The Ramsey Show - App - Financial Responsibility Doesn't Have To Be Complicated (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 4, 2022

Rachel Cruze & George Kamel discuss: How to decide between using an HSA vs. a FSA during open enrollment, How to prepare for large medical bills while tackling debt, How to communicate your financial reality with family during the holidays, The best way to manage buying and selling homes when moving cross country, The crippling impact of Buy Now, Pay Later companies, How to prepare for college and determine if you can make a living wage in a field you love, Why paying off student loans quickly is the fastest way to get ahead with your finances, Why you should lever pull from retirement savings to pay off debt. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving Storage Studio. It's the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I am Ramsey Personality, Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with Ramsey Personality and podcast co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel. So we are taking your calls. It's free anywhere in the country at 888-825-5225. We'll be talking about your money, about your life, your career, your relationships, anything and everything. So give us a call. That's what I love about this show is we all have life going on. And it's like, yeah, if you just kind of need a second opinion on something,

just give us a call and let's talk through your situation. Or if you need help and advice, we are here for you. So first up, we have Amanda in San Diego. Hey, Amanda, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So it's in open enrollment season.

And my question is, why are HSA insurance options favored over FSA insurance options? Well, with HSA, it's a great option because you can put in money into this and you can pull it out tax-free to use for qualified medical expenses. It's usually, I think, George, with a high deductible plan, it's usually when you have an HSA. And so it's a great option. I mean, if you're on the healthier side and can have that high deductible plan, it's a great option. And then the HSA as well, once you are out of debt and you have a fully funded emergency fund it can also be used as an investment vehicle by putting money in and letting it grow without

taking it out um so yeah so i mean that that's always the plan i favor if you are in a healthy situation and you're saying versus the fsa which is the flexible spending account why is the hsa better well one reason is the flexible spending account that money will die at the end of the year versus the HSA, it rolls over into the next year and the next year. And if you've got money in there that's invested, it'll compound. And so I'm a big fan of the HSA even over the FSA, if you have those options. Yeah, I have both options. And for my specific situation, I've crunched the numbers, and it just seems like a wash for me in particular, which is why the question was there.

So the rollover option is probably the reason it's favored. Yes, absolutely. And I have an HSA here at Ramsey Solutions. My wife works here. We both do the HSA. And once you're out of debt, like Rachel was saying, and you max that out, and what's really cool about the HSA is as you get older, 65, that just becomes a retirement account. You can actually withdraw that money. It just becomes taxable income, even if you're

not using it on medical expenses. Yes, which is, again, a great option to get in early too, because if you're not using that money in this calendar year, then yes, it will roll over and continue to work for you. Does that help? Thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for calling, Amanda. Yeah, it's open enrollment here for us as well. Yeah, I got the email. You haven't done it yet? No, I have like 11 days. Yeah, you should get, you got time. I'm like teacher's pet. I'm like, I'm going to do it right now. Oh, good for you, George. You're so responsible. HR gave me a gold star. They're like, George, you're so good. Well, I know if I don't do it right now, that email will get lost in the inbox. Oh, I know.

So help your HR people out. They're getting stressed out this time of year, guys. Adulthood, man. There's a lot going on. All right, up next we got Annette in Tucson. Hey, Annette. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel.

I'm so excited to be on the show. How are you guys today? We're doing great. How can we help? We're glad to have you. Thank you. It's a really long story. I'm going to try to keep it as short as possible.

So in college, I accumulated some debt, and then through I'm a Christian and through some friends, I learned about what what the Bible says and I learned about you guys and I just started doing your steps and I was successful. I got out of my, all of my credit card debt and I was working for my student loan debt and then I started falling back into my old habits and last, it was catching up to me. And come Christmas, as always, you know, I didn't have money for my family's gift. So I started, again, going back into debt. And, like, I racked up a ton of debt.

How much is a ton of debt, Annette? How much is a ton of debt? I'm going to round it up to $10,000. Okay. Though it's a lot less now. And besides, I got more college debt too, so that's $36,000. Okay. And the credit card debt's down to what?

You said it was at $10,000. What is it at now? I'm going to say $4,000. Okay. And the credit card debt's down to what? You said it was at $10,000. What is it at now? I'm going to say $4,000. Okay. Is that all of your debt? Yes. Okay. It's credit card and some leasing stuff. And then that, so my question is two parts. The first one is I want to get out of debt. I'm struggling so much to even, like, get food. And then I've been trying really hard. I've been, like, budgeting. I've been doing this stuff. I can't, even though I'm very familiar with everything, I can't say that I've been following faithfully.

And I know it only works if I follow it faithfully. But recently, like you didn found the show, the rainy day in Murphy's Law cut up to me. And I need a surgery that is very expensive. And I have no money to pay for it. And I need to be done as soon as possible. Okay. Because if not, my cornea could burst. And I would get a corneal transplant. as soon as possible. Okay. Because if not, my cornea could burst,

and I would get a corneal transplant. So to pay for the surgery and to get it, that is what I need advice on. Okay, okay. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry what you're going through, and medical situations are always very scary. So Annette, are you working right now? Do you have a job?

Yes. I graduated college. I am currently working as a science teacher. I make around $43,000 a year. 43. Okay. And how much is the surgery going to be? So the medicine is $4,000, but the insurance pays for part of it, and that would be $900 for me, $900-something. And then the doctor still hasn't gotten back to me. He said the total cost of the surgery is $20,000, but I don't know how much I have to pay, and I don't know how much the insurance is going to pay yet. So that's not like the self-pay.

That's what it would cost with insurance? No, you said you didn't know what insurance would cover. Yeah, I don't know what insurance would cover. Okay, okay. So, Annette, I would say, you know, part of the fear is coming from the unknown. You know, you'll probably have to pay something out of pocket for this surgery, but you don't know how much. And so in your head,

you know, you're probably looking at this 20,000 and thinking like, oh my gosh, this is what I have. You know, this is the amount, knowing some of it will be taken down because of insurance, but the fact that we don't know that difference right now is causing, I think, probably a lot of this tension and a lot of this anxiety is the unknown. And so what I would say is to get to your insurance company as soon as possible, get that number, and then I want you to start planning out. And I want you to be able to see, okay, how quickly can I get as much money as possible? And this is selling stuff. This is taking on extra jobs,

doing whatever you can and talking to even multiple, you know, doctors as well. Get a second opinion. But as much as you can to gather as much cash as possible in time for the surgery is going to be your goal. Thanks, Annette, for calling. I'm so sorry you're going through it. This is The Ramsey Show. welcome back to the ramsey show i told george in the break i was like let's revisit that because

i feel like we gave annette in our last segment quick advice with the situation. So she has about $40,000 in debt. She's even struggling just to make payments right now on even just getting food and then has an upcoming surgery to fix her eye so that her cornea, something with her cornea. So it's her sight. It's a big deal.

So what we were saying is that a lot of you know some of the angst is coming from the unknown not knowing what insurance is going to pay and also getting a second opinion and then you know having multiple opinions is very important especially if you're going to do something like a surgery because it depending on the doctor the hospital i mean all of it could drastically. And so that's an important piece of information. But always, you guys, if you're in a situation that you have to pause the debt snowball and say, okay, you know, whether it's a medical procedure, whether it's, you know, you're going to be moving in the next 90 days, like we need to pile up some cash, whether it's,

you know, again, medical, you're pregnant, you know, whatever it is. And there's reasons to pause the debt snowball for a period of time to save up cash for something. We recommend doing that. And so for in her case as well, you know, understanding how to get some extra income because she makes $43,000 a year, getting that extra income is going to be really important to pile up that cash. And then in the medical community too, it's like, okay, you know, is there a payment plan option

to set yourself up in? You know, so kind of talking through some of those options and looking at hard numbers, not just the emotion is also very important. Yeah. And there was a few things she mentioned there. She had followed the plan and it worked and then she fell off the horse and went back into a bunch of credit card debt around Christmas time. And now there was a lot of shame and guilt and baggage along with that that we didn't really even have time to address. But part of that, we took a similar call the other week where someone did their debt-free scream and then went back into debt later, which is fairly rare, I will say. But part of that was if you cut up that card in that, then you can't go into will say. But part of that was if you cut up that cardinet,

then you can't go into debt. And so part of it is getting rid of the things that caused you to cause harm to you in the first place. So where you go, you know what, I need to talk to family and say, I can't do gifts this year. I don't have the money. And I don't want to put myself in a situation where I'm in my mental health is struggling, my financial health is struggling, because you got to open a present. That's right. Oh my gosh. Like it's, yeah, this Christmas season, you guys, we're all in like the thick of starting to shop for it and just be aware.

I'm like, you know, if you, if you're not in a position to give a ton this year and buy gifts and everything, communicate that and say it out loud because it removes a lot of that, like that fear of what are they thinking? What's the story in my head that I'm telling myself? You've got to swallow your pride. Yeah, and just say, hey, this year, this is the situation. Because being generous with Christmas gifts to friends and family and going into debt for that is not worth the burden of the after effects of what ends up happening in January, February, March, April, and so on. So yeah, you're exactly right, George, of just taking the temptation out, cutting up the cards,

and knowing that yes, your behavior is what has to change in order for you to make progress. And so I hate that for her because she's in a tough situation. Also, don't beat yourself up if you have to pause the debt snowball because life happened. That's right. It's okay. Yes, we want you to be gazelle intense, and that's awesome. But John Deloney and I, we took a call on the show the other day, and she said, hey, my mental health is on the brink, and I'm trying to pay off debt.

And we said, pause the debt snowball and make sure that you're healthy, and then we can get back to the debt. Yes. It'll still be there to pay off. Yes. You can get back to gazelle intensity, but we've got to take care of ourselves and our health as well. Yeah, it's not just like straight linear line going up.

At all costs. Life isn't, it's like, it's up and down, you guys. You want to be on the path of going up, right? Of getting yourself in a better financial situation. And health scares, man, that is one of those I've had it never again moments when you deal with something like that and you don't have the money

and you're not sure how you're going to pay for this. And it's literally, I mean, this is one of those life or death things and so and health care as we know it it's it's just a crap show rachel it's like going to a restaurant and there's no pricing on the menu and i don't know what this is going to cost and so i don't want to go through with it and there's lack of transparency and we need a lot of reform in that area for sure yes you're exactly're exactly right. All right. Up next, we have Andrew in, is it Marquette? That sounds right. Is that right? Okay. Hey, Andrew, welcome to the show. Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? So I'm in the early stages of potentially getting a new job and moving. I'm kind of in the early interview stages, so nothing's set in stone yet. But if we move,

currently we live in a home where it's a hundred percent paid off. We're debt free. And where we're moving to, the housing prices are a lot higher. So our current house would probably sell maybe 120, 130 after we finish a couple of the projects I haven't finished yet. And then where we're going, that would not be enough to pay cash for a house. So I was kind of wondering what the best option would be. Would it be to maybe one thing we had thought about was buy some land for cash and then rent for a few years and cash flow building a house? Or would it be better to just use what we get from our current house

as a down payment on something in the new location? Yeah, where are you guys moving to? I actually do it on your neck of the woods, like the Nashville area. Oh, okay. Very cool. So from Michigan to Tennessee, that's quite the haul. Yeah, so I would recommend, Andrew, honestly, since we're talking about where we are right now, which is great, I would rent when you guys first get here. I would not feel the pressure to go and buy because like every city out there,

there's parts of it that are awesome and great for your family. There's parts there, oh, that's where all the 20, the Gen Zers are. That's great. They don't have a yard and I wish we did or that side is more artsy.

This one's way too suburban. We want to go to these schools. Yeah, or the schools yeah i mean it's all of it and so i really i would not make a big financial decision like buying a house until you really really really know the area and so yeah if i were you i mean i would probably just rent for a year uh and see where you're at and then yes take the money from the sale of your home the 130 and use it uh yeah for a down payment and then i would just take the money from the sale of your home, the 130 and use it for a down payment. And then I would just take the formula that we always say around here when it comes to buying a home for

your new mortgage to be a 15 year fixed rate, no more than 25% of your take home pay is your monthly payment and kind of follow that rule of thumb and then buy something with that. Yeah. And the question to always ask yourself is, would I buy a house in Marquette, Michigan for $130,000 if I lived in Nashville? And the answer is usually, no, I probably wouldn't do that. And that's how you know the answer is, okay, I'm going to sell it. I'm going to put the money I get from the proceeds in a high-yield savings account. We're going to rent for a year while we stack up more cash, and then when we're ready, we do the down payment.

So that's the way to do it with wisdom and patience where you don't have any regrets. Sure. So you guys think the land option would just not be smart? Yeah, I mean... In Tennessee, land is, I mean, it's expensive. Are you saying in Marquette? No, no, in Tennessee. The reason I like that idea,'ll be i'll be perfectly honest

is i really like to hunt and so getting some land would be nice to be able to hunt on but i do understand that land i don't i haven't really done like super detailed research so i don't know what the land yeah so yeah i mean i thought i mean that's an option i wouldn't be mad at that if there's land that you guys could afford to buy and then yeah and then you rent take out a construction loan do the you know build the house uh that you guys want but again it's all going to be about your budget and depending on kind of where you are in in the middle tennessee area a lot of guys here that love to hunt and i'm sure they'd all would love to buy some land but some of them just they go out and hunt and they live in normal neighborhoods and they go hunt on the weekends. And so that's a very normal thing as well.

So I love the dream, but it just may be a five to ten year dream versus a one year dream. Yes. Yeah. But we're not mad at buying a piece of land and building on it. That could be an option if you find it. He loves him some land. He does. He just wants to have 20 acres of nothing around him.

And so, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. Doesn't every guy though? Do you, George? My husband would. He would move out of a neighborhood in an instant and just be on just land with trees. I also like civilization and being near a grocery store. You know, there's some conveniences to that as well. You're a metropolitan man.

I'm a city slicker, Rachel. That's how. That's right. From Boston. That's right. Doing it all. I know. Well, and again, I think, you know, Andrew, too, part of helping you make that decision is actually flying down,

looking around, looking at options, seeing stuff with your own eyes and looking at prices, because that's going to that's going to be able to give you an answer pretty quickly on what you guys. Nashville versus Marquette. Vastly different. I know. And I'm sorry, Andrew, if you came here like 15 years ago, it was so different. It was so different. You could probably get a bunch of land. Now? I want to see if I can turn back time, Rachel, but I won't because we'll be taken off the air.

Dang it. I wish you would. I wish you would. This is The Ramsey Show. ស្រូវានប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប់ប� Well, you guys, it's November, and if you can already feel it, the holidays are in the air. And it's the best time of year for many reasons, but most important, it is this season for giving. And if you know anything about Ramsey, you know that we love Christmas and we love giving. So that's why we have a tradition, the Ramsey Christmas Cash Giveaway.

You can start entering now for your chance to win. It's our weekly $500 prizes or the $5,000 grand prize. Just think about all that cash, what that cash could do for your budgets. So go to ramsaysolutions.com slash giveaway and enter every day to increase your chances to win. You can enter every single day, no purchase necessary, and you must be 18 or older to win. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash giveaway. And while you're there, check out some great gifts that maybe you can give the people in your life that you love. I have some personal favorites there in the store, and one of mine is the 2023 Ramsey Goal Planner. It's a great way for you or

someone you love to win in the financial, spiritual, and relational areas of your life. So Dr. John Deloney, George Campbell sitting next to me and myself, we've teamed up to help you guys and your loved ones tackle these goals with our monthly motivation here in the Goal Planner. So this is not just a normal calendar, George. This is a full-on Goal Planner. I mean, it was so much content. And of course, you have your calendar stuff in there, which is important. But there's a lot of teaching and everything in here that you need. So make sure. And it's beautiful. It is beautiful. Part of it is the gold foil. I know. And the gold, just beautiful. I got to sign my first one from one attendee in Sacramento. Oh, there you go.

That came to our Building Wealth event last week. Yes. Or this week. And you got to sign my first one from one attendee in Sacramento. Oh, there you go. That came to our Building Wealth event last week. Yes. Or this week. And you got to sign the Ramsey Gold Planner. It was wonderful. So great. So make sure to check them out because they do sell out every single year. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash planner to get yours today.

And speaking of, you know, giving stuff to your loved ones to help them out, tell them about the show. If you love the show, make sure to share it with a friend. It costs you nothing. Let me remind you. Yeah. Just spread the word and make sure to subscribe and rate the show. Everything

you need to do. Not rate it. Leave a review. Rate and review. You do rate it five stars and then you leave a review. Review is what I was thinking of. You're accurate, Rachel. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lots of R's happening in here. Don't second guess yourself. So when it comes to shopping, George, though, there's so many options when it comes to buying stuff.

We obviously teach the debit card, cash, spending your own money, not going into credit card debt or taking out loans. But there's been a sneaky way to pay for stuff that came on the scene probably, what, 12, 18 months ago in a big way. The buy now, pay later option, and the Gen Zers love it, and that means there's a lot of debt associated with that. Oh, yeah. Here's an article from MSN. Buy now, pay later drives Gen Z into debt, and it goes into a story about Sarah who had saved 16 grand for her future home by the time she was 18.

Amazing. Then she started using Buy Now, Pay Later products and, quote, ruined everything. In just two months, she racked up $5,000 across three of these Buy Now, Pay Later companies, polluting balances alongside unexpected medical costs, drained much of her savings, and prompted her to seek help from a financial advisor but the damage was done her credit score dropped and now she's 21 and her home purchase has been set back by at least two years and she's scared she won't even be able to get a mortgage man really sad and five of the major buy now pay later companies here care these numbers george have originated 180 million loans totaling 24.2 billion dollars last year oh gosh let me remind you guys these are loans they're micro loans debt but they go rachel i bought a 50 pair of jeans

and it let me do it in installments of 12 50 a month that's not a loan it's a loan it's a loan when you owe money to someone, that is debt. And it's tricky because, George, honestly, if I didn't live by the principles that we teach, I'm a shopper, you know this, I love to spend money. And when I check out, majority of the places I check out have that option at the bottom, buy now, pay later. And they show you what you just need to pay for right now. And it's tempting.

You're like, I understand. It looks like it's 75% off in your like i understand it looks like it's 75 off you think in your mind is that it well then let me go add some more stuff because i could i could spend a little bit more than just that one payment i mean it's it is crazy well they don't see psychology because gen z is very anti like a lot of them don't like credit cards but they don't see buy now pay later is the same way because they go it's rachel it's interest free. So like, it's basically free money. That's the mentality. Yeah. Yeah. But, but also when you don't pay back all that, all the fees and the back interest, everything piles in too. And we talked about this on, you know, I did the podcast to find print and you were the guest for the episode on buy now, pay later. And we talked

about how beyond all the fees and interest, what buy Now, Pay Later does so well is causes you to overspend. Because now your $50 cart is a $12.50 cart. So you go, well, I can add more because I was going to plan on spending 50 bucks. So I can add four times as much stuff for the same price, except you owe that every single month with fees and interest. And that means you can't spend that money on something else. That's right. There's opportunity costs there. Yep. And so it leaves you not in a good spot, just like who was it? Sarah here? Poor Sarah. Man, $16,000 saved and now she's deeply in debt.

So don't fall for this marketing, Gen Z or anyone else, because it's not just Gen Z that's falling for this. It's anyone who doesn't want to use their money now, or they don't have the money, and they don't have options for credit cards and things like that. Some people don't get approved, but buy now, pay later is very lenient. They're happy to give you these microloans. So if you want to learn more about that, you can check out episode four of The Fine Print on the Ramsey Network, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and you can hear Rachel and I's take on it there. That's right. All right. Up next, we have Sarah in Wellington, Florida. Hey, Sarah, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? So I'm 17, and I ride horses, and I'm at the age where my mom

isn't really paying for it as much as she used to. So right now, I pretty much pay for all my riding lessons. I pay for most of my show fees. And once I turn 18, I'm pretty much on my own. And I love riding. I would love to have my own horse someday, but I also want to be able to save for my future. And I'm just not sure how to be able to like follow my dreams and riding, but also be able to stay for my future. So like one day when I have the money, buy an apartment or a house or whatever. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you calling Sarah and at 17, you sound very, very mature. Okay. So tell me this. What are your plans at 18 for life? Are you going to go to school?

Are you going to go to a trade school? Are you going to go straight into the workforce? What are you thinking is going to happen when you turn 18? That's, like, also one of the things I'm having trouble deciding. Like, do I want to go to a college and study something with horses and be able to, to like work my dream job um this way I have the riding opportunities I want or do I go into something like law and be able to make the money but I'm not doing something that I love as much sure well I would say this

your degree doesn't necessarily have to dictate and pinch and hold you to something very, very specific. So if you don't know exactly what you want to do, I would go a little bit more broad that has market value to know what you're going to make. And so maybe something that's not as specific and niche as horses, because what kind of degree would that be? Equestrian studies? I don't know. What is that, Sarah? So there's a lot you could study with horses. There are different colleges that have different programs. So they have barn management, which is the equivalence to business management, but to running your own barn. Or there's training. Some colleges have riding programs where you could learn how to ride. The question is, Sarah, at the end of that, if you get any of those degrees, are there actual jobs that pay you enough to still survive and live

your life and afford the horse and afford to buy a house and those kinds of things? What I don't want is you have to live in the barn with the horse because you're getting paid $12 an hour with your degree. It depends. Like I'm lucky enough that I live in a very horse populated area. I didn't know that was a thing. A high horse population. Yes. Okay. So Sarah, we're about to head into a break. But what I would tell you is keeping your options open, not pigeonholing yourself so tightly into something that you can't have other options if you decide to do something else later down the road, I think would be smart when it comes to your college. And then you need to know, okay, how much is this going to cost for me to still enjoy this hobby? And then how much

do you need to make to live off of and enjoy the hobby? But your hobby might have to go on pause depending on how much money you bring in. And that's okay, because you can always go back to it. This is The Ramsey Show. We're taking your calls. It's a free call anywhere in the country at 888-825-5225. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with George Camel.

Up next, we have Brandon in Lafayette. Is that how you say it? I think it's Lafayette. Lafayette. Brandon, correct us if we're wrong. Man, you know, it's the southern in me yeah Brandon how do you say it properly how's it going it's Lafayette

Lafayette is Lafayette there's a Lafayette Tennessee Tennessee says things all the same way they also say Lebanon I've got family in Lebanon it's not Lebanon Lebanon, Merrillville

alright Brandon sorry we're here for you how can we help it's alright it's not the worst that I've heard but it's okay but so my question is my wife and I we're relatively new listeners and we kind of

did the plan backwards starting off because we didn't really know but we kind of started investing into a Roth IRA and a brokerage account for about three years now. And we have some loans that we want to pay off by the end of the year, but depending on the forgiveness, I guess two scenarios might happen. If we do get the forgiveness, we'll be able to pay everything off, but only have about 3,000 left over. But if we don't get the forgiveness,

I guess I'm wondering, do I tap into my brokerage account or the Roth IRA? Okay, so how much do you guys owe? Right now, it's sitting at about $70,000. Okay. And how much is in the brokerage account? Right now, it's about like $22,000 to $23,000. Okay.

So I'll tell you what I would do, Brandon. That's kind of how I usually answer these questions, is if I were to wake up in your shoes. George, you can give your thoughts as well. My shoes may be different. We don't know. Yeah, we don't know. We're about to see.

So if I were you, Brandon, yes, I would take – or I'm sorry. I have one more question for you. Do you guys have any just cash around in your savings account? Yeah. In a high-yield savings, we have about $62,000 right now. Okay. Yeah, so that's the thing. So if they do give us $10,000 of forgiveness, we'll be able to pay it all off with just, you know, our money in our savings account.

But we'll only have about $3,000 left over. So, you know, in that scenario, I'm also wondering wondering do i take out money from my brokerage account to kind of kick start my emergency savings yeah so okay here's what i would do if i were you i a brokerage economy it's it's fine i'm sure are using it for single stocks and and moving that money around yeah yeah so so that's so i i'm not a fan of that way of investing, period. And so if I were you, I would just take the $23,000 out of your brokerage account, take the remaining out of your savings, your $62,000, and pay off this $70,000 today. And then what you have left in your high-dealt savings account is probably enough to cover your three to six months worth of expenses that we talk about in Baby Step 3. And then from that point on, then I would just continue to fund your Roth IRA. I

would not touch it, period. I would continue to fund it and fund some good growth stock mutual funds, look into some other retirement investing as well. And then if this student loan forgiveness actually goes through, then you can do a refund and actually apply for that and get the money back if that's what you guys choose to do. But I would not, Brandon, sit and wait for that to go through because it's going to take an act of God for all of this to go through. And with the midterms coming up and possibly even, you know, depending on what the Senate does, you know, the House of Representatives, like I just never put my faith in politics.

It feels so shaky to me. And apparently the Supreme Court's wanting to get involved into this whole student loan forgiveness thing, too. I mean, like, it's going to be a bloodbath. It's just why it's crazy. And it may go through. I mean, who knows? But it's it's not. I mean, we're not seeing something happen at, you know, here in the next at the end of the year, for instance, you know, here in the next 60 days. So again, if it goes through sometime next year, you can always do a refund and get that back. But if I were you, I would not sit and wait. I would pay this off and I'd be done with it and move on to investing. Yeah. The way you described all this, you guys are so, so driven and you

didn't do the baby steps in order. That's okay. Because tomorrow, imagine this, you're completely debt free with a pile of money in the bank. Man, that is a different place to be. And now every dollar that comes in stays with you. You're not worried about what's going to happen with student loans and you can continue to keep saving. And you know, what's your next goal, Brandon? Do you guys have another goal in mind? Yeah, definitely probably need a new vehicle at some point in the next year or two, but definitely probably start a family soon. So my wife, she just graduated from school, so she just got a job. So we can kind of start just to get on with our lives. That's what we kind of just want to do and stop looking at this pile of money that we have. Stop looking at the rear view mirror. That's awesome. What's your household income once she starts working? So she started working like two weeks

ago. And so we just probably hit around 180 before taxes or anything. That's incredible. Awesome, Brandon. That's great. Now imagine 180 minus, you know, Uncle Sam staying with you and you guys can save up. You're going to be able to upgrade a car in no time. You're going to be able to save up and, you know, purchase property and invest and just build wealth like crazy. I mean, you guys are so young. You're doing incredible. So you can do what you want to do, but man, you cash out that brokerage account and never look back and pay off all this debt. You're going to be in an amazing spot financially. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, I have it in my head that I'm definitely not waiting past the end of the year.

So I think I'm setting that as my line. So if nothing happens at that point, I'm most likely just going to take it out and pay it. But yes, I mean, I guess in the chance that they do forgive it and we're able to pay it off with just the money in our bank account, we'll have about $5,000 left over. Do you think at that point? I'm still cashing out that brokerage. Yeah. Because so much of that money, it is kind of just playing the stock game. And in general, we're just not a fan of that,

looking at what's going to, over time, where is my money actually going to make money? And there's a sense of, you know, it's a little bit of that kind of gambling feel of playing the single stocks game and seeing what you can do. And over the length of time, we've just found that, you know,

spreading your money around something like just a good mutual fund, it's not as exciting. It's not as like, ooh, flashy. But it's also not as stressful and anxiety-inducing because you're watching that single stock jump up and down, and you get the adrenaline and you get the anxiety. Man, if you're going to start a family and you're going to be a dad,

I just don't want you worrying about that and losing sleep over what your single stock is doing. You're going to be losing sleep over that baby instead. That's more fun. Yeah. When I got into the brokerage account, I wasn't really too knowledgeable about all the different ways to invest and stuff. So I haven't really put any money into that in a while. Yeah. So I've just kind of been hanging on to it because it kind of dipped down.

So I was just waiting to see if it would come back up. Totally. No, I hear you for sure. It might not be worth the wait. Yeah. And there's no fatal errors here. You know, you're a smart guy, Brandon. Obviously, you know what you're doing. And so I think it's just putting a little bit more of that knowledge,

a little bit more of that predictability in place. But I know you threw out the option of a Roth IRA using some of that. So we didn't really touch on that. But I would just say for everyone listening, do not touch your retirement investing. Don't touch your 401k, your Roth IRA. It's not worth the penalties, the fees, the taxes, everything with Roth, but all the extra that comes with it when

you cash out early, not at retirement age. And the caveat on the brokerage account, make sure you're working with your tax pro because there will be tax implications on all the growth that you've experienced in that account. And so you want to make sure you're planning for that. You know how much you're going to owe, all that good stuff. But Rachel, I just got a message the other day from a guy who's now on the Ramsey plan, but he wasn't before. He was playing with single stocks in his Robinhood account and he had made some money. So he was excited about it. Then he got into options trading, which is one of the riskiest types of trading you can do. And he showed me his Robinhood account.

It was at 10,000 and now it's at zero because of his options trading. He lost it all? He lost it all. Oh man. And so he was kind of showing me, you know, that was him going, I got burnt on the hot stove and I'm just done playing that game.

I know that's- And I hate that he had to learn the lesson that way. I just want to tell everyone, just don't be that guy. Yes. You can avoid it. When you look at the market long-term, this is the time to get in, number one, because it's low. While everyone's freaking out, put your money and continue to invest because then you get to enjoy

the ride up. And again, it's predictable. When you're playing the single stocks game, it's all up in the air. But when you know you're in it for the long-term, investing and boring things like a mutual fund or wealth IRA. Be the crockpot in the world full of microwaves. That's right. That's right. Thank you, George, for a great hour of radio. Thank you, America, for listening and everyone in the booth helping work this, guys.

Appreciate you. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream. We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash debt-free scream.