The Ramsey Show - App - Fear and Doubt Can Cloud Your Ability to See Your Own Success (Hour 1)

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

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Welcome to the Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. It's where America's hanging out to have a conversation about your life. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by my colleague, Ramsey personality, George Camel. The phone number to jump in on the conversation today is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

I will dive in on your work questions. You want to get a bigger shovel. Ken, I want to get promoted. How do I make more money so I can speed up the baby steps? I'm your guy. I'll help you get a bigger shovel. Some of you are going, Ken, I just need help because I don't enjoy what I do. I'm on my way.

I'm paying off debt. I'm wanting to know, can I work the baby steps but also take steps towards doing work that I really, really love, pursuing the dream? Is that possible? The answer is yes. We'll take on your specific situation. And, of course, George is here, our money guru. He's going to help you with your money questions as well. And so it may be the day for some of you to call in and go, you know what?

I need to call. I'm nervous about calling. We will change your name and your location. We understand that these questions many times are very, very sensitive, George, and we have no problem changing your name and location so that you feel confident to call in and get some help. So we are here standing by, 888-825-5225. We've got some fun stuff we're going to cover today. George, you doing well?

I'm doing fantastic. You just had The Minimalist on your show, so that must have been a good time. Good time, and I must say, for those that will see you on YouTube today, this shirt is very interesting. I don't find that you are much of a football fan from what I know of you, and yet you have miniature, classic, old football players and footballs all over your shirt today. I think it's irony, and I find humor and irony. So you bought it because you thought this will be a funny shirt to wear? Pretty much.

Yeah. You ever do that? No. Okay, just me. Yeah, I don't try to be funny, but I like what you're doing there. It's a great shirt. It's football season. There's probably a big game somewhere this weekend, so I thought.

You sat back, and I see that you've got a grill on your pocket. It's just football culture. Everything football. Yeah, all right. And George just learned recently what football is, so that makes it even more fun. This is why you've got to watch the show. You get to see things like this.

That's exactly right. In an HD, maybe we'll have the guys zoom in on your shirt later in the program and we'll do a full diagram and break down. But, let's get to the phones. That's why we're here to help you. It is your show. We're going to start off with Marsha, who joins us in Atlanta, Georgia. Marsha, how can we help?

Oh, thanks for taking my call. You bet. My husband and I have been working the Ramsey Plan about two years ago, and we sold our home and we paid off over $140,000 worth of credit card bills. Wow. $140,000 in credit card bills. Yes, my husband was, I guess he was just caught up in trying to get extra cards to pay, you know, and transfer balances and just got caught up in a lot of credit card.

What was he buying? Well, we were, you could call it living the Vita Loco. Living the Vita. That's great. I love this. But you know what matters, Marcia, is that you guys got on the same page and paid this off. That's unbelievable.

Yes, we did. So now, we are in a situation that I really need some help with. We have over $300,000 worth of student loans between myself and him. And we have five investment properties. Three we own outright and two we have a mortgage on. And, you know, we're thinking, should we sell investment properties to just get the student loan out of our lives? That's the only debt that we have now? Or should we continue to rent these properties and just use our income to pay off the student loans? What is your household income? Our household income is about $200,000. Okay. Great income there. And you've got $300,000 in student loans, making $200,000. I mean, if you wanted to, if you wanted to get intense,

you can just use your income and pay off these student loans. Now, if I'm in your shoes and I've got five rental properties, two of them having a mortgage on them, I want you to be completely debt-free as soon as possible. So if I'm you, I'm selling one or two of those mortgage properties to pay off these loans. What are these properties worth? Well, they're both worth about $200,000, but one of, I mean, we paid dirt cheap for them, like $20,000.

So, well, the mortgage, oh, the mortgage property, sorry. The mortgage property is probably about $250,000, and one is worth $200,000. What do you owe on each? On the one that's worth $200,000, we owe $68,000 on that one. Okay. And the other one, we owe $123,000. Wow. Well, there's your answer. I'm hearing if you sell the two with the mortgage on them you could pretty much be debt free like tomorrow yes and you still have three paid for properties

right i'd put a i put a sign in the yard of both of those two that you have a mortgage on today oh that that that is good yes that's that's what I was thinking. That's what I thought you all would say. Well, you were thinking properly. Glad we could give you some confirmation there. Well, you guys have done really well on that side. I think you were just doing some things out of order. And now once you pay off these student loans, you've got three paid for properties. You're going to really build some wealth. And my take is that you're going to buy your next properties with cash. Most definitely. That's what we're thinking. I love it. Well, you guys have done really well. We're cheering for you. Get rid of these

properties. Get rid of these student loans. Way to go, Marsha. And you know what's great? You can hear the husband in the background. They're all in. And you know what I really loved about that call? When we first started talking to her and you asked, what was the debt? They paid off like $140,000. In credit card debt. And you were like, what was it? And she was like, hee, hee, hee, my husband. And it was so sweet in that he was completely off the reservation.

And somewhere in that story, we didn't get it, they got on the same page. Yeah. And paid off $140,000 worth of credit card debt, and now look at them. It was clear. They're willing to do whatever it takes. Even though they've made some mistakes, they're owning up and going, we don't want to live this way anymore.

We're done living La Vida Loca. Oh, yeah. That was great. That was the line of the day. America needs to decide. We're done living La Vida Loca. It's smoke and mirrors. It's a house of cards.

You know what? I'm embarrassed to say, I don't actually know what that means. Okay, Ken. I'm of the age. You are bilingual. It was a very popular Ricky Martin song back in the late 90s, early 2000s. I now remember. I am embarrassed to say I forgot.

It felt familiar to me, but I was like, I can't place it. I'm wanting to sing it on air, but I think the FCC might shut us down. Oh, we don't want to do that. I won't do that. All the licensing. For a lot of reasons. What does it mean, though? It means living the crazy life.

Ah, thank you very much. Living the good life, you know? I didn't know. I didn't know. They're laughing at me in the control room. I don't mind. Okay? I just taught you some Spanish, Ken.

I feel pretty good. I feel a little bit more valuable. Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? Well, you know, I would take offense to that, but compared to you, George, I am the old dog, and I might as well just own it. Hey, folks, we're just getting started. We're here to help you on your money questions. You want to get a bigger shovel. You want more out of your life and work.

George and I are here together teaming up to help you. Somebody needs to call. 888-825-5225. Don't move. More of your calls and more of the Ramsey Show coming right up. You've got a lot on your plate. A job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM,

for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey-trusted provider. Welcome back, America. You have joined the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, George Camel. We're taking you through this hour. 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. Boy, I'm going to take a stab at this one. I like to say that I'm hooked on phonics, George, and I'm looking at the board. I'm going to go. It's Eau Claire, Wisconsin. We'll see. ken joins us there oh oh claire oh i blew it ken i'm so sorry how can we help hi my name is ken yeah it's a good name

it is a cool name hey uh i've been an artist my whole life i've made excellent money. I've actually paid off my mortgage 10 years ago with the sales of art. But ever since then, life kind of took a real deep turn and I've been underemployed. And it's all I needed to hear was your philosophy. And I've agreed with that my whole life. But I've been doing things like moving dirt, hauling gravel, driving truck. Right now I'm way underemployed, and I can't do anything other than pay my bills. But marketing. I've got a website with my artwork. Nothing has ever happened with it.

I don't know what to do. I don't know how to market my artwork to get people to see it. Yeah. Tell me about the artwork. What kind of art is it? It's wildlife landscape realism. Okay. Forgive me.

Painting, I'm assuming? Yeah, painting. Okay. Have you ever sold one painting? Boy, did I ever. I got a huge corporation out of Chicago. They're the ones that have paid my mortgage. They helped me add on 20 years ago. I've been selling to them and they have given me like over $100,000 in my life. So you were going through a broker essentially?

No, no. Just I went to the fairs and I went to the fairs, brought me to galleries and then the galleries had customers come in, and then I had personal contacts. They wanted to meet me personally. So wait a second, Ken. Wait a second. Wait, wait, wait. Let me make sure I heard you properly.

Twenty-plus years ago, you made really good money selling the very paintings that right now you're having a hard time selling. And George just said, well, what did you do? And you just listed off. You rattled it off so fast I couldn't write it down. Sorry. No, no, no, no. I didn't. Ken, you've done this before.

What am I missing? I guess a trust that one customer cannot pay my whole life's income. Yeah, but my point is, Ken, have you had success selling paintings? That's where I was going. I had no idea you had had that kind of success. I'm blown away. So answer the question. Have you had success selling paintings before? I have, yes. And you had a personal contact. There you go. You know what it is? You've got to get back out there again.

I don't know what the actual fear or doubt is, but that's the issue. The issue is what is the fear, what is the doubt, and I mean specific voice you're wrestling with right now. I want to know because that's what's holding you back. Yeah, that's what's holding you back. Yeah. That's a good question. That's one I've been asking all my life. Yeah, but I'm not going to let you off the hook.

I'm not going to let you off the hook because I think you know. I want you to own it. Own it. I am. I'm trying. Tell me. What are you most afraid of? What do you doubt the most? That it's not going to be a steady stream. Okay.

Now let's dive into that. Okay. Let's dive into that. Maybe it won't be a steady stream at first. Maybe it'll take a few years to get it to a steady stream. Maybe that stream won't be enough to fully take care of your needs. But is that really the issue?

Because you can do other work that'll keep you going. You're doing it right now. So what are you really afraid of? You're afraid that it was a whim? That it was a chance? That one massive corporation liked your stuff and they paid

you well for it? No one else on the planet is going to like your stuff. they paid you well for it no one else on the planet's gonna like your stuff and because you've done a crappy job of marketing your art on the web don't judge yourself by that that's not how you got success the first time around feels like to me you gotta dust off the old plan and that was good old-fashioned hustle shoe leather to pavement ken and you've got a track right i need i need ideas i guess i just need ideas okay you know other than being a blogger you know i've been going through this stuff it's so much crap on the internet you try to look up this information and everybody wants you to be a blogger. I know, but Ken, you're still missing it. I don't think blogging is the answer.

I think you getting back out and showing your work again. I think for some reason... Go ahead. Are you saying start over like the art fairs again? Yes. Yes. Who's buying art? Where are they?

That's where you've got to go. You're trying to do it online. I didn't do very good with the art peers because I was marketing. It was like a marketing lesson to me. I came there with $4,000 items at a $200 show. All right. I understand, but here's the deal. I'm trying to simplify this for you because I am not an expert

in the art market, but what I am good at doing is simplifying the complex. You are facing right now what feels like a very complex problem. I'm simplifying it for you. You don't have to answer this right now on the air, but this is your homework assignment.

Who is buying $4,000 pieces of art? Who is buying $4,000 pieces of art? Who is buying $4,000 and higher pieces of art that are in your particular style? Forgive me if that's the wrong way to say it, but you get my point. Where are they? George, you brought up the broker issue. Who's out there helping sell those things? This is good old-fashioned research.

There's a market for it. And Ken, I think the most important thing is for you to remember that you've made a lot of money selling art before. This is not a pipe dream for you. This isn't some willy-nilly crazy notion. You just got to get hustling again and be willing to deal with rejection. That's what's going on, George. I'm telling you right now, you're going to hear some no's, but you're going to have to step into those no's to be able to get some yeses. And you're so worried that you got the only yes that you could ever get that it's clouding your judgment. Yeah, there are so many people out there, Ken and Ken, who want to buy really great artwork at that price point. So if I'm you, I'm going to find every avenue and try it and see what works.

Go to your local coffee shop and say, hey, can I hang my painting in here for free? I'll let you guys have it in here for free if you'll just put my information underneath it. Hey, I'm going to go on TikTok and show people the behind the scenes of how I do my artwork and get people excited about it and show them how much work I put into this. Maybe you start an Instagram and try there because that's a great visual social media place where people are already hanging out and you start using some hashtags. There are so many avenues to learn about marketing through YouTube, LinkedIn, wherever, where you can really start to test out where are these people at who really appreciate what I do. How about walking into a local art gallery, talking to the owner and going, hey, here's my background.

20 years ago, I did this many pieces of art for this company. That's impressive. That's credible. And you go, hey, can I show you a couple of pieces? I got it in the truck. And I want to start putting my stuff back out. What kind of deal do you want? If you sell it, what do you want for it? The answer is whatever.

Whatever they say, say yes. You got to start showing your work and get it back out there again. But I can tell you right now that the fear of rejection and the fear of failure are hanging out on both of Ken's shoulders right now. Yeah. And it has clouded his ability to see that he was successful before. He could be successful again. He thought it was, well, it was my one.

I did it back then. I'll never do it again. It was a stroke of luck. Yeah. You know, I've heard Dave say this before, that, you know, making the second million is easier. There's a reason for that. You've got some history. Inside of that history is some skill.

Inside of that history is some experience. And when we embrace that and go, wait, I've done this before. I'm not starting from scratch. It's not this new thing. I know I can do this. Then all of a sudden, confidence emerges. And I think, Ken, the name of your game is confidence. You've got to get your confidence back up.

Put yourself out there. It's worth it. Because I'm going to tell you right now, if you don't do this second time around, you're going to get to the end of your journey and be sick with regret. Don't regret. Reminisce. Go after it. Put your work out there. You got this. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Welcome back, America. You are joining The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague George Campbell. We're taking your calls this hour, 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. And we're now going to go to Victorville, California, where I see on the screen, Stephan and Lisa are on the line. George, and I'm told you guys are on the line to do a debt-free scream. Yes. Oh, that's awesome. Well, welcome. Thank you so much. You bet. All right, let's get to the story. How much debt did you pay off? We paid off over $124,000. Wow, $124,000. Okay, and how long did it take? That took four years of really just hitting it, every single paycheck.

Oh, yeah, that's a lot of money. That's unbelievable. Tell us your range of income during that time. From that time that we started, we were about $150,000, and then ended up at about $250,000. Whoa! Okay, we can't go any further. I've got to know what led to the $100,000 in increase.

My wife got a promotion to be a principal. Oh, nice. Very nice. By the way, I like what happened there, George. You know, Lisa was like, I'm going to let you tell them. Yep. Way to go, Lisa. How does that feel?

Oh, it felt good. Thank you. That's impressive. All right. So tell us what this debt was. What made up this $124,000? That was student loans that I had accrued, you know, bachelor's degree, master's degree, my Ph.D. I just kind of wrapped it up.

Okay. All right. Very good. And then we had a car loan as well that we were able to pay off. All right. Okay. So pretty normal stuff there. So take us to four years ago when you guys start this journey. What led to this? I think we had done the Financial Peace University early in our marriage. And so we knew the steps and we knew what we needed to do to make it happen. Okay, and so you kind of knew, but was there a moment where you went,

we've had enough? I mean, what led to this? Because we're talking about intense, $124,000 over four years. I think finally seeing that the student loan was actually due, so it made like an impetus that we had to start really attacking it. So it made it our number one goal was to pay as much as possible every month and just attack it, you know. So you got sick of giving a chunk of money away every month and you went, we don't need to do this anymore. We make good money. We want to live life on our terms and

have this money back in our life attacking our goals. Exactly. I love it. So what did you guys actually do? What were the sacrifices you made along the way? The sacrifices were things like cutting back on the big vacations and thinking about refinancing where we could with our mortgage and getting better rates there so that we would have a better monthly mortgage payment. And just, you know, following the gazelle intensity of paying it down

and communicating and knowing that this was our combined goal to get this out of the way. Wow. So you reallocated a lot of this money that could have gone to a lot of places, and you said, nope, it's got an assignment. It's going to this debt. Is there something that sticks out to you all as maybe one of the toughest things you had to deal with? It was really, really tough. Maybe it was along the way and you felt like, well, we're hitting a lull. Well, what was a real challenge for you on this journey? I think in the middle, it just got kind of hard. You know, you didn't see that much of an improvement. You still had an insurmountable

mountain you're climbing, but then you just had to put your head down and just keep moving and trust the process. So what was the, what do you think the key was? The last loan. For another couple out there who may be where you guys are at, six figures in debt going, well, we're just going to pay this thing off for 20 years. What would you tell that couple the key is to getting out of debt? Right. Absolutely. What was the key? The key was just trying to do right living like no one else so that we could live like no one else.

So you had to change your mindset and go, we've got to live differently right now so we can live differently later. So who were your biggest cheerleaders on this journey, walking you through this, like that middle period, Stephan, that you just mentioned that was so difficult, you didn't feel like you were making so much progress? Who helped keep you in the game? I think we could say our church family that, you know, started us on FPU so many years ago, and then we were leaders at one point, and just being that example, too.

You know, we can talk it, but we had to live it as well. Walk the talk. Yeah. That's been a theme this year. Yeah, really has. Definitely. So, George asked you kind of what the key is, but as you guys sit here today, you're about ready to do this scream. How would you encourage others that are listening? Because at some point you all listen to other people do what you're about to do. What would you say to them if they feel like they're in this lull or they don't know if they can do it? What's your advice to them? Just keep grinding. I mean, it looks insurmountable, but, you know, one step at a time and you'll get through it.

And find that the extra side things that you can contribute to make it a little bit easier. Like Stefan said, in the middle it's still monotonous and you're looking at the shiny things that you could be spending your money on. And you have to just deflect to what you know would be the right choice. Yeah. Wow. Well, let me tell you something. You all, you're an inspiration. You're heroes. You've done something that is very, very difficult to do. You've shared that story and you stuck together. and now you're on the other side of it. What does it feel like? Such a relief.

Such a relief. Absolutely. Yeah, you've heard Dave talk about the grass feeling different. Is that true? What feels different specifically as you guys walk through your everyday life? I think not having to worry about extra debt, extra payments we have to make.

Now it's savings and different other projects we can do, and we can save for that. Yeah, that's awesome. And I see a picture here of two kiddos. Tell us about the kids and their ages, because we know they're going to benefit from this unbelievable sacrifice that you've made. Absolutely. We have Ryan, our

son, he's now seven, and Elizabeth is now four, and they're learning the system. They know that if they don't have the cash, we're not going to give them a card. Wow. They should run for Congress. Oh, that'd be great. Very nice, George. Very nice. That's impressive. I like that. Changing the family tree. Hey, Stephan and Lisa, we want to gift you with two books to thank you for sharing your story, but also for you all to keep moving forward. The first is Dave's book, The Legacy Journey, because that really is the next step for you all on your journey. You really are living and giving like no one else. The second is we want to give you a copy of Dave's wildly popular bestselling book, Total Money Makeover, and that is a gift for you all to give to somebody else who you can now

say, hey, this works, and we want you to be able to pay that forward in their life as well. So we want to give you those. I would love to. Yes. So we'll send those out to you. All right. Let's do this.fan and lisa from

victorville california they paid off 124 000 in four years making 150 000 then up to 250 000 stefan and lisa take it away let's hear your debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! All right, there it is. Another couple. Debt-free. Another student loan bites the dust. There it is.

A whole bunch of it, too. Yeah. I mean, that was a big, big chunk of what they paid off. That's a chunk of the $1.6 trillion sitting out there. Oh, man. Man, oh, man. And you know what's great? When you hear the stories, but you realize that there's kids involved. Yeah. And these kids are learning to not ever fall into that same trap their mom and dad did. But you think about the life that those kids are going to lead as a result of what their mom and dad did.

I mean, this really is legacy. And I love that we give them a copy of the legacy journey because that's what this whole thing is about, George. Yeah. You've got to teach these kids this stuff early on. And these kids caught it. It wasn't just taught. They saw mom and dad's sacrifice along the way.

And I doubt they're ever going to touch that after hearing this story, Ken. Amazing stuff. Amazing stuff. Thank you again, Stephan and Lisa.. Amazing stuff. Thank you again, Stephan and Lisa. You are heroes. Thank you for sharing your story. Countless people will be inspired to do what you did. So thank you again very much. He is George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. welcome back america you are joining the conversation here on the ramsey show uh if you've been paying attention to any news you've probably heard the term the great

resignation flying around and uh it's the big name that people are kind of putting on this massive job turnover situation going on uh in this country uh people are kind of putting on this massive job turnover situation going on in this country. People are saying, hey, I don't like where I am. I want to level up. I want more out of my work. And so they're leaving and looking for something better. Now, you may feel like now's the right time for you as well. But if you don't have a clue what you actually want to do,

then you may not even actually get what you want and move to something that's going to be better then you may not even actually get what you want and move to something that's going to be better for you in the long term. You need a plan. And you're right. Work isn't supposed to be a four-letter word. You can find work that will leave you feeling energized and fulfilled. You can make the income and the impact you want out of the same gig.

And that's why I wrote my brand new book that reveals to you the clear path to finding and doing work you love. From Paycheck to Purpose will walk you through the proven plan that has helped thousands of people find their dream job. And when you pre-order the book today, we'll also send you over $100 in free bonus tools like resume templates, guides, a video course on how to get hired and beat the competition. All of that is going to add value to you on this journey. So get your copy of From Paycheck to Purpose today at RamseySolutions.com. That's RamseySolutions.com. The book is From Paycheck to Purpose.

888-825-5225 is the number. Let's go to Azure in Dallas, Texas. How can we help? Hi, it's wonderful to talk to you. Thank you. I have a small counseling practice up in North Texas, and I am looking to relocate to East Texas in about a year and a half. And I'm trying to figure out what's the best way to transfer it? Do I sell it and just restart or move it down there? Yeah, that's a very interesting question. My question is, have you looked into what the details could look like if you were to sell the practice? Meaning, is there any interest?

Who would you approach to see if there is interest? Where are you on that option? Sure. So I have two other therapists that have contracted with me. They work underneath me. And one of them is a good possibility of possibly wanting to purchase it. And she's up and coming, and she's dynamite. So she would be a good option. But I don't know that she would definitely be able to do it in a year and a half.

Yeah, yeah. Well, and so when you talk about a counseling practice, I mean, are you doing much, I don't want to call it telecounseling, but, I mean, are you doing much Zoom stuff, or is now everything kind of resumed back to in-person for you? I do a lot of both, actually. And it's been a really good option. And having the Zoom option has been a really great deal for my clients. And I probably carry about 20% of my clients online. And the other 80% are in-person.

Yeah. I'm going to throw another option at you. I'm sure you've thought of it, but I just am curious. Why wouldn't you, if you're just simply moving from one part of Texas to the other, and you already are doing 20% of your counseling online, if you will, why wouldn't you keep the practice where it is and just open up another office where you are? I have considered that. And my concern is that I wouldn't have enough of a client base to get the revenue that I need to maintain and to pay for another office space. If that makes sense, like in the interim until I build up another client base in the new location, would it be enough? But yes, and I have thought about, you know, continuing with some of my current clients

online. I just know that the majority of them don't want to do online, and they probably would fall off if I, you know, if I moved. Okay, and I totally, and I get that. Yeah, but see, here's the issue. When you're selling a counseling business, what are you really selling? You know, I'm guessing you don't own your building. Is that fair?

That's true. I rent office space. Yeah. So what are you selling? In your mind. I want you to answer that. So I incorporated, I have a PLLC, and I have software that is set up specifically for this practice.

Okay. People know where it is, and they're familiar with the name of the practice, but it's primarily North Texas. Nobody in East Texas has ever heard of me. Right, exactly. So my point is, if you move to a different part of Texas, and only 20% of your clients want to continue to do online, that means 80% of your clientele has to choose. Are they going to keep coming to this practice even though they're not seeing you? They're not going to have to choose to see the other two counselors, correct? That's correct.

Yeah, so I guess my point is you've got a challenge in that the person who's interested in buying it isn't going to be able to buy it when you want to move. And so I think in this situation, I would probably, if you can't get somebody else to buy that software, and then, I mean, what else are they buying? I just think it's a hard purchase to sell. I think it's a hard sell. And so I think I would just wrap it up and I would move on. That's what I would do.

But if you could sell it, great, sell it. But I think that's going to be difficult. So I think that you may just end up having to shut it down and then reopen where you move. That makes good sense. I appreciate the insight. Yeah, you bet. You bet. Thanks for the call.

And, you know, George, it's very interesting in this world we live in now, you know, because of the quality of video conferencing, you know, doctors were doing telemedicine that way. Certainly I think counseling is a very intimate setting, but it is possible to do that kind of work now that way if you can do it, if you can get clients to do it. I like the idea of her not letting go of this quite yet and starting small in her new area and starting to build that up over time. Maybe by then there's a buyer or one of her counselors are able to purchase it.

Yeah, absolutely. Let's go to Mitchell now in Chattanooga, Tennessee, not too far from us here in the Nashville area. Mitchell, how can we help? Hey, thanks for taking my call. So a few months back I used Ken's principles and got a new career, and that got me out of debt. Oh, I like hearing that. There we go. Yeah, so now I can actually start contributing to the company match 401k since I'm out of Baby Step 3, and they have

a 6% match. So my question is, with Dave's 15% going into retirement, would I do 6% match and then 9% outside of that, or 6% there and then 15% outside of that? That's a great question. And in these instances, when you've got a company match, we look at that as icing on the cake. So I still want you investing 15% of your income into that 401k. And if there's a Roth option, that's even better. And then take that 6% match as a bonus. But no, it's not going to be a 6 and a 9 on your part.

I want you to invest still the full 15%. Your job could change. Your life could change. The company numbers could change. The benefits could change. But I want you consistently investing 15%. Okay. And would I do the 15% in the company match on top of the 6? Or would I go through an ELP and just do it separately from the company match?

No, they have a 401k, correct? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So what you want to do there is do it separately from the company match. No, they have a 401k, correct? Yes, yes. Yeah, so what you want to do there is you'd go up to the match, that's 6%. Then you can open up a Roth IRA if you don't have one already, and you can work with a SmartVestor Pro, like you mentioned there, to get that open. And you want to max that out. The limit is $6,000 for most people this year. And then you go back to the 401k uh and you can dump money into

there and if it's that's if it's not a roth option i assume it's there is no roth option there no it's it's the uh target date option as far as i know it's a traditional 401k okay if it's traditional then that's what you do is go to the roth then back to the 401k and finish out your 15 awesome okay thanks Okay. Thanks to you guys. Thanks so much. Yeah, absolutely. What a success story. I love it. Guy's got him a new career. But by the way, that's the bigger shovel.

Yeah. Right there. If we can help at Ramsey Solutions through the Ken Coleman Show and the resources we've created to get that bigger shovel, let's go. Because that's an example. Mitchell got a better gig, got promoted, and got out of debt. And now he's calling you for investing questions. I mean, this is what it's about right here.

This is the sweet spot when it comes to what we do here, Ken, is when you can intertwine the career side, the purpose side, with the money side, and you realize they actually work hand in hand. They do. I mean, have you ever heard a debt-free scream? I've not. Have you ever heard one where they didn't make at least some more money? I mean, just some. Not recently. Many times it's substantial where they make more money. Yeah. So making more money is a big part of getting out of debt. George and I will take those calls. I want to hear it. I want to thank our producer, James Childs, our associate producer and call

screener, Kelly Daniel. I want to thank you, George. Thanks for hanging with me. We want to thank our producer, James Childs, our associate producer and call screener, Kelly Daniel. I want to thank you, George. Thanks for hanging with me. We want to thank you, America, for listening because we do it for you. This is your show. It is The Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.