The Ramsey Show - App - Finding Peace In Toxic Relationships (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 19, 2018

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show. Thank you for joining us. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225 joining me this half hour to answer questions with me the iconic dr henry cloud uh writer of the international bestseller among many other bestsellers boundaries which is where i originally found henry and we've become great friends over the years. Author of the book Integrity, author of the book Necessary Endings, author of the book

Power of Other, author of the website Boundaries.me, where you can learn about your boundaries over a long period of time, working with others and setting things in place. Powerful, powerful stuff. Welcome back, Henry. Dave, good to be here. Good to hang out with you. Henry's been with us this week with our leadership team doing some StratOp work together. And he's been facilitating and leading us through that.

And I came up with a great number. You did? Yeah. When I was listening to your team, you know, looking at all the people you reach and all that, I did some calculations. stuff. Last year, saved a half a billion. That's 500 million sleepless nights. That's a pretty good metric. That's a pretty good number.

You know, all this stress and money and everything causes people, they lie awake, they worry about it. You guys helped half a billion nights to go better. Wow. That's pretty good, isn't it? Pretty cool stuff. Good stuff. Better than Somnix. There you go.

Boundaries and necessary endings also set people free. Too often we feel when we're in some kind of a toxic relationship. We're in a job we hate. The boss is toxic. The environment is toxic we're in a relationship where the other person is toxic or just not worth fooling with you know what really when there's continual boundary violations when someone's interfering in your life to the to a controlling level to create problems like that that's when the other book necessary endings kicks in doesn't it yeah and you know we talk about a necessary ending sometimes it is a

relationship you know there are people um might be extended family might be at work it might be friendship circles of friends where where what for whatever reason they're refusing to get well you know they're refusing to get with the program and take responsibility for their side of of the angst and the pain that they're causing and that kind of boundary sometimes you know it's a necessary ending but there's also necessary when when do you know to end well i think you know it depends on the context you know certainly you know family and extended family and friendships and all of that and work all have different kind of things. Well, they have different pain tolerance.

Right. And they have different consequences. But the big thing about this is that everything that's psychological, psychiatric, research, the Bible, all of it points to the same thing in that I love the verse that says, in as much as it is possible, as much as it depends on you, be at peace with all people. The problem is we don't have control of the other side. And so all we can do, which is a lot, is we can take better boundaries. We can organize our side of the relationship so it gives the best possible chance for the other side to say, okay, you're right, I am causing pain.

I've got to do something about this. I've got to change. I've got to get some help. At some point, though, when you've done all that you can do that's all that you can do and that's a progression it takes some time it takes some steps but you're you're not designed or meant to be on the other side of abuse not for a minute but certainly not for years and so we go through a process and and and to to your point dave you know if somebody's going to change you got to know if that's a difference between real objective hope that

it's going to be different or just a wish and hope if you're going to have hope you got to see some things from the other side to be a pattern yeah yeah you've got to see the other side my husband has been gambling he's a gambling addict. Right. And he says he's going to stop. Right. That's different than he stopped and he's going to Gamblers Anonymous and he's seeing a counselor. There you go.

There's a reason. There's a pattern to have hope versus a wish. That's right. Hope has objective reasons. We place our hope in things that have objective reasons number one the admission by him that he has a problem see everybody else says you got a problem but until he says he's got a problem he's the only one who can do anything about it so he's got to admit it number two he's got to admit the need for two, he's got to admit the need for help, that he's not going to solve this on his own. He would have done it by now.

Number three, is he engaged in some sort of proven system? You know, if he's overspending, is he going to Financial Peace University? Has he got a coach? Is he working a plan? Is he going to AA? Is he going to NA? Whatever it is, we don't care necessarily which one a lot of times, but a proven path. Number four, is that verifiable?

How do we know he's going to his meetings? How do we know he's engaging in the process? And then you want to see some kind of change. You don't have to see perfection immediately, but you're going to see some change, some interruption of that pattern. And you're going to see remorse. And you're going to see that they start to care about the consequences. So I outline those in necessary endings, but you've got to go through the list and say,

when I see these things, then I'll know you're serious, not because your lips are moving. And only, it's your necessary endings formula is really when you lose hope, that they're not going to – you know, you have to decide at some point, are they crazy or are you crazy? Because if you keep engaging in something that there's no factual pattern of them turning their lives around, then that just makes you crazy. We call it codependent. But, I mean, it's a form of crazy. It is crazy. I remember a codependent. But, I mean, it's a form of crazy. It is crazy. I remember a lady called on the radio one day. She said, oh, you know, I'm all depressed and, you know, things are bad.

And I said, what happened? She said, well, I was doing so well. I went back to graduate school. I was getting a degree. And now I'm depressed. And I dropped out and on and on. I said, well, what happened in between? She said, I don't know.

I did go home to visit my family on the East Coast. And I said, what happened there? She said, well, my mother just started throwing up on all my dreams told me i'd never get a job i'm too old to go back to school and all this and i said how old are you and she said 40 i said is this the first time your mother's ever thrown up on your dreams she said no she's been doing it my whole life she's you know just does i said all right now just stop you're trying to tell me she's crazy but you're the one after 40 years have not learned that she's not your primary support group you haven't learned that you got

to say you know there's certain people i can entrust the treasures of my dreams to and there's certain people i can't and that's where boundaries actually begin. Setting boundaries with yourself to stop doing the crazy thing of depending on the crazy person to not be crazy. How about that? Dog chasing its tail.

I love it. Dr. Henry Cloud is with us this half hour. He'll be speaking with me in October and in January, along with all the other world-class speakers at the SMART Conference. October is Kansas City. January is Dallas.

If you want tickets, you can go to DaveRamsey.com. And there will be a bunch of us there. I'll tell you a little bit more about that timeshare pitch that you fell for. They promised you exclusive access to travel anywhere you want. Tropical beaches, mountain getaways, or whatever. Oh, my gosh. They claimed it was the affordable way to travel, and then they convinced you it was a good investment.

But here's the deal. Search any auction site for your exact timeshare and see what it's selling for. It's listed for a dollar with no bids. That's not a good investment. Now, I know I'm just adding salt to a very old wound, but look, if you tried calling the resort and they won't take it back, if you tried selling it and no one will buy it, call Timeshare Exit Team. Timeshare Exit Team will get you out. You'll have to be patient. It can be

a long process and it costs money, but it works. They're so confident in their exit service that if they don't get you out, you get a 100% refund. Call 844-999-EXIT. It's free to talk. 844-999-EXIT. TimeshareExitTeam.com. Joining me this half hour, Dr. Henry Cloud, author of the book Boundaries. And he's going to be one of our speakers in October and January. We're doing one of our favorite events then, the Smart Conference. The Smart Conference is the whole day long event.

And if you come, you'll be smarter. We're going to be smarter in the area of parenting with Dr. Meg Meeker. Money with Rachel Cruz. Retirement and millionaire information with Chris Hogan. Dr. Les Parrott on marriage. Christy Wright on business boutique, equipping women to make money doing what they love. Anthony O'Neill on teens. Ken Coleman on finding your purpose.

Dr. Henry Cloud on boundaries. And I'll be speaking as well. Let me tell you, you would pay what you pay for this ticket to see any one of these speakers. And you get the whole thing for one package. It is the best deal, the best lineup, the best event in America today. Bar none. It's absolutely incredible. And we'll be in Kansas City October the 13th. That is 72% sold out.

That doesn't mean a lot to you, but we watch metrics around here, and that thing's going to be sold out way early. Dallas, yeah, it's selling very, very quickly. That's January the 12th. And get your tickets at DaveRamsey.com or call 888-22-PIECE, 888-227-3223. Henry, you speak all over the place in all kinds of different settings, from leadership events to events that are more public-directed like the Smart Conference. What's different about the Smart Conference from your viewpoint?

Well, one of the things that's different is it's different for me because most events, you know, I fly in, I give my talk, and I leave. This is one where I sit in the audience each time, and I become an attendee because these speakers have stuff that I get something from every single time. And the other thing that's different about it's there's two other things dave i think that that the way that it's designed you know it's that whole pie of life 360 degrees it's it's your whole life it's your money it's your heart it's your marriage it's your well-being it's it's it's your relationships it's all of life but then another thing and i think just as a psychologist, I'll tell you, health is contagious. Getting well, growing, getting out of debt, getting healthier is contagious. And when people come together for a day like that, they begin to get around other people at the lunches, at the breaks, the people they're sitting next to, the people they're talking to.

And they learn, you know what, I'm not in this path alone, and people are doing this, and you form a tribe and a community, and that has huge, huge value, too. So, come on, y'all. Get out there. You know, that last one is the power of other, isn't it? Yeah, it is. The last book you did, right? Yeah, all the research shows this.

You know, the people you surround yourself with, that's who you're going to become like. Period. That's just an is. I was up north the other day. I noticed all those people had an accent. Well, it's terrible. Says the guy from California. I'm not from California.

I'm from Mississippi. From. I like to come back here where nobody has an accent. I can understand what's going on. You can drop back into it, can't you? Good for you. Well done. Speaking of dropping back into it, you know, I read all this neurological research and psychological research,

all these medical journals about how people change. And what I love is when I come back here, I get the Ramsey hillbilly wisdom, and all those research journals do is validate what the hillbillies say all along. It's just stop banging your head up against the wall. You won't have a headache, right? It's common sense. It's common sense, and it works. The two primary boundary violations I get on this show are generational my grown kids are parasites and

sucking me dry or my mother my parents my dad uh wants me to give expects me to is entitled to me supporting him at 72 years old and he's mismanaged money his whole life i resent being required by him or some moral ethic or cultural ethic to support the guy who didn't take care of business his whole life our family ethics it could be a narrative of the family exactly what we do exactly and uh yeah and and they'll you know the the travel agent for guilt trip that's trying to violate your boundaries will tell you this they'll tell you they'll give you the ticket that says you know well you know i changed your diaper you know i took care of you right you are now it's time for you to change mine yeah i mean it's time for you to pay my

yeah my light bill i took care of you i fed you so you owe me yeah how can the listener who's dealing with um someone that they love and and the problem is is that you value that relationship so highly that you will do toxic things to try to keep it in place. Dave, that's the point. You know, we confuse loving somebody with having to do toxic things to keep it in place. Wherever you are, if you've got a piece of paper or do this in your head, I want you to draw a straight line, horizontal line from left to right, okay? Label that line love and put two arrows on either end it just is an unbroken line that's your love for this person now underneath that line is what you're willing to do and that's a dotted line i love you you can't that's not going away i'm willing to do this i'm not willing

to do that i'm willing to do this i'm not willing to do that that's going to always be a dotted line and and it starts i mean it starts in infancy you know you unconditionally love that child but at age two or three or so you're kind of expecting them to do a few things on their own like you know get it in that porcelain bowl and and take care of yourself afterwards and put the food in your own mouth and then I want you to clean up your own room. So that love never changes. It has expectations around it.

Yes. The structure of the relationship changes. Now, I do believe as a person of faith, you know, the Bible is clear about this. It says that, you know, when we have elderly parents and all that, that charity starts at home. And certainly we're supposed to help out in some way. But there's a million different ways of helping out. That doesn't mean you have to move in with them. That doesn't mean you have to have no life.

It doesn't mean you have to write them checks. It doesn't mean you have to write them checks. It might mean that you help them build a support system. It might mean that you drop by once a week and see how they're doing. There's a million different ways of things that we do and how we love people. But the one that is receiving the love can't dictate the terms. Because that's when you violate love itself, which is freedom. And so we have to be choosing how we're going to give.

Because they can dictate some toxic terms. Well, if you loved me, you know, you wouldn't go on a trip without me. If you loved me, you'd buy me this new car. You want your mother driving this old car? I mean, what kind of son are you? See, they start to dictate the terms of how you're going to love and sometimes their methods of loving them are not helping them at all that's where your toxic comes in and they're hurting you you know i think sometimes it helps me to take an

extreme because it helps me understand i've got a good friend whose mom just passed away and she had alzheimer's and every time when he went to have coffee with her in the morning, I mean, she would give him down the road. You know, you stole all my money. When are you going to give me my money back? Because if I had my money, I'd go buy a car. I'd leave this jail. I'd get out of this place. Talking about the nursing home, right?

Yeah. And obviously, she was not in her right mind. I mean, but her whole mantra was, you know, when are you going to bring my car over here? When are you going to let me out of here? When are you going to let me out of here? When are you going to take me back home? When are you going to do this? When are you going to do that? He never did any of that.

He never acquiesced, obviously. She was an Alzheimer's patient. He couldn't acquiesce to her requests. And it helps me to go, you know, this person's requests are that ridiculous. Right. Right. They may not be an Alzheimer's patient, but their requests are equally as absurd. They're equally as absurd,

and they may even be more hurtful. See, when he says no to that, he might have some emotional pain, but some of these requests, literally one generation will take over the lives of another generation. They'll dictate everything from their money. It ends up affecting where they live, how they raise their kids, what they have left for their kids, what it does to their budgets, to their college, to the emotional, all of that. And there are boundaries between generations because you have different roles. I want you

to check out Henry's new website and the things that are going on there. If you want to learn more about this subject, it's called boundaries.aries.me. Boundaries.me. Dr. Henry Cloud, do not miss that stuff. Don't miss the Smart Conference with him. Thanks for dropping by, my friend. It's always good to be with you. Good to see you, Dave. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways.

Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and a struggle to make ends meet. But they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance, and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance.

Just go to ZanderInsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Rashad is with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Rashad. How are you? Hey, good afternoon, Dave. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Hey, man, nothing much, man.

I just wanted to speak with you about a financial situation. My wife and I recently became debt-free, except for the house. We purchased it back in 2015. We have 11 months, I'm sorry, 11 years and 10 months remaining on it. We got it through a special program. We have a very low interest rate, 0.125%. We bought it for 21215,000, and we owe approximately $169,000 on it. I'm trying to figure out what to do once we have our fully funded emergency fund in December. I wanted you to kind of help walk me through it. Okay. After you have completed Baby Step 3, which would be your fully funded emergency fund,

then you would move to Baby Step four, five, and six simultaneously. Four is 15% of your income going into retirement. Five is starting to fund kids' college, if that's in the equation. And six is throw any extra money beyond that I can find to paying off my home early. Perfect. Okay. Okay, because we'll be maxing out our Roth IRA, and for tax liability we're looking at maxing out both of our 403B accounts.

I doubt it. What's your household income? Approximately $154. Okay. Well, what I said was 15% of your household income, no more. Okay. Into retirement. So 154 times 15% is $17,710.

Okay. That would go into retirement. Anything above that would go on to baby step five, kids, college, if that's in the equation. And if not, six, let's pay off the house early. What that does is it puts a real healthy punch onto your retirement meanwhile leaves the money to to start throwing extra money at the house because our data tells us that the average millionaire which is where we're trying to take you is towards wealth the average millionaire pays off their home in 10.2 years the average person following our baby

steps is paying it off in about seven years okay Okay. So you're on your track to millionaire status a lot faster. As soon as the house is cleared up, then we max out. That's baby step seven then. At that point, you max out all retirement options. So, yeah, you put all you could in your 403Bs and your Roth IRAs and whatever else you can do. And even beyond that, because we're going to build, at that point we're going to invest like crazy and be outrageously generous.

So you're right on track. You're doing really smart, good things. Just keep it up. Keep following right through, and you're going to be in a great, great job. Well done. Alex is on Twitter. Dave, does your business value go into your net worth evaluation? Yes.

Your business is an asset. Anything that's an asset goes into your net worth valuation. Net worth is assets minus liabilities. What you own that can be turned into money, that's an asset, minus what you owe. Now, if it's hard to turn into money, that just means it's an illiquid asset, but it doesn't mean it's not an asset. If it's easy to turn into money, quick, that means it's a liquid asset. That's like just taking money out of the bank.

That's liquid. Your bank account's liquid. Your real estate's illiquid, hard to get money out quick, easy. And so, you know, assets are assets. What you own minus what you owe. In my particular case, well in excess of half of my personal net worth would be this business because it has exploded. I've got a lot of money in real estate, a lot of money in mutual funds, but this business has gone bananas.

So the value of my business is, you know, way up there. Now, could I sell it? Well, I don't even care. I'm not going to sell it. But it's easy to put a value on it. There's a valuation process on it that you can use to value, you know, multiples of your net profit, multiples of your gross revenues, whatever you're going to use, even book value, which is what all the things the business owns.

If you just sold off all your inventory and your buildings and receivables and whatever else, that's called book value. At least it's worth that. That's the minimum that it's worth, but it's usually worth some multiple of your net profits, and that's what you're looking for. So good question, good question. But, yeah, when someone says someone is a millionaire or a billionaire,

they are not referring to income, or they're not supposed to be unless they're an ignorant person. Okay? Because, you know, when you hear one of these politicians say, well, he's not a millionaire. He doesn't make a million dollars a year. Well, that's an ignorant politician. They don't know what they're talking about. He's not a billionaire. He doesn't make a billion dollars a year.

It's not how you measure millionaire or billionaire. A billionaire, a millionaire is is based on it's an accounting function it is a net worth what you own minus what you owe and so well million dollars isn't quite enough anymore we weren't discussing whether it's enough we were discussing how to calculate it we can discuss how to you know if you have a million dollars in mutual funds, net, and you have no debt, then, you know, you can tell what that's, you know, if it makes 8%, that's $80,000 a year. And that's what, you know, that millionaire, if you don't own any real estate, you don't own anything else, you just had a million dollars in mutual funds, being a millionaire says you'd have about an eighty thousand dollar a year income is that enough yeah yeah for most people that's enough is that enough to buy 17 cars and have 110 foot yacht in the mediterranean no millionaires can't do that they don't have the money so you know what do you mean when you say

someone's rich if it's 110 foot yacht that's $500 million or whatever, or $500,000 or whatever. You know, that's one thing. If that's what you think of as rich, then you think of rich as much more than a millionaire. But a millionaire is a really good place to start. There's about 11 million millionaires in America. And if you can get to there, if you can have that as your first big wealth financial goal, then that tells us from there you can do a lot of stuff. And there are very precise data points that tell us how you can become a millionaire.

So if you had a business that was worth $500,000 and you were 70 years old, unless you sell the business or take an income out of the business after retirement, that business doesn't add much to your retirement, even though you would have a net worth of a million dollars probably at that point. So can the assets create money starts to tell you whether being a millionaire is enough. Joel is with us in Meridian, Mississippi. Hi, Joel. How are you?

Good talking to you, Dave. Pleasure to talk to you. You too. Thanks for all you do. I appreciate it. Brief background in question. I am on baby step two. I'm about a month away from having paid off $11,000 since January 1st,

so my wife and I have been pretty gazelle intense with your program. I'm an Air National Guardsman, but when not drilling or making military paydays, I'm a federal technician, so a civilian working with the Department of Defense. As such, I have two TSP accounts, one for military, one for civilian. After getting the emergency funds stacked up, of course, I'm starting to look ahead to resuming my investing. I've always given to the traditional TSP, and just for the sake of using round numbers, I've got about $50,000 in each. And I'm curious if I should continue, because I'm so invested in the traditional right now, contributing to the traditional TSP, or if I should convert or switch to Roth?

I would do it as a Roth. Okay. But before I did it, I would do a couple of Roth IRAs. And that's $5,500. You're married. Yes, sir. That's $5,500 each. And so if $11,000 does not equal 15% of your income, then you would do some TSP and a couple of Roth IRAs.

Why? Because the TSP has some decent options. The C plan is the best plan, the I and the S. And so I generally tell people to put about 80% C, 20% or 10% S, 10% I. I don't do the L. I don't do any of the F or G or any of that. I just keep it real simple. The C plan is basically an S&P 500.

Okay. Okay. You can beat those returns on those three funds in the open market with your regular Roth IRA with good mutual fund selections by going to a smart investor pro. You can beat the rates of return in the TSP. TSP is not bad. I just think you can beat it with that first $11,000 a year. And then beyond that, if you want to do some more, do Roth TSP and do C, heavy C, with some S and some I sprinkled in.

That's what I would do. Good question. And thank you for your service, Joel. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Can you believe this real estate market? Home shopping has become so competitive. There's a ton of new buyers in the market, and bidding wars are the new normal. Folks are under a lot of pressure to offer more money to get into that house. Don't do that.

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Hi, Maria. How are you? Good. My question is, my daughters have savings accounts that we had set up several years ago. They were three-year renewables. The bank merged with another bank, and that renewable is no longer available. So I'm trying to decide what to do with that money. Currently, we had to drop back into Baby Step 1. My husband lost his job for three weeks and got a new one, but we're slowly rebuilding.

So I'm wondering if we should use that money now to build our emergency fund and start back into Baby Step 2 and then build their amounts back later. How much is in their accounts? One is close to $7,000 and the other one is closer to $6,000. $1,000? $100. No, $100. Sorry. Okay. And when your husband's working, what's your household income? Well, he just started with this job at $1,650 an hour, but it's more than 40 hours for the summer. Okay.

And then I just got hired as a teacher, so I know my income is going to go up because I haven't been working as full. I've been just doing home daycare, so my income is going to go up because i haven't been working as full i've been just doing home daycare so my income is going to increase as well so you've gone through a scary patch but your household income now is over fifty thousand dollars a year it will be yes no it is i mean you're both working yeah you haven't collected any checks yet but i mean it's your household income in the coming 12 is that so the need for 700 is not there okay it's not it's not like your family's not going to eat no i just we don't have anything in baby step one there you know so so you got my but your but your point is you cannot live in the fear of six weeks ago you live right you live in the promise of the coming six weeks and And that's how you make your decisions.

So if you were completely broke and your lights were getting ready to be cut off, I'm using that money. If there's no food, I'm using that money. But that is not your situation. Right. Yeah. And it's not a bunch of money. No, no. So, yeah,, you know. And it's not a bunch of money. No, no.

So, yeah, I'm going to leave it alone. I'm going to leave it in the kids' names. Because I think most parents, when you take, even though you put the money in there, even though you technically own the money, because minors don't technically own money. Correct. Okay. So even though all of that's true for most parents it feels so weird to quote take your kids money unquote right and i think it that that for the

little bit of bump you get in this situation i think the weirdness is going to offset it and so if i'm in your shoes i'm going to leave leave it alone. You've got a really good upcoming six weeks. You're going to finish baby step one. You're going to get back on baby step two. You're going to get on your budget. And now that you've been through this rough patch, you're going to really, really lean in because you don't ever want to be here again. And $700 doesn't make much difference.

It'll buy a bag of groceries if your kids are hungry, but your kids are not going to be hungry. George is with us. George is in Midland, Texas. Hi, George. How are you? I'm doing great. And yourself?

How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'm brand new to this program, to your show, and I've been trying to follow everything. I know you mentioned paying off the little accounts. I've paid off all my credit cards and I am left with my apartment, which I pay $633,000 and an auto loan, which is right about $31,000. I make $85,000 a year, but I am in the oil field, and I've been out here for four years. I'm basically burnt, and I want to go back home, which is El Paso, Texas.

I'll be making $38,000 a year out there. Should I stick it out here and try to pay off as much on that vehicle, or would it be okay to... You need to sell a car. Oh, yeah. You need to sell your car. Oh, yeah. You need to sell your car. Sell my car. I'll be probably in like $5,000 negative equity. You're $31,000 negative.

I see. You've got a mess. I have. And $31,000, if you've got a job and a career that you're going to stick with making $85,000, you could pay it off and keep it. But you're not going to stay. You're going to go make $38,000. Having a $31,000 car debt while making $38,000 is known as insanity.

I see. That's just nuts, man. You can't do it. Mathematically, I'm not picking on you. I'm just saying I want good things for you, man, and that car is going to eat your lunch when you're making 38 if you don't have any debt and you're back home and making 38 and you have a better quality of life i don't have any issue with that that's not a bad move at all cool go do that you know

because what you're saying is oil fields like 60 hours a week and they're working you to death it's hard but it's hard 80 to 100 hours a week yeah it's hard i mean and's hard. 80 to 100 hours a week. Yeah, it's hard. It's not 80 to 100 hours where you're sitting on your butt. I mean, you're exhausted all the time. Exactly. That's what you're saying. And you're saying, I can do that for a little while to hit some goals, but the 10 years from now, me ain't doing this.

Exactly. That's for sure. Now, I would challenge you to look at another option, and that is go do something that gives you your life back that makes more than 38. Let's have a different career path. In other words, you've given me A, the oil field, B, 38 in El Paso. I'm saying let's explore C, since we're doing multiple choice. And I don't know what C is, but let's just make it up.

I mean, this is America. What do you want to be? That's right. Be it. Just decide. I see. You know? Okay.

Because you're not afraid of hard work. We know that about you. Right. I mean, when you need to lean into something, you can do it. So, I got to tell you, man, a guy like you, some people you can't teach them to work, you know? But you know how to work. I mean, if you're working oil field, I know what you're doing. You know how to work.

And if you can do that, you can do a lot of different things. So, what is it you're going you know how to work and if you can do that you can do a lot of different things so what is it you're going to lean into what do you want to be 10 years from now what are the steps to get there that's your c i don't like your a much i don't like your b much i want a better c i like b at 38 000 okay if you sell your car but you you can't take a $31,000 car into a $38,000 scenario. It's going to kill you. It's going to eat you up, man. And I don't want that for you. It's just a stupid car.

So if you want to get your life back, sell your car, leave the oil field, go make $38,000, or have a better C plan. A, B, or C. Thanks for calling in, man. I think you got it in you because I know you're not afraid to work. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money.

David is in Indianapolis. Hi, David. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure, man. What's up? Me and my wife have a student loan issue. We had 10

separate student loans with Sally Mae. They were calling for a couple months. We finally started set up a payment plan, but we didn't notice that they had sold off two loans to a different student loan company. It was more of a debt collector style. They garnished her wages just recently, and we were trying to figure out what the best route would be. The loan balance was originally $12,000. They currently quoted us at $25,000, so $15,000 in principal, $5,000 in interest, $5,000 in fees and costs. And they said they'd settle for 18. I was wondering what the best route would be to come up with that 18. If you can get the 18 together, I would take it and get it off the garnishment.

It'll give you a lot better cash flow in your situation. Can you scratch the 18 up? We cannot. We have been following the baby steps. We've got our $1,000 emergency fund. So you don't really have the option of taking the 18? I was going to inquire about a HELOC against our house just to get it off of garnishment. No, I wouldn't do that.

I wouldn't do that. I'd leave it sit on garnishment for right now. How much other debt have you got? We have $75,000 in other debt. 22 on cars, 4 on a wedding loan, and 50 on other student loan that we're currently on payment plan for. Okay. And your household income is? $115,000.

Oh, that's good news. So you're plowing through this pretty quick. You'll be debt-free in two years. Yes, sir. We were doing really well, and we just got scared by the garnishment. Yeah, I think it kind of takes a breath out of you. It is scary. It's emotional to have somebody take over your life, which is what garnishment does.

Yeah, I think regardless of the garnishment, if you just say $37,500 a year, two years, we're going to be debt-free, making $100,000. You can do that. And I think you're going to be okay. No, I would not take out a HELOC to get rid of this. It's just the emotional aspect of it. Let's just lean in, get them knocked off as fast as you can, and work your debt snowball, and be

debt free in two years. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, Dave's phone screener. We finished 2017 with a bang as the fourth most downloaded podcast of the year. Thanks to all of you for listening and helping us spread the word. Are high healthcare costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options?

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