The Ramsey Show - App - Getting Out of a Hole of Debt (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 12, 2023

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book, Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host. Thanks for joining us. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Marcus is in Oklahoma City.

Hey, Marcus, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dan Perry, yeah. Better Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I'll just be quick and to the point. 2020, 2021, I was working a mortgage company. They closed their doors in 2022. I was making quite a bit.

Now I'm a teacher. Didn't file my taxes for 2020 and 2021. Probably 80% of that was obviously commissioned. So I did, I know I need to file those now, obviously, and I'm going to owe quite a bit. I was just going to see if I could maybe get some advice on how to go about doing that in the least harmful way. Ouch. Okay, here's the thing not paying taxes is not a criminal act not filing taxes

is a criminal act that's what's weird we do not have a debtor's prison they don't put people in jail for not paying their taxes but they do put people in jail about 2500 a year for failure to file okay so that's where that's the danger that you're in i'm more concerned about that than i am the payment plan i don't think you're in trouble and because 99 of the time that you're not some paula not some public figure that you come and self-file, you know, you catch up your filings. They're just all late. You don't get into any criminal issues. But I want you to get it done now. I don't want them to come find you, okay?

I want you to go to them, like, immediately. No later than the middle of January. These documents need to be filed, okay? Yes, sir. You know, that's the panic. Then the second issue is how do we pay it? Well, number one, we've got to assess the damage and figure out from the actual filings what you actually owe.

And then, you know, your worst-case scenario is you're selling some stuff and putting the KGB, I mean the IRS, on a payment plan okay so uh because i mean if you were doing mortgage origination in 2020 you made some bank yes sir yeah like what'd you make that year probably two 250 and you paid zero taxes yes sir did you save any yeah yeah i got got about probably $100,000 saved. Oh, good. Okay. Because you're probably going to have a $100,000 tax bill. Oh, yeah. Okay.

If you've got two years of that, you will. Yeah, easy. Yeah. So you're going to give them what you've got to limit it, and then you're going to work out the payments. What you've got to have is a real tax pro in your corner right now. And if you'll go to RamseySolutions.com and click on the tax ELP for your area there in Oklahoma City, I know them. They're good people.

They can sit down with you and help you first get the filings done and then secondly negotiate the payment plan and how much of this you've got to throw at them to keep them off your bank account. Because we don't want them putting liens on everything after you file, but also don't want them putting bracelets on you that connect because you didn't file. Yes, sir. So we need to get filed, and then we need to develop how tough the path is that we've got to walk through. Do you own a home? Yes, sir. What's it worth? About $ to walk through do you own a home yes sir what's it worth

uh about 500 what do you owe about 200 okay well and and what is your household income nowadays um probably about 70 i have three jobs right now so i'm a teacher i do some data entry at night and i do wait some tables on the weekends you have any money other than the hundred i know you have any money in retirement you have money in retirement i do okay all right i do not tell people to cash out retirement for um for to pay off debt i might to pay off the irs to keep from selling your home you follow me so that's what you've got to get into you've got to ascertain because let's just say this okay let's say it's 150 and you throw 100 down and you say okay we're going to pay

uh 20 or we're going to pay two thousand dollars a month for three years and we'll be out of debt that's okay but if it's a if it's 200 and you put 100 down and you're gonna be in debt for a decade you don't want that you need to you need to clean out something else the house or the retirement accounts and clean up the mess so the not filing and it's not the not filing the not paying and the not filing i hope it's not a ton more than the hundred when you get there it's going to be something more than that but you've you need to get you need to understand the size of the problem the uh the not knowing is a bigger stress inducer than knowing the details so you've got the cancer diagnosis you just don't know what the treatment is yet

and you don't know whether it's terminal you know so the first thing they do is they scare you to death and you go around for about two months with or two weeks with no information and then they start going okay well here's the treatment plan oh you mean i'm not going to die well that would have been handy information about a week ago you know and that's kind of what you're dealing with here is that same set of emotions. So, you know, the, yeah, get with a tax pro today. When you hang up, open up RamseySolutions.com, click on Tax Pro ELP at Oklahoma City and go sit down with them this week. I don't give a crap if it's Christmas. You know, you need to give yourself a gift to get this monkey off your back. Oh, man, that's scary.

Yeah, and I hope he has. He saved some money. I hope he also has some write-offs and records of that kind of stuff so that he can, you know. The better your records, the more you can limit this. Yes, that's exactly right. Write-offs and records. Tax Pro here is huge, though. Do not try to figure this out on your own.

No, and don't go ask the IRS what to to do oh yeah good lord yeah it's like asking a dog if it's hungry you know no we don't do that so you know where did you get your tax information from the irs oh my god you're a fool you know no no no no no no no we don't we don't ask them we don't ask the fox about the hen house hello yeah so yeah oh yeah they're no, no. We don't ask them. We don't ask the fox about the hen house. Hello. So, yeah. Oh, yeah, they're tasty. And by the way, don't ask them for grace either because they don't have any. This is get your tax pro to help you evolve communication. You mean Grace Quinn?

I used to talk to Grace. Yeah, right. I used to talk to her weekly. She called me all the time. It's like from Christmas Vacation. She died 10 years ago. Yeah. Yeah, they're just not going to be kind.

And a tax pro here is going to be your advocate. And they know everything that they can do. They're worth it. So don't try to navigate this on your own. Yeah. And here's the last part of this. Okay. These commercials that are on cable TV.

Do you have $10,000 or more in tax debt? We can get it forgiven. We have ex-IRS agents working for us. Just give us $5,000 and we will promptly do nothing for the next 24 months. That's what that is. That's a complete freaking scam. There's a thing called the OIC, an offer and compromise that you can get your federal income taxes forgiven. About 1% of them are approved. You have to prove total paupership, meaning you don't have a house, you don't have a job, you don't have any potential income, and you don't have any assets of any kind. And then they will forgive your debt after fooling with them for about two and a half

years. Don't answer those stupid butt cable TV ads. Go get a tax pro and actually work a plan to get the mess cleaned up. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Sarah is with us in Honolulu. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi.

Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? My question is, what I should do with an inheritance that I'll be receiving? Okay. How much of an inheritance did you get? $180,000. Wow! Who left you that?

My mom. Oh, I'm sorry. When did she pass, hon? Earlier this year oh my i'm sorry how old are you um 52 5-2 yes okay cool what do you make a year my husband and i's um household income is $250,000 net. That's good. Okay. So how long have you been listening to us?

A while, off and on. Okay. So you've heard us talk about the baby steps, I assume. Yes. We don't have any debt except for our mortgage that we owe $410,000. Okay. Do you have an emergency fund? Yes, it's $55,000.

All right, good. Do you have anything safe for your kids' college, or are they grown and gone? They're grown. They're kind of doing it now. And we do have in our checking account, we have $100,000 right now. Okay. All right. For what?

I don't know. We're just, we don't know what to do. We're just overthinking everything. Okay. So you have $100,000 in addition to this $180,000? Yes. Okay. So that's $280,000, and you owe $400,000, and you make $100,000 in addition to this $180,000? Yes. Okay. So that's $280,000 and you owe $400,000 and you make $250,000.

Yes. Okay. All right. Well, as you probably have heard, if you've listened for just a few minutes on this show, we know that from the data we have and the 30 years of experience doing this, that as we talk with millionaires, they have two primary areas that cause them to get their first $1 to $5 million of net worth. And the two primary areas are a paid-for house and their built-up retirement plan, investing steadily into your 401k, Roth IRAs,

and those sorts of things. And so we teach people to become debt-free other than their home in Baby Steps 2. And then 3 is have an emergency fund. You've done those. Baby Step 4 is invest 15% of your income into retirement. You should already be doing that or you should start doing that. 5 is kids' college. Does not apply here. Yours are grown and gone.

And 6 is pay off the house early. So if you were to work the Baby Steps, you would apply any free money that you have, not counting an emergency fund, not counting putting 15% of your income towards retirement, any other free money that you have, like, for instance, $180,000 inheritance, or any free money that you have, like, for instance, an extra $100,000 laying around sloppily in the checking account, I would throw all of those towards paying off your home as soon as possible. If you did that, you would only owe about $100,000 on your house, and you could pay it off in a couple of years. Okay.

And if you had a paid-for house, then that'd be a whole cool thing, because that house in Honolulu is pretty stinking expensive. Yes. What's it worth? I believe about $1.1 million. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So paid for house alone makes you a millionaire, right?

Yes, it does. So any objection to paying off your house? The only thing that we've been thinking about is that we may or may not have to move in a year or two to the West Coast, and we haven't been able to decide where we want to retire when my husband retires in seven years. So we're just kind of like... That doesn't matter. You can sell the house when you move. Okay. You're not giving the money away. You can sell the house when you move. Okay. You're not giving the money away.

You're paying off a house. When you sell the house, they give you a check. Okay. And then another option was SmartVestor Pro said that we could invest the money until it builds up to the amount that we need to pay off the mortgage. No, they didn't. If they did, they're not going to be a SmartVestor Pro anymore because that's contrary to what we teach, and they know that.

Okay. I'll fire them for doing that. I will not endorse someone that says to do that. And a SmartVestor Pro is who I endorse. So you hang on. We need to find out who it was that said that, and I want to follow up on this story and make sure you got your story straight before I fire them.

Because that's not what we teach people to do, and we don't send people to SmartVestor Pros who teach them to do something different than what we teach. We never tell someone to build up enough in their mutual fund with their smart investor bro until they pay off their house. We tell them pay off the stinking house as fast as you can, though the money added as fast as you can. So either you misunderstood or they're getting ready to get fired. One of the two. So, uh, we'll find out about that. We'll have, uh,

Austin pick up and find out what the real, what really is going on here. But, um, no, you need to pay off your house, son. Throw the money at the house. That's what I would do. You called and asked me. Now, you're a grown-up. You get to do whatever you want to do. But I don't think your mom who left you this money is going to be mad when your house is paid off.

I think it's a great legacy, a great tip of the hat to your mom, a great way of honoring her to have your home paid off. The difference in stability in your life, the difference in future wealth building, making $250,000, living in a million-dollar paid-for house, how fast you will be able to add to your wealth is mind-boggling. It's mind-boggling. So hang on.

Austin will pick up, and we'll get to the bottom of that. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ken, that type of thing sometimes comes up. So we've got about 5,000, 6,000 people that we endorse through our SmartVestor Pro program or whether it is through the ELP program with real estate, taxes, and so on. We require all those people to first and foremost have the heart of a teacher we require them second to give advice that is consistent with the advice that you hear here so that i'm not telling you to do one thing and then someone i send you to is telling you to

do something else that would be hypocritical And then you're just confused because of the inconsistent lack of integrity that that represents. So that is something we require. So when we tell you to go to a smart investor pro, you're going to get the heart of a teacher and advice that is consistent with what you hear here. And that advice is not consistent. Yeah. And as a matter of fact, it's almost perpendicular.

Well, and I wanted you to explain why, because I think that makes a lot of sense to people. Okay, put it in a mutual fund, let it gain some. Why do we teach the opposite to say, no, let's knock the house out, get on that, not save it up in an investment fund and then pay it off? Because in my experience of doing this for 30 years, when you build up $400,000 or $200,000 in a mutual fund, you end up doing something stupid, but with it instead of paying off the house. Yeah.

Yeah. So it ended up becoming a distraction. It ends up being a problem yeah rather than a blessing right and um about half the time about half the time people actually follow through on it but it's a bunch of theoretical hogwash oh i'm going to make money at 12 percent of the mutual fund and i'm going to offset the seven percent mortgage or five percent mortgage or whatever i've got no you're not all right you're taking risk here that you're not even ascertaining you're not even measuring risk properly yeah so that's just that's you know i the number of millionaires that we interviewed out of 10 000 millionaires i said dave the way we got rich was we saved up money in mutual fund and paid off our house almost none almost none they paid off their house and they dumped money in their 401ks into mutual funds that's how they did it it's almost none might be

five or something out of a 10 000 of them so you know these people all these people have freaking theories yeah but they're people with no money they got all these theories or they've got a conflict where they're trying to get a commission that's the issue and so whether it's it shouldn't be from one of our better not be from one of the folks that pisses me off yeah but put my name on there's an agenda it's ramsey trusted hello yeah good god you know so i'm but most of the time when we check into this when it comes up on the air someone misunderstood yeah or the story was wrong or whatever. So hopefully that's the case there. And it's because it almost never happens because we're so freaking hardcore on the due diligence with these folks that we put in these systems because Ramsey trusted does mean something. It means I trust them. Hello. And everybody

that works here does. Hello. this is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So, if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a

medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget at chministries.org slash budget. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Philip and Rebecca are with us. Hey guys, where are you? Hey, how are you? Where you guys live? We're actually from Phoenix City, Alabama, which is outside of Auburn. Auburn, Alabama, and you're wearing an Aggies shirt. I'm so confused. So we actually moved to Alabama because I joined the military so we're actually from texas oh okay now i understand all right well thank you for your service thank you

what which branch are you in i'm in the army i'm a competitive shooter and uh she is a nurse cool okay so uh competitive shooter now i'm gonna sidebar just a second what the flip what do you do uh so uh spoiler alert uh i actually went to the Tokyo Olympics. I compete. Oh, with the air rifles then? I'm actually a shotgun shooter, but you're close. Okay. Yeah, so I'm a competitive shooter, and what they do is they then take my name and likeness

and try to get people to join as well and show what the Army can provide for you as a career. So, with a shotgun correct so you're talking about clays and that's me okay wow okay so you essentially are a spokesperson for the army by showcasing your skill that's exactly right yeah very interesting all right thanks for the sidebar all right how much debt have you paid off we paid off um 275 000 in five years in 60 months and your range of income during that time uh it was from uh let's see i got it written down here 115 to 165 okay very cool and you're in the military we got that established you said you're a nurse i'm a nursing director nursing director

okay two great careers very cool very cool so what kind of debt was the $275,000? We had a couple of cars and our mortgage. Paid off your house. Paid off the house. Couple of weirdos. Absolutely. I love you. Wow. What's this house worth?

Well, it was originally $220,000, but now it's about $325,000. Excellent. Wow. How old are you two? 28. 27. Wow. And you have a paid-for house that's worth 200 or 300 000 bucks wow wow wow wow well tell us

the story how'd you get turned on to ramsey and how'd you do all this stuff so i actually uh grew up listening to you through my parents uh financial peace baby yes i was yep so uh i listened to you it was right after some lady that would come on and talk about uh computers and uh i would tune into your channel after hers. And we would listen to you on the way home from Christmas and Thanksgiving and while on the road. So just kind of got interested. And actually, whenever we bought our house in 2018, about three days later, a hurricane came over. And I had never been in debt a quarter million in my life before. And then three days later for a

hurricane to come over it kind of sends a little bit of a shock through you right so then I was like you know I don't want to be in debt anymore we should probably listen to what this Dave guy has to say so wow so Kim Commando I bet yes that was her yeah Kim's a friend of mine that's awesome yeah she's been doing talk radio almost as long as I have. Yeah. Way to go, you guys. Congratulations. So you did it. $275,000. How long have you two been married?

Five years. Okay. So the whole time you've been married, we're getting this debt paid off. Yep. So we actually bought the house just a few months after we got married. Okay. All right. Very fun.

So, Rebecca, at what point did you realize you had married a freak? This guy's crazy. He listens to these people on the radio and wants to get out of debt. I know, right? Well, actually, we grew up together, so I've known him my whole life. Oh, you knew all along. I know. I knew what I was getting into.

You knew what you were getting into. Okay. Childhood sweethearts. There's a picture of us somewhere where we're both about eight years old at a birthday party together. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Wow.

There we go. Very cool. The only thing I can think of is they've known each other a long time, which probably takes away that weird situation when he comes to date and her dad brings out the shotgun. Then he's like, oh, well, I better not bring out the shotgun. That could be a really tough situation there. You had some skills, I'm guessing, early on.

I could give him some lessons. I know. Sorry, that's where my brain goes. Oh, got a shotgun yeah yeah yeah he's probably pretty proud of you as well I'm guessing absolutely okay here's what I want to know so you guys start right out of the gate you know newly newlyweds and we're going to go after this big goal was there a time where you wavered at all or were you and if you did how did you stay focused or were you just kind of locked in the whole time curious great question so i actually uh like any advice that i get i don't just like jump all the way in i kind of like test it a little bit so it took me a little while

to be honest did not get rid of the credit cards right away it took me a minute and then over time it just seemed like everything that that y'all teach came true. So then as it slowly became like a thing that comes true every time, I was like, okay, maybe I should trust a little bit more than trust a little bit more. So it just kind of like went from dipping my toe in the water to jumping, you know, headfirst. Yeah. That's fair.

Yeah. I mean, that's wisdom. That's right. A good dose of cynicism will keep you out of a mess. That's right. Yeah. One other follow-up question, and it's shotgun related. I can't help myself.

Instead of cutting up the carts, did you throw yours in the air and shoot them? I'm just curious. Actually, I just went with the shredder, but it would have been more fun to go ahead and shoot them. A little disappointed you didn't do that. I'll be honest. We've had some people do some pretty creative plastic surgeries with firearms. One guy with a.223 on full auto yeah it

was he just shredded them it was great yeah so a lot of fun good job you guys i'm proud of you i bet your parents are hollering and yelling i bet they're screaming loud oh they'd be watching i love it i love it well they should be they should be way to go you two you got an incredible start you're going to be multi-millionaires now somebody else is 28 or 27 or 25 is listening they're going gosh when i'm 28 i'd like to have paid for house what do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is you just got to be boring i mean that's the best advice you've ever given is that everything that you should do is it should be so boring that you get tired of it. Whenever you're out and you're spending your money,

you're trying to make things more exciting than what they actually have to be. And the secret is that there is no secret. And until you learn that, then you're not doing this the right way. Rebecca, what do you think? My advice would be it's a deliberative act. You have to choose this lifestyle and just continue moving forward with it we're very competitive people by nature and you know just watching the debt tick down is what kept us going you gamified it yeah yeah yeah it's addicting

yeah to run through it and knock it out it is yeah yeah that's very cool waiting for the next paycheck to come in so we can throw more money on it it's kind of dumb i mean you know it's kind of like so i can mark through these zeros you know it's like wow but it's not dumb because when you get there the other side of it how's it feel now oh amazing yeah there was this moment you know whenever we we reached christmas last year where we had seventy thousand dollars left and we were like huh i wonder if i wonder if we can do $70,000 by next Christmas. And we looked up, and it wasn't even Halloween yet, and we got our $70,000. Wow.

Look at that. That's awesome. When you put it in front of you, that's how it works. Hey, we got the live and give box for you, the Baby Steps Millionaires book. You're going to be one quick and early. Wow, 28 years old. Here you are already. Absolutely. You guys are amazing. I'm so proud of you heroes. Well done.

And thanks again for your service. Also, the Baby Steps Millionaires book's in there. The Total Money Makeover book's in there. You'll give that to one of your friends who might have been thinking you were crazy. Even the Financial Peace University membership. So all of that's there. The Live and Give box. And thank you for coming all the way up from Auburn, Alabama.

And thanks again for your service, and Merry Christmas to you. Way to go. Phillip and Rebecca, $275,000 paid off. That's house and everything. They did it in the first five years of their marriage. House is worth three-something now. They're well on their way to being Baby Steps millionaires. $115,000 income up to $165,000 debt-free. House and everything. worth three something now they're well on their way to being baby steps millionaires 115 000

income up to 165 debt-free house and everything count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're debt-free i love it that is so fun that is so fun that's great i feel like we should be celebrating old west style right now just firing shotguns in the air you know because they they fired shotguns a lot in the old west what are you talking about well sort of the bar scene it's more the revolvers yeah the revolvers i understand i took a little bit of yeah you reached well i went the West, and I thought instead of the revolver, let's go with the shotgun. I was making it all come together. I mean, you've got to give me a little creative license here. But that's a great story, though.

Another young couple here who's literally changed the trajectory of their life. That's two in a row. Both of them under 30 with paid-for houses. That's crazy. I mean, you know how many years I did this show before somebody under 30 came over and paid off their house? Paid off their house. Yeah.

And it happened twice just today already. Yeah. Oh my gosh. You won't see that on TikTok. You do if you watch this show. Yes, there it is. Because we're taking up

some space in that crazy environment. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. You can hear him daily on The Ken Coleman Show and podcast, broadcast on radio, on SiriusXM, on podcast, on YouTube. And he's always talking about your career and your job and how to make more money and how to do something fun with your life where you actually end up with money, and that's a cool idea. Lots of cool projects and things around that, including his number one bestselling book,

Paycheck to Purpose. He's my co-host today. Aaron is in Orlando. Hi, Aaron. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up in your world? Well, I have a couple questions for you. I'm torn right now with the current economy to either start my own business or to enter a better-paying trade than what I am currently in for the long haul. What trade are you in? Currently, I do lift station work, sewage pump stations, and either for private companies, and then I maintain them. What do you make?

I currently make $24 an hour at 22. Okay. You're 22 years old. Oh, wow. Okay. And what trade are you thinking about pivoting to or moving to? Are there several or is there one that's got your attention? The one trade that has my real attention and has been one I've wanted to for a while

is I would like to do line work if I don't start my own business. Yeah. Big money. Big money. In fact, I was talking to a guy a couple weeks ago who runs a line company training business, a line training these folks, and it's just they're looking for people. There's great opportunity. So what's keeping you from moving into that? He might open his own business. Yeah, but I want to know the answer to this first question because I think that helps us with the second one. Are you truly considering it? You've been thinking about it a long time.

Why haven't you moved? The biggest thing with it is economic climate. I live in Florida, and that's one thing that has kept me from throwing away a job and jumping full in to try to start my own business. Because right now the price of everything in Florida is so high, not a lot of people have the money to go ahead and do that. Why would you be throwing away a job if you're taking another job in line? I want to know why you haven't moved towards that trade, the line.

Okay. Currently, one of the biggest things is I would have to travel, and I'm not trying to jump into a vehicle payment to get a better vehicle where I can travel with. Okay. But you're assuming that you have to go into debt to be able to get a decent vehicle to be able to get to the job. Do you have any money? I have about $2,500 in emergency after some medical expenses I recently had.

Okay, so when they hire you to do a line job, do they pay a signing bonus of any kind right now? No, sir. There's a local union out of Ocala, Florida that I'd be looking to join, and that's a three-and-a-half-year process to get a journeyman's card, and that would put me in the range of $44 an hour.

Okay, yeah. All right, so it's not instantaneous. It just takes a while. All right, now the business idea takes 20 minutes to start, but you just don't know whether to do it right now. What is it? It's fencing. I have some experience doing it from I used to work at a municipality,

and I have some experience doing that. Building the fence? Yes, sir, building, installing, clearing the land to go ahead and install the fence. Commercial fencing or residential? Residential is what I have experience with, like cattle fence and then residential privacy. What kind of equipment do you need for that? If I needed equipment, the ideal and what you would really need to turn over a profit margin would be a small skid steer with an auger. Skid steer is the best piece of equipment you can use if you're not trying to break your back. It saves about 75% in time.

Okay, so what's a good one going to cost? $10,000. Yeah. So now you know what you're dealing with. I don't want to make your decision for you or hang something on you, but I would say that I think that you should try saving up the money for the auger, and let's see if we can get a couple contracts here and there. But this isn't an all-in situation.

I don't think you have to quit your job to start working on fencing as a side gig. Yeah, I agree. I think you could pick up some side gigs with it, break your back for a little while. You're 22. And dig some holes, man, and build a fence or two, get the profit from that by the skid steer used, and then you can increase your profits and increase your speed.

But listen, there's never an economy that allows you to start a business ever that's easy. It's always hard. The worst boss you'll ever have is working for yourself. That guy is a butthole he will work you to death you follow me yes sir but you're not aaron you're not we're just metaphorically speaking i i currently do do fencing as a side, and that's part of what's keeping me from wanting to jump pool as well, is I currently do do it as a side gig. Great. They're picking up contracts.

Are you making any money? Yes, sir. Yes and no, depending on help. Down here, it's very hard to find help, especially in my area. You can't really find anyone who's worth anything. So Aaron, so here's the deal. I don't want in any way to, you know, squelch the dream here, but this is some really good data you're getting as to whether or not, is this something I really want to do? And I think you've got some real options here. You know what the path to moving into the trade of being a linesman looks like and maybe you can launch a business once you get into

that industry and really get some great experience and they pay you well to learn the trade i think you're at an inflection point where you have to decide is this if i had the 10 000 if i had all the clients would i really want to do the fence business when i'm 30 years old what am i gonna be glad i did yeah okay that's the way i ask it when i'm 32 years old 10 years from today a decade from now and whatever you do both of these things are hard physical work both of these things have risk both of these things have strain both Both of these things have strain. Both of these are hard. Both of them have tremendous income potential.

Either way, the economy or it's hard to get labor are not your problems. What your problem is is you're going to have to decide what you want to do with your life for the next decade? And do you want to look up at 32 years old and own a residential fence company with 25 people working for you, running jobs all over the city, and you're running around checking the jobs, and you're checking your profits, and you're estimating, and you've dialed it in,

and you've become known in the area as the go-to guy for fencing. And is that who you want to be? Or do you want to be a lineman? And high risk risk hard work um but unions dictating you know when you're working where you're working all that kind of stuff uh you're not your own boss uh but you've got a tremendous income yeah and um and pretty steady too yeah pretty steady it's not an old man's game.

That's true. You won't be doing it when you're 60, probably. But I've got to say this. Those kind of trades can fund another trade or fund your entrepreneurial venture and you being a small business person. If you want to stay in the trades, you know, I see guys all the time that are jumping from trade to trade to trade. They made really good money in one trade that funded them being able to start their business. So I would look really hard at that long-term. What does that 30-year play look like for you? Yeah, what do we want to do in the next decade? Where do I want to end up? And that should tell you where you're going. Don't let whining

about the economy or whining about it's hard to find good help. Let me just tell you, I've been running a business for 30 years. It's hard to find good help period yeah most people don't care most people don't work hard so don't hire them don't hire most people i got a building full of champions but i go through a lot of turds to get some champions too you know a lot of them over the years so that's just part of running a business man it's hard nothing you're signing up for is easy but uh you're the hero material. You can do it. This is The Ramsey Show.