The Ramsey Show - App - Give Yourself Permission to Be Uncomfortable (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 7, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show. Where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Co-hosting today on the Dave Ramsey Show with me, Ramsey personality, Dr. John Deloney.

Dr. John here to answer your questions about relational IQ, mental health in other words, and how we deal with other people, how we deal with stress, how we deal with the person in our mirror. And I'll be here talking about your money questions. And we'll probably be talking, both of us talking to you when you call in. Phone number is 888-825-5225. Gregory is in Virginia. Hey, Gregory, how are you? I'm good.

How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So I've read through the Total Money Makeover. I tell you, it's probably one of the best books I've read, probably about two and a half years ago. Thank you. And I am 100% on board.

You know, a great message is exactly what we needed. The problem is I can't get my wife on board. So I can give you two and a half years' worth of excuses. So, I mean, I've tried everything, you know, that the book says. So I guess it's a two-part question. Is there stuff I can try to encourage her to get on board? And then if not, is there a way to move through the baby steps and build wealth with your spouse not on board?

No. The second one I would not attempt to do. Number one, i don't have any data points in any of our experience or research that indicates you're going to be successful with that dragging your spouse kicking and screaming almost never leads to millionaire status so i'm going to move away from that one real quick so this really comes down to a marriage question is really what it comes down to. Now, sometimes what guys do, and I know I have done this many times because I am a task-oriented fool.

I see a task, I go to the task and really don't care much about anything else until I get the task done. I'm just driven that way. So sometimes what I have done with my wife, Sharon, is I come in and start talking about what and how we're going to do something before I shared with her why I wanted to do it and why it would be good for us. If I do the why ahead of time, which is the better version of Dave, I usually get her on board. But if I come in and go, hey, I just read this new book.

We're going to sell your car. That usually goes over like not at all. Okay. And so I don't know to the extent you did that. But if you did do that, that would make you like a normal guy. And you may want to restart the conversation with an apology because you do owe her one if you did that what do you think um she does not like to hear dave ramsey in the house see there you go see you've been you've been turned you don't turn me into a cuss word dude look at you so uh but

it's because you've been telling her all these restrictive things we're we're going to get on a budget we're going to cut up the credit. We're going to get on a budget. We're going to cut up the credit cards. We're going to get out of debt instead of why. You already know your why. You know why you want to do it, so you're willing to do the sacrifice. But sacrificing or engaging in pain without a good reason is a mental illness. No one would do that.

So you only would engage in pain if it gives you a greater good i don't want to live like no one else unless i get to later live and give like no one else there has to be a payoff on the other side and that's the why so what is it that gets her excited in the future uh if you were debt free and had a big pile of money what would be her favorite thing to do? Travel? You know, I've tried that because she wants to move to the beach. Okay. So I've tried to give her the goals. Hey, this is our goal. We want to be able to move to the beach one day.

This is what we need to do to get there. And then it's a good conversation, but there's no action after the conversation. Gregory, have you sat down and said, I'm scared with all this debt? Have you been vulnerable? It's rare that you sit down with a marriage partner and, I mean, this is, Dave just hit this nail on the head, saying, it hurts for me to keep doing it like this. The carrying debt scares me. saying it hurts for me to keep doing it like this. This, this,

the carry on debt scares me. Look around what's going on right now. Those who are not leveraged have a much better shot of getting out with fewer bruises on the back end of this. What's going on right now. And when you sit down with your, with your spouse and you talk from a place of vulnerability, man,

it, that can be unnerving on your end because she might say i don't care and now you got another problem right but at least you're putting your why on the table and being honest have you have you done that have you sat down with her that way uh in a roundabout way yes we've sat down it's roundabout husband roundabout means not really not really yeah, we've sat down and gone over, you know, listed all our debt. Yeah, that's tactics, though. And tried to go over a budget, but it's not.

Those are tactics. Yeah, that's what and how. That is not why. And so it needs to be that you spend, you have gone, I think you've done what I'm talking about more than you realize, just listening to you. And I don't think you ever need to say Dave Ramsey again in your house because I'm not the problem and I'm also not the solution.

You figure out why you're willing to sacrifice to win, and both of you get a why that you're willing to do that, and then you do the tactical sacrifices to win. And that's the process. If you can't do that and you're starting to throw up your hands, even in our conversation and discussed, this is not going to go well in your marriage. So you may need to sit down with a marriage counselor or with your pastor and try to get her to hear you.

You guys are speaking two different languages. And you're not communicating. You're both making a lot of noise. But there's not real communication. Communication means you were understood. And you understand. And you have not been understood. And I'm not sure you really understand. Either one.

So you guys need some help walking through this. And by the way. I don't know of many long-term, really high-quality marriages that at some point didn't have someone walk with them a little while and help them work through some rough patches. Absolutely. That's pretty much standard fare. Absolutely.

I know we've been married almost 40 years, but at the 10-year mark, we just about had two hillbillies killing each other. It was, I mean, she's from the hills of East Tennessee. Frying pan throwing there is an Olympic event.illies killing each other it was um i mean she's from the hills of east tennessee frying pan throwing there's an olympic event so i mean it was it was ugly but uh and a great wonderful uh marriage counselor filled with god's spirit came into our life and you know changed our life and by the way she's still a good friend of ours for this day that lady is and um that's my hope we go to the dentist a couple of times a year we talk to our pastor a few times a year we um you know you go to the doctor once or twice like

make this a part of you are having somebody with you yeah because i i i don't think we gave you the answer that that i didn't hear the light bulb come on over your head so you're going to have to keep working on this. And what you've been doing isn't working, so you need to change. Something's got to change. And what she's been doing isn't working, so it's going to change. And maybe she doesn't even want to go to a marriage counselor with you, but if I were you, I'd just go by myself because all this is is like marriage training,

how to speak woman. Start with vulnerability. Start with I'm sorry. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. You know, most of us are spending a little more time at home than we used to. And with that extra time comes cleaning out closets, working in the yard, and if you're smart, protecting your family with term life insurance, especially when Zander makes it so easy. Look, Zander is open for business.

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Dr. John with me co-hosting today, answering your questions along with me. You can read his latest article at DaveRamsey.com. Dealing with the Disappointment of Canceled Plans is stuff on YouTube at John Deloney. You need to check out his YouTube channel. It's exploding. How much media consumption is too much is one of them that's really popular. How to communicate well. Are you giving other people permission to hurt you?

That's a boundaries question for sure there. Good stuff. All right, Maurice is with us. Maurice is in Georgia. Hi, Maurice. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. You and Dr. Delaney, thank you for taking my call today.

Sure. How can we help? I'm a federal employee, Dave, and I've been not laid off for 90 days. We were sent home due to the coronavirus, and fortunately, I am getting paid my regular salary by being off. The question I have for you and Dr. Deloney today is, should I return back to work? I'll give you a little history. I'm a military veteran, and as I say, I'm a federal employee. And I suffer from COPD.

And I'm at high risk to, you know, having these conditions from the military. And I do receive a military disability check as well through the VA. And I'm debt free. Other than my home, I owe approximately $ debt-free other than my home. I owe approximately $12,000 left on my home. And I just want to kind of get a question about, should I return to finish paying off my home there? Is it okay if I seek employment elsewhere. I'm just really concerned because of my conditions and everything.

I'm not comfortable with going back and returning to work. Somewhat fearful, I admit, and just need some guidance on helping making that decision. Well, your fear is logical with COPD. I mean, you're definitely an at-risk person with the information that we lay people all have from the medical community. So your fear is logical. Then if I'm in your shoes, the thing I'm going to do is continue to gather information and not from Google or the media, but to put some wise choices in my life.

And if I have a fear that is illogical, that's a spiritual and emotional thing. If I have a fear that's logical, I have to work through the logic. And so do you have a personal physician that you could consult with that could give you advice and say um maurice really in your situation this is okay or no don't go back over there i do dave uh actually um i am seen at the local v8 facility in my area and uh i'm on a position care I've been on a physician care for quite some time since um I've been trying to find the different wars for my life in Afghanistan and um I have been advised um of course my medical condition and I do know that my back line had passed with um dealing with

this and if not to the point where it's severe, that I have to... But he advised you not to go back to work? Well, he didn't advise me. He's kind of leaving it open for me, being that he don't exactly know the type of work that I do. I do clerical work, but yet I'm on an industrial flight line. So I do come in contact with different mechanics, different people, conflict people as well. I think you need to give some detail to him so that he can give you some guidance.

You got to be real direct with your doctor. And this is going on all over the country where everyone's just nervous to make a call. You've got to get a doctor and you've got to put them point blank and say, I'm asking you for your professional opinion. And they're probably going to give you either a super conservative. If you're going to pin them down, they're going to say, well, then we're going to recommend you stay home, but you've got to get a medical doctor's opinion. And this is something that I've worked with veterans for my whole career.

When you are a combat veteran like you are, number one, thank you for what you do. Amen. Thank you for what you did, and thank you for who you are. Number two, you've got a picture of trauma. You've got a picture of, quote, unquote, what could happen that most of us roaming around the streets don't have. And so your fear alarms are louder than mine. Your understanding of risk is greater than mine. And so I want you to listen to that but also get a group of people, like Dave said, in your life that you trust, that can give you facts, give you data that know you, and that can help you move on.

You've got no obligation to put yourself in a situation where you're going to get hurt and sick and scared because you're trying to be tough or because you want to avoid a hard conversation with a doctor, okay? I want to high-five you and say go put your physician on notice that you need answers and you need support. And by the way, I would keep the conversation rolling. Like, you know, should I go back? Here's the environment. Here's the type of people I'm going to be in contact with. Here's the process. Is that going to cause me a super high risk?

Now, not a minor risk. You're going to take a minor risk when you get to car and drive over there. We all take risks, but what you've got to do is is the risk a reasonable risk that a wise person would do in this situation? And then if he says, no, that job right there, you don't need to do that anymore. Then you ask him, the next question is, what job can I do? Because I am not going to give you a recommendation just as your friend that says never come out of your home again. Nope.

That would be a bad recommendation. And that's, you know, I don't think that's reasonable in this situation. So, again, but, you know, if it was me, that's exactly how I would handle it. I would talk to the doc and go, okay, if I don't need to do that because there's too much contact there and, you know, if it was me, that's exactly how I would handle it. I would talk to the doc and go, okay, if I don't need to do that because there's too much contact there, and, you know, and because of my issue, my COPD, I got this is a major issue. It could be, it could kill me. Okay, I get that. So what kind of situations can I be in?

And, you know, then you work it from there. But the question behind that question, Dave, that I want to make sure all the listeners are hearing, is it will be weird going back to work. It was weird coming in here the other day. It will be weird. Give yourself permission to be uncomfortable. That's just the way it's going to be because we've been told that every cough and sneeze and weird doorknob is going to kill us. And it might.

That's the thing. So expect it to be weird. Expect to have some nerves. Find some people in your community you can talk to about it, and don't beat yourself up over being uncomfortable going back into the workforce. And then you've got to make fact-informed decisions. Yeah, exactly. We reopened our office exactly the same way.

The governor's opened the state of Tennessee, and so we've had 1,000 people working from home for five weeks, and we said, you know, we could go monday's voluntary this last monday is we're reopening and unless you have an issue like he's got then you need to be here and some of the folks in here last monday if you walked around on the floors kind of had that look that deer in the headlights look like looking around looking like something you're gonna kill me you're gonna kill me a little bit of that and uh but now you know here we are three or four days later and it's it's back to normal people are treating each other you know with with uh you know they

don't have that look and some people have masks and they're being treated right yeah some people don't they're being treated well so it's everybody honoring each other and um yeah but the the the thing is it is i was in the building the whole time because we've been doing the thing here is empty it was eerie this huge huge office building holds a thousand people there's nobody in here but about 20 of us that was weird for several weeks and then we had a few more in here and then we had you know then we're all back here but you're right there's a there's a process that you go through there's kind of a thawing out of your heart uh your heart's like frozen in these situations or something like that.

I don't know what the metaphor is. Some people are putting denim on their body for the first time in their lives. They've just had sweatpants and pajama bottoms on. And that feels weird, too. Some people are putting on pants. For the first time in weeks. In weeks. Man, I'm grateful for you, Maurice.

Thanks for calling, man. Yeah, thank you for what you do. And your fear is not illogical, sir. But you can work through even a logical fear and minimize the risk and, you know, put some boundaries up and say, okay, under these circumstances, this is a good idea. And if you have COPD, you're not a wimp for staying home. Amen. Amen. Now, good for you. You are a have COPD, you're not a wimp for staying at home. Amen. Amen. Good for you. You are a wimp for not a wimp, but

it's not going to be good for you to stay home and never do anything the rest of your life on that basis. Bad move too. That's not wisdom. So there's this thing where we figure out what are the parameters by which we can go forward. Whether it's that job or another job. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, I love telling you about well-made, well-thought-out products.

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We actually need 842 today, right now, people to lead classes. So we're short. We need some help getting these classes out. Lead FPU to 33-789. Patrice is with us in Florida. Hi, Patrice. Welcome to the Dave us in Florida. Hi, Patrice. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure. How can I help? I recently inherited my late father's small residential rental business. He passed away in March. I'm sorry. And thank you. Three weeks prior to his passing,

I had visited him. We went over his entire business, but I'm not that familiar with running it. I work two jobs, and now I've been able to quit one of those jobs. So he had a series of rental properties, is that what you're saying? And he was managing them, and that's the business? That is the business. How many rental properties? He had his personal house and three duplexes. Okay. I kind of hear in your voice you're not really enthused about doing this.

Oh, no, I'm just really nervous about talking to you. I'm sorry. Oh, that's okay. That's okay. That's fair. I am too. We've never lost a patient, so you'll be okay. But how do you feel?

Are you enthusiastic about being a landlord? I'm enthusiastic about running a business, being a so-called landlord. I'm not too sure about it. I put together a computer program where I can keep track of everything, such as the rents, the insurance that's due on them, when they're due. I'm pretty enthusiastic about, you know, businesses itself. The bad part is, is that I am six hours away. Oh!

Yes. And I need a plan to... How old are you? I'm 58. And how much do you make at your job? What's your income? $50,000 a year. Okay.

Do you want to move there or do you want to sell these? Oh, I don't want to sell them. Managing them six hours away is untenable. It is, except for I have a brother that is not included in this, but he is familiar with this. Managing them six hours away is untenable. I understand that, but my brother is in the area. Doesn't matter.

Okay. I'm 59. If I woke up in your shoes shoes i would either move to the area and take my 50 and get a 50 000 job there or and manage this stuff or i would begin to liquidate it i would not try to manage i would not try to manage duplexes and single family residential properties six hours away when i'm a brand newnew landlord and I've never done this before. This is a recipe to get the Harley oil changed in your living room floor by your tenant. You're going to have problems because you have to have physical proximity to properties

when you're managing them this way in order to not have the expenses run up, the revenues go down, and the destruction of your property go up. And she's also going to have to balance that with the grief. Exactly. It's going to be all tangled up together. And by the way, yeah, you haven't dishonored your father's memory by selling him. By selling the house, no, not at all.

Not at all. Amy is in Florida. Hi, Amy. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you for having me. Sure. What can Dr. Hi. Thank you for having me. Sure. What can Dr. John answer for you today?

I'm trying to figure out how to talk to and teach my kids about money without implying anything negative about their dad, who is not great with money. Are you all still married? No. Okay. What'all still married? No. Okay. What's the custody arrangement? I have them 60% of the time.

He has them 40% of the time. Okay. So tell me what you want to teach me about money. You know, budgeting. They're new teenagers, so college is starting to be on the horizon as far as what they're thinking of and teaching them about not getting into student loan debt and maybe living at home is a good idea while they go to school so that they don't get into debt.

And they're also on the verge of being able to get a job and spending wisely, budgeting, things like that. So here's a couple of important things. And, David, I'd love your thoughts too. Number one, kids learn by watching you. And so if you want to teach them about money, especially young teens, let's say 13-, 14-year-olds, 15-, 16-year-olds, you bring them along when you make your budget every week or every month and you help teach them the value of a dollar. And when they get a paycheck, you make sure that they're giving and that they're saving and that they're a part of this process. One of the things I dealt with for years working at

universities was parents whose kid graduated as a senior, and then they started doing the college math problem, right so you you are way ahead of the game sitting down with your kids saying what's this going to cost what's this going to look like here's what a dollar amount is just doing real math and i love that you're asking this question so please hear me bad mouth and dad is a losing proposition for everybody the best way for you to teach your kids about money i don't want to oh i know i can hear that that's why i love this call i can tell that that's not where you want to go um but by saying hey don't be like that to a 16 year old they're going to start to hear a division right the best way is to say here's how we're going to do money when you're at my house to the 60 percent of the time

yeah but dad but dad but dad yeah i know but at our house here's what we're gonna when you're here you don't even have to make a comment on him or what he does. Don't even reference it. Don't point negatively or positively to it. Just pretend like it's not there. At our house, here's what we do. And kids are desperate for boundaries. And so they're not going to want to do budgets with you, but you're going to make them.

When you're in my house, we're going to do budgets together. When you're in my house, we're going to set aside some money to give. We're going to set aside some money to save. Because my job as your mom is to teach you how to become an adult. Not to be your friend. Right, right. You're in adult training school, and I'm the teacher. And my job is not to make you feel good.

My job is not to build up your self-esteem. My job is not to build up your self-esteem my job is not to comb your hair my job is to teach you how to be an adult so that someday you leave and amy amy this this this stinks for you because you're gonna have to live it right it's gonna be better than a big fancy speech a one-time like you know new rotney speech you're gonna have to live it and you're gonna have to be accountable to yourself and to these young kids you know i i would just, you know, new Rodney speech, you're going to have to live it. And you're going to have to be accountable to yourself and to these young kids. You know, I would just say you know, as a single

mom when I first started doing this, honey, I was scared and I want you to see this. You know, as a divorced lady, this is what I felt. And this is what I was. And I want you to see this. And here's how this works. And I want you to see this. And yeah, Rachel Cruz says, more is caught than taught. It's a great phrase.

So you're going to do great. I really just would not even reference him one way or the other. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. What a great question. Folks, since you're spending more time at home these days, why not make the most of it? Now, I know not everyone has the means to do a full renovation, but thanks to our friends at Blinds.com, there are some small changes you

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Rules and restrictions apply. Our scripture of the day, Isaiah 43, 19. Behold, I am doing a new thing. Now it springs forth. Do you not perceive it? I will make a way in the wilderness and rivers in the desert. Dennis Waitley said, life is inherently risky. There is only one big risk you should avoid at all costs, and that is the risk of doing nothing.

Kind of plays today. Deborah's in Connecticut. Hi, Deborah. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show Hi, thank you too for your time today Absolutely Thank you for your time What can Dr. John answer for you today?

So I've been married for six years And my husband was one of my best friends For the six years prior to that Three months ago I came home from work The time my husband was waiting for me He was all packed up and he told me he was leaving. It completely blindsided me as we hadn't been fighting or in counseling

or even discussed counseling or anything. Now we're in the divorce process since he says he does not want to work with us. So now I'm grieving over the loss of my relationship and the life I thought we were going to have and I'm just trying to figure out where I go from here. That sucks. I'm so sorry.

Thank you. Because you lost, man, you lost history, right? You lost a decade plus the best friend plus the decades ahead. You said that well. I'm heartbroken for you. Thank you. How long ago did he leave uh it was three months ago it was the 17th of february because we had just gone back from our six year anniversary weekend away just packed up and took off huh yeah he was off for president's day and i had to go to work when i came home he was just waiting to tell me he was leaving.

So a couple of things. You used the word grief, and that's a word that's been riling around in my head recently. I even went and got a couple of books on it and talked to a couple of colleagues who are experts on grief. And I think that's something that's in the water and the air that we're all wrestling with right now. I also think as a collective culture, we are terrible at grieving. Um, you get a couple of days off of work or your buddies, have your friends already told you to start saying like, well, are you going to start, have they started giving you dumb advice yet? Oh yeah, absolutely.

So I want to give you permission for a few things. And then, um, I want to hear what grandpa Dave has has to say um nothing his may involve a shotgun more than mine does but um number one there is no right way to grieve everybody does it differently and so everyone's you're going to get stupid advice that's going to be coming from people's hearts going to be trying to help um and it's going to be more hurtful than if they had just said nothing the second thing that's super important is you cannot grieve alone. And this is particularly hard for you right now because your best friend is the one that hosed you, right? How old are you?

Yeah. I just turned 30 a couple weeks ago. God almighty. So you're going to have to do the hard, hard thing and reach out to other friends and be vulnerable again. Okay. Are you in a good church by chance? Yeah, that's number three. No, I'm not.

I just moved to the area and we had just literally purchased a condo in December. Okay. literally purchased a condo in december okay i would really love if you could find if you're 30 a 45 or 50 year old lady who is wise and has has some miles has been through some stuff maybe even something similar and spend a little time with her because she's her life is where you're going to be and it'll help you to realize this is not the end of the world because you can see her over here she's successful she's remarried she's got kids she's whatever after the first one that crashed and um and you know like a living uh example of hope of what your future is. A picture of what tomorrow's going to look like.

A picture of what your tomorrow probably actually is. But it helps to have that in front of you and go, yeah, that's not only what I want, but her standing here makes me believe I can do it. That kind of a thing. I'd just love for you to find that person. That's why I ask you about church, not to shame you about church, but just to say if there was a cool lady at the church, even if you didn't know her that well, if you just saw her across the room and you thought, man, I always thought she's kind of got it put together, you know, I want to talk to her

and call her and ask her if you could just have a cup of coffee and go, I just, you know, I need a little lady of a decade or two ahead of me here that can show me that that I'm going to live through this and that this is when I look back on this in 10 years it's not going to feel like it feels today it's going to feel healed and there'll always be some sadness about it always looking back but it's not going to ruin your life there'll be a scar it won't be bleeding anymore though yeah right yeah it won't ruin it doesn't ruin your life and so something like that i'll never forget one time um in a financial peace university class way back when we very first started doing them i was in the small group that's how long ago it was okay i'm leading the small group and this lady was sitting there and she was in her 20s and she's crying and she's uh uh cuts hair

for a living and um she's raising a kid and she's like i'm i'm never i'll be broke my whole life i'll never be able to you know and uh you know tears run down her face i cannot believe i'll ever uh be able to win and i god just put on the other side of the room in that same group a 52 year old lady who said uh yeah when i was your age i was you by the way i own three shops now and i've got 750 000 in mutual funds um so you're gonna be okay it was like i you argue with that you know it's like this is the future you sitting here, you know. And all of a sudden, the lady just, you know, the tears stopped instantly. And she kind of went, well, all right.

And it didn't make the pain go away. Didn't make the hurt go away. In her case, it was hopelessness and fear. You know, she was afraid of the current situation and hopeless about the future. But there sat her future, the future version of her sitting across the room. The guy just positioned in that same small group. And it was magical. It was very cool.

Dolly. If all of us could look across, be that person to sit across the metaphorical circle, she doesn't need advice. She just needs someone to say, it's going to be all right, and I love you, and here's some tacos. I'm going to sit with you. it's going to be all right, and I love you, and here's some tacos. I'm going to sit with you. That's going to be it. And at some point, there will be meaning to make out of this.

She will grow, and we try to rush that process. This is going to hurt, and it's going to hurt for a long time. It's going to eat some people in her life. Rob is with us. Rob is in Missouri. Hey, Rob, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, thanks. So my question is about the best way to save for my retirement.

And my company offers 4% of my salary regardless of whether I contribute or not. In addition to that, they contribute 6% or they match up to 6% if I contribute 6%. Wonderful. So when I started with the company, I started at the 6%, and then they're adding 10%. And then I entered into an agreement where every year I increase my contribution by 1%. My question is, since now I'm at 9%, that extra 3% isn't being matched, would it be smarter to put that in a different type of retirement account, or should I keep putting that in my 401k? That's fine there.

Do you have Roth available as a Roth 401k? Can you start that from this point forward? So I don't have a Roth 401k, but I think it's a Roth IRA, and it's basically where previous companies' retirements have rolled out of the 401k and into that type of plan. Yeah, that's that's your that's something you've done on your own though but through your company if you have a roth 401k that would be my first choice but definitely do the match and beyond the match if you want to

continue with the traditional it's okay but i might do just my own roth iras um outside of the company as my step two so it's kind of a rock paper scissors thing match is best next beats roth beats traditional and so you know you do all you you do take all the match and then you add roth of some kind to that until you get to 15 if you still hadn't gotten to 15 then you do traditional but you've done really good you've done really good and obviously the company's very generous. You've got a really, really cool situation there. Very well done. Dr. John Deloney joining us this day as my co-host here on the Dave Ramsey Show.

Thanks for hanging out. Hey, thanks for letting me come on. Good stuff. It does my heart good. Be sure and check out his latest article at DaveRamsey.com, Dealing with the Disappointment of Canceled Plans. And check out his YouTube channel, which is absolutely exploding, at John Deloney. Easy enough. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer,

and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. In the middle of these uncertain times, Ramsey Solutions wants to give you some hope. For the very first time ever, we're giving you Financial Peace University free for 14 days. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope so you can watch from home.