The Ramsey Show - App - Focused Intensity Is the Key to Winning With Money (Hour 2)

Episode Date: September 21, 2022

George Kamel & Ken Coleman discuss: Talking a friend out of student loans, When to go to law school, Paying off a house, How you only lose money in the market if you sell when it's low, Dealing with a house after a divorce, Using extra income to pay off debt, Dealing with toxic leadership in a job. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods moving and storage studios, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman this hour, and this is your show, America. Call in with your questions at 888-825-5225. Ken, moments ago, you were hosting the Ken Coleman Show. What's on people's minds out there? The job seekers, the employees? Yeah, they're worried about inflation. It's a big thing. Am I making enough? I don't know if

I'm making enough. I think they're certainly watching a lot of people leave jobs. And we were still in this cycle right now. We're having over 4 million people a month change jobs. That hasn't slowed down. Unemployment rate is still low, but the Fed, we saw that the Fed was going to do it, came out. Fed raised it 75 basis points. So people are going, am I going to get laid off uh they're really worried about that a lot of fear and uncertainty a lot of fear and uncertainty um certainly people thinking about that obviously and people trying to make a decision you know should i leave now um so we're always talking about that in the world at work you know they're watching other harmful trends like today we reported that there's a new trend where companies are actually advertising jobs and they have no intention of actually filling those positions.

For a variety of reasons. They leave the positions open because they don't want to take them down. There's nobody thinking about it. Or they're trying to make the company look like they're doing very well, so it's a PR play. Or they're actually not intending to hire. They're just maybe hoping a unicorn walks in, and if a unicorn walks in, then they'll go, oh, we'll hire you. And so that's creating a lot of frustration for people

who are looking for jobs and they're hearing crickets. So that's some of the stuff we're dealing with every day. Well, if you've got a question for Ken in that space, you're going, hey, I think I want to switch careers. I'm at a crossroads. I've got a decision to make. I'm in a toxic workplace. Give us a call, 888-825-5225. I, of course, can help with any of your money questions, and that's what we're here to do. So let's get to the phones. Justice

joins us in Tucson. Justice, welcome to the show. Hey, Jordan. This is so cool. I get to talk to you guys. This is really cool. Justice, we're glad you called in. How can we help? So a little background. I'm 18 years old right now. I'm a freshman in college, and I've known this girl for a long time, and she's recently my new girlfriend. And she brought up this. She's still in high school, but she brought up this idea of taking out a student loan, and I quickly shut her down.

I've been listening to you guys for a couple of weeks now, pretty heavily. And I'll borrow future podcast. Huh? How did she take it? So she immediately, I started to explain to her, she questioned it a little bit and then she ended up saying, okay, I won't take it out and this, but, uh, you know, knowing her, she, I don't know if she for sure wouldn't take it out, but she also is kind of excited about this college lifestyle that she wants to live, have fun in college and do all that.

But I know having that mindset might be easy to fall back on a student loan. Yes, so you're in college right now, correct? Yeah, I'm a freshman. I'm cash flowing right now. You're cash flowing. I'm doing community college. Nice. I'll see. What are you headed towards? So my, are you talking about my degree? Yeah. Your career, where are you going?

Uh, I'm going to major in accounting. Okay. So you're doing what? Community college just to get the basics knocked out and save some money? Yeah. I'm just going to get my general associates right now. Yeah. Get all my pre-reqs done yeah he's very mature question so you this is a girl you've known a long time and now you guys are starting to date and you're in college but you're in community college getting that associates and you're worried that she's all about the experience whereas you've already decided

that's not what it's cracked up to be is that what i'm hearing yeah so i am willing like to delay that pleasure aspect in the college like getting through it still having fun and that aspect but not wanting to jeopardize my future yeah i think that's the answer to your question i love george that he he's listening to the book that he's seen the barred future documentary i think you got to sit down with her i'm sorry yeah i haven't seen the doctor i plan on watching oh i'm sorry you said you listen to the podcast yeah i listen to the whole podcast on my own so nice the pocket george i apologize i apologize well that's a great point though they could watch it together i think you watch it together but then i would actually let her listen like see if she'll just listen to those podcasts that you recommend. And then it gets her

all the information in the head that you've got. And then you have some real conversations about it, not heavy, but I think it's about casting vision. Like, I think you've got to walk her through what would happen, what it would look like, how much money she'd have to pay back, realistically how hard she'd have to work to pay it off quickly, and just let her see the story and the narrative. Nobody hears that narrative. Unless you listen to George's podcast, Borrowed Future, or the documentary, or you listen to the show,

no one is sharing the narrative of like how freaking hard it is to deal with the loans on the back end. You are better off just going to Europe and having a great time. You could have a luxury vacation to Europe if you're just going for a great experience and to get some culture. Yep. Right? And so part of this insanity is we've forgotten the purpose of college. And I love community college because guess what? There is no experience. You go, you go to class, you study, you do the test, you leave with a piece of paper. And I love community college because guess what? There is no experience. You go, you go to class, you study, you do the test,

you leave with a piece of paper. That's it. That's all college should be. I have all my online classes. Attaboy. Look, look, I mean,

you can go to, like George said, you can go travel anywhere in the country and go to a lazy river for the weekend and it costs you, you know,

four, five, six hundred bucks or a nice hotel room. Way cheaper than two hundred grand in student loans. Have you seen the videos

for these colleges, folks? Yes. In case anybody's wondering if it's a game, go on any college university website you want to and watch their sizzle reel. It's like an amusement park on steroids. It's like summer camp for college kids. Woo-hoo! Whee!

I mean, that's what it is. It's like, give me a friggin' break. Yeah. And I think at, you know, she's what, 16? 17? Oh, give me a frigging break. Yeah, and I think she's what, 16? 17? Yeah, she's about to turn 17. Okay, so at that age, you're not thinking, where am I going to go to college and what's the degree?

You're just looking like, oh, it's the next thing. I'm finally going to be out of school. I'm not going to live with mom and dad anymore. I'm going to be on my own. I'm going to have this amazing experience. And that decision alone will cause people to struggle for the next 20 years as they pay off student loans. Yeah. She has, she has the idea of her career and stuff and like where she wants

to be in life, but what does she want to do? She wants to go into journalism. Cool. Hey, you know what you ought to do? I hear this excitement of that life in her voice or the college life and i just i don't want that to default to like want to take out a loan to make it easier even like to the point of credit cards like hey here's what i want you to do here's what i want you to do justice this is really easy to do i want you to go do the research on what journalists are making their first couple years out of college i want you to show her the numbers like a starting salary and how hard it is to get into journalism i mean you wouldn't believe how low they're paid okay and how hard they work and i'm talking about people you see on tv with a really nice dress doing the weather well we have a uh southwesterly wind blowing in today they're making nothing and and

the student loans and then show her how much that journalism degree if she takes a loan and what she's gonna have to pay back versus what she's making, oh, baby, that'll do the trick. I'm serious, man. Journalism is tough. We've got some folks that left journalism. They're working here now, and there are some horror stories. Oh, I've heard them. Because the degree still costs a whole lot of money, and the salary on the other side,

you go, man, this is not worth it. So I hope that documentary helps. We're going to send it to you for free. It's like $5, but we'll cover it. Austin's going to pick up. We're going to send it to you for free. It's like five bucks, but we'll cover it. Austin's going to pick up. We'll get you a code to watch that. I hope that convinces her. If not, you got to go, is this the girl I want to spend the rest of my life with?

Nope. If I don't align on our basic values, that might be part of it. Well, good luck, my friend. Hang on the line. Austin will pick up. This is The Ramsey Show our question of the day comes from blinds.com their 100% satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free.

You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Be sure to use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best deal. Today's question comes from Logan in Arkansas. My wife and I are expecting our first child, but I'm looking at switching careers to go into the legal field. We are currently debt-free except our home and have a three-month emergency fund. My question is, should I delay going to law school full-time and continue to work so we do not go into debt

or go to school part-time and pay as I go? Yes. Well, you absolutely should not go full-time and go into debt so delay yes or cash flow part time both options work and let me just tell you something the legal work is going to be there the legal field is going to keep on going whether you're in it or not and there's no reason to be urgent here you don't want to go into this new field, and instead of being excited about this work that you've put a lot of time and effort into in the form of law school and the LSAT and all that stuff, and then be stinking dragging around that debt

on your shoulders all day long. I would never go after the dream job that could be a nightmare because of the amount of money and stress and lack of margin and relationship tension that debt causes. Wait. So either keep working and save up. But I actually like option two better. Yeah.

I think it motivates us a little bit more when we're actively involved in it. So I'm taking one or two classes and it's just incrementally getting me there, but I'm tasting it. And you might figure out, this ain't it. This isn't for me. It could, but you know, that's a very interesting point. Before I'd ever go into law school, I would spend time, I'm talking shadowing lawyers and they'll let you do it. Lunches with lawyers. I would be talking as many lawyers as I possibly could before I ever committed to law school. Taste it.

Smell it. See it. Try it. Get immersed in it. And I'm going to tell you what's going to happen. Once you gather that experience, whether it be law school, medical school, or any kind of expensive school, once you experience enough of it, your heart will then confirm if, in fact, you should do it. Well, the first sentence worries me a bit, Ken.

He said, my wife and I are expecting our first child, but... And so we've got to figure out what this first child, you know, how that's going to go. We've got to stack up cash for the baby. I'm telling you how it's going to go. There's going to be a lot of diapers and a lot of sleepless nights. It's going to be okay. We're switching careers while we're having our first kids. There could be a lot of stress here.

I was switching careers. I had three kids under the age of three running a small business, chasing the broadcasting dream. Sorry to sound like old school tough guy. I was waiting for you to say, and I walked uphill both ways. Well, I did, George. But no, but seriously, you could do it. You've got to be willing to commit to this. This is going to be a lot of work. That's my point. Law school's But no, but seriously, you can do it. You've got to be willing to commit to this. This is going to be a lot of work.

That's my point. Law school's no joke. Yeah, but you can do it. All right. Love it. Thanks for the question, Logan. Appreciate that. Let's go to the phones.

888-825-5225 is the number to call. We'll talk about your life, your money, your career, a crossroads. We'll give you some confirmation. We are here for you. Here's one, George. If people want to talk about getting a bigger shovel, making that switch, that career switch. Who doesn't want that? Let's go.

That's what I love to help people do. Increase their income. Get that competitive edge. It's your greatest wealth building tool. Let's do it. Love it. Laura's joining us up next in Miami. Laura, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Thank you so much for having me on. Absolutely. I have a basic question that's, should we pay off the house? But there's kind of more me on. Absolutely. I have, thanks. I have a basic question that should we pay off the house, but there's kind of more to it. Okay. My husband and I are in our 50s. We just got married three months ago. We were both working the baby steps on our own previous to getting married. So we didn't have any consumer debt. I didn't have a house. So I was maxing out my retirement and I was putting significant amount of money into a brokerage account. He was on baby steps four through six,

trying to pay off the house. This kid has grown. So now that we're married, we've combined our finances, but we haven't really made any other big decisions yet. So like I still have my draft coming out for the brokerage account. So now we have this non-retirement account, but it's down. The market's down. So according to the baby steps, we should take that out and pay off the house. And it's just like, so we have this big emergency fund because we both had an emergency fund, and we have this non-retirement account. So do we lock in our losses and pull that money out and pay off the house,

or do we wait for the market to recover? Well, I think you could hang on to this money for a little while longer and then throw it at the mortgage. What's left on the mortgage? $133,000. And what's in the brokerage account? It varies up and down, you know, $123,000 to $ 123 to 130 over the past couple of weeks. Okay.

Plus we've got the big emergency fund. So what if we stop contributing to the brokerage account and let's start saving money separately in a savings account, or you can throw that, you know, all your future income towards the mortgage. And then once the balance of the mortgage reaches the balance of the brokerage account, we cash it out and pay off the house in one fell swoop. Okay, so just when the number gets the same, regardless of the market, just pull it out. Yeah, how much money would you be losing? How much have you contributed?

Well, $1,700 a month, and it was $140,000 last year, and now it's $123,000. But how much of that is your contribution? I don't know if I understand the question. Well, part of that is growth because you invested it. So you didn't actually put in $140,000 of your own dollars. You may have put in $112,000, and it grew to $ grew to 140, right? Ah, yes. So I wouldn't look at this as a giant loss. If you put in 112 and it's now 130, you're up over your contribution. So I'd call that good and I'd go live free without a mortgage payment. That is amazing. We never

thought of that. So I think that will help this not feel like an emotional loss. Listen, I'm blessed to be a blessing. Thank you so much for the call, Laura. That's brilliant. We never thought of that. Thank you. I think that will help this not feel like an emotional loss. Listen, I'm blessed to be a blessing. Thank you so much for the call, Laura. That's brilliant. Brilliant advice. I didn't know it was, Ken. I was just doing math. No, but here's the thing.

Never thought about it that way. You gave a different perspective. And it's framing things to be able to make a decision confidently. Well, this market is causing a lot of fear, Ken. People are going, well, my money's down. Well, you didn't lose any money until you actually sell those shares. Until you cash out. That's right. So there you go. Think about it this way. Yes, the market is down, but if you continue to invest and you're now buying at a discount and it goes back up, bada bing, bada boom, George. I love that. I haven't heard that one in a while.

We should probably record that after the show and then use it as a sound effect going forward. I'm sure James is working hard on that one. James shot that one down immediately. Well, Ken, I did a Q&A over on my Instagram yesterday, and it's fascinating how many people are so scared right now that they're taking the money, moving their money from their 401K into the cash equivalent in a money market. So they're not cashing out.

There's no penalty. They're just moving it out of the market, and that worries me. But it's unnecessary. Yes. Tell people why. Well, they're thinking very short term. They're thinking, I want to stop the hemorrhaging. I want to stop this free fall. Right. And therefore, I'm going to move it into cash. The problem is you're missing out on buying all these stocks on sale. Discount, baby. And so what's going to happen is the market's going to come back up and you you're going to go, oh, my goodness. It was sitting in cash, and it wasn't invested, and I could have made so much more if I had just stayed the course.

So we say the only people who get hurt on the roller coaster are the ones who jump off early. Yeah. So don't do this. Stay the course. Literally, think about that. Think about like you're riding the roller coaster, and then you hop off halfway through the ride.

You're not going to make it. Because you're in free fall, and you go, this makes your stomach turn. And so what do you do? You go, I want to get off this ride. But if you just hung on a little longer, and think about this too, no one's cashing out their retirement all at once. You're only withdrawing as much as you need to live that month. That's true. So if you're down, you're not taking out all of that money while it's down. You're taking out a very, very small percentage to cover your bills. And so over time, we want you to stay aggressively investing until you take your last breath because you're missing out on big returns.

Yeah, I love the roller coaster analogy. I got a great roller coaster story for you, George, as we go into commercial break. Hit me. I was at Busch Gardens one time in Williamsburg, Virginia, and was in line for a roller coaster called the Loch Ness Monster. They shut the ride down. We Ness Monster. They shut the ride down. We want to know why they shut the ride down. We find out Fabio, you know, the giant guy with the hair on the romance novel, the beefcake guy. I can't believe it's not butter guy. I don't know,

but he was on the ride and a goose flew into him, broke his nose, shut the ride down. I never did get my eyes on Fabio and his broken nose, but there's my rollercoaster story. I don't even know if I believe that. That sounds like folklore. A goose hit Fabio, broke his nose at Busch Gardens. Flew into him while he was on the ride, broke his nose. This sounds like one of those weird dreams you tell a friend and they go,

that's really true. It was reported in the news the next day. You know the news is never wrong. Well, hey folks, you didn't come here for that, but you got it anyways. And that's what you get right here on The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman this hour. This is your show, America. 888-825-5225 is the number to call. We'll talk about your life, your money, your career, whatever's going on in your world.

Aaron joins us up next in Indianapolis. Aaron, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, thanks for taking my call, guys. Sure. How's it going? Yeah, so I am in... Your phone is breaking up on us. It's clipping in and out.

Can you get to a clearer spot? Yeah, I don't know. Okay, well, I'm going to put you on hold, and we'll see if Austin can get you clear, and we'll come back to you. How's that sound? Melissa is going to join us instead. She's in Sacramento.

Melissa, welcome to the show. Hi. Hey, how are you doing? Dressing out. Okay. What's your question? Got to test decisions to make. All right.

Hit us. Let's see if we can help. All right. So, getting ready to go through a divorce, and the home that my husband and I own together, well, you know, it's a mortgage, of course, but I need to decide whether or not um we're going to go ahead and proceed with um selling it which was our initial plan um or refinance it with enough to buy him out which obviously is um going to increase my payment um substantially especially in this market and um also with adding um the money to buy him out obviously that increases

the price as well and you know i'll be doing it on one income versus two the other option is i own a piece of property that has an old mobile on it. I actually moved into a fifth wheel and that's the kicker. I bought a fifth wheel to live in because the mobile is not that great, but there's not enough room. There's already my father and son living in there. And so I could stay at this other piece of property and save, you know, my monthly expenses would be substantially lower. I figured, you know, after writing it all down, I'd save about 23 something, you know, about $2,300 a month by staying at this property. And then do I do that? And, you know, with the proceeds from the other house, we decide to sell that along with what I have in savings. And then

eventually selling this property, put all those funds together and buy, you know, maybe in about five years, I would have more of a substantial down payment for a home. I mean, I did a projected savings. And if I only saved the difference in cost between the two properties with all that and just projecting that I figured I'd probably have a little over $300,000. Of course, I wouldn't put that whole amount down, but very close. I think I was about $350,000. And then if I put $300,000 down, then it still leaves me with what I like to have is a minimum of six months emergency fund in case, you know, you lose your job or whatever. So do you have any debt outside of this mortgage? I do.

I can't. Yes, I have two vehicles right now. I only have a little bit on a credit card, and that's because it was a 0% promotional rate, uh, build a fence for my, you know, I use it for fencing materials. Um, but that's, um, I think it's at 32. I just paid $2,200 on it in two months. I'm paying another, I was going to pay another 600. Okay. What's up with the two car loans? Do you need two cars? Okay, so the two, no, one's for my son. He just turned 18. I bought it, and he uses it to get to work and stuff. I have enough, just about enough, if I sell some employee stocks, which actually they're on my list of calls today, to go ahead and sell my qualifying stocks, and I could add a little bit more to that and pay

that one off. Okay. What I'm hearing is you're doing 19 things at once and your life is already messy as it is. So can I simplify all this for you? Sure. If I woke up in Melissa's shoes and I'm walking through a heartbreaking divorce and I've got this property and the mobile and the fifth wheel and I've got the car loans and the credit cards. I just want to simplify my life. Is that what you want too? Yes. Okay. Here's what that would look like for me. It means selling the house, getting out of it completely. He takes his portion. I take my portion. I sell the employee stocks, maybe look at even selling the property. And I just start over and I go, what does the future for Melissa look like now with a clean slate, with no payments in the world and a giant pile of cash? What would Melissa do?

If you had a pile of cash right now, would you go and buy that property and buy that mobile home? No, I would buy my own home in town closer to work. Boom. So now we can start doing some math and go, okay, we're going to sell the stocks. We're going to sell the house. We're going to get my portion of that. It's a clean break. I don't need to mess with cash out refis and all these things. I'm going to sell the property. And now I have, how much money would you have? Hundreds of thousands of dollars? Yeah. I projected, like I said, about $300,000 in five years. Five years? It wouldn't be five years. How much would you have today if you sold everything?

Well, I hadn't thought of that because I wouldn't know where I would live. Well, let's not think five years out. Let's think about six months out. You know where you'd live. You could get an apartment for a season. Right? You don't have to buy right away. You don't have to buy right away. I know, but I have two big dogs.

Yeah, I really live in an apartment with two big dogs. What are they, horses? Well, you know, if I worked 12 hours a day, there would be a lot of, you know, bathroom accidents all over the floor if you left them in there. They're, you know, 78 pounds and 55 pounds. Okay, so the dog and their doo-doo is going to hold up you having a good plan. I know, right? No. Well, like I said, I own this other property.

Would that not be a wise choice to just stay on this property? I just pay the property taxes and insurance, which is like... And where are you going to live on the property? In the fifth wheel? In the fifth wheel. It's already set up, yeah. That's a temporary solution, but that doesn't sound like Melissa's future. No.

You can do that for a few months. It was my five-year plan. I don't know if that's... So that's enough room for the kids and the giant dogs? Well, the kids are grown up, so it's just me and the two dogs. Oh, okay. It's a half acre for them to run around on. I built six-foot tents all the way around it.

I think you keep the property in the fifth wheel until you can get your own place, but this is not a five-year plan. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So sell your house. And then this is not a five-year plan. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So sell your house. And then we're going to get rid of all the debt. Get the stock, pay off all the debt.

Yeah. By the way, the 18-year-old needs to- I can pay off all the debt once I sell that home. I can pay off a decent chunk now. I just like to have more in savings, especially being a one-income now. Well, you're about to go through this storm with this divorce. And so we want you to make as few decisions as possible and only make the ones that are going to free you up emotionally,

financially, to get you to whatever's next. So don't make any huge decisions. After listening to you, just sell that other house. Because that payment was going to be really high for me. We're just big fans of freedom. The payment would have been over 25% of my take home. Yeah, that's not going to be a high for me. We're just big fans of freedom. The payment would have been over 25% of my take home. Yeah, that's not going to be a blessing to you. No stress.

You've already got enough going on emotionally. You don't need to put pressure on yourself financially. So, yeah, George is right. Short-term play on the property. The minute you get stabilized, get savings up where you want to be for a down payment then sell that other property and cut up the cards once they're paid off yeah you don't need them cut them up now and then pay them off but these are not a blessing to you yeah i know i barely use them um i really do i it just had that one because it had a zero percent but you

fell for the zero percent promotional and now we're making payments. I can pay it off. I'll pay it off. You're a hardworking person. Pay it off at my car. You can fund your own fence. You don't need them. Cut it up before you pay it off. Cut the card up. They're not your friend.

All right. Well, thank you so much, Melissa. There's a lot going on in your life, and we're wishing you the best as you step forward. And hopefully the financial part, once that's cleaned up, you can see the forest from the trees and make some decisions out of wisdom and calm. That's what we want. Yeah. I hear stories like that. And I loved your advice, George. And it just reminds me of something I've heard said a million times. The best way to deal with complexity is simplicity. When the life is so complex, the best way out of it is not adding more. I thought you were going to go with Henry David Thoreau. Simplify, simplify, simplify.

I knew you were going to pick it up somehow, George. I knew if I handed you the ball, you were going to run up the middle with it. You lost me with the sports analogy, Ken. We were doing great on the poetry, and then you lost me. Well, George, I have hope. I have hope that I can bring you into the fold to understand what sports really are. I missed the T on that one. There you go. Hey, more of the Ramsey Show coming up and more terrible really are. I missed the T on that one. There you go.

Hey, more of the Ramsey Show coming up and more terrible punts. I'm George Campbell. He's Ken Coleman. Guys, I mean literally just the guys right now. I know finding that perfect gift for that special lady in your life can feel impossible. But I got you. I'm here for you. Forget doom scrolling Amazon lists and Pinterest boards. Just get her the new 2023 Ramsey Gold Planner. Now this isn't just any box store gold planner that you could get at the dollar store at Target. We literally took customer suggestions from last year's version and did a complete remix on it.

It's got a gorgeous new cover that our amazing design team produced, and it's a more convenient on-the-go size, and it has new monthly teachings from Rachel Cruz, Dr. John Deloney, and yours truly, me, George Campbell. So what better way to show her than you care than to give her a gift that will inspire and motivate her to go after her spiritual, financial, and relationship goals. Guys, this is a gift she'll actually love and that she'll actually use. No guessing on this one. And our goal planners sell out quickly every year. We only get a certain amount and every single year they sell out. So do not wait. Go get yours today at ramsaysolutions.com slash planner. That's ramsysolutions.com. Open phones this hour, 888-825-5225.

Aaron joins us up next in Indianapolis. Aaron, can we hear you loud and clear this time? Yeah, thanks for taking my call. Oh, you sound like a peach. Love it. How can we help today? A peach? That's right. Yeah, all right. I am currently in Baby Step 2.

I make about $55,000 a year, and however, my work is very seasonal. I'm a flight instructor, so I've saved up about $4,000 over the course of the summer, and I'm wondering if I should put that towards my debt or if I should hold that off for like a rainy day when the winter comes since I'll be flying less in the wintertime. My income drops about 60-ish percent in the winter. Can you pick up another job in the wintertime when things are slow? I actually currently have three jobs and I do do pick up, like, seasonal work in the wintertime that I could do, too. But the income still drops, even with the additional jobs? It's just very hard for the jobs to schedule me, because, like, if it's a good weather day, for example, like the middle of December, you know, I would make more money flying than I would, you know, at a, you know, you know, packing boxes. But you're, it's, it's, you're not sure when you're going to be working

in the wintertime. It's sporadic. Well, I wonder if something more steady would even out to be more income than that seasonal work in the winter. It feels like you've got this a little bit reversed. I certainly understand the math of, well, if we have a really nice weather day in December, then I'm going to make more money getting out flying. But you're putting at risk so much income potential, and I would flip that. I would go, you know what? I'm going to spend most of my time flying in the good weather months and then come winter time, I'm going to do something much more stable

or I'm going to start doing some night shifts or whatever. So if we do have the occasional good weather day in Indianapolis, and I think you know what that weather pattern looks like, I would just make some moves to where we're relying on the three other side jobs or whatever during the bad season or the winter season rather uh then i would just go well i'm gonna line these up but everything else falls

falls to the side so that i can get up in the air does it make sense it's just you're you're not getting ahead when you could be getting ahead yeah that makes. How much debt do you have? About $77,000. I started out with $90,000 but paid off $13,000 while I was in college. What kind of debt is that? It's student loans. All $77,000 is student loans? Yeah. Ouch. Dude, what are your hours? Let's go to your real life situation. It's December, January, and it's a good weather day in indy what are the hours that you would be flying uh maximum i'm allowed to work by by law is eight hours a day i understand that i'm saying what's that window usually look like is it usually just during the day or does it include some nighttime flying it does include some nighttime flying so

i'm usually flying like 12 hours or i'm usually in the office like 12 hours a day from like seven to seven. Yeah. I just think you have to put that aside. I think you need steady, really good income work. What's the end game for you, Aaron? You want to be a flight instructor long-term? No, I want to make it to the airlines, so that's why I'm building my hours now. Okay. How far are you into that process? I am very close. I have about 800 hours, and I need 1,000. So I'm 200 hours shy. Okay. And at that point, you could go apply and work at the airlines, making more money?

Yeah. Yep. Okay. It sounds like until then, we're not going to clean up this debt, making $55,000 with $77,000 in front of us, unless we are working way over time, taking other jobs, side hustles, you name it. Mm-hmm. And so that's what I'm leaning towards that option right now. While you get your hours, is there something else you could be doing to clean up this debt?

Are there any other expenses you can shave? I mean, right now I'm living my produce full goal. I only live off of like $1,000 a month. Yeah, this is all about income. And I'm going to go back to what I told you earlier when you said that makes sense. So I'm going to repeat that in your brain. That's what this is.

This is an income issue. And you can't get your income up. You're so close, but you've got to get your income up in the off season. This is straightforward. There's no other option here. You're young. You don you've got to get your income up in the offseason. This is straightforward. There's no other option here. You're young. You don't need to have a life.

Go work, work, work, work, work, and knock this debt out. $77,000, a lot of debt, and you don't want to get into the airline and be dragging all that debt along with you. So go after this thing. What was your degree in? Aviation and flight science. Okay, cool. So we're using that at least. Oh, yeah degree in? Aviation flight science. Okay, cool. So we're using that at least.

Oh, yeah, he's on a great track. It's just we're not going to play this, well, it's seasonal. No, when I'm not flying, when there's not a lot of flying hours, I am working my fanny on right now. Yeah. Thanks for the question. Appreciate it, Aaron. Keisha's up next in New York City.

Keisha, welcome to the show. Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? Okay. All right. I'm a little nervous. So I'm a registered nurse, and I work for a company. I'm currently on maternity leave now, but I was unfortunately displaced a couple months after being in maternity leave. I recently have an offer from the same company for the emergency room, but then I also have an offer for the oncology suite that I used to work at, but it's a different unit.

It's not the same exact unit, but it's under the same management, but it's coming from like kind of like a toxic type of management. So, and another backstory, I'm also a graduate student about to graduate for my family and expectation in December. Do I bite the bullet and go back to what I know, or do I just leave that toxic situation and go on to embark in the ED for a couple months until I get my career rolling?

Is that move that you just gave us there, the second option, so not going back to the toxic environment but taking the second option, is that going to be an interruption in income? Is it going to be the same amount of income? What's that going to look like? So it would be like a lateral thing. It would be the same pay because we're unionized, so it's the same pay. Then I would do that. But the ED? Yeah. Why would you go back to toxicity when you're not going to be there long-term anyway, right? True. So what's pulling you back

towards that? It's what you know. It's just comfort? I'm just going to tell you. I'm going to tell you what it is because I want you to agree or disagree because I may be wrong. I think it's because you would rather be comfortable in misery than uncomfortable in something you don't know. And so you go, oh, it's miserable, it's toxic, but at least I know what to expect and I can get through it versus the change, the unknown. Yes, you nailed it. I know. I've heard this call a few thousand times and it's okay to feel that way. It's natural because the change and the unknown is horrifying

sometimes. But let me just simplify it for you. Do you have the ability to do this new job and do it well? Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I'm a fast learner. You're a fast learner. You got high character, high integrity, don't you? Yes, I do. What would have to be true for you to fail miserably at that?

You'd have to do something stupid. Yeah, not do it. Do something stupid. Be lazy, dishonest. None of those things are going to happen. You know that. Take that position. And as you're finishing up the credentialing and the education piece to get you where you want to go, try a new environment, hopefully a much healthier environment. Don't go back to toxicity just because you know it. Great wisdom there. Thanks so much for the question, Keisha. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books.

My thanks to Ken Coleman, my co-host, all the folks in the booth, and you, America. We'll be back with you before you know it. Hey, folks. Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.