The Ramsey Show - App - Forbearance Isn't a Blessing - It's a Form of Denial (Hour 1)

Episode Date: April 29, 2020

Chris Hogan, Career, Home Buying, Debt, Savings Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us. Chris Hogan, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of several books, including the Everyday Millionaire book, joins me this hour to answer your questions. Welcome back, Chris. Well, thank you, sir. It is always good to be with you.

For those of you hearing us live today, Chris is a taped version of the Rachel Ray show. He was on a Rachel Ray show taping uh oddly the week before they closed new york yeah we were up there doing some media stuff and uh we left on thursday night monday they closed it yeah and uh it was pretty sparse when we were there but uh um but it was the i mean we were there the last week really that's exactly right i'm sure rachel wasn't taping the next week so rachel ray event, a Rachel Ray show out today around America, whatever time it is in your area. Be sure and turn it on. Chris Hogan is a guest, and she's a lot of fun.

We've all done her show several times. The team behind the scenes is wonderful. Yes. And she's quick and she's fun she really is dave that whole team is fantastic had an opportunity to uh do a co-host segment with rachel and nate burleson of the nfl network oh and so uh we got a big kick and got a chance to talk about a lot of issues plaguing the nfl and so he asked me to kind of connect with him so we can try to help those guys as well oh fun yeah fun. Yeah. Very cool.

Yeah. So it was good. Now, Dave, they did not let me cook. I just want America to know this. I was not cooking on the show. We were talking about money. That's because they don't have a grill. That's true.

That is true, Dave. But then that's the only time you cook. That's, well. Okay. That's right. So it's limited tools available. The only ones you know how to use were not available. That's right. So I stayed out of it.

There's a frying pan there, but that's not much good for you. Sauce pan there, not much good for you. Pretty much has to have smoke and be outside for you to do it. And some fire, Dave. That's it, fire. Need fire. Yeah. Neanderthal, that's what I'm saying.

Me too, man. Me too. Can't cook anything unless it's outside. That's right. All right, Candace is in Texas. Hey, Candace, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How can we help you today? Hi.

So we are in Baby Stepmother 4, so our only debt is our mortgage. And today we found out that my husband's contract position with his company is ending on Friday. And our mortgage company is offering a forbearance option for COVID related income issues. And I was just wondering if I get your advice on whether we should take the forbearance or use our emergency fund money that we just finished saving to pay for our mortgage and expenses. Yeah. So what does he do? He works in the health care industry in the advertising space. Okay. So if he's on contract, his job is come and go anyway, isn't it? Well, the contract was actually over,

and they just kept him going for months and months now because they really like him, but the company that he is contracted through, they just have kept him. So what was his plan career-wise if the contract had ended, other than in the middle of coronavirus? They put a freeze on hiring. That company wanted to hire him. So his plan was for that company to hire him?

Yes, and I think their plan was eventually to hire him, but because of all this stuff, they were on a freeze beforehand, and so once they were off the freeze, they were going to... So what did he make? What was his income? I want to say around $70,000. We're both full-time employed also. Also, in addition to this? No, I have a full-time position as well.

So what do you make? I make $105,000. Why can't you pay your house payment? I think we probably could make our house payment. I think you can too. Especially with our... Make $105,000 a year. We just bought this house, so I'm just nervous.

Yeah. I think... You're freaking out, but you're not doing math. Okay. Let's do math, okay? $105,000 a year. How much is your house payment? It's $3,700.

$3,700 a month? $3,700, yes. Thank you. Big house. Okay. All right. So you have an $8,000, $7,000 take-home pay, so it's 50% of your take-home pay. Dadgum, big old house. All right. So you have an $8,000, $7,000 take-home pay, so it's 50% of your take-home pay. Dad gum, big old house.

All right. And he used to make $70,000, so what's he going to do? Is he going to go get a job or is he going to sit on his butt? I think he's already started talking to some people that we know and sending out. Good. His nuts and fillers. Chris and I have been talking a lot about the forbearance stuff lately. I'm going to tell you, Candace, I would stay away from the forbearance.

The only thing that's going to happen with that is that, A, they're going to either delay or extend your period of indebtedness. As Dave said, do the math, make the payment on this. This is not something you need to play around with. But I would tell you this, the most important thing your husband needs from you right now is encouragement for him to reach out to coworkers, colleagues, and as soon as he can get money coming in, the better off he's going to be psychologically and you guys will be financially. So that's the route I'm going to go. You guys stay plugged in, but you're going to have to

delete the unnecessary things out of your budget. As Dave and I have been calling it, this is conserve mode right now. And so you guys need to get really, really intentional. Don't keep life going as you know it. You've taken a $70,000 pay cut right now. And until that gets fixed, life needs to change. Yeah, but if it takes a month to fix it, you've got plenty of money. You're in good shape.

You can do this for a month to fix it. It's fine. You know, you've got plenty of money. You're in good shape. You can do this for a month. You don't want to have a house payment that's 50% of your take-home pay for five years, but for four months or something, you're going to be okay, and you've got an emergency fund to backfill. See, forbearance doesn't mean forgiveness. It just means kick the can down the road. It means that, you know, if you don't pay the payment this month, you've got to pay it next month, and if you don't pay it next month,

you've got to pay two payments the next month. And if you don't pay the payment this month, you've got to pay it next month. And if you don't pay it next month, you've got to pay two payments the next month. And if you don't pay it the next month, by September you've got four payments that you're going to owe. And so it's not really a blessing. It's a form of denial. And I would rather you go ahead and deal with it, tighten up your budget, pay the payment. If you have to dip into your emergency fund a little bit, but I don't even think you have to dip into your emergency fund a little bit but i don't even think you have to dip into it i think you can exist if you stop everything else right now uh accept that and then have him get on ken coleman's website and learn everything he can about getting his job replaced really really fast and uh hold on we'll send you a copy of ken's book the proximity

principle and get you going dave you you've been a real estate, and you're a whole lot older than me. Oh. A whole lot older. Oh. But the term forbearance, back in your day, I was always taught that that meant that whatever was behind had to be made up before moving forward. Yeah. Okay. Forbearance. What you and I have done in coaching and counseling and what you're referring to is if somebody comes into the office and they're three house payments behind, we'll jump on the phone as a coach with the mortgage company and work out a forbearance.

And they send you a forbearance agreement. And if there are three payments behind, it might be that you pay double payments for three months. Or it might pay you a payment and a half for six months. But there's a get current process. And all forbearance the word literally just means patience ah it does not mean forgiveness i didn't know that it means we're going to work it out over the next little while but if you just don't pay it at all you're just piling it up and you're going to look up in september and oh four payments and 3 700 bucks a pop that's called 16 000 it's a lot of money. With late charges and everything else. That's right. No, thank you.

For most of us, health care costs seem to increase every year, and saving money on health insurance feels more and more out of reach. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Cherise had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had a health scare involving one of their kids that was completely unexpected. With today's health care climate, this could have bankrupted them. But thanks to Christian health care ministries, the Olcheskis were spared from a ton of medical bills. As members of Christian health care ministries, they're part of a group of medical bills. As members of Christian Healthcare Ministries, they're part of a group of believers who financially and spiritually support each other.

CHM is the original health cost sharing ministry and is a Better Business Bureau accredited charity. It's biblical, affordable, and it's shared nearly $97,000 to help the Olcheskis. To be a part of Christian Healthcare Ministries, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Juan is with us in New York. Hey, Juan, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up? So my wife and I, we've been following your program. We just started Baby Step 4. And we want to buy a property. And we've been looking at properties about 30 to 40 minutes away from where we each work. And a house that we like is about $400,000, and an apartment is about $300,000. So the reason I called is to ask you, because you've been in real estate for a long time,

what kind of questions should we be asking ourselves? What should we be contemplating to determine which one of those two avenues to go to head towards? All right. You're in the Manhattan area, that part of New York? Bronx. Bronx, okay. All right.

So an apartment or a condominium in that area is a completely different animal than it might be in other parts of the nation. So, you know, it may be the only thing you can afford when you look at it. What you're always looking at with any property is the future of the property. How's it going to, how's it going to go? Is it going to, is the property in the neighborhood getting better, or is the property in the neighborhood getting worse? If it's got HOA fees, and most of them do in those situations, or some kind of condominium fees or apartment fees or whatever for maintenance, you need to look at their budget and see what, if they've got, the roofs are going to have to be replaced in two years and they have no money saved for that,

then they're going to do a special assessment and hammer you for roofing cost if they haven't managed their budget well. If they've managed their budget well, they have reserves for each of the major repairs in that account. And you can see that in the HOA documentation before you go in. So I want to make sure the HOA is being run well. I'll make sure the property is being kept up. I'll make sure it is a property in a neighborhood that's going up in value.

And if you get that versus a home that doesn't have all of those things, then the apartment's a better deal, especially around New York where, you know, buying an apartment is buying a co-op, buying a condominium is much more common than it would be in a lot of other areas of the country. So, you know, and Chris, you know, even in something like Nashville, where we are, which is a completely different real estate market, you know, a condominium, you can get great condominiums around here that do really, really well, and you can really get into some dumps. Yeah, you really can. And I think it

really goes back, Juan, to being aware of, are you out of debt? Do you have a fully funded emergency fund? And do you have a minimum of 10% down? Looking at this, and Dave, I've been telling people, regardless of what mortgage rates are doing, I'm not letting the market dictate what I do. I'm making sure that I'm financially ready to go forward with whatever decision I'm making. Yeah. He said he'd maybe step forward. So he would be out of debt, have his emergency fund. That's right. And now he's saving for the down payment. And so that means you're ready.

But just because rates are low doesn't mean you go buy a house with $30,000 in student loan debt. Murphy, you have to buy an extra bedroom for Sally Mae because you've got this big, ugly woman in your house. Or if your parents are telling you you need to buy or your friends are telling you you need to buy, that's not a reason. No, no, you're ready to buy when you're ready to buy. That's right. When you buy something that's on sale and you're broke, it's not a bargain. Mm. You know, it's a curse.

It's not good for you. Tosin is with us. Tosin is in Maryland. Hi, Tosin. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and Chris. It's good to get to talk to you both. My wife and I currently

make too much money to qualify for a Roth IRA, but a couple of years ago before we got married, before she met me, her father gifted her a Roth IRA with a couple of thousand dollars in it. So we're not quite sure what to do with it now since we can't add more to it.

We're not quite sure how to convert that to a backdoor Roth. What's your recommendation? I would just let it sit there. I'd drop it into some mutual funds. And you can do backdoor Roths regardless of your income. I do them every year. And you mentioned that, so you're aware of those? Right, I am.

But I'm a question if we can take that from a Roth IRA into a backdoor Roth. No, there's no need. It's already in a Roth. The reason for doing a backdoor Roth is to get money into a Roth IRA, not to get it out. Right, gotcha. So we just leave that alone. Yeah, leave it alone other than it needs to go in good mutual funds. And so it sounds like you guys are killing it.

What's your household income? About $400. Way to go, man. That's awesome. Congratulations. How old are you? Thank you. 29.

Wow. Fun. Well done. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a physician, and she works for the FDA. Wow. Very good. Touchdown, baby.

You're winning. That's awesome. Yeah, do a couple of backdoor Roths. And in the scope of your world, the $2,000 old Roth and the backdoor Roths don't even matter. But I do them, and I make more than that. But I still, Sharon and I still do Roth IRAs. Yeah. But backdoor Roths. Yeah.

And people out there that are hearing that, the backdoor Roth is where you open up a traditional, but you go ahead and convert it by paying the taxes. So you've got an opportunity to be able to do this. Now, again, hearing about this and you're going, all right, hold on, Dave and Chris, you've got me taking this step, this step, this step. First and foremost, you don't have to do it alone. All you have to do is get connected with a SmartVestor Pro. These are people Dave and I have vetted.

They are going to guide you in the way that we teach. Go to DaveRamsey.com. You can click on Endorse Local Provider and SmartVestor Pros and find somebody in your area. So I don't ever want you to feel alone because you aren't. You are just a click away from reaching out and connecting with a professional that will guide you the right way. Now, to keep the hate mail from the nerds off of us, let's give them one minor correction. You're not opening a traditional. You're opening an after-tax traditional, and you immediately roll that to a Roth.

There is no taxes involved. Yes. So you don't do a traditional and then pay the taxes. You do an after-tax and then roll it immediately to a Roth. There is no taxes involved. So you don't do a traditional and then pay the taxes. You do an after tax and then roll it immediately to a Roth. Adam is with us. Adam is going to be... Where did he go? Where did he go? There he is. Adam's

in Texas. Hi, Adam. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How are you doing, Dave? I appreciate you accepting my call. Sure. What's up? So I have a question slash motivation issue issue i have over 180 000 of student loans oh my god i have a small are you a doctor or a lawyer no i did get my master's degree but it was in criminal justice and but i i worked for the military and I'm about to retire.

Why did they not pay for it? Because most of the student loans are private student loans, and their money does not pay for it. I got my college education prior to joining the military. So you've had the $180,000 for years? I have. Well, it's grown to be about $180,000 for years? I have. Okay. Well, it's grown to be about $180,000.

Wow. So currently I'm about to retire from the military, medical, and I'm working on trying to get another job prior to exiting out of the military. However, I'm having difficulty finding the motivation to get out of the debt. I discovered you and your program about this past December and found out a lot of things that I did I did incorrectly. So what is your career plans? If everything went really good, what would you be doing?

If everything goes well, I would be working for Customs, Border Patrol, and I would have a lot bigger shovel. Making what kind of money? Over $100,000 a year. Wonderful. Okay. Well, that's what we need to scratch and claw and make happen then. Because you've obviously listened to us because you're talking about the size of your shovel versus the $180,000 hole that you're in.

And that math gives you a lot more hope. And when you've got hope, sometimes we call that motivation. I know part of that has to do with my medical issues, whether or not I'll be able to get that job. Yeah. Well, if you don't, you've got to find a plan B that sounds a lot like that. Because scratching and clawing and working your way through this and finding a way to keep your get your income going and get

your income up at least for a period of time it may be working like a maniac to be able to knock this out because that's the only thing that's not going away until you do that ouch Ouch. You may feel like there's not a lot you can control these days, but I'm here to tell you, you can control your budget and you can control what you feed your family. My longtime friends at eMeals are here to help. They have simplified meal plans and created new recipe collections such as easy pantry meals and freezer meals utilizing basic ingredients it has never been easier to shop smarter and stay on a budget try it free for two full weeks at e-meals.com K is with us in Florida. Hi, Kay.

Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. How can Chris and I help? Hi, Dave, and hi, Chris. My question is, my ultimate goal is really to pay off my mortgage early, so I'm wondering if I should continue to invest. So I'm on steps four, five, and six, and my fiance and I were doing some kind of planning together since we're getting married in a few months.

Yay! And we want to begin. Yeah, so we want to begin. Yeah. Yeah, so we want to begin having kids like five years or so. And the goal is that by the time that we want to have kids, we want to have a paid-for house so that we can live on one salary. I can stay home, take care of kids like for a couple years or so. Are there kids already?

Well, I guess. No, no. Then there's not a baby step five. Not married yet. No kids. Then there's not a baby step five. No there's not a baby step five. No kids, no baby step five. Correct. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, debt-free except for our house. Okay. So our mortgage is $165,000. I know what you're saying, not combine it till we're married, but you know, just kind of talking for future sense. And we kind of realized that if we put down an extra like

$40,000 a year on the house, we could pay it off pretty quickly, you know. The idea, I already have that money saved to throw at it at the end of the year. I'm just kind of, we debated about this. I mean, is it worth to continue to invest or to just keep stocking up more money to throw at the home? Okay, what is baby step four? What is baby step four? That's invest uh 15 okay not not 28 not 32 15 okay and then what's baby step six that is when you are paying your house your house

early yep that's correct everything above the 15 right yeah so what's your question i guess my my debate in my head was kind of like why do i want to continue to invest when i just i just see that goal for ourselves like the thing is you want to stop the 15 that's kind of what i was debating on. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. Listen here. Okay. Do you want to retire someday?

Oh, yeah. Don't you have dreams that you and your husband want to go do? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, listen, four, five, and six are done all at the same time. You don't have kids, so there is no five. So you were investing 15% for the future, and you're throwing the extra money toward the house. What's your household income?

What will it be when you're married? I'm sorry, you're getting married in a few months. That's what we're talking about. What will your household income be at marriage? Yeah, $125,000 together. I make $80,000. He makes like $45,000. Good. And so how much do you owe on the

mortgage uh 165 oh nothing okay good okay and so we're talking about putting uh twenty thousand dollars a year into your 401ks roughly 15 of 125 right um and everything above that you throw at the mortgage and you've already got some money above your emergency fund in a pile somewhere, it sounded like. Did I understand that right? And that's like $40,000 above your emergency fund? Correct. Okay, so now we have a mortgage of $115,000.

Yeah. And you make $125,000. And you make $125,000? And you make $125,000? Well, yeah, together we will basically. But together you'll have a mortgage of $115,000 when you put the $40,000 on the mortgage, and you'll be saving $20,000 a year out of your $125,000. You don't have any other bills, and you only owe $115,000 on your house. You're going to pay the thing off in about three years.

Well, hold on, Dave. Kay, how much of that $40,000 were you using toward the wedding? So that basically, we are having parents pay for a lot of the wedding. So we already kind of have some money earmarked for honeymoon kind of stuff and extra. So this $40,000 is free money. This money is... And so the question is whether we invest it or whether we throw it at the mortgage. And so based on the baby steps you throw it at the mortgage, you knew that, right?

Yeah. So now you've got a $115,000 mortgage from $155,000 minus $40,000, right? That's right. Did I do something wrong? Nope. Okay. It sounds right. I just was worried about, you know, if I have this certain goal, like to pay it off early. I mean, I just don't. Okay. Yeah, it sounds right. I just was worried about, you know, if I have this certain goal, like to pay it off early.

I mean, I just don't. Okay, you have a $115,000 mortgage and you make $125,000 a year. Look at those two ratios. It's going to go fast. It's going to go real fast. It is. I mean, you're going to have it paid off before you even have a kid. Yeah.

Probably. And Kay, here's the other side. I love that you have plans and goals, but your fiance needs to be involved in this as well. She said they're planning it together. Well, it sounds like he got voluntold what's going down. And so just make sure you're including. We may have just been a tiebreaker.

We could have been. We might have had on our jersey here, our striped jersey with the whistle. We're referees. Yeah, out of bounds. Throw the flag. But i like the spirit i like the focus you guys have and that you're thinking in the future and being intentional uh but don't stop investing okay here's here's the lesson from this call k okay for everybody listening and for you what i did was really simple you were thinking in general concepts of saying in a in a philosophical discussion

i'd like to pay my house off early and all i did was say well i kind of agree but with the exception of the 15 going in and baby step four but when you put actual numbers to it it kind of makes your philosophical thing of i want to pay my house off look kind of like it's going to happen real fast. So it kind of takes away all the angst. When you put some numbers to your discussions, folks, and actually look and go, okay, when we're doing baby step four, how much does that really delay the house being paid off? Not so much.

That's why it's designed that way and so um you know when you actually put the numbers to it okay what is really 15 percent of our income as opposed to our mortgage as opposed to our income and when you look at those three pieces of those three numbers floating right there on the table they start talking to you it gets real and you go i can do this it's kind of like people have this discussion of well you know i could i could invest and uh and i could make you know i can make 12 on my money and uh and not pay it down on my mortgage i'm like how much are you talking about investing a thousand dollars well okay well what's the difference in three percent and five percent or eight twelve percent on a thousand dollars nothing nothing when you add it up and

you multiply it up and you multiply it out the number of dollars involved the nominal dollars for this philosophical discussion doesn't even make the discussion worthwhile in her case it's a worthwhile discussion but yeah that's all i did to you k was i took your philosophical angst um your financial philosophical angst and put numbers to it and it goes away the angst goes away well speaking of philosophical discussion years ago back when i was doing financial coaching i was working with a college professor and he told me mathematically that i was incorrect about the debt snowball yeah and he said that if you're dealing in math he goes you attack the highest interest rate and he went on and on and on and i said well sir if you're learning to do math you wouldn't be

in debt because interest that you pay is a penalty. And interest that you earn is a reward. And he kind of put his head down for a second. He looked up at me. He said, forgive me, sir. Please proceed. His philosophical thing just went out the window and he saw it in a different light. And that made me happy.

Yeah. If we were doing math, we wouldn't have credit. We wouldn't have debt. That's right. Credit card. That's right. We wouldn't have credit card debt. That's right. It's just, you know, under what condition, if you were doing math, would you intentionally go into debt at 22% interest? That's right.

Never! That's right. Never going to happen. Never. And so it breaks the whole thing down. It changes the whole thing out. So that's serious fun right there. I love it.

All right, guys. Open phones at 888-825-5225 and so you know all i'm saying there k k we're not making fun of you're not picking on you for the question because it was actually a good question but what we want you guys to learn chris and i and all of us at ramsey from this show or anytime we're teaching or writing a book is we want you to see okay this critical thinking skill was used to clear up the fog now i can do that next time and so you know i i don't what i want to teach you how to do is to think through these things i don't want you to just do what dave said or do what chris said chris has got a voice to make you want to do what he said but

you don't want to just do what he said you want to know why. Chris has got a voice that will make you want to do what he said, but you don't want to just do what he said. You want to know why. You want to be like a little 10-year-old boy. Why? Why, Mommy? Why? Why? Why?

Why? Why? Why do you say that? What's the background on that? And a lot of the questions we get really are, why do you all say to do the baby steps this way? That's right. Why do you do that snowball wrong math with the math being wrong?

Why? And those are reasonable questions because that then gives you the knowledge to go, based on that, I can decide I'm either going to agree with that critical thinking skill or I'm going to develop my own. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Please hear me loud and clear. The government is not going to bail you out of your student loans, at least not completely and not without a catch. What they're talking about only impacts federal, not private loans,

and you need to take responsibility for what you owe and pay your debt down quicker. Right now, Splash Financial is offering their lowest rates ever. With lower rates and extra payments, you could just find yourself debt-free in the next five years. Visit splashfinancial.com slash Ramsey to see if you qualify. Money and Marriage Hope Edition live stream tonight at 7 p.m. For those of you hearing the show today live on Wednesday, April 29th, the show, the Money in Marriage event, Hope Edition live stream is tonight. It'll be featuring, of course, Rachel Cruz and Dr. Les Parrott, who always do the Money in Marriage events,

but this time they'll be doing it from their own freaking living room, I suspect, or from Rachel may be down here at the studio. I don't know what she's doing. And then we're adding our brand-new Ramsey personality, Dr. John Deloney, and so it's really money, marriage, and mental health. So get to work with your relational IQ. And we've seen divorces go up. We've seen even domestic violence numbers go up during the coronavirus. Horrible, horrible number.

And we know, all of us know at Ramsey, that money and marriage is a combustive, it's a chemistry set. It really and truly is. And to have an opportunity to be able to watch this from your home with your spouse is going to give you a great opportunity to really begin to find what you have in common, begin to connect on those goals so you can work toward them. I know Rachel Cruz and Dr. Les Barrett, you're going to have a good time. You're going to laugh. You're going to learn some stuff. But above all, you're going to get some skills that you can apply to your life right now. Really, Deloney's going to fit in with him because he's a big cut-up. So he's funny as crap. So you're going to enjoy him. And he's a brand-new Ramsey personality, so you're going to enjoy this. But he's done so much crisis counseling that he's really got a lot of very important things to say, but he's also fun.

And so you can get your tickets. They're only $10 at DaveRamsey.com slash events. Again, a Money in Marriage live stream tonight, the Hope Edition. It's live, literally, so it's not going to be like, it's not a replay of something we did a while back and that kind of thing. Again, $10 for Money in Marriage digital event tonight. We hope you tune in 7 o'clock Central Time. And just DaveRamsey.com slash events, $10 and you're in.

That's it. And just turn on in your living room and sit there and watch it while you're having your evening meal if you want. That's right. Kind of perfect, you know. Pull you up a glass of water or something else and sit there and have you a good old time. Have a good time. Hey, Dave, by the way, I got a lot of mentions on social media about you and I, our event in Charleston that was shown.

People really enjoyed that. Someone said, Hogan, I didn't know you were that funny. And I was like, wow, okay, well. I just thought you were scary. Just, okay, Dave. They thought I was huggable. I'm huggable. I'm huggable. But they really enjoyed the event.

You got an opportunity. This is the financial piece live that we travel around and do in your city. Keep an eye open. Anthony O'Neill and I do it. Dave will join us on a couple out there. We have a lot of fun. We used to get Rachel occasionally, but she doesn't want to work with us. No, she won't work with us anymore.

She's got less paired with her money and marriage stuff. But if we're coming to your area, I'm telling you, circle your calendar because it is a fantastic event. We have a lot of fun as well as teach you a lot of information. And we, we just have a blast. You know, truthfully, when I started teaching this stuff years ago, um, I realized pretty quickly that there's three negative emotions around the subject of money that are really big blockers. They're big shields that keep you from enjoying the topic, learning from someone else on the topic, and that kind of a thing. And that is cynicism. If you've been screwed or tattooed by money people, and most of us have, then you get your cynicism shield up, right?

And then the other two are cousins, and that's guilt and shame. Yeah. You know, condemnation. You feel condemned. You feel overwhelmed. You feel inadequate. And so, you know, and then we start shoveling some pretty tough messages at you, and we determined a long time ago that the only way this whole money thing works

and the reason we've been so successful at it at Ramsey is that humor is absolutely necessary. It helps, you know, a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down, Mary Poppins, the famous philosopher said. And so, you know, you got to laugh every few minutes in a money live event or it turns into your mother's 401k meeting which is a root canal you know and so all of us at Ramsey that speak for a living have honed our craft and we're well aware when we're doing a serious subject right in particular that you've got to laugh ever so often no it's really important and we are definitely intentional about talking about that especially our own mistakes, talking

about the things that we've done wrong and what we've learned and how it's turned our lives around. And I'm going to tell you something. All of us here are living these principles and walking through it. And it makes such a difference. That's why we speak about it so emphatically, because we want other people to come join us. You know, we've been in that spot where you're frustrated and irritated and guilt, shame, and cynicism

will haunt you. And you've got an opportunity to shake yourself free of that. You just need the right information and the right attitude. Brian is in California. Hey, Brian, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. All right, Dave. Enjoy your show and the good

advice you give. And when you follow it, then you have a question like I have. I'm sort of looking for a philosophical discussion. Do you give money to your adult children now when they're in their 30s? Or do you hold off and provide it as part of your estate when you're gone? What do you think? Well, there's two or three elements of that that I look at and that I've looked at with my own Ramsey kids that are all adults at this point. Number one element is are they being responsible or are they misbehaving?

If they're misbehaving and I give them money, all I'm going to do is magnify their misbehavior, whatever the misbehaving. If they're misbehaving and I give them money, all I'm going to do is magnify their misbehavior, whatever the misbehavior is. I mean, if they're doing drugs or they just won't work much or they're irresponsible or they're impulsive, but if they're doing a good job, you know, they're being reasonable people, they're mature, they're saving money, they're giving money, they have a plan, they're working together with their spouse, they're not lying to each other about purchases and, you know, that kind of stuff. They've got a good healthy money situation. Then you'll magnify the healthy situation when you give them money. And so you're not enabling bad behavior at that point. The second variable is, of course, the size of your estate.

If your estate is in excess of $20 million, you have gotten into serious federal estate tax problems. And I don't know how big your estate is, but if you're there, you're much better off to offload some of that systematically to keep the government's hands off of it if it is in the estate. But let's say you've got five or ten million dollars. You're more than okay. Do you want to give each one of them a hundred grand and pay off their house or something? Yeah, if they're responsible, I would do that. But I don't want to magnify, because whatever you give them money, anytime there's more money involved than there was, it magnifies what was already there in all of our lives. If they got a temper, they'll have a bigger temper when you've got more money. And so we talk about that in Legacy Journey a lot is

in that sense. But Brian, how many kids do you have? I have two, a boy and a girl, and a woman, I guess, at this point. They're both working, responsible people. You know, in California, I wish you could pay off a mortgage with $100,000, Dave, but... Well, I'm just saying his example. I don't care if it's $300,000. How much money have you got? Between $10,000 and $15,000. Good for you awesome yeah i mean there's no reason to not offload some of that to them if you can do it in a way that's tax efficient um and you've got it you need to be with a good uh tax advisor as a part of your estate plan you can use the unified estate tax credit up to a point uh and you, keep from having gift tax on it and that kind

of thing. But yeah, I mean, if you got $15 million and you give each of them a million and it pays off their house in California, it's still okay. It is. And Dave, you have talked, and I remember years ago, I've been with you almost 15 years now, but you were talking about being very intentional and having conversations with your kids, helping them to be able to prepare them to be able to handle whatever is left of them.

And I took note of that, and I've passed that on to other people, and they've taken it to heart. It's an intentional meeting where you've got to help people get ready to handle wealth. Yeah, we've trained them. It sounds like his are already out of the house and grown. So, you know, I've had a friend in your situation, Brian, that did offload a couple million bucks to each kid or a million bucks to each kid, that kind of a thing, tax efficiently with good advice.

But he put some strings on it. He said, you need to sign a letter that says you're never going to borrow money again. I want to break the habit. I want to break the chain on my family tree right here. That's what it is. That's nice. He said, that's what I want for it. I don't want you to go further in debt my family tree right here. That's what it is. That's nice. And he said, that's what I want for it. I don't want you to go further in debt because I gave you this.

That's right. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Thanks for hanging out, Chris Hogan. Thank you for having me, Dave. In the middle of these uncertain times, Ramsey Solutions wants to give you some hope. For the very first time ever. We're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope so you can watch from home.