The Ramsey Show - App - George & Delony React to Terrible TikTok Advice (Hour 1)

Episode Date: February 25, 2022

George Kamel & Dr. John Delony discuss: Staying calm during geopolitical storms, Why TikTok probably isn't the best source for financial advice, How to get on the same page with your spouse (even when they're incarcerated). Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

I'm out. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, joined today by my friend, Dr. John Deloney, best-selling author, Ramsey Personality, host of The Dr. John Deloney, best-selling author, Ramsey Personality, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, and we are here to help today. So let us know what's on your mind. What is causing you anxiety? There's not a lot going on in the news, John, so I can't imagine what could be freaking

people out these days. But I'm not here, I'm not a geopolitical expert, I just talk about personal finance, and I want to keep it that way. Yeah, I can tell you though, man, that stuff's been weighing on me weighing on me heavy um i saw your post today i follow you on facebook you're the one i'm the one you're the one um yeah i i i've been replaying i've watched the ukrainian people and this astounding bravery. And there's several videos floating around of a father, you know, hugging his daughter goodbye as he puts her in a car. She's a little bitty girl.

And, I mean, I'm a father of a little girl and a young son, and I can't help but replay that in my own mind. Like, what would that feel like and what would that be doing? And then I have to constantly remind myself that thinking about that, would you do in the situation that's good it's good to do that and yet today no one's called me to fight and so if i stay there if i simply loop and repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat i'm just going to spend time not being present in my community in my house in my home and so man one of the greatest antidotes and this is this is neuroscience but one of the greatest antidotes to that sort of rumination is service getting out and doing

something from somebody else and so if there's ever been a day where you feel helpless like i do today man and just just watching folks just get slot i mean if you ever feel helpless today's the day go pick up somebody's tab tonight at dinner, right? Go over tip your waiter or waitress so obnoxiously so that you changed their whole month, right? Do something for somebody else. And that has a leavening effect on our hearts and minds. And it helps lift the whole community up right now, which is what we need, man. Absolutely. Good reminders there, John. Thanks for the encouragement. Open phones this hour, 888-825-5225. Let's talk about your life, your money, mental health, boundaries, relationships, all the stuff that's ruminating in your mind. Let's talk about it. Brian joins us kicking off

this hour in Lakeland, Florida. Brian, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dr. John. Hi, George. How are you both doing? We are doing great. How can we help today? Yes. So my wife and I are on baby step four through six. We paid off our consumer debt recently and we were blessed to receive a company bonus that allowed us to essentially leapfrog baby steps three in less than a month. Awesome. Yeah. So because we have been accustomed to being so good on tense, we feel unified to proceed on to paying off the house with the same intensity. So, George, this is mainly for you as someone who has paid off their house so quickly. Today is my birthday, and I'm wondering if you have any tips, advice, or areas of motivation you have for us to pay off by hopefully my next birthday.

You got me as a good dig, Brian. George, there's somebody here. I'm trying, Brian. I'm trying. He's getting there. I'm trying. Don't worry. We'll all join the club one day with George.

Make sure you preorder John's book to help him pay off his house faster. Being in a club with George is not something many of us would ever aspire to, but maybe this club. Well, thanks for that great intro, John. Well, Brian, first of all, congratulations. I think it's awesome that you guys have this really cool goal, and happy birthday. What a way to spend it, then, with two of your best friends, John and George. Appreciate it. Thank you.

So here's what I'll tell you. Everyone's situation looks different when it comes to Baby Steps 4, 5, 6. There's no wrong way to do it. The only wrong way to do it is to have no intentionality and no goals and just float and hope. And so what I want you to do is set a goal, and you're saying you want to pay this house off in 365 days. Is that correct? That's correct. Is that feasibly possible based on your income

and how much is left on the mortgage? Well, and that's one thing I'm curious about, if we should continue being, as David says, gazelle intense, because our main job is to bring in $120,000, and with our side hustles, if we continue to proceed on with that, we can bring in 155 and we have 77 left on the house. Oh, well, this is, yeah, the numbers here are very promising. I think it's a really cool goal. I mean, I'll tell you this, if you can still enjoy your life to some degree and not look

back with regret and go, oh my gosh, we didn't go on that vacation and we should have, we didn't do this and we should have, we should have upgraded the car because it was running on fumes and we should have. I would still plan for some of that stuff to happen. And that way you don't feel guilty on either side. And I'll tell you, my general rule of thumb is 12 to 18 months. If you can have 12 to 18 months of lunacy and have something done forever, then I say go. I mean, to me, George, it'd be worth the vacation. It'd be worth whatever to knock that out. If you look up and say, okay, it's going to take us 36 months,

there's a reason why baby steps four, five, and six, we tell people, man, you've got to breathe too, right? If you sprint forever, your body will shut you down. If you think you can grind this sucker out in 12 months, man, I say hit the gas. I mean, you already see the light at the end of the tunnel. This is not a, hey, this is a six-year journey. Should we be intense? We talk about this.

We say, you know, gazelle intensity is great, but once you get to 4, 5, 6, we go from intense to intentional. And that's exactly what you're doing by saying we're going to be really intentional. We're going to pay this thing off in 12 months, and then we get to be in baby step 7, living and giving like no one else, man. And you can taste it. I mean, you guys are really, really close. You have a great income. And if the side hustles aren't crushing your life, I'm going to tell you to keep doing it. If that's your goal, there's nothing wrong with that. Hey, Brian, you know what? I would love to see you and your wife do. I'd love to see y'all put a big star next to something you're going to do when this year's over. Like what is your birthday celebration going to be next year?

Or what is a month after your birthday? Put a big carrot out there, dangle it in front of you, and then that will give you some coal in the engine here as you go down the track that will make sure you go all the way through that year, but you're not going to be missing out on everything. It's not going to feel all overwhelming, right? Yeah. You can get there.

How does that feel, Brian? No, that feels great. Yeah. The one thing I'm just curious about is I know with Baby Step 2, most of these things were charging you interest by the day, and so now that we're dealing with the mortgage, regardless of what payment you do, they're going to charge you interest by the month. So that's why I'm kind of curious of how to continue grinding

when you're not really necessarily needing to make a payment until the next month. So here's a thing that I learned when I was running track. Sometimes you race in a race, like in a race race, you're racing your compadres, right? You're racing the people on the track who's next to you, your competitors, fellow competitors. But most of the time when you're grinding out your training, you're racing yourself. You're racing a watch. And so who cares at this point? You are so close to the finish line here. Who cares what the interest rate is? You've got a fixed number that you're going after that you're going to whittle away at. I would not even let that enter my mind. You have no other

competitors from this point forward but you. And you're racing the watch here on this one let's just knock it out man who cares about that stuff i feel good thank you both i appreciate it yeah man thanks so much man man i love to hear stuff like that i mean he sounds like a young guy real intentional and it's possible because they just got real focused they have the shovel shovel. They're doing the side hustles, and they're willing to stick it out. And they're being even more countercultural than we usually tell folks to do, and they're saying, you know what? One more year, we're going to bite the bullet on this one, and then on my birthday next year, the gift I want is to owe nobody anything.

I love it. Brian, call us back when you pay off that mortgage on your next birthday. Can't wait for that call. Hey, stick around. Coming up, we are going to be playing a video from TikTok, and we will react to it. And who knows what John's reaction will be. He doesn't even know what TikTok is. It's going to be good.

Stick around. 888-825-5225. You call us. We'll talk about your life and your money. This is The Ramsey Show. No matter what time of year it is, focusing on your family's financial plan is always a smart move. I get questions all the time about where to start and what to do first. One of the most crucial and affordable first steps to take is to protect your family and get term life insurance. I know it's not glamorous, but all the other steps mean

a lot less if something happens to you and your family has no financial protection. Getting term life insurance needs to be a top priority. I recommend 10 to 12 times your income and lock in rates for 15 to 20 years. This gives you plenty of time to get out of debt and build wealth. I've been recommending Zander Insurance for over 20 years, and they understand and live this strategy. And we'll take the time to help you find the most affordable term life rates. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. It's not that expensive, it's not complicated, and you need to do it now. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm George Campbell, joined today by Dr. John Deloney. All right, John. You know about TikTok? I've got several of them on the wall in my house. Oh, boy. Both clocks. Okay. This is going to take a while, guys.

Buckle in. So TikTok is a social media platform. I know what it is. It's blown up in popularity among the youth and now among the olds. That's what they call them. They call them the olds. The olds. Yes.

I'm learning from Gen Z. I'm learning. And so here's the deal. This radio show is mostly geared towards the olds. If you've heard about TikTok, you know, oh, isn't that just like weird dance challenges? It has become so much more. And so there's a lot of personal finance TikTokers out there creating content to help the people. Yeah, I've seen some of the personal physical fitness and mental health advice. That's what shows up on your feed. Some of the TikTokers are bestowing upon us all.

Yeah. And it's a lot of 17-year-olds with opinions about how you should handle your money, how you should handle your mental health. I watch a couple of TED Talks and I know everything. You're a genius. I'm a genius. So I stumble upon videos all the time

that just cause me to be very angry very instantly because it's just a cesspool of terrible financial advice that is just helping Gen Z go into debt faster, because that's how to set up the youth of America for their adult life. Thanks, TikTok. And so as I come across them, I thought, why don't we play one on the show for all of America to hear? Okay. Let me set this up. This is a girl who's playing two characters, same person, two characters. It's going back and forth, and she's the mom and she's the daughter. But talking to herself in a very clever way.

Yes. Oh, I love clever. And the mom is anti-credit card, and the daughter is explaining to mom why she's a genius and you should have a credit card. So let's play the clip, and let's see your reaction. Mom, I'm ready for my first credit card. Absolutely not. Credit cards are evil, honey. No, they're not. Do you even know how they work? Yeah, it's literally a card with money on it. The money

belongs to a bank, and every time I use the card to buy something, I'm borrowing their money to pay for it. See? You're using their money. This is going to get you into a lot of debt. No, it can get me into debt if I use it irresponsibly, but I won't let that happen. How are you gonna manage that? When the bill comes each month, I have the option to pay the minimum amount or the entire amount that I borrowed. If I pay the full amount every month, then I'll never owe any interest or get into debt. And what if you forget to pay? I won't spend more money than I have and I'll turn on autopay, so it will automatically pay off the entire balance every month. Fine, but

why not just use your debit card if you have the money anyways? They reward you with things like cash back or free travel, plus it builds your credit score. Okay, it looks like you know your stuff. How did you learn all this? Madison taught me. She teaches all the money hacks. That's why I follow her. I literally want to set my own hair on fire. John, I can't breathe. This is a lot. Just to see if I can still feel. Way to go, America. I think I held my breath during that whole video. I'm just now realizing.

Yeah, you should breathe during times of stress and crisis. I've heard you have experience with breathing exercises. That is right. So, okay. There's a lot to unpack here, John. Number one. It looks like there's very little to unpack. You're right.

But I just need to say it because it needs to be said. That advice is one of the many reasons. And let me tell you, that video, millions of views. Really? Half a million likes. Wow. This is what the younger generations are clinging to, going, yes, finally, someone who gets it, because my mom was just telling me the same thing. Dumb old mom.

I'm like, Mom, you don't understand. I'm going to pay it off every month. And so it just brings me to this point, John. Will Smith already sang that song. Parents just don't understand. We've dealt with the credit card issue time and time again, but let me just reiterate why that advice is going to cause a lot of harm to your life. Number one, we get a lot of debt-free screams that come through this lobby. We've had 72 so far this year that have paid off over $10.5 million total. You know how they went into that debt, John? Do you think they went and opened a credit card and said, well, I'm going to pay it

off every month? So why not? Everyone who opens a credit card is like, oh, I'll take care of it. No one opens one going, oh, can't wait to go into debt and carry a balance every month. You know what I really want to do? Shackle my family and all of our future dreams. That sounds awesome. It's a good time. That's right. And here's the thing.

In a perfect world where there was no sin, there was no fall of man, we could probably use credit cards responsibly, John. James, George is getting existential in here, man. We live in a fallen world, and humans are fallible creatures, and we have the best intentions, don't we, John? I'm going to work out three times this week. I actually did, but it's cool.

I forgot The Bachelor was on, so I'm going to miss this workout. Right? I'm just saying there's so many great intentions we have as a society and then what happens? Life hits us.

Right. I thought I could make the payment and then I couldn't and then this happened and this happened, so I had to get a personal loan and so then I had to get the car loan. And it's just spirals.

Right, to borrow from my roommate. And then all of a sudden, my friendship's kind of wonky, right? This exact thing, that exact advice when I was in college, I had a credit card, and I would pay it off every month, pay it off every month, pay it off every month. And then my transmission fell out of my 88 Tercel EZ hatchback, right? And big shocker, right? And I didn't have it that month.

And so I was like, I'll make it up. I'll make it up. Years went by before I made it up, right? And it took one thing that happened, one thing that caught me. Right. Let me hit you with some stats in the face, John. I prefer you don't hit me, but go ahead.

I couldn't if I wanted to. Americans' total credit card balance today stands at $856 billion. With a B. Every single one of those people said, I'm going to pay it off every month. Let me hit you with another one. National average card debt among cardholders with unpaid balances over $6,500. Americans carried a balance on 52% of all active credit card accounts in the third quarter of 2021.

So they're just handing money over to massive banking institutions. So one out of two people who had great intentions are carrying a balance and a large one at that. And for all credit cards, here's the average APR. The interest rate on these things is almost 16% right now. Oh my gosh. And so here's the thing. She's saying, well, I can get 2%. Or you could pay 16% on that money. Which counteracts every little bit of every penny that you got towards your flight points, which, by the way, who knows what 200,000 points are worth?

They do that on purpose so that it's confusing, and you think you're rich, and then you go try to book a flight, and they go, sorry, you need 100,000 more points. You can buy those for another $400, though. That's right. And so on top of that, there's the credit score argument. You got to build your score, right, John? To eat, to breathe, to get married,

you got to have that credit score. To be a respectable American adult, you better have a good credit score. And as someone who didn't have a credit score for a long time, I just paid off my mortgage. It will fall away soon after. I got a mortgage without a credit score. I've rented cars without a credit score. I've rented apartments, multiple, without a credit score, houses without a credit score. And so this idea that we've convinced our children that you need to get a credit card early to build your credit score, to go into debt so you can build a score, to go into more debt, is the reason we are almost a trillion dollars in credit card debt. Just credit card debt, not to mention mortgage debt, more debt, is the reason we are almost a trillion dollars in credit card debt. Just credit card debt. Just credit card debt.

Mortgage debt, car debt, student loan debt. It was two big shockers. One is our friend Anthony O'Neill when he called up all of those apartment complexes and just said, hey, I have no credit score. Can I still rent an apartment? And they're like, yeah, of course you can. Ten of them. And then the other one was if you got a million dollars tomorrow your credit score would stay at zero

it has no no relation to how much wealth you have to how you handle money it's not money management it's debt management that's right so on top of that if that wasn't enough john here's the thing if you pay off your credit card every month and you're a good little boy or good little girl, you end up with $0. Aw. Right? That's not a cash flow plan. That works. No, they give you 2% cash back.

That's right. I'm going to get rich. And I've done the math on that, John, in our fine print episode. You know I like to do math. We did one on the true cost of credit card rewards. And I did the math on, here's what it would take. You would have to spend $25,000, $30,000 to get a few hundred dollars back. I know, but it sounds so good when it says cash back. So you're after tax money that you're spending buying things you already would have bought, right? That's always the argument. I'm

only buying things that I budgeted for. Right. And we know that the psychology of that debt is not true. You spend more money when you're using plastic. You spend more money when you're clicking on the internet. When it's someone else's money, too. That's exactly right. When I'm exchanging cash. Yeah. So there's a lot going on here.

On top of all of that. Yeah, hit me, baby, one more time. On top of all that, John, here's the part that people don't think about. When you get the cash back, it's usually on the backs of the people who couldn't afford it. That's the one that haunts me as a citizen, as a neighbor, that I get my lower rate because somebody else is struggling to pay their life bill. Someone else got screwed. That's exactly right. How do you like your flight now?

And I'm participating in a system that's hurting people. Enjoy your free vacation, guys. Wow. All right, stay off of TikTok for now, John. Forever. Mostly you. Forever. Maybe forever. We'll get on there, John. We'll change, guys. Wow. All right. Stay off of TikTok for now, John. Forever. Mostly you. Forever. Maybe forever.

We'll get on there, John. We'll change the world. Forever. One TikTok at a time. We need no more dances. Good stuff. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Ramsey personality, Dr. John Deloney.

And on the debt-free stage, we have James and Lindsey. How are you guys? What's up? Good. Good. You too? Where are you guys from? Michigan.

Michigan. I'll take it. Yes. Okay. You too? Where are you guys from? Michigan. Michigan. I'll take it. Yes. Okay. And here to do your debt-free scream, you made it from the cold to the cold, and we are here for it. We brought snow to our warm city this morning, so thank you for that. Fantastic.

So how much debt have you guys paid off? $450,000. Golly. Okay. That had an extra zero than I was expecting. That's incredible. And how long did that take? Nine years. Okay. That had an extra zero than I was expecting. That's incredible. And how long did that take? Nine years.

Okay. And what was the range of income during that time? 90 to 120. Wow. A nine-year journey. You've been sprinting for a decade. I feel like there's a story in here somewhere. What do you guys do for a living?

I do bookkeeping, accounting, financial. And I'm a plumber pipe fitter and owned a business for the past four years. Fantastic. Awesome, awesome. Okay, so what type of debt was the 450? Well, you know, in the beginning we had a little credit card and, you know, not much in that. And then we had a vehicle and, you know, the usual stuff. House. House, you know. You paid your a vehicle and the usual stuff. House.

House. You paid your house off? Hold on a little bit. Yeah. No more mortgage. We're looking at weird people, John. Yeah, dude. Your house, what's it worth?

Well, we actually sold it and we're on the road right now. We're going to build up in northern Michigan completely debt free. Wow. You're just hoofing it now. We're hoofing it. You're hoofing it you're rving it living the youtube dreams man that's incredible guys way to go you guys are incredible okay nine years is a long time to stay focused on any goal how did you guys do this and what got you started family friends church you know i mean we heard it from a few different uh avenues i guess if you will and uh

you know we just i'm like man paid off house that's that's unheard of and we said we want that you know so we uh we want what's after that the peace yes after that and the ability to bless others because so who sat down and had the first conversation with who and said, I'm tired of living like this. Let's do something different. That conversation didn't go well, did it? Well, it did and it didn't. But, you know, I mean, most of the beginning debt was mine. So it wasn't, you know, it wasn't that hard.

So, you know, we just, yeah, got after it. So how much of this debt was the house? Well, we had about $350,000. Wow. So you had $100,000 on the consumer debt side, and you got through all of that and just kept plowing through. And actually, to clarify, we were down $45,000 more of that was the first house. So we almost paid off the first house, paid off the second house. Wow.

Very cool. So how do you stick it out for nine years because there's some people out there who have been doing this plan for nine months and they're going it's just been too long i don't know if i can stick it out end game you know i mean that that light at the end of the tunnel and you know we just it wasn't that we did it nine straight years i think we like i think everybody has ups and downs. Sure. And we had those too. Some months you were crushing it

and some you're like, man, this is hard. So what was the hardest part over the nine years? What was the hardest thing you guys had to do? Boy, I don't, I mean, really just,

you know, I mean, the budget's obviously hard. You know, I mean, That's probably the hardest part. Yeah, I guess that would be the hardest. Making it, sticking to it. Yeah. Making it, sticking to it, exactly. Wow. Did you guys live your life along the part. Making it stick to it? Yeah. Making it stick to it, exactly.

Wow. Did you guys live your life along the way, or was it just like nothing? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we were, yeah, no problem. Look at James. He's like, oh, brother, I'm living my life. We lived. Hey, so you've got two little kids.

What got in your mind and your hearts and souls to make this transition to sell your house and road trip it for a while? Well, we liked the area we were in, but we wanted to be a little further north where it's colder for some reason. But yeah, be a little further north. And we love boating, and there's a lot of stuff to do up there. And these girls love that. The outdoors, I guess the outdoors drew us north. And to do this and to

you know continue the journey so how many more years do you got left um on on the road oh we're just a couple months we're gonna we're gonna head yeah we've been on the road for almost two months and then we'll head back here maybe two weeks when the snow goes away you'll start building your new house then yes wow so you're ready to rock and roll in this new place. Yep. Wow. That's incredible. You guys are awesome.

We're so proud of you. Thank you. So tell people who are maybe just starting this journey who have aspirations to have a paid-for home like you guys, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Being consistent and knowing that you're doing it. If you have children, it's for your kids. It's for what you can do when you're debt-free,

the people that you can bless along the way now. I mean, even in the four months that we've been debt-free, what we've experienced, the testimonies from God has been incredible. What do you tell folks who are fantasizing? They watch one too many HGTV shows or YouTube clips and they think, I'm going to sell everything and hit an RV and we're going to take the family on the road. What's one thing you'd pass along to them?

Do it. Yeah, for sure. Get after it. Yeah. It's worth it. I can tell on your faces. There's a levity and joy that can only come from that level of financial peace. So if you had the moment, you've been debt-free for a few months,

have you had the moment where, I'm assuming you've had the moment where the paycheck deposits and you don't have any bills and you just get to keep all of your own money. All of it. And then you get to tip that waitress really, really well. Yes. That's incredible. Yeah. It's fun.

I wish, if you're just listening to this, you can't see. Go on YouTube and watch. You two guys are glowing like lamps, man. You're just, you're smiling. I can feel it through the glass. It's incredible, man. The peace is written all over you.

And having those whys is so important. You've got the kids. You've got wanting to give more and the freedom and options that come with this when you don't have a payment in the world, including to your mortgage lender, it's a game changer. It is. You guys are amazing. So you brought the kiddos with you. When you don't have payment in the world, including to your mortgage lender, it's a game changer. It is.

You guys are amazing. So you brought the kiddos with you. We've been talking about them. Bring them up. What are their names and ages? Adeline is 10, and Hayden will be 5 tomorrow. Oh, happy birthday. Happy early birthday.

Birthday is tomorrow. Happy birthday. So cool. What a beautiful family. And it's even more beautiful when they're debt-free, John. There's just a glow about them. I think they're always beautiful. Okay, that's fair.

That's fair. Well, we've got a copy of Dave's national best-selling book, Baby Steps Millionaires. That is absolutely the next chapter in your journey as you've changed your family tree, as you leave this amazing legacy for your family. We're so proud of you. And we're going to give you a copy of Dave's book, The Total Money Makeover, that's helped so many people get on this plan. And so I hope you give it to that person. Maybe you put a hundred dollar bill in there along with it as a little bribe. So, hey, read this.

It changed our life. And happy birthday, Hayden. That's right. Happy, happy birthday. I thought you were going to start singing, John. I went, don't do that. I almost did, but we're out of time. For a thousand reasons, don't do it. Alright, you guys ready? You've been practicing in the car? Yep. You ready? Okay, here we go. We've got James and Lindsay and Adeline and Hayden. $450,000 paid off. House and everything in

nine years, making $90,000 to $120,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Awesome! And the party continues.

We're the birthday tomorrow. Happy birthday. Not to me. Not to you. Man, that stuff never gets old, John. It's watching people. I love watching people's body posture um that's that's i love watching people as they explain how what freedom sounds like it feels like but i like

watching their body because you can watch them over the arc of a debt-free screen they talk about hey here's what happened and they their body's low and you can hear it in their voice you see on their face and as they start processing out loud i don't have any payments i don't owe anybody anything you it's like a light comes on man and these two are just glowing the whole family's so beautiful you're just glowing like crazy i just love it i love it love it love it it's like one of those frames that at walmart of just the perfect family that's them right now just pure joy and they're not actors this is real life that's the difference they're not paid actors man we're so proud of you guys. This is what we do.

We do this for this reason, John. That's right. I love seeing this impact. Yeah, and if you are watching this on YouTube and you can see James, if you ever wondered what I look like in a t-shirt, we pretty much have the same upper body. Yeah, he works out just a little more.

I'm going to agree with you on that. Fair point. I'm pretty sure that he does. Wow. He's got better impulse control too. I want the listeners to know that they may be listening going, that can't be me. I'm not James and Lindsey. I've done too many stupid things.

I've got too much debt. Man, there is still hope for you. It's never too late. I don't care if you're 20 or you're 80. You can get out of debt. You can experience the same freedom. It is possible. And you may be a radical for four months.

Yep. Or nine years. It's worth it, worth it, worth it. It's worth it every time. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, joined today by Dr. John Deloney. And we are taking your calls about life, money, relationships, career, mental health, wellness, the metaverse. We'll talk about it all.

888-825-5225 is the number to call our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more make sure to use the promo code Ramsey to get the best deal. Today's question comes from Taylor in Maryland. Taylor writes, I'm married to a serious spin thrift. I started using every dollar when he was incarcerated three years ago. I'll go ahead and underline that one. With my single income, I was able to tithe, pay all our bills on time, fund car and home repairs,

and pay off $40,000 in student loan debt with $65,000 left to go. Can I just stop there? Incredible, Taylor. Way to go. In our phone conversations, he makes big future money plans that I think are unwise. If we benefit from the Navient settlement where the debt is canceled and refunds are paid out, the timing of the payout would be just after he'll return home. How do I deal with the stress of trying to keep any refund from being wasted? He's seen the success from following the plan, and his response is basically, that's great, I'm proud of you, but we're not following that plan when I get home. There's a lot of yikes going on in this situation john but man taylor's

incredible taylor's solo her out i'm like man she's crushing it it's it's it's it does my heart good when we can just stop and stop the the party here for a second and just call somebody out and say what an incredible human being while your husband was in jail for a couple of three years you managed to take control back in your home and i guarantee you took control back in your heart and your mind your spirit and you started just saying how can i move forward and instead of curling up you went after man this is incredible this is an inspiring person um so he george here's a a problem i i see that haunts all of us okay not just taylor haunts all of us and i'll um i'll use this as an example when my son was born he was a day old and we brought him or two day three days old we brought him home from the hospital i could see the chaos that erupted into our home. I didn't know we had to change diaper. I knew we

had to change diapers. I didn't know it was 10 times a day and I didn't know this and all that. And suddenly this clock started ticking in my head, which was when things get back to normal, when, when things are just going to get back to the way they were. When me and my wife could just go on dates whenever we wanted to, we could spend money like idiots, we could do whatever we wanted to do, when they just get back to normal, right? And whether it's having a new baby, whether it's dating and then getting married,

whether it's getting a new job, moving to a new town, or whether it's your husband's coming home from three years, it's so easy to just default to, well, when things get back to the way they were. And unfortunately, and fortunately, there is no going back, right? Things are different now. And so I love, love this analogy

that you could not go to Manhattan and get all of the glass and steel and smoke and dust and sweep it all up and rebuild the Twin Towers. You can't do that. We had to go in with architects and construction firms and demo teams and excavate the whole site, get some professionals around us and say, what's this new building going to look like? And we had to redesign it.

It gets to be strong. It gets to be arguably beautiful. It gets to be a monument to what was and a nod to the future and we're going to rebuild something completely different so when i look at somebody like this like taylor who has had to be on their own because for whatever reason her husband was in jail for three years there is no going back there's taylor's world now right and taylor has sounds like she's found a new voice. She's found some actions that back up that voice

and she's found two feet planted in the ground. And what I want Taylor to do is to immediately go sit with a counselor that's going to help with re-entry here. How are you going to learn how to speak your boundaries out loud?

How are you going to say, I'm sorry, but this is, we're going to do this together now you're not just going to come home and start making up the rules that got you in trouble in the first place right oh yeah and it's about we're going to excavate what was we used to run the house this way you used to do some things this way we're now going to do things different or and then you got to have your or what statement right and so if somebody comes home out of jail and immediately throws my family back into a situation we we're not safe, we're going to have some hard conversations.

Yeah, I just kept thinking, Taylor's a different person now. That's right. She started the plan after he went to jail. Right. And now here she is, a different person with a different set of plans and values and goals and different financial standing. And different strength. Yeah. Different grit and resilience and different financial standing. And different strength, right? Different grit and resilience and autonomy.

These deeply embedded character things. Her body went from fight or flight to we're moving forward, right? And that's a different physiology. I just kept thinking, Taylor's better off alone than she is with him. That was my honest thought, if you want to know, John. Well, when it comes to money, possibly. And it sounds like, you know know we always read into these things um it sounds like she is hesitant about him coming home yeah and so man i want you to get with somebody that's going to help turn these boundaries these new found actions this newfound character newfound strength

that's going to be able to turn that into something that you can share with somebody and that you can stand up and say, no, no, no, no. This is my boundaries from this point forward. Yeah. Counseling is a non-negotiable here. That's right. For sure. Awesome. Thanks for the question, Taylor. Good for you, Taylor. I appreciate it. Alright, Kevin joins us in Baltimore, Maryland. Kevin, welcome to the Ramsey

Show. Hey, guys. How's it going? Great. How can we help? Just a quick backstory on me. I started the Baby Steps. Hey, guys. How's it going? Great. How can we help? Just a quick back story on me. I started the Baby Steps. I was turned on from a guy that I work with to the Baby Steps and to the Ramsey plan. I started last year. It was actually my New Year's resolution last year to start, and I actually see it through, and so far I've done that.

Way to go, man. Awesome. I'm about $7,000 away from being done Baby Step 2. That's on one of those stupid credit cards that you guys were just talking about a little while ago. You had every intention of paying off. Make a TikTok video. Make a TikTok video, man. Well, my goal was to have it done by the summer, by my birthday, actually, in the summer.

So as of right now, I don't see any reason why I won't have it done. Awesome. But looking forward, I've been listening to a lot of the podcasts, and every once in a while somebody will ask questions about real estate investing, rentals, that type of thing. And I was curious if you guys or if Ramp Solutions had some sort of literature or some sort of, like, program, sort of like what you guys do with FPU, that is kind of like at it would be a good head start for me. Because like I said, once I get to that point, I want to start preparing now. So that way,

when I get to that point, I can potentially start investing in real estate and would like to hit the ground running as opposed to hit the ground and fall on my face. I was just curious if you guys had anything or what should I be doing now, I guess, to start planning for that. We do have some great resources, blog articles. You can go through the legacy journey. If you've got a Ramsey Plus membership, we've got that whole course, which is Dave's plan for kind of, you've made it through the baby steps, now what? And that's where real estate investing would fall into. So do you currently have a primary residence and a mortgage? Yeah. So unfortunately, I was in the process of building a house when I got actually turned on to the Baby Steps.

So that part right now, I'm kind of stuck on until at least when I'm done through Baby Step 3, and then I'm going to reevaluate my mortgage and look into potentially refinancing it maybe into a 15-year. I've heard him say about the make sure that it's worth it, kind of like your break-even type thing. So once I get done through Baby Step 3, I'm going to visit that and see where I am in regards to that. Why are you waiting until Baby Step 3? What keeps you from going to check on that right now? Well, the only reason I'm waiting right now is because with only a few months potentially left, I'd like to have the extra money to be able to knock out my credit card debt as opposed to

the potentially higher mortgage that I'm going to have every month. You know, a few extra hundred dollars that I might be able to put on my debt as opposed to sending it to the mortgage. Okay. Well, Kevin, I'll make it real simple for you. You're not ready to be a real estate investor. You've got to make it through the baby steps, which means you get the fully funded emergency fund. We start investing 15% of our household income into retirement. If you've got kids, we're putting some money away for college.

Then we're paying off our primary mortgage, and then we're at baby step seven. And that is when you'd start socking away cash and paying cash for any other real estate as an investment. So George, the answer to this question ultimately is make a lot of cash. Yes.

Start socking away and earning cash as fast as you can. Follow the plan. Pay everything off. And you get to keep all of that rental income. Boom. How's that for ROI?

Thanks for the question, Kevin. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.