The Ramsey Show - App - Get Up Off Your Butt and Live Your Life! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 9, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of The Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Marcus is in Boston. Hey, Marcus, how are you? Hey, Dave.

Appreciate you taking my call. Sure. What's up? Hey, so I'm going to make a long story as short as I can. So I have, I own my own insurance practice and financial practice a couple of years ago. Um, and basically it was costing me more money than what I was making. And I pumped all my savings and I even cleared out some Roths, um, to keep it afloat. Well, I eventually got out of that and, um, didn't realize the negative ledger that I had, the negative account that I had

would go into collections. Well, I started paying, then they started calling me on a biweekly basis. And then it became, you know, six, seven times a week. And I was making consistent payments of 30 to 50 bucks a month. But they've stopped calling me. And I just want to, you know, I don't want to just think this thing has gone away and that, you know, should I be worried about them drawing up a lawsuit against me? What is the debt for?

So I actually did the exact opposite of what you believe in regarding I sold whole life insurance, variable whole life and annuities. Oh, so this is commission chargebacks. Yeah, exactly. When you get paid at this point, you're not really getting it. I know. Yep. And so these are commission chargebacks.

So the company that you used to sell insurance for is going to sue you. No, so not yet. I'm just trying to find out. Well, but I'm saying, how much do you owe them in commission chargebacks? $1,500. So it's really not. Well, but I'm saying, how much do you owe them in commission chargebacks? $1,500. So it's really not. $1,500? Yeah.

What do you make now? Right now I make around, I'm on page for $75, but I'm also at another job. And you're also at another job in addition to the $75? No, no. So, yeah, I work a more than full-time job, and I'm on pace to make $75,000. Gotcha. But I got in such a hole with my practice that... Oh, no, but $1,500 solves this problem.

Right, yeah. Yeah, and you make $75,000. Yeah, I'm on pace for that, yeah. Well, what's on pace mean? You either make it, are you going to make it or not? Is it commission again, right? No, no, no, I'm in a totally different field now. I'm in logistics.

I do have a stable income, but it does vary on how much I, on whether how much I make. Okay, so what did you make last month, honey? So I pulled in $6,500. Okay, what will you make this month? I'm on pace for around, let's say, $62,000. Okay, why can't you just write him a check? I have, you know, I have another range of debts that are, frankly, far more, that have far more urgency than these people.

I mean, and from a liquidity, like I said, I got in such a hole. I got three behind on my mortgage. How much other debt have you got? Let's say about seven grand. Are you current on your home? I i am what's the seven grand owed owed to other credit cards and then um a couple medical bills okay so why are they more urgent than these people who are getting ready to sue you because this life insurance company's going to sue you dude i don't care if they got quiet or not. They're going to get their charge back.

I've never seen a life insurance company that didn't get a charge back commission back out of somebody's hide. They're coming for this. Medical bills might get around to it in two or three years, credit cards in three or four years, but these boys are coming. I don't care whether they're quiet or not. Right. So $8,500 cleans up your entire mess and there's a lot more than eighty five hundred dollars stress in your voice

i think it's because you got the crap knocked out of you oh i did i told i like yeah some of your some of your confidence and so this eighty five hundred bucks seven thousand of credit cards and medical bills, plus $1,500 of commission chargebacks feels like $85,000 in your emotions. Yeah, exactly, because here's the thing. I'm making good money subjective. I'm making pretty good money. You are.

And I am current, but from a liquidity standpoint, I have other investments that are illiquid. I'm not going to incur those fees. What I have readily available right now is $2,000. Other investments that are illiquid, like what? Well, I got a couple mutual funds, a couple Roths. You have mutual funds that are not in a retirement plan? So, well, so I have, I have,

um, do you have any non retirement investments? So they're all retirement investments right now. Um, I, I just opened up, like I said, I just opened up a new Roth.

I actually drained my old one. Um, and like I said, if I, if, roth i actually drained my old one um and like i said if i if if i have an emergency fund right now if something if my car broke down or something i have 2 000 available liquid um i you know i know you're going to tell me to pay this off 1500 um i just did yeah yeah but but what happens is you know as soon as you get rid of the money that you have something worse happens you know we want that as soon as you get rid of the money that you have, something worse happens. You know, we want that emergency fund. Dude, you are running so scared you're not even thinking clear.

Okay. $8,500 makes your whole stomach unwind, and it's in your throat. $8,000 lousy dollars. It's not $85,000, and you make $75,000. You need to sit down and do a written budget tonight are you married no okay um you need to sit down and do a written budget detail out exactly where every dollar of your money is going to go this month list your debts smallest debt to largest debt and begin to pay them off as soon as possible take 1 000 of the 2 000 and

apply to that liquidate all non-retirement investments i don't want to hear illiquid investments there's no such thing sell the stupid bitcoin sell the stupid whole life policy get out of it get your money out out. You need the money. Because, honey, if you didn't have this $8,500 worth of debt, you would have so much peace in your life, and you could put the rest of this crap in your rearview mirror. Yeah, I would get busy, too. You can make money. It sounds like you're a single guy. You've got some time. I would be freelancing in the logistics space. I would be, if I have to go drive, deliver, do landscaping, just to get yourself some

breathing room because you can knock this out really quickly. You just start calculating how many hours would I need to work at X amount of dollars to make an additional $8,500. Just start playing with this and start to see possibilities. I mean, you make $6,500 a month, you're a single guy. And so you put $2,000 a month on this, you're done in three months, four months. I think the budget probably takes care of this. Yeah, sit down and do a budget.

Sit down and lay out how you're going to do it. And so $2,000 a month, four months, you're done. That's it. And then you build up your savings, a good three to six months of expenses and um and you figured out that so yeah so folks um 85 of the people that start in the whole life business as life insurance salesmen are gone in one year that's what that is this is the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality is our co-host today thank you for joining us open phones at 888-825-5225 today's question comes from jonathan in massachusetts jonathan says without getting too

deep in the weeds about my background, I've always had what I would consider a menial job on a help desk, and I don't see that changing in the future. My concern is about the example I'm setting up for my five-year-old son. What can I do to ensure he succeeds at his chosen career when the time comes, and how do I encourage him so that he actually does something meaningful with his professional life? I will keep his mind open to trade school possibilities and won't dismiss anything. He simply has to do better than I have. Wow. Man, I wish I could give you a hug, Jonathan. I would say to those who feel like Jonathan feels, you can change your future. You can change your future professionally. But to the specific question,

this is kind of a parenting question on how do we set our kids up so that they can do something meaningful in their professional life. And I think it's a very simple formula that I teach, and it's in a simple sentence. If they use what they do best to do something they enjoy to produce a result that they care about, they're going to be very, very fulfilled. That is the recipe to meaningful work. That's in the book, Paycheck to Purpose. That is, that's right. The Paycheck to Purpose, we unveil seven stages that will get you there, a clear path to get you there, but that's the formula. So how do we do this with our kids? So early on, mom and dad, pay attention. Pay attention to the things that have come easy

to them. I mean, from the time they were toddlers all the way up through high school. What are the things that just have naturally come easy for them? Maybe their siblings struggle, but it comes easy for them. Help them see that. Help them pay attention to the compliments they get. Where are they getting compliments in their life? Okay, this is just basic awareness that you as parents instinctively are going to be able to see, but you help your kids see this. And what this does early on, before we ever start thinking about college and a major and a professional life, we start to pay attention to what they're good at. There's a high correlation, Dave, between the things that we're good at and the things that we actually enjoy doing.

And so you don't generally enjoy something you suck at. That's right. With the exception of golf. That was what I was going to say. And that's because of the company and the surroundings, right? And so we start there. Let's not overthink this. And so as they're younger and they're beginning to age into, well, high school,

and there's pressure to choose a college and then a major and a career path. Hopefully as parents, we've given them this foundation that early on they're paying attention to. This is what I'm good at and this is what I enjoy. And as they begin to experience more of life, let them test some things. Here's one thing I don't think parents do enough of in America. And I think it's when we get a kid who, let's say, says, I like working on machines. I'm good at fixing stuff. One of the things I would do is I would allow them to spend time with people in different walks of life that are in some ways fixing something, solving a problem mechanically or maybe with their minds and begin to let these kids shadow and see the real thing.

I think you'll see your kids' eyes light up. So we've made this thing too complex because what we do is we put pressure on these kids to choose a name brand school and get a degree that seems to make a lot of sense according to Kiplinger's and U.S. News & World Report. God help us. And we push kids into a career that they end up in their early 30s regretting that they did, and they can't use a degree. So that's the answer. Now, we actually have a student assessment. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. You can get it at ramsaysolutions.com. And it's actually made for students. We took the adult version, which has been a wild success.

Probably not going to work for a five-year-old. And we simplified it. Not a five-year-old. But as I'm talking to parents in general, this is a wonderful tool. If you've got a high schooler, get this assessment. The results will allow you and them to get on the same page and begin to talk practically through the advice I just gave. And I'm really proud of the tool because it actually works. Yeah, it does. It's an incredible tool. So what you're referring to is what the old Proverbs says in the Bible. In King James versions, I like the King James version on this. It says, train up a child in the way he is bent. The other versions say train up a child in the way he should go.

And when he's old, he'll not depart from it. But bent, meaning what is his natural love bent what is his what is his giftings and uh find that and then accentuate that and by the way a kid that likes to work on things doesn't necessarily mean that he or she is a mechanic that's right they could be a mechanical engineer if you see things spatially you could be an engineer and by the way engineers are the number one career category of millionaires correct so highest probability of being a millionaire so uh among our study anyway so yeah it's very very interesting i gotta circle back though

jonathan and tell you uh raising kids more's caught than taught and so if he doesn't see his dad going for it and stepping up and stepping out instead settles back in that easy chair at the menial desk job and i'm just what are you freaking eeyore get up man get up throw your shoulders back suck it up step out i don't care how old you are some really great careers careers start in people's 50s, 60s, and 70s. Colonel Sanders never fried chicken publicly until he was 72. Wow. Leonardo da Vinci painted the Sistine Chapel laying on his back. It's the ceiling, by the way, boys and girls, at 78 years old.

It ain't over as long as you're sucking wind so stand up throw your shoulders back suck it up and go do something buddy your five-year-old needs to see you do that that's right that's what he needs to see you do this i'm stuck it's always gonna be this way oh crap man get up that's silly't do that. Don't do that with your life. Your life is too precious for you to do this. Ken wants to give you a hug. I'm kicking you in the butt. That feels about right.

I'm going to be Coach Ramsey right here, man. It's halftime. Get your butt up. You're behind. You need to catch up. Get it. Get out there, man. That's what your son needs to see he needs to see his dad do that even if his dad falls flat on his face at least he's running

at least your hand you know you get your hands scratched when you fall hit the pavement you know you get your nose bloodied when you fall and hit the pay shut up get up and do it again man this is how this is how live your life this is a life this email screams of quiet desperation yeah it's true come on man your kid needs to see that more is caught than taught they're not they're not gonna they're not gonna excel if they've never seen any adults excel. If all the adults in their life settle, please expect them to settle. Please expect them to do that. If the adults in their life esteem academics, expect them to esteem academics. If the adults in their life fill in the blank, expect them to fill in that blank.

Whatever it is, okay, hello. It's what these kiddos are. Now, some of them will revolt directly against it, but at least they got something to bounce off of. So get it. Get it. Get it done. I had a friend who was a real estate agent, a friend of my dad's.

I used to do deals with him, and he worked all the time. He just passed away. He worked all the time. He had two kids. One of them said, I'm going to be a teacher. I'm never getting a real estate business. My dad worked all the time. You know what the other one does?

Real estate. Real estate business. That's right. Yeah, that's right. At least you got something to bounce off of, man. That's true. I think that's absolutely right. By the way, he, in all reality, he's a very affordable tech certification program away

from potentially doubling his salary. Oh, God. Because he's got a background in tech. You say that? So he's not stuck. Yeah, he's at a support desk, a help desk. Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's tech, does it? I'm assuming help desk means tech, but.

Oh, I don't know. If it's tech, it's even worse. Yeah, you're right. Get it. I've never heard that phrase used for anything else, but I could be wrong. That's because you always need help with tech. It's funny. I actually did email our tech team today.

We have one guy. His full-time job is to fix the tech I break. I'm in the same category. Just an entire, all the phones and computers that I walk near, they all just blow up. Like, so, yeah. We got our own little help desk thing going here i don't know what kind of help desk you're on man but go do something yeah don't sell yourself don't settle get back to your life man go have fun go have fun open phones at 888-825-5225 you You jump in. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host.

Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Sarah is in Minneapolis. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm good. I'm so excited to talk to you guys, and I'm a little bit scared, but thank you for taking my call. It's okay. We've never lost a patient. You'll be okay. I will get to the explanation as quickly as I can and then get to my question if that's okay. Sure. My husband is in commercial construction. He's a field superintendent and it's a family owned company.

His grandpa started it and now his dad and two uncles own it along with one other non-family CFO. We moved to Minnesota about six years ago so that my husband could work for the company and eventually take over ownership with his two brothers. My husband and his two brothers are the only family members that are interested in being owners, but the current owners also would like to bring in a number of non-family owners as well. The succession plan has been extremely difficult to plan for. The owners have been not willing to communicate details, so we don't know how to plan for things.

And two of them are set to retire at the end of this year with the other two that are going to be hanging around for another 10 to 15 more years. And so with all of that, there's just been some like character information that has come out about like the owners. And my husband has just been questioning whether or not he actually wants to take part in the ownership anymore so we just started dreaming about moving back to South Dakota where we met and him starting his own handyman business out there and I train horses seasonally

as well right now my husband brings home about 90,000 a year and I'm about $25,000 between May and September. So monthly our consistent income is about $7,200. We have two kids that I homeschool. Our mortgage is about $3,000 a month. We have no car loans. We do owe $450 on our farm. What city in South Dakota? Rapid. Rapid City. Okay. So it's a large enough market that he can build an actual handyman business and probably make more than he's making now that's the hope but no it's not i mean it's not a hope he can do it if he i don't know if he will or not but i mean i we're working with handyman they're making two 250 awesome yeah it's a huge business because nobody knows out which end of a screwdriver is anymore our culture is as as tool illiterate and so anything that breaks they got to call

somebody ken coleman yeah that's that's true he can do anything and so i know i'm serious if he will show up on time and do what he said he was going to do he can charge whatever he wants and he'll have a line around the block okay what's keeping you from why don house and on top of that what's the house worth because he's so handy um right now the house is worth 750 so why can't you sell it um because when we by the time we would clear our debt, um, we would have about 150,000 left over and then to buy a farm. Why do you have to buy a farm? Because that's my job.

I train horses and that's kind of. You have a farm now? Yes. How many acres do you have now in Minneapolis? Minneapolis, we only have 10. It's the only place to train horses is your personal farm? Yeah. I mean, South Dakota is like one thing they got is land.

I don't know. Oh, yeah. It's very expensive, though, and so that's our hang-up is we don't know if we can afford it. Cedar Rapids is expensive no south dakota i'm sorry rapid city rapid city is expensive same same same same voice tone no it's not okay rapid city south dakota is not expensive i'm sorry'm sorry. You're not trying to buy 10 acres in New York. You're not. It's freaking South Dakota.

The houses that we would need, the cheapest that we are finding with a house on 10 acres of land is going for about $500,000. And I don't know if we can do that. So don't buy 10 acres of land. Go lease 10 acres of land go lease 10 acres of land do your little horse business until you get the horse business big enough that it justifies a 500 000 investment which is probably never yeah i'm i'm with dave here sarah let me throw an idea at you why don't you sell and move up there maybe rent for a couple of years get your feet on the ground as in get his handyman business got horses what the potential is for you you're making way less than him and we've already established that he should

be waking making way more than he's making now once he gets there on the ground i would ease into this i don't think you have to go from where we are now to a 10 acre farm so i can do my horse business i think you've created there's no. There's no way that the sorrow was. Yeah. I'd ease into it. You buy 10 acres because you can afford it, and then you do horses. You don't buy 10 acres to do horses and make 25K. That's a bad business model.

Okay. You don't make enough to justify the expense. Correct. Yeah. So you need to lease that land or you buy the land because i want the land oh and then i'll do some horses for fun and then i can do 25k on horses all right but um yeah i you we're not staying in minneapolis in this toxic situation with this sort of kind of family business debacle uh that he is not going to stay in because you need 10 acres let's just know sell it and go to south dakota and let him get his

handyman business going you go rent a farm to do your horse business on and then later on when you guys make a bunch of money buy you a farm and you can do your thing. And, you know, it's a five-year plan to get to that. Okay. But you guys, you can't, what you've described in Minneapolis is not sustainable. You gave us all reasons to leave and they were all good reasons. And then you took Cedar Rapids and made it unattainable. Or Rapid City. I can't say it.

I keep going. I keep going the wrong state. The Rapids. Sorry, South Dakota. I actually do know where you are but yeah oh my gosh there's some people in the lobby from south dakota and davis geographically challenged but yeah i also don't understand why you need 10 acres uh that seems like a lot for training horses it depends on i don't know i mean i'm not a horse trainer but if you're going to graze them, I mean, you're going to pasture them and so forth, you might. Oh, I see. I was thinking the training part.

I've never played one on TV, Dave, so I'm over my skis. Yeah, definitely. Me too, but I'm not over my skis to say you don't spend $500,000 to do a $25,000 business. That's correct. That's an easy one. That's a no. We don't do that period um you

know if you want to buy a half million dollar house and can afford a half million dollar house it's on 10 acres great do that oh and then i want to do some horse stuff on there cool that's fine but we don't buy a five hundred thousand dollar piece of property to do twenty five thousand dollars a year that does not make sense that's not not make sense. That's a non-starter right there. All right, there we go. Move, Sarah, move. Load up the truck and head to Beverly. That's what we're doing.

Bring Uncle Jed and Granny and let's go. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Family businesses that do succession poorly, they bring pain onto themselves. All they had to do was treat this guy right, and he and his brothers would have taken the thing over, and it would have gone another generation. Instead, they're putzing around and they're going to lose their talent, which is in their family, to be able to carry this thing generationally. I was going to ask you, does it make sense with what little information you have

that they would bring in an outsider for ownership when it was supposed to be a family thing? No, all this is somebody trying to get some money. Okay. One of the uncles wants some money. Oh, I see. He's trying to get some cash, and none of the boys got any cash. He's trying to bring in an outsider with some pockets. Oh, that makes sense. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us, America. Daniel is in Los Angeles. Hi, Daniel. Welcome to The Ramsey Show is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Daniel is in Los Angeles. Hi, Daniel. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave. We have some home fears, home buying fears, actually. Okay. All right.

So I want to start with our numbers. Me and my wife's combined income, which is all self-employed 1099, is $243,000. The house we want to get is a $477,000 place. So we can only qualify for bank statement loans. And that lender gave us an average of 12 months of deposits of $9,500 a month, which puts our house payment at 29% of our take-home, which is not Dave approved. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. How long have you had your 1099 business? 10 years. 10 years. Okay. Well, you've got a dumb butt lender. You qualify for a standard mortgage. If you've got two years of tax returns, proving this business value, you qualify for a standard

mortgage. You don't need to get ripped off on a mortgage. Okay. So call Churchill mortgage and talk to those guys. They'll help you get it done. Cause he's, he's hammering you on the rate, isn't he? Yeah, it's between 6.9 and 7.7. Yeah.

Why is it between? Because if I down payment more, it'll come down. Oh, yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, you need a new mortgage lender. Got it. Great. good news. The last little bit here is every other,

I've done about 10 trying to get qualified for a loan, 10 times, and only forgotten the bank statement loans once or twice. Because the FHAs and the conventionals or whatnot, I can't seem to qualify for ever. Why? Is your credit bad? No, we have great credit. We just have a lot of write-offs and lifestyle.

Okay, so you have a taxable income on your tax return of $250,000 or not? No, no, not a personal income of $250,000. Well, isn't that what you told me you make? Yes, combined business income. Gross revs or net profit? Gross. Oh, well, crap. You could be losing money then.

What is your net profit? What's your taxable income? Our personal taxable income? sir that's that's all you got your business is personal you're filing into you're filing a schedule c aren't you or you got it in an llc uh we have s corps and general partnerships okay and all of that flows through directly to your tax return when you pay pay taxes, all of your businesses, the net profits land on your personal tax return. What is your income, sir, that you pay taxes on? It's about $25,000.

$25,000 a year? Yeah. Then you're not making any money. You're starving to death. In business, there are only one kind of write-off. You can only write off actual cash expenditures, which creates net profit, and you can depreciate items. And the depreciation has something to do with reality called loss of value in the item.

So if you buy a $10,000 item and it's worth spit two years from now, you can depreciate that item because it's depreciated. But you lost the money. That's why you can depreciate it. I buy a computer, I can write off the computer and depreciate it either one year or three years, depending on where it falls in the tax code. But I lost the money still. It's still a loss. So if you're really only making $25,000,

I don't know how the heck you can afford a house in Los Angeles. Yeah, correct. We're moving out of state to Las Vegas instead. Well, you can't afford a house in Las Vegas making $25,000. Yeah, Seth. Absolutely correct. I have no idea what I'm doing.

Alright, open phones at 888-825- 5225. Jonathan is in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Jonathan, how are you? Hey, I'm good. Jonathan is in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Jonathan, how are you? Hey, I'm good. Thanks for taking my call today. How can I help?

So got myself in a financial pickle. So forgive me for that. But to my wife, is it epileptic? Excuse me. And she's no longer going to be able to work full-time um so she's going pr at work she's a nurse so we're going to take about a 60 to 70 000 hit in our income what do you make and i was i make a roughly 36 000 i'm a commission-based salesman. And what does she make? She was making roughly $75,000 a year going part-time. How often is she having seizures?

She gets three years seizure-free, but the auras are causing her not to be able to fully be a nurse. So it's very dangerous. Yes, I agree. So she's having to back off. Well, that's the bad news. The great news is she's a nurse. So she could do non-nursing, non-actual care, but use that knowledge base and make really good money, maybe from home.

Yeah. Ken, there's a lot of stuff she could do, isn't there? Yeah, I think there's a lot of stuff she could do isn't there yeah i think there's a lot of pivoting there she's got some transferable skills uh have you guys looked into that or is this just i mean i don't want her she does for her sake i don't want her on the floor right going bed to bed to bed in a hospital right that that would not be cool for her right much less the potential risk to a patient or something. So I completely agree with the fact you need to pivot, but I don't think it goes to zero. No, it's not going to go to zero forever. We know that part.

My concern is the next three to six months as we pivot or transition. Has she already quit? Yes, that already took place. Okay, cool. months as we pivot or transition. Has she already quit? Yes. Okay. That already took place. Okay, cool. So now we've just got to figure out a different way to apply her skills, and it shouldn't take three to six months.

It ought to take three to six days. I am open to suggestions even on that. Okay. I'm trying to find online. Because the nature of your call is we're struggling financially because we just lost, dadgum, 60%, 70% of our income. Yes. And you're scared to death for your wife's health

because that brings tears to your eyes. It brings tears to my eyes, too. You're a good man. Yes. You love your wife. You're a good guy. Yes, sir. So we'll help you with the, you know.

But if we fix the income thing don't we fix a whole lot of the other stuff yeah because then i can fully get onto the debt snowball and get ourselves out of the pickle that we're in have you sat down the two of you and looked at what her options are doesn't feel like you guys have sat down and talked about it for instance telenursing is that an option i't know, but that's where my brain goes. So it is an option, and it is not an option that we have found readily available

as I started applying for her ahead of time, knowing this was coming ahead. And we've not had a lot of success with that. And so her auras and her seizures were all stress-induced. And her neurologist even warned her she may have to give up nursing and go on disability. We have fought for two and a half years now to avoid that because she would rather work than not work.

Let me throw another high-level idea out because I think you guys are a little bit panicked, and it's hard to think clearly when you're panicked. But you've got to start looking at real options. So it becomes less scary. The unknown is freaking you out. I would be looking at other caregiving jobs. I've, I've coached a lot of nurses who have been burned out and, and it is one of the top industries as it relates to burnout and transition right now in this country. It's a massive problem. So I will tell you that one of the things I coach nurses on is caregiving. And when I've asked them, what is it the core of nursing that you love? They always

come back with, I just love caring for people. So I would start to look in the Columbus, Ohio, greater area and go, what are the jobs out there where it is about caring for people? Okay. And then where are my limitations knowing what we know medically? I just think there's more options for her to step right into something right now. Because let me tell you something. There are holes everywhere in the world of caring for people. They need people. I would start there. Yeah. I think you work on the income side of this equation, Jonathan, and keep doing that. And I'll tell you what, I'm going to send you a copy of Ken's book, Paycheck to Purpose, and also Proximity Principle, two of them. That'll help you get that. And I'll tell you what, I'm going to send you a copy of Ken's book, Paycheck to Purpose,

and also Proximity Principle, two of them. That'll help you get started. And I think you guys just need to start brainstorming tonight, clearly thinking about where she could apply these skills in a non-traditional way that's low-stress environment. This is The Ramsey Show. show.