The Ramsey Show - App - Fraud Is a Good Reason To Nullify a Timeshare Contract! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: June 30, 2021

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Welcome Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show. Where debt is dumb, cash is king. The paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. This hour is dedicated to what has been called the greatest legal fraud in America today. Timeshares.

Timeshares. You've heard me talking about timeshares, and if you're a current timeshare owner or you are a former timeshare owner and you want to talk, today is your day. The phone number is 888-825-5225. We'd like to hear from you. Maybe you worked for or do work for these scumburgers, and you want to tell what really goes on behind the curtain. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, right, Mikey? Yeah. Mikey is Mike Flasky, the CEO of Diamond International,

one of the three largest timeshare providers in the world, and by far one of the scummiest. So Mikey and I have had interaction on Twitter. He calls me Davey, by the way. It's a mutual lovely affair we have going. So if you want to take our survey, we would love to hear from you. If you also are a Timeshare owner or former owner, text Timeshare to 33789. We're doing a research project on how dissatisfied the customers are.

And if you're satisfied, that's fine. Tell the truth. Maybe you love your timeshare. That would make you statistically unusual, but that's fine. We'd love to hear from you. I want actually real data on what's really going on out there in the real world, not from timeshare world, not from somewhere else. University of Central Florida did a survey that said 87% of the people they surveyed

hate their timeshare. They felt like they got ripped off. How do you stay in business when 87% of your customers think you screwed them? Well, W.C. Fields said it. A sucker's born every minute, right? I'm going to sell you a little swampland down here in Florida. That's how that'll work. So we had a lady contact Ramsey Care, our customer care team, asked to remain anonymous.

She worked for Wyndham, one of the big three timeshare providers, for 12 years selling timeshares. She was never a top producer because she didn't believe in Wyndham's hardcore selling techniques, especially for those who could afford the time share or could not afford it or were asked too many questions. She would let them walk. She quit working for Wyndham one month ago due to their lack of ethics. She wishes she'd quit years ago. I do too. She's on a journey to relive her life in truth. She cried, telling our team member as she feels horrible and ashamed. She's been an FPU coordinator.

Our principals here have set her on a great path. Here's what's interesting. She told our customer care team member that anyone who used me, Dave Ramsey, or Dave Ramsey principals or referenced me as a reason that they did not want to buy a timeshare in that Wyndham office were brought to a back room to meet privately with the manager who showed them a document that proved that Dave himself owned a Wyndham timeshare, but needed to keep it on the down low. Now, she knew that had to be false, and she tried to get a copy of it when she was leaving to get it to me, but couldn't get it.

They keep it highly protected. It's their secret weapon. And, of course, that's a lie. I mean, that one's come up before. And we're going to catch one of these guys doing this. We need to send somebody into one of these sales offices and use my name so they tell this lie that I own one, and we need to catch them in it. We're going to get you guys.

You know, you shouldn't be doing this stuff. You're scummy, but that's just ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. So we're going to try to get this lady on and talk to her live on the air soon. But, wow, how fun. How fun is that? uh it happens all the time see Wyndham has gotten in so much trouble and they've gotten so much negative press that earlier this month there was an announcement that Wyndham Destinations the

timeshare company is acquiring travel and leisureisure for $100 million. And then they will change their name, because their name sucks so bad. So many people associate it negatively. It's a bad brand. From Wyndham to Travel and Leisure Company. You know, the magazine Travel and Leisure, right? And why would a major company with one of the best-known brands in the industry change its name? Why would they pay $100 million for an associated brand in order to change their name to that?

Because that has a positive brand recognition. And Wyndham has screwed so many people for so long with timeshares that it has a negative brand recognition. Carrie says, my story doesn't actually involve me, but my Aunt Terry, my aunt was a wonderful lady, single all her life, no kids. About 15 years ago, she bought a timeshare through Wyndham with a dream to take her sister and nieces on vacation to Hawaii. Over the years, we'd travel to different Wyndhams, and my aunt would always get suckered into more presentations and buy more and more points. She spent thousands of dollars on this timeshare.

Long story short, she didn't save well for retirement, and in the end couldn't afford the timeshare payments, couldn't get out of the timeshare, and ended up filing for bankruptcy to get out of it. But only a few months later, ended up dying from cancer. The worst of it all was she never made it to Hawaii. The Wyndham never seemed to have any openings in Hawaii. It was strangely always booked. How convenient.

For 15 years, we could never get into the Hawaii location. Even though they kept promising my aunt if she just bought more points, she could get in. This is what these people do all the time diamond westgate windham blue green these are the four biggest ones and guys let me tell you you you do not pet a tiger when it hasn't eaten for three days. See, when you go and you sign up, I want a free vacation. I want a free vacation. I'm going to go.

I want tickets to the water park. And they give you free something, right? In return, you have to go to the sales presentation. And everyone, everyone goes to the sales presentation saying to themselves, oh, I have will, I have strong will, I cannot buy. I can sit through an hour, two-hour sales presentation and not buy. I know I can do that, and that's what the price is to get the free room. Let me just tell you, there is nothing greedier and hungrier than a timeshare salesman. When you make this bargain, effectively what you're doing is the zookeeper comes up and says,

hey, we'll give you a free pass to the zoo for a year, but all you gotta do is go into the tiger cage and sit and pet the tiger for two hours. By the way, the tiger's not eating in three days. He might be a bit hungry. He might be a little greedy. And so you're supposed to go into the tiger cage and pet the tiger for three hours, and then you get a free pass to the zoo. If you survive. No one does.

Very few people get out of the tiger cage alive. Most of them get eaten. And you know what eaten means. Now you're a timeshare owner. Oh, joyful. You've been screwed. That's what this amounts to. You want to talk about timeshares?

Obviously, I'm going to be doing that for the next, oh, 45 minutes or so. You jump in. The phone number is 888-825-5225. I want to hear from you. In an uncertain world, being a good steward of your money is more important than ever. While some circumstances can't be controlled, there are items within your budget you can take charge of, such as your health care costs. For nearly 40 years, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, has provided a budget-friendly means of sharing for medical bills when our members need it. Learn more by visiting chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org. That's chministries.org. So Hilton is buying Diamond International for $1.4 billion. Hilton, you're getting ready to screw up your brand.

Several of the shareholders at Hilton are objecting to the purchase. And there's some activist shareholders that are jumping out there trying to block the purchase. It's not closed yet. It should close in August. I think the Hilton board is going to go ahead with it because they've got their heads stuck up their timeshare. Because all they see is how much money Diamond makes, but they don't realize the brand damage they're going to do to the wonderful name of Hilton. Sad. Wonder if enough of you stockholders at Hilton actually raised your hand and said,

we don't want to own scummy stuff, if they would actually stop the deal. That'd be interesting. Debbie is in El Paso. Debbie, tell me your timeshare story. Hi, Dave. Well, speaking of Hilton, that is who I bought my timeshare from, Hilton Grand Vacations. Oh. Back in 2018.

Hmm. In Las Vegas. Mm-hmm. What happened? in Las Vegas. What happened? We got suckered into going to a presentation for, of course, a free weekend in Vegas. All expenses paid and all of the good stuff they try to throw in. We were promised a cruise as well, which we never took. And we went to the timeshare. We had our two boys with us that at the time were, I think, 12 and 15 years old.

And they stayed back at the room while we went to the presentation. And we were there probably at least three hours. And our presenter, you know, after meddling into our lives, he found out we were Christian and he kept throwing Christian scripture after scripture at us how God wanted to bless us and God's blessings were abundant and we should bless ourselves and our family with this great vacation home and we ended up doing it unfortunately how much did you pay for it Well, the total price on our contract was almost $35,000. And they were adamant about, well, we have this great offer. American Express is teaming up with us, Hilton, and we are offering this credit card.

You guys can put $8,000 down on it and and you get extra points right away, and everything will be great. So we signed up for the credit card, put $8,000 on that card right away, and they swooped us off to a different room to sign papers and this and that. And then they took us on a bus ride to a condo that was supposed to be exactly, excuse me, exactly like our condo that we just purchased, supposedly. It was a great place. It was overlooking Vegas with all the fancy things. It was like, I think, a five-bedroom suite and had pop-up TVs and every amenity you can think of. And they just told you, you know, you can invite your family and friends and come to Vegas on New Year's Eve. And so we were pretty excited about it until we got home. And, you know, we thought, okay, well, let's see if we can book this place for New Year's. And of course, no, that's not available. It's been booked out for years, and you only have a certain window that you can stay at one of our places,

which we didn't know at the time. Oh, wait a minute. So they lied to you? Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. Just making sure we're clear that Hilton Grand Vacations lied to Debbie in El Paso. Okay, I'm just making sure we get that straight. They did lie.

And, yeah, in fact, they said it wasn't a timeshare. This is a vacation opportunity, and you can vacation not only in Vegas, but you can vacation all over the world and go to different places and have new experiences. And, you know, after a couple of months of paying our monthly payments and trying to get even just to go to Vegas, back to Vegas, they had nothing available except maybe a one-bedroom place that wasn't even the location that we saw. And, you know, that's when we said, okay, we've been had and we're not going to do this anymore. And we had heard about your timeshare exit, the people that you share with people online. And so we contacted them.

And after about a year and a half of going through dealings with the timeshare exit people, we got released. Oh, they got you out? Good. Yes. They got about 20,000 people out, so that's good. Yeah. Yeah, they did get us out.

Way to go. But that costs money, too, of course. They charge you $2,000 or $3,000 for that, right? Oh, it was more than that. Was it? Okay. But you got out of a $27,000 loan, and you had to pay the $8,000 credit card debt, I'm sure. Yes, yes. But we're out, and we will never do that again.

Well, for that matter, you probably won't even go into a Hilton again, like for a hotel stay. Anything that says Hilton on it after you got kicked in the teeth that bad, you're not going to want to do business with. Yeah, exactly. Wow. I'm so sorry. Well, thank you for sharing your story.

So your advice, obviously, is don't go to the presentation do not go don't go don't go for the free vacation don't go to the presentation and whatever they say you can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving yes exactly don't don't even listen yeah debbie thank you for calling and sharing your story jonathan has a story he's in richmond virginia jonathan tell me your timeshare story. Hey, Dave, how are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Fantastic. So this is a story about getting out of the lion cage or the tiger cage with my limbs intact. All right. You made it. This is wild. This almost sounds like a movie, and I swear it's true. So my wife had found something online about if we went to this presentation down in Williamsburg, Virginia,

that we would get free airline tickets and a hotel room to use anytime we wanted. And we're like, okay, that sounds pretty good. So we go down to this thing, and we get put into this room, and I don't know what company it was. It might have been Wingate. I'm not sure. I don't remember. It was about four or five years ago. And we got put into this room, and this guy comes running into the room and he

goes, oh my gosh, guys, I'm so sorry. The normal person who does these presentations isn't here today. So I'm going to do your presentation, but I'm sorry. I'm not used to doing them. So it's going to be kind of, kind of winging it. And we're like, oh, okay. Yeah, whatever. I mean, we're eating our granola bars and drinking our orange juice that they provided. And, you know, we're like, cool, whatever. And so he launches into this thing. And the first thing they show us is a presentation. And the very first five minutes is that first scene and up. Remember where they, you've seen the movie where he meets his wife and they go through their life and she passes away. And it's heartbreaking, right? So their whole push is it's about family and your well-being and enjoying your life.

Which, by the way, showing a video clip like that that's copyrighted would be illegal. Exactly. And that's one thing we kind of, that's a whole other ballgame. But anyway, so he gets off, he stops the video, because his mom calls him. The dude's mom calls him in the middle of his presentation. Oh, wow, this guy's a real schmoozer. Oh, it's amazing. And he answers the phone. And really, he's like,

she answers my mom. And he puts it on speaker, and this woman on the other end, I say woman because we question that later on. My wife and I are like, I don't think so like she talks about her ailments and stuff and anyway we go to this woman um they send us off in these individual um i'll tell you what man i want to hear the rest of this this is fabulous i'm gonna put you on hold

we're gonna talk about it after the break it's a timeshare special hour talking to real people with real experiences. We're talking about the, what has arguably been called the largest legalized fraud in America today, timeshares. And the crazy extremes these people go through to sell them. We're talking with Jonathan in Richmond, Virginia, and he starts telling a story of a guy who busts in to do the sales presentation. Claims he had to show up and do it, but he'd never done it before, so he's not going to be very good at it. Gets his mom on the phone while he's on stage because he's talking about how important it is to your family to have a vacation together. And that's where we left Jonathan off. So that's obviously not his mom on the phone.

Yeah, that's honestly when my wife and I went to leave, we sat in our car and literally laughed at the whole experience. It was like that movie Tin Man. Yeah, Tin Man. Those guys, Richard Dreyfuss, remember that? And they're selling aluminum siding. Uh-huh. It was like a movie. I'm telling you, Dave, it was wild because it gets even better.

So if you're ready, let's finish this puppy up for the rest of our experience. So this guy finishes up, and they then send all the couples, so this is about 25 couples, each with an individual representative to show us the property and how beautiful it was. Let me tell you, Dave, the property was not that beautiful. It was probably about as nice as the old apartment complex my wife and I lived in when we got married. Oh, I had one of those.

Yeah, I did that. Oh, gross. Gross. That's what I'm right home gross gross so anyway so she'd go meet our rep who's this young lady probably about you know late 20s and we go she's like oh it's a big property why don't we go in my van so we go to her van and it has european license plates on it which i'm like okay that's and i recognize that right away having lived in a foreign country for a while i'm like okay that's weird it's recognized that right away, having lived in a foreign country for a while. I'm like, okay, that's weird.

It's hard to bring a car into this country from another country. Okay, whatever. And she's like, yeah, my husband was military and he recently left me and I'm single mom now. And she's like, she has the booster seats and all the toys and the mess in the car. We're like, okay, sure. So we get in and she drives us around, look at this property and we're go blah, blah, blah. We're come back to the finishing room, kind of like they're, they're,

they're, uh, where they gather everyone at individual table. And we sit there with her and she just drills into us the costs and what do we like about this? And we're, we're not, we're stone faced. We're sitting there going, okay, okay cool can we get out of here now and no no no we're telling them now we're this isn't working for us and they could then they bring in the big guns so this guy comes over and says hey what do we need to do for this and what price point can we give you he starts breaking it down by day how much it will cost us by day and we're like, gosh, you guys are kidding me. And this guy has a sob story, too. Like, oh, it's so important to your family.

I had stage three cancer, and I beat it, and I have pictures to prove it of me. And had I not done this, it would have ruined my family. And we're like, oh, my gosh, get us out of here. And so we finally just said, you know what? No, we're done. Give us what we came for. And they finally relented. And the lady who took us around, the sweet young girls like, oh, what does she mean? You don't care about your family? And we're like, yeah, whatever. We actually did get two free airline tickets and a free hotel night. And we used it to go

to New Orleans for free. We actually did get something out of it. And the guy who even gave it to us said, ooh, that's a really good perk. He said, it's a shame you didn't take this. Are you sure? You don't want this great product? And we're like, oh, my goodness, get us out of here. And my wife and I, we got in the car.

We laughed and felt like we needed to take a shower afterwards because we felt that slimy. It was awful. So now the big question is, you got out alive, and you got a great story out of it because it's so ridiculous that it is kind of comedic. But that is their model. I mean, this is who these people are. Now, would you do it again for airline tickets? Absolutely not. No, we have the money. We're going to pay we have the money we're gonna pay cash it wasn't worth it it wasn't worth it so yeah your advice is even though you got out of the tiger cage alive your advice is

don't pet the tiger i love it all right troy is with us troy is columbia south carolina troy tell me your time share story hey Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking the call. Sure. We started back in 2008. My wife was going to the beach and I was to join them later on there in the week. We officially bought the world's most expensive beach portraits. That was the catch to get us in, I guess you would say. You're taking a picture of you on the beach, and this is the prize.

That's it. $24,000 later, the lions and tigers and sharks ripped us apart. Which company was this? This is wonderful Westgate. Westgate. All right. And you were where? Myrtle Beach.

Myrtle Beach. All right. Westgate and Myrtle Beach. So to get a beach portrait, you go pet the tiger. You buy a $24,000 timeshare at Myrtle Beach. Yeah. Yeah. And it's 2008.

So you still got it? We still have it. It's paid for. We want to get out of it. You know, every time we go somewhere, every time we go on vacation, we can't seem to get the week that we want to go. And, you know, it's always booked up. We might have to book two months out from the date that we want.

It's almost as if you would ask for the wrong date, you would get the one you wanted. Yeah, maybe. So how many times have you actually used it? We've used it every year since 2009. Okay, but never on the date that you want to use correct yeah okay yeah we're not gonna get it and i have my wife here with me too her name's tanya so you hear her in the background what'd she say i'm so excited i'm about the worst so has the uh has the property maintenance fees gone up through this time I'm so excited I'm about to burst.

So has the property maintenance fees gone up through this time? Oh, yeah. Every year it goes up. It was, you know, when we first started out, the property maintenance fees weren't so bad. But we were shown the model of what the site was going to look like uh new buildings parking garage swimming pool on top of buildings um they have the model still in the resort and they sell it they still sell it to they're still selling the model and they never built it since 2009. That is correct, sir. And that's what you were promised. That's fraud.

That's that's what I've been saying. Not to mention the fact that they held our kids for six hours, wouldn't bring them back to us until we finally said, fine, just whatever. Here, let me sign the paper and let me get my kids back, please. Well, it was a mess and it still is. Just whatever. Here, let me sign the paper and let me get my kids back, please. You know? It was a mess. And it still is. Every year we get told, we're VIP people. Y'all must be very important.

I told my wife, I said, I think I figured out what VIP stands for. It's very ignorant people. We fell victim to them even though we tried we tried hard not to uh they just they were relentless dave relentless man i appreciate you having a sense of humor and being willing to tell your story because it's hard to tell a story when you mess up i tell my mess up story all the time and i've gotten used to telling it but uh man when you pay stupid tax it hurts it really is twenty four thousand dollars and basically you've gotten a handful of weeks out of it and really you with what you paid in maintenance fees alone you could have rented the hotel for that right absolutely absolutely we kept it a secret for a long time because we were pretty embarrassed that we fell for it oh yeah

the shame we didn't want anybody knowing we're gonna have to build it we're gonna have to have dr john deloney build a uh timeshare buyers support group i'm sorry i said we're gonna have to have dr deloney build a timeshare buyers support group my name is troy and i bought a timeshare that's right right. That's right. Oh, my gosh. But, yeah, we're looking to try to get rid of it. We've been contacted by West Financial Group, which is a lawyer that wants to help. A little bit pricey, and we had J&T Solutions call us.

I don't know enough about these places, but I don't want to get scammed again. Yeah. So, you know, I'm being very cautious. Yeah. I know the Wesley folks. I don't know J&T, and I don't know enough about either one of them to endorse either one of them, but I don't blame you for checking it out. That's for sure.

So, hey, man, thanks for calling in. We appreciate you sharing with us. One of the other interesting phenomenons that has happened with the timeshare people is attorneys are occasionally contacted by timeshare owners. And like that last guy where they've been straight up, you know, we promise you a building in this model and ten years later they've not built the building. So that would be under the heading of fraud, is an actual thing by the way and that your timeshare people don't seem to know that but it's an actual thing fraud is a thing and uh fraud is a reason to get contracts invalidated in court

always if you were defrauded then the contract can be easily set aside in court so attorneys often will take a case like that and contact the timeshare company, and the timeshare company will go, oh, okay, and they just let them out. But they wouldn't let the people out before. But you get an attorney involved. Well, if an attorney does that too many times, the timeshare people get pissed off. And what's happened is they've put this concert person attorney office can get run out of business by them being sued, even though they didn't do anything wrong. But they just bury you in legal costs because the timeshare business, they make billions of dollars, billions with a B.

And so to chase down some attorney. One of the attorneys, several of the attorneys that have been sued, got together and hired an attorney. So as a group, now they are countersuing again and trying to stop the timeshare business from doing this to them because several of them have been run out of the business one of the guys that got sued regularly by them is a guy named scott montgomery he's an attorney in missouri and uh that's a true story about what happened to you wasn't it scott didn't run you out of business

but they tried they sure did dave they're they're trying the trying their best, but we're hanging in there. We had a hearing yesterday down in the federal court in Florida on our motion for an injunction to try and stop this sham litigation against attorneys who represent timeshare owners. Did it go well? I think it did, Dave. You know, the judge is a scholar of the law, and if we don't win on this motion, I know that we will ultimately prevail on the merits. But, you know, these timeshare pushers, they're like drug dealers. We hear from our many clients that they have even divorced. They've separated from their spouse because of the financial ruin caused by these timeshare pushers. I know of one man who lived by your advice, Dave. He never had a debt that he didn't pay. He was a hardworking man, and he paid his debts until he went into the tiger cage. And when he came out of the tiger cage,

he had more debt than he could handle. And you know what happened to him? The timeshare pusher, they published a notice for all of the world to see that they were foreclosing upon him. And they said this man could not pay his debt. And he was so embarrassed. He was so ashamed that he took his own life. Oh, my gosh. He committed suicide after he went into the tiger cage so if you think that you can go into the tiger cage because you want two free nights or the body snatchers got to you and you're going to come

out on the other end okay well you're wrong yeah you're wrong so you've been pretty regularly uh suing the timeshare business and getting people out that's why they're pissed at you and suing you, trying to count, trying to bury you. How many people have you gotten out? Can you say? Is that something you can talk about? Sure, sure. We've been doing this for several years. We've gotten out about 1,500 people.

We represent about 17,000 people in a class action against Blue Green, and we are working for many other defrauded, mostly elderly people to try and get them out as we speak. So out of the one-offs, not the class action, but the one-offs, what is the typical reason from a legal perspective that they would, you know, that basically you're saying you did this, you're accusing them of wrongdoing of some kind. What is the typical wrongdoing that causes them to bow and release the consumer? Well, Dave, there are dozens of different timeshare pushers in this country. Some are more reasonable than others, and some will negotiate a settlement with you when you

point out that, look, your timeshare salesperson, that felon that you employed to sit across the table from a buyer, they committed fraud, they committed negligent misrepresentation, they violated a state unlawful merchandising practices act, or you charged them illegal document preparation fees. When we point out how they have violated the law, a reasonable timeshare company will often negotiate a settlement. Others will not negotiate a settlement, and you have to go to litigation, you have to go to arbitration, you have to file a class action, and it's extremely difficult. You know, these timeshare pushers, they like to sell their financed-backed securities every year to Wall Street banker types. You know, Wyndham sells hundreds of millions of dollars of timeshare mortgages to Wall Street bankers.

So if you're one of those people who agreed to sign a timeshare mortgage to finance the purchase of your timeshare, it's a whole lot harder for me to get you out of your timeshare obligation than if you're a person who just financed it, who just paid out of pocket and who's paid in full, who's current on their maintenance fees. It's much easier for a lawyer to negotiate a settlement for that person who is known in the industry as paid in full. Yeah. Well, because they no longer, like that example with Wyndham, you said they are Westgate.

Who was it they sold? Anyway, they're packaging them together. They're selling them on hedge funds, much like a mortgage-backed security, except there's no mortgage because there's no actual real estate. They're selling air. But these are basically unsecured loans. But they don't own the loan anymore. And you go to them and say, you committed fraud.

And they go, yeah, I know, but we've sold the loan. So you've got to deal with hedge fund company over here that now owns the loan, and you can't get that forgiven because that company hadn't done anything wrong. They just bought bad papers. The only thing they did wrong. You're exactly right, Dave. And the insidious thing that is going on here, I'm sure you know more about Dodd-Frank than I do, but that was the law that was passed by our United States Congress to try and deal with the subprime home lending crisis back in 2008. Well, the timeshare pushers got together and they lobbied Congress and they got an exclusion for themselves where Dodd-Frank does not apply to timeshare mortgages. So they're doing the same thing. They're engaging in the same tactics with the same big banks that occurred back in 2008 and caused the home lending crisis. That's going on now in the timeshare space because they had

one captive congressman from down in Florida, and he snuck the word timeshare mortgage into an exclusion from Dodd-Frank. So they can prey on unsuspecting consumers who have zero ability to repay and sell them timeshares and sell them a mortgage, and Dodd-Frank doesn't apply to them. Now, they can knowingly make a bad loan and then sell that loan in bulk, those bad loans in bulk to hedge funds, and they put them on the books looking for a great rate of return.

And, of course, if the consumer doesn't pay, it's not Wyndham or Westgate or Diamond, then, that's calling them. It's the hedge fund that bought the loan. That's who they now owe the money to, and that's who's going to sue them if they don't pay on their timeshare, right? That's exactly right, Dave. That's what's going on, and our government needs to fix it. And God bless you, Dave, for being a champion for all of these people

who have been defrauded by these timeshare pushers. Thank you, Scott. Scott Montgomery from Missouri. He's an attorney there that has successfully removed 1,500 people and has 17,000 in a class action suit on Blue Green right now. Wow. This is a nasty, nasty space. When you get in a room with those people, you really do feel like you need to take a shower when you're done.

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