causes you to think not only with your mind where you do math, but with your heart where you do risk. Your financial planner and your CPA are using a naive, primitive financial formula that is inaccurate because it leaves out risk. Okay. And you and I, having common sense, know that their mortgages, even though it's a small mortgage, has a certain amount of risk associated with it, and they have not mathematically adjusted for that risk. And so I'm of the opinion that the borrower is slave to the lender 100% of the time, not part of the time.

And I've done detailed research here at Ramsey Solutions, and we found that 100% of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage. There's risk associated with this. And so I don't borrow money to invest. And not paying off debt in order to keep investments is exactly the same equation. So I disagree passionately with the primitive naive horrible financial formula that your financial planner and cpa are using i would pay off this mortgage in 20 seconds hope that helps because i don't want to be unclear this is the dave ramsey show that's how we roll

here people we're going to tell you the truth. And it's always weird. Let me just tell you what normal is. 70% of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. The number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. A typical student goes to school and comes out with $30,000 to $100,000 in student loan debt. Most of you are walking around with an average of $10,000 to $100,000 in student loan debt. Most of you are walking around with an average of $10,000 to $25,000 in credit card debt, and you have car payments, and you think car payments are a way of life.

You'll never have a car without a car payment. And you live your life, and you work your whole life, and you have millions of dollars of income come into your house throughout your working life and flow back out. And you have nothing to show for it. You retire broke. Financially, you're a freaking rat in a wheel. Normal is broke. Looking good, impressing people at the stoplight, and all your broke friends think you're okay because you're just as normal as they

are but you don't be normal it's unusual to be wealthy behaviors decisions and habits and character traits cause you to build wealth and if wealth is unusual then unusual behaviors habits and character traits are necessary for you to become wealthy. You can be normal. Normal is pretty easy. And you can look like you're having a good life, but you'll be stressed and you have no money. I mean, it's ridiculous, you guys. The amount of money you make in your working lifetime, and you get to retirement and say,

I sure hope the government, which is well known for its ability to handle money, will take care of me. That's just straight up stupid. Whatever everyone else is doing with money, you need to run the other way. Get out of debt, house and everything. Quit borrowing money. Start investing steadily, constantly, consistently. Cut up your credit cards completely, all of them. This stuff's not hard, you guys.

This is how it's done. Be weird. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, guys, this is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm excited to announce that we're now carried on 600 radio stations across the country.

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