The Ramsey Show - App - Growing Your Small Business Idea Step-by-Step (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 27, 2018

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Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. This is all about you. This is a show that's called The Dave Ramsey Show. This is about my opinion, and I'm pretty much an expert on my opinion. But we're here to help you. We are here to serve you.

We're here to cause you to be inspired and informed so that you do better at whatever part of your life it is that you and I are going to work on today. The phone number is 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 daniel is with us in charlotte north carolina welcome to the dave ramsey show daniel hey dave how are you better than i deserve what's up well um got a what would dave do question on if i should sell my house. Okay. I bought the house before I started listening to you.

It's an on-frame modular, which is similar to a double-wide, and I owe $46,000 on it. I own the four acres that is underneath it, and I'm paying PMI on a 15-year mortgage at 3.75%, and I'm in Baby Step 456. What do you owe her? Should I sell the house now? What do you owe her? 46. Okay. And what's your household income?

Right at $60,000. Okay. Well, there's several grades and points along a line of modular homes, okay? There's the super cheap bad trailer in the trailer park on one end, right? And everybody knows what that thing's going to do. It's going to go down in value like a car you sleep in. You know what I'm saying? Right.

Then on the other end of the spectrum, when we say modular homes, a lot of modern home builders buy or engineer even wall sections certainly floor sections many times some of the rafter sections and so forth are modular in that they're pre-constructed in a factory and delivered on a truck bed and then they're stood up and tied together so a lot of homes that people think are built traditionally are very much modular homes because there's modules that are pieced together but you cannot tell that they're modular homes and in some cases they're actually stronger than a traditional stick built home because of the engineering on the wall systems and so forth

that's the other end of the spectrum that would be be the Cadillac end, you know what I'm saying, the Bentley end of modular housing. So here's the thing. My only point about, quote, modular housing or trailers or whatever you want to call them in these different situations is if you can drive up in front of it, if the typical person can drive up in front of it and they think to themselves, that thing came in on a truck, Yes. I agree with that, and that's probably what my house is. Okay. And so I don't know what portion of it came in on the truck

or if the whole thing came in on the truck and then we sat it on a fixed foundation or whatever. But if it looks like inside when I'm walking through it and I'm looking at the trim package and I'm looking at the plumbing fixtures and I'm looking at the exterior and the way the thing is shaped and so forth, and I think to myself this thing came in on a truck, 90% of the time that's not going

to go up in value like a traditional home would sitting on the exact same piece of property. And if that's the case, then that's not a property I want to hold. I want to buy real estate that's going to go up in value. So if you had the exact same amount of money invested in another piece of real estate that didn't look like it came in on a truck, it would go up in value more. And so I don't think anything's on fire here. But if that's how your house lands and you just said it does, then sometime in the next four or five years, it might be next year. It might be this year. It might be five years from now.

Sometime in your process, you're going to want to own a different piece of property because you're going to get better appreciation on it that's my only thing about it and again the house you're in maybe it could be a fine property it could be more than adequate for your family it could be very structurally and engineering wise very sound i'm not i'm not putting down trailers or modular houses i'm just observing is the thing going to go up in value as fast as something that doesn't look like it was brought there on a truck bed and that's all we're talking about here i've got friends that own these huge mobile home manufacturing things and they're always like dave you don't know what you're talking about my mobile homes and we're you're right i don't as far as engineering parts and how nice they are because when i was a kid

you know it's just trailer there's a trailer we didn't call it a mobile home it's like a domestic engineer it's a housewife you know i mean it's just like janitor you know i mean we have to come up with all these euphemistic names it's a mobile home okay great that means it's a house that can leave on a trailer it's mobile okay that tells you something it is a house that can leave on a trailer. It's mobile. Okay, that tells you something. It is a trailer or it will leave on a flatbed. And so if you're in that business, I'm not mad at you, but the data in the marketplace says the marketplace does not respect your product like it does a traditional stick-built home.

And so if you're building a modular home, folks, in such a way that the typical person can walk up to it from the inside, the way the trim package and the plumbing package and the kitchen is set up, or from the exterior, and it looks like a glorified trailer, then you're not going to get the appreciation on it. That's just common sense it's not it's not putting anybody down it's not i'm not mad i'm not trying to put the i'm not saying mobile homes are a rip-off but the traditional mobile home on wheels the little

tiny wheels and they roll it up and they put a little you know picket fence around the edge of it that sucker's dropping like a rock and some of you are buying 70 000 80 000 versions of those and double wide or even more, and then 15 years later, is that thing worth $200,000? No, it's worth $10,000. It's going the wrong way. That's a car you sleep in. I mean, that's all it is is going down in value.

And so you've just got to think through that stuff, and that's what Daniel's asking about. So, Daniel, good question. I hope that gives you the decision-making tools for you to look at your property. I wouldn't panic on yours. I don't think yours is – yours might not even be going down. It might be going up. It's just not going up as fast as another property of similar value that does not have

those characteristics. That's what you're looking for. It's the same thing in the – what is this little house movement? Is it little house? Is that what they're calling them? What do they call them? Tiny house in this little house movement. Is it little house? Is that what they're calling them? What do they call them? Tiny house. The tiny house movement.

Little house is bigger than the tiny house. There's another movement y'all don't know about. It's called the little house movement. I just made it up. But the tiny house movement, which is like a glorified doghouse, right? It's a doghouse with an air conditioner. And everybody wants to live in the tiny house. And the tiny house movement.

Well, the problem with the tiny house movement is basic economics there's not many buyers and when there's not many buyers chasing a good supply of items the supply of items the you know supply versus demand causes that item to not appreciate or to actually go down in value but when there are a few items with a lot of buyers chasing them, like there is in real estate right now, you put a house on the market right now, a traditional home in most markets, most major markets, you don't have a, not only have an offer by the end of the weekend, you have multiple offers.

Some places you get a freaking bidding war for your house right now. And what's that causing real estate prices to do? Go up. Because you have a large number of buyers chasing a few number of sellers. And any time you have that, it's basic supply-demand economics. You were supposed to have learned that in the 7th grade, back when they taught the right stuff in the 7th grade. This is the Dave Ramsey Show.

There are few things in this world that irritate me more than when people pay too much for their mortgage. So many of you are paying way too much and you don't even know it. I've got my good friend Mike Hardwick with Churchill Mortgage here. Mike, how do you help these folks? It's unbelievable, Dave, how much people can save if they just make a simple call. We've helped thousands of your listeners save hundreds each month or take years off their loan, helping them to save thousands of dollars in interest over time. Folks, do yourself a favor.

Make a quick call to Churchill Mortgage today. I'm telling you, if you're paying a mortgage, you're potentially throwing money away that could be piling up in your savings account. It's true, Dave. With the rates the way they are right now, if you're making any mortgage payment these days, you're probably paying too much. Call Churchill Mortgage, guys.

It's well worth a few minutes of your time. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. Equal Housing Lender 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Stacey is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Stacey. Hey, Dave. I'm a super big fan of yours. I was hoping that I could get through, and thank God I did.

Well, I'm honored. How can I help, sir? I have three quick questions for you. My wife and I, we sold our home last October, and our home sold within three weeks. We had to move into an apartment, so we signed a 10-month lease with hopes of finding a home, another home within those 10 months. Our lease has since expired because we didn't find a home. My three questions for you is, should we renew our lease for another 11 months,

try to find a home with today's low interest rates, or pay off our existing debt of $18,000? And why did you sell the home originally? The home, we sold the home originally because there was a ton of foreclosures in our subdivision. Oh, okay. And we had one of those interest-only loans. We sold the home originally because there was a ton of foreclosures in our subdivision. Okay. And we had one of those interest-only loans, and we needed to get out of that loan. Okay. So there's a whole bunch of reasons to get out of there and, you know, bad situation. I got you.

Okay. And what's your household income? My household income, I'm in sales. So my household income, my wife is a stay-at-home mom, so I average between 85. This past year I made, thank God, about 140. Wow. And this year I'm on track to make about 115 to 120. Good for you.

You're killing it, man. Good job. Okay. Well, here's the thing. If you call me up and you said, we're renting an apartment, we have $18,000 in debt, should we buy a house? And that was the only part of the story you told me, okay? Then I would say, don't buy a house until you're debt-free and you have your emergency fund in place, and then you save your down payment working right through the baby steps.

And, you know, I kind of think that's the smart thing to do here, even though the way you got here is you're not like a first-time homebuyer and your young couple just got married in an apartment and you're dying to buy a house. You know, in that case, I always tell you, wait until you're debt-free because you're going to make a better home decision when you have your emergency fund in place plus a down payment and you have no debt. You're going to feel different when you buy the house the house has a higher likelihood of being a blessing rather than being a curse

and so um i think i'm going to do that if i'm in your shoes um sharon and i actually moved our home moved out of our house after we went broke sold it not because we went broke but because the kids were in a school system and we were paying private school fees while we went broke sold it not because we went broke but because the kids were in a school system and we were paying private school fees while we're broke which is just really stupid i mean we were just unbelievable so we had to get them into a different school system and moved and we still had a little bit of debt to clean up so we sold the house and we rented we ended up renting two years which is what you're going to end up doing which was very very hard for me emotionally because i've been in real estate since i turned 18 years old my parents

were in the real estate business for goodness sakes i've always owned real estate as an adult and to not own any real estate and be a renter was it was devastating emotionally i mean i was just i was scratching and clawing and fighting to where I was never going back there again. I did not like it. And my wife hated the rental house, too, which made it even worse. So the only thing was we got into a good area and into a good school system. And the story ended fabulously as we moved out of that property into the first real house that we ever owned and paid cash for in our lives. And so it changed the whole direction.

It was the beginning of our financial peace walk, our total money makeover walk. So I can relate to you. It's been a while since I've been there, but I can relate to you. But I think I would stay there and run another year. Let's get that debt paid off. You're making good money. You're doing a good job with your sales. Get that emergency fund in place.

Get you a good, big, fat, juicy down payment. And I think you can do all of that in this 11 months with the kind of money you're making. Get yourself on a really tight rice and beans, beans and rice budget. We're saving up to buy a house. We're going to get out of debt. We're going to buy a house, and we're going to build our emergency fund, and we're going to buy a house, and all of that. We're going to buy a house, and we're going to build our emergency fund, and we're going to buy a house, and, you know, all of that. We're going to buy a house, and that's our mantra.

And put pictures of houses on the refrigerator door so the family knows that's why we don't have a life this year because all we're doing is renting and getting ready to buy a house, and we're leaning in, and that's what I would do. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You can join us on Facebook.com slash Dave Ramsey. Morgan is on Facebook and says, Dave, if you really believe people shouldn't use credit cards,

why does your website take credit cards? Morgan, obviously you're an idiot because there's a couple of things you underestimated by trolling my Facebook page with your hypocritical innuendo. The thing you didn't understand about me is I am not your typical person that's on the air. I'm a hillbilly. And when you insult a hillbilly's honor and integrity, we get pissed off. And hillbillies don't do drive-by shootings. We buy the house next door to you and lay siege. So you need to understand, you little twit, with your digital courage and your obvious slight of my integrity,

that number one, you're an idiot. Number two, you don't know what you're talking about. My website does not take credit cards. We very clearly take debit cards. It would be hypocritical for us to take credit cards. Now, can you run a credit card through our website system possibly it could probably happen with the software i don't know but we have clear signage up that says don't do that you fool and that we're not hypocrites so if you really want to find some excuse to not do the stuff we're talking about morgan

there's lots of excuses but my lack of integrity is not on the list because we are exactly who we say we are i'm worth tens of millions of dollars because i do the stuff we talk about my wife still has a freaking envelope system in her purse. We do not take credit cards. We do not borrow money. I had a guy ask me this morning. I was in a meeting. He goes, hey, my wife's a teacher up in Gallatin, Tennessee.

She heard you leased your truck. And I'm like, oh, geez, what kind of idiot would I be to go lease a truck? And what kind of moron at a car dealership actually tells somebody that Dave Ramsey leased his car? I mean, you have to be beyond stupid to think that I would lease a car. I mean, seriously. But everybody, you know, here's what it is. You don't want to grow up. You don't want to live on less than you make.

You don't want to get on a budget. You don't want to agree on your spending with your spouse. You don't want to stop spending like you're in Congress. You don't want to quit being a little twit, and so you try to find something inconsistent about me. Listen, if you don't want to do the stuff we teach, I'm okay. I still got financial peace. You just go on your merry stupid little way.

I'm fine if you don't want to do the stuff we teach, whoever you are. If you're insulted or you don't like my politics or I don't have enough hair or you got a face for radio or whatever, you can find a reason to not follow Dave Ramsey. There's lots of them. You're too angry. You're not of them. You're too angry. You're not mean enough. You're too Christian. You're not Christian enough.

There's always a reason to not do this stuff if you want an excuse to not fix your life. But that's all it is, darling. You're just being a little twit. And you're this generation that has what we call digital courage. You no more would walk into the lobby of this building and say something stupid butt like that to my face than fly to the moon. And if you did, then we would help you leave the building quicker than your feet might carry you.

So unbelievable. But you don't have that kind of courage. You're just a little spineless little boy living in his mother's basement. And so go on social media with your little opinion. But no, darling, we don't take credit cards. We're not inconsistent. And I don't lease my truck. I don't have a mortgage on my house.

Oh, Lord. And I don't have secret investments in double-secret, double-backflip family partnerships that only the rich use. There's no such thing, by the way, you stupid people. Seriously, just do the stuff, man. Just do the stuff. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs?

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chministries.org. Lisa's with us in Houston, Texas. Hi, Lisa. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? My question is, my mother has an annuity, which I just kind of found out that it was an annuity.

And I had asked her some questions like I had heard on the show, and she didn't know any of the answers. So we went to her investor, and we sat down, and I told him. I said, okay, my mom doesn't even understand what she has. And so he explained it to us. And anyway, my dad died about six years ago, and he had $200,000 in an annuity. And my mom thought she had $200,000 in an annuity, and she was getting interest off that. But when it comes down to it, she has like $172,000 because they take the money out of the annuity.

They take the money out of the annuity. They take the money out of the annuity for what? For disbursement. Okay. But is the annuity not making any money? Is it a fixed annuity or is it invested in mutual funds and variable annuity? Fixed.

Okay, and that's the problem. It's the most conservative one possible. Yeah, it's not making any money. And so she's taking out more than it's making. And so she's killing the goose that's laying the golden eggs because it's not laying many golden eggs. Right. And this is what she has plus her Social Security, which isn't that much to live off of. I mean...

Yeah, this needs to be rolled into a variable annuity. Okay. So within the annuity, we roll it into a variable? It would be a different kind of annuity, but probably with the same company in that way. How long has she had this? For six, it'll be six years. I know they told us that without a penalty, it would be November 2019.

Okay. All right. Well, I wonder how big the penalty is because the penalty right now is the loss of what is, you know, it's earning 1% or 2% when it could be earning 10%. So you're losing like $17,000 a year. Exactly. And, you know, I kind of went over that with the guy. I used your numbers.

And then he was like, well, we could maybe move it up a little bit more moderate. And I'm like, well, this isn't working. Yeah. So what you do, where does your mom live? She lives in Houston. She lives like six doors down from me. Oh, okay. So she's near you.

Okay. Well, just jump online and click SmartVestor and fill out the information and get a list of the SmartVestor pros in your area and sit down with one of them and get a second opinion. It sounds like that there's one of two routes you can go here. One, you could roll it to a variable annuity. But you need a new advisor. You're not happy with this guy.

No, actually, I'm not. I said, in six years, I asked my mom. I said, in six years, has they ever talked to you? They've never talked to her in six years. Yeah. Well, that's bad, number one. But number two, you know, he's kind of got an attitude is the way you're describing him. Yeah.

Which is kind of normal in that business. It's kind of like he gives you a little eye roll. The thing that bothered me the most that I didn't know how to come back with was the scare. To me, it was a scare tactic. Like, you know, he was telling my mom, well, this is fixed.

You will have this amount no matter how much you have in there for the rest of your life. Yeah, that's right. That's true. And let me tell you what else is fixed the fact that it sucks yeah for the rest of her life it's making two percent i mean so a cd's fixed right you make a 1.3 percent on it or whatever it is 1.7 percent whatever right and so so if it was in a mutual

fund it was making 10 oh wait mutual funds aren't guaranteed i know that but if it didn't make 10 what let's say it made half of what it normally makes five it's still double what you're making now right and that's half of what it normally does so i'm going to do one of two things i'm either going to move it to a variable and how old is your mom she's 77 okay and and how is her emotions when she's discussing this? You know, I've stayed out of it. And then she was in the hospital, so I kind of took over some of her bills. And they weren't too bad, but they were behind. And so I've got them caught up.

And I had her take FPE with me. And so she's getting involved. Yeah, okay. So here's my point. I don't want to scare her, okay? Right. So if you roll it to a variable annuity in mutual funds, they will give you a guarantee that the principal will, no matter what happens, the principal will not be lower than what she puts in.

It's a guaranteed principal. If she dies and the 172 has gone down in value because the stock market went down, the heirs would get 172. If she leaves it in there a few years and cashes it out later, heirs would get 172 if she leaves it in there a few years and cashes it out later she still would get 172 so she as long as she doesn't cash out the principal but i mean due to the market going down she's got principal guarantee the other thing is they'll give her a floor on the rate of return that's higher than she's getting now a guaranteed rate of return and it'll never be that low so you can put it in good mutual funds inside of an annuity with probably no surrender charge

and get her the guarantees that give her peace of mind if you want to do that and she wants to do that. Or you can just go straight into mutual funds. Okay. So, like, my question would be, like, if it was $172,000 and if we surrendered it, it's $166,000. That's what he said it would be if I took it out now. Okay, that's $6,000. Right. So let's just do this for a second, okay?

If it made 10% a year in the new product by moving it over, that would be $17,000, let's just say. Okay? Okay. 10% of $170,000, right? Right. Okay. If it makes 2% of $170,000, that's $3,400. Okay.

The difference is $14,000. Right? Right. You following me? I am. And so if you lose $6,000 and you move it, but you make $14,000 more, you know, a net of six, you're still coming way out. Right.

So you're going to make a lot more money to cover the first year you'll make your, she would make her loss due to the surrender back, her surrender charge back. So, yeah, I'm moving this money. I just don't know what I'm moving it to until I sit down with someone other than Goob that you got now. Well, I've already got appointments with two smart investors. We're going to go, and I'm taking her with me. Yeah, good. Just take your time.

Let mom be comfortable. I don't want to scare her. But, again, if you put it in a mutual fund and it does really, you know, some conservative mutual funds. I'm not talking about rolling the dice or taking some wild ride here, but, you know, something conservative, growth in income, some balanced funds, some stuff like that, something super, super conservative that's got long track records. And if it does half what it has done in the past 10 years, half, it'll beat the thing she's in and recoup her surrender charges. So it's just she's in a really bad product.

The fixed annuity is one of the worst products out there. And the fact that this guy has her in that and hasn't even talked to her in six years is just unconscionable. So he needs to be fired. Whether you use a SmartVestor Pro or not, this guy needs to be fired. Hope that helps you. Thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You know, a bunch of you could answer that question.

You were sitting there listening to that, and you knew the answer to that question. When I'm talking to someone about the debt that they've got you can answer the question and you know what if you could help people in your community went with money what if you had the power to help people change their lives if you're passionate about this stuff you're the perfect person to help lead a financial peace university group we call them financial peace university coordinators the people that lead the. It's our proven program that teaches people how to take control. At any given time, there's 10,000 to 20,000 of these groups operating around America. And, of course, you're a member, and so you've got full access online when you buy into Financial Peace University, right?

And people like you volunteer and become a coordinator and lead the group. It doesn't take a lot of time. It doesn't take a lot of financial training. We do the teaching. You're not asked to have an MBA in finance or something like that. You just get to have a front row seat and watch people change their lives. It's very cool. Get started by texting the word LEADER to 33789.

Text LEADER to 33789 or visit us at DaveRamsey.com. We need some Financial Peace University coordinators right now. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, turnover is bad for business and it's expensive. That's why I recommend ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter is a place where growing businesses connect qualified candidates. They make it so easy. When you post your job with ZipRecruiter, they send it to over 100 of the web's leading job boards.

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ZipRecruiter.com slash Dave. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Dave. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Gabriella is in Long Beach, California. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Gabriella. Hey, how's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? This is just such an honor and such a blessing to just be able to even ask you a question that's going to help improve my life. And I'm just seeking some guidance right now. Me and my boyfriend recently moved from Buffalo all the way out here.

Wow. And I'm originally from here. Yeah, so it was definitely something that we had planned on doing. We have plans for marriage later on, too. So we've been listening to you for a couple of months now. My friend introduced me to the Total Money Makeover, and just in the last six months, you've just brought such a light over my life that it's just... Thank you. I'm glad we could help. How can I help today? It's amazing. So I'm currently in debt. I'm current with all of my bills, and I'm on the debt snowball.

So I have some stocks with my employers that they provide, and I'm wondering if I should take that out to just kind of kick the debt in the butt. It's not in a retirement account, is it? It's not. It's not. Yes, I would cash it out. Okay, then. And then I also have restricted stocks coming in October. I was wondering if I should wait because I was recently in an accident about a year and a half ago,

and we're in the process of a settlement being arranged, but I don't know how much. I don't know what will occur of that, but I was hoping to use that towards the rest of the debt because my debt is just in card and student loan. I went to Buffalo for my master's in trade and development. So, here's the deal. How much stock have you got? What's it worth? The total balance is just under $2,000. Okay. And how much debt do you have? I have, including my car and my student loan, just about $40,000. Okay. So cash it out and

put it on the student loan. So it doesn't Okay. And then the restricted stock is how much? I guess I got it mixed up. The restricted stock is about $2,000. In October, it's supposed to be about $8,000. Okay. So you can't touch restricted stock. That's why it's called restricted. Exactly, exactly.

So you can only take out what you can take. It doesn't matter. You can't take out the restricted stock, period, until the restriction's up. And the restriction's up in October. How much is the restricted stock? I'm not sure, honestly. Okay, and how much do you have that is not restricted um two thousand okay cash that out now and then when the restricted comes up cash it out

okay then okay and use it on your debt and then if you have a settlement that you have to do you have to work that out with the other debts that you're working on um and so uh you know and what that assumes is that there's something coming out of your pocket that your insurance isn't going to cover. You had a car wreck, and your liability insurance should cover any settlement that comes up. Yeah, and that's what I'm hoping to see come from the settlement because that's kind of where the card that came into place.

Oh, the settlement's coming to you, not from you? Oh, yeah, yes. It's coming to me. Oh, great. Then you'll be able to pay off a bunch of debt with that money then, too. Okay. So we have restricted stock. We have stock that is not restricted.

Take it out now. We have stock that is restricted. Take it out when the restriction leaves. And when the settlement comes, play it. And everything else you can squeeze out of your budget play all of that and we're going to play towards this you know working your debt snowball list your debts smallest to largest pay it on the smallest debt whatever you get your hands on whatever source it comes from and then knock the next one out and then knock the next one down and then knock the next one down and you

don't get to play with any of that money this is grown-up time we're using all of that money to clean up the messes that you've made dan is in wichita kansas hi dan welcome to the dave ramsey show hey dave good to talk to you you too sir what's up can you settle a disagreement for me i'll try all right i know i'm right but i need to hear it from the teacher's mouth to prove the point here okay uh so my father-in-law told my wife last night over dinner that Dave Ramsey would say to stop tithing to your local church until you get out of debt. No, Dave Ramsey has never said that.

That's exactly what I told her. Not one time in 30 years. That's an easy one to answer. That's an easy one to answer. Now, let's talk about, you know, I think a more interesting discussion rather than Dave's opinion, which is a very interesting discussion to no one but dave but um anyway the the uh you know why would i never say that i think that's an interesting discussion uh because that's something to think about is why we you know well for a person of faith a christian that believes the bible

um most of us would define that one way of defining a hardcore Bible-believing Christian as an evangelical Christian. Lots of Catholics also and Protestants of other kinds also believe the Bible. Certainly lots of my Jewish friends believe in the Talmud, what we call the Old Testament. So anyone that is in those two groups, or those three or four groups, Christians and Jewish, that are following as best we can figure out what Scripture says, and that's our handbook, that's our love letter from God.

Our Heavenly Father loves us. Then I'm going to use that, and what that says matters to me a lot more than what some goob on the radio says, like me. Okay? Yeah, and it's even funnier because I'm a pastor. Okay. So he's telling my wife that the pastor of the church should stop tithing to the church. That's downright insulting, but...

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Golly! Well, this guy's got nerve. So, you know, so then the thing is this. You know, someone in this conversation, might be your father-in-law, is not operating from a biblical paradigm. You and I are. And so we're not arguing about what Dave Ramsey thinks or what Pastor thinks. We're just saying, if two people say, if we can come to an agreement on this thing, we want to do what the Bible says.

Right. Not what Dave says. Not what Pastor says. Not what the denominational headquarters say. Not what the father-in-law says. We want to do what the Bible says. That's my guideline. As best I can figure it out.

Now, I can't always figure it out. Sometimes it's very nuanced, and I don't get it, you know? And I can't, you know, sometimes I can't tell the difference in last night's pizza and the Holy Spirit. So I'm, you know, I am not necessarily the spiritual king of all kings in that sense. But I have read scripture on this for 40 years now. And I've been challenged probably more than about anybody you've ever met on this subject. So the only thing I can find about the tithe, which is a tenth of your income, by the way, the Hebrew word means tenth, literally.

It's not 5%. You can't 20 at the tenth. Okay? It's a tenth. And so it's a tenth of your income. The only thing I can find about it is that it's first fruits. And it says that several times in the Psalms and several times in Proverbs. First fruits in an agrarian culture means when we're picking in the orchard,

the first 10% of our harvest goes to the Lord before we do anything off the top. That's what first fruits means. And then with what's left, we work it out. Now, why does God have us to do that? Because he's greedy and wants our money? Nope. Nope. Doesn't need our money.

He's God. If he wants our money, he'll take it. It's a big greasy spot where you were sitting. He's God. He doesn't need your money. He'll just take it. So why does he have you to give? Because he wants to teach us to be like him, and he's a giver.

That's exactly right. And it's even more ironic that he said it this week because i'm preaching on tithing this weekend oh of course of course he gave you a great object lesson for you better not do that i'm kidding but it sure is tempting sure is tempting to send him a copy of the message but no but you know it so for me what the t tithe is, is my heavenly father loves me, and he says, kid, I love you. Here's how you live. First thing you do is you give.

The second thing you do is you take care of your own household or you're worse than an unbeliever. And you walk up that line. And so then I start working to get out of debt and save money and the other biblical principles of handling money. But I give a tenth of my income to my local church. I always have, ever since I met God, because I just believe that that's what he tells me to do.

And I use the Bible as my guideline, not someone's opinion. And so, including if you don't want my opinion, you want to use the Bible. So go study it and see if you find something different. You won't, because I'm right. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly Daniel, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know that in 2017, Dave Ramsey Show listeners paid off $50 million of debt? That's pretty impressive.

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