The Ramsey Show - App - Get Serious and Be the Grown-Up in the House (Hour 2)

Episode Date: January 1, 2019

The show about you

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show. Thank you for joining us. It's your show because we talk to you. We really talk to you. Isn't that amazing? Instead of talking at you.

The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Will is with us in Chicago. Hey, Will, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I just started graduate school, and I have $23,000 in undergraduate loans.

All of those loans have been put on deferment, and all of them are subsidized, so they're not accruing any interest. I already have $25,000 saved and can save about $400 a month from now for the next five years. So my question to you is, do I take that $400 and start paying off my undergraduate student loan debt or put it into a retirement or investment account? What is your graduate work in? Chemistry. And how long will you be doing? You're going to do five years?

Are you getting a Ph.D.? Yes. Okay. Okay. Well, the thing that – and how are you paying for graduate school? I got a tuition fee waiver, so for all of my classes, everything, it's roughly $1,000 a year, and I get a stipend of $26,000 a year, which is why I can save roughly $400 to $600 a month. And where are you living? How are you living?

In the city of Chicago mean a couple of roommates okay twenty six thousand dollars a year you can live on and you have four hundred dollars left yeah okay so you're living very frugally uh give or take yeah yeah okay i mean fourteen fifteen hundred bucks a month in Chicago is pretty frugal. Okay. Good. Alright. Well, here's the thing. The best investment Will can make is in Will. And in other words, the first goal

of this whole conversation is for you to graduate with no more debt. Okay. You said you had how much in student loan debt today? $23,000 in student loan debt, yet I already have $25,000 saved. So if I wanted to, I could pay it off immediately right now. I would today.

And then everything else I would save, not invest. I would put it in a simple money market account. I'm not trying to make any money on it. In case there's a bump in the road with your graduate work and you need some money to complete it without borrowing money. So the first goal is for you to get out of debt. The second goal is for you to graduate with no more debt. If you accomplish those two things and $400 a month is $5,000 a year, $4,800 a year for five years, that's another $25,000 you got saved because you ended up playing through exactly as you think you're going to. And you're not going to need a thing, you don't need a dime to graduate.

That's the best-case scenario, and it's a likely case the way things are looking right now, so it's a reasonable assumption. But let's say that that happens and you graduate with $25,000 in an account and your Ph.D. in chemistry and zero debt. That's not a bad day. Fair enough. And then you've got the money to make a transition because you'll likely, I'm guessing you're going for a professorship or you're going to do something else.

I was hoping industry, but I wouldn't be upset. Either way. You could do both, actually, probably. Okay. But you might end up moving. You might end up, and you might need some money to move to a different city and take the big job, so to speak, when you get out. And so it takes five years to do that. I would have thought you could have done it quicker than that.

It's because the first two years are classes, and then the next three years are conducting your own research and publishing papers right well yeah and you've got to you know you've got to do all your yeah okay all right i'm in i just wow that's impressive so here's the deal i'm looking at this as a risk management thing you as a chemistry, one thing we know about you for sure, you're good at math. You're crunching numbers only. I'm looking at bumps and bruises and scars that life brings. Those are called risk and they don't always show up in the numbers.

I'm most concerned that we'll graduate with this fabulous income potential with a Ph.D. in chemistry, and you're obviously a very bright person. And if you can come out with that unscathed financially and end up with $10,000, $20,000 in the bank and graduate with no more debt, you have had a good run, brother. Thank you so much. And you're set up to win.

So I'm not worried about your long-term investing. You've got plenty of time to do that because your income is going to be incredible. You're going to be able to make bank between industry and teaching, both with that. So way to go, dude. And what a deal you landed there, man. That's awesome. Congratulations. Very, very cool.

Nicholas is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Nicholas. How are you? Hey, Dramsie. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Well, like your last caller, Will, I'm a college student.

I have about six months to go until I graduate. All right. What's your degree in? Business studies, or BA. Good for you. All right. What's your degree in? Business studies. Good for you. Cool. I was recently offered a job opportunity that offers

close to six figures. But it would mean I would have to drop out of school because it's a full-time job at that point. Do you think I should stick with the school and hope another job opportunity comes later or jump with the opportunity that was offered? So who's offering somebody that does not have a college degree a hundred grand? Well, I have about seven years of industry

experience. I've been working incongruent with my degree. I took two years off, and then I went back to school to finish it. Gotcha. Okay. So what is your industry experience in? Hospitality, hotels, restaurants. Okay. And so you quit that world to finish your degree? Correct.

And now that world came and tried to bribe you out of that goal? Correct. Not a bad day. It. Not a bad day. That's not a bad day. These are not bad choices you got in front of you. I don't know. Just what does the goal hold, are you? 24.

Okay. So when you're 44, which one will you be glad you did? Oh, that's a hard question, isn't it? Well, let's say you finished your degree you think you can't land another one of these well i i think i could yeah i think you can too and i think your original goal was to finish this degree i'm not huge on the end of the world begins and ends on college degrees. I love them, and I think education's important. But I'm trying to think this is your goal.

And I think down inside you want to play through, and you want somebody to give you permission to walk away from $100,000. I'm going to give you that permission because $100,000 is waiting on you the other side of the degree. You'll still get that job. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet, but they're starting to make headway with their budgets

and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen. Their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to ZanderInsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is.

Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones this hour. Phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. John is in Raleigh. Hey, John, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks for taking my call, Dave.

Sure, man. What's up? All right. I'm 33 years old. I'm in Baby Step 3D. I have about $13,000 above my $6,000 emergency fund, and I need a new car. And I'm wondering how much I need to spend on my new car. Okay.

And what's your household income i make about 45 000 a year what else do you own that has a motor in it i have a car now and it's a truck it's about 15 years old it's got 300 000 miles yeah but you're getting rid of it i mean do you own other toys with motors no No, I have a lawnmower. Okay. It's not a $6,000 lawnmower, right? No, no, absolutely not. Okay, because they make them. Okay.

All right, because here's my rule of thumb is this. After studying millionaires for years, and the goal here is to try to build wealth, right? They invest a small percentage of their world into things that go down in value the biggest thing that you and i and all of us buy that goes down in value is stuff with motors in it cars and boats and trucks and rvs and c-doos and snowmobiles and six thousand dollar john deere tractors and whatever else. They all go down in value, right? Right. And so we want to limit the damage to our finances while having good transportation

and enjoying what we drive. I'm a boy. I like to drive a fun car. So you want it to be a small percentage of your world so that it's not doing damage. You follow me yes so all of that to say i came up with a good guideline that says with rare exceptions you should not own a total of things with a motor in them total up everything you own with a motor in it which you don't have anything so we're okay um that is more than half your annual income. So if you spent the whole $13,000, you would not violate that.

You see what I'm doing? But if you wanted to spend $33,000, even if you had the cash, making $45,000 a year, that would be silly. Because you're buying something that's going to go from $33,000 to $11,000 in about three heartbeats.

Right? I guess my question was, should I spend the entire $13,000 or should I maybe spend half of it? You can. But pay cash for whatever you buy, and you could spend up to $13,000. Okay. Your emergency fund sounds like it might be a little slim to me. I might move some of that $13,000 and beef up your emergency fund a little bit. So I might do something like move three more over there and then spend 10 on the car or something

like that have about 10 in my emergency fund about a ten thousand dollar car you can get a lot of car for ten thousand bucks especially compared to what you're driving right now right exactly so um and just watch what you're doing and you know but pay cash for it and you you know you've done a great job handling money you're out of debt you know, but pay cash for it. And, you know, you've done a great job handling money. You're out of debt. You got your emergency fund. You've saved up money beyond that to buy your car. Man, you're killing it.

Well done. Thanks, sir. I appreciate it. Thanks for calling in. Happy New Year. Joe is in Rochester, New York. Hey, Joe, how are you? Joe?

Yeah, can you hear me? Absolutely, sir. How are you? Good you good good i'm a huge fan um i paid off all my debt all i have is my mortgage now good for you i am thank you i'm ready to start investing um i know you always say not to go with um banks for open up roth irs and stuff like that. Right. But the guy at the bank I've been talking to is a huge fan of yours. He supports pretty much everything you say. He reads all your books. And I was still wondering, and he has the heart of a teacher, I think. I've been to a couple other people, and I never really felt as comfortable as I do with this guy.

Okay. But it's kind of conflicting on what you say, because you say not to invest with the with the banks yeah i don't the only thing i've got is why does he still work there he should go get i don't know go get a job with like a great mutual fund company if he's all of the things you described because he could make a killing he'd make a lot more than make it that bank but anyway um i'm okay with it in your case. But the thing is this, the thing you've got to be aware of is this. Every week, they trot everybody that works at the bank, including the tellers, into a room and tell them how to sell credit cards and home equity loans to people. They're better salespeople than used car sales people are and every week he gets his value system that he where he says he

follows me attacked by his employer and so you've got yeah you've got to be on guard about him getting infected with that disease that's the problem so as long as you can be on guard for that and you're comfortable making your own decisions, and, you know, the guy's a great guy. It sounds like he's a good guy. I mean, I don't have a problem with him. But, you know, he's got the heart of a teacher. He says he's following my stuff. You know what my stuff is.

You follow that. The four types of mutual funds, good long-term track records, you know, five, 10-year, 20-year track records on the mutual funds, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth international. You got all that dialed in, right? Yeah, I told them pretty much everything that you teach. I told them how I want to do it with the growth and income, aggressive growth. As long as he doesn't turn around six months later and go,

hey, man, I got this great deal on this variable universal life policy over here. I got a variable annuity I can put you in, which makes me four times as much commission. You know, I got this and that. And, you know, as long as you don't start hearing that stuff, then you'll be okay. But if you hear that, you're going to have to leave. Yeah, he recommended term, that was all. I'm sorry? He recommended term.

That was the only other kind of insurance he ever recommended me before. Good. I mean, it sounds like he's a good guy that's stuck in the wrong place. But you're just going to have to be on guard because he's running around in the middle of this disease-ridden place called a bank okay yeah and and the vast majority of people sell investments in banks are just they're just clueless it's like getting your transmission fixed in a muffler store i mean it's just a bad idea to buy investments in a bank most of the time but it sounds like you found a good guy so not a problem if you want to get another opinion just drop on jump on smart vestor and

find a smart vestor pro in your area sit down with them and you know if you still like your guy better it's fine go with that guy he's meeting all the guidelines of what we teach you know but you just have to be careful because he is going to be consistently influenced by his employer. It's just the nature of the beast. I mean, it's like, you know, anyway, that's what your problem is. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Terry is in San Francisco. Happy New Year, Terry.

Thank you. Same to you, Dave. How can I help? Well, I would like to know if I should pay off my rental or not. Okay. How much do you owe on it? I owe $134,000. And you have $134,000?

I do. Okay. How much do you owe on your home? On the home I live in, I 295 000 okay how much do you have that is non-retirement money uh total liquid non-retirement money 180 okay and a few bucks what's on what's illiquid that's non-retirement? Well, the equity in both of my homes. That's it. Okay. Yeah, I have about 280 and the one that I want to pay off.

But you're not calling like a stock investment illiquid or something like that? No, no, no, no. Okay. All right. Cool. Cool. And are you debt-free except for these two properties? I have been since I was 23.

I've never gotten into debt. Look at you. Look at you. I've been listening to you for about three weeks. Wow. Well, you found a kindred spirit. Yep. How old are you?

So I am inspired. I am 55. Awesomeness. What do you make a year? What's your household income? Well, it started last year, well, about 80, and now I just hit the 101,000 mark. Woo-hoo! You're having a great year.

I am. Do you have an emergency fund aside from the 180? No. That is including my emergency fund. That's all in. Okay. Yeah. So let's set an emergency fund aside of three to six months of expenses and pay the rental

off today. I'm with you. I like your plan. Okay. Fantastic. I'm doing it. I figured with my emergency fund, which would give me six months, I have just enough

to write that check. There you go. And then let's use all of that money and all the money you're making at this new increases in pay and let's go ahead and get the house paid off and it looks like you can probably do that in about four or five years probably. That'd be pretty cool. Well done. Well done. Well done.

Honored to have you as a new listener. Thanks for hanging out. This is The Dave budget each month. Pure Talk USA offers smarter wireless with unlimited plans starting as low as $20 per month. You never pay data overage fees and we never turn off your data. No contracts, no hidden fees. And if you're thinking our low cost means less coverage, think again. Our voice and data service covers 99% of Americans

and our 4G LTE network provides the fastest internet speeds like more expensive carriers. We operate on the largest GSM network in the U.S. to ensure you receive reliable coverage virtually anytime, anywhere. Plus, you can keep your same phone and number and add multiple lines to save more. We're so confident you'll love Pure Talk USA that we invite you to try our service risk-free. Visit puretalkusa.com or call 844-862-3677. Enter promo code SAVEDAVE and receive 50% off your first month. That's puretalkusa.com. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Jennifer is with us. Hey, Jennifer, Happy New Year.

Thank you, Dave. You too. Welcome, welcome. Where do you live? Spring Hill, Tennessee. Just down the street. Right around the corner. Right in the Nashville area. Very cool. Well, welcome.

And all the way up the road here to do your debt-free screen. Yes, sir. Love it. How much have you paid off? $84,000. Well, welcome. And all the way up the road here to do your debt-free screen. Yes, sir. Love it. How much have you paid off? $84,000. Good for you. And how long did that take you? Five months.

Good. Wow. And your household income? $150,000, $160,000. Wow. Cool. What do you do for a living? I'm a real estate agent.

You're doing great. Thank you. Well, it's a boom town that you're living in, so you're going to make some money. Good for you. Out there working and getting houses sold. Good job. So what kind of debt was the $84,000? It was a mixture, mostly. It was a home equity loan to pay off credit card debt, another credit card, a car for my daughter um and student loan debt okay cool yep cool so tell me your story what happened five months ago that got you fired up because i mean you've gone crazy here you went after it um well i for the first time ever i made goals for last year okay sat

down at the beginning of the year made goals uh, had a business partner, and we sat down with the goals and we made a plan. And then I got to work. We worked like it mattered. I had two jobs. And I just, as soon as I could, started paying it off. And my kids made sacrifices. I made sacrifices I didn't spend um and and we canceled a trip to florida the night before we were supposed to go to florida whoa um but we

were intentional and and we we acted like it mattered so that this year we could do it different love it live like no one else so later you can live like no one else. So what prompted you? You said, for the first time in my life, I sat down and set goals. What caused you to do that? My real estate broker. Okay. She requires us to do goals. Good for him.

Yeah. Good training. And so as you were doing your personal goals, you went, I'm going to do this debt thing. Yep. And how were you connected to us then? Well, 20 years ago when I was pregnant with my first child, I read Financial Peace. Okay. And I did the envelope system. And by the time my daughter was born, I had all my bills paid and enough money in my envelopes to survive for three months and not have to work.

And so that seed was planted 20 years ago okay and um and i just finally a little slow learner after 20 years i um decided that i was sick and tired and and things had to be different very good you know we see very often and in this time of year for those listeners out there it's something to think about that um when people start setting goals with their money it leads them to set goals on other things like it's not unusual to have somebody to have weight loss or start going back to church and have set some spiritual goals or something like that when they start working on their money they start working on other things with you it was the other way around you start working on business goals and you went wait a minute i need to get rid of this debt

yeah it kind of like he kind of let in backwards didn't it yep well whatever works yeah amen amen so you've done it you paid off eighty four thousand dollars you did this in five months yes sir did you did you sell? I sold 52 houses last year. Well, that'll do it. Okay. Wow. So, I mean, that, because you did this really fast, especially even with that income, because you barely made $84,000 in that five months, unless you made most of your income in the

back half of the year. No, no. You barely made $84,000 in that five months, unless you made most of your income in the back half of the year. No. No. In real estate, I made, in that period, $104,000 during that time. Oh, during the five months? Yes. Wow! Yeah.

And I still had the second job at that time. Well, you don't need that anymore. No. Don't have it anymore. That means you're going to be on pace for like $300,000 this year. If you keep doing real estate the way you've been doing it. We have lofty goals for this year as well. I'm proud of you.

Well done. Good job. Very well done. Good stuff. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? To get serious and to be the grown-up in the house. That says it all, doesn't it? It really does.

Very cool. So did you have people cheering you on? Did anybody know what you were doing? Sure. My fiance, he has been very supportive. And my business partner, she's an enormous support to me. And my kids, like, well, I'm not sure supportive is the word for it, but they got on board. Involved.

Yes. Love it. Well, well done, Jennifer. Congratulations. Thank you. Very, very proud of you. So you said you're a fiancé. When are you getting married?

We have not set a date. Okay. All right. Good for you. Well, well done. What a great life you got laid out in front of you. Thank you, sir. Things are good.

It's amazing what happens when you take control of these areas of our life. Yes. It really is. So what was the key with the goal setting that lifted you up so much? Because you made more money than you've ever made in your life. Yes. By far. What was the thing that did that?

What was the switch that flipped inside of you do you think um well like i was saying being sick and tired of it it's it's easy to say oh well this came up that came up and kind of be a victim instead of taking control of the situation and saying all right i'm doing this i don't care if this comes up. We're going to deal with that, and we're going to keep doing this and not fall back into old behavior. And people can change. Just because you've been a spender doesn't mean you have to continue to be a spender. I certainly don't have the spending habits I had a year ago.

Ever again, probably. Yeah. Well done. All right, Jennifer from Spring Hill, Tennessee, a suburb of Nashville here. habits i had a year ago ever again probably yeah yeah well well done all right jennifer from spring hill tennessee a suburb of nashville here eighty four thousand dollars paid off in five months we got a copy of chris hogan's retire inspired book for you we want that to be the next chapter in your story that you're a millionaire and outrageously generous along the way so we'll give you a copy of that signed by him right after you finish up here.

So $84,000 paid off in five months, making $150,000 to $160,000 on our way to a lot more. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Okay, three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Well done! Man, that is awesome right there. It's absolutely incredible.

You know, goals, we talked about that earlier in the week because we're starting off our New Year's shows on goal setting and how to set a goal properly. And goals that work must be specific. They must be measurable. Goals that work must be in writing. Goals that work must have a time limit, and goals that work need to be your goals. You have to own them. It has to be something that's real to you, and you're really going to do it. That's the kind

of goal that actually works. Otherwise, the goals don't work. They're just a dream. They're a wish. It's a resolution. It doesn't stick, but she set goals, and she did They're just a dream. They're a wish. It's a resolution. It doesn't stick. But she set goals, and she did it. You know, when you're setting goals with money on a monthly basis, you know what you call that? A budget. Woo! That sounds fun, doesn't it?

It really is fun. Because when you start doing a written budget, you feel like you've got to raise. And the reason you feel like you got a raise is money's going where you wanted it to go on purpose you're making your money behave the budget is the whip in the chair that tames the lion right you make them make them behave right make that make those dollars behave and that's what every dollar is for we spent several million dollars in a couple of years developing the world's best budgeting app. By far.

It's the most elegant, the most robust, the easiest to use. It's completely free. It takes about 10 minutes to set your budget up. Wow. Go to EveryDollar.com and start doing your goals. Just like Jennifer was doing. Do your goals, just like Jennifer was doing. Do your goals. Monthly goals create annual goals create lifetime goals.

That's all it is. You're just, you know, it's vision with work clothes on, baby. That's what a goal is. And you need your every dollar budget to do that. You can get your app. You can get the app for your iPhone or your Android in the proper store. Or you can just go to EveryDollar.com and you can use it on your desktop. It's completely free.

Every dollar. The world's best budgeting app. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for being with us, America. We're glad you're here. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Nicholas is in Detroit. Hey, Nicholas, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Nicholas is in Detroit. Hey, Nicholas, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Not much. So I started listening to you over, actually, like last spring. Paid off $17,000 in student loans. Look at you. And I know I've been going really hard, full-time job and a part-time job and selling stuff like crazy. Cool. What's your part-time job? Part-time is at the Lego store here in Michigan. Oh, cool.

It's a lot of fun. Good. So I'm going back to school. I just got married in October. And so I've been going really hard at this and just trying to get things off to a good start this year. Things slowed down when I got married in October. So I just wanted to call you and let you know my last debt is a leased car, which I leased two days before I started listening to you. Oh my goodness.

Go figure. So I have done some research on Kelly Blue Book. It says that my car is anywhere between $14,000 and $16,000, and I can buy it for $18,000 right now. But I'm also trying to go back to school. Classes start on Monday, and I need some money for that. So I just kind of want to know, like, what should my priority be? Should I try to get out of this car and use up the rest of my money I have in savings now that I have a wife? Or should I just kind of, like, ride out the lease and just get a cheap used car? I'm confused.

You said the car, when's the lease up? I'm sorry. The lease is up this December. It was a two-year lease. I got it last year. So you have one year left. Yep. Okay.

You have one year left on the car, and you said the car is worth $14,000 to $16,000. You can buy it for $18,000. Yeah. Oh, that's the early buyout on the lease. Yeah, I apologize. Yeah, the early buyout. Oh, I see.

Okay. I see. Yep. So let's play this out. What is your lease payment? The lease payment is $234 a month. Okay. All right.

So for $3,000, you can rent the car for the year? Yeah. And be done with it. Are you going over your miles? No. No, I'm pretty good on miles. How much do you have in savings? Let me see.

I've got about $16,000 in a money market account. No? Yeah, $16,000, and then $2,000 in a checking account. And this is your only debt. Everything else is paid. Yeah, yeah. We got rid of all the... I only had one credit card that had like $10 on it, and then the rest were student loans. And my wife didn't have any debt. Good. Okay. And your household income is what? It was about $35,000 before I got married.

So it's probably up to $45,000 to $50,000 now. Does she work? Yeah. Yeah. She has a full-time job. What does she make? A preschool teacher. So not much. It's probably like $30,000 high.

Probably less than $30,000. So your household income is now $70,000. Right? The two of you together? No, I think it's... I'm sorry. I'm making about $35,000. And she is too? And she's making probably like $20,000. As a teacher?

Yeah, yeah. She doesn't have her degree. It's just like a daycare. Okay, so you have a household income of the two of those together, which would be more like $55,000. Yeah, probably around $55,000. I haven't done the math exactly, but I'm estimating it's probably around $55,000. That's okay. I'm just trying to get an idea of where we are.

And how much is tuition? So I'm 23 years old, so I went to college at a private Christian school for three years. How much is tuition in the school you're getting ready to go back to? Well, for this first semester, it's like $1,000. Okay. But I have some credits that I'm going to be transferring to this community college, which is where I'm taking these classes, and then I'll be transferring to another university. Okay.

And so what does it take to finish your degree? I don't know. It's probably going to be around $16,000 to $17,000. Okay. And you're going to be able to do that over what period of time? Hopefully within the next two years. Okay. All right.

I would drive your car until the lease is up and then turn it in. Make sure you're not over your miles and i would go to school and pay cash and then uh make sure you've got some money saved by next december to buy a car with okay and uh you can do that easily with your income yeah now that you've learned how to live on a budget and control yourself and all that you need to go in and dig in and do your details now on not only what your income is so that you can do a budget accurately because you can't do an accurate budget because you can't tell me what you make.

You haven't combined your income yet, and you've been married four months, so it's time to do that. Okay? And you need to also dig in and get into great detail of exactly what it takes for you to finish this degree and what is your path between the community college and wherever you're going to finish up, all that kind of stuff. And once you know what classes are required to complete the degree, then you'll know what it's going to cost and exactly how long it's going to take and when the classes are offered. So let's map this out in great detail so that you're you execute your plan and you have a solid plan as if we were building a house we have a blueprint we have to build it according to the blueprint you need a blueprint for your money and you need a

blueprint for the continuation of the completion of your education and that way you don't accidentally miss something oh i forgot to put that wall up on that side of the house. You don't have that. You know, I forgot to take these four classes. Oh, my gosh. And now I've got this mess. And it's people that don't, you know, Stephen Covey used to say in the book, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People,

one of the habits of highly effective people is they begin with the end in mind. Begin with the end in mind. So you reach over to the end and say, these are the things I want to complete, and then you back out and you detail out exactly what the steps are to get there, and then you execute that. And when you live with that kind of intentionality, you become what people call successful. You know, when you call somebody successful, So-and-so is successful. They have a successful marriage. They're successful parents. They're successful at their football career.

They're going to the Super Bowl. They're successful at running their business. No one is accidentally successful. Great detail and great intentionality causes success. It doesn't accidentally happen. And so, you know, you're getting really close, and you've had some really good, successful things you did. Like you successfully got the student loan paid off, and you're handling money at 23 years old, way beyond your years. You're doing a great job. So now let's just play through the rest of this and get the budget detailed out for the marriage and get the education plan detailed out, and then you'll be successful at your money and you'll be successful in getting your degree in your chosen field.

Congratulations. Well done, sir. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Craig is on Facebook. Is it okay for my wife to borrow money to go back to school? Well, Craig, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. We tell people not to borrow money. You can do whatever you want.

Your wife can do whatever she wants. But I tell people not to borrow money. Now, why do I tell people not to borrow money? Because all of the data tells us, all of the millionaire data tells us, all of the people that win with money tell us that the shortest path to wealth is to stay out of debt, even for education. As we're doing all these millionaire studies that we're in the midst of doing, we discover that very few millionaires borrow money for their education.

A lot of them worked 50 hours a week while they were going through and getting their four-year degree. But they refused to borrow money. So, I mean, you can do what you want to do, but what's the goal? Is the goal to be normal, middle class? That's fine if that's your goal. I'm not going to be mad at you. We'll still be friends. But this show is about being successful with money, and the definition of being successful with money is building wealth. That is part of the definition of being successful with money, being generous. And there's some things that go along with that, right? But, you know, being broke is not being successful with money.

So being successful with money, by definition, is to have built wealth. And the shortest path is to avoid debt. And education is a good thing as long as it's something you're studying, something that there's an actual use for in the marketplace. But I'm going to pay cash for it. So, Craig, you can do whatever you want to do. Your wife can do whatever you want to do. Y'all are grown-ups.

But you ask me on my Facebook page, and 100% of the time you're going to get the answer. Don't borrow money. The borrower is slave to the lender. God didn't say except for student loans. It's not in Proverbs. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, it's Kelly Daniel, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, this hour of the show is over, but you can find our podcast on iTunes or Google Play.

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