The Ramsey Show - App - Get Your Spouse on Board With the “Why”, Not the “What” (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 30, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book, Paycheck, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best selling author of the book, Paycheck to Purpose is my co-host today. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money at 888-825-5225. Jaya is with us in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Jaya, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Well, thank you so much for taking my call. So the short summary of it is that I grew up with not a lot of money. Money was really tight. And now that I'm an adult, I'm making more. I'm able to save for retirement. I'm meeting a lot of savings goals. And I feel responsible to pay that back to my parents and specifically my mom. She has very little in savings and she's approaching her 60s. I think she's going to work through retirement, but if anything comes up with her, like medically or anything, she's not going to have any sort of fund to help support her in that. So I feel kind of responsible for that so i'm wondering what your opinion is on that well um my opinion is is that you're not responsible but you're allowed to have that

feeling um it means you're a sweet person, it means you love your mom, but morally, ethically, legally, you're not responsible. My children aren't responsible to take care of me. I'm responsible to take care of me. I'm 63. It's my job to pay my bills. And I don't want my children, I don't want to be a burden to my kids okay so where so if i did want to if you want to help and all the goodness of your heart that's different than being responsible yeah um so where would that fall in the baby steps because right now i'm saving up my emergency fund by the end of the year i'll have enough and you know, I'm still in my

twenties, I'm going to be saving up for a house payment, eventually a new car, all that kind of stuff. So I'm still kind of working my way through building my own life. So what's the amount of money that you think you need to contribute to help her that you want to contribute? What's that number? So I was kind of looking at it over the next 10 years or so, if I save like a hundred dollars every paycheck or so, save it in like a high yield savings account. I was looking at about 20 grand by the time she's like older age. And if she needs the money, it's there as a cushion. So that's how many years from now? Like 10 to 15 years from now, just as a backup. So you don't need to do a thing except walk the baby steps, okay?

Because that'll cause you to build wealth, and you'll have an extra $20,000. You can just reach into one of your accounts and pull it out. The way you get ready to help someone else is you build wealth. Okay. You don't have to have a else is you build wealth. Okay. You don't have to have a mom fund on the side. You just go become wealthy. And the shortest way to do that is walk the baby steps. So you're how old today?

I am 28. 28. Okay. And what was it you said you do for a living? I work in tech. Okay. And what do you make? Make about $100,000.

Good for you. Well done. Okay. Be a great high-tech 28-year-old, and therefore I want you to be a millionaire when you're 38. Okay. So that just means you're going to manage all the way through these baby steps clearly and carefully and in detail the way we teach you. We'll help you do that. That's what we do.

And then when you're sitting on that, if you want to take $20,000 of your million and help your mom, well, that's a very nice thing to do. That is different than I am responsible for my mother and I am a horrible person if i don't write her a check because she was good to me when times were tough when you're good to your kids when times are tough because that's what parents do it's not because we expect a payback okay so i do feel like a sense of responsibility um i do get some messaging from her of her like kids are expensive and she wishes her life like she didn't have kids that's her problem stuff like that you didn't cause any of this okay you didn't choose to be born she chose for you to be born that's on her so you don't get she don't get to play that card i'm sorry her whining does not transform you to enter to ethically become responsible for her follow me yes i do does that sound does that sound

mean see the difference here is just love okay even when you're acting in the goodness of your heart with an open hand out of love, that's true ministry. That's true charity. When someone's guilt tripping you and they're a travel agent for guilt trips and they make you think you have a moral or ethical responsibility that you don't have because they somehow feel entitled or they have assumed the position of victim, that's way different than generosity. And I want you in the generous camp, not the obligated to something you're not obligated to camp, but go make you a whole bunch of money, and then you can decide what you want to be. Yeah, I really like that advice, like kind of just follow the baby steps, build my own wealth, and then eventually pull from that instead of doing something separate for her yeah i mean i think that's really good advice if i live in a i live in a community and i know there's a child on the other side of the community that's hungry

it's a wonderful thing for me to help them it's a wonderful thing for me to as a person who's built some wealth to feel a sense of responsibility to make sure that child gets some food. Okay, but that is still an act of generosity, an act of charity versus the government coming along, pointing a gun at my face and says, we're going to raise your taxes so we can take $100 from you in order to spend $100 of your money to buy $10 worth of food because we're the government and we're idiots. That's what taxes are. that's far from charity it's inefficient generosity that where you stole someone else's money to do good with it and it's a whole different mindset it's a whole different thing one's compulsion and one is volunteer and your character is built when you're volunteering your character is not built

when you're doing something as an act of compulsion you are becoming a better person when you are generous not out of compulsion but out of capacity yeah jay here's what happens the weird irony here here is is if you receive that responsibility from your mom i don't think she's healthy and i don't think she's trying to manipulate you but it comes across that way way. And if you receive that responsibility from her, what's going to happen is you're going to end up resenting her. And so the heart that you have as a daughter is, I want to be in a position to help mom if she needs it. And Dave has given you, and you've received it. You totally got it, which is awesome. But the alternative here is you start to resent the very person you want to help

and you don't want that i'll tell you the other thing that goes in this whole discussion that with our christians and christian brothers and sisters out there some of them are over saved and they get confused about honor your father and mother honor your father and mother does not mean you're going to give them money ridiculous regardless of their ridiculous behavior that is not honoring if your dad's doing cocaine you don't honor him by giving him the money for it. That's not honoring. You don't honor someone by helping them with their misbehavior. That's not honoring.

We honor the position of mom. We honor the position of father, not of every stinking behavior that the human being engages in. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Open phone's a 888-825-5225. Hey, your brand new book, Find the Work You Love, the Get get clear assessment find the work you're wired to do is uh coming out in may early may and we've got it on pre-sale right now it comes with the get clear assessment which just under a hundred thousand folks have already taken at ramsey

solutions.com and gone to the store and taken it and the assessment, the book is how to read your assessment results, and it comes with a code for you to take the assessment, right? It's absolutely right. So the assessment is really a self-awareness test to let you see, this is what I do really well. We're talking about the world of work. This is what I enjoy doing. And then this is what motivates me. And if you put those three together, and we do it for you with very detailed results in a purpose statement that you can think of as essentially the ultimate job description for yourself. And then the book meets you there and says, all right, how do I go about getting there? Now that I know who I am and what I want to do, how do I get there?

So it's a great companion. Great graduation gift, by the way. We have over 52%, just shy over 52 percent of college grads, Dave, are not working in the field that they studied. And so this is a great graduation gift as we see a lot of kids moving from college into the real world. And we have high schoolers that have taken it as well. And again, a great awareness tool as they begin to think about what their future direction looks like. And I know for many parents, that's the biggest weight they feel at this age and stage of parenting. Is my kid going to make it and find their way? And that's true if you're 52. Well, that's true too. Knowing what

you're wired to do, it sets you free. Yeah, it does. And it gives you, it raises your energy level to go do it. Yeah. And your income potential. Yep. You you know so it's a fun little tool and now the book comes along and it's like me coaching people with the results so they can choose their professional direction now so if you this is your last week to pre-order because it comes out next week the get clear assessment find the work you're wired to do when you pre-order it we're also going to give you the audio book and the e-book and each one of those come with a code for an assessment so you're going to have a total of three codes for the assessment so you'll be able to give one to a spouse or to a friend or maybe you've got

two kids i don't know whatever it is and it's a great way for you to get the access to this material and get all the coaching direct from ken and so people are buying it like crazy as grad gifts but they're also buying it just because they want to know you know i'm on this stinking planet why'd you put me here lord what are we doing ramsey solutions.com slash store and you can get all of those items if you order it this week so be sure and do that caleb is with us caleb's in harrisburg pennsylvania hi caleb how are you hey dave if i was a dog i'd be wagging my tail thank you so much for having me on here you're welcome how can we help yeah so i'm calling in i was introduced uh to you by uh by my manager

uh who's mentoring me and really got excited. I mean, I dove head fast and tore through the total money makeover, got super excited to pay off our debt. And I'm married as well. And when I started bringing this to my wife, kind of hard moving through some of these conversations. Did you turn my name into a cuss word in your house? I'm doing my best not to.

Doing my best not to. So I'm looking at the book right now where she set it down. So she has been, you know, kind of perusing through it. And my biggest thing is I just want to, you know, it's been about a month and a half since I finished the book. And I know I can't do this by myself. You know, we're a team and we have to both be fully on board. But I don't want to keep waiting to be making right decisions. So I've done things like I have the Every Dollar app

and I've been trying to budget. But without it really being like a two-person effort on this, I just want to know like the, dare I say, the baby steps to try to get to the actual baby steps. Where is she challenged the most? Where's the greatest objection? Because that's a good place to start. What do you see? What are you hearing? Yeah, so we've had some conversations. One thing is, gosh, my excitement for it.

When I get excited about something, I get very passionate i can uh get kind of overwhelming i do know that about myself okay that's a good one so you did turn my name into a cuss word okay she's already sick of dave ramsey okay all right you don't you got you got some on your shoe man i'm just saying okay so um and then yeah when i when i get excited and excited and I want to talk about these things such as like, hey, let's just stop using credit cards. And, hey, let's sit down and actually do a budget every single, you know, talk about this every week so we can stay on top of this. And I'm trying to like bring in the things that. Yeah, are you 27 you know the reasons i'm 26 ah okay almost like i've done this before almost okay how long y'all been married five years

or six uh three coming up on three here okay good good all right because this is the same exact stuff i used to do so it's easy for me all right so here's what i learned the hard way because i'm wired just like you i'm way super excitable i get fired up about stuff i go down a rabbit hole and you can't even find me i got lost down there and so um game on you know pedal to the metal let's do it what are we waiting on i mean why why can't you get why can't you figure this out it's smart i figured it out let's go and uh none of that of course works so uh and that's what you're finding so what i want you to do is stop talking about what to do we need to do a budget that's a what to do we need to cut up the credit cards and stop using them that's a what to

do what i want you to talk about is why why is it you want to do this so that we can build some wealth and have some peace and be on the same team as a married couple and if the number one cause of divorce and and arguments in marriage is about money if we could get rid of the number one problem in marriage it It has to make our marriage better. That's why I want to do this. I want to do this so we can become wealthy and go on a vacation anywhere we want to go, anytime we want to go. I want to become wealthy so we can be outrageously generous when we see a need in the marketplace, a ministry that we can support or start.

I want us to be wealthy so that our kids can go to school and have no student loan debt i want to talk about why and get her involved in why you got excited you nobody gets excited about doing a budget the only reason we do a budget is because it's the shortest path to get there the only reason we stop using the credit cards is it's the shortest path to get there but nobody enjoys the exercise well a few of you sick people do we just enjoy being a little bit thinner okay i'm one of those sick people that enjoys the exercise but you see what i'm talking about but i mean the you see the idea being you need to sit down with her and quit uh show talking to her about what we've got to do and and say and ask

her what would what would be her favorite thing about being wealthy and what what what would we have to do to get there then and and how's it going to feel when we live in a paid for house and have no bills anywhere that's what i get excited about honey and and then you got a reason for you being excited rather than just you know slapping her upside the head with a book yeah and that's what i've been really trying not to do you did though yeah you did Yeah. You did. I did. Yeah. You completely did. And you probably start this conversation with an apology for doing that. Mm-hmm. That's okay.

And I'm going to add, just because you gave us a hint, this is a pattern for you. And she thinks this might be the next new shiny thing. And she thinks it's another fad. If she thinks it's quiet long enough, you're going to get over it. Yeah, but I think you've got to show her the facts and go, this is a lifestyle, and Dave gave you a master class on how to get buy-in. I don't think she's resistant as much as she's just kind of like, whoa, take it easy, man.

I can't breathe. Down, boy, down. Down, boy, down. Like a freaking Labrador retriever. Love them. They're just awesome. They're boy. Down. Yeah. Like a freaking Labrador retriever. Yeah. It's just like, love them. They're just awesome.

They're enthusiastic. Wow. Fun. It's fun. Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. Guys, our rankings on all the podcasts and YouTube platforms and even in talk radio are through the roof. Thank you to all of

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of mouth is everything and i think about how many times you read a book or watch a movie because some of your friends told you and uh that's what that's what drives us forward for sure so thank you guys for doing that and continuing to do that albert is with us in Washington, D.C. Hey, Albert, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you, Dave. Pleasure to talk to you and pleasure to talk to you, Mr. Coleman. My question is, is job hopping going to bite me in the butt? The reason why I ask is because over the last five years,

I've pretty much had five jobs. That first one I did have for five years, but ever since then it's been four jobs in a row of only about a year's worth of time. The money has increased substantially, but I'm just worried this is going to come back and get me. Yeah, so are you chasing jobs for just money each time because of opportunity? And we saw that during the great resignation. So the environment was right for that over the last two years that's changed so my question is were you hopping just for the increase

or are you hopping trying to find that thing find the right environment it's it all of these jobs have all been in the same industry okay in public utilities and it's just gone the increase in pay has come along with an increase in responsibility, learning new things involved in the trade, and so it's just gone from being a meter reader, you know, reading water meters, to doing water treatment and wastewater treatment, then county utility management, and just on up. Interesting.

So five different organizations, or were there any moves within one organization? There's a couple moves within one or two organizations. Within that year, I might have moved up from one position to another. So how many times did that happen? That's relevant to the answer to your question. How many times did you move up within an actual organization of the five jobs? Of the five, that happened twice. Okay, so first of all, that's not job hopping, so we can take two out of the five. happened twice okay so first of all that's not job hopping so we can

take two out of that's a promotion yeah that that looks good you know that shows somebody that you earned it or that you were perceived as valuable enough to earn it so the other three are the ones that you start looking at and if a narrative can develop it will so on the surface uh yeah three jobs in three years uh you know we we need, we need a narrative and an explanation for that. Now, let's say that one of the three, you were recruited. Did that happen? Did somebody come after you, or were you actively looking in all three of those? Three of the job changes were for moves.

The other two were from linkedin and they were recruiting me and that's what that's why i'm asking i've got a job opportunity coming up right now which would uh be another move after i've been in my current place for 14 months and it was somebody was recruiting me from linkedin it's effectively going to be about the same uh title but about a 40% pay increase. All right, so let's look at the long term, because short term sounds great. Is long term, does this set you up with a really good path forward, or is it just more money? You know what?

It's probably just more money. I think my current position has a path forward as far as moving up, and then so does this job. Okay, so here's the deal. If both of them allow you to move up the ladder you want to climb, then it's a no-brainer. And this is not flaky. When someone is recruiting you, that's a very different story than you just being with somebody for a year and going, I'm tired of this place, and I'm looking for the next place. If someone's coming after you, that's the nature of the corporate world,

and that's not flaky. That makes you look very valuable. Okay. Well, that sounds great. I like the way you put it. But that has to be true, obviously. And in that situation... If the hiring manager perceives that the first time someone comes along on LinkedIn and offers you more money, you're going to leave, that's the day you're not hireable anymore. That's my, yeah, that's my worry. Yeah. If you turn into a mercenary, if they, if they perceive you as a mercenary, you're going to go to the highest bidder, then they don't want to screw with having onboard you. And then you turn around and head back out in eight months just because somebody else hits you on LinkedIn. So, you know, it's,

you know, that, and I don't know how you keep that from happening with what you're describing. So, I think you've got valid explanations, but if the hiring manager perceives that you're going to go to the highest bidder as soon as the next LinkedIn connection happens, then you're done. They're not going to hire you. Yeah, to that point, in this current situation, have you been in the interview process? Yes. And they know your history? Yes. Were there any flags? Did they ask you about it? We did have a discussion about it, and in fact, I may have just made sure that they understood that at my current position in this management role, I only had a year,

and they said, that's fine. You have effectively 10 years in this industry, and that knowledge is valuable to us. So they were fine with that. That was to develop expertise. That's not stability. That's right. So that says to me that you have expertise That was to develop expertise. That's not stability. That's right. That says to me that you have expertise in the industry. I don't care where you were. I've only been there a year, but it doesn't matter. You've been in the business, so you know the business. That's what that's saying.

That doesn't say you're going to stay. Here's the real answer, Albert. This is a 50-50 deal, Dave, because in today's labor market, we are still at 3.8% unemployment, and a lot of companies are desperate. I don't think we would go about it that way. I'll guarantee you we wouldn't hire it. I know. And I think this is one of those 50-50 deals, and I think what I would say is I want you always making moves

that are moving me forward on the 15- to 20-year play. Yeah. And in that case, it's a calculated risk. But I think this has some risk, and you have to weigh that. It's a good discussion but i think this has some risk and you have to weigh that yeah it's a good discussion albert and here's the good news it you're the kind of person that asks the question and is worried about it yeah which makes you the kind of person that can survive this narrative and so they may hire you they may hire you in that situation but in general for folks out there when you jump albert's right

to ask the question because when you jump to jump to jump as an employer uh if i think you're going to go right back out the door as soon as i get you onboarded just because somebody hit you up on linkedin like i did like our recruiting team hit you on linkedin you came over here and then the next thing that comes along you're going to come along then i don't need to i don't need to fool with all that. I'd rather just, I want to hire people that are going to stay. That's right. At least, hopefully. It's a blinking yellow light on paper, and then you're going to have to win the conversation and show that you actually are a loyal person, and you just had a string of, you know, some opportunities. This is pretty abnormal. You know, I get this question on our

entree leadership podcast i do a podcast once a week for small business people and i get this question all the time and one of the things that ramsey fell into and this is really it's a side from albert it's not an answer or a directed at albert at all um was that we also used our recruiters we use linkedin we'll reach out and try to hire someone when we are doing that we've had to learn to be very careful to not attract someone who goes yeah it's like walking i told one of our recruiters it's like walking down the street and going up and knocking on someone's door that does not have a for sale sign and go hey would you sell your house that's right they go well yeah for the right dead gun price i would and because everybody's heard the story about somebody who paid too much for a house

and the guy just sold it yeah okay i'll take that and you said yeah i sold my house why'd you sell your house got knocked on door give me a ridiculous number well it's the same thing if you're out there recruiting on linkedin and you pull somebody in well i wasn't looking for a job but i'll go over there and then guess what then they're gonna to do it again then they're going to do it again if that's so we've had to be careful to not do the uh knock on the front door of the house routine on linkedin in terms of our recruiting because a couple times we've actually done that and it bit us as as employers so because they don't stick or they've got a horrible attitude because they're just here for the money or whatever. And that's a horror. You know, you hire people that work in a J-O-B. God, just get, oh, killing me, killing me.

So, yeah, you got to show up and actually care. So, yeah, but none of that's directed at you, Albert, but that's just something we learned in recruiting during this great resignation thing. That's right. Because we were having to do more outbound recruiting than we've ever done to get the right positions and some very specialized positions to fill. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us, America.

We're so glad you are with us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Mike is in Las Vegas. Hey, Mike, what's up? Hi, Mike. Dave, thank you so much for taking this call from me. So I've been in a pretty good lucrative sales career for a lot of years and recently lost my job. Performance-based industry, of course, things happen.

But I sort of crunched some numbers and I've racked up, including my vehicles and credit cards, about $93,000 in debt. I'm paying about $1,200 a month in interest alone. And so I've got this IRA with about $150,000 in it and I was thinking to myself, cash it out, take the penalty and wipe all this out and start fresh. How old are you? I'm curious if you think that's a good idea or not. How old are you? 49. What were you selling?

I was working for a hospitality company here in Las Vegas. Okay. In sales. I was making about $6,000 a week, and so it's just taking a little longer to replace the income. $6,000 a week. Yeah. So you were making 300 grand yeah okay and you were not performing and you were making six thousand dollars a week so i was in the leadership role and it was a team thing. I see. Okay.

So you weren't actually doing sales. Part of my job was sales, but mostly leadership. Yeah. Okay. All right. Um, are you married? I am a single dad. I have an eight year old son. And so, you know, part of the thing is, you know, I don't want to put my son in public school.

He's been in private school since he was, you know, in preschool. And so there's some big bills that I'm dealing with. Yeah. Well, that wouldn't be caused by the debt. That'd be caused by the lack of income. Yeah, so it's all adding up. And, you know, I've had, you know, several months of a nest egg, but I'm getting toward the end of that.

I'm trying to see where I can make some money. How long have you been unemployed? It's been in two months. Okay. All right. First, I'll answer your question, but your question is not your problem. It's a symptom of your problem. Your problem is income and job.

Your problem is income and job. Your problem is not debt. Your lack of income has shined a light on the stupidity of your debt, but it's not caused the problem. The problem is the income evaporating and not replacing it for two and a half months. So the answer is no, you don't cash out your 401K for this. You get a job and solve the income side because if you cash this out, you're going to get hit with, if you make the same kind of money, you're going to get hit with a 10% penalty plus 30% of taxes, so 40%. So it's like saying, hey, Dave, I'm backed against the wall. Should I borrow money at 40% interest and pay off my debt?

The answer would obviously be no you do anything to keep from doing that because 40 oh my gosh you know you never borrow money 40 interest you never borrow money but never borrow money 40 interest ever so what we got ken is a career crisis so we got a job crisis so let's get the guy a job what do you think yeah so you've been in leadership how long were you in leadership uh prior to actually being in sales just a sales role uh so i've been in leadership and sales for five years and then before that i was in just selling yeah how aggressive have you been right now to get back in so i i've recently taken a job job in solar just to see if it's because, you know, it's a booming market here in Las Vegas. But it takes some time to build up. Okay. What does that mean?

You stray commission or you're on a very low salary? Yeah, the salary is $20,000 a year and then it's all commissioned on top of that. All right. So you just took the first thing that kind of came your way, right? Yes. All right, so where you stand right now, you're a veteran here. How long is it going to take you to get to a point where you're close to what you were making before in this solar company? I'm thinking 60 days. 60 days, okay.

That's not that far. So, you know, now we've got to sit here and go okay we've got this gap all right and so how can we float and survive for 60 days putting all your effort into winning because if you're going to start making the 25 000 a month uh in 60 days you're gonna be fine i think you're okay i wouldn't be panicking right now. Only this time, pay off the debt with that dadgum income. Don't spend it all again. I'd get on the phone with his debtors, and I'd start telling them your situation and your reality. Well, 60 days is not 60 days.

60 days is when he reaches the top. That's right. On the way to the top is a bunch of money. There's some money there. You're right. If it's a straight line, if it's not on a curve, after 30 days, you'd be making $100.5. So the reason I ask that question, Mike, is I'm trying to figure out what are we pivoting to or what do we need to do? But it feels like right now, you're doing what I would coach anybody

with your kind of experience. Let's go get – we're not worried about the dream job here. We're not looking at 15 years from now. We're looking for stability, and it looks like you're going to have stability in 30 days? 60 for sure? I'm paying $2,700 a month in these payments with $1,260 of it going towards interest. Right. And it just, like, this is terrible. Well, that didn't bother you when you had a job, right? No, it didn't.

Okay. Right. So, again, the debt is a problem and hopefully this is your wake-up call and you'll clean it up once you get your income back up but um but paying it off with 40 interest is not a good idea yeah and not necessary right now no it's not you don't have to it's just you just had a wake-up call with this is crazy i gotta fix this well yeah i'll fix it after you get some income and if you're're really stressed, you're not going to like this answer, Mike. But if you're really stressed over that $1,200 with your smaller income right now,

go work some other job in Vegas. I'm going to tell you right now. I've been reading articles. Vegas is a hot job market. Sell something. Go get an extra job. Get two extra jobs. And, you know, start making money at night and weekends

while you're building up your pipeline. You can take control over this, and I think you're looking for the easy out. And what we're telling you is, while it's easy, it's going to hurt a lot, and you're chopping yourself off at the shins. It's just dumb. It's short-term thinking. That's right. Don't do it. It's a bad It's just dumb. It's short-term thinking. That's right. Don't do it.

It's a bad long-term play and a great short-term play. But yeah, I would not. I wouldn't. No. No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in.

We'll talk about your life and your money. Ken, let's talk about the job market for a second. The job market in general, it went through the whole great resignation and then the great regret. I wish I hadn't left the good job for a few more bucks here and there. And then that has now settled out, and we're kind of back into more of a normal rhythm, but we have almost no unemployment. That's right. So we're still at a place where the job market's hot in the sense of opportunity. What's not happening is companies aren't paying over, overpaying for people and creating the musical chairs that existed. So now companies are slowing down in a normal hiring process. They're not panicking.

A lot of companies waiting to see what happens in this election year. We are already, by definition, in a stagflation environment. We saw in the first quarter the GDP reduced, and we're seeing inflation increase. So a lot of companies are sitting back and watching. However, of the jobs that are available, it's still in the workers' favor, Dave. We're, again, about one and a half jobs available for every person who is actively saying, I'm unemployed and I'm looking. This does not count for millions of people who are just saying, I'm out and I'm not interested in working. So favorable job market, but the days of skipping around like our previous caller this hour and

getting a 12 to 20 percent bump, those days have cooled dramatically. So now it's companies are looking for loyalty. And as a worker, you should be looking for stability in a company that says they've got a long-term play and an opportunity for me to grow because that we'll never get back to what we experienced two years ago. You're just not going to see that in the job market where people were just leaving and leaving and leaving and getting bumps and bumps and bumps. It's not going to happen. Companies learn their lesson on that. So short version, still a very favorable job market. Let me tell you one part of the economy, and this hits all of our audience. If you want to make more money to get through the baby steps faster, the gig economy is absolutely blowing up. Freelance work, nights and weekends with those

skills you have, it's out there. Go get it. Get you some more money. Get you some. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. you