The Ramsey Show - App - Financial Chaos Can Derail Your Future

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

While we're out for the Christmas break, we've compiled some of our favorite Dave and Ken calls from the past couple of years. Enjoy your day and we'll be back with a live show in the new year! Merry Christmas! Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: ‘I haven't filed taxes since 2020’ 'I don't feel like we can catch up on our finances’ ‘My mom did a home remodel without permits’ ‘Fiancée's parents want me to sign a prenup' ‘What do I do after losing my business to a fire?’ Discussion about what "being managed out" means.

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality. Number one best-selling author of the book, A Check to Purpose, is my co-host. Thanks for joining us. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Marcus is in Oklahoma City.

Hey, Marcus, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'll just be quick and to the point. 2020, 2021, I was working a mortgage company. They closed their doors in 2022. I was making quite a bit.

Now I'm a teacher. Didn't file my taxes for 2020 and 2021. Probably 80% of that was obviously commissioned. So I did dumb. I know I need to file those now, obviously, and I'm going to owe quite a bit. I was just going to see if I could maybe get some advice on how to go about doing that in the least harmful way. Ouch. Okay, here's the thing. Not paying taxes is not a criminal act.

Not filing taxes is a criminal act. That's what's weird. We do not have a debtor's prison. They don't put people in jail for not paying their taxes, but they do put people in jail about 2,500 a year for failure to file. Okay. So that's where, that's the danger that you're in. I'm more concerned about that than I am the payment plan. I don't think you're in trouble. And because 99% of the time that you're not some Paula,

not some public figure that you come and self fight, you know, you, you catch up your filings. They're just all late. You don't get into any criminal issues. But I want you to get it done now. I don't want them to come find you, okay? I want you to go to them, like, immediately. No later than the middle of January.

These documents need to be filed, okay? Yes, sir. You know, that's the panic. Then the second issue is how do we pay it? Well, number one, we've got to assess the damage and figure out from the actual filings, what you actually owe. And then, um, you know, your worst case scenario is you're selling some stuff and putting, uh, the KGB, I mean the IRS on a payment plan. Okay. So, because, I mean, if you were doing mortgage origination in 2020, you made some bank.

Yes, sir. Yeah. Like what did you make that year? Probably $250,000. And you paid zero taxes? Yes, sir. Did you save any? Yeah.

Yeah, I got about probably $100,000 saved. Oh, good. Okay. Because you're probably going to have a $100,000 tax bill. Oh, yeah. Okay. If you've got two years of that, you will. Yeah, easy.

Yeah. So you're going to give them what you've got to limit it, and then you're going to work out the payments. What you've got to have is a real tax pro in your corner right now and if you'll go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the tax elp for your area there in oklahoma city i know them they're good people they can sit down with you and help you first get the filings done and then secondly negotiate the payment plan and how much of this you got to throw at them to keep them off your bank account.

Because we don't want them putting liens on everything after you file, but also don't want them putting bracelets on you that connect because you didn't file. Yes, sir. So we need to get filed, and then we need to develop how tough the path is that we've got to walk through. Do you own a home? Yes, sir. What's it worth? About $ sir. What's it worth? About $500. What do you owe?

About $200. Okay. Well, and what is your household income nowadays? Probably about $70. I have three jobs right now, so I'm a teacher. I do some data entry at night night and i do wait some tables on the weekends you have any money other than the hundred i know you have any money in retirement you have money in retirement i do okay all right i do not tell people to cash out retirement for

um for to pay off debt i might to pay off the irs to keep from selling your home you follow me so that's what you've got to get into you've got to ascertain because let's just say this okay let's say it's 150 and you throw 100 down and you say okay we're going to pay uh 20 or we're going to pay two thousand dollars a month for three years and we'll be out of debt. That's okay. But if it's $200 and you put $100 down and you're going to be in debt for a decade, you don't want that. You need to clean out something else, the house or the retirement accounts, and clean up the mess. So the not filing, and it's not the not filing, the not paying and the not filing, I hope it's not a ton more than the $100 when you get there. It's not the not filing. The not paying and the not filing, I hope it's not a ton more than the 100.

When you get there, it's going to be something more than that. But you need to understand the size of the problem. The not knowing is a bigger stress inducer than knowing the details. So you've got the cancer diagnosis. You just don't know what the treatment is yet, and you don't know whether it's terminal. So the first thing they do is they scare you to death and you go around for about two months with or two weeks with no information and then they start going okay well here's the treatment plan oh you mean i'm not going to die well that would have been handy

information about a week ago you know and that's kind of what you're dealing with here is that same set of emotions. So, you know, get with a tax pro today. When you hang up, open up RamseySolutions.com, click on Tax Pro ELP at Oklahoma City, and go sit down with them this week. I don't give a crap if it's Christmas. You know, you need to give yourself a gift to get this monkey off your back oh man that's scary yeah and i hope he has he saved some money i hope he also has some write-offs and records of that kind of stuff uh so that he can you know the better the better your records the more you can limit this yes that's exactly right write-offs and records

tax pro here is huge though do not try to figure this out on your own. No, and don't go ask the IRS what to do. Oh, yeah. Good Lord. Yeah. It's like asking a dog if it's hungry. You know, no, we don't do that. So, you know, where did you get your tax information?

From the IRS. Oh, my God, you're a fool. You know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't ask them. We don't ask the fox about the hen house. Hello. Yeah. So, yeah. Oh, no, no, no. We don't ask them. We don't ask the fox about the hen house. Hello. So, yeah. Oh, yeah, they're tasty.

And by the way, don't ask them for grace either because they don't have any. This is get your tax pro to help you. You mean Grace Quinn? I used to talk to Grace. Yeah, right. I used to talk to her weekly. She called me all the time. It's like from Christmas Vacation.

She died 10 years ago. Yeah. Yeah, they're just not going to be kind, and a tax pro here is going to be your advocate, and they know everything that they can do. They're worth it, so don't try to navigate this on your own. And here's the last

part of this, okay? These commercials that are on cable TV, do you have $10,000 or more in tax debt? We can get it forgiven. We have ex-IRS agents working for us. Just give have $10,000 or more in tax debt? We can get it forgiven. We have ex-IRS agents working for us. Just give us $5,000 and we will promptly do nothing for the next 24 months. That's what that is. That's a complete freaking scam. There's a thing called the OIC, an offer in compromise that you can get your federal income taxes forgiven. About 1% of them

are approved. You have to prove total paupership, meaning you don't have a house, you don't have a job, you don't have any potential income, and you don't have any assets of any kind. And then they will forgive your debt after fooling with them for about two and a half years. Don't answer those stupid butt cable TV ads. Go get a tax pro and actually work a plan to get the mess cleaned up. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie. In our self-obsessed society, we're obsessed about our own diets,

our own workout routines, our own jobs, our own social media feeds, everything. It's easy to forget that no one can do life alone. And I don't care if you're an introvert, an extrovert, or whatever you wanna call yourself, we all have to have a community and a support system to do life with. It's time to shift the focus from doing it all by ourselves

to knowing that we can only be well and whole when we ask for help. Therapy can be a great source of help and support for any area of your life. And if you're thinking about starting therapy, try BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy so it can fit with your schedule.

To get started, just fill out a short online survey to get matched with a licensed therapist. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P,.com slash Ramsey Radio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Oramar is with us in Canada. Hey, Oramar, how are you?

Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, I'm actually ecstatic to be on this phone call. I can't believe I'm talking to you guys, but I'm calling from New Brunswick, Canada. I actually moved with my family and my two babies, three and four, from Toronto, escaping pretty much what was happening over there. A normal run down home was $2 million. We didn't want to get into a mortgage like that. And because we had

the freedom of remote jobs, we decided, well, let's move. We wanted a more conservative place as well. So it's been amazing living here. But we purchased a house $400,000 last year. It has been a year and a half. And I feel like I'm on baby step number zero. We are reading the book and we're doing everything we can, but we had very bad advice with our mortgage. We went on a variable rate last year and I just, I feel hopeless. I don't know how to even get through this. So we've done what we can and we got the book from the church um total money makeover we've been reading it but with two little ones it's been tough and

i just i don't know how to deal and cope with i guess paying the mortgage when we initially budgeted for sixteen hundred dollars and we ended up at a fixed rate of actually we fixed our rate last week, and we ended up at $3,200. So you have a $3,200 mortgage, and what is your income? So my husband makes $85,000 a year, and I recently started a work uh with the same company actually and i'm making 3390 uh i'm not on payroll but i am i've been with them for 10 months and they are willing to put me on payroll it's just it hasn't come to that yet it's 3390 an hour or $33,900 a year? No, so $3,390 monthly plus $85,000 a year that my husband earns, which is, I believe it's $4,900 a month. So we're roughly around $8,000 to almost $9,000 a month.

Yeah, you're about $8,500 a month take-home pay, and you have a $3,200 mortgage, which leaves $5,000 to pay the rest of your bills. Why can you not do that? I know, right? We feel the same, but unfortunately, since we got our home last year, we had a, I don't know why we came up with the bright idea that we wanted to finish the basement that we had in this house because we wanted to rent it out we said well maybe let's do like a side uh income and have um someone be downstairs and so is it finished or not it is okay somebody living down there

yeah finally okay and how much are they paying you of being twelve hundred dollars okay and so that's another twelve hundred on the eighty five hundred now what what other bills have you got other than the thirty two hundred dollars what other debt payments have you got? Insurance, I believe it's 240. No, I'm talking about debt. Oh, it's 32,000 on a home credit line. How much is the payment on that? A lot. It's like $900. $1,100.

A little bit more maybe because we really got behind. Okay, $1,100. All right, so that's 4,300. Okay, and what else? Yeah, $1,100. So that's $4,300. Okay, and what else? $20,000 on a credit card, which I don't know how it even came to that. Okay, Omar, stop. Here's what's going on.

Okay, your brain is scrambled eggs on this money stuff because you're all over the place just to talk to you, and that's where all your stress is coming from okay so the numbers you've given me because you haven't thrown me any numbers here that don't work you've got 9700 a month coming into this house counting the 1200 rent okay the only numbers you've given me are 3200 and100 going out. So when you just start, just get, no, no, no, no, no, no, my turn. Just at the top of the page, write $9,700 and then write minus $3,200, minus $1,100, minus a little for insurance, minus some electricity and food, and then you're going to go, hey, where's all my dadgum money going?

Because that's where I'm going right now. I can't figure out why you're stressed out about this. You should have plenty of money. So what that tells me is you guys are very disorganized. You're very chaotic. It's chaotic talking to you. I'm not being mean to you, but that's what's happening. It's the stress is in the air.

I can feel it. And, honey, you got to get this you guys got to get if you'll if when you push this down on the paper and transfer this financial stress into actual arithmetic the stress will start to dissipate because you you are not out of control here unless you've left out entire segments in this conversation, which is possible. But you've got – there's something about writing it down that makes it come alive and makes it get under control. So, Ormar, it's kind of like – remember that time back in high school, Ken,

when you have a problem, or you might do it as an adult, and you sit down with your friend who's going to help you with the problem, and you tell them the whole problem, and by the time you actually put it into cogent words, you know the answer, and it's not a problem anymore, your friend doesn't have to say anything. They just got to look at you like you're an idiot, right? And so, or worse than that, you write it down. If you write yourself a report on what's going on, by the time your brain goes from jumble to verbal and then one more step from verbal to written,

you have processed this information very thoroughly, and the answer oftentimes will appear right in front of you. You're on the other end of that spectrum right now, Oremar. So you guys need a budget. That's what you need. And your time is not being managed well. Your kids are overrunning you. I bet your house need a budget. That's what you need. And your time is not being managed well. Your kids are overrunning you. I bet your house is a mess.

And so, you know, the chaos is in the air. And when you get things orderly and straightened up, the calendar's straight, the budget is straight, you're going to get on top of this, and you're going to be able to run so fast because you're really doing better than it feels like you're doing to you. Your numbers are not nearly as bad as your emotions are telling you they are. Yeah, what I heard is someone who's being reactive instead of proactive. And the power in writing it down and creating this budget, Omar, what Dave's telling you is right.

When you look at just that exercise where he said, all right, let's start with what's coming in. You guys have got to write down what's going out. And when you begin to get intentional, proactive versus reactive, you guys are letting every day come at you. And I don't think you have a plan at all. And it's just overwhelming. Your emotions are managing this. Your emotions are managing, not your logic. That's right.

So get your critical thinking skills up on top of it. Open up an EveryDollar app. Get that thing going. You've got a total money makeover book. You and your husband sit down, turn the TV off, put the kids to bed, tell them to stay in bed. And we're going to sit here and we're going to read this book and we're going to freaking do these steps.

Exactly. We're going to get these forms out of the back of the book even. I don't care if you do it longhand with a yellow pad. But when you get organized, you will feel more in control. And the reason you feel that way is because you are more in control. And it changes everything. Folks, when you jump on your EveryDollar app and do your budget for the first time, and you say, this is how much is coming in, and here's where I know it's going,

and then there's this big pile of money left over, you're going to go, what am I doing? I'm spending like I'm in Congress. What am I doing? You're going to have that moment where you feel like you got a raise. It's true. Every dollar allows you to see where you are and then you can start making changes. But the problem is when you don't know where you are and what we felt in her was this, I just don't know where any of it's going and I don't know and I don't know where you are and what we felt in her was this, I just don't know where any of it's going and I don't know and I don't know. And here's what we know about just human psychology, when the scariest thing is the unknown. And so every dollar allows me to actually for the first

time go, oh, that's where I'm spending money. Bad news is not nearly as scary as unknown. That is so true. The human brain reacts more aggressively and positively towards bad news than it does the unknown. You might have cancer. It's going to be three weeks before you tell you. That's three weeks of hell. Yeah. And then they say, you got stage three.

Bring on the chemo. You're like, at least I know what it is. The devil I know. Let's fight it. Here we go. Game on. But the unknown will drive you bananas this is the ramsey show

ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today melissa is with us in Rochester, New York. Hi, Melissa. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, good afternoon, sir. Thank you so much for having me on your show. Sure. What's up? Sure, sir. The reason why I'm calling in is because I'm having a couple of issues right now. I currently own the home that I live in. It has completely paid off. However, that home is actually my mom's home. What was your mom's home? It's now yours. Yes, it was my mom's home. It is in my name now. It is paid off. However, it was originally my mom's home. She lost it, and so I helped her save the home, and now it's in my name. I don't feel

that she'll lose it again. However, sir, my mom has made infrastructure changes to the property. This was before I even had the home. She had made infrastructure changes and she didn't properly permit the house. So she's gone now a couple of years with having rooms that she created into the house that weren't permitted. And so now I may fear that I may be facing any type of legal issues or ramifications that can come out of a house being in my name and her doing things to the home before they were even in my name. And so now I'm trying to just save myself any issues that may come out of all of this. And I want to just un-deed myself and deed my mom back on the property and

just give her the property to take care of how old is your mom my mom is 70 years old okay what did she do to the house she refinanced it no i'm talking about the structural issues what did she change she added um bedrooms to the property. So she did an addition. Yes. It changed the square footage of the house. Are they not within code?

Well, no. If you didn't permit and you changed the square, she changed the footprint, right? Yes. So the actual outside structure of the home is the same. It was never changed. But what she did was she built up additional walls creating bedrooms. Inside. Inside the original footprint.

Inside the original footprint, correct. Yeah, that's why I'm asking. Well, they have no way of knowing what happened there. Right. Correct. So, no, you don't have any liability. Nothing to worry about. There's nothing to worry about. There's nothing to worry about?

Right. Nothing to worry about. And that's why I asked the code question. Did she rewire the house without getting an electrical permit? No. Did she replumb the house without getting a plumbing permit? Yes. Completely replumbed the whole house?

Well, she added a bathroom. She added one bathroom. Yeah, okay. Is the construction done of reasonable quality yes it is okay i don't think you got a thing to worry about nothing at all i think you got a thing to worry about it would have been better to permit it but lots of people do that kind of stuff i mean that's a fairly normal practice yeah some some municipalities are much more strict than others i can't tell you that you know, Rochester, New York is not like the toughest in the world

or something. I don't know that. But in general, most people, you know, it's inside the footprint. She didn't change the dimensions of the house. And, you know, she didn't illegally do a trade other than adding a bath. I really, truly, I don't think you get a thing to worry about. And I wouldn't give her the house back. She's going to borrow against it.

Well, and here's what's going to happen is she's going to screw it up, and then she's going to try and leave it to you when she dies. And you've got the mess again. You're going to get it back. This thing's a boomerang. Yes. And now my one fear right now is, so the conditions of the house, the roof needs to be replaced. That's about $ of the house, the roof needs to be replaced.

That's about $20,000. The driveway needs to be replaced. Fencing needs to be added. Is she living in it or are you? We're both living in it right now. What do you make a year? Right now I'm not working. I decided to put myself back into school and I just graduated two months ago. How do you people eat? Where's the money? Well, I have savings that I use up right now.

I only have about 2,000 savings left. And you have a paid-for house that's all run down? Come again, sir? You have a paid-for house, but it's all run down? Yes, it's run down. And what are you getting ready to do for a career now i'm getting ready to go into public safety law enforcement to be specific and you'll be making what i'll be making approximately sixty thousand dollars a year okay all right well and i currently have okay i would not date it back to her i would either sell it to an investor as is and you guys go about your merry way or i would sit there with

a plan to to gradually do the uh repairs that need to be done out of cash from your new job part of this is you want to get rid of the of all the negative things that your mom represents by getting rid of this house yes sir because right now she rents out that's where some of the income is coming and she did additional bedrooms she rents out the bedrooms and so that income she claims it all because that's technically her retirement, so she doesn't work. I'm sorry, the house is yours. How does she rent out your house and she collects the rent? Y'all are weird. Yes.

It's only because the house was originally mine. I did save it from her. I didn't technically have any financial investment in it. How did you save it then? I was able to, when she short-sold the house, I was able to purchase it for about $40,000. That's called a financial investment. Yes, and she has since then refunded me that money. Okay.

You don't have boundaries is the bottom line. I think you might be right melissa i actually i'm changing i'm going to change my mind right here in the middle of this call wow i think you deed it to her and let her have it and you go have a life and when she passes away you auction it off don't you ever move in it okay i think this house and all the chaos that occurs around your mother in this house is all a huge negative spot for you and a clean fresh start in criminal justice system is a great thing for you clean no chaos simple little one bedroom apartment and you build up some cash again

and uh you've come out even she gave you the money back that you used to save the short sale but you can just push all of this chaotic weirdness over to the side and not have to worry about it anymore and just i would yeah i would talk to a title company and i deed it out of your name into hers and you go move but only if there's a clean break there yeah you have to you have to stay away your own. You have to have your life completely separate, completely clean. All the chaos stays over there on her side of the fence. Don't help with the roof. Anything around this mom figure is chaotic. I can smell it in the air.

She's a character. Mom's a character. And then you're sitting there trying to be a normal person in the middle of this character, and that's why I called y'all weird. So I couldn't figure out how you own the house and she's collecting the rent uh but now i'm starting to understand so yeah i think it is a good idea let's just get away from it but not because of the remodeling uh because of the chaos around your mom and this is never going to be it's always going to be the weird part of your life until you give it a little bit of distance and a little bit of a boundary.

All right, Casey's in St. Petersburg, Florida. Hi, Casey, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure, how can I help? So I've just been listening to your show for about a month now, and I understand a little bit about the Baby Steps, and I actually just signed up for the Financial Peace course through my church. Wow, great. To get started on that, yeah.

So my situation is that I am 41, single. I have $183,000 in student loan debt. You're a doctor or a lawyer? Nurse practitioner. Oh, good. That's even better. Okay. So you're making what, $110,000?

I'm making $135,000. $135,000. Great. I love it. What other debts have you got? I have $8,000 in private student loan debt. Okay. $5,000 in a parent plus loan for my daughter.

And I have, this is the really hard part to even say out loud, is I have $19,000 in credit card debt from medical bills and other things. Okay. What we're going to do is just do what we do in Financial Peace University. You're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans. You make a wonderful income. And as a nurse practitioner, you can also pick up some side gigs called ER on the weekends, and it pays really well. I want you working all the time. I want you spending no money, no restaurants, no eating out,

no vacations, no life. And now we're making $150,000, $160,000. We're going to live on about $40,000, and we're going to throw $100,000 at this student loan debt. And you're going to be 100% debt-free in around two years. But it's going to be two years of hell, so get ready. It'll be worth it, though, because you'll be free. That's exactly how you're going to attack this, with great focused intensity. Good question. I'm proud of you. Get at it. Holler if you need some more help.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of rip-offs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance, usually 10 to 12 times your income, which is the smartest,

most affordable way to protect your family. The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Zander and his team at Zander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years. So you know they'll be there when you need them. Zander is the real deal, and that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them, and you can too. Visit Zander.com for instant online quotes or for a more personal touch.

Give them a call at 800-356-4282. Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality is my cohost today. Thank you for joining us. Hey, guys, if you've been listening to the show and you're enjoying it, we could use your help. Literally. I mean, really, we need your help. It changes everything if you will subscribe on YouTube or follow

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It doesn't cost you a thing, and it's a way that, you know, we're not going to spend like $300 million on a football stadium to tell you we're here like so bad or something like that. Excuse me, I've got allergies. But, yeah, you don't want to do that. And so we're not going to do that. We're not like that. But you guys are our biggest champions to help us move this thing forward.

We need to create a crusade in America and have a renaissance in the art of living well, having the right career, the right mental health, the right ways of handling your money. I mean, we the people can do better. We don't need someone else to tell us how, but hey, we'll lead the charge if you'll help us. It's that simple. Kara is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Kara.

How are you? I'm doing well. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. How can we help? I currently have a job that works great for my family. It's a good income. I'm just not passionate about it. I've only been there about four months and historically I stay with my job a long time. I was just offered my dream job this morning, and I am nervous about discussing

that transition with my current employer because I haven't been there very long. So how do I go about that? Well, first of all, congratulations on getting offered your dream job. Let's not just cruise past that. How did that come about? Well, I have a history in cardio thoracic surgical icu nursing and i'm now a nurse practitioner and so i uh heard about the opening with the surgeon uh that i used to work with through a friend and i reached out and they were really excited that i reached out and uh what will you be making at the new job? $120,000. And what do you make now? $122,000. Okay. But I'm guessing there's room for growth here with this new job? Yeah. Every year, they're pretty consistent with making sure that they compensate you well.

Yeah. Okay. Well, first of all, congratulations. So my answer to this is always the same, and it's really simple. I want you to put yourself in your boss's position. And I want you to, in your mind, you just kind of role play that out. How would you want you to come say, hey, listen, I've only been here four months, but I got a past relationship with this surgeon. An opportunity was there. I reached out.

It's my dream gig. I'm sorry to put you in this lurch and do this at this point four months in, but this is an opportunity that I have to take. I mean, that's your reasoning. You don't have to explain that away, but how would you say that in a way that is humble, filled with gratitude, certainly sensitive to the fact that, hey, you're leaving only four months in, but you don't owe them a certain amount of time. What you owe them is your best, and I don't think you'd ever be able to give them your best if you turn this opportunity down. If you have that mindset, how would you want someone to handle it with you? That's the best way to go, because I know you're a person of character and a person of class. Did they pay you anything or pay moving expenses or a signing bonus

or anything when you took this current job? No, it's a better schedule for my family. No, the one you're in today. Oh. What we're seeing is are there any strings attached? The four-month-old job, do you have anything you owe them because they paid for you to move or they gave you a signing bonus and now you're going to take the signing bonus and run?

Nope. Okay. All right. So you just took a job, didn't cost them anything. And, okay. I'm with Ken. I think you just be sensitive to how would you want to be treated if you were them. If I'm them, I'm disappointed, but this great lady is going to go.

She got something that she likes better. She's going to go do it. There's not a lot I can do about it, so I'm going to be classy about it and say, well, I certainly understand. Are we going to do a two-week notice, or what are we going to do here? And, you know, just be honorable and kind and tell the truth and just be you know i think you say out loud i'm sorry i did not take this job intending to do this i this fell in my lap and it's something i've always wanted to do and i'm going to take it uh but it i do feel bad about the way this worked out, and I'm sorry.

Yeah, I do. Okay. I just wanted to, was there a more professional way to say that? But that sounds compassionate and professional. Sometimes profession gets in the way of people stuff. And I love the way Dave said that. I think he gave you a great perspective from the leader's perspective. Just be a good person, and you are a good person.

That's why you called. There's a sense of guilt. I get this call a lot on the ken coleman show dave and people feel guilty because they're good people but if you're not doing anything ethically wrong uh and you're not doing anything illegal then guilt shouldn't enter the equation so you understand you do you understand as a human that has good relational skills that you've greatly inconvenienced someone and actually cost them money that That is correct. Because when we put somebody on at Ramsey, it costs us quite a bit of money to onboard somebody.

Yeah. And then they turn around 90 days later, they're gone. It's a net loss for us. That's correct. But I also don't want them to stay here if they have their dream job. That's right. And further down the line, though, i don't want to be as an employer used you know i'm going to take this job and then keep looking correct and all over the

place anything if i can get 10 cents more i'm going to jump this is not now that i agree with that is a lack in i agree and job hoppers are very different that's not hopping that's just speculating i mean it's like right it's uh yeah that that's a that's wrong yeah but that's not hopping. That's just speculating. I mean, it's like, right. Yeah, that's wrong, ethically. But that's not what Kara's doing. No, no, no. Good job. Oakley's with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Oakley.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you so much, Dave, for having me on. I appreciate you guys. Sure. How can we help? Hey, so I just wanted some insight and wisdom from you guys on how a young couple like my wife and I could best attack the debt that we have, become debt-free with the situation that we're in, and ultimately pay off, again, everything that we have. How much debt do you have, not counting your house?

About a little under $50,000. Okay. And what do you guys make? Collectively about $115,000, $120,000. Okay. And so if you lived on $70,000 and made $120,000, that'd be $50,000 not counting taxes. You'd be out of debt in a year. You follow me?

Yep. We've got to count taxes so you're not going to make it in a year. But that's the math. Yeah. That's the math. You've got a good- so you're not going to make it in a year. But that's the math. Yeah. That's the math. You've got a good-sized shovel and a medium-sized hole. This is very doable. Now, what do we do?

We get on a written budget on EveryDollar and go to EveryDollar.com and sign up for slash budgeting and sign up for one of our free webinars on how to use the budgeting app to get things under control. And you and your wife sit down. You stop all investing. You take any money you've got that's not in retirement, and you throw it at this debt. We're going to list the debts smallest to largest. We're going to attack them with a great intensity, a great vengeance, like paint yourself blue

and wear a kilt, right? I mean, you're getting after it. You know what I'm saying? And so you knock it in the head. You knock it in the head. You knock it in the head. We're not going on mean, you're getting after it. You know what I'm saying? And so you knock it in the head. You knock it in the head. You knock it in the head. We're not going on vacation. We're not eating out. We're going to take our lifestyle down to scorched earth, and we're going to live on less than $70,000 so we can pay off $50,000 with a $120,000 income in around a year. And you can do that. What's your smallest debt?

I would be my, actually, it would be my student loans, about five grand. Okay, yeah, and so you're going to have that done in a little over a month. Boom, one done, and you just keep doing it. Just keep doing it. Keep hitting it. Keep hitting it. Keep hitting it. Keep hitting it, and that's the process. So, jump on everydollar.com slash budgeting and sign up for Rachel Cruz, Jade Warshaw, or George Camel doing a webinar for free. And get yourself into that EveryDollar app and get this thing going. You can do this. It's called the Debt Snowball.

List them smallest to largest and attack them in that order. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of the Ken Coleman Show, where he helps you have a better life at work and at your career and all of those kinds of things. So we're going to talk to you about your life and your money, as we always do. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Josh is with us in St. Louis, Missouri. Hey, Josh, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thank you so much for taking my call. I just want to take a second, and I appreciate all that you do. You've truly changed my life over the last few years. And I just want to take a second to say thank you. Sure. What's up? Awesome. My question is, how should I feel about a prenup? I know your stance on prenups and I know kind of, you know, extreme circumstances. And I believe kind of like my circumstance is kind of extreme on both ends. So a little bit about my background, I am currently 28. I followed the baby steps

through and through currently on three B I make about 300,000 a year. And that's divided up into about a hundred K in retirement, a hundred K for a down payment and, you know, 25 to 35,000 and just a bank account checking account for an emergency fund. So, um, my question, so I'm getting married in June to my wonderful fiance. Um, and her family is extremely wealthy. And although I do not, and her parents and grandparents are extremely wealthy. So they are, apparently I'm supposed to be signing a prenup obviously before the marriage and kind of, we're going to go over that. And my question to you is how should I feel about that as well as, you know, what to look for in a prenup. I don't necessarily know what questions to ask my lawyer.

And just one last thing is my income could be going from to $400,000, $500,000 plus over the next two to three years annually. So, yeah, that would be my question. Wow. How old is your fiancée? I am 28. Yeah. Wow. How old is your fiancée? She is, I am 28. She is 25. Does she have any money?

No. And you didn't ask her for a prenup? I have not, no. The prenup was for the potential inheritance. The prenup is for the potential inheritance. I have not had a sit-down discussion with her. When did the prenup is for the potential inheritance. I have not had a sit down discussion. When did the prenup discussion come up? After you were engaged? It was after we were engaged. Yeah. Yes. But I kind of had an idea like, I mean, they are, I don't know the specifics on

their net worth, but they are extremely, extremely wealthy. Yeah. Okay. So, all right. You know, the only way I know how to answer a question is, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? Okay. So, when my children were married, my net worth was in excess of $100 million already at that point, and none of them signed a prenup. And we didn't ask them to. None of my in-laws signed a prenup, and we didn't ask them to. Now, I have my estate plan set up to where certain things are controlled only by Ramsey Blood and trusts, so you can't get to them in the event of a divorce, thing number one. Thing number two, I'm just not that guy, so I'm not worried about it. This is God's money.

I'm managing it. I figure he can take care of it. I understand their concern. If you were, you know, if you're making $30,000 a year or something, it would be more of a concern. But it's, you know, frankly, it's a little bothersome if I'm in your shoes. Not enough to cancel the whole thing, but it's troubling that these people, obviously they want to protect what they built and make sure it goes to their kids. Let me ask you, here's another thing I would want to find out, and I don't know. In most states, the divorce stuff we've been involved in on the

financial side, an amount of inheritance generally in the event of a divorce goes to the person that inherited the money. They don't split it in most states. So if you inherit your mama's house and you get a divorce, you get your mama's house. You don't split it with your ex in most states. Okay. Now, I don't know Missouri law, and I'm not a lawyer. But I've experienced that in, you know, being called in in the middle of divorce situations where we're helping negotiate and all that.

I've experienced that to be the facts that the judge or the statutes award that that way. So I would learn about that in Missouri, number one. They may have that protection built into the law is what I'm saying. And then you've just got to decide how much you care about this issue. Um, because I don't think, um, and what this issue means, what does it mean to your relationship? What does it mean to the, uh, the family you are marrying? Cause you're marrying her and her family. And so, um, you know, it's really low class that this came up after you made a contract to get married.

They bring up, oh, but by the way, after you've gotten a contract to get married called getting engaged, we're going to add something to the terms of the contract after you've already signed it. That's low class. I'm curious, Josh, what does your fiancée think? How does she feel about this? Is she completely in line with the parents, or does it make her feel weird? What's going on here? To be honest, I mean, she's the oldest of four daughters total,

and they're an awesome family, super down-to-earth people, but they've never really had to work. You're not answering my question, and you're being really nice because you're a classy dude. I'm going somewhere with this. How does she feel about it? When it came up, what was her comment on this deal? She understands.

She understands it. What I was getting at is she just doesn't really have, she doesn't know. So she's okay with it. I mean, she, what I was getting at is she just doesn't really have, like, she doesn't know. So she's okay with it. My point is it wasn't a head tilt or, or, or a red flag or yellow flag. It was just like, oh, okay. Is that what I'm hearing? She does what she's told. Exactly. Okay. That helps. She listens to her parents. Yeah. She listens to her parents. Well, that makes this relationally a little bit more difficult. You know, had she had the same feeling, the yucky feeling you had,

I assume you have a yucky feeling about it? Or am I making the wrong assumption? Well, I just like go back to what you guys feel about prenups and that it is an extreme situation. But, like, I don't, you know. It doesn't feel good. Yeah, it doesn't feel good. Like, do I need to do anything on my end?

What else is going to come up after you're married that they tell her what to do? Well, the one other thing, exactly. Yeah, the one other thing is apparently they're, so the family are in development, so they're big into real estate and they build houses and have a lot of land. Another thing is apparently they're going to be building us a house and putting it in a trust to where we don't have a payment of land another thing is apparently they're going to be building us a house and putting it in a trust to where we don't have a payment apparently and yeah this has all been decided apparently wait a minute this is my freaking house there's no apparently i'm involved

in the decision i think this ought to be premarital counseling i bring it up with your fiancee up flares now i think the two of you need to sit down with a pre-marriage counseling. You're getting married in June. This family has problems with leaving and cleaving. That's right. This is the Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us, America. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. George is in Sarasota, Florida. Hi, George. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, moved with my family to Florida two years ago. Left my business in Washington state. And it's been there in Tacoma,

Washington for about five years. And in the last couple of years, trying to, um, you know, work remotely managing the business. It was a struggle. Uh,

we bought a piece of property here. We're planning to build. And, uh, you know, a month ago, the business burned down basically completely. And now I'm trying to figure out what to do next. Uh, as far as, um, maybe, you know, we saved up about $120,000 plus the land is worth about a hundred.

And, uh, we are thinking either to start something new, like the business that I was doing there, which is auto wrecking on the smaller scale, or for me to just get a job, be more stable, sell the land, and buy a house, which is what my wife wants us to do. And we have three little kids, five, three, and eight months old. I assume you had good insurance.

I had no insurance. Business was struggling, and yeah. So you just lost it. I lost it, yeah, pretty much. Some stuff survived. I would say like 90% was lost. So what's the land worth? Because you owned the real estate, right?

I did not own the real estate. My landlord had the insurance for the building. But the land I purchased here, we were planning to build on, is worth about $100,000. And we have $120,000 in savings. And you're renting. Yes. Okay.

What would you do right now if you could just snap your fingers with the skill set you have, knowing your industry that would pay you the most? What would you do right now if you could just snap your fingers with the skill set you have, knowing your industry that would pay you the most? What would that be? There are a couple options. I have maybe gone into consulting for a company, out of company, or I honestly worked for myself my whole life, 36. And I don't know. So do you have trade skills? I do have trade skills.

What are those? I used to work in a body shop as a tech, as a repair in cars. And I can get back into that. What was the actual business was what you said it was auto wrecking yes what's that mean so that's uh recycling um a junkyard it's like a junkyard yeah okay yeah but i was doing more of like a indoor auto wrecking which was parting cars out selling selling used auto parts. Okay.

So you would buy a totaled car, part it out, sell off the scrap, and sell off the parts. Correct. Indoors. And when you were in Tacoma and you all lived there and the business was flourishing, what did you make? What was your best year profit, taxable profit? About $150,000. Okay. All right. you make what was your best year profit taxable profit about 150 okay all right um what is it what does it take to set that up so you lost up there you lost tools and some inventory in the fire what's it take to what's it take to set what's it take to set the business up and get it running, not counting the land and the building?

It would take some tools, some equipment. Yeah, like 50 grand, 40 grand? Probably around there, yeah, 40. Yeah. Okay. What I would do if I were in your shoes is I would take some side gig hustles, hustle and grind to make a living, and I would go rent a warehouse somewhere, and I would sell your land. Now, if you sell the land, you got 220,000 bucks, right?

Correct. Okay, and we take $50,000 out of that, and now I've got $170,000 to put down on a house. Okay. Okay, and I'm going to start the business in a rental property, not an owned piece of real estate. This time I'm going to put insurance on it, and you know how to make $150,000 a year parking out cars on the inside. Inside of a warehouse, right?

Yes. And you can get to doing, you can turn a profit within 90 days of doing that, can't you? Yeah. Yeah. I figured you could. Because that's a quick turn business. You have the access to the supply of the totaled vehicles and do you have a distribution for the parts to part them out? You know how to get them sold right quick?

Because you weren't doing that on a local basis. You're doing that on a national basis. National and international, yeah. Yeah, the parting out is an Internet function, right? Yes, correct. Yeah, okay. This is not like some good old boy in Sarasota wanders in and buys a transmission from you. You're parting this sucker out. You're sending every little piece all over the dadgum world out of this thing.

And you know exactly what to do. You know the cars in your gut without even asking that have parts that are in high demand, so you know what to buy. That's correct. Yeah, because the parts on that particular vehicle will sell. The parts on the other vehicle won't sell, so I don't screw with it, right? That's 100%. Yeah.

This is his skills. It is. The issue that I want to address real quick is the relationship issue. Your wife wants you to get what she's calling a stable job. That means a salary. And so you've got to think through that what is her concern what's her big concern because i agree with dave you can absolutely do that i i would be working in some trades and and i'd ease into it a little bit based on what's happened but i want to know what she's

so worried about um she's worried about me being home and having less stress because I had to leave. Well, we decided to leave to Florida. I had to work from home. Why did you move to Florida? It was just something we wanted to do. Bull crap. Why did you move to Florida? Okay, so there is a little bit of politics. It's closer to my wife's family and better for our

kids. There you go. Okay, that's fair. That's a good answer. All right. Now, yes, so I'm with Ken. You know, you can start that. You can do the parting out on the side at first until you get it up and running but you can make more doing this than you can any trade job or any side hustle agreed yes this is the way you make your family the most money is reopen this business and run it but don't get in the real estate business be in the part business rent the dadgum warehouse from somebody let them deal with the real estate business. Be in the part business. Rent the dadgum warehouse from somebody. Let them deal with the real estate like you did before. This time, carry insurance on your stuff, for God's sakes.

But other than that, yeah. And so you can drop $50,000 there. You can set $170,000 aside for a house. Start talking about when we're going to buy the house. Actually, the truth is that you may want to rent for two years and establish a really good income as a self-employed person to qualify for a decent mortgage out of this particular business but you're not you know you got to get that business really rocking for two years to be able to use that money to qualify for the mortgage because you're going to have two years of self-employed income to prove

it out otherwise you're going to be making 60 or 80 doing a trade, and that's the base of the house you're going to buy. So if I'm you guys, if I can get my wife on board, I'm going to say, let's get a rental and have a two-year plan. I'm going to work my tail end off. We're going to get this business up and running, and then I'm going to quit the side job and run the business full-time. I'm going to come home at five o'clock, and I'm going to hire staff and people working for me so I don't have to be gone quit the side job and run the business full-time. I'm going to come home at 5 o'clock, and I'm going to hire staff and people working for me so I don't have to be gone all the time. And we run a business during normal business hours, and we grow it,

and we're going to make $250 because we're going to staff up, and we're going to hire some marketing people, some tech people, as well as some people to do the actual wrench turning. And let's get this thing up and going, and three years from you ought to be making serious money that's that and buy a house with 170 down or 150 down keep 20 as your emergency fund but yeah you're you know considering you had no insurance and considering you didn't have a good plan before you've got a lot of good options he really does in great financial shape minus the insurance issue. Yeah, exactly. And if you'd have the insurance, you'd have been another 50 ahead or whatever it is or more. Yeah, that's lesson learned. Lesson learned. This is The Ramsey Show.

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1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ben is in New York. Hi, Ben. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you doing? Great, man. What's up? I am currently living with my parents. I am 29. I've been saving for several years now, and I'm trying to figure out if I am ready to buy a house and if I can afford to, you know, get my own place at this point. Okay. How much do you have saved uh 100k okay uh what keeps you from leaving there

and buying a house um well i was mostly just trying to reach a certain i was trying to reach that goal of 100 100k save okay you got 100k 100k. I mean, common sense tells me you could go buy a house in Albany with 100k. You're 29 years old. How much do you make? About 70, 75. Cool. All right. I would definitely do it, like this week.

You think that's a good idea? Because I didn't want to rent. I didn't want to be throwing out money, you know? Dude, impulsive is not on your list of things to do. We don't have to worry about you being impulsive. You 29 you live at home you're not impulsive okay time to go yes go get you a house get you a life yeah for sure no i like it i love it man so how much do you make again 70 what do you do 70 i'm a working accounting okay you are risk averse aren't you man you're just hey um it's time man go out in the sun see the sunshine the uh the uh the you are a numbers dude i love you i'm a nerd i'm a numbers nerd too man so i'm right there with you ben you've

been crunching numbers and crunching numbers and crunching numbers and the problem with those numbers nerds is and you're you're one i'm one so i'm owning it with you we can get paralysis of the analysis and you have a bad case sure get a house get a life go go go don't worry i mean go have some fun man go get you know and and tell your mama you love her and you'll see her in five months. Yeah. I mean, she's going to be glad to get rid of you. I promise. I don't think she is, actually.

Well, I think that's part of the problem. He's an easy guy to live with. He's not a problem. He's not. But let me tell you something. It's not like he's having parties in the basement or something. We're seeing more and more of this, and I'm not picking on Ben, but I do want to say this. Ben, go buy a house.

There's two things that are going on. Number one, he's got the analysis paralysis situation, but he also, along with the fear of change, is how comfortable he is at mom's house. And that can just keep you, because you can justify staying by using the numbers. And I think you've got got to be realistic how much of this is i'm just afraid to kind of go out and start adulting that wasn't even a term 10 years ago and i hate saying it i'm a little embarrassed that i even uttered it yeah but i mean it's time for a lot of a great callback uh but yeah i just think we got too many young 20-somethings that are just terrified of change. And we've got to call that out. Let me just tell you, when you're out there on the wire and there's no net, it is terrifying.

It's also exhilarating. It's also what makes you a man or makes you a woman, my son. Yeah. So, yeah. Hey, you know, yes, Ben, you should go buy a house. And we're not picking on you, but you did open a can of worms, so we'll deal with it for a second. Here's the thing.

Moms and dads, you're not doing your kiddos favors when you leave them in the nest too long. An eagle that stays in the nest too long becomes known as a turkey. And, Ben, I didn't just call you a turkey. I'm talking about a concept here, okay? So, Ben, you're free from this. We love you. We're happy for you.

We're glad you got $100K. You need to buy a house in the next month, and you need to move immediately for your sake. And it's good. It's good. You know, we're there. But so our oldest, when she came out of school easy kid oh yeah denise to this day she's just a pleasant easy person and um and she moved back to our she's the only one of them that moved back to our house after college and uh she was waiting on a roommate situation to develop so

she could go get the the first rental property right and um so she's living there for about uh two months and we said okay that's probably enough and she's like what i'm like you know you you got it you got to get this done because not because we don't like you she was not in our way she's like bent she could live there and we wouldn't have noticed she'd been there until she 29 we wouldn't have noticed but uh we're like until she was 29. We wouldn't have noticed. But we're like, no, you are missing out on life when you're 22, 23, 25 years old, and you live in your mama's basement. You're missing out on life. And so you need to go be somebody.

And it breaks our heart because we love you. We like having you around. But it's not about us. It's about you and your development as a person, your emotional, your psychological, your spiritual development, your financial development you become a different person when you buy your own eggs and pay your own light bill and fold your own clothes or don't but they're your clothes yeah and that it just changes there's a little thing happens there a little different thing and again and for god's sakes we're not picking on you okay we're not you called up.

You're a nice young man. We appreciate you. None of this is aimed at you. But I'm just telling you, folks, moms and dads, you are stunting their growth. 100%. Reminds me of that movie with Matthew McConaughey, Failure to Launch. It was a horrible movie. I don't know.

I think it's a great rom-com. Matthew has done some really good work in his life, and that is not on the list. This is exciting, folks. Dave Ramsey with a strong opinion on a rom-com. I never thought I'd see the day. This is great. If your co-star is Terry Bradshaw, I'm just saying. You're right.

The quality of the script writing was low. I'll give you that. But when Stacey wants to see it, I say, okay. Yeah, well, yeah, there is that. I'm blaming it on her. Yeah, I would. I'm blaming it on you. Joe is I would. I'm blaming it on you. Joe is in Louisville, Kentucky.

Hi, Joe. What's up? Hi, thanks for having me, guys. How are you? Better than we deserve. How can we help? Good. So just quick background.

Last year I left a job that I was at for about 15 years. Uh, since then, um, been struggling to, uh, you know, find a job, uh, to make what I need to make to pay the bills. And I'm primarily using job boards and they just seem to not be going anywhere. That's horrible. Yeah. Resources out there, I guess. What were you making? Um, making about $130,000 a year. Doing what? It was commissioned, so it kind of went up and down. Sales and management. Okay, and why did you walk out the door without having anything to go to? Well, they had a new ownership come through, and one of the first changes they made was pay for the regional managers. So I ended up was on the pace for about $70,000 after they took over.

Okay, so they cut your pay in half and you said stick it. Okay, I got that. Yeah. So have you been working? Have you been working? Yeah, I have been working. I'm currently making right now about $55,000 a year. So do you know how to sell? Yes, I can sell.

What were you selling before when you were making $130,000? It was furniture. Wholesale or to customers? I mean, or to consumers? I'm sorry? Yeah, to customers. Okay, I got customers. Okay. So retail customers. Wow.

I got to tell you, my mom sold furniture, was a manager of a large furniture chain for 35 years. And if you can make that kind of money in furniture, those margins aren't that high. You've got a lot of options in front of you right now, a lot. And you've got to stop job boarding, and you've got to start having coffee with people that you know, civic clubs, churches. You know a lot of people. And look, you can sell anything. You're not a guy who's stuck in an industry. In other words, you aren't just effective in the furniture industry.

You know a product. You know a service. Not only can you sell it, Joe, but you let a team of people. Medical device sales, you can make two and a quarter. Easy. Easy. So I've looked at some medical, like, sales jobs. I just feel like, you know, I don't feel like it's, you know,

qualified, I guess, for it. Do you just apply anyway? Yes. There aren't doctors making the sales. There are salespeople making sales to doctors. Yeah. I got a friend who's a former college football player. I'm not knocking football players.

He's advising surgeons on orthopedic devices in the operating room. Not because he's a genius, because they trained him on the devices. Dave's right. You don't need anything other than a willingness to learn and basic intelligence, and you have both of those in droves. Hey, we're going to send you Ken's book, From Paycheck to Purpose. I want you to go on his website and learn his... Oh, no. Also, we're going to send you Proximity Principle. That's what he needs. His other number one, because that's what you do instead of job boards. It'll help you do what you're supposed to do. Yeah. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Andre in Indiana. I'm being managed out of my job at my current employer. When I realized what was happening, I got ahead of it and have turned in my resignation so I won't have a termination on my employment record. I have several interviews lined up and I'm not worried about finding another position. My question is, how should I approach obtaining a letter of reference from my current employer should I need it? Well, you're going to approach it now before you leave the building, number one.

Number two, you're going to approach it with some gratitude and humility and just say, hey, I appreciate this opportunity to be here, and I would love if you feel comfortable being a reference for me and give me a reference letter upon request. Are you comfortable with that? It's just a man-to-man conversation or man-to-woman conversation, and that's about all you can do there. Hopefully, you've left well. We don't know what the situation here is, but I'm such best situation for you, leaving well and not burning that bridge is always the right way to go because you have to assume that any future employer is going to call your past employer. And so humility and gratitude and class would be the three ingredients in the ask. And, by the way, with every remaining second you have at that place before you leave, act with class.

Yeah. Smile. Act with class. Do everything. So most employers, Andre, do not give references on formers because of the liability. And so we don't. If someone calls here, the only thing we'll confirm is that they worked here between this date and that date and that's the only thing we'll tell you we won't say whether they're awesome i

didn't realize that that's good for me to know i did not i've heard of that i didn't know that because um we don't want to get sued right because we referred them or told or told somebody you know this guy's he's he wasn't good right and then you turn around and you get all this other stuff on you. So, yeah, we just, and that's not that unusual in the employment market, we've learned. When we're trying to check references, it's tough to get people to actually give you a reference. I want to sidestep, Ken, I want you to coach for a second here,

and I want to join you in it. Let's pretend that Andre, I'm going to make up something for andre i don't know anything about him so this is all pretend sure okay let's pretend he's 26 and this is his second job and he says i'm being managed out of my job now if you were working at Ramsey we don't manage people out of a job we do manage them if they're not competent we're gonna talk to you about it and help you work on your competence we do manage you and talk to you about it and create uncomfortable conversations if you're not handling your relationships with others inside the building well if you're being a twerp okay and so um being the being the potential employer of someone in this situation uh

i i wouldn't take the position I'm being managed out. Yeah. Unless you've got a pure political situation going on. I mean, just because someone tells you to suck it up, buttercup, and get better, that is not being managed out. That's correct. So if I were coaching Andre, I would ask a lot of detailed questions. What does that actually mean?

Yeah. And to the best of my ability, be able to discern, well, you're not being managed out, or maybe you are. Now, what it's going to look like in this case, if we're assuming what he's saying, is that someone is basically making you as uncomfortable as possible, not in a way of leading you for growth and having an uncomfortable conversation with your growth in mind, but actually being a turd to you to get you to quit because they don't want to fire you. Does that happen?

It does. Yeah, that's bad leadership. That's bad leadership. So I would be asking enough questions to find out what's really going on. And to your point, if they are holding you to a standard that they hired you to keep, you aren't being managed out. You're being held accountable for what they're paying you for. So I would be diving into what's really going on and then coaching from there.

And in many cases, and I'm going to say this. Just because you're uncomfortable. That's right. Doesn't mean you're being managed out. That's correct. Or held to a standard. Right. And so what we've got to determine, we're seeing this a lot with the younger generation, accountability is really, really hard.

We had one a while back that just couldn't seem to get to work on time, wander in an hour late. And we say, you know, well, you're creating stress by, yeah, that's kind of like what we do here. We create stress for you. You need to be here on time. If that's stressful, just suck it up. I mean, that's, I know what we do here we create stress for you need to be here on time if that's stressful just suck it up i mean that's i i know i'm sorry about your anxiety get your butt to work on time okay this is what we do and so uh and that's about how it would sound i mean we might be a little kinder than that but you know it's a pretty simple thing we open the building at a certain time and you need to be here by then yeah you have to reframe that it's not creating stress right they say i'm not creating stress but it's like anyone that ever told me i'm

not perfect in the apple of my mother's eye now is managing me out exactly that's or that's just a bunch of crap that's what i'm saying yeah okay so now there's two possibilities you're you're being that i'm not saying that andre is but, but be careful when you're using a phrase like I'm being managed out. You are taking the position of victim, and you might not be the victim. That's right. That's what I'm saying. You might be the victim. You might be a bunch of political junk, and they're moving the chess pieces around,

trying to knock you over and get you out because they don't want you there, and they don't have the backbone to just fire you. You know, the metaphor I would use here, Dave, is are you being coached or are you being mistreated? There you go. And a coach, and I usually return to sports because I grew up playing sports. Discomfort does not mean you're being mistreated. Yeah. You know, I watch these NFL training camps.

These are millionaires. And the coach is pulling them off the field, and they are coaching them up. They're getting out those little Microsoft pads on the sideline, and they're showing these young quarterbacks that are franchise quarterbacks. Here's what you did wrong on this interception. That's not mistreating that kid. That is coaching that kid on what they expect of them

because they're paying them millions of dollars a year. And the same metaphor holds true in the workplace. Is your leader coaching you or are they mistreating you? Yeah, that's true. There's a wide gap. That's exactly what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying because we spend a lot of time and money to hire you and get you in here.

That's right. And so we're not going to manage anybody out. Yeah, it costs you more to replace them. Exactly. We're going to try to help you make it. That's exactly right. But that may involve discomfort. And it should.

Usually doing something you've never done before or something you suck at and you've got to get better is discomfort. It's not comfortable. It's outside your comfort zone. A quarterback feels really uncomfortable when he runs off the field after throwing an interception because there's 75,000 people that are mad at him and his head coach. But guess what?

That's the price of admission. That is the ticket to the B&M. So step it up. So, again, I think that's a good clarification. Are you being coached? And if you are, expect discomfort because that's what's called what called growth that's right and you're moving up and in if you're being mistreated then you're being managed out but either one of those could fall under this phrase i'm not i don't like the phrase is what i'm saying it feels very victim i felt the same thing when i saw it you know yeah

and it but it could be that he's just he might be the victim of some toxic politics. It very well could. I mean, that happens all the time. There's no question they're bad leaders. Because spineless leaders will do stuff like that that's passive-aggressive rather than just fire somebody. That's right. So you don't have that trouble here.

We're going to tell you this is what we're doing. If it doesn't work, we're going to tell you it didn't work. We're not scared. We're not afraid. And we're not mean, and we're going to tell you it didn't work. We're not scared. We're not afraid. And we're not mean. And we're not unkind. So, hey, guys, for all of you listening to the show on YouTube or the podcast, it's about to end. You can get the entire show, including the next segment, on the Ramsey Network app, which is free.

Download it in the App Store or Google Play. You can get the full video or audio podcast production either one of the whole thing but certainly the last segment every day so click in the note show notes and check it out we'd love to have you join us the ramsey network app in the app store the whole thing's free we're not charging a thing for this this is the ramsey show live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman number one best-selling author host of the ken coleman podcast on the ramsey networks

is my co-host today. So you want to talk about jobs or careers, well, he's here, and we can work that in for sure. Because we talk about all parts of your life here on the show, and how we can make it all work together so you get a better one. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Rob's in Los Angeles. Hey, Rob, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys. Absolutely love the show. So, big fan, follow most of your advice. My question is about romance and how to keep it alive with the joint bank accounts. So, my wife and I recently got married and we're doing what you suggested, having one centralized checking account. But my question is, what do you do on Valentine's Day or her birthday? I don't particularly want her to know how much I spent on flowers

or if I take a look for a meal, you know, how much it costs. You'll get over that. The longer you're married, the less that matters. Because actually, Sharon and I go out to dinner for Valentine's after 43 years, and we play guess the check before it comes. We want to see who can guess the closest to what it's going to be. So it'll work out. Now, I'm messing with you, but that's a sweet, wonderful question.

Thank you. Okay. So I guess there's a couple. I mean, we just need a mechanical way to fix it. So you've got some money that is spent towards towards her but she doesn't know what it is and so i guess around valentine's day you could as an example around her birthday or something like that you could increase your rob spending account because you should have a his and her account for blow money right yeah we have a guilt-free account yeah guilt-free account okay

let's increase your guilt-free account around that time, and she knows that we've increased the amount, but she doesn't know what you spent on the particular items then. Got you. Okay. But, I mean, she's not going to be okay with you dropping $5,000 out of budget. Okay? But you don't want her to know if it's a 200 flower or a 300 flower right

exactly that's my point yeah yeah i understand the fun you know financial infidelity etc but yeah there's a happy media here yeah i agree yeah so just just build it up during that time and it's just kind of a stated thing i'm i get a little more guilt-free money because i'm taking care of your birthday out of that shut up you know right and so that's how that's what i would do i don't know ken what do y'all do i that's what i do i tell stacy especially around christmas time i go hey listen we we plan out a budget for the kids and then i go all right this is a range for us and i said you know you just you know just not worry about it and and she loves that and and your wife is going to love that too because you've had the forethought to say all right, I'm going to do a little extra over here and it's not going to be crazy.

And then she'll know all the details once she gets the gift. And so I think the thought that counts around the gift is great, but I think the thought to say, hey, we're going to stay controlled, we're going to stay disciplined, but you know what? I want to do a little extra for you. And I think as long as you're communicating and you're disciplined, the romance is very much there. I love the heart of the question.

But you guys communicating well allows for these month-to-month changes when you've got a Christmas, a Valentine's, and a birthday. Yeah, exactly. Because in February, we have Sharon Palusa. I know. Well, this is a big month for Sharon in February because of her birthday. Well, our first date was February 6th. Her birthday is the 8th. And then there's Valentine's Day on the 14th so the whole freaking month is Sharon Belusa

I mean she just gets it's like ridiculous so yeah budget for February so wow because you know it's a good month for sure I've got a little category it's SWI Sharon wants it uh-huh you know so there it is so right it's one of my budget categories and it works it works it's good is that also the same could you also call that same envelope sharon gets it well that's the same that's the point yeah sharon wants it sharon gets it yeah swi sgi that's it yeah i have to give it all a full acronym like we're in the military yes i love it good for you well done well done rob charlotte's with us in west palm beach florida hi charlotte how are you hi dave how are you better than i deserve how can i help um i have a question so during covid we

decided to put some money in stocks and now we made enough on the stock market to pay off our house my husband really wants to because flor Florida is going crazy with insurance and taxes, and it's just going crazy down here. So he really wants to take the money out of the stocks and pay off the mortgage. How do you feel about that? What do you want to do? I don't know. I'm torn because the stocks I want to go up and I watch it go down.

But we pay $2,500 a month on our mortgage. How much is your balance on the mortgage? About $100,000. Okay. How much you got in stock value? About $120,000. Okay. Let's pretend your house was paid for and you didn't have any stock.

Like you did what he wants to do. Okay. Would you go borrow on your house to buy stock? No. Same thing. We want to move. No, no, no. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.

You drove. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. You drove right past that. It's the exact same thing. If you had a paid-for house and no stock, go borrow a mortgage to put the money in the stock market. It's just reverse-engineered. It's the exact same thing

as you taking this stock and paying off this house before close of business today, which is what I would do. I have never in 32 years of doing this radio show had anybody call me back and go, I paid off my house and I hate you, Dave Ramsey. That has never happened. There's a lot of people hate me for a

lot of stuff but that's not one of them okay pay off your house today okay do it by the end of the week have a little mortgage burning party with a little dance and stuff in the backyard on friday night pay it off this week you sound like like him. He's just ready. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Sorry, Charlotte. He wins the argument.

He's right, and you're going to love it. I figured that. I figured that. Thank you very much. You called me and asked that question. You knew it. Yeah. That's why I asked. I was like, what do you want to do?

Because when you lead with the my husband once, we know where that's going. And, you know, it's funny for her. She's kind of reconciling that. She's like, I'm watching it go up, go go down but she really wants to ride that wave well they made some money they did and she's going i like the way that feels i want to do that again that's exactly what you do is you take the 2500 a month that you don't have anymore round that up to 3500 and go if you're going to want to if you want to do single stocks i don't i don't like the risk of it right but uh if you want to do that then throw some money in there and just watch that money grow and now you got a paid for house in

the backdrop that's exactly what i would do you breathe different when your house is paid for the air goes more deeply into your lungs it is a physical manifestation of peace financial peace two words that don't go together like airline service right that's exactly it's just you know delta what's that mean it means when you look it up in the greek we're probably not going that's what it means so i mean oh ouch deep deep the airline joke financial peace yeah well but here's the investment reality too too, though, Dave. It's that that $100,000 in equity is no risk compared to the $120,000 of the stock. Because that could go up and down, but your house is not going to do that. Not in Florida.

Hello. You could get Biden reelected or Trump elected or the world could come to an end, which is probably similar. At this rate, maybe that's the best option. C. None of the above. Yeah, I know where I'm going. It's a lot better there. This is The Ramsey Show.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate you hanging out. I'm Dave Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate you hanging out. I'm Dave Ramsey. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Annie is with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Annie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. Hi, what's up? Well, thank you for taking my call. Um, so I am just looking for advice on how to talk to my teenage foster son about money in a way that isn't shameful towards his like reality, I guess. In a way that isn't what towards his reality? Like making him feel shameful. Shameful. Oh, I see.

Making him feel bad. Yeah. Okay. So he's coming from a poor environment and you don't want to make him feel bad for that. Thatful. Oh, I see. Making him feel bad. Yeah. Okay. So he's coming from a poor environment and you don't want to make him feel bad for that. That's good. That's sweet. Good for you. Okay.

Um, how old is he? He's 15. And I can give you like an example of something if that would help. Sure. Okay. Okay. So like for christmas these options are like crazy expensive things and we're like you know we don't we don't have the money for that we

can do this instead and um he's like well like i know you have money and it's like yeah but you know we have to buy groceries and all these things and he's like we'll just swipe your food card like well we don't have a food card and he's talking about just swipe your food card like well you don't have a food card and he's talking about like snap so like things like that like he doesn't understand i don't know if that makes sense yeah yeah it does um and how long have you been has he been with you um almost two Almost two months. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, if he's been in and out of foster, he may be manipulating you. Okay? That's a possibility with that. It may not be simple ignorance.

It may be a sense of, I'm going to get what I can get before they dump me back out into the system. Okay? So beware of that and be careful with that because a teenager that's been in and out of that system, they know the plan and they know how to work it. And so you've got to be loving and kind. It's not a matter of shaming someone,

but be very aware that he may not care about your goals or your money. He may just think, I better, you know, I can get this expensive gift and then when I'm gone, I'll leave with those tennis shoes or that jacket or whatever it is he's wanting, okay? So that's a possibility. But all that aside, we still need to try to minister to him, try to help him while he's under your care, and that's so that you still got the right question you're asking. But having said that, then what do we do? do well i would just sit down and say hey you know i'm not sure if you care about this but um but let me show you how this stuff works and show him a budget that this is the money comes in and every dollar has an assignment and we we spend some of it on the necessities of life, food, shelter, clothing,

transportation, utilities. We spend some of it on enjoyment, and we invest some of it for the future. And that's what has enabled us to be in a financial position to be able to bring you into our home as a foster child and feed you. And so we have to manage the whole thing not just do we have the money for that gift and and let him look at it holistically over your shoulder so when our oldest one turned 12 i sat down back in those days we did a paper budget and i had her look at the budget with me and and and then actually, back in those days we wrote checks. You remember what those were.

But she would write out the checks and I would sign them. And I'll never forget, she's like 11 or 12 years old, and she's a sweet, sweet kid. And she's looking at this and she goes, the electricity is $340, Dad? And I'm like, yeah, that's just for one month, honey. She goes, oh, man, I see why Mom's yelling at us to keep the door closed all the time. Unbelievable.

And turn off all the lights. I now know why she's saying that. I'm like, oh. So she related it, you know this this request for you know to behave and not act like you're raising a barn to she finally related it to an actual economic thing and she went good lord because this kid probably has no idea what your electric bill is he may not care but he has no idea what the electric bill is and so when he actually sees that and you go that's why when

you are staying with us it's warm in this house because we pay that bill and so i i would i would introduce him to the whole picture of generosity of future thinking called saving and investing of uh making sure necessities are taken care of before we do luxury things. And then we may not choose to buy expensive gifts so that we can do these other things. And he might, you know, come away going, oh, that's how rich people do it. And Annie, I would recommend you don't commit to this long term. And because I understand the volatility sometimes of these situations, but if I were you, I would come up with a small amount, not a huge amount of money.

What's small? Give me an example. Well, I don't know their budget. What do you guys make? What do you guys make income-wise? Like a year? Yeah. Around 85.

Okay. Let me just say maybe you do this for two months and take $100, okay? And I would sit down and explain the concept of give, save, and spend and living on 80%. Just as an example, say, hey, I want to teach you some basic concepts. And I would say, here's what we're going to do. For two months, $100 may be too much. Maybe it's 50 bucks, okay? The point is I would give that child a chance to make some mistakes. I teach them how to do it. Say,

okay, if we're going to give you 50 bucks for a month, you're 15, 50 bucks. I think you should save 10%. I think you should give 10% to somebody you choose who you want to give that to. And the rest of it is, we're going to let you just spend that how you want to with your friends or whatever. And just I want you to learn how to manage this money because long term and then show them based on a $30,000 salary, a $60,000 salary. I would try to teach with some real money knowing that you've budgeted for it. If he blows it, he blows it, but he learned something through failure. I just think that's a valuable experience for some of these kids to realize how quickly money gets spent.

Because let me tell you something. This kid goes out with only $50. Well, $100, it's going to go quick if they want to go to a restaurant with their buddies. Our kids are learning that with the money they've made, Dave, working. They realize how quick it is. Oh, you want to go to the little place with your friends? Oh, yeah, an appetizer, a meal. Oh, you're to go to the little place with your friends? Oh, yeah, an appetizer? A meal?

Oh, you're broke. Yeah. And, Annie, you know, I guess one other thing, because this is great, such a great question. Thanks for letting us go off on it. I would tell him, say, you know, when I first started my adult life, I didn't have any money. And so what I did, though, was i started looking at what rich people do because rich people handle money that's how they get rich and so here's what i learned from the rich people they always give some they always save some and they're always wise with their spending

and um and then you could implement what ken's talking about in that setting. And you can just teach him, you know, this is what I learned. I learned if someone's doing something well, you can emulate, copy what they are doing, and then you can be like them. If you want to be skinny, eat what skinny people eat, right? If you want a great marriage, talk to people who have been married 67 years, not 67 minutes. And, you know, let's learn how they did that. And let's emulate successful people that's called in business best practices and you could tell teenagers this and they get it

um and so uh you know i want i want to do rich people stuff with money because i got a good chance of being rich people if i do poor people stuff with money i got a good chance of being rich people. If I do poor people's stuff with money, I got a good chance of being poor people. Because the only reason they're poor is not outside variables. Some of it is outside variables. Some of it's oppression, bad systems, bad thinking. There's a lot of things that cause people to be poor that aren't their fault. But some of it is behavior. And so the only one you can control is behavior, and that's how we meet people that used to be poor and now are rich, because they controlled the only thing they could control, which is their behavior,

and to not spend everything they make on Friday night. Thank God it's Friday. This is not a rich people saying, right? And so they think in 10 in tenure blocks of time, not the attention span of a gnat. And so these are things you can teach him and talk to him about. And it's not about, there's no shame in any of that. Would never shame someone for where they're from. Because I've been there too. But I want to talk about behaviors that are going to get us to a better place.

This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for being with us. Chaz is with us in San Antonio, Texas. Hi, Chaz. How are you? I'm doing pretty good. My question is about what is the best route I could take to become an airline pilot? And if you'll allow me, here's some quick details about my situation.

So I am in my freshman year of engineering college, and my plan is to get a four-year mechanical engineering degree that my parents are willing to pay for. And with that degree, I'll get a job and then pay for flight school with my own money without going into debt. And then on top of that, I will have a engineering degree to fall back on in the case that I can't fly in the future for whatever reason. However, I'm starting to rethink this plan because I'm sure you've heard there's a massive pilot shortage right now. And I think it might be a good opportunity for me to skip college and go straight into the airlines. And I would get lots of benefits going in immediately. I would be in a hot job market and I would also start my aviation career earlier, which would get me something called seniority, which is very, very important in the airlines. It's basically the pilot who's been there the longest, has the most job security, the best pay. Hey, Chaz.

They're just in a really good position. Chaz, a couple things. Number one, you can't just go into being a pilot. You're still going to have to fork out a lot of money for the training, but I've got a better solution for you. And this is not my opinion. This is from a guy who is one of the top pilots for FedEx, flies all around the world, flies their jumbo jets, met him over the holidays, had coffee with him. Here's what he said. I asked him, what would you say to somebody who asked this question because i get this question a lot he said and this is a guy who was a navy

pilot he said i would have a young person go into the military and you're going to get paid for the training and and you're not there's no debt and they're going to train you as a pilot and you're going to have the hours you're going to have the hours you get everything paid for and they pay you they pay you and you come out of the military, and now you're qualified and ready to go. So skipping college, if you wanted to fast forward, then go right into the military. But if my mom and dad are going to pay for a mechanical engineering degree, and that was a fallback plan, that's not a bad plan, and then go into the military out of school. So I would say those are the two best

options. If I were you, based on what I know, that's what I would do. Okay. One thing I can tell you is it may be wrong information, but I'm pretty sure it's correct. I talked to an airline pilot that lives in my neighborhood and he told me not to go to the military route because they can get you all the hours that you need, but they can't actually get you the ratings that you need for the airlines, which is something that you're going to have to get yourself, which will still cost money. And my parents are willing to help me pay for the fast-track school to the airline partially. Okay, well, that's new information. Your friend is correct, your neighbor's correct,

but still you're advancing yourself in the military without having to come out of pocket. But if mom and dad are willing to pay cash, not go into debt for the training, then that's an option. So, Chaz, if you fast-track with them, you go to fast-track school, what's that cost? How long does it take? Since I already have my private pilot's license, it would cost $80,000, and my parents would pay for that partially.

I'm assuming about half, maybe a little bit less than that. And how long does it take? It would take nine months, and I could get into the airlines very soon. And one thing I would like to mention is the reason I would want to do this is to get into the market immediately because the pilot shortage is right now. Sure, but who's paying for the other $40,000? If mom and dad are paying about half? Oh, me?

I would be going into that $40,000 a day. Okay, but that's not what you said earlier. So now the story's changing. It was mom and dad can pay for the flight in Fast Track. Well, they can't. They can only pay half. Well, I said partially, partially, not entirely. I would be going into debt.

Yes, sir. Well, we would not recommend that you go into debt for this when you don't have to. And here's the thing. When you come out with a four-year degree in mechanical engineering, we're talking about $90,000 to $100,000 a year. Exactly. When you come out at $80,000 worth of flight school, you're flying American Eagle for 35 000 a year yeah um you know you know i don't

give a crap about the pilot shortage honey they ain't putting you in a 727 when you're 19 freaking years old and you just come out of school and wet behind the ears they don't do that yeah okay the guys in the big jets are old and they don't put the boys in there. They put the little boys in the American Eagle, little Canadian jets. I fly with them. I see what they're doing. I got socks older than these guys that are flying these things and they don't pay them anything. So you need to check your facts on actual entry on what you do get paid coming in because you're going to fly a regional at best prop or jet and um and you don't

make any money at the start even if there is a pilot shortage yeah uh the pilot shortage is a shortage on the top end stuff not people getting paid no money doing and if you go the military route you can save up the money for your instrumentation and all that not to mention i i wish i knew this i'll know this next time. But I also wonder if the GI Bill does not maybe go towards that certification and that education as well. I would tend to believe it does, but I'm not 100% sure. I think it probably would.

I think it would. I'm just not 100% sure. So, therefore, no debt. Chas, let me just tell you, working with doing what I'm doing for 30 years, pilots are, it's a different thing that activates in people when they decide they want to be a pilot. Flying an aircraft, you've got your private, you know this, is addictive. And you guys, you lose your minds in order to get to fly an airplane. You're willing to jump through and do anything just to get to fly an airplane

because it's just so stinking much fun and you know people do ridiculous things so don't trade a hundred thousand dollar job for a thirty five thousand dollar job and forty thousand dollars worth of debt uh don't don't make that trade yes i please don't just because of this so uh people get there's something about the pilot thing that people they they it's all the only other one is like becoming a chiropractor they spend two hundred thousand dollars to do that you spend the same two hundred thousand dollars you'd have been an md right you know yeah and instead you're making forty five fifty thousand dollars a year as a chiropractor and it makes no sense at all but they get their head gets all foggy with the the process of doing it or whatever

i don't know i don't know what it is it's different well they justify it's different than other careers yeah well i just it's a good career it's a good i'm gonna make good money so we justify it and again i there's not good money on the start there's not it's not good money there's not there's not at all because there's a line of these guys that are addicted to flying yeah so yeah there is a pilot shortage but it's a certain kind of pilot, and it's not entry level. I wish you could have heard this guy, Dave. He was a Navy pilot, straight out of Annapolis, Navy pilot for 20 years,

flew combat missions, and now he's flying the biggest jet FedEx has. And he was like, tell people, tell young people, they have a great career if they go the military route and they're not going to go into debt and they're going to be able to pay for it he was very emphatic about it well yeah you fly with an air you fly with a pilot and you know they're military you can tell when they land that's right they don't they're not worried about soft right that is true they put them down oh you did yeah that guy was he was navy yeah yeah that guy yeah that was air force yeah yeah oh this guy he didn't fly he didn't fly

he didn't fly luxury charters i don't think right right well they land on an aircraft carrier i mean i guess yeah unbelievable talking about that in the middle of the ocean chas go live your dream buddy but don't turn it into a nightmare that's all we're saying great So if you were my son, I would tell you to finish your mechanical engineering degree and then work on your pilot stuff, and I would consider the military route. If you're my son, that's what I'd tell you to do. So that's the summation of the call. We appreciate you calling in. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Started a long time ago when people started saying, live your dream, live your dream, live your dream, Ken, and people will then justify that and turn their dreams into a nightmare if they're not real careful. So true. And it happens all the time. It's the trap. And the trap is this, I want it now. And I've never seen a dream that was worthy that you got now or that you got fast. Change your mindset on that, and then you'll be able to avoid the temptation. Philosophy 101, Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day, Psalm 128, 2, You shall eat the fruit of the labor of your hands. You shall be blessed, and it shall be well with you. James Jordan, the father of Michael Jordan, said, If you work hard, you will get the things you want. Pretty simple. Yeah. Can't disagree with that one.

Can't disagree with the results from his son either. That's right. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. He wrote the book From Paycheck to Purpose. He is one of America's leading experts on careers, on jobs, on finding purpose in your work, and we are talking about all of that today. The phone number 888-825-5225. Steve is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Steve. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you, guys. How are you? Better than we deserve, sir. What's up?

So I've got a question about labor crisis. That's what you guys are talking about. And, boy, I can feel it. Labor crisis is affecting me, too. I own an accounting firm, and we did an acquisition of another accounting firm maybe about a year ago. And with that acquisition, brought over a couple employees. These employees are really good workers. They do great work. The clients

like them a lot, but they don't fit with the long-term vision of the company. They don't fit culturally. They've actually undermined me with some processes, even to some clients in a couple of situations. But with the labor shortage, I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what to do here. They're not good long-term, but they but they're great short term why are they not a culture fit why can they not adapt to your culture you bought their company yeah we bought their company and they were a great accounting firm for 30 years and they did not change their processes one bit in 30 years i know why can these people not adapt and fit into your place? Why is it impossible for them to do that? I don't think they want to.

I think they like the way they used to do it better. Yeah, but I don't think they understand that it's getting ready to cost them their job. I don't know if they understand that either. I don't either. And that's a leadership thing. That's on you. Okay. What they don't like is change.

Based on how you described it, I don't understand. Well, they're accountants. Yeah, right.. What they don't like is change based on how you described and understand. Well, they're accountants. Yeah, right. But most humans don't like change, but you got to understand that it's not that they don't want to, it's that they're scared to death of the change. Now, as Dave said, if you lay it out for them and go, you have to change, I'm going to be patient. I'm going to show you how to change. And then they buck up. Well, then they don't want to, but you don't know that they don't want to change. We do know that change is scary for everybody and certainly for accountants. So here's how it would sound if it was at my place. Okay. We'd sit down in private, not in front of anybody else, very calmly and quietly, no raised voices,

no swearing, no, nothing like that. And we just say, listen, when we brought you guys in, I, as your leader, made a mistake and I need to apologize for that. The mistake I made was I did not communicate to you how important it is that you're loyal to this team and to me, how important it is that you fit in with the culture. Even if you do a good job, you're going to have to do those things in order to stay. And I sure hope we can work this out because you really do good work. And I didn't do a good job on the front end of telling you that doing good work is not the only thing you have to do to be here.

And I'm making up for that today because I want to be very clear with you. Doing good work is not enough to let you stay here. We're also going to have to be loyal to me. If you have a disagreement with me, you never undermine me with a customer again, or that'll be your last day because we don't do that here. If you have a disagreement with me, that's fine. I could be wrong and you're welcome to disagree with me, but you're going to do it with me in private, not in front of a customer. That's embarrassing for you, for me, and for the customer. And we don't do that, period. That's a real breach of ethics. Now, number two, we as accountants are not a people who like change, but change is coming,

and we have to embrace some of it. We have to add new technologies. We have to embrace some of it in order to stay up with the times. Otherwise, we will be bought by another firm. That's what happened to your old firm, and it's not going to happen to us because we're going to make the adaptations and change as part of it. And we're all going to go through the pain of that. It's painful for me, too. I don't like change either. I'm a freaking accountant.

But I know I have to do this, and you do, too. So embracing the change, embracing the new processes, and being loyal are part of doing a good job here. Simply doing the task is not enough for you to remain with us. You may want to opt out based on this conversation, and if you do, I understand. But you need to understand real clearly how we're going to go forward, you and me. And that's very kind.

Nothing mean about that, is it? No, not at all. I'm finding a hard time. I think it would be hard for me to find good replacements for them. I feel like I've got to put up with them longer than I would like. I'm not putting up with the crap you're talking about for 30 seconds.

Yep. If you want to write a whole series of emails trashing the leadership of Ramsey and think you're going to be working here tomorrow, you're confused. No way. Yeah. And if you're going to run me down with a customer think you're going to be working here tomorrow, you're confused. No way. Yeah. Yeah. And if you're going to run me down with a customer, I'm going to talk to you one time about that and say, you know, I listen, I make a mistake every day. You can talk to me

about my mistakes. You can talk to me about, you wouldn't have done it that way, but we're going to do that together in private. We're never doing that in front of a customer. You are not going to create problems for the customer and stay here. I mean, very short term, it feels like it'd be hard to service the clients without it. You'll be all right. You'll be all right. You're going to have a bigger problem cleaning up the mess with your clients. If these goobers are running you down to your clients, yep. Yep. You're digging a bigger hole every day. They do that. Then you're going to dig by them not being there i'm amazed at how fast how unimportant we all are and you realize that after you're gone for two weeks and nobody

notices yeah and we're all that way yeah i mean if i went off the air tomorrow it'd be about three people cry and two of them would be in my family and the rest of you'd be going well what else we're going to watch? I'd miss you, Dave. I'd miss you a lot. Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. Well, I've got four.

I've got four people. There you go. Yeah, Steve, you're also assuming here, Dave gave you terrific advice, and you're assuming that they're going to go, well, no, Steve, I'm not going to make these slight systemic changes. I'm out. You're assuming that they're going to gamble, and you feel like the gamble's on you by confronting them in a very professional way that Dave laid out. I don't think you should assume that. And so I can still hear the fear, and I understand where that's coming from. I don't say that from a place of judgment.

I'm trying to set you free from it to say, look, if you make it very clear to them that they've got to stop doing this undermining because they're resisting change and they must accept the change, this is exactly what they must accept, or we're going to have to agree to part ways. You got to lay that with them, my friend, because if you stay in a place where you're afraid of it, they will smell that on you, and it will turn toxic. People like that, if it's truly something where they are just kind of a nasty spirit and they sense fear on you, they will take an inch and an inch and an inch and an inch and an inch, and one day you'll just be done with it and you've had it, and we're trying to save you from that.

Let me just tell you, I am amazed that when you kindly and gently and very clearly tell folks what's going on that almost all the time they get right on board yep very seldom do you have somebody that bows up and says well that's it i'm out of here yep i agree with that unless they already were out of here and that conversation just finished it. But if they're 50-50, what I'm talking about, we'll turn them and they'll get right on board. Because I don't think these are bad people. I think they've just been allowed to get away with this crap. I think they've placated me before by saying, yeah, I can make that change, but then they don't make the change. We don't talk about what you say you're going to do.

We talk about what you do. And doing things is what're going to do. We talk about what you do. Yeah. And doing things is what's going to be required. And so, you know, if I tell my wife I'm going to send her flowers, it don't count. It only counts if I do it. Right. You know, my intent doesn't matter. Yeah.

It's the actual action. And my guess is, in this case, that their fear of losing their job is greater than the fear of change. And then he walks alongside him and said, listen, I know this is painful. I'm going to serve you well. I'm going to help you with this. We're going to help you get through this change. It's not going to be as bad as you think. And we can do this together if you want to do it.

That's correct. But I can't make you do it. The only thing I can make you do is not be here. And I don't want to do that. I think you're valuable. I want you to be on the team. And, you know, I goofed up by not letting you know this on the very first day. I should have told you this on the first day.

Sorry about that, but now we're going to fix it. So here we go. Game on. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.