The Ramsey Show - App - Go Slow: Never Invest in What You Don’t Understand

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of The Rachel Cruz Show, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Marie's in Sacramento. How are you, Marie? Hi, I'm doing good. Thank you guys for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So me and my husband just finished up Baby Step 3D, and we are buying our first home.

So we just put in an offer for a house that we really like. It was very reasonably priced. We have about 5% down that you guys recommend for the first home. And in negotiations, the sellers weren't willing to give up their appliances. And so that was going to be an extra $3,000 cost. We have like the 5% down, a little bit extra for closing costs, and our emergency fund. And I'm not sure if that $3,000 should come from taking a little bit less down, our emergency fund, or if it's a sign that we're just not ready to buy a house yet. Okay. So it's not an emergency.

Yes. So it doesn't come from the emergency fund. That's an easy one, right? Yes. And I don't know if I go so far as it's just not assigned to not buy the house. What's your household income? About $150,000. Which appliances? income about 150 000 which appliances which appliances fridge and the washer and dryer where's the fridge the house that you're in are you renting yes we are so you don't own

the appliances there at all no we do not okay all right um Okay. All right. Okay. You know, it feels like to me that you're buying a first house and this bump in the road scared you. And it makes you kind of go, oh, no, maybe I'm not ready. Because $3,000 when you make $120,000 a year shouldn't be't be you know we ought to be able to figure out a workaround right like we go get a refrigerator and we wait a month and a half uh or we get used washer and dryer and we figure it out where it's two thousand or fifteen hundred dollars to do all this and um yeah or you buy a cheaper version of both and upgrade it a year from now or two years from now and throw it out. I don't care.

But the $3,000 scared you that you were like, we can't even cover $3,000. Can we own a home? Because the expenses of it. No, it's not necessarily. No, I was going to say because the expenses of other things could be so much more. I could see how that's like intimidating where you think, oh, my gosh, if $ three thousand dollars is throwing us off what if the roof something happened to the roof or the you know the hvac or something that's that's seven times more than just this like you got an emergency fund for that yeah i know but i'm just thinking of her thought process like of how that can like make you stop and actually

question like oh my gosh are we okay so the contract is still under negotiation, or are you signed for it? It's still under negotiation. We offered like $3,000 less than we had originally offered. If they're not going to include the appliances, but we're still waiting to hear back. I think that since we're just at that 5%, I think I'm just like nervous that I'm going to do that. You're borderline. I mean, you're not stroking a big check here. You know, the other thing you could do is say, I don't have to buy this house.

Yeah. And walk away and go buy a different house that has appliances with it and that fits your numbers. That's the thing. And so, you know, and the interesting thing happens when you walk away from negotiations, sometimes they suddenly give up the appliances. Like I'm not losing.

What's the price range on the home it's 320 yeah so these idiots are going to lose a 320 000 sale on a house over three grand of used refrigerator we don't know yet they've not come back i know but they're willing they're willing to put it on the line that you're they're willing that you know if i'm the agent i'm looking at these people and dope slapping them. I mean, you guys are nuts. You're going to lose the whole deal over $320,000. A $320,000 over a used refrigerator. You've got to be kidding me.

So that's dumb on the seller's part, honestly. Okay, so then does that same logic go to Maria? Like you'd be dumb to walk away from a deal because of just a $3,000 appliances. No, I listen. If you can't figure out a way to put appliances in it and put down 5%, I'm going to walk away and go to a different deal. I'm going to pick out a different house. And I'll bet you money, good money, that these people give up their used refrigerator when you when you turn yeah you're a seller in the current real estate market in sacramento freaking california and you walk away from a buyer standing there with money

that yeah this is probably not going to happen it's what you're saying stupid on steroids yeah no don't do yeah i'm negotiating this i'm gonna play hard and just go with street fighter and say no or or refund us here's our deal and it includes the appliances or we'll look for a house where we can get appliances because we we're taking that as a sign from god i'm kidding it's not it's a used refrigerator god doesn't use used refrigerators as a sign it's not in the bible but it's not second hesitations but the uh yeah see what i'm saying i mean that's that's the thing so yes yeah yeah that's um so your prediction is maria's gonna come out okay or maria's because you think they're gonna say just we're gonna leave

they're gonna cave like last week yeah they're gonna okay now i'm like yeah they're gonna call back in and see if dave's right call back and tell me I'm wrong later because I could be wrong. Sometimes I do that in a negotiation and I'm shocked at how stupid the people on the other side are. It's like you're going to walk away from a $320,000 deal for a used refrigerator? It's not even $3,000. And a washer and dryer. Yeah, and a washer and dryer. So what could you get for a used refrigerator and a washer and dryer at a garage sale?

I mean, come on. $700, $800 maybe? So this is really dumb. But people are. People are. That's the thing. So, Marie, that's the way I'm looking at it. And I'm often wrong, but probably not on this one.

Give it a shot. Give it a shot. Let us know how it turns out. Rachel's right. You can call back and take me to task later. I my dream house because of you dave you can do that that's okay that's all right you can do that it's perfectly legal open phones at 888-825-5225 listen the real estate market is moving it the activity level out there is probably 4x what it was four months ago and that's people walking around kicking

tires making offers but it's still not exactly a boom real estate economy if you're selling a house you don't walk away over 700 dollars worth of compliance yeah but the uh but you you know in california for sure yeah and at ramsey solutions.com slash real estate we have the dashboard so it does it kind of gives you a pulse of exactly what's going on in the market if you are in the market if you're selling or buying check it out i do love this like the median price right now is 400 400 and oh my gosh 400 000 dollars is the median price of a home right now uh days on the market 73 days on the market you know it shows you right now what a fixed rate mortgage, 15 years at 6.1%.

Here's the thing. There's 829,000 houses on the market. That's 25% more houses on the market right now than this time last year. That's a big number. That's a big inventory lift. And so they're not going down in value, but there's plenty to pick from.

So if you're a seller and you have a buyer standing there with cash, you sell the stupid house. You know, if you really want to sell your house, if you don't, don't put a sign in the yard. I mean, come on. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks, and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years, and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide.

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thank you for joining us america i'm dave ramsey your host rachel cruz ramsey personality my daughter is my co-host today des moines iowa is next julia is with us hi julia how are you hi dave and rachel how are you? Great. How can we help? Well, my husband and I have been working the Baby Steps plan for about nine years. And as of last year, we hit step seven. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. We're mortgage-free. We're debt-free, everything. We are looking for mentorship and being outrageously generous. And I was just wondering if you had any book recommendations or how we do that. We tithe, but above and beyond that, we're just looking for a

little bit of mentorship. Good for you. Well done. It's a great question. So I'll just tell you what we do, Julia. I don't know if this is helpful at all. And I think there are some, yeah, there's some books out there, I think, when it comes to this idea of being generous. But, you know, from like a tactical standpoint, above the tithe, how Winston and I have done it, there are organizations that we align with, and ones that are close to our heart, meaning like there's one organization we've given to for 15 years, because it was an integral part of of our story and we really believe in what they do. So we give there. There's been elements of different times in life where like, you know, foster care has been big on my heart and we've given to things towards that or Winston's had things.

So from the organizational standpoint, it is always fun to be able to support someone who's doing what you love and what you believe in. So we've done it that way. And then this year in January, we're doing something different. We're just adding in on the giving section of our EveryDollar app. We put an amount of money every single month and we're forcing us, we're forcing each other, we're holding each other accountable to have that money be given away at some point in the month. So that could mean like a very generous tip could be part of that money. It could go towards if we hear something of, you know, a friend's family member, X, Y,

and Z, and we're able to kind of just like anonymously give some money there. So we have found more energy in that, honestly, because the organization giving is wonderful. And it's great. People just do incredible things. And with the Ramsey Foundation that we, as a bigger Ramsey family, are involved in, there's incredible organizations. But there's something about this joy for me of seeing someone or intersecting your story with someone else and able to help kind of in the moment there. And again, it could be anonymous or not, but giving room for those things to occur. And what that's done for me, Julia, is it's caused me in an everyday instance just to be looking and I'm more aware of people because

I'm like, okay, we have this money that I want to give. And I do as a believer, I'm like, there's something spiritual about it where I'm like, okay, where's the Holy Spirit kind of nudging me here? And I've just found with giving, when you have a pulse on that and you're just interacting with that part of your soul, if you will, it just creates a richer life where I feel like before we were a little bit tactical with our giving, like we gave our tithe and we'd give to an organization. But there's something about interacting with individuals on a day-to-day basis that again just that that's one element one way to give and i've enjoyed that i mean we're only in february it's only been two months of it

but there's i don't know there's just like this warmth to life there it came alive again for us because sadly giving can get stale if you just have it on autopilot right so like part of this is interacting with the money you're giving too so that that's what Winston and I do. But Dave and Sharon do it on a larger scale. Well, but it's still, it's the same. We budget a certain amount just for, and some of this we keep on the books and some of it we don't worry about as far as tax return goes, but just random acts of kindness. We just run into somebody and we want to always look across the restaurant and pick up the tab for a person in uniform. You know, we always want to do that. We always want to catch somebody doing something we love and just participate in, that kind of stuff. That's just, that's low budget. It doesn't take

a lot of money, but it's, there's a lot of joy and it's a lot of fun yes yes and just you know we're our we'll look across and see one of our team members and is there with their spouse and we just end up picking up of course i charge that back to the company but um that's an hr thing but yeah i may buy their dinner if they're lucky enough to land in the same restaurant i'll land in but anyway just something like that just catch people doing something right and um and random acts of. Just catch somebody where a few hundred dollars means a lot. And I've been in those situations, and a lot of people out there have been. So you want to do that. But that's a smaller portion of dollars, but it's, like Rachel said,

it's very hands-on. There's a lot of joy in it. Random acts of kindness, we call it that. And it's just God money floating around looking for a place to land. And so then we, with the Ramsey Family Foundation, we do not give to like a bazillion different people $500 because that will drive you nuts doing the tax returns on it. So instead we pick just a few and really, really help them.

And they're always something that is close to our heart. And many times we know the people involved in the ministry. We know the character of the people involved. And the last thing I'll add to that that Rachel didn't bring up is that I learned many years ago because I was giving a lot. And we've always been outrageously generous it's part of our dna and uh it's the most fun you'll have with money so you're gonna love this i love this question but um anyway i treat large gifts uh like we're talking about as if i was doing an investment into a company if i'm going to buy into that company i'm going to know what their strengths and weaknesses are. And I'm going to make sure that I'm not participating, I'm not enabling incompetence or bad behavior of some kind.

To the extent I can tell, we don't do that. So, for instance, we don't give to organizations, ministries that run debt. Well, duh. Of course, Dave Ramsey's not going to pay a bank through a ministry no so if you're going to run debt you're not going to be on our list of donations we don't we don't believe in debt we don't borrow money we teach people not how dumb would it be for us to take our generosity and give it to a bank through your ministry because you wanted to have a building for your ministry instead of being a renter. No, be a renter. So, you know, that's one of the things.

And that upsets people sometimes. But oh, well, I don't know why. It's kind of obvious to me. But anyway, so we do stuff that is consistent with us. And we're looking for their operational excellence. Because if you're going to put X number of dollars in there you're investing it god's money into god's kingdom god expects some excellence there just like you know those that are faithful and little things will be given more to manage and so it's not the diligent prosper

not the inept and incompetent yeah and then i would also say julia and something i feel like we've learned from you guys is as you guys go down this path i know you're on baby steps you just guys just got to baby step seven but as you continue to build wealth and i'm feel like we've learned from you guys is as you guys go down this path, I know you're on baby steps. You just guys just got to baby step seven, but as you continue to build wealth and I'm talking like in the next decade or two, also with your giving, we've put ourselves in a position where we're not the largest giver, meaning that they are so dependent upon us to fund the ministry or what they're doing, because that puts you kind of in these like handcuffed positions where you feel bad that if something changes and you're like, oh yeah, we're going to give over here. Then you feel like we feel like we can't because we're disrupting such a huge part of their operating budget. And if it weren't for us, they wouldn't be here. So even from a percentage level, I would not want to be

the largest donation that they get and that they're dependent upon you to continue their ministry. Like that just puts a it puts a weird dynamic and pressure element to that too so that's something to think about that we had some friends that they ran into that and it was it just gets messy if you want to stop it then you're like oh my gosh am i closing down a ministry because i'm choosing not to give here anymore so it's just another filter to think through if you'll do what you're doing right now and be intentional about the subject of generosity, like you're intentional about the subject of getting out of debt or

you're intentional about the subject of investing, you'll do really good at it and you're going to get great joy from it. What happens with some people when they get to generosity, they just go, oh, I'm just going to give it. And it's up to god to figure it out and like no no god gave it to you to manage and so it's not up to god to figure it out so i think that person is going to misuse the money but it's going to be between them and god no no that's not how it works you need to be a grown-up you can't be lazy on the generosity and really hardcore on the investing so um again you don't want to take the joy out of it, and you don't want to turn it into a bureaucratic nightmare every time you give $2.

And that's why I like, you know, the setup of having kind of those three buckets, the tithe, the organizational that you know, and then just a little bit of that mind that we're talking about that you just have throughout the month that you're like, I just am going to be aware of people around me, and when I feel this prompting, like, I get to bless them in that moment.

It's kind of those three buckets that I like. That one ends up being dollar for dollar, by far my favorite. Oh, it is like... But it's impossible to do that at scale as an individual. It's very hard. It'd be like your full-time job. That's all you did? You'd be like that guy on YouTube. That's a fun job.

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I know what the road looks like, so I can show you. And that's what this is. Build a business you love. Thanks for hanging out with us. Sue is in Lexington, Kentucky. How are you, Sue? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

Well, okay, so I'm 65 years old. I only have $41,000 in retirement. I went through breast cancer. Sue, I'm having a real problem with your phone. Can you walk to a different place, please? It's breaking up on us. Or take it off speaker if it's on speaker. That helps. It's not on speaker. Is that better?

A little bit. Let's try again. You're how old? I'm 65. Okay. I'm going to put you on hold, hon, and they're going to pick up, and we're going to try to get you worked out so we can get you back on and understand you.

I apologize. Bell is in Denver. Hi, Bell bell welcome to the ramsey show hi so nice to talk to you guys you too what's up so we bought a home in may of 2023 and my biggest goal has been to just pay off our home um i took your class when i was in high school so about seven years ago and it's stuck with me ever since um we are only twenty thousand dollars away from paying it off yay and i should be able to make that payment next month how old are you guys 25 i'm I'm 24 and my husband's 31. Look at you. What's the house worth? We bought it for $340,000 and we had to do stuff to it, but it should be worth close to $500,000.

So high school teachers, this is what happens when you teach this stuff in high school. This is your student. she's now 25 and she's got a half million dollar house that's 20 000 away from me i paid for you're amazing 24 years old way to go cool bell i love it you know how weird you are right yeah how much do you guys make a year bell do what how much do you guys make a year, Belle? Do what? How much do you guys make a year? It really varies. Like right now we're sitting at $200 to $280,

depending on our situation that we're in. Good for you guys. That's awesome. We're in a really unique situation. Like we're contractors for the state, and it just depends on like how busy we are. Well, congratulations. Okay. I'm fast-forwarding past bragging on you. What's your question? How can we help? doctors for the state and it just depends on like how busy we are well congratulations okay a fast forwarding past bragging on you what's your question how can we help

um so i remember in the class that i took in high school it was talking about mutual funds and if you start earlier it's better long term than someone who starts later with the bigger initial investment. And I remember having a job. I was working at Wendy's at the time, and I was like, okay, I'm going to start doing this when I'm 17. And I asked the teacher, how do I do this? What mutual funds do I look into? She was just like, I don't know. I'm like, you don't do this when you're a teacher.

You're making $50,000 a year. Why don't you do this? Because she's sitting down. Yeah. Unfortunately, she didn't have any resources for me. And I'm still in that place that I was when I was 17. And I still don't know what to do with it. We're going to have a lot of extra money once the house is paid off.

Okay. Rule number one investing is go slow. Okay. what to do with we're going to have a lot of extra money once the house is paid off okay rule number one investing is go slow okay rule number two is don't put money in anything you don't understand see rule number one go slow until you understand it don't put money in something until you understand it so this phone call means you're very wise. Congratulations. You're trying to resource some knowledge so that you know what to do. Very good, Sue.

And then what I would tell you to do is very simple. I want you to go to RamseySolutions.com today and click on SmartVestor to find some of the mutual fund brokers that we recommend that we have vetted. And here's what you're looking for. We have vetted them for being experts and for having the heart of a teacher. I want you to meet with two of them or more and find someone that teaches you something. You may connect emotionally, relationally with one more than another one, and that's the one you're looking for. You don't want someone that tells you what to do with your money. And some people in the financial world are so stupid, they think that's what they're supposed to do.

They drop their glasses down on the end of their nose and speak down to you. If anyone ever does that around the subject of money, get away from them. Your job is to understand. Go slow. Understand before you invest. And so you're meeting with a smart investor pro not to have them tell you what to do with your money, but to have them teach you how mutual funds work, how to select them, and then based on that teaching, here's some we might look at.

And then you would buy some if you understand them and you look at them and you understand what you've learned the good news is it's not really that complicated okay i mean like you're going to sit down in an hour you're going to have a real basic understanding and feel very confident and pretty competent about doing your first series of investments and go ahead and do it now before you get the house paid off because you want to interview these people. You're going to be spending the next decade with them if you want to. And just from a high level, Bell,

what we teach is 15% of your income going into retirement. So I know exactly the chart that you took. It was probably the Blake and Jack that shows you compound interest if you invest at 19 all the way to 65 versus someone that starts at 32 and invests to 65. And so what that is showing is compound interest, which you're going to get when you invest in things like mutual funds. But you're going to do that within, first and foremost, retirement type funds. So a Roth IRA or a 401k or you guys work for the government so maybe like a 403b situation but 15% of your income should be going into retirement specific funds

within those types of funds of course there will be mutual funds and all of that of how you're actually investing but a smart investor pro can walk through and be very specific with your situation too which is helpful. But just know retirement is the one place you're going to be looking. So Roth IRAs, 403Bs, all of that, it's going to be really your first step into the process. But congrats, Bill. It's awesome. Go slow enough to understand it before you do it. It's your job to manage your money. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like,

hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George. Sketchy and never trust them. And that's why we recommend Delete.me. They help with that. Yeah, they do. Delete.me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites, and it is an incredible service that everyone needs.

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. I love these reports. So far, get this, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts,

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Hey, Sue. Can you hear me now? Yes. Can you hear me? Absolutely. That's much better. Thank you. Wonderful.

No problem. OK, so I am 65 years old. I plan to work at least five more years because I only have 41,000 in my retirement account. I have 40,000 plus, give or take, of debt, which I impulsively let a debt relief company take over for me. I realize now that was a mistake. And that should be resolved within three years of making payments to them. I also own a home. I mean, I still owe $88,000 on my home. So I'm wondering if when I become eligible for Social Security in a year and a half, should I, and I'm going to continue working should i then just try to get my house paid off double double triple my mortgage payments once my debt is gone obviously just so that when i do stop working and i have to live on the small retirement that i have

and my social security at least i won't have a house payment is that the smartest way to go it's not bad um you're debt free at that point and um what do you make uh with my side hustle combined it's between 80 and 90 just depends on the year okay all right well what we would normally suggest is get out of debt first with the 40 000,000, which is what you're doing. And I want you to accelerate that and do it faster than you're planning. Okay. I want you to live on beans and rice. And let's do this in two years instead of three. Start trying to figure out what would have to be true for me to do that. What would I have to get rid of? What would I have to do this? How much do you owe in your car? My car is 13 years old. A car is not the problem.

Okay, what's the $40,000 in debt? What was that on? An accumulation. I had cancer a few years ago and basically was out of work and had to live on credit cards here and there, and it just added up and interest took over. So most of it's credit cards? Yes, $40,000 is credit card. It's all credit cards. Oh most of it's credit cards? Yes.

$40,000 is credit card. It's all credit cards. Oh, it's all credit cards. Okay. But it's all with that. Well, here's what I want you to do. I want you to work the debt consolidation company. I wish you weren't there, but you're there now. I want you to have them call. I want you to save up piles of money and have them call the small one and see

if they'll take a deal. Okay. Like 50% off or something. And then knock them out. Okay. And then save up some money and knock the next one out. Yeah. And if they won't call them and offer them that, you call them and offer them that. So can I do that?

Can I take it back from them? You don't have to take it back. You can just call them. Okay. It's your debt. They'll always talk to you right but does that mean i'll still owe the relief company no i mean you owe the debt relief company anyway you prepaid them they took all their money up front no i'm i'm paying them a thousand dollars

a month to so i have you're gonna pay $1,000 a month for 36 months. That's $36,000. Well, that's handling one debt. I have other debt that they haven't... The small ones, they haven't touched yet. Did you hear me? You're going to pay them $1,000 a month for 36 months. That's $36,000.

You only owe $40,000. Right. The other small credit cards they aren't they haven't turned oh honey thirty six thousand dollars will pay off your debt oh you're not paying them that in fees you're paying them that in total yes and they're paying your debt yeah okay so you can save up the thousand dollars is not their fees so you pay the thousand anyway and you call up the smallest one if they won't do it and you offer them 50 cents on the

dollar when you've got a little cash saved okay well anyway that's how that's how we can accelerate then back to your question i want you to say 15 of a hundred thousand i want you to say 15 thousand dollars a year into retirement as soon as the debt is paid off after the debt's paid off while you put everything else you can find on the house but don't pay any extra on the house until the debt is gone. Don't put anything into retirement until the debt is gone. Once that $40,000 is gone, then the first thing we're going to do is put 15% into retirement, and everything else we can scrape together goes on to the house. Okay, so I have a question about the retirement.

If I'm 65, are there rules around how much you can put into a 401k? No. Or do I have to do it in an IRA? you can put into a 401k? No. Or do I have to do it in an IRA? You can put as much as you want to put in. And as much as anybody else can put in. You can do catch-up contributions, too. You can do even more, but you don't need to do more. You just need to do $15,000 until you get your house paid off.

So what you're looking for, though, is you are looking for a Roth. A Roth, okay. Roth IRA, Roth 401k. That's what I want you to do, but none of this until you're out of debt. Then 15% and the rest of it towards the house. And here's the good news. I think you're going to have all this done like by 71, it sounds like, if you do what we just talked about. And so you have a paid for house and you're sitting with 100, 150,000 bucks and you got social security, not the

best of all worlds, but a whole lot better than some people we talk to. For sure. Hope that helps you. Yeah, that's the right way to go. Well done. Very well done. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. When the payment on your defaulted private student loan is as much as some mortgages,

it's hard to get ahead. That's when YRefi can help. Refinancing to a low fixed rate loan built just for you. Find out more at YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Greg in New York. He said, how is it considered ethical for people to own so many houses? I'm just wondering how, as a Christian, this isn't seen as greed. Don't you know that buying up all these homes is what's causing the housing shortage? You know what? Well, actually, Greg, let's just start with not the spiritual part, but your economic understanding. That's

not what's causing the housing shortage. Investors buying up houses is not causing the housing shortage. Okay. Period. So you're just wrong now. Now that is it. Can we, can we stay on that for just a second? Cause that is a thing going around that these massive hedge funds or blackstone, like all these, they're coming in.

They are, but they don't have a soul. That's okay. So hedge funds don't have a soul. Yeah's right. Okay. Hedge funds don't have a soul. So, because an individual investor, right, for the average person out there who has maybe two or three rental homes, right, they're on baby steps and they're doing it. They're not causing the pain. But Blackstone, yeah, those guys are buying up houses. That's true.

And is that affecting the housing market at all? Because that is. It probably is to some extent, but not as much as TikTok says it is. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you really don't want your economic lessons on tiktok i'll just help you with that in general but um but anyway you're on tiktok though i know but that that just proves that i'm lacking in judgment but um yeah so anyway the uh uh yeah that's the thing now you, you know, I own, I don't know, I don't even know, 15, 20 houses and a bunch of commercial real estate as well. How is that not greed?

Because I don't own anything, Greg. I'm a Christian, and that means God owns it, and I'm managing it for him. So I guess you're calling God greedy now. Okay. owns it and I'm managing it for him so I guess you're calling God greedy now okay so devil's advocate what would you say if Greg was like well Dave why do you need so many houses why don't you just give all that extra money away managing money for God that's my job well and I've done a good job I've done better job than Greg has done and and that's why he thinks I'm greedy well this mindset so this is an extreme right of you know 20 houses thing but this is the same logic of well is it greedy to have more in your retirement than maybe you may not need right like listen if you got three bathrooms you have three more than

most people in the world why are you not greedy if you have two cars you have two cars more than most people in the world if you make 38 000 a year you're in the top one percent of income earners in the world how are you not greedy because amounts don't create greed greed is a spirit it is not an amount. And, you know, if you want to be a communist, just be a communist. Don't try to blame Christianity for it. Okay? If you want to be a socialist, just be a socialist. Don't try to blame Christianity for it.

That's a form of heresy called Gnosticism that believes that the material is bad, and anyone that has the material, their soul is in jeopardy. The Gnostics taught that in the first century. They were heretics. So if you want to do a little theological rabbit hole, we can do that. I love the rabbit holes, Dave. No, that's good.

I think that's it, though. Greed is not an amount. It's a spirit. That's it. That's it. And so hoarding is not an amount. It's a spirit. That's it. That's it. And so hoarding is not an amount. The difference in saving and hoarding is intent. It's not the thing.

You know, I have a collection of water skis, but I don't worship them. You know, they're stinking water skis, antique water skis on the wall. That's it. But that's not hoarding. It's a collection because it's about the intent. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today, number one best-selling author, and my daughter, Bobbi, is with us in Chicago. Hey, Bobbi, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thanks for having me. Sure sure man, what's up? So I'm 29 years old and back in 2023, after a harsh talk with my wife to manage her spending, we made the decision to get out of debt and we achieved that. And 2025 was going to be our year that we were house shopping and going to buy our first house. And about a month and a half ago, I got a statement in the mail for some credit cards

and found that my wife has pulled about three new credit cards in, has maxed them out, and we've now accumulated some new debt. She's always had a bit of a spending problem, and I thought we got through it, and we were pretty happy being debt-free. Just not quite sure how we have this conversation again and how to make this stick and be on the journey of being debt-free and managing our money. How much debt on the three cards? From zero, we've now accumulated a little over $3,000. Okay.

And when you said, hey, I thought we were getting out of debt and saving for a house, and you ran up credit cards, and you knew I hated debt, and we had worked to get out of debt, and you did this, and didn't tell me, what did she say? Well, she's pretty embarrassed but defensive. Her mother stole her identity at a very young age and uh she's never had great finances we've did a lot to get her out of debt from that there was accumulated as she was eight years old with tv uh utility bills cable bills all done by her mother uh but we did a lot to do that and she doesn't want to all done by her mother. But we did a lot to do that, and she doesn't want to end up like her mother.

How old is she? She's 30 now. Okay. How old are you? 29. And how long have you been married? Eight years. Okay.

All right. I'll give you an observation of what I think I heard you saying, and I want to play it back to you, okay? I think you were using the words we and our when it was only you. I wanted to get out of debt, so I talked to her about her spending, and I got us out of debt so that I could buy us a house I don't think she was involved in any of this emotionally I don't think she agreed with the decision I think she went along with it because she's embarrassed and shamed about her handling of money but I don't think as a grown-up she stood up and said I'm going to join hands with

you and we are going to hit these goals instead I think you she's been treated like a little girl again by you that's the language you were using and i'm going to play it back to you did you hear that yes i did absolutely yeah and you know when he said or when you said bobby um you know i i had to have a harsh conversation with her about it and so so yeah so i think i think the the the real question is, number one, kind of what Dave was just proposing of, okay, so looking back now, at the whole journey, and what you guys have walked through the last few years with money, you know, how, how has she been through that? And obviously not very on board. Or she has some some major issues and and honestly the whole spending addiction world has really exploded in the like even more recent because of how easily it is to have access

so whether it's to credit cards or you know shopping online all of it just like gambling addiction has gone up with sports betting and all of it. So there's such this environment, Bobby, that she's having to honestly fight a bigger battle now today in 2025 than even in previous generations. So my question would be to her is, what's going on with her? What is it that's causing this to happen? Because we see it all the time that there is levels of is, you know, levels of, of really deep pain and the medicator is the spending. And so I'm curious. And with the, her backstory of her mom and not trusting fully the adult in her life and the

adult in her life used her completely and stole her identity to mismanage money on top of that, right? Like there's a lot there for her. And so does she recognize any of that or is any of that right like there's a lot there for her and so does she recognize any of that or is any of that in the conversation yes uh you know we we sat down early on when we wanted to buy a car together and you would like to finance something and she didn't know anything about credit and all that and that's where it was found and she was very upset by that and it came as far as she was actually arrested on felony charges for deceptive practice for a bad check written by her mother and luckily found not guilty and that's where the changing point in our lives were to get out of that. How long ago was all that? My debt, her debt. How long ago was that? How long ago was that check thing?

The check was made when she was 18, still in college. I mean, when did this charge come? Charge came in 2021. Four years ago. Yeah. Okay, so this is four years in the past and apparently we've gotten mom off the the stealing pattern mom's not stealing her identity anymore at least as far as we know right no we're completely locked down with our identities good okay so all of that's in

the past she didn't do anything wrong there she was a victim there then that changes gears when she runs up debt in contrast to what you guys have talked about and so um rachel's right it could be an addictive behavior could be coming out of pain it could be coming out of you just controlled everything and she didn't have a vote and this was her only way to have a vote so she just ran off and did whatever the flip she wanted to do because you tell her everything to do and she doesn't you know she's saying her little girl's saying you're not the boss of me i'll show you and sometimes people react that way too so because i think you told her what to do i don't think you got agreement there's a difference would you agree with that bobby um i i absolutely agree in a half and half scenario i know i can have that

kind of tendency uh you have on the phone with us yes okay we heard it that's why that's where it's coming from i'm not being mean to you. I'm just saying that, you know, there's a difference in getting people to buy into a vision and go forward. That's leadership. There's a difference in a leader and a boss. A boss is a guy who cattle prod and tells you what to do. It's a stick and no carrot. And that's in business, but it's also in ministry. It's also in your marriage. And so versus getting, I'm going to to get collaboration we're both going to sit down and talk about the pluses and minuses of debt we're going to get we agree we're going to get out of debt because it's the fastest way to build wealth we agree we're going to get out of debt because we we want to buy a house not bobby wants to buy a house and he told her what to do so it could happen i kind of think that's what happened dave so i'm

not blaming you for this. She shouldn't have lied. She shouldn't have deceived you under any circumstances. That's wrong. And so you guys probably need to sit down with a good marriage counselor, ask them about a possibility of a spending addiction. But also let's get some different patterns to get agreement and sell a vision for the future. The Bible says where there is no vision, the people perish. Let's both buy into where we want to go, not where you tell her we're going. There's a difference. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those,

especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud.

And you got to say, I'm going to say, I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Well, take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you.

Simply head to the show notes and click in the link titled, Are You On Track With The Baby Steps? Take a quick quiz and we'll tell you exactly where you are. Oh, and we'll start to tell you what some of your next steps are. Riley is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Riley. Welcome to The Ramsey Show Hi, thank you for having me So here's my question

What a budget of $20,000 be unreasonable as a college student A budget for what? For $20,000 $20,000 to do what? To get married To have a wedding

Oh, your wedding budget Oh, a wedding. Oh, your wedding budget. Yes. Oh, cool. Oh, well, congratulations. Yeah, when are you getting married? We're hoping to get married by 2027. We kind of have to be stationed together as naval officers since we're both commissioning after 2028.

All right. So you got like two years? Yes. But you guys are in college, so you're thinking about getting married after or something? So we have to get married right before we graduate, since we're both in NROTC. Our requirement is that we commission straight out of graduation.

And you graduate May of 27 yes so we have to be married that summer because it'd be kind of hard to plan um a wedding when we're away from home sure okay yeah and i was just wondering what the why you guys are waiting but you're in school so you're going to wait till you're toward the end of school yes that's right so basically two years okay and uh while you're in school, so you're going to wait until you're toward the end of school. Yes, that's right. So basically two years. Okay. And while you're in school, are you earning an income? We are. He's earning more than I am.

I'm currently just getting a stipend, so that's about $250 a month. It'll increase slowly, so by my senior year, I'll be getting $400 a month. He's getting that as well and working. I think his annual income, he's trying to hit under 15,000 just so that he can stay under a certain tax. Are you guys paying for the wedding? Yes. So him and I will be paying for the wedding, but my parents are going to be giving another 5k, um, by the time I get to my junior year. Will you guys have $20,000 saved?

Oh, absolutely. Currently we both have, um, combined a little over 30,000. Saved. Like total. Where'd you get that? Not just for the wedding. The numbers you gave me don't equal that. Where'd you get that just for the wedding the numbers you gave me don't equal that where'd you get that money uh so uh that's just from savings like throughout life time lifetime i'm a huge saver um okay so i baby so you have 20 you have 30 000 saved today

which is your total life savings um you're going to add a little bit to that, but you're not making much money. I mean, you're making $3,000 or $4,000 a year for two years, okay, and you're eating during that time. So, you know, you're not going to do a bunch of addition to this $30,000. So the answer to your question is, is $20,000 too much to spend on a wedding? The answer is no. Their answer is always relative to,

if you've got $200,000 and you make $300,000 a year, $20,000 wedding is perfectly reasonable. If you have $30,000 to your name and you're going to spend two-thirds of your net worth on your wedding, that's probably too much. What's going to be your income when both of you come out as commissioned officers? We'll both be making about straight out I think it's about $90,000. Each? Yes. Okay good okay so now we're talking about somebody making $180,000 a year, fresh out of school, and they've got $30,000 to their name. Do they spend $20,000 of that on the wedding?

But the good news is you're used to living on nothing, and so you could probably save $20,000 in three months once you're making $180,000. Agreed? Yes. That's $15,000 a month. Follow me? Yeah. 180 agreed yes that's 15 000 a month follow me so yeah i mean what i would say is this okay the the average house the average wedding in america today is 28 000 average household income 78 000 so it's about a third of your income is the average is one way of measuring it that's the average now do you want to be above average, below average on your spending? That's up to you.

Anywhere in there. Pay cash, number one. Just listening to your story, I think I would say, yes, I'm going to have a $20,000 wedding, but I'm going to do it with new money that I make after graduation. Well, they have to get married before graduation is what she's saying. Before you have any income. Is that right, Riley did say that you did i'm lost okay my plan just fell apart um okay so riley here's a question i don't know just trying to get creative here

could you guys go get married have your family have a great fun dinner out and that be the quote-unquote marriage right you're you got married and then six months later are you you guys be stationed away i'm just trying to think like is there a way to do a really beautiful nice wedding that you really want a celebration yeah and it be and it be a few months later and and that's what i thought as well the only concern is we have no clue of knowing our timeline so it could if we do that, we could get married by chance three years later, depending on both of our deployments. Yeah. Oh, like having the wedding, because you guys could be deployed pretty quickly.

Yes. Yeah. I hear what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But if you're married, do they separate you on deployment? So our deployments could be at different times. They try to keep us on the same base, but since we're both college students and under the program, there is a chance that for a year or two that we would be on different bases. Okay. All right. But we're trying to prevent it as quick as possible. Well, thanks for your service to the country.

Okay. If you spend $20,000 and you have $30,000 and you have basically no income and you get married and two months later you start making $180,000 and you and you have 30,000 and you have basically no income and you get married and two months later you start making 180,000 a year That is dangerous, but it's not completely suicidal because it you're spending most all of your money and you don't have any money you follow me Yeah, but you're getting ready to start this huge income Unless something really goes sideways so yeah that's the i would not spend a dollar more than that and i would push that as close to my 180 000 income starting as is reasonable

okay i realize you got to do it before the income starts right yes sir okay but i want to push it right up next to it because i don't want the gap between you having ten thousand dollars and sitting around you only have ten thousand dollars left you're married and it's six months later and you still got no income we don't want that game that's a bad game you follow me yes sir okay that's what we're looking for i just i just don't want you living on the edge kiddo life's too short i agree you know that just don't want you living on the edge, kiddo. Life's too short. I agree. You know. That was why I called. You're a saver.

You don't want to live on the edge. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, like, if you guys get, if you do the wedding in June and you graduate and your income starts in July or August, I'm fine with that. You follow me? I'm not fine. I don't love it, but at least you're not completely stinking broke.

You don't have four kids and you're trying to keep a household running. You guys can do it. Yeah, and then you guys got a pinky swear and spit shake with each other. We're not doing nothing until we build up a big old emergency fund, because I assume you have zero debt, right? Yeah, absolutely no debt. Okay, I started this whole conversation with that assumption. But, yeah, I think you're on track.

And here's the good news, Riley. You're going to be okay because you're thinking about it and because you're a saver, which means you're concerned about overextending because your nature is that. Where Rachel is a spender, I'm a spender. Our nature is, woo-hoo, let's go buy it. And we have to guard against that nature to be wise uh and not not not get up over our skis you know and fall on our face so i think because you're asking the question that that tells me you're probably going to be okay because you're a saver you're probably going

to be okay if your fiancee is on board with those two things and i'll say this too that the income is pretty guaranteed it's not like Oh we're going into sales And I think we're going To be making X, Y, and Z Like it's a You know the salary Ahead of time Yeah

It's laid out Pretty black and white You know what's going on So that You're moving straight Into the obstacle Yeah that predictability Is helpful in the scenario

Too Riley So that's great Sharp young people Serving their country I know Thank you guys so much For that Very cool

And congrats Have fun planning it And everything It's going to be fun It's. Very cool. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So, if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance. Christian Healthcare Ministries.

CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget at chministries.org slash budget. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions is the debt-free stage. And if you're standing on it, it usually means one thing, that you're debt-free.

And that's where Patrick and Chelsea are. Hey, guys, how are you? Doing great. Hey, Dave. How are you? Welcome. Where do you all live? Louisville, Kentucky.

All right. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $250,000. All right. Oh, man. How long debt have you two paid off? $250,000. All right how long did that take? Just over five years. Good for you and your range of income during that time? Started around $150,000 and up to $280,000. Good for you. What do y'all do for a living? We're small business owners. We own a franchise, a security franchise and we just started a consulting business on the side. Very good so you're killing it yes congratulations well done so five years 250,000

did you guys pay off your house we did a couple of weirdos i love it how old are you two i'm 39 and i'm 37 all right mid 30s late 30s i like it what's this house worth uh probably about 550 good for you and how much in your retirement accounts 360 okay bumping up on me and well you own a business too so you are millionaires yes baby step millionaires way to go guys and you're not even 40 that was our goal i love it well done okay how does this story start? How in the world do two people like you become weirdos by the time you're 40? Well done. Well, so we've always kind of lived by your principles, avoided consumer debt.

When we started our business, I had the same mindset, you know, stay away from debt as much as we can. We moved cross-country from San Diego from my previous job in federal law enforcement, started our security company from scratch, working long days, long hours. I think it was seven months in the beginning where I didn't have a day off. She's at home with the kids just fully supporting us. And, yeah, we make a great team, and we're so thankful for the position we're in now. Man. So security as in, like, alarm systems and cameras? More security guards, you know, for apartment complexes, Walmarts, that kind of thing.

Oh, okay. So you're utilizing your law enforcement background. Yes. Okay, I got you. So smart. So smart. Oh, very good. Yeah, that's a big deal.

Yeah. Recession resistant is like what we like to call it. What'd you say? Recession resistant. Ah. Definitely. So good. So good.

Actually, recession can cause it. Yeah. That's true. That's fun. How many kids do you guys have we have two okay how old are they luke is five and ryan is three okay they're keeping us young man so you had babies during kind of all of this i mean at least the second one during this process yeah starting a business and leaning on the debt no stress yep yeah no stress no big deal no big deal just lean in for five years get it done get it done well done so how did you connect up to this ramsey stuff so we've listened to the show for years i've always like i said live kind of by the principles um no

consumer debt we just really wanted to get rid of this mortgage as fast as we can i hated seeing the amount of interest that we're sending to the bank just for them to you know lend us some money so our goal was to pay it off by 40 and we achieved it by a little over a year so uh it was great to set that goal yeah i'm a little closer she's got three years by the time he got old yeah okay good so where'd you come from in california san diego huh okay so when you move to Louisville and you buy this house you had to go oh this is so cheap right I could pay this off that had to be part of the emotion yeah the the difference in the real estate markets are pretty significant obviously our house has gone up a little bit since uh you know 2020 and in the last few years but um yeah the the just being able to pay off the the loan where we have no is just, there's so much peace behind that.

We love it. The grass feels different. It does feel different. And the other thing, small business people are the only ones that grasp this because you're in sales every day. And you have, you know, the weight is off your shoulders and you suddenly start making different and better business decisions. Because, you know, when you're early in business, you'll take any client. And now the problem clients, you're like,

yeah, I think you need to go see my competitor. You're high maintenance. I think I'll let you work for somebody else. Yeah. You're not as desperate when everything's done. You end up making more money because everything's just peaceful. And, you know, it it's a weird thing so way to go you guys i'm so proud of you well done you guys okay so in this process because you guys started with no i mean i think no

consumer debt anyways because you guys have been following this for a while so when the five years kind of began was it that hey we're making more money we're just not going to increase lifestyle and we're throwing extra at it like what was your plan of action for people listening that are like, OK, that's our next big step? Did you feel like you were still intense or do you feel like, no, we were able to live and breathe, but we just didn't up our lifestyle majorly? What did that look like for you guys? I'd say we did increase our lifestyle some, but not nearly as much as we could have. And I mean, we also finished our basement. We had a new roof that we put on the house.

So lots of expenses that you know we were still having to you know live but we didn't really have extravagant lifestyle we did take a nice trip when we finally did pay off the house so we went to the maldives so that was uh that was our celebration trip um but yeah we've we're just thankful to be able to be able to be in this position well you're making uh 150 to 280 and you average 50 000 a year for five years so you you were able to do some stuff there's wiggle room in there yeah yeah that's the proper in this position. You're making $150,000 to $280,000 and you average $50,000 a year for five years. So you were able to do some stuff. There's wiggle room in that.

That's the proper way to do it. So very well done. Who was cheering you on? Anybody? Yeah, I would say our friends and family have always been huge cheerleaders and each other.

Working together is not for everyone, married couples, but I feel like we make a great team and we kind of offset each other and uh yeah we we've been I've when he started he worked seven months straight like you said no days off no he worked nights he worked during the day during doing sales and I just was tried to be there to be the the grounding person um because I also had a full-time

job so I was also supporting us with my full-time job. So yeah, we cheer each other on too. Yeah, well done, well done. So good. So what do you tell people that are listening? What's the key to being almost 40 years old? You now have a paid for home. It's worth 550 and zero debt of any kind.

And including the value of your business have a net worth well in excess of a million dollars. What do you tell people the key to doing that by 40 is? I would say just do something. You know, get control of the person behind the mirror because the person in the mirror, you know, most of it's your behavior. And if you can get control and spend less than you make, you know, get on a written budget you know you can you can set goals and achieve them sooner than you think yeah and of course discipline just being um being living living like you like no one else like you like you say we we always we always kind of repeat that to each other like we we want to live like no one else so that later we can live and give like no one else and here you stand yeah you did it

wow how's it feel to not have a payment in the world it's amazing it feels great you know it feels great yeah a side note so you always talk about how the grass feels different you know walk through your grass barefoot so the day that you know we made the final payment on the house i decided i'm gonna walk through the grass barefoot you actually did it i did we we did get 10 inches of snow on that day so i'm doing it i'm doing it yeah so after i shoveled the driveway i took off my boots and went for a quick little brisk walk in the grass in the snow in the snow it did feel different for sure yeah because it's cold wow that's hilarious you could have waited until spring man really no it's not like an intense cold we were tired for that moment that's right

oh man across coals here good job man that's fun well done very proud of you guys you're excellent excellent weirdos very cool cool. All right. Patrick and Chelsea, not even 40, along with Luke and Brian, whose family tree has been completely changed. Are they here? Oh, they're here. They're here. Oh, they're with us. I didn't see them.

I didn't know they were here. Oh, buddy. Look at them. Oh, man. How great. Oh, you guys. These guys have no idea how great their life is because their mom and dad are heroes. You completely changed everything for them and those grandkids that'll come from them excellent stuff very good stuff patrick and chelsea

luke and ryan louisville kentucky 250 000 paid off house and everything in five years now with a net worth in excess of a million dollars baby step millionaires at 3939.37. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! They did it. I heard Luke.

Luke did good. I love it. He's ready, man. Oh, so sweet. It's great. So good it. He's ready, man. Oh, so sweet. It's great. So good. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Investing. When I say the word, some of you are immediately intimidated. Dave, I can't invest. I don't know what that even means. It scares me. Oh, I understand. And the good news is it's not as complicated as some of the goobers in the financial world make it sound.

It's as if they need to use $10 words so they can charge you a commission. So we teach investing where everyone can understand it and do it because everyone should understand it and do it. And we're going to go even deeper for you super nerds. We're going to do our Investing Essential essentials virtual event march 4th and 5th next week tickets start at night 199 now this is two nights it's a two-night event the first night is several hours a couple of hours plus on investing of all kinds the second night we're going to comment or we're going to teach primarily on real estate. And I'm going to open up how I've learned to do real estate investing in detail, and it is Nerdville. If you're having

trouble sleeping, you'll not have any trouble after this. I'll put you straight to sleep. It's really Nerdville. But if you nerd out on this stuff like I do, if you like doing the spreadsheets and the math and so forth, you will love this event, Investing Essentials. Both nights are going to be where everybody can understand it. I'm kidding around, but it's really stuff I don't get into much. It's only the second time I've ever taught this much depth on real estate investing. And I own several hundred million dollars worth of real estate. So several hundred million dollars worth. So we're going to get into that. It's not a theory. I actually freaking do this stuff, okay? And I'm not teaching you to do something and then I go do something different. This is what I do and then you can do it or not

do it. It's up to you. So get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash events and click the link in the show notes if you're tuning in on podcast or youtube this is a great you guys did this event last year and it and it's the only time we've ever done it was last year they loved it loved it so honestly it really is it's a it's a great deep dive into the subject so george camel is like he's nerding out from now on he is this is like this is like his uh his special spiritual gift it's like his hobby it's what he likes to do. George, get a life. He is really enjoying this. It's really good.

It's fun. His part will probably be better than mine, but it's pretty incredible. All right. Sarah's in Philadelphia. Hi, Sarah. How are you? I'm good. How are you guys?

Better than I deserve. How can we help? Okay. So I fell for the lovely money trap of taking out a lot of student loans. And I had $85,000 in my name and $50,000 through Parents Plus Loans through my parents. Now, I did tell my parents, of course, I would help them pay off whatever they put into their name. So I've been working really hard for the past eight years, and I paid off all of the student loans that were in my name. So I have no debt legally in my name.

But when I went to tell my parents about it, like, hey, I know I've been throwing money at you guys for this every month, but I'm really going to start to focus on it. They kind of told me that they combined my loans and my siblings' Parent PLUS loans that they took out for them into one big student loans pot. So I'm kind of, I was kind of shocked that they said that because I've been paying towards it and instead of paying towards mine i've kind of been paying towards everybody no now i'm like no no no i'm at a point where like i don't know what to do you did not make an obligation okay number one stop number one you don't have any legal obligation at all you do have a moral obligation because you promised

to pay your part but you did you promised to pay your part, but you did not promise to pay your siblings part, correct? Correct. Okay, so how old are you? I'm 29. Okay, how much have you paid towards the loan that your parents have? I've paid almost the full amount of it, the four interest I've been giving them a thousand dollars a month for like eight almost eight years okay all right a thousand dollars a month for

eight years is that what you said yeah okay so why would a sixty,000 loan not be gone? The interest rates were high. What were the interest rates? They were at like 7% to 8% per loan, and it was two different loans. Is the $1,000 a month steady for eight years? Yes. Yes, that's correct. And you know what the original balance was, right? Yeah.

Okay. All right. And you know what the original balance was, right? Yeah. Okay. All right. And you're how old again? 29. Okay. Are you married? No. Okay.

Do you have an investment advisor? No. Okay. All right. Because it's a simple math. It's a financial calculator. I don't have one laying in front of me. I could almost do it on the air but probably not um but we could simply say all right sixty thousand dollars

at seven percent and a thousand dollars on that what would be the remaining balance after eight years i think it's going to be zero i know it's coming pretty close which is why i mentioned it like and so i don't know i don't owe you anymore mom and dad i've fulfilled my obligation how did they respond sarah because they know how much you've been paying and and yeah did they say oh yeah yeah your term's almost up or like what you've given us or was it pushed back to you they kind of just like dropped the bombshell like oh well this happened you know like to make our the payment slower slower, a few years ago we... It doesn't matter. Yeah, but did they acknowledge the amount of money you've already paid them?

They did, but now it's like they're treating it like it's different. Like a one big loan, yeah. Okay, so that's a relationship issue. So, Mom and Dad, here's the deal. I did not promise to pay anyone else's loans. I promised to pay mine. Mine was $60,000 at 7%, And with $1,000 a month for eight years, the remaining balance would be zero or would be X. And so I have $2,600 more to go.

And then I'm not paying you anymore. I've met my obligation to you. The fact that you chose to consolidate it for a smaller debt and my brother has chose not to pay his does not affect my deal with you. Yeah, that's pretty much the exact scenario of my siblings not being able to pay theirs right now.

So you just need to get real clear. Number one, you need to get the exact math done. And I can't do that for you right now. And have it visual. Have it on a sheet of paper. Like, here's exactly. Go online, and you can print it out.

Okay? You can just go online and find a calculator online and put in 7%, $60,000, and $1,000 a month for eight years, and what is the balance? And you can do it online in in probably about 45 seconds if i was smart i could do it right now but i'm not so i used to keep a financial calculator here on the desk in the old days but it's i think your balance is going to be zero because you're going to be up over 90 000 you've paid in including interest that should be at zero, okay? Because we're talking about 45, yeah, 96 months that you paid in, about $96,000 you paid in, and 7% interest. So you probably have overpaid, but I wouldn't worry about it

if you've overpaid relationally. But I would just say I paid in $96,000, including interest. That means I don't owe any more. Sorry, Mom and Dad. The rest of it's on you and bro. I did my part. I did my part. But you can use actual math and show it to them.

And please say bro. Yeah. Just since I made a bad dad joke. No, it's great. No, no, no. Sarah, is this going to be a hard conversation? Or do you like when you have the math and you lay everything out, do you have the type of relationship that you feel?

Are they going to understand this? How is that going to go? Oh, God. I think it's going to be a tough conversation. Oh, man. Only because, like, they've done a lot of other things for me, you know? Yeah, they changed your diaper, but you don't have to pay them for that. That's called being a parent.

Right. They fed you, but you don't have to pay them for that. That's called being a parent. So this is a mess they have made. And they're very lucky, honestly, as Parent Plus holders, that Sarah actually has paid $96,000. Because 90% of the time I take this phone call, it's the parent griping because the kid has never paid a dime after they promised they would. And they're stuck with a big old hairy Parent Plus loan.

But in this case, mom and dad are the ones that stepped in it. Well done, Sarah. And they got some on their shoe. Morally, you've done everything to the T. You don't have to do any more. You're free. I wouldn't do any more. You don't owe any more.

But run the numbers to be 100% sure. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and my daughter is my co-host today. Ashley starts this hour in Detroit. Hi, Ashley, how are you? I'm doing good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So about two years ago, I lost a baby due to malpractice, male negligence. And so I'm coming up on closing on the lawsuit, the settlement. And for the amount, it was $850, but I had to pay the lawyer. So I come up about a little over a half million dollars. And with my spouse, we are not married, but I've been with him um he's wanting majority of it but we have two different mindsets of how we are going to invest it whereas i want to invest it long term for our three children and for like retirement purposes and things like that whereas he's wanting to spend a lot of it now and we have to come up with a solution because some of it will go into our son's estate so i'm just wondering, what do you think would be a fair amount to settle that, or if you had any insight on that?

Let me make sure I understood what you said. You have three children with him on earth? Yes. And one that didn't make it? Correct. Okay. And so how long have you two been together? Ten years. Okay. And so how long have you two been together? Ten years.

Okay. And so it complicates things severely that you're not married. Why are you not married? I'm not sure. That's another problem that we're having. You've been together how long? Ten years. That's a long problem. Yes, that is. Is it you pausing this or him? No, it's more him.

He pretty much says, like, we already are married, just not, like, in the books type of deal. Like, he's really a good provider for me. I'm able to go to school for my nursing and things like that. So he's saying, like, because he provides daily, that majority of that should go to him. But I also suffered a lot of damages to my personal body during that time of losing the baby. Oh, 100%, Ashley. Oh, yeah. I'm sorry you've been through this. Horrible.

It's okay. Thank you. Well, this argument and this confusion is brought on by the fact that you're not married. Right. It's very simple. And so I don't know how to coach you on this because I would never tell you to be where you are. Correct. I would tell you to fix this immediately and say, okay, in other words, if we want to talk about what we're going to do with my $500,000,

because I think it's yours. I don't think it's got his name on it. It's right. Yeah, it is mine. Okay, if we're going to talk about what I'm going to do with my $500,000, I have three children to watch after, and I don't have a husband. Right, correct. so i think before we talk about that we're going to talk about being married now once we're married if we were

married we could say okay if we're married here's what we would talk about doing with the money but no i'm not giving this to a guy who can just leave okay okay and he doesn't he doesn't deserve it because he goes to work yeah yeah that was like another guilt like guilt tripping me into give me this because i do this which yeah which is a score keeping thing and very very very unhealthy right yes that that makes me so mad ashley yeah this is not and the fact is i want to marry you all of it you're not yeah it's not a healthy relationship would you agree okay i would agree yeah okay all right so let's do some so let's talk about doing something but set the money okay here's the interesting thing let me help you with

it this just occurred to me i was talking to a group of people this morning a group of leaders and i told them something i that we've used many, many years around here, and I've observed it, and this is an example. More money does not make people go bad. It reveals when they're bad. Okay. So like, you know, money destroyed my children. No, you had crummy children. Or you were a crummy parent.

You're a crummy parent, and you made crummy children. Yes. And so you gave them money, and now you've got a reality show on your hands. And so what's happening here is your relationship was toxic, and there were problems in it, and this big chunk of money is revealing it. It's magnifying it. And that's really good news for you and your boyfriend and your children you have the opportunity to make this family whole and correct for the first time or leave

yeah yes yeah so i you have a half million dollars i think you can finish nursing school um so uh uh and take care of your children and so forth. So I think I'm not trying to throw him out. You've got 10 years invested and three kids in this, so let's approach it trying to save it. Okay, sorry. I don't like it. No, you're mad at him. I don't disagree with you, but I'm just saying.

Okay, so here's his options. If you're my daughter and you came to me, here's what I would tell you to go say to the young man. I now have a half a million dollars. It is not yours. Okay. And this is revealing to me some of the struggles in our relationship that you think it's tit for tat that I you work and give money so I have to do this and I do this so you have to do that and

that's not how a good relationship works so we need to sit down with a good marriage counselor and talk about how our relationship can be made better and how we get married okay and and in the process of talking about that this is you talking to him in the process of talking about that this is you talking to him in the process of talking about that honey we'll discuss when we're married what we will do with our half million dollars there is not a scenario where we're not married and you get any of this okay okay now see what happens and make sure though again actually i'm protecting you in this that he doesn't turn on some weird manipulative switch suddenly and be like well that's my ticket into some of this money if i just marry her i don't know like you know what i mean like

yeah but i'm putting him with a therapist yes but see this all came about because the lawyer said he has a right because some of it goes into our son's estate. So that's what the lawyer put in his mind. Which son? The one that passed away? Yes, correct. Okay. No, he does not have a right to your son's estate.

Your son's estate has to be managed for the heirs of your son. Okay. Which would be his siblings, not his father. Okay, yep, yep, okay. And so I think you may need some more legal advice, too. Okay. I think this is exposing what was weak, and this is your opportunity to make some decisions. If you give him a big chunk of this money out of this, I predict this is going to go sideways for you. Yes, I agree. And I don't think it's healthy. And I'm not being mad at him. He

just thinks he's got this figured out. I don't like him, but I'm not mad at him. I don't think people ought to behave the way he's behaving, but I'm not mad at him. I think he's just being who he is. And I'm afraid this whole situation may have revealed that. You may end up giving him a $100,000 check because of the estate issue to go away, but he goes away then. I'm not giving him this money and control of it, and he stays in my house because I think it's revealed what's going on here. And you really need to look at this. It's not working. Ladies and gentlemen, the data on shacking up is in and it's not good. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host.

Marie is with us in San Antonio. Hi, Marie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Hi. Hi, Dave. Hi, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. So I've never heard this situation on your show. I've been listening to your show for a long time, but is there ever a point when you don't worry about little bills? And so my husband is a portfolio manager and he manages about half a billion dollars. So money is

his, that's what he knows. When he comes home, this will sound like a joke, but it's not. When he comes home, he will start turning off all the lights. He, if the TV's on and I'm not in the room, he's turning off the TV. I've been banned from buying avocados because one went bad once. And he said, I never want to see an avocado in this house again. But he's not like that with everything. But it's just over the top. At night, he'll turn the heat down to 65, and it's freezing,

and my nose is cold, and I can almost see my breath. Is that normal? It's normal to have thermostat wars in every marriage. The other part's not normal. No, Marie. No, no, no. It's just, it's, it's. Are you guys, like financially, where are you guys at?

Oh, it has a million dollars. Half our house was bought for in cash our cars are bought you know they're paying in cash they're not used cars i just got a brand new up to me a 22 super how did he grow up what was his family of origin with money well it's funny because his father grew up with a lot of money, and they had a house staff, but his mother was very frugal, and you would never know that they ever had anything. They were just. How old is your husband?

My husband is 64, and I'm 62. He's too old to still be making his mom happy. Well, his mom passed. You missed my point. Oh. A good little boy turns off all the lights and the TV and doesn't buy wasteful avocados, and he's 64, and he's still living up to her freakish savings techniques.

Oh, my gosh. I just don't know how to help him. I don't know what to do. This is not a money issue. This is an emotional and spiritual issue. He's trying to control his environment. Okay. And I know i do it too we all we all want to control the things we can control that's called being a grown-up but he's doing it to the damage of his

relationship and he's doing it to the level that it's outside the norm of uh reasonable behavior. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so the, the, the thing is you're sweet and kind, um, but there's, you're going to reach the end of this and there's going to be an avocado explosion in your house. Well,

when I, I bought one last week and I was stressed. Yeah. Like I have to eat this before he sees it. Yeah. And, and, you know, and here's the's the deal i mean here's the deal in texas you own half of the assets yeah so that includes avocados you have no reason to be stressed but so this is not this is not this is a this is a control issue and he does he's not a mean person.

No, he's not. He's not trying to be mean to you. No, it's just the scarcity mentality to the nth degree. He completely operates on the glass is half empty. And it's complete fear. Well, he's still trying to please his mother. Of whatever it is, though. Yeah, the motivation in it is very fascinating. And that's the route I want to get to with him.

Because, Marie, he's not living in freedom at all. Could you imagine being him? Could you imagine walking into a room and for decades feeling this responsibility to turn off every light or god forbid something goes bad in the fridge you know what if he was in a situation where he couldn't because it wasn't legal for him to turn off other people's lights you know I mean he's freaking out you know what I'm saying I mean it's like it's got to be distressing yes so anyway this is him and this is an interesting concept when we talk from a spiritual element marie you know we always scripture is very clear that money it can be an idol so easily and a lot of people see money as an idol when it comes to us worshiping stuff and nice cars but this is this is idolatry

in a sense it has it he has become obsessed obsessed with it yeah to the point that his actions you're multi-million are not making sense and so there's a there is a big component here for him yeah so i you know honestly i think as his wife you just sit down and say honey uh number one i'm not living like this anymore you're making my life miserable you're weird number two i do tell him that. I know. Number two, I think we need to sit down with a marriage counselor and someone who can talk to you about your obsession

with these minor little things that don't even affect our lives. You're freakish, and you're driving me nuts. Yeah. And I love you. Yeah, but he needs help. You're not mean, but you need to talk to somebody about this, or you just need to stop at somebody about this and um or you just need to stop it your choice but i think you probably ought to sit down and figure out why

it is you're doing this we're multi-millionaires i can afford a freaking avocado i can throw avocados at the dog as a ball if i want and we're not going to go broke you're fine i can buy all the avocados and dance in them in the front yard and we're not going to go broke you know it's really ridiculous you know the numbers on this and so and you know sharon and i have had to do this together as we've gone from uh broke when we got married to making a lot of money to going broke to starting over after the scars of going broke and And we have to sit down and say, okay, we can enjoy this amount of money. We can give this amount of money.

We have to almost say it out loud. If we give $100,000 to this charity, this ministry, our life doesn't change. It's okay. We're okay. We can buy an avocado. It's okay. In this scenario scenario because when

it happens relationally in a marriage too I think the hard thing for you is and something I feel like we've all learned through life you can't change people like you are not going to be able to say the right thing to him where the light goes on and he or no the light will go off I guess tell me once the lights off but it's just the idea of like you're not gonna you're not gonna fix him he he has to have the ability i was good he has to have the ability to change himself okay but you marie can't function in this codependence of trying to make him happy you will never make him happy you will never be frugal enough so you need i won't i won't so marie live in a cave collect lint only come out on triple coupon thursday marie you need freedom

in yourself and in your marriage for you because regardless of how he changes you have to break that codependence that you're that i'm i'm nervous about the avocado you have to you have to let that go because yeah that's you that that's what you can control so your part you can't control if he's going to change or not but for you yeah live in reality marie and if it pisses him off you know here's the thing he's not he's not a mean person he doesn't see this as anger does he no no he doesn't he's a kind man but he's just controlling i mean very controlling because he's a lot it's a lot there's a lot of fear yes yeah he's very generous with other things uh with a lot of things he's very generous we have a great we have a great life it's wonderful it's just these habits from this like yeah

and if i go to sonic and it's not happy hour i get an earful because why did why didn't i wait 30 minutes that's his problem get my route 44 cherry limeade talk to the hand talk to the limeade yep limeade will talk to you about this i'm not talking to you about this and be like here's all the complaints for the next like six months that what your complaints are going to add up to is this hundred dollar bill so like just take it and i don't want to hear complaining. I'm kidding. Don't do that. But that's basically what it adds up to. Yeah. I'm sorry, Marie.

Honestly, somehow, sometimes sitting down with a good counselor, two sessions even, they'll be able to hold up a mirror back to him, and he'll see himself. And when he does, he'll be a little bit horrified because this is not a bad person. I really don't believe he's mean. I really don't. I really don't think he's angry at you and, you know, earful, but that's just fear-based. And so, but I think, you know, I would invest in two marriage counseling sessions and, you know, bring this up and y'all talk it through and see what the counselor looks at him and goes, dude, you're weird. That counselor's going to pull a string and he may be in there for six months.

You know what the counselor's going to do? What Deloney says, he's going to turn on all the lights. Oh, my gosh. You can't make this up. This is The Ramsey Show. Money and relationships are two of the most important parts of your life and they are tied together in such a way that one doesn't work without the other really yeah i mean you got to be on the same page with both it's a big deal so me dave ramsey and dr john deloney of the famous

dr john deloney show we're hitting the road we're going to do six cities, and we're going to do unfiltered, unscripted, and packed with wisdom events. As a matter of fact, these are the weirdest events we've ever done and that you've ever been to. We're actually going to put up a list of topics before the show starts for the audience. You're going to type it into the app, and you're going to design the show. I love it. We're going to do contemporaneous speaking like like drawing a card and you get to speak on that for 10 minutes only we know what the topics are ahead of time so we you don't know which ones will be chosen though no i don't want to be chosen

and we're going to mix it up and uh pretty cool so we're going to be louisville kentucky will be the first april 21st durham north carolina april 23rd atlanta apr, April 25th. Phoenix on May the 5th. Fort Worth on May the 7th. Kansas City on May the 9th. And you can get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com slash tour. Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloney, live in your city. And if you're on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes. So these things typically sell out early.

They are not yet and uh the live the ramsey cruise that we're going on in a few weeks here it's about three weeks out from now has been sold out for some time so a lot of our big events like that sell out and you quit hearing about them and it that way you don't remember to do the ones that are not sold out so you better go to these so louisville, Durham, Atlanta, Phoenix, Fort Worth, Kansas City, get your tickets or you're going to have FOMO like the people on the cruise that can't go because it's sold out. That's how that works.

So we want to get you signed up and hope we get over there. It's going to be a lot of fun. They're not huge events. They're probably 3,000, 4,000 people each max. They're not 10,000-person arenas or anything. We want to keep it a little more intimate so we can have a little bit of interaction with you guys. It's kind of fun.

Debbie is in Atlanta. Hi, Debbie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello, Mr. Dave. Hey, what's up? Okay. Here's my situation. I am 48 years old. The guy that I'm dating is 49. We're both financially stable.

I came from a family where my father provided for the whole family. My mother was able to stay at home and raise her children. When I married, I was in a marriage for 18 years where I was the man and the woman of the house. After that, well, I had a 13-year-old. She's 13 now, your old daughter. He has a 23- and 26-year-old daughter who are both married, have their families. They're good.

We all get along great, great. Blended family. Couldn't ask for more. This guy has been ready to get married for the past year, and I have put it off for the fact that I have a 300-plus acre farm that my father left to me that I have in a revocable trust for my 13-year-old daughter. We do want to build a home on my property for the two of us. If I pass before he does, I'm fearing that my daughter might lose

something that I could have left to her. I love his children. We get along great. I'm just concerned about the things that we had prior to this marriage with having other children. That's a good question. That's a fair question. Okay.

Well, there's a couple of ideas here. One is it's in an irrevocable trust, and so there's no chance your daughter's going to lose it. Who's going to lose is your new husband who built a house on it. So the first easiest thing to do is just don't build a house there. Okay. Build a house somewhere else. I've got a 250-acre farm that I love, and I just built a new home,

and I would have put it on the farm my wife however refused to live on the farm so if I had done that I'd be living by myself so we have a new home in a different location and the farm still is homeless I mean doesn't have a home so on it so but so I mean I kind of got the same thing going a little bit a little different reasoning obviously and how we got here. But, yep, just go buy another piece of ground. For goodness sakes, both of you got money. Just go buy a piece of dirt and put a house on it.

And it would be fair, even if they get married, that, yeah. And then that piece of ground, that house that you all build and the life you build from this point forward can be dictated by a will and even a prenup. Okay, so that's, i was thinking prenup but in my mind that word just makes me feel like i don't like it but i do use them in extreme circumstances and this is pretty extreme 350 acres in that area that's a lot of money that's what a 1010 million asset or something? Yes.

Or 30, I don't know. What is it? Well, and he has an LLC with his stepfather. They have a farm, and they have over 500 acres. Okay, and you shouldn't leave that to your 13-year-old. That should go to his daughters. Exactly. No.

So, yeah, you guys need a prenup, and you need some estate planning help, both. Okay, one more question. And that's not you planning your divorce. It's that you had substantial financial assets prior to entering. This isn't arguing over $50,000 or a used Corvette, okay? Right, right. thousand dollars or a used corvette okay this is this is this is he tens of millions of dollars on each of you and you want it to go to the appropriate heirs and we've got to set that up and that's not a that's not unreasonable okay would it be reasonable if we because

where i would rather build on this property versus buying one acre of land and having neighbors and whatever. Go buy one acre. Go buy 50 acres. You got money. Right. Both of you got money. Would it be reasonable to put aside five acres in a spot and build a house on it? You know, if you want to do that, that was my second suggestion.

I don't like it as much as the first one was to carve out a piece of this acreage. But I don't know how you're going to do that with an irrevocable trust. So you're going to have to get that piece of acreage out of the trust, and it's going to have to go in your common name. And you'll have to replat it. You say, okay, we're going to take this 10 acres off of this corner, replat it, and set property lines. And it now becomes two different pieces of property. Okay? One 240 acres and one acres right and the 10 acre is in the marriage

and the 240 is going to the 13 year old good deal now you can do that the third one and i like this one even less is that you buy a life insurance policy on you that is equal to the value of the house you build and when you die if you die before him, he gets a check from the life insurance company equal to the value of the house, and the house stays with the 13-year-old. Okay. But he's got to move off the property. I really don't like this at all.

That was one of our fears, too, was that if I continued to leave it in her name, would him and her get along great? Yeah, for now. Until they don't. Yeah, she's 13. If something happened to me, she could kick him to the curb. Give her two years, she's not going to get along with anybody. But anyway.

That is true. We're headed in that direction. I'm kidding, not much. All right, so yeah, there's some ideas there. The easiest one is, and either way, you guys need to sit down and um go okay our love is complicated because our lives are complicated and so we have got to write this out so that everyone is taken care of properly you're taken care of if he passes away but not at the expense of his children and their estate.

That is right. He's taken care of and not thrown off the property. And I've seen some really sad things like that where, you know, and you can leave a life estate. You can do all kinds of stuff. But you need to just get some advice on how we're mechanically going to put this together so everyone gets it. So it's a win-win-win. And then the marriage is based on a lot of communication and clarity that these documents will give you. That's actually good.

I've never shared a checking account with anyone in my life, and I've never, I've always paid my own way, and he wants to be the man of the house. He wants to take care of us, and he wants to. I think the two of you sharing your stuff going forward is a necessity for your marriage. I do, too. But the other stuff that's in the past needs to go to the kiddos. So we have three points on the triangle, 13-year-old past, 23-year-old daughters or whatever they are past,

and the going forward is the other point. And the going forward is the other point and the going forward stuff is completely shared and that's checking account budgeting everything ramsey teaches then at that point it's a good conversation debbie thanks for having it with us this is the ramsey show our scripture of the day is Luke 11, 13. If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more so your Father in Heaven will give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him. Jack Benny said, A rich man is one who isn't afraid to ask the salesperson to show him something cheaper.

You know, I heard that 30-something years ago. I hadn't seen it in a long time. That's a great quote right there. All right, Christian is with us in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Christian. How are you? Hi, Dave. I'm doing well.

How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, so I am a college student here in Greenville. I'm getting my Master's of public health. And I just recently became a fan of your show. I just started reading your book, Total Money Makeover on Audible. Love hearing your voice in that book.

And I, you know, I'm brand new to this. I took out some loans when I was in my undergrad, pretty unwisely, ended up with about $70,000 in debt. Additionally, on top of that, I've also misused some credit cards. So I have in total about $78,000 in debt. And, you know, I'm working right now on getting that emergency fund, Baby Step One. Good. I've got $250 saved, which is pretty great.

What are you living on? Yes, sir. So I'm working two jobs right now. I'm working as a GA, and I'm also working in a coffee shop, and my total income per month is about $1,500. Can you make it on that? Yes, I do because I am not. And if you're a GA, are they giving you tuition on the master's? Yes. Good. So they're covering my tuition is covered. My rent, I'm living in a really, really low income student apartment off campus. And that ends up being about $250 a month.

Wow. Because I'm splitting. Well, the thing is, it's an old apartment, and I'm splitting it. It's a one-person apartment, and I'm splitting it with someone. Good. When do you graduate with your master's? May of 2026. So a year and some change.

One year, yeah. Okay. And what will you be making in your new career? Lord willing, I'm looking into becoming an epidemiologist, which will land me at roughly 80K. Good, good. I think that's roughly starting pay, roughly. Yeah, okay, good for you. Some additional information.

I'm sorry, go ahead. Additional information is what? Yeah, so I'm actually applying to become a data analyst right now. I'm additional on top of all the things I'm doing. I'm also earning a certification and I'm paying like $45 a month for that. And I'm looking into getting a data analyst job, which will also be about 70K starting out. And I want to get that this summer and start destroying my loans. Good.

I like that. That's the hope. Okay. So first rule is you're not making much money. You're a college student, is do no more harm. So that means make enough to cover whatever you need to do. Tuition, you know, the GA is helping with that. That's a brilliant move

there um the uh you know uh housing all that keep all of that and in other words no more new debt cut up the credit card we have to stop if you freeze all of the debt and don't do anything on it for a year and then you graduate and you're making 80k and you attack it you'll be out of debt in no time and that's a that's an acceptable strategy okay if you want to add some fuel to that fire with the data analyst thing um and knock out a bunch of it before you graduate or even before your last year of your master's program that's wonderful too okay okay but uh you know but but the what i don't want you to do is do something that causes you to create more debt okay like let's say i quit my ga thing to do the data analyst thing and therefore now i have forty thousand dollars in tuition that's a problem

or something i just made that up, okay? But I don't want you going that route because now we've got this other thing facing us. So I'm keeping the GA thing all the way through if I'm you. Oh, definitely. Okay. That's saving me exactly $40,000. Oh, as if I've done this before. Wow, look at that.

All right. Congratulations. Hey, you're doing really good and christian the great news is that the uh that you're seeing things for the first time this is all opening up to you and you're ready to take action on it you're being proactive you're taking responsibility you're going to be just fine yeah you're going to be a multi-man and that's the biggest thing christian always is we always say the first step, the hardest step, is choosing to do something different. Because change is so hard and change is so difficult, and you've proven that out. So, well done.

You're on a great path. Cool. Chantel is with us in Wichita, Kansas. Hi, Chantel. How are you? Hey, I'm doing good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? I'm calling. We have a three-year-old daughter, and we are working on baby step number six, but my mom is trying to push us into enrolling her in a private school, which is about $18,000 per year. For a three-year-old? Well, not at three years old, but at kindergarten. Oh, two years from now correct

what's your what's your household income we make about 150,000 to combine okay well why is your mom why is your mom wanting the kid in private school like why why is it why are you not calling us saying we want to do private school for our kids? Is it possible? This is all coming through your mother. Right. She feels like she works for a law firm, and she's around these lawyers who make a lot of money, and they send their kids to private school. So I think it's more of that. What it is is your mother likes to tell you what to do, and you're a grown woman.

Right. Had I called up Rachel and Winston Cruz, who's sitting beside me, and told them where they needed to put their kid in school, that conversation would not have gone well. They would not have appreciated me sticking my nose that deep into their business. Now, it's okay if I'm allowed to ask questions, they would not have appreciated me sticking my nose that deep into their business. Now, it's okay if I'm allowed to ask questions, but I'm not allowed to call up and say, I work with some lawyers. Or I feel like you all, for the family, this is good for the family.

I don't want... Yeah. Are you and your mom close? Sometimes. yeah are you and your mom close um sometimes uh well just do you want to send your kid to private school um i would like to i would like her to have good ethics good morals um a good christian background yeah that comes from you that doesn't come from school that comes from you no school gives that okay yeah and i'll tell you this as kids i have kids in preschool and first grade and fourth grade and that has been the biggest like aha moment is and we have a great school system where we live but we you know

we have friends that do private we do public uh and the same problems that kids are getting into middle school especially middle school and high school, they're in private and they're in public. The difference is the family dynamic and the parents. I mean, honestly, that's the biggest difference. And so, yeah, we don't protect our kids. And I get why people want to do private in a sense, from a spiritual perspective,

they love that their teachers have the same you know mindset and worldview all of that you know i get it it's not wrong private school is not wrong by any means but it is not the protection that i think sometimes as parents chantelle and i say that in my with me having little kids too nor is it a guarantee of success there's zero piece of research that says that a five-year-old that goes to a private school has a higher degree of success than goes to a good public school. Zero. Nothing to back it up. None of those lawyers spending that money at that hoity-toity law firm can back up their reasoning.

None of them. Now, if you want to do it, that's fine. But this idea that your kid is more likely to be successful is absolute 100% bullcrap. Well, and what it sounded like is from her mom it wasn't even them pressuring the mom it's that the mom wanted yeah she wants it for her to look yeah she wants to look good yeah yeah through her grand where her grandkid goes to school yeah and again chantelle if you guys have the money and you guys want to do the private school route that is that's fine i can't even get my grandkids to comb their hair like I want. Oh, my gosh.

At least they have hair, Dave. Hair to comb. See, this is how it goes. When you insert yourself, this is how it goes. I'm kidding. Oh, God. Turns to insults. God bless the grandparents. Welcome home from Cabo, Papa Dave.

Turns to insults almost immediately. Welcome home. Oh, fun. No, your mom doesn't get to make that decision, Chantel. She's violating boundaries, and you and your husband need to tell her to go back to her corner. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.