The Ramsey Show - App - Freeing Up Your Income From Debt Will Build You Wealth (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 8, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Maya is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Maya. How are you?

Doing great. Thank you for all the work that you all do. Thank you. How can we help? I am calling because we have two debts left. We have our primary mortgage and we have the mortgage on a rental property. And we're wondering which one we should pay off first. Cool.

How much are they? The rental property has 130K balance, 3.785% interest. Our mortgage is 457, 2.75% interest. Household income is what? 530. Whoa. Come on now. Rocking it, girl. Good for you.

It has gone up a lot in the last two, three years. I'm happy for you. Way to go, successful people in Salt Lake. What do you do? We're very grateful, very blessed. My husband works for Delta, and in the last year and a half, he switched over to the captain's seat, so we're very happy. Yeah, yeah.

That's awesome. And he's gone a lot, too. Oh, okay. Wow. Wow. Well, good. Wow. Wow. Well, good for you guys. I'm so proud for you. Okay, so the only tradeoff in my mind is this, is I always do a risk analysis first. And the way I look at that is if everything went sideways, which you're a long way from everything going sideways, you're square in the middle of prosperity, right?

But if everything went sideways and I was going to lose one of these, which one would I want to lose? Well, I'd want to lose the rental. So it's always the second to pay off, unless it has a super small mortgage, and I could just knock it out real fast. Now, relative to your income, what would be your plan to have both of these paid off?

How long will it take you? Making $500, you need $550, right? Right. Right. So we were figuring three years. Okay. So really, it doesn't matter, because in three years, both of them are gone. Yes, sir.

Yeah. And so if we said that, then really we're talking about of the three years, two years is your house, one year is the other, give or take. Not quite. Yes, sir. But more of it's the house. So, hmm. Well, see, the speed at which you're doing it kind of makes me on the bubble.

I don't really care. So what would I do if I woke? I'll tell you how I'm thinking about it. All right, tell me. With your first risk assessment, the one that you'd want to lose, I'd want to know what the rental property is worth. What is it worth? It's worth about $300. $300, okay.

And your home is worth what? 790 oh interesting i'm paying off my house i'm paying off the house too because if you had told me that the rental was worth plenty of what it would take to pay off the primary i might say oh go ahead and pay it off if you came like you said if you had a risk scenario and you came on hard times you could always sell it and pay off the primary but it wouldn't bring enough to do that. Right. So that's why I would go with Dave. Yeah, and you're going to pay it off.

And I'm thinking of the non-math benefits that end up being math benefits, like peace. Like when you pay off your home, you feel different than when you pay off your rental agreed agreed yeah and so we paid off our cars and you know that you can get to and from work and not have to yeah i'm dropping the kids off at school it felt so good yeah like every stupid thing doesn't start at least it's mine you know that kind of stuff yeah i also think there's something of it i'm like if anybody's living in the paid for house it's me not the renters yeah i like that there's that thing yeah i mean if you owed like 45 or 50 i just knocked the rental out like it was a credit card debt or something and just knock it out quick

but it's kind of on the bubble because the way the math works in your scenario so um you know i'm i for the peace and the um non-math benefits of being debt-free on your personal residence, I'll put it in line first. Keep in mind, we're only having a discussion here of one year. Yeah. That's the only difference is which one's paid by one year. That's the only difference. If you put the rental in front, it delays that by one year.

If you put the rental behind, it makes it sooner by by one year if you put the rental behind it makes it sooner by only one year so it's not a if it's not it's not a 10-year issue but with her math that's what we're talking about so it's not it almost doesn't matter yeah but just if i was going to get right down to it i'm going to knock out the personal residence because i i think so many good things happen that people don't even anticipate when they're debt free on their house that I'm going to put them there as soon as I can. 100%. Hey, let me be a Pharisee real quick. Okay.

So let's pretend that. And by the way, you folks notice interest rate did not matter in that discussion. No, not at all. Not at all. Over three years, it's irrelevant. Let's pretend that the numbers worked out a little bit differently and we were vying for her to pay off the rental first i know there's people who are listening going well dave she shouldn't have bought a rental anyway if she didn't pay for it in cash why would you tell her to pay off the rental first and not the primary i don't liquidate real estate unless it's causing

a problem yeah for her it's not if I liquidate a car in a heartbeat. I'll sell your car on you in a moment. Well, it's also depreciating. Yeah, well, I mean, and cars are just land of stupid when it comes to money stuff. But real estate, it's so cumbersome and expensive to liquidate, and it's time-consuming and everything else. I got a house for sale right now.

My personal residence is for sale. And it's a thing. I got a house for sale right now. My personal residence is for sale. And it's just, it's a thing. You know, it's a thing. And so real estate, if you call in and you're in trouble and you're in deep stuff up your neck, I'm going to start selling off the kids, three of the dogs, everything. But the house is the last thing I'm going to sell unless you got a mortgage payment that's 50% of your take-home pay

and you've got to get out of it. All i'm gonna play another game okay because i like this all right so see the devil's advocate whatever whatever game this is because i get into other people's brain okay now there's a guy listening he's like well i make five hundred thousand dollars a year i already live in a house that's 457 but i'm looking at a piece of real estate that's 300 000 why can't i go buy it using the same as the goal the number one goal in the whole discussion is to become debt free and stay debt free it's not now if she called me up and said i've got 10 rentals sure i might be liquidating some of those that's right in order to get to debt free faster and pick which one okay pick the one you don't like dump dump it, right?

That kind of stuff. I'm probably, and you've heard me do that if you listen to this show all the time. So because the shortest distance between where you are now and wealth is not your income. It's the freedom of your income, not going to someone else in the form of debt payments. That is what builds wealth again for the first one to ten million dollars worth of net worth. That's what all of the data shows us. And so freeing up your income, it becomes my number one goal here and not going into debt to buy real estate. That's not my number one goal. Matter of fact, it's the antithesis

of our number one goal so good question though it's a good it's good clarification to bring it up and you know people bring up all kinds of things here's the point a hundred percent of the time that's all the time the borrower is slave to the lender a hundred percent of the time that you engage in debt, you are submitting yourself to some form of mathematical, relational, some kind of slavery. 100% of the time. And 100% of the time you call this show, we're going to tell you not to do it. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you,

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Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Sam's in Birmingham. Hi, Sam. How are you? I'm doing good, Dave. How are y'all? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I'm going into my third year of law school this next year, and I financed law school through student loans, and now my grandmother, who has a lot of money in checking account, she is offered to pay my student loans through our loan servicer so that I can pay her back without interest. And so I'm just wondering if, because I've heard you kind of go against inter-family loans and saying that that might rub the relationship, and I don't want to do that with my grandmother. So I was just wondering if I should tell her that that's a good thing to do or if just taking a gift, maybe less than the full amount of the loans.

I just am wondering how to navigate that. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So how wealthy is your grandmother? She is very wealthy. What's very wealthy? I don't know what that means. Is she worth $10 million or $1 million or $500,000?

What's very wealthy? I would say $2-3 million. Okay. And how many grandkids does she have? She, including my mom, she has four. Kids or grandkids? Grandkids, I think maybe five or six. You don't know how many cousins you have?

Well, some of them aren't under my mom's dad, so I'm trying to think in my head. Okay, but I'm asking, your grandmother has $3 million that presumably will be left to her kids and grandkids, correct? Yes, sir. How many siblings do you have? I have one sibling. Okay.

All right. And your mother has how many brothers and sisters or half-brothers and sisters? She, one just passed away, so she has three okay all right because the reason i'm trying to do all this i'm trying to add up if your share of the inheritance is 140 we might ask her to just advance you your inheritance but not loan it to you not loan it to you, not loan it to you, gift it to you, only to put on the student loan, okay? Or any share of your inheritance that she does want to advance to you as a gift, I would accept that gladly and put it on your student loans. Even if it was an obligation to put it on student loans, I still would accept that.

Would I accept a loan to save the interest 100 no never okay yeah and i guess so in my head my mom would be devised some money to the will but i don't know how i don't know how the estate plan is working, and I guess that's something you need to find out. Is there any of this money, this $3 million, that's going to come your way when your grandmother passes? If the answer is zero, then obviously she cannot advance you against your inheritance because the answer is zero. Yes, sir.

So if it's all coming to your mom and her brothers and sisters and they're not leaving any to the grandkids directly which is not that unusual by the way if then then you don't have an inheritance out of this and so or if your mom wanted to agree to accept the amount that your grandmother gives you less as an advance on her inheritance and it go through to you now that's okay if you want if you guys the three of you want to talk that out you and granny and mom okay i'm fine with that if you don't want to talk about don't do it and if you but in no circumstances are we going to do alone if i'm you? Who's having these conversations? Is it you and your grandmother talking directly or is this that you're finding out about this by way of your

mom or whoever? How's the conversation look? So it started with a phone call with my grandmother and my mom on the line. And so I told my mother and grandmother that you know she probably needs to talk to her estate planning attorney and my grandmother's kind of like well i can go down to the bank and get the money right now and i'm like well you can but you also get screwed by gift tax your advice was correct yeah i just i i wanted to see what the relationship was because it does feel presumptuous in in many ways to be like hey just give me some give me my inheritance in advance like that i i could see no you didn't he didn't bring it up though yeah he didn't bring it up yeah i'd say granny i'm not comfortable doing a loan if you and mom want to talk about a way that this is and that this is an advance on

some of the estate plan and either mom's share or my share or however it works is reduced by the amount you want to give me to reduce the student loans i can talk about that as a gift and we'll put it on the student loans but i don't want to be in debt to you and i'll just work it out but i thank you so much for the kind offer i honor you i appreciate that i know you've got plenty of money but the idea of me having to pay my grandmother payments makes me ill, and I would never want to do that because I love you too much. And that's how it sounds. Does that make sense?

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That's where my head was at on it. Thank you all very much. Thank you for calling in, man. I appreciate it. And so family does this stuff. You know, mom and dad are going to loan the kid grown kids uh uh money to

buy a better house so their grandkids have a better place to live yeah and uh and but we'll do it at four percent interest because the going rate's six and i can't make that on the down at the money market anyway so you just pay me what i was going to make on the money market i've heard that story like i don't know yeah a bazillion times. And sometimes it all works out, but usually at least one or two people in the equation. You know, here's what I discovered, okay? When we went broke, Sharon's dad, who is one of the nicest men, he may be a saint. Yeah. He's one of the nicest men I've ever met.

And just a kind, good man. Mm-hmm. and just a kind good man uh we went broke and he loaned us some money to uh keep our house to bring the house up current so when we filed bankruptcy we could keep the house and um i never thought anything about it because i borrowed it up to my eyeballs and just went bankrupt hello i mean you know and that's where i came up with the saying thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master. Don't I know it?

Because here's the thing. It bothered him not at all. He never thought a thing about it. He's the nicest guy. Didn't bother him a bit, but he was the master. It bothered his daughter, my wife, not at all. Because as far as she was concerned concerned daddy was helping and that's what daddies do not a big deal it about killed me you had sweaty armpits yeah i had yeah that yeah

that's how i lost my hair right there i'm just saying so and he never said an unkind or shaming thing to me once yeah never one time and yet i carried all of this it just ate at me and in silence and it was it was after i paid it off and years later when i'm learning this borrower slave to the lender thing i'm learning this i'm going well that's what happened yeah i changed my relationship with my father-in-law who i love dearly to master and even if your master when you're a slave is a kind master yeah you are still a slave yeah that's so true dave we did the same thing with our we were upside down on a hummer of all things oh god and we knew that's almost as bad as my jaguar i know it's bad yeah my jaguar was the one yeah that's the same stuff but bad credit you know

couldn't get a loan for the difference so our mother-in-law who I would agree one of the most generous people I know lent us the money and it just I mean I couldn't pay I couldn't pay it off fast enough because it just yeah so from their point of view it's generosity and it's kindness and they uphold all of that well they never thought anything about it yeah i never didn't bother them a bit listen being the master is not hard it's being a slave it's hard that's right that's that's the easy position in the story and so yeah that's a good it's a really good call zachary thank you are not zachary i'm sorry sam that's a good question and it's a valid Moms and dads do good things bad ways. Grandmothers do good things bad ways.

That's so true. Because they're ignorant about it. They just don't know. Just mean well. Ignorance is not malice. It's just, I don't know. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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not the right fit, you can switch therapists at any time for no extra cost. This month, start to build your support system with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ramsey Radio. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Today's question comes from Erica in Kentucky. Yeah, she says, my husband runs a landscaping company that's owned by his father. He's been told for years that he'll be taking over the business soon, and he does everything in the business except collect the checks and send the invoices. He has put in a ton of time and invested a lot of money into this business, but he makes the same hourly wage as the other employees on payroll.

He's trying to be patient, but with the low pay and amount of work that he has put in, it doesn't add up for me. And personally, I think he's being used. His dad is now trying to talk him into buying equipment with debt to invest into the business he doesn't yet own. You can't. Uh-uh. Okay, so in Genesis it says, a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. And that's where the old-time preacher would say, leave and cleave.

You leave your father and mother and you cleave, an old English term that became part of the biblical lingo because of king james burton the bible but you leave your parents and cling to your spouse your husband has not done that you have a marriage problem i agree he's still married to his daddy 100 you know i whether they're intending to use him or not it's not a fair situation just reading what you've wrote there's nothing fair here um if he's doing a job and it's above and beyond what other workers are being paid for the job that they're doing yeah that's unfair now there is something to be said for um but we can't even have that discussion because he won't talk to her he listens to daddy yeah but i mean back when i used to work back when i used to work in the cruise business they would say you know i signed

my contract you signed yours which was basically a saying of hey don't complain to me now that this is not fair because you knew what you were getting into when you signed it and so there's part of it i'm like the more that he continues to sign that contract he's saying yes i agree with the problem is not your father-in-law the problem is your husband yeah because he's agreeing yeah he's going along with this and he's not listening to his wife okay now if we stop there and say okay i'm going to quit doing that i'm going to listen to my wife and my wife says this is unfair now we can talk about oh is it unfair or not? Well, here's some good rules for family business,

and I coach a lot of family businesses. I've got a world-famous podcast called Entree Leadership where I coach family businesses every single week, and millions and tens of thousands of them are being coached by us right now by Ramsey. So we deal with them all the time. So here's the guidelines, very simple. You do not invest money in a business you do not own. I don't care who owns it or what the promise was, period.

If I walked up off the street and said, hey, Mr. Employee, would you put money into my business? Well, they'd have to be brain damaged to do that. The only time you'd be brain damaged enough to do that would be your own stupid family. So no no we're not doing it with a stupid family either no number one number two when you work in any business you're only worth what the marketplace says that position is worth you're not worth any more because you're the golden child or any less because your family we get to work our family for free that's why we had a lot of kids

no that's not the plan this is not we're doing and so rachel cruz ramsey personality, makes exactly the same percentage on royalties on books, exactly the same percentage on speaking gigs that Jade sitting beside me makes. Rachel Cruz makes the same as John Deloney. Now, they don't have the same income, but they have the same percentage of their deal. Now, one of them may sell more books or less books. One of them may have more speaking or whatever, right? But that's not the point. The point is they're on the same schedule and she gets paid for that, not because she's

my daughter. And she doesn't get paid less because she's my daughter either. And so that's a simple formula that you should go with. The third formula with family business is if you say you're going to turn over a business to a family member you need to never say that unless you say when someday it'll all be yours when you're 76 and i'm 104 right what kind of crap is that that vague stuff nobody knows what you're talking about you got one so when you say to a 30 year old someday it'll all be yours he thinks next week and you think a decade from now so you need to say not someday you need to say and so you need

to have you need to work hard someday it'll all Oh, brother. How about I don't want to be in the landscaping business with you? There's a whole new idea, too. I'd rather start my own thing. I could make three times as much money as you're paying me. So all that can come up only after we can have some basic family business principles in place for operating a family business and treating each other with equity and with dignity and with high communication levels. And then you don't get to play the role of resentful wife either. You have to play the role of supportive wife then. That's right.

If your husband wants to do this, he likes working with his dad and he's being treated fairly. And I don't think you're saying you just don't like these people but you're starting to not like them because you're getting because they're standing between you and your husband and that's a fair complaint right there yeah she said i'm stuck in the middle how do you get stuck in the middle you can't get stuck in the middle of one thank you i'm like there's a party there that should not be their party of one yeah so i think you and your husband need to sit down and discuss who's in charge here of your life you and him or his daddy and then once we

decide that then we can have a discussion about who gets paid what and if we want to take this business over and under what circumstances but this is where this is where it is and so yeah it's um those are tough conversations yeah it is because when you're in it like if it's your family sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees but then if you're the in-law it's like you can't say you know what i mean like there's certain things that as the in-laws like you can't say to your to your family-in-law right because it just creates you can't talk to them at all no she can't she's not got any footing to do it at all plus she's pissed off yeah so it's not gonna go well if you write a

letter to a radio show you pissed all right just put it in that bucket right there yeah yeah i don't care how many how much language i really like them you put in there you wrote a letter to a podcast so i'm just saying that's what you know uh yeah you honey you got a marriage problem and you know you need to stop being angry with your father-in-law he's not the problem your husband's the problem the two of you being on the same page and him putting you and him as a family unit ahead of everything else starts the conversation. That's where it is. Leave and cleave. It's an interesting study.

Look it up. The number of people who never leave their mother, never leave their father after they're married, and the damage that does to their marriage relationship is it's it's everywhere yeah 100 and it's hard to do it when you live in the basement oh gosh you took it to you always take it to the next level always go always go there too just just helping you with this helping you with this oh boy yeah that's important open phones at 888-825-5225 j Jade, you know why we will always have a compelling and entertaining show? Because human beings are going to do stupid stuff. And we human beings, when we do stupid stuff, me and you included, we're just downright entertaining.

Yeah, 100% every time. You know, this whole building wealth thing, the math is sixth grade. It's the stupid humans that mess it up it doesn't require any thought i mean there's not that much to it live on less than you make well we'd be out of business when the funny thing is it's the same stuff over and over and we've all done it but it's relational yeah, you know, I was reading a thing the other day. It matters more in terms of wealth building. It matters more who you marry than where you went to school.

All day. I believe that all day. So important. And that case in point right there. This is The Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us, America. I dave ramsey your host jade washaw ramsey personality is my co-host the best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a plan to be intentional a plan in the money world is called a budget just tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went every dollar makes it

simple to plan your spending it is the world's best most robust budgeting app tens of millions of people are using this keep pulse on your spending make progress on your money goals follow the baby steps hit every milestone get your questions answered, work the system. Every dollar of the budgeting app will help you do it. You can download it for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Jay is in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, Jay. How are you?

We're doing great. Thanks for having me today. Sure. What's up? I'm doing one of the least favorite things I ever do in life, which is shopping for a car. Um, and we are, my wife and I are on baby step seven. Um, and we have about $15,000 saved so far for a car purchase. Um, but I'm just, I'm wondering what, what you recommend in terms of, uh, uh, a price range for a car for someone in my situation

because I'm looking at these car prices, and unfortunately I remember what cars cost pre-pandemic, and I got sticker shock here. What's your net worth? $800,000. And what's your household income? $160,000. Okay, and you're talking about paying what for a car?

The one that the car we're looking at, it looks like the average cost is $25,000 to $30,000. Okay. What is it? That would be a 21 or 22 Chrysler Pacifica minivan with 40,000 miles or less. Okay. All right. And you've got 15, but you don't have the rest of it? Well, we've got to reallocate some of your investments to buy your wife a car.

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean, we've got plenty. We could write a check. What we're probably going to do is leave that 15 there and take the next few months and save another five or six so you're saving it you're not reallocating our right and we're going to sell my wife's car and get about six from that

so okay you know we're going to so we're just we're we're we're creeping up to it but i'm just uh i'd say do it'm just uncomfortable turning around, turning loose of that much cash all at once. You are a serious type of guy. Yeah. I love you. Well, I mean, the question I have to ask, well, what's the alternative? That would be my question for you.

What's the alternative? You don't buy the $20,000, $25,000 car. What would be your alternative? Well, I mean, if I'm going to buy a car, that's really the only car I'm going to buy because we want to keep it 10 years plus. We want to drive them as long as we can. And so, you know, I don't want to buy anything a lot older than that. I don't want to buy anything with a lot more miles on that.

So then there's not an alternative. This is the car or this is the, you know, this is what you're willing to spend, $25,000. And you realize you have the money, right? Yes, yes. You're not a broke guy calling me up wanting to buy a $30,000 car. No, no, not at all. Do it. Pull the trigger.

Thank you for that perspective. I appreciate that. You bet. that perspective i appreciate that yeah you bet yeah i it's um it's you what happens is as our incomes increase and our networks increase sometimes our emotions don't keep up and so like ramsey ramsey does about 300 million a year in revenue and what we spend on coffee for our team we got 1100 people here the and the coffee's free for employees um so what we spend on coffee blows my freaking mind okay because my mind emotionally still is back when the company was making 10 million not 300 million yeah you know and and we had and we had 10 people or 20 people not 1100 and so i can't i can intellectually look around

and see it and i know we're okay but i look down and i go you've got to be kidding me or what we spend on copier paper you know i mean it's just like bizarre stuff at volume you know and my emotions have not kept up and i have to i have to stop as an act of my will and go dave you're okay you're okay dave you're not going to die because i'm ready to kill something i'm ready to go have some of that caffeine right now and just jack them up but no but i mean that's that's what you're dealing with man that's what i'm my point is it's a normal human thing your brain is not functioning at an 800,000 net worth 160,000 income when you're having this discussion about a car that's it's a true thing let me put it on a

even smaller scale because you've got this giant company so you know usually when we buy paper towels we buy the big costco thing you have a big supply of them in the house well we ran out of paper towels how is that possible if you buy that from costco you'd have enough for 10 years how could you i have kids i have a dog dave we ran out okay i said i said to sam go out and get some paper towels well no costco's far so he just went to publics do you know he came back with that man a single roll of like every great value paper towels and I was like I said what am I supposed to do with this and he was like and it was like once I pointed it out he realized he was like oh like that was the the broke Sam broke Sam

went and got one and got one roll of the cheapest paper towels. And I was like, that old man has got to get out of here because I need you to go get me brawny. Get me a big. Broke Sam, you're fired. We're sending you to Costco to get multi-rolls of the good stuff. Yeah. That was the old way. You know, that's what you do when you're broke. You go get a four-pack of Angel Soft.

You get the smallest. That's good. Well, that's what I'm functioning. I'm functioning in broke Daveave broke dave couldn't he didn't make his income was not what our coffee budget is it's the old man yeah that's broke dave yeah so but dave you're okay jay you're okay you can afford the car buy the car pay cash for it enjoy it happy wife happy life oh yeah and uh you know the federal law wife gets the good car that's federal law that's right okay zachary's in indianapolis hey zachary what's up dave jade nice to talk to

you guys how are you better than we deserve how can we help so what i've got going on um this year i've paid almost just under twenty thousand dollars off in debt including just credit cards and i've already cut my truck payment or I'm sorry, my truck loan in half. Good for you. Um, so I've got 14,000 left and I basically stay with my girlfriend pretty much every night. I have an apartment. She has a house that will be paid off by the end of this year. Um, we plan on moving in together, uh, next month when my lease is up. So I will be able to save, um, basically half of my rent and all utilities that come with it. But she's a very big Dave Ramsey follower as well.

And I guess our question is, um, would you support that? Because I know the whole don't play house, um, if you're not married, but this is the one. And that is my goal. Then marry her. Next year. Marry her. Yes, sir. Before you move in.

How old are you? Okay. I'm 27. Okay. Someday, you're going to have a daughter. How do you want a guy to treat her end of story end of story end of story we're not blaming sex convenience on money saving so if you if you want to get married get married if you don't quit acting like it you asked me yeah that was gonna say that he said the way he

set it up i was like dave is about to come through like a freight train but you you showed restraint good job well i'm i'm you know i i get it i understand it and i understand how your brain has worked your way through this but all the data tells us that the highest quality marriage does not occur with people that first live together. All the data tells us your highest probability of marriage success. I've been married 43 years, and we haven't killed each other yet, so we call that a success. That's in the success column. We're both alive and um you know and so if that if you want to you know check the box all the data says that the best probability

of getting there and nobody talks about this that's very yeah that's data it's like it's like the culture it's like it's like you're not allowed to say that you're telling people they well you shouldn't ask if you don't want me to say it so um i'll just tell you if you were dating one of my daughters or you were my son i'd give you the exact same answer i just gave you sir i love you so much i want good things for you if you want to live with a young lady marry her first this is the ramsey show with the young lady, marry her first. This is The Ramsey Show. I'll see you next time.