The Ramsey Show - App - Freedom or Debt? You Get To Choose (Hour 1)

Episode Date: May 7, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Camel, joined by not one, but two compadres today, Dr. John Deloney and my good friend, Ken Coleman. And there's a reason we went full SportsCenter today with this setup, because we are celebrating the launch of my friend Ken Coleman's brand new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, which comes with access to his amazing Get Clear Career Assessment. And I'm telling y'all, if you are trying to win with money, you've got to be winning at work. And that is something that my friend Ken harps on. Ken, I have my results and we'll get into that, but I want to talk about why the relationship between work and money. Yeah. Well, let's first look at what David said for decades,

which is that your income, presumably from your full-time job, but I guess, you know, we did three part-time jobs, whatever it is, but your income is your greatest wealth building tool. That's where you take that money. If you use the baby steps as we've taught, and you're smart with your money, you live on less than you make, you live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else. And so it's making the most of our income. Strikingly, it's not just something Dave has said as though it's some truth he's pulled out of the air. We did the largest study ever of net worth millionaires, over 10,000. Both of you guys know this. And the third largest group of net worth millionaires in the United States were school teachers. And I think to a person in this country, no matter what side of the aisle you're on,

I think we could all unite around teachers should probably make a little bit more money. And so teachers aren't not wealthy, but what teachers are, are people that are on purpose. They've got a mission in life. They're serving. They're really investing. If you think about it, in the next generation, our greatest resource, our children. And so because of that high sense of mission and purpose, they live on less than they make and they invest it like you and Dave teach. And so that really crystallizes this idea of how important the income is, but don't miss the whole teacher part of that story. And John, you get this,

you know, you're talking with people all the time. Mental health is at an all-time low and it's coming from a lot of directions, but the workplace is one of the big drivers. One of the huge drivers. And so how is it that you can, how can teachers or anybody become net worth millionaires doing something they're miserable at doing? And we see a lot of teachers leaving, but a lot still have a high calling in it. So the idea around meaning and purpose in the work is a huge driver to you being able to be disciplined, to be healthy enough, to actually live on less than you make and ultimately

yield the results of investing over time. So that's how work and money are inextricably tied together. And we found that as people build wealth, they love what they do. We didn't find many wealthy people who were like, I hated what I did, but I did it for 30 years and I became a multimillionaire. 96% of net worth millionaires said they enjoyed, loved their work. And there's something to that. In fact, I'll throw it to John. What's the psychology behind that?

I was about to say, I'm glad you called out something like teaching. We often think that the work we're, quote unquote, we're called to do means it's pain-free. We like it every single day of our life. It's never dramatic. We're never worried about losing our job or our customers going away to another business. That's not it at all. It's when you find the work that you were put on this planet to do, and you go all in to learn how to do it and be the best in your craft, you'll overcome any obstacle to see it through, right?

It's true. And so I think you just won't keep sticking around if you keep there's there's those that famous psychology experiment they could never do in the modern era where they're electrocuting dogs they like they just after you get electrocuted enough you just don't move you just take whatever life gives you and you just live that quiet life of desperation and it's those that can figure out no no i i i know i have a purpose i've got a way a path forward i'm gonna go i'm gonna go make it happen yeah that's it right there and so there really is those that can figure out, no, no, no, I know I have a purpose. I've got to weigh a path forward. I'm going to go make it happen. Yeah, that's it right there. And so there really is something to having some enjoyment in it. We all understand we got to be adults and go work and take care

of our family. But at the same time, this notion that I can't do something that I really enjoy. And of course, as you know, what we teach in this book and in all the methodology that we've developed here at Ramsey around work is that there's actual design involved. And then things that I suck at, somebody else is great at. Thanks for pointing at me. Well, you're great at things that I'm awful at. And here's the thing, the things that you enjoy drain me, right? And so this idea that we all have a place where we can kind of fill a role. And again, John, back to the psychology of this

and what we really are trying to explain is it's not just a money play. The money is the immediate play and you can really win with money if you're winning at work. But there's this idea that everybody wants to make a difference. You just kind of long to, did I make a mark while I was here on this planet? Relational first, but certainly occupational. And so we want people to understand that. But the biggest picture is, is if I'm doing work I'm good at, work I enjoy, work that creates a result that I care about, guess what? I show up motivated. I'm willing to hustle. To John's point, I'm willing to deal with some suffering, whatever that looks like, because there's a bigger thing at play here. And that's

where we win with money. And the byproduct is career success and professional growth and a bigger income. And what does that come to? That comes to freedom. Everybody wants to be free to live the life they want to live. And the more money we have with responsibility and values, we have options. Yeah. When you spend a third of your life at work and you spend 4,000 hours going through high school, and it all leads to this path where we go, I think this is what I want to do, but no one's really taken some deep thought as to what it is they're wanting to do. Well, we're not teaching anybody how to figure it out. And that's what we've done with the Get Clear stuff. This is simple methodology. And when you can use what you do best to do what you love

to produce results that matter, boy, that's a really good feeling, even on the worst days. Because you can have a really crappy day, but also go, I'm still making a difference. And that's key. And so it's self-awareness. That's what this book, The Self-Awareness Tool for Professional Growth. It's a superpower. John can tell you this from his field. The key to getting healthy is an awareness of what's really at the source of the problem.

Right. And I also think, and Ken and I, you and I haven't talked about this, but I think this is also good for supervisors because people are leaving businesses in droves because their leaders are terrible. Like we have a leadership crisis. And we have choppy waters ahead. And if you have a good boat driver, you can get through choppy waters. If you don't, then it's going to be a mess. And so I think it's important also for leaders to know what are the people that work for me good at? What do they love doing? And how can I move some of these tasks so that this person lights up every day and this person lights up every day? And I'm not drowning everybody with my top down processes. That's a great point. It's a cheat code. It's a cheat code. Ken and I, we had a decade of struggle trying to figure this thing out and get to this point and you've cracked this code to help people. I wish I had this 10 years ago. So I have my Get Clear

Assessment results here. I want you to read it out loud. So real quick for time, his top three talents. George, we're talking about. Imagination. Vaping with a cherry flavor vape. I knew he couldn't resist. Communication and discernment. And perfect hair.

Perfect, perfect hair. Now, the things you love doing most are promoting, leading, and creating. And ultimately, what you're driven by is creation. You nailed it. You read my mail. How does that come out? Give us a 30 second of how that purpose statement shows up every day at work for you. I'm communicating.

I'm here promoting things that I'm passionate about, messages I'm passionate about, and creating is what fuels me. When I leave work knowing I created something, a piece of content, a video, that's what fuels me. So go check this out, guys. He has cracked the code. Who you are, why you're wired that way, what you want to do professionally, how to get there, the Get Clear Career Assessment, along with find the work you're wired to do. It's a combo. You need it. Give it to someone you care about in your life, a spouse, a child, a parent, and they'll figure it out.

RamseySolutions.com slash store. Big congrats, Ken. Thanks, guys. Hope it helps a lot of people. Appreciate you having me on. Have fun today. We will. Thanks for visiting us.

More of The Ramsey Show coming up. 888-825-5225. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tammy's on the line from Tampa, Florida. Tammy, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Sure. How can john and i help well i i'm just i'm needing some assistance with uh stopping giving my ex-daughter-in-law money okay i have an awesome tip for this before you even ask your question yeah okay you ready yep go ahead all right Do you have a pen and paper you can write this down? Sure. You'll remember it. Okay. All right. Stop giving your ex-daughter-in-law money.

That was incredible, huh, wasn't it? That was genius. That was incredible. I went to a lot of grad school for that one. That's called trolling, Tammy. Don't fall for it. So why can't you stop giving her money? Well, I did. I've been giving her money for a long time trying to help her because she's a single mom. What's a long time and how much?

Since my husband died in September and probably about $4,000. Total, four grand since September. Yeah, I've paid her rent since January. It's $800 a month. Where's your son in this? He is not in the picture at all. So he is paying support. In your life or hers? He's paying her child support $25 a week. Okay. A week. Where is he?

He's in North Carolina and he's dropped out of her life or everyone's life. Is he legally supposed to be paying more than $25 a week? No, that's what the courts awarded him. So he's indigent. He's not working. Is he struggling with addiction pretty bad? Not addiction. He's a transgender. Okay. So he's just not in the picture at all.

Okay, he just dropped out of his life. So are you, are you giving money? Cause you feel guilty? A lot of it is. Yeah. I will, because she's a single mom. I don't want, I don't want her to go under. And this is your grandchild still. It's not an ex grandchild. It's still your grandchild. Yeah. She's raising my grandchild. I gave her a car. I gave her my car, and then I bought a car so that she would have a reliable vehicle because she was going under with the used car dealership. Sure. Well, if you want to keep giving her money, then why do you want to stop giving her money? I don't have it anymore. There you go. more. I'm 59. I want to retire someday and I can't just keep giving her money. But the latest

was Sunday night when she messaged me that she's going to be evicted if I don't help her pay her rent. Is she working full time? She's worked two jobs. She gets food stamps, child support. She no longer has a car payment. I mean, I don't know where her money's going. Here's the deal, though. Unless you want to file with the Child Protective Services in that local area and take custody of this kid because the kid's not safe, where her money goes isn't any of your business. And I know that's hard to hear, but it's not. Yeah, I know.

And you've been giving her money, thousands and thousands of dollars, and you've probably had a ton of conversations about your son who's transitioned. Like you've had tons of conversations with her. Y'all are close and she's going to keep calling you in the middle of the night because she knows you'll bail her out of whatever situation she finds herself in. And so until you say upfront, hey, I don't have enough money for me. And so from this point forward, here's the last $500 I got, and this is it, and she's going to call you again because she doesn't believe you,

and you're going to have to hold firm to that boundary. You're going to have to be sad. You're going to have to be upset. You're going to have to be angry at your child. You have to be frustrated, all of it, but you don't have any money to give. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah. And it seems like there's a lack of trust on your part because you don't know what she's doing with this money, and you don't think it's going to the things you want it to go to. That's sort of correct. I don't understand. She works like two towns over. It's an hour away. Why not get a job closer to home? Why not? I just don't know where her money's going, and it always an excuse and I'm just tired of the excuses I just don't want my granddaughter out on the streets and now she's going to be evicted in three days are you in a position to

take temporary custody of your granddaughter for a while I've told her yes she can come stay with me I mean I haven't done anything legally I'm not sure what I need to do legally, but I've told her I can put up my granddaughter. I just can't have her in my house. Sure, of course. What does she say to that? I'm waiting for a response. I just sent her a long message today saying no more financial help. So let's stop communicating in messages because that's how my teenage son communicates with hisates with his friends and we're adults and this is too big of a deal let's

make phone calls okay okay let's pick up the phone and call and say i'm gonna come pick up my granddaughter and she can stay here until you get on your feet again if that's what you feel like you need to do okay i like that i think i agree with that and she may say i hate you and i can't believe this or you may bail her out for three weeks and then she'll come over to the house and say, oh, my gosh, you took my kid. Who knows what's going to happen in the back end of this deal? But at least for three weeks, that little girl's got a safe place to put her head. That's what I want. I just want her to be safe. Yeah.

And I'm not trying to take her child away. I just want her to get on her feet and stop wasting money. Of course. But listen, you don't get any say into her budget. You don't get any say into where she lives and where she works. That stinks, but you just don't, right? Yeah, I know. And we want the, man, I can't even imagine being in the situation you're in. But just because it hurts doesn't mean it's wrong. You don't have a pain-free path forward here.

You have to choose the one that's going to hurt and also lead you to where you want to be, which is right now a safe place for your daughter and your bleeding cash that you don't have. And have you grieved your husband's loss? Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, I think that maybe it's just being taken advantage of since my husband's passed.

Okay. It's, um, it's tough. Yeah. You know, and he would, he would probably, he's rolling over in his grave seeing me give our money. It's okay. Hey, you went through a period of having to survive and you're still breathing and you're good and now we're going to start making some some harder and firmer and more um safe and rational choices right yeah yeah forgive yourself man i i can't my life would end if my wife passed away it would stop and i would hope to give myself

some grace on what i did the next few months it would just be i just can't even wrap my head around that so i'm gonna give you some give yourself some grace on what I did the next few months. It would just be, I can't even wrap my head around that. So I'm going to give you some, give yourself some grace. You've been trying to keep your family afloat as it's kind of drifting apart from you. Thank you. I'm proud of you, okay? Thank you. And now you got to put your oxygen mask on

and make sure you're in a stable enough place so that if you do end up having to take custody over this little granddaughter or whatever you choose to do, or your child comes home, what have you got to do? Um, you're going to be at a more stable place to do that. I agree.

Okay. I'm proud of you. And, uh, George is the one thing I'll always tell parents in this situation is don't, um, don't pull a gotcha. Meaning if you've been giving money for month after month after month after

month and it's up to thousands of dollars in my opinion that warrants a conversation not just an overnight cutoff right because somebody has begun to lean on that money and you have shown up time and time and time again it's worth a conversation and that can be an uncomfortable one um because she's gonna say, this is it. I don't have any more money. Oh, she's going to let us. It's all her fault. I can't control how you budget, how you spend, any of that stuff.

I'm just telling you I don't have any more money. It's worth that conversation, and then you've got to hold those boundaries firm because those waters are coming. We're going to see if they're going to hold. It's so hard. And I know a lot of people, not this particular situation, but a lot of people are going through some version of this where they're trying to be a good nice person it's turned into this enabling they have to have the hard boundary conversation and it's a close person in their life how do you even begin that well i'll take it one step further it's not only like we talk on the show we often oversimplify it right like you just cut that person off what if I cut that person off and they have my granddaughter who's four, right? Like it complicates things. And so like we talked about in that call,

what's the end goal? The end goal here is I can't give you any more money. And the end goal is I need my granddaughter safe. Okay. Well then maybe she's gonna have to come live with you for a couple of weeks. Cause that's the only option, right? Does anybody want that? No, but that's, that's the next right thing. So I think sometimes it's as simple as telling your 25-year-old kid, you got to move out of the basement. Often it's sitting down and saying, okay, what's the best thing for the children involved in this deal? And what's the reality? My financial reality, I don't have more money. I can't give you anything else. I'm going to have to be calling you for money. And you got to make those hard decisions and

think through all the ramifications of that. But none of it is easy. And I think we all want an easy path. None of it's easy. It's all hard. And you got to go do it anyway. So good. Well, Tammy, thanks for the call. We're wishing the best for you. Hope this ends up with a good situation for you and your granddaughter.

This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Listen, it's May, it's graduation season, and a grad in your life just spent more than 4,300 hours in class, and we're guessing that nobody figured, you know what, we should teach them how to handle money. How about that? So before you stick a crisp $100 bill inside that graduation card, why not give them a tool that you wish someone had given you?

And we've got tons of great gifts for grads in the Ramsey store. Gifts for teaching your grad about money. How about this? The Total Money Makeover. Dave's all-time best-selling book. It's helped more than 10 million people get out of debt and build wealth. And my number one bestseller, Breaking Free from Broke, exposing the money myths and traps out there.

It's sort of like financial peace for the next generation. It's riddled with jokes and humor. I put the cookies on the bottom shelf. That's like saying like, I just came out with a new record. It's kind of like Sergeant Peppers for the next generation. Pretty much. Good job, George. Good job. That's what Harry Styles is to me. Good job. So lots of gifts over there. If you're looking at grads trying to work on their job search, check out Ken Coleman's brand new book. We talked about it earlier, launched today. Find the work you're wired to do. It includes the Get Clear Career Assessment.

So this is very actionable for that grad in your life. It will show them the work that they would enjoy doing, helps them narrow down the search. So check out all of those. Questions for Humans are all up. That's a good one, too. Building on Anxious Life. They finally put it on sale.

They've never put it on sale. About time. I know. I'm not paying retail. Never. Go to the one, too. Those are all up. Building it on Anxious Life. They finally put it on sale. They've never put it on sale. About time. I know. I'm not paying retail. Never. So, hey. Go to the store, man. Pick up some good stuff.

Our loss is your gain. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash store. Shop till you drop. The grads will thank you. And put a $20 bill in there along with the gift. I think that's always a kind thing to do. They like cash, too. Yeah.

Put some coal in there. There we go. John's real angry today. I'm 100 years old i guess i don't even know i wouldn't even want to find coal does home depot sell coal the little bridge has some a little uh kings been kingsford briquettes does that count yeah it's charcoal okay man that's that was the most outdoorsy manly thing i've heard you say let's go to in briquette form let's go to the lines because I prefer talking to strangers

than John. Cindy is joining us in Richmond, Virginia. How are you doing, Cindy? I'm fine. Thank you for taking my call. I have kind of a complicated question. We have a complicated answer, most likely. Great. Hey, wait a minute. You're in Richmond,

Virginia. You know where there's coal, right? No, I a minute. You're in Richmond, Virginia. You know where there's coal, right? No, I don't. She was so excited. George thinks it's at Home Depot. All right, go ahead. Go ahead. Okay, so six years ago, my mother moved in with my husband and myself.

She sold her home. She built onto our home. Uh, she put a hundred thousand dollars, um, in our home for an apartment for her. I'm her, um, full-time caregiver. And, uh, now my husband and I are moving and we want to take her with us, and the house that we have bought does not have accommodations for her. So my question is, is who should fit the bill to make our house accommodating for her? Does she have the money? She has the money. She, um, she lives off social security for, she gets about 1700 a month,

but she has 300,000 in invest in investment. Um, do you have siblings? I have a sister. She is hands off. Okay. But is she going to be entitled to this money and be really upset that you spent it? Because I'm feeling like your mom put her $100,000 in, and so whatever y'all got out in equity of that home, you just absorbed that and made that your money.

And that would be money I think sounds right to go to. Y'all chose a house that's not accessible and so that that sounds like that's where that money would go so okay because you've absorbed that equity right we did yes we did i'm sure didn't increase the value by a hundred thousand dollars it wasn't dollar for dollar but i am assuming it increased the value somewhat to add on an apartment, right? Yes, it has. It has. We've made a lot of, you know, upgrades to this house,

and I know that that has put built-in, you know, financial equity in the home. Sure. I just, you know, it's a hard question because I am her 24-7 caregiver. And you do it for free? Yes. Okay. Except, I'm sorry, she does give us a check for $350 a month, and that's for gas because she has a lot of appointments. She's a heart patient.

That's for her insurance. That's for her phone and utilities and food. Okay, Cindy, can I... I do... Yeah, go ahead. I'm sorry. We only have a... We don't have a ton of time. I would be much gentler in this approach, okay?

But so it's going to sound like I'm coming at you pretty hard, but I just have to ask this question. It sounds like you are getting frustrated in your role, and you're looking almost for back pay. Like you deserve this, and she deserves to pay for it. You know, that could very well be. I don't think that's right. I think y'all came to an agreement.

And y'all chose another house. Yeah. I mean, you chose another house. You get to do whatever you want to do. But the house that you chose and the choice you made to be your mom's 24-7 caregiver, those right now are incompatible. But those are both choices you made after your mom put $100,000 into your old house. Yeah. I know that's, I know. Tell me if I'm wrong. Tell me if I'm being unfair.

You know, I don't know what's fair, but I want to be fair because I'm a Christian and that's how I live my life. And I just, I don't know. Are you exhausted? I'm completely exhausted let's say that that stinks man what you're doing is really hard my oldest best friend on planet earth is a paraplegic and his brother takes care of him and his mom takes care of him full time that's exhausting thankless

nobody's there to work yes right it's exhausting No thankless, nobody's there to work. Yes. Right? Yes. It's exhausting. And when you get exhausted and you don't have people that you spend your life with, it's real easy to start saying, like, well, I deserve and I should have.

And those things make your heart hard. And then you start thinking, well, I'm going to bill mom for, see what I'm saying? It's just one step and one step and one step. Right. And I don't want to do something that is wrong by my mother. She has been a good mother. She is a good mother. And for the circumstance that we're in, she has made it as easy as she can. Sure. You know. Have you already bought this house and you've already moved and all that stuff's running and gunning? We're in the process of moving. So you're already sold or have you not closed yet?

We have bought a home and we are almost ready to put our house on the market that we're living in. So whatever happens with the proceeds, I'm guessing you're going to have a... What number do you think you'll have at the closing? From the sale of the house? I think we're going to... I'm hoping that we're going to close around $700. Okay. Do you have a mortgage?

This house is paid off. Okay. So outside of fees, you will take every penny and put it in the bank and you're going to roll most of that over to the next house what's the next house cost uh $589 okay so you'll be able to pay cash and afford a hundred thousand dollar addition yes or remodel i like this plan i like it doesn't send you guys back, you're not going into debt for this. You have the money. I would leave her investments alone because chances are one day you're going to inherit whatever she has left.

Or worst case scenario, you're going to get sued for the money that your sister thinks you spent. Well, I hadn't thought about that if you use a portion of mom's investments now she passes sister goes whoa they they took they already took a hundred thousand out of their inheritance so i deserve that back then they charged they charged mom another 75 000 to make the new house ada accessible and you can't now it's 150 right see how it just gets messier and messier and messier um yeah I I would find somebody to go sit with whether it's a couple of friends whether it's a counselor whether it's somebody that you can just exhale and say I didn't see this is how my life was going to be right now and I'm tired and I don't like it and it's right and I know what I'm doing is holy and good and all that but I'm also allowed to say I don't like it and it's right and I know what I'm doing is holy and good and all that but I'm also allowed to say I don't like it and find some people you can say that to and get it

work through that stuff man because this is hard what you're doing you're a good good daughter but when you get into the shoulds and I'm owed man you can make some gnarly decisions that you can't take back this is the Ramsey show'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. If you're listening to the show, do us a quick favor, wherever you're listening or watching, hit the share button and share this with someone in your life who might enjoy it. Leave us a kind review, hit the subscribe or follow button. All of that helps us reach more people. It helps the algorithms love us and you are the best marketing we have. So I appreciate all of you who have done that. It is working. We are seeing the numbers grow and it means the world. Tyler's up next in Charlotte,

North Carolina. Tyler, welcome to the show. Thank you guys. What's going on? Honestly, I have a, I would say a base platform that I'm trying to build from. I just recently had a two-year-old son, so that's kind of motivation in a lot of different manners. I'm trying to build credit, looking at buying a house, things of that nature, but I'm basically starting at the complete bottom. What does that mean? I have to read Dave Renz. Like you have have no financial literacy or are you broke or both? Financial literacy.

I'm not sure exactly what I'm doing. I work for the post office, so income is decent. Are you married? No, I have. No, sir. Okay. Are you a single dad? Yes, sir. Okay. Are you a single dad? Yes, sir.

Okay. How old are you? 32. Hey, welcome to the gang, man. What's up, guys? Hey, look, man, if you knew how many questions I asked Dave off air, because I don't know either, man, you are right where you need to be, and I'm glad you found us.

And someone who's 52 is going, oh, I wish I was Tyler learning this stuff at 32. That's awesome, man. So put down the shame and baggage you probably feel that you should have been doing better things sooner. It's okay. All right. So let me free you. So let's talk about your financial picture and what your goals are. That helps us kind of assess where you're at in the journey.

And then, of course, I'll give you some tools that will kind of lay out the Ramsey plan and foundation. So how much are you making at the post office? Roughly $3,200 a month. Okay. And what does child care look like for the two-year-old? I'm paying about $750 in child support a month. Okay. Now, what debt do you have? None, besides maybe a few medical from years ago. Okay. And how much money do you have in the bank? About $2,300. Okay. This is a good start. That I can just set to the side, yes. So you're better off than most people in America.

I know that sounds crazy. That's how bad things are. But you're ahead of most people, okay? What's your rent every month? I actually don't have it. I did a while back, but then I moved out. It was time for me to step out on my own. My family was like, all right, let's go.

So they kind of pushed me out and I'm starting fresh. So do you have rent or a mortgage right now? Not in a bad way. Do I have rent for a mortgage? Do you have rent or a mortgage? The ability? Oh, negative. No, sir. So what's your living situation? I actually live with a friend. They've been gracious enough to open their door and give me an opportunity to build.

What do you mean to build? Like to build your financial life? Yes. Okay. So are you paying them any rent, or is this just free, just being a bud? Yes. Now, I will help out between $200, $300 a month, and we're fixing things around the house or just random things. But it's not a, hey, I need this amount.

They're secure in themselves. Okay. Well, I think long-term, I want you to have a place for yourself, even if that's just renting for a few years as you start to save up a down payment to become a homeowner. The problem I'm running into, because I did look into apartments recently, is it falls back to credit score. And I have never established credit, so I have no credit score.

I don't have bad credit. It's just no score. When you say running into a problem, here's the truth. I've rented many apartments. I've called different apartments across the country. I did this on my YouTube channel. I did this in the book and my fine print podcast. And it turns out almost every single person was like,

yeah, do you have a stable job? Yeah. Do you have a criminal background? No. Okay, well, you might need to pay an extra 500 bucks deposit. And I go, oh, okay, that's it. So that's the truth. A lot of it is fictionalized in our head

or they go, hey, we're going to run a credit check and you go, oh gosh, and you get scared off. They're looking for delinquent bad credit. They're not going to be concerned if you just have no credit history because you don't have debt. And by the way, Tyler, both George and I have bought a house with a manual underwriting with a credit score of zero.

You can do that too. And our partners at Churchill Mortgage, they've been doing this for decades. They are the number one experts in manual underwriting with a no score loan. So I don't want that to scare you into doing what most Americans do, which is go, I got to build my credit. Let me get a credit card or seven. Let me go is go, I got to build my credit. Let me get a credit card or seven. Let me go get a car payment because that helps my credit score. And then you wake up going, I'm in no financial, I'm not in a better financial place than I was. And I have a

750 or 800 credit score, big whoop. And so I think you're actually doing better than most if you don't have a credit score right now. Here's something I learned about the credit score, Tyler. And since you don't have a lot of financial literacy, this blew my mind. And I'm going to tell it to you early. If I gave you $5 million in cash right now, it would not change your credit score one bit. If you went and opened up a credit card and ran up $5,000 and made your monthly payment three months in a row, you'd have a great credit score. Who would you rather be?

A guy holding $5 million in cash or that other dude? Cash. Exactly. The credit score is just as simply as a marker for how good you can dance with debt. And if you just decide, I'm going to dance with freedom instead, the score is kind of irrelevant. Okay. Okay.

So that solves it. Now you go, well, what should I be doing? Well, the Ramsey Baby Steps give you a great filter. And right now, outside of clearing up that medical debt, I would just go ahead and call them and say, hey, what do I owe? See if you can settle. How much is this?

Do you know? Have any idea? Maybe $1,500, $2,000 minimum to maybe $4,000. Okay. Well, you've got, let's say you have a $1,000 starter emergency fund. That gives you $1,300 to play with. What if you said, hey, can I settle this debt? I've got $1,300.

I need it paid in full and I need it in writing. I bet they'd go, yeah, that's fine. Let's clear that out of your life. You don't need that. Don't give them your checking account either. So they can tell you. That is part of the plan. I just, I didn't know which step that would be. I'm halfway through Dave Ramsey's Navy Steps book. Right now. Great. Okay. So that's your step one is to clear up that old collection debt. You have $1,000 in the bank. Now we move on to step two, paying off all debt.

You don't have that. Let's move on to step three, three to six months of expenses, fully funded emergency fund. And for you, that might be 10 grand. Okay. And so your next step would be how much of my income can I push towards savings and not spend it? And that probably for you with your expenses right now will happen pretty fast. Yes. And so the next step after that is let's begin investing. Baby step four, invest 15% of our income. I'm guessing you have an employer retirement plan through the postal

service? Yes. And you're not currently investing? Not yet. A lot of that was within your first 60 day window and I was so busy with the job, I didn't actually get into it yet. That's totally fine. I can start at any time. Well, start it once you have a fully funded emergency fund. That's when you can turn on that dial for 15% in that retirement plan. Okay. Then beyond that, it's saving for the kids' college, and obviously in all of that, we've got to be saving for a house.

That would be Baby Step 3B, and we'll give you some more resources on that to help you take that next step. But it's very clear. It's one thing, focus, intensity, and you're going to do one thing at a time. But I want to encourage you that you're in a better spot than you think you are, and credit is not the answer to any of your problems. Awesome. You're the solution, man. So hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. I spent a lot of time pouring through the research and the data and the objections, talking about credit scores. There's a whole chapter on that, talking about credit cards to kind of unlock what John's talking about, about solving for freedom instead of playing kissy face with banks and lenders your whole life and then wondering why it doesn't feel like the American dream. And I think you're going to be able to rise above that with these tools. So hang on the line and Austin and Kelly are going to pick up.

We're going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. You've already got the Baby Steps book, probably Total Money Makeover, if I had to guess. A great book to get you fired up. And you'll get there, man. That's exciting. It's kind of nice, John, when we talk to someone who's sort of fresh. They think that everything's coming down and they realize, no, you're pretty good, actually. Most people call it they're underwater.

You're on dry land. You're not in the mountains, but you're on dry land, dude. And there's no unplugging from the matrix. You don't have to deprogram all the crap and beliefs and myths. You just go, I don't know what to do. Tell me. They're going to be way better off than the people who are stuck in their own limited beliefs, believing the debt system is the path. It's simply not.

And listen to the show for 20 minutes and you'll see how that's true. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to my co-host, Dr. John Deloney, all the guys and gals in the booth keeping the show afloat, and you, America, will be back before you know it. Take care.