The Ramsey Show - App - Hard Decisions Now Prevent Harder Consequences Later

Starting point is 00:00:00 Normal is broken common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Washall, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today and Ramsey personality. And today is a big deal around Ramsey. Happy New Year to everybody. And this is also the day that Jade's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is officially here.

Starting point is 00:00:42 Woo, woo, woo, whew, ew, e'o! Here it is. It's here. I'm holding it. It's real. And you can order it, and it will be sent to you post-haste. It is an incredible book. If you've never ever known what to do with your money but couldn't follow through,

Starting point is 00:00:58 it's not a discipline problem. your emotions are getting in the way, frustration, fear, shame, all of that shows up in how we handle our money. And Jade, you cover every bit of that here. I do. I do in great detail and with much story elements involved. So it's not a boring read, Dave. No, I read a book over the holidays that had no story, and I felt like I was back in college. It was work. It's like a lesson. I got it, and it was good. The information was good, but I had to work at it a little more. Because there was no humor and there was no story. No, when there's story, you can see yourself.

Starting point is 00:01:30 The whole book. I need a joke. When a story, you see yourself in it, you've lived it, you're like, oh, yeah, I've done that before. I've been there before. I know what that feels like. And it makes it easier to digest and put into action. Well, and to go with the stories, of course, is the detailed plan of how to address that emotions are real. Personal finances, 80% behavior. It's only 20% had knowledge the problem with your money is most likely in your mirror it is in your mirror it's in my mirror yes it's in mine too but this book is going to give you it's like it's a it's a it's very prescriptive dave it's a diagnostic so if you're like what is my problem what is my log jam we

Starting point is 00:02:14 are going to figure out what it is together there it is what no one tells you about money the real key to getting unstuck from somebody who's been there and it's like having one of us walking with you all the time. You don't want to miss this. This book will bring behavioral finance down to earth. You get your copy right now. They're 2499 at ramsaysolutions.com slash store. If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description.

Starting point is 00:02:38 When I'm out there running around, people say, Jade's my favorite. Well, prove it. Buy our book today. So that's what we want to know. That's how we want you to prove it. You have to prove it. You have to prove your love.

Starting point is 00:02:48 All right. Sandy is with us in Orlando. Hey, Sandy, what's up? Hey, so I have a question. My husband and I lived in our home for 15 years. We had an interest rate of 2.7%. Our mortgage payment was $1,800. We decided to jump to a different neighborhood

Starting point is 00:03:10 because our neighborhood had been changing a good bit in terms of a variety of different things, not going the right direction. and we jumped on a new home, on a different house. It's an older home. It needs some work. We now have a almost $4,000 a month mortgage payment, 6% interest rate, and we did not really sit down and do our homework.

Starting point is 00:03:39 And the house really doesn't meet our functional needs. Do you have two people who work corporate out of the home every day and we're missing some functional space? And I kind of freaked out because our other home more than met our needs for long term. And my husband got angry and basically said, you need to leave. I'm so angry with you over this. And he's like, if you don't leave, then I'm going to leave. About the house.

Starting point is 00:04:10 He's angry with you about the house? Yes. Because it was your idea? Yes. And so then we rented another home in the area. because we're bound to this area for schools for our daughter. Okay. And so now that's a $2,750, like, rent payment,

Starting point is 00:04:34 and I still haven't moved in there, and I called the lady, and she will let me out. So I've only paid two months, and I haven't moved in because I need his help, because I can't move a bed, et cetera, by myself. And so my question is, like, How long have you been married? We've been married like almost 23 years, and we have no car loads.

Starting point is 00:04:58 We have maybe $1,000 on the credit card. We have no other debt. We've always been financially. But this isn't about the debt. It can't be. And it's not about the house. That may have been a catalyst. We bought a house together.

Starting point is 00:05:15 How did it end up being your fault? I don't know because I think because for a long time I had asked to move just because of things that had happened in our original neighborhood and this was just a bad choice financially it's the wrong house we should have just stayed where we were to get our daughter through you know her last two years of school but now we have this mortgage payment that's more and now we have a rent payment on top of that you know what I don't give a crap about your house I don't know what to do. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, I don't care about your house. The only thing I want to save is your marriage.

Starting point is 00:05:57 Okay. Well, I do, too, but that's more important. No, no, no, no, no, no, that's more important than a house. He said, if you don't leave, I'm leaving. Yeah, so. So what do you need is a marriage counselor, right? Well, we've started with one, and then we've been paying her, and then come, um, She's out of network, which is fine.

Starting point is 00:06:19 What is your household income? I make like 180, and he makes 250. Okay. Don't talk to me about network and marriage counselors. You pay the freaking marriage counselor. It's the first thing you do, and both of you spend every day with them until you get this figured out. Because if you don't get your marriage straightened out, you're going to go bankrupt. Because you guys are making stupid but choices left and right.

Starting point is 00:06:46 right, based on a broken marriage, not based on anything else. Right. So the solution is a healing in your relationship, and that we together then can decide how we're going to move forward. If you lost the house and moved into an apartment, both of you together, and the lady with the rent sued you, I'd be okay if it saved your marriage. well there's i mean there's no apartments in the area we live in we have confined confined to an area for school

Starting point is 00:07:23 quit quit coming up with this okay my point is that you're putting the house story at the front of the story it's at the back of the story the front of the story is you and your husband if you solve that you'll find a solution to the other things There may be some pain involved based on some of the stupid stuff y'all have done lately, but it's very possible. You left a house that your daughter was in good schools. You can find a house that your daughter was in good schools,

Starting point is 00:07:55 and you can find something to do, but 23 years worth of marriage and a little girl are at stake, not a stupid house. I couldn't give a crap less about the house. For that matter, before I worry about your daughter's school, I'm going to save your marriage. She'll survive somewhere else. Teenagers do it all the time. Pick her little butt up and move her if it saves your marriage.

Starting point is 00:08:23 So you've got to get these things in the right order here and quit creating these things where you're boxed in. You're not boxed in. You've got choices. But it starts and ends in the marriage counselor's office right now, today. And yes, you can freaking afford it $300,000 a year. Emily is in Cincinnati. Hi, Emily. How are you?

Starting point is 00:08:56 Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I work for a large insurance company, and they have always offered to give me a corporate credit card, and I've always declined, and I've paid for company expenses using my debit card and gotten reimbursed. However, my role has changed. I'm going to be accumulating more expenses, and I started asking more questions about the corporate card. They say that it won't affect my credit, but I'm just feeling a little conflicted about having a credit card in my wallet. I don't use credit, even if I'm just an authorized user on the corporate

Starting point is 00:09:31 account, and so I just kind of wanted to know what your thoughts were on that. What type of card is it? I have no idea. You don't know if it's an Amex? You don't know if it's an Amex, do you? I don't. Okay. If it's American Express, do not sign it. Okay. Their agreement will hold you liable. They are sharks.

Starting point is 00:09:52 Okay. If it is a standard visa or MasterCard, you're not liable by becoming an authorized user. And technically, it's not supposed to report on your credit bureau, but often it gets screwed up and they report on authorized users. okay so if they don't pay the bill on time it may show up on your credit bureau report if it ever does pull your credit bureau report once a year everybody ought to do that anyway and if it ever does check it and have disputed and have it removed because you're not liable on the card if it's a standard master card unless you sign the bank documents and say I'm liable authorized user does not make you liable okay perfect well that's helpful I've never

Starting point is 00:10:41 user credit card. I've followed your stuff for years, so I really appreciate it. Well, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I, but I, you know, be prepared if it's a master card or visa for it to actually pop onto your credit bureau report, which I've never really understood, but it does happen. Well, let's talk about from the other way. Let's suppose it is an Amex. What's the conversation that you would have with the employer? I wouldn't do it. I'm not signing that. I might have to figure out some other workaround. They either need to get me a different card or whatever, but that I have had way too many customers over the years that were in deep stuff because some company went bankrupt and then Amex starts calling them wanting their money. And I also wouldn't want to put it on my personal debit card because that's a problem too. That's a problem too.

Starting point is 00:11:23 If they don't get, you know, if they don't get reimbursed, that's a problem. Especially if it's starting to be a lot of money like you said. Yeah, that messes with your own cash flow. Yeah, you just got to make your choices through all that. But I'd stay away from an Amex corporate card. They are bad, bad juice. And the other's okay. It's not your card. You're not liable for it. You're just using someone. It's like going to dinner with somebody that has a credit card and they bought your dinner. You know, I mean, that's all it is.

Starting point is 00:11:46 It's, except you can sign for it. That's the only difference. But, yeah, you can do that. And, you know, but I suspect they have that. I guess another workaround could be what we have. We have corporate debit cards. Yeah. So, like, you travel.

Starting point is 00:12:05 You have a debit card. I do. I do. You have a Ramsey debit card. Okay. And so. So we don't ask our people that travel to use their money and get reimbursed. We pay for their travel.

Starting point is 00:12:14 So if you're on the road doing a media hit in New York City or something and you're up there doing Fox and that kind of stuff, then the hotel and all that junk, whatever it is. Just put it on that. Car services all on us. And, you know, you just only use it for business things. You don't go buy yourself something on it, you know. Yeah, you still submit your receipts and everything is still, it's the same process. Same as having a company credit card, but there's no possibility of liability because you are an authorized user. But that's the same thing.

Starting point is 00:12:40 They could issue that. If they have Amex, they could issue a company debit card if they really want to go crazy for her on a MasterCard or Visa platform, and she'd be just fine with that. Okay. Taking it a level deeper. Okay. So how much, okay, this is where my brain goes to this. I agree with everything we're saying. How much does that make her, does that make her a difficult employee by going to the employer and saying?

Starting point is 00:13:06 I think her attitude about it is that. Okay. Yeah. It's what makes you difficult. It's like, guys, I'm just worried about this. Help me. Instead of like, I demand. There we go.

Starting point is 00:13:17 Yes. You know, you want to, I demand something. You can demand somewhere else. Yes. Okay. We don't do that. But instead you go, hey, help me with this. I'm struggling with this.

Starting point is 00:13:25 I don't agree with this. I don't want to be liable. And I understand with Amix I would be. And you can pull up, by the way, folks, you can pull up the amics thing online. It's not hard to pull it up. So go more with the liability. the, that's the case you're making. And I'm scared.

Starting point is 00:13:40 Yes. Thing, then. I don't believe in debt. Debt's wrong. Yeah, I don't want to be in debt accidentally. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Okay.

Starting point is 00:13:48 And just having a credit card kind of creeps me out. But I can do it if this is the way it's done and I'll be okay. But I just want to talk this through and I don't want to be difficult. I don't be a problem. Somebody has that conversation once or twice with us on something. We'd be going, okay, sure. Yeah. How can you be mad?

Starting point is 00:14:03 You know, but if, but if they come back like 17. times, then it starts, even if they're nice, it starts to be, yeah, you're not listening, you know, we're not doing this, you know, so, but that, you know, there's a thing that's somewhere in there, but yeah, I mean, most employers, now again, you could be in a toxic work environment, they could use this against you, but that's not, it's not the actual situation that's going to get used against you. It's actually the problem people is what's going on there. Abby's in Nashville. Hey, Abby, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Starting point is 00:14:37 Okay. I just have a question. My husband and I were 24. We built our house about a year and a half ago. So our only debt is our mortgage. We've followed your stuff since before we were married. And I just, we're kind of on two different pages as far as paying extra on our house. I am just the mindset of, well, this is our only debt. Let's just knock it out as quickly as we can. Whereas he has a pretty specific number in his head as far as like liquid in the bank that he would like to keep. Wait, wait a minute, I'm sorry, liquid in the bank, in addition to the emergency fund? Yes. Okay, the part where you followed our stuff, you just left.

Starting point is 00:15:19 Wait, what? I said the part, you said you follow our stuff. When you say liquid, is it just savings to have savings? What's $100,000 in a savings account? Well, we own our own business, so we have a few different accounts. We have like a business checking account. a savings account and then like a regular checking account or like all of our stuff like day-to-day bills and everything. So what is the amount he's got in his head? He doesn't want to get under

Starting point is 00:15:48 $100,000. How big is the business? What kind of gross revenue is it doing annually? Last year we were just under 100. This year we're on track for, I'll be real, in 2025. Okay, I was talking about 2024 was under 100. 2025, we have not finished our tax. taxes yet the first two quarters. He was at 120. Okay. Gross revenue. Yes, sir. Okay, so $250,000 gross. All right, and what are you going to net on the business, do you think? Honestly, I don't, I would undershoot it and say, oh gosh, I don't even know. He is maybe a hundred and Okay, so maybe he's making $100,000 a year. What do you make? We'll just say that yet. Oh, I've worked part-time since we had our baby. So I'm a cosmetologist. This year I'm on track for like

Starting point is 00:16:40 25 or 30. Okay. So your emergency fund should be three to six months of expenses. Okay. Your personal checking account, two or three thousand dollars float in there is enough. Okay. That's what we have right now. In the business itself, in the business itself, the most you would ever need is six months to a year of expenses. Okay. And so his number is a little high. His number's a little high. What I would recommend he do is this, and this is what we recommend to the Entree leadership team that we coach about 10,000 small businesses, okay? And it's also what we do at Ramsey. We take a percentage of our net profits each month and add to our retained earnings, our savings in the business. Okay. Okay. And so let's say you made $10,000 a month,

Starting point is 00:17:33 and you said, I'm going to put 10% away. That'd be I'm going to put $1,000 in there. If I made $20,000, I'm going to put $2,000. Whatever it is, I'm going to take a percentage of it. The rest of it, I'm bringing home, and then I get to decide if I want to pay down on my house. But you need to keep the business savings and retained earnings separate in your minds from your baby step six. That also being said, now is baby step six. It's not baby step two.

Starting point is 00:18:02 so you wanting to go hard in the paint as if it were to, you're not fully fair on that either. So some of that money can go towards other fun stuff. Growing in the business and other things. Yeah, exactly. Amanda is in Houston, Texas. Hi, Amanda, how are you? I am also better than I deserve. Thank you. Good. How can we help?

Starting point is 00:18:36 So I'm calling for some guidance on what to do about some student loans, one of which my mom took out in my name without me knowing. Who got the use of the money? I don't know. So that's the other thing I need help with. Who's the option? Would it have been for? for you or for a sibling, or for her, for a sibling. She bought a car where they go to Europe? I don't think she bought a car or went to Europe and she didn't spend it on a sibling,

Starting point is 00:19:10 but I'm trying to make sense of the numbers. So the first one that I did know about was for $20,000, but I recall that my tuition was only about $17 for that year. And so there's an extra $3,000. and I kind of brushed it off thinking, oh, maybe she used that for, you know, my living expenses. Well, I learned right before Christmas that she took out a second $20,000 loan. And there's no way that my living expenses were $20,000 for that year because the only thing she was paying was my rent for a very,

Starting point is 00:19:58 shabby place that was shared with 10 girls how old is this how old are you um 23 so when was this all done two or three years ago

Starting point is 00:20:09 yes my yeah my last year which was two years ago okay so you're out now out of school and you've got a drop right yes what do you make what do you make 48 plus a couple thousand extra for stipend

Starting point is 00:20:24 and then there's $40,000 where two to $20,000 loans that you did not sign for. She fraudulently signed your name. The first one I agreed to, so I wouldn't say that's fraudulent. I didn't want to. It is fraudulent, but you agreed to it. Okay. It's just the 3000. You don't know what happened to that three. If you didn't sign it and someone else signs your name, that's called fraud. Well, I think I remember signing something, and it was with my school. Then your mother did not take the loan out. You did. Yeah, you took it. You just don't know what happened to the 3,000. Tell us

Starting point is 00:20:58 about the second $20,000 loan? So yes, I'm okay. I made peace with the first one. It was against my better judgment, but I've learned that that was my fault, and I've been attacking that, killing it. The second one is what has me upset and angry and confused. And so that total is just over $21,000 because some interest has accrued. Have you seen the promissory note? Because you can go back and see who signed it. No. So should I ask that company for it? Um, well, let's stop. Let's go back to me. I want to go back to Christmas for a second. So why this conversation sound? We have not had a conversation about it. How did you find out about it? Because my bank bank has a credit alert, credit score alert, and it popped up that my credit

Starting point is 00:21:53 it had gone down, and I didn't even know I had a credit score because I have no other debt, and the first loan is just through my college, which does not a, does not take federal money. Doesn't matter if it takes federal money. They still report it. Still on your credit score. Well, it's not. That one's not showing up, the one that I knew about was my college. So it pops up, and you found it there, and you didn't say anything to your mother?

Starting point is 00:22:16 No. Why? Because she, we're not on the best. terms. I feel like she would just lie or cry about it. She kind of lied to my dad about it when I asked him about it. She was like, oh, yeah, I wondered about that. I don't know why. I've been paying it. Well, she hasn't paid a dollar on it. So if I confronted her, is your dad and mom married? No, they've recently divorced, which is kind of what started this all off. I see. Okay. All right. Well, there's two options.

Starting point is 00:22:53 all right and neither one of them are pretty i'm sorry okay one is uh you get in touch with the servicing company the servicing the student loan and you turn it over as um identity theft okay okay that someone stole my identity and opened a student loan in my name and that someone happens to sadly be my mother and i did not sign this debt. You're very sure you did not sign that one, right? Yes. Okay. That would entail taking out a police report and reporting her to law enforcement for being a criminal. Because she is, by the way, a criminal. Okay. Stealing money using my taxpayer dollars. I'm the one freaking paying this.

Starting point is 00:23:49 Okay. Pisses me off because your mother's scumming. she's a criminal so you got to put her in that bucket and then file a police report the second option is equally as ugly shut up and pay it i don't like either one of them do you no not at all i'm sorry but this is what happens you know with this ridiculous student loan program that we have now so if you want to dig into it you can spend a lot of energy and calories and figure out who signed it, but someone signed it, and you're either going to see your little signature there and you forgot about it, or you're going to see the criminal signature there that looks suspiciously like your mother's handwriting, and then you get to

Starting point is 00:24:36 still make this exact same decision. Either way, you get to make this decision. Before I reported her to the police, I'd be very, very sure that you didn't sign it, though. Yeah. But I don't know that they'll put her in jail. I doubt it. I wish they would. put some people in jail for doing this kind of crap, particularly people who steal their own children's identity for their own personal benefit of some kind, and then cry about it. You know, I robbed a bank.

Starting point is 00:25:05 I'm going to cry about it. I'm so sorry. I don't want to go to jail. I robbed a bank. Oh, my God. I mean, it's true. It's true, Amanda. It sounds like you're kind of used to this type of behavior.

Starting point is 00:25:19 Yeah, like your mother's nuts. Like this is a pattern. It's not just one event. that's taken place, and we're here to tell you that this is really bad. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry that you're having to face this at 23 freaking years old and decide what you're doing. I can tell you this, okay? If you want to dig into it, you decide to pay it because I got a feeling that's what you're going to do.

Starting point is 00:25:44 Not sure it's what I would do, but I've got a feeling that's what you're going to do. And I'm not judging you either way because neither one of these are good options. I'm telling you that. But I would have a conversation with your mother in person and say, But if you ever, under any circumstances, think about, if it even crosses your mind to use my name to borrow money, ever again, go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200. I'm going to send your butt straight to jail. Now, you'll be a little bit nicer than that, but not much.

Starting point is 00:26:14 I was going to say, I don't know if you'd be much. I'm going to set the table, okay, to where this never happens again, because it's cost you $21,000 to deal with your family dysfunction if you decide to pay it. You don't have to pay it if you didn't sign it. You are not liable for something you didn't sign. Your parents do not have power of attorney over you because they bred you. That is not how the legal system works. Okay.

Starting point is 00:26:40 And so unless you have signed a power of attorney, they cannot sign your name, period. And saying something firm is not mean. I know what I'm saying? But I was being pretty sarcastic and crazy there. I don't know. I think I would be very, very clear. Very clear. If you ever use my name again, go to jail, mom.

Starting point is 00:27:01 I'm not going to screw around. You stay away from me. Yeah. Yeah, you got to lay down the boundary. That's what this $21,000 is going to cost you. Yeah. I wish they would try it. Wow, that's different.

Starting point is 00:27:13 The ones that get me to, I mean, people at 12 years old, they took out a credit card on a 12-year-old. Yes. Happens all the time. $20,000 on a 12-year-old. Ruinning. Now to haul your butt to jail for doing that. Just sit it over there. Just set over there in the jail.

Starting point is 00:27:30 That's where you ought to be. Because you're stealing money and you're using your own child to do it. What a scumburger. Cynthia is with us in Atlanta. Hi, Cynthia. How are you? Good. How are you?

Starting point is 00:27:57 Better than I deserve. How can we help? Yeah, I make $94,000 before taxes. Good for you. What do you do? I'm an engine builder for the military. Very cool. Good for you.

Starting point is 00:28:11 Good, good. So you're in the military or you just work civilian for the military? I work in another place, and I just only do military. engines. Gotcha. Cool. Okay, good. How can we help?

Starting point is 00:28:25 I'm like $32,000 in debt. Mm-hmm. And I got, my home is paid for, and I got to pay for Jeep Wrangler. But I bought another car just to drive back and forth to work to save money. But I got like a lot of Zilk out of pay, PayPal. You know how you just don't want to spend your money. And I got a personal loan, and I just want to know what's the fastest way because at my job, I'm already doing like 16% in my 401K. So I have a feeling, do you have a stack of money saved somewhere?

Starting point is 00:29:06 Do you have money saved? I did, but I don't know more because after my son passed away, I just went on a spending street. And when did he pass away, huh? 2018 So you said you've got a bunch of So did you borrow money for the car that was cheaper, in quotes? Well, I got like a $7,000 car long. I left owning $7,000 on it now.

Starting point is 00:29:33 Everything is current, but it's just like I'm throwing my money away. I don't know why my money go. Half of the time, I'd be like, I make good money. Yeah, you do make good money. You make way too much money to be this broken out of control. Yes. But your heart was broken. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:50 I'm out of control, baby. I need help. Okay. Because I buy like $5,000 dollars for clothes a week. Oh, wow, yeah. Yeah. My dad used to say that half of solving a problem is realizing there is one. Cynthia, I think you realized it.

Starting point is 00:30:06 Yeah. Are you sick and tired of being sick and tired yet? Yes. Okay. Enough to change? Yes. Okay. Because I think you can.

Starting point is 00:30:15 You make enough money to straighten this. as soon as we straighten you out, right? Yeah. Have you looked at how much it is when you combine it all together, all the buy now pay laders and the personal loans, all that? How much is it? Yeah, like I got, I got them wrote down in a tablet at home. And so I got like, I came over y'all, came, I saw y'all like on New Year's,

Starting point is 00:30:42 the day before New Year, and I just went to write down everything that I had. Good. And I was like, I'm going to get my life together. Good. And I went, I came to the store to return some stuff. Okay. And I would like to put the money back on my debit card. And my friends, they did the first time I ever seen you go in the store and come out without nothing in your hands.

Starting point is 00:31:05 I said, I'm on a budget. I can't do it no more. Okay. So you created, did you create a budget or are you just saying you're on a budget? No, I created a budget. You did? Yeah. So what did you find?

Starting point is 00:31:15 Did you do it on every dollar? that's what I did it at great what did you find did you did you find tell us what you found that I was like having like I got $3,600 like into debt but I have like $2,200 left and I was like

Starting point is 00:31:35 where that money at okay my friend was like look on the floor you got shoes set up to the ceiling you don't need to put on your feet listen you wear your clothes one time give them away. That's a friend. That's a true friend to tell you the truth. So you've got $2,000 of margin every single month and it's just going to crap, crap, basically. And did I hear you say it's only $3,600 of debt? No, 32,000. No, I got $32,000. But like, when I pay my stuff

Starting point is 00:32:06 off a month, I have like that left, but I increased my work. I said, I'm going to increase my phone work. You're not married, right? No. Okay, what I want you to do is I want you to keep this every dollar app, and I want you to give your friend access to the every dollar app to be your accountability partner. Yeah, because she's a good friend. And tell her to bust you if you don't do anything except get out of debt. No buying nothing.

Starting point is 00:32:35 Cynthia, you have enough crap to last you for the rest of your life. Yes. If you don't do anything except pay rent, work, eat, keep the lights on. You can be out of debt in no time. Well, you don't even have rent to pay. My home is paid for. Yeah. That's right.

Starting point is 00:32:50 That's right. I forgot that. So how much, when you look at your budget, how much can you put towards debt every single month? How much extra? Well, I got like a $10,000 check coming on tomorrow. Okay, great. And so I said that I was going to take that and start it. Well, I got my $1,000.

Starting point is 00:33:12 Mm-hmm. Big step one. You're on it. You're on it. And then I said with that $10,000, I were going to take that because I got like $2,000 a back home taxes. And I need to just go on and pay that $2,000 and then just go on and start paying all my credit cards out of the smallest to the Lord. That's right. That's right.

Starting point is 00:33:32 So the other $8,000 goes to that. And then if you just continue to take, I think I heard you say you had $2,000 in margin every month. Do you take that? I mean, you're going to be done with this by the end of the year. That's what I want to hear. Okay. Or sooner. Or sooner, if you get intense about it.

Starting point is 00:33:47 Because something tells me you do have more margin than 2000. All those shoes and purses, why don't you put them on eBay? That's what somebody else said, instead of giving them away. Yeah, because it's brand new, basically. Yeah, let's put them on eBay. People buy that stuff, man. I'll pay big money for it. Yeah, because she's, this is not, this is nice stuff.

Starting point is 00:34:04 This girl buys good stuff. This is nice stuff. Yeah. I think there's a name brand, Cynthia laying there in your floor. Oh, yeah. Put that on Poshmark. Put that on the nice places. Okay.

Starting point is 00:34:14 Poshmart is eBay? Poshmark, yeah, is where you get the nice high-end stuff. Oh, used. Yeah. Okay, cool. All right, there you go. See, I don't know this because I don't do that. But, yeah, good.

Starting point is 00:34:24 Very good. Hey, Cynthia, I think you already had a pretty good plan before you called us. Okay. You were working the stuff we teach exactly the way we teach. Everything we asked you, you answered the way we would have told you to do it. I'm very impressed with you. Thank you. Okay.

Starting point is 00:34:42 Now, do it, okay? Okay. Be, you know, act like your friends standing in your back pocket and say, no screwing around, time to be a grown up, no buying stuff. Don't be walking in, don't even go in a store. Drunks don't need to go in a bar. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:59 So just stay out of the store. You don't need to go there and don't get on some website unless you're selling something. All you need to do is sell stuff and work. Can I give her my book yet? Can I give her my book? Absolutely. You're the prime candidate because your emotions were, were driving you. and this will just help you stay motivated even more going into the new year.

Starting point is 00:35:20 So Christian's back there, he'll pick up and give it to you. I think you're the first person I've given this book. That's good. Yeah, that's good. Thank you. And Cynthia, listen, here's the deal. When someone loses their son and their heart is broken and they make some spending mistakes, that doesn't make you a bad person.

Starting point is 00:35:38 It just means that your heart was hurting. You're okay. You're okay. But don't live the rest of your life this way. for you for your sake okay okay yeah you didn't do a bad thing you just you just heart was broken okay okay thank you yeah just go on and now let's go win let's get to get this mess straightened up and in his memory um instead of having a pile of shoes let's have a pile of money and get this thing worked out yeah that's a different change on that yeah because i got to tell you

Starting point is 00:36:11 the number of times that um emotions just like your book activate and sometimes it's a broken heart, grieving, the loss of a loved one, the loss of a relationship, the loss of a job, yeah, yeah, and sometimes it takes people a while, depending on the severity and the weirdness of the situation, takes longer than others. But, you know, the good news is something happened around New Year's for Cynthia. Clicked into place. And she woke up, and thank God, something popped up on Instagram, it was us instead of one these goobers that are just telling, you know,

Starting point is 00:36:48 so-fi, telling you go in debt or something, right? And she did everything. She already started doing it all. Yeah. It's very, very good, very impressive. Take those moments and run with them. Amen. I call that a God moment is what I call it.

Starting point is 00:37:01 Well done, Cynthia. You call us back anytime, honey. We're here to help you. That's what we're for. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. Jade Walshaw, number one, bestselling author. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Her new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is out.

Starting point is 00:37:29 It's official. You can get it now. We've been pre-selling it back through Christmas and everything, and now we are here and rocking, and it's going out the door. There's a stack of them on the table a minute ago. She's signing them over here, getting them ready to go out to folks. All kinds of good things happening. Jamie is in Tennessee.

Starting point is 00:37:46 Hi, Jamie, how are you? I'm doing good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yes, just something of my question, I guess, shorter. What I'm asking is, should debt keep me from getting married? So I am currently on baby step number three.

Starting point is 00:38:02 Me and my boyfriend have been dating for about a year, a couple months now, and we are very serious about marriage. He, unfortunately, does have about $8,000 in debt, And as we're talking about a wedding and engagement and all these things, we're just trying to make sure that we're making a good financial decision. So just trying to hear y'all's opinion on that. Yeah, I definitely would not say that debt should keep you from getting married. However, going forward, there are some things that you can do to position yourself better.

Starting point is 00:38:34 Number one, making sure you're having a conversation about not just the debt and the current financial situation for both of you, but how you see yourselves going forward. forward in the marriage to start getting on the same page if you're not already. So what is that look? Have you had that conversation of, hey, when we get married, here's the way I view debt. How do you view debt? Here's what I think I'd like to focus on. Do we align?

Starting point is 00:38:59 Have you had those conversations? Yes, we have. And I will say this past year has been a tough year for him because he had an injury and ended up losing his job. So those conversations were easier. before all of that happened and since all of that has happened which I understand he's become

Starting point is 00:39:18 a little bit more reserved and doesn't want to talk about it as much but I guess from my perspective I'm like well I need to make sure that we're entering into this on the same page even in the hard time very wise how old are you I am 28

Starting point is 00:39:33 good very good he's probably feeling some type of way you know when you've lost your job his confidence is not quite right and so it's probably defensiveness But as far as the answer to your question, you're right on track, Jamie. You'd have to be aligned. And here's why. The data tells us that the number one cause of divorce is money fights and money problems.

Starting point is 00:39:55 And if we know that going in, then we need to, what, avoid money fights and money problems? And what's that mean? It means we need to be aligned, which was the word you used, okay? It's a good word, Jamie. Very good word. And so we need to be in agreement about how we're going to handle our money. fact that he has some debt doesn't bother me if he thinks every time there's a bump in the road every time we hit a pothole every time things are stressful we're going to go into debt no no no no

Starting point is 00:40:23 no no we're going to find another we're going to find another solution okay or or that we're going to shut down and not talk about it if we hit a hard time which is kind of what you're experiencing now yeah so we need to get aligned and it you know the other thing we found is there's another piece of data I saw the other day that said those that do in-depth like a month or two several meetings of in-depth pre-marriage counseling have a very high probability of a successful marriage does not end the divorce because good marriage counseling will cause the divorce before the marriage happens okay it'll cause you to split up if you can't get on the same page and so going deep and going hard on that that would dig out all of this and be on the

Starting point is 00:41:06 same page and one other thing just to throw in there it's in the same data set that's out there floating around that we've been observing for about 30 years and you're very wise the way you're talking about this is proper okay you got a very good balanced handle on it and um thank you the uh is if you can agree on four things before you're married in depth your marriage is almost guaranteed to make it and that's money that's kids how many to have and who you know who's going to run the house well the inmates are going to run the asylum or not right and it's in-laws how we're going to deal with the crazies on the outside of the house that are kin to us okay and religion and if you're agreed on all four of those in depth

Starting point is 00:41:50 you almost always will make it okay can I also ask um Dave I guess from a male's perspective as well um how do I go about having these conversations with him right now um just like that just like that, just data. So data says that if we can be an agreement on the handling of our money and that's going to require us talking about it, then we're going to have a great marriage. The data says that, and I want to align with that so that we can talk about setting a date, let's get this done. I'm ready, man. And no, $8,000 is not a reason to not marry the guy. I don't ever want to talk to you about money the rest of my life. Shut up. That's a good reason to not marry a guy. I'm too lazy to work. That's a good reason to not marry a guy.

Starting point is 00:42:38 I intend to buy a new car every year and stay in debt the rest of our lives and you hate debt. That's a good reason to not marry a guy because you're going to be miserable, right? And I'm going to just add, I shut down whenever times get hard would be a time to maybe just push pause for a second to figure that out. Yeah, that is a guy thing in a lot of cases, but it also is a thing to figure out now and how we're going to deal with it. And you will. And you will figure it out. It's just figuring it out. Yeah, I think, but you're asking the right questions, but no, we have never told someone to not get married because of debt. We have told people not to get married because of what was going on that caused the debt. Right. Behavior. The

Starting point is 00:43:19 character, the behavior, the whatever's going on. And that, that's a good, that's, those can be deal breakers. But it's not just Dave Ramsey hates debt and you can't get married because Dave Ramsey said you can't get married. That's never happened here ever in 40 years of doing this show and nor will it. All right, Jake is with us in Baltimore. Hey, Jake, what's up? Hey, Dave. God is good. I hope you're doing well. How can we help? Yeah, so I'm 26. I'm married. We're debt-free, so praise God for that. My wife and I both work right now, and we want to buy a home that we can comfortably afford on my income alone since our plan is for her to stay home in the future while we build a family Lord willing what do you make um but in my area it seems like pricing what do you make

Starting point is 00:44:07 so high um I make 75,000 um yeah yeah Baltimore is an expensive market dude um I know what do you do for living the reason that we want to stay around I'm not saying you can't stay I'm just saying you got to decide what's going to happen here Okay, we want to buy a home on my income, but there are no homes in my area that we can buy on my income. That leaves you two choices. Get your income up or be in another area. Or do something dumb and buy something more expensive than you can afford. Well, or buy something where she's planning to work.

Starting point is 00:44:46 You know, lots of people do that. And you just, you know, we don't, what does she make? she makes about the same as me so together we make about one 150 or so okay so you and you can afford a house there okay well i like that you're thinking ahead because a lot of people don't do that agreed and i love that you're thinking that way of here's here's what we our desired future for this so that's very very smart but i agree with dave you're going to have to decide am i get is there a pathway for me to earn more money so i can save up this down payment and buy this home the right way or do we have to look at looking out of town and what does that mean? Are we going to be or are we going to say

Starting point is 00:45:24 we're going to buy a house instead of be at home? Yeah that also that's an option too. That's the three variables involved. You're cutting your income in half. You want to stay in an area and then there's house prices. Yep. Something's got to give. One of those three variables has got to move or two of them. So our last call are talking about affordability on homes reminded me of something. I look at Instagram about once in a blue moon and I happen to look down and somehow in my feed. Who knows how that stuff happens? Somebody over there does, but it's not me.

Starting point is 00:46:11 A guy is posting, a typical TikTok type thing on there. It was Instagram in this case. It said, I wish we could live like this today. It said, 1957, and it shows a gentleman standing in front of a home with blue jeans on and rolled up cuffs, a little girl, and a wife in a dress, and a car sitting in the driveway in front of their home. He said, this guy is a Ford factory worker, and he can afford a home, a car, and on a factory salary, and his wife can stay home with a kid. and I thought to myself how are you not looking at this picture this is an 800 square foot house

Starting point is 00:46:59 crack housing in Detroit I'm looking at the house it's clapboard it's not got a brick on it okay it's just cheaply built it's got one bath yes no microwave

Starting point is 00:47:13 yes it has no pulsating showers or jacuzis or skylight There are no racquetball courts in the neighborhood, and there are certainly not any pickleball courts in the neighborhood. There's not a place to plug in your Tesla. The new car in your driveway is one car, not two, a boat, and three sea dos, not six drones and a trampoline in the backyard. The yard is the size of most of you listening's house. Yes. It's 0.18 acres.

Starting point is 00:47:47 it's called track housing you can look it up okay they built them in tracks it just as fast as they could build them down through there to fill the factory workers to give them housing so they could get the factories open and running henry ford did it it's like he built model t's off the assembly line he built these houses to do the same thing it's not just ford everybody did it i mean all the factories that alcoa tennessee same thing for alcoa same thing happened in the exact same time but you know if if we asked someone that's posting that to live in that house and drive that car, which, by the way, had no air conditioning.

Starting point is 00:48:23 Yeah. Would have been straight shift. There were certainly no airbags. There was no disc brakes. The car was, you know, drive a 1957 car sometime, people. They don't make them like they used to. Thank God. Yes.

Starting point is 00:48:38 It's basically a lawnmower. We have lawnmowers that are fancier than that car now. He was trying to make a point, but he did it in a not very small way. No, the point he was making was inaccurate, is my point. Yeah, he got too, he went too dramatic because to your point. No, he was trying to say, you can't do this today. Well, that's right.

Starting point is 00:49:02 You can't do that. And you wouldn't want to do that. You wouldn't, you would not do this today. If we offered it to you, you wouldn't do it. You would say, oh, the American dream is broken. You want me to live in a tiny house? What he should have said, which is true, is God. gosh, it's taking me longer than I thought to say for the house that I want, and it feels

Starting point is 00:49:23 way harder than I thought it was going to be. And the master bedroom of the one I wants larger than this house. Yes. Well, that's why I say the house I want, because that is true. My forever house. It's taking people longer, and it's more frustrating. And that's okay to say, but don't, but to your point, over-dramatizing it, that's not going to help you either. Well, and to say that something's broken, it's not broken. It's different. It's different. It is different. It's a different. It's a different thing. And so there's two or three things. One is you've got to adjust, like we told the gentleman a minute ago, some of your variables. Yes. And say, okay, maybe mom's not at home. If you want to live in an area, you can't afford. You know, when I turned 18 years old, I could not, when I turned 24 years old, I could not afford to live in Manhattan.

Starting point is 00:50:09 I could not afford to live in most areas of Los Angeles. And that's in early 1980s. Understood, yes. Okay, because I didn't make enough. Yes, understood, yes. And so I have to look at that and go, I can't, the math doesn't math, as Jade says, right? Yes. And so that's the thing one. But the other thing is this, the thing that is screwed a lot of, I think the millennials and the Gen Zs have had a, I think they've gotten a bad rap.

Starting point is 00:50:41 And we are not saying, and I am not saying, that they're whiners. Right, yes. You've gotten a bad rap for being whiners. What I am saying is this, you're pointing at stuff like an 800 square foot house. That's inaccurate, number one. Number two, you can't point at that. Now, our last caller was not subject to this. I got to set that aside one more time.

Starting point is 00:51:01 But most of the time when someone's bitching about affordability, they've got a $1,200 car payment, a $200,000 student loan. And the car company, you know, Ford has screwed them. I got an $80,000 F-150. that's true and their pockets are full of Samuel L. Jackson saying what's in your wallet right I was wondering where you were going with that and now I got it thank you yes what's in your wallet yes what's in your wallet well record credit card debt yeah on those two generations these large banks have screwed these two generations and convinced them that they have to have what's in your wallet to exist and here's boys and girls let me tell you what's in

Starting point is 00:51:44 Samuel Jackson's wallet, a little wagon behind him pulling all the money he made from them commercials selling you crap. That's what's in his wallet. It's unbelievable. Same thing with the guy, the Capital One guy or whatever is. Oh, yeah, the tall guy, yeah. He does not live in the bank. I just, if you didn't know, he doesn't really live there, okay?

Starting point is 00:52:05 Yes. This is unbelievable, y'all. So these companies, car companies, you know, 20% of the cars that left the lot last month were over a $1,000 a month car payments. If you do that and you have record credit card debt and you have record student loan debt, of course you can't afford a house because you got screwed.

Starting point is 00:52:26 That's true. You got screwed by higher education. A stupid Congress keeps making these loans. You got screwed by Capital One. Yes. You got screwed by Ford and Lexus credit. Because you've got to have a car. You're going to have a nice car.

Starting point is 00:52:41 I have to have something safe for my children. you're killing me and and okay I'm I'm a stand right I'm a stand with you and I'm also going to stand on the other side because there's that none of that's helping you right if you have if you have you cannot buy a house with that you can never have been able to buy a house with that yes and then there's also the side of it record levels there's also the side of it where you look at it you go okay uh 415 is the is the median so even if you're like hey I'm going to be on the conservative side I'm looking at like 375 right I'm going to spend around $3.75.

Starting point is 00:53:15 If you make $90,000, which is over, over average, over average, over median, over average, not over median, you're still going to have because of interest rates and because of price, you're still going to have to put down way more than the 20, you know, than the 10%, the percentage that we would say. So you're still up against it. Yeah, but that's not first-time homebuyers. $415,000 is not first-time homebuyers. 4 and 15,000 of the median of all homes for sale, including mine.

Starting point is 00:53:49 Yeah, everything to get, everything considered. So if you take first time homebuyers, we talk to the 34-year-olds that stand on this stage and say, I'm debt-free, I just paid off my house. Yes. How'd you do that? I live in a town where 275,000 or 200,000 buys a lot of house. A lot of house, yes. And I make $60,000, $70,000 a year, $80,000 a year, and I bought a house.

Starting point is 00:54:12 for two hundred and something thousand dollars and i worked my butt off and i paid it off yes and it is not fancy yes and the town is not fancy yes and the car they're driving is not fancy and so you know but so if if you don't yes you cannot on an average income you cannot cannot buy a median price house you can that is true by the way i don't think it's ever been true it's not been true i'm simply saying that they're both sides of it are true if you get to the point like the guy in your Instagram thing, where you're over-dramatizing it, then you're never going to find the solution. Right. That's my point.

Starting point is 00:54:50 Oh, I agree with that. And that's really kind of what your book is about. Yes. Yeah. But debt is certainly not helping you. So don't get screwed by these big companies and set your sights on a first-time home purchase. Yes. Not a median home price purchase.

Starting point is 00:55:06 And it might take you longer than you thought. That's okay, too. It took Sam and I, and it's in the book, 10 years, Dave, before we bought our first house. Ooh, that's distressing. So that's why I get to say that. You want me to wait 10 years? Well, you got to do what you've got to do to be able to afford it. There's my point.

Starting point is 00:55:35 Ari is in Washington, D.C. Hi, Ari, how are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, so I just had a couple of changes with my income in the past, like, 14 days, and it's all coming down on me at once.

Starting point is 00:55:57 So I'm trying to figure that out on top of the fact that I don't think my job is going to be the best fit for me moving forward. So what was the change in your income? Um, so I was originally making about 4,500, uh, a month, but on top of my hours being cut back down to normal, taking away my overtime, uh, because they were short staff and now there's not, it's not short staff. Uh, so they cut that hours plus I signed up for the family insurance to cover the family. So that's taken a lot out. now. So what's your income down to? So my income is down to about 3,774. What do you do? Monthly. So right now, I am a banker. A banker. You like working the branch? Yes, I do. I work in the branch as a as a teller okay oh okay you're a teller and it's you and your family of how many um it's my wife and my uh staff son okay and what does she make um she doesn't make anything right now uh she just finished a uh c and a program in dc so so she's waiting to hear back for the

Starting point is 00:57:30 clinical's part and then she'll start uh applying for jobs there meanwhile She just had an interview today at a bar down the street. So she's going to try and do either serving or bartending. So meanwhile, we just been doing a door dash to keep things going. Okay. And does the door dash fill the gap to get you back to the 4,500 you were used to? Uh, no. We lost you.

Starting point is 00:57:59 You're going to speak into your phone, son. Okay, yes, sir. Can you hear me now? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Okay. So, yeah, part of the reason was I was getting 1,100 as well from a vocational kind of military educational benefit. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:58:16 But I failed one of the classes, so they haven't paid the next term. So I found that out like about a week ago, so I tried to sort everything out. So you're used to $5,600 a month, and now you're down to $37. There about, yes, ma'am. Okay. And- How did you fail the class? I it was I just was trying to do too much because I was doing the job and then I had Uber I was doing Uber and everything but then the registration came due like this week actually so yeah but I mean I was doing Uber you knew you were failing the class when you quit the Uber and passed the class just 11 her bucks a month that's more than Uber and it was just

Starting point is 00:59:05 It was just not poor, kind of poor time management, I think, to be honest. Yeah, I think it was, yeah. Tell us about your living situation. Are you renting, or do you own something? And how much do you pay a month? We're renting, and it's about, it's about, it honestly been going up the last three months, but this month it was 2000. Ooh, yeah, it's tight.

Starting point is 00:59:29 Okay, so 100% of everything we're talking about is income problems. and I understand how we got to every one of the different pieces of it now. Thank you for giving us a clarity on that. And so the answer is going to be 100% fix on the income side. And I don't know exactly what that is for you right now, but your answer is, you know, figure out if you can get the military to give you a waiver and restart the class and go retake that class. And maybe you can get a, you know, a pass.

Starting point is 01:00:05 on that one and get, you know, get them to give you a little grace and see if they'll do that. See if they have a program for a review on that and get that going again. And this time past the freaking class, of course, never do that again. And then the second thing is, what are you going to do to create income? Because it sounds like you need a new job, dude, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah, and I am looking at things. I was thinking about going into security for the meantime. The ultimate goal, ironically enough, is that I hope it's not technology.

Starting point is 01:00:44 He said financial sector. Okay, yeah, speak into the phone. You keep dropping the phone or something, I don't know. All right, so, yeah, you've got to create income, Ari. Got to. And she does, too. Both of you together have to do this. Yeah, and it's not, I mean, the first thing you do is get enough money to eat,

Starting point is 01:01:02 and keep the lights on, and that's bartending and Uber and those kinds of things. But those are not long-term fixes. No. It's not a life. You can't do that forever. It's not your way of life. Side hustle is not a way of life. And so what we want to do then is create a career path that's going to take you both.

Starting point is 01:01:17 To get that C&A stuff past, get that income will be a lot more than bartending. She's got her path is there. She's just got to see it through to the end. We've got to get there as fast as we possibly can. We don't want to stub our toe on that. And then you've got to figure out exactly where you're going and what your steps are to get there. So we're going to send you Ken Coleman's book, finding the work you're wired to do. It has in it an assessment. I recommend you take that. But you need to get very laser

Starting point is 01:01:42 focused on where you're going and exactly what the steps are to get there because you cannot wallow in this. You do not have the mathematical time. You've got to move forward. Alex is in Baltimore. Hey, Alex. How are you? Good afternoon, Dave. Good afternoon. Jay. And that's on your new book. Thank you. So my question is, my wife and I have been married for 18 years. We have two teenage children, and I recently started a new job where I am getting paid about 60% more than my last job. Yay! That's awesome.

Starting point is 01:02:17 Thank you. Thank you. What are you doing? Well, I actually, I am running a small trade association. Cool. And what are you being paid? 300K. I love it.

Starting point is 01:02:31 Way to go, dude. Congratulations. Thank you. So really what I'm doing right now is I'm looking for advice from you both on how I can pay off our remaining debt in order to, and words that you've used before, Dave, level up. There you go. Good stuff. Well, you know, we're going to walk you right through the baby steps. It sounds like you know them. Where are you? At this point, you know, I have, I put aside the thousand, as you recommended, and I'm targeting now the debts that we have, but I'm debating on, and one of the questions I have is should I be targeting based on the avalanche method or the snowball method? How long have you been listening to us? Listening slash reading for, you know, a little bit of time.

Starting point is 01:03:19 You got to know. A hundred percent of the time, we stay away from the avalanche method. We go with the snowball. And the reason is very simple. The probability of completion is much higher when you get feedback. Okay. And probability completion on the avalanche is very low. Most people don't complete it.

Starting point is 01:03:34 And that's why I was asking that. Highest interest rate to smallest. People say it's mathematically correct. It's not actually mathematically correct when you add in probability of completion, which is a math factor. Okay. Okay. And so snowball simple.

Starting point is 01:03:49 How much debt have you got, not counting your house? Not counting the house. Um, that's easy. It's about, uh, it's about 90K. Oh, what? Um, admittedly, 11 of it is, um, student loans and the rest is consumer debt and a consolidated loan. One loan. Yes, sir. Wow.

Starting point is 01:04:10 Was it cars in there? No, sir. We don't have any car payments. We haven't had a car payment in about 17 years. So you just put everything on credit card then? Oh, my God. Uh, without getting to the gory details, we had to make some. decisions, yeah. But you're used to living on 140, right? A little bit more than that, yeah. Okay, my math might not be mathing, as you said. That's all right, but you said you got a 60% increase, so let's just pretend it was only 50%.

Starting point is 01:04:38 And you put it all on the debt. Yeah, there you go. You're done in a year. Okay. You're going to feel it because you're not going to be living the life you think should be living at 300,000. Woo-hoo! Oh, crap. Yeah. In the same breath. Oh, I got to raise. Oh, crap. I don't get to use any of it. I'm going to clean up the mess from my past.

Starting point is 01:04:54 Been there. If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using every dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app. The plan is built right in. You can track your progress. You'll get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation based on what you're actually doing in the app. and that'll help you free up more money and work the plan faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step.

Starting point is 01:05:29 Start every dollar for free, download it in the app store or Google Play. Chuck is with us in Montana. Hi, Chuck, how are you? Montana, California. That's different. What's up, Chuck? How are you? Hey, Chuck.

Starting point is 01:05:42 Dave, doing better than I deserve. How are you, sir? Just the same. How can we help? Hey, just want to thank you for your book, The Total Money Makeover. my mom gave that to me, it seems like almost 20 years ago now, but really pulled me out of a lot of debt and bad financial decisions. Well, so today, I'm 40 years old, engaged to be married in a couple of months. Good. And it's my mom and I in my house. I owe another 140 left on the

Starting point is 01:06:19 house. I have a sizable cash savings. What I want to do, my, or so I'm, we're going through marriage counseling. The elder in our church is really pushing us to live alone for at least the first year. I like your elder. Mm-hmm. Me too. mom doesn't have anywhere to go she's retired so this was my plan and you could tell me how steeped I am but um to use the cash I have to buy another home and my mom has enough she gets enough retirement to maintain the current home is she is she ill no how old is she she is 67 she'd not have any money she just has um her her union pension and then social security

Starting point is 01:07:29 what's a total that's about 2,200 a month and the house did you guys buy it together or is it totally your name you pay for everything it's all mine okay what do you you make a year out um it's a range but my my base pay is 150 but it could it swings wildly up to about 180 and your fiance makes what uh about 72,000 a year okay um okay number one your elder is correct. You do not need to be having a brand new marriage with your mom in the house. She's 67 years old. She's not an 88 years old.

Starting point is 01:08:19 She's not an Alzheimer's patient. She's not, she just needs to have a life, okay? Be good for her, be good for you, and it'll certainly be good for your relationship. Good, good counsel. I like your counsel. Okay. That's number one. So then how to, then that's your, you're in agreement.

Starting point is 01:08:34 You're not arguing about that. So your question is, how do we get there most logically? all right so there's two things there's one is how do we solve the short term and then two is what is what what is a plan that is sustainable because likely if she's in good health in 67 i mean we probably have a 20 year or a 30 year time horizon here for her right i understand yes and so what is it we're going to put in place that she can sustain her life during that period of time And then you get to have a life and you love her. You want to take care of her, but she doesn't have to come under your roof ever necessarily.

Starting point is 01:09:20 And I don't think that you have the funds to float two homes. Yeah, you have the income to help her float an apartment for herself. And the two of you either live in this house or you sell it and buy a home that the two of you want, the two of you being your fiancé, not your mother. and I think some autonomy for her would give her more dignity and you as well. It's going to be super healthy for your relationship with your fiancé, your wife. And, yeah, you have to do that. And so, but no, I would not buy today.

Starting point is 01:10:06 I would just rent her something And if you need to help her with the rent Fine Now if you did that and she moved to a nice You know a nice one-bedroom condo that you rented for her That's just out of pocket for the rent That's not much money Yeah comparatively

Starting point is 01:10:24 Versus buying a home Okay for cash Now would you all then live in this house, Chuck Or would you all sell this house? No My mom would live out her days in the current home. No, that's not what I said.

Starting point is 01:10:40 I suggested moving her out. Oh, well, so the elder was saying that tried to do a year where it's just you and the wife, and then if circumstances changed and mom has to move back in, that might be okay. It's not optimal, but we just, we need that one year alone. Yeah, you do that's, that's bare minimum is what he's saying. What we're suggesting is don't buy a house for one year. Yeah. And if you can live as a couple indefinitely, you should live as a couple indefinitely, is what I'm saying.

Starting point is 01:11:21 Like I said, the house is worth $5.50. I owe $140 on it. I currently have saved up $130. If your mom was in a one-bedroom, nice apartment that you were helping her rent instead of in this house, would you and your fiancé stay in this house? Yes. Okay. Let's talk about doing that.

Starting point is 01:11:42 That's what I would do. If I were in your shoes, that's what I would do. She's not sick. There's nothing that you need to be there to take care of her. She's 67. She's my age. She's got a whole life. I'm 65, okay, come on.

Starting point is 01:11:54 Yeah. No. Listen, yes. And you've got to, okay, here's what I'm thinking, Dave. I'm thinking I'd get a job. And you got to get. 67. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:12:03 And, but Chuck, you got to separate from your mind. is what I'm saying, buddy. That's all. Otherwise, that's going to cause problems with the wifie, the new wife. You need physical separation and emotional separation. You're 40 years old. You're just getting married. There's nothing more evil about this.

Starting point is 01:12:19 But this is, your elder is giving you very good relational counsel. Except the part of a year minimum. I would just say, period. And then, but your fiance knows at some point, maybe you'll have to take care of your mom. Maybe you have to take care of her mom. Yeah, maybe. We don't know. You never know, yes.

Starting point is 01:12:37 We don't know what's coming up. But that's for better for worse. That's for rich or for poor. That's for in-laws in the basement and all that. Yeah. And so, yeah. So, but I'm not going to plan to be right back here in 18 months. No, that's scary.

Starting point is 01:12:52 No. If that, listen, if that was, if she, if your fiancé was calling me, I'd tell her not to marry you. 100%. Unless you had a plan for mom to stay gone. Yes. If she called in and said, my fiance. Once I'm having my mom moved back in in 18 months, I would say, nah, that's a pass, hard pass. We would.

Starting point is 01:13:12 Yeah, I think your elders being very sweet to you, but also giving you good advice. Yeah. Yeah, very nice. So anyway, we're going to be a little tougher. We're going to be a little tougher on you, buddy. And it doesn't mean you don't love your mom. It just means that this is the design is for you to go off and start your life. Let me just tell you, the chances of Rachel Cruz letting me move in with them at any point in my, me breathing.

Starting point is 01:13:33 the only chance I move in with them is in an urn in an urn on the on the on the on the on the mantle that's the only way I'm moving in with Rachel I'm just saying and even still you're in the laundry room you're in the you're in the pool house I'm in the pool house rocking the pool house I want to be in the sauna oh boy oh boy no it's not happening the Ramsies have pretty firm boundaries on this stuff I'm just saying very good and We love each other at a distance. Yes. Wow. Yes. Oh, Chuck, I think you've got good people in your life, son, and you've got a sweetheart, and you're a good man, and you've got a good job taking care of your mom. And, by the way, she's only 67. It'd be awesome if she went and had a thing called Life.

Starting point is 01:14:21 That'd be really cool. Sixty-seven is the new 47. Yeah, I promise you. I'm looking at it in the mirror. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Wins Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washall, number one bestselling author, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Her new book lands on the street today.

Starting point is 01:14:50 It's out what no one tells you about money. The key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there, done that, and got the yellow T-shirt. There it is. Love it. Open phones here at AAA. 825-5-2-2-25. Blake is in Rochester, New York. Hey, Blake, how are you?

Starting point is 01:15:08 Hey, Dave. I'm excited, but I'm also a little nervous. I'm a little scared right now. So I just wanted to get your feedback. We'll give it a shot. How can we help, brother? All right. So about six months ago, I bought a car in cash.

Starting point is 01:15:22 And about two days ago, the engine blew up. Oh, no. So I don't have a car right now. I spent $10,000 on the car, and I can sell it for about $1,000. right now. What kind of car is this? It's a Chevy Malibu. What happened to the engine?

Starting point is 01:15:40 There's a crack piston in it. So that's the issue, yep. Yeah, how many miles did it have on it when you bought it? They had 109,000 miles on it. Wow, that's unusual. Yep, yeah, it's just, it's unfortunate. That's the situation. Yeah, so do you have any money?

Starting point is 01:16:00 I have about $5,000. in cash. Excellent. Fix the car. Fix the car. Well, you don't sell a $10,000 car for $1,000 when it needs,

Starting point is 01:16:12 all it needs is a used engine in it. Yeah, what will that cost? You go to a salvage yard and buy an engine, a used engine. I have a couple buddies that are mechanics. The used engine is going to cost between $1,500 and $2,000, and the labor is going to cost about

Starting point is 01:16:26 $2,000 to $3,000. Yeah, that's a bit heavy. But, yeah, but I mean, My question is, do I spend, like, 60, 70% of the car's value then? Yes. To fix it up. Yes. Here's why, okay?

Starting point is 01:16:41 If you sell it for $1,000 now, you take a $9,000 loss. If you put $6,000 into it plus the $1,000, that's $7,000, you could turn around and sell it the next day for $10,000. I think I could only sell it for about $65,000 if it had nothing wrong with it, because It has 130,000 miles on it. I drive a lot now. I don't think a $10,000 car lost 35% of its value in the period of time we're talking about what the miles we're talking about. Is there anything else wrong with it aside from that? Very, very used car.

Starting point is 01:17:17 Okay? It's not lost that much in value. Besides that, you're still talking about you would at least get your money back. You know, you'd at least get out of it. And so, no, I think you can get more for it than their repairs. I think you've got to work on your repair costs. Get your repair cost as low as you can possibly get it in the labor and in the engine. The engine didn't sound wrong to me.

Starting point is 01:17:38 The labor did sound wrong. And so because what you got to do is you got to do this on the cheap. It's a cheap freaking car. So we're not certainly, you know, you're not going to the dealer and putting a $15,000 engine in the thing. So we're going to fix it. And then the only question is, do we keep it? Okay. You got $5,000 so you can fix the thing.

Starting point is 01:18:01 I mean, you've got the money to fix it. And you've got to, you have to. You don't have a choice. Otherwise, you're going to get destroyed here. And you may have a really serviceable car. What, what, do you happen to know what the engine is? Yeah, it's a turbo engine, four cylinder there. A four, okay.

Starting point is 01:18:22 Yeah, but the Malibu will hold a six or an eight, won't it? There's not a lot of space. I mean, I don't know. It would be tough to. put a six or eight in there okay i i'm not seeing that model in my head very clearly obviously okay so anyway yeah if i put a four back in it then that may be an engine that uh you know a little four cylinder that's cheaply built if that's the version of malibu we're dealing with here then uh then it may be something you fix and get rid of okay okay but um i i would try to buy

Starting point is 01:18:57 something that has um if i'm spending ten thousand dollars that has a lot more life than a worn-out four-cylinder engine on 110,000 miles, okay? Now, again, that depends on the vehicle and what we're dealing with here, but, you know, you need to research and say, okay, what percentage of four-cylinder Malibuze are blowing a dadgun piston? And now I'm thinking, okay, see, I've got old Malibu's in my head. I'm old. That's my problem. I'm thinking of an old, but that's a different car.

Starting point is 01:19:30 So, okay, anyway, yeah, I'm still going to fix this as cheap as possible because I think you can sell it for more than the cost of the repairs plus the salvage in this case, even if you turn around and sell it and buy something different. Then in the future, you're going to pay cash for something that has a lot of life left in it, okay? And I'll use an example, a $10,000 Honda Accord would have a lot. of life left in it, regardless of how many cylinders is, okay? A $10,000 Dodge Neon might not. Nothing. Okay? Like I would not do that ever.

Starting point is 01:20:11 So, as an example. So you've got to kind of think through, you know, how well, you know, how many of the old version of this car do we see on the highway? That's what I do. Toyota Camrys, you know, I mean, that's what we're dealing with here. And pickup trucks, you know, that kind of stuff. What is it that you see around? Then you know it's got some longevity to it. It's got, you know, when you're buying a $10,000 car, because all you're buying is transportation.

Starting point is 01:20:33 We're not buying sex appeal or fancy. Yeah. We're just trying to get there. That's all. Don't buy a. So. We're not going to be a Malibu or a Jeep compass. Did you do that?

Starting point is 01:20:51 Did you do that? I didn't. Listen, I've done dumb things. I'm glad. You didn't do the mystique. The mistake. The mistake. The Mercury mistake.

Starting point is 01:21:02 Wow, I remember those. That was a long time ago. Yeah. Wow. So, okay, let's talk about that for a second, guys. So here's the thing. That is not a way of life that we would sign you up for. Yes, I'm glad you said that.

Starting point is 01:21:17 That is a step on the journey of life, okay? And the step is I'm going to drive like no one else so that later I can drive like no one else. I'm going to wear clothing like no one else so that later I can wear clothing like no one else. I'm going to vacation, not at all, so that later I can vacation like no one else. I'm going to go to restaurants, not at all, so later I can go to restaurants like no one else. It's not a way of living. It's a sprint to get your butt out of the land of broke. Yeah, motivating you to go faster.

Starting point is 01:21:53 When you buy a car that is just a. get-around car are worse than his car, a hoopty. You buy the $2,000 hoopty. So Joe that works here, you know Joe, yeah. It was a point when Joe was working here, not this Joe, different Joe, that Joe was going to drop me off at the car dealership to pick up my car. It was being serviced. Okay. He pulls around front in a Ford 1994 Granada. Oh, oh God. Land yacht. Oh, wow. It originally had been red, but now it was slightly more like pink. Pink?

Starting point is 01:22:34 Oh. I got in the thing. The interior was pristine. He bought it from his grandmother for $700. It had 20,000 miles on it. She only drove it on Sundays. It had 20,000 miles on it. He drove this horrible car.

Starting point is 01:22:50 Wow. For a period of time so that now Joe drives whatever Joe wants to drive. I'm sure he does, yes. And as well he should. Caleb is in Jackson, Mississippi. Hi, Caleb. How are you? Doing great. How are y'all? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Starting point is 01:23:21 All right. Well, I've got a two-part question here. The first part is I'm getting married in two months. Congratulations. Thank you. Me and my future wife are asking about specific joint accounts we should be putting together. And then the second part, she is currently in vet school, and so we're racking on about $120,000 of student loan debt. So how should go about attacking that now? Okay.

Starting point is 01:23:48 Is she just starting it, or she's finishing up? She's just starting her second semester, so she is three and a half years left. So you're planning to go into debt on this? versus trying to avoid going into debt on this? Currently, yes. Okay. We're going to come back and talk about that. Let's talk about the accounts that you're talking about combining.

Starting point is 01:24:12 That was your first question, correct? Yes. Okay. So you need a checking account that you're both paid into. Both of your monies come into there. That's the account that you do all your business out of. You pay your bills out of it. You get groceries out of it.

Starting point is 01:24:27 It's connected to your every dollar account. You're probably going to need sooner than later a high-yield savings account where you would keep your $1,000 emergency fund or where you would keep your three to six months of expenses. Something along those lines is going to be what you need.

Starting point is 01:24:43 And that's really the main few things that's going to get you started. It's all you need. We have one checking account in my home. Yeah. I don't have one checking account. That's it. And that's really it.

Starting point is 01:24:56 Further along, you might do some other things, but right now that's really it. I want to come back and talk about these student loans because if I can keep you from going into $120,000 of debt, I want to do that. Are you already $120,000 or you think you're going to go $120,000? So we get about, it's about $30,000 a year, and so we're on track to, I think it will be around that by the time it's over. but I'm currently in some freelance work, so I'm trying to figure out how to up my income so that we can tackle that while it's still low.

Starting point is 01:25:33 So what is your career, sir? I am in sports broadcasting. Okay, and what do you make? Right now it varies depending on how many games there are, but around the 2 to 4,000 a month, but I do have about 4,000. four days a week they're open, so I'm kind of looking for another thing to actually make this more of a career, not just a hobby. Right. I'm glad you realize right now it's kind of a part-time hobby.

Starting point is 01:26:05 Yeah. Good. Okay. And how old are you? I'm 23. Cool. And do you have a four-year degree? I do.

Starting point is 01:26:14 I have a bachelor's of business administration. Okay. All right. Let's go get a business thing moving, and the sports broadcasting be a side hustle. um because obviously the games are very seldom if ever during the day okay the weekday and so let's go get like a job in other words and get your household income up considerably and then i bet you could come close to if you guys lived on beans and rice come close to cash flowing vet school right absolutely yeah i think that's the plan rather than plan to go into debt and develop

Starting point is 01:26:51 a strategy on how to deal with this debt that i'm planning to go in instead let's plan not to go into it how old is she she's 22 22 okay well um I mean a commender for being in vet school number one there's very few people that make it into vet school and make it out of that school that are not smart people it's a very very rigorous um a curriculum it's very tough you know versus a medical doctor has to learn one body and one set of anatomy and so on um you know know, vets have to learn a bunch of them. I mean, it's crazy.

Starting point is 01:27:26 And so, and they make really, really good money out the back side of this, potentially, usually. Usually, corporate has kind of invaded that space, and it's not as good as it used to be, but I've known veterinarians who made a lot more than doctors over the years, MDs. And so, you know, I think it's a great field of study. But what I'm going to do, if I'm the two of you is I'm going to figure out a way to live on nothing, make a pile of money and cash flow this puppy. I agree. And that's exactly how I would get at this.

Starting point is 01:27:55 Hey, and we'll set you up on every dollar as our wedding gift to you guys and get you set up free on it so you can get going. And the two of you sit down to do that budget and follow that stuff process. But man, if I'm you, I'm leaning in hard on the career side of things. And I'm going to continue to work the side hustle because that's the dream is to go that way. Yes. But I've been in broadcasting for 40 years, and I know a lot of sports broadcasters that don't make a living. they don't make a living if they're local okay i mean national guys national gals you know

Starting point is 01:28:30 they make a living and a few of the folks you know your local television station maybe that guy or gal makes a living okay but um broadcast in local high school games you don't make a living broadcast in small town college games you don't make a living okay uh that's a side gig and so until you get that break up into a whole other level and either end up on your local television station or some kind of a situation where you're able to, you know, actually monetize your sports knowledge, it may take a while. And so in the meantime, I'm going to go make some money and pay cash for my wife's vet school. And if you're a person similar to Caleb and you're kind of on this crest of, I see dead in the future, but we haven't done it yet, you don't have,

Starting point is 01:29:17 you don't have to go down the path, right? Yeah, maybe. Maybe, maybe. If you, if you, you're listening right now and your car's just broke down and you're thinking, I got to go to the dealership and get a new car. You don't have to do that. You don't have to put the repair for your refrigerator on the credit card. You don't have to take out the student loan. You can stop for a minute and think. What else could I do? What else could I do? You're not. If debt was not an option, what would I do? And that's the way you need to think of it. And then you start to become a lot more creative, and you start to realize you probably have more time than you're giving yourself credit for. It may not be as urgent as it feels. It may feel very urgent, but when

Starting point is 01:29:56 you stop and think about it, maybe there's some time there that you can take to seek out some other options. So that's just for somebody who's listening in their car right now or sitting on the couch listening to this thinking about going to take out debt to solve a problem. You know, that is a valid thing. And I forget that sometimes because years ago, I just said, I don't borrow money. Yeah, no more. And so, since I don't borrow money, it never occurs to me to fix an opportunity that's in front of me with debt or a disaster that's in front of me with debt.

Starting point is 01:30:30 And I, so I will never be able to say the words. I was forced to go into debt because I just, we're just, the car is just going to be in the driveway broken. Yeah. The refrigerator, we're just going to get some ice in a cooler, I guess. Uh-huh. Because we can't do that. We don't borrow money.

Starting point is 01:30:46 And so what are we going to do? I mean, I remember when Sharon and I were coming out of bankruptcy and we were so broke, we couldn't pay attention. I mean, we had nothing. We just filed bankruptcy. And the stinking roof on the house starts leaking. And worse than leaking, it's going through the light fixture over the kitchen table. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:31:07 And so water coming through electricity. It's not good. This is like a fire hazard, right? And it's dripping on our kitchen table to remind us. Every day. It's like, you're a failure, you're a failure, you're a failure, you're a failure, dripping on my kitchen table, and I feel shame like nobody's business, because I've just gone through bankruptcy, right?

Starting point is 01:31:23 And I'm like, and I can't afford to put a roof on the house. I don't mean money. So, and I don't borrow money, and nobody would have loaned me money anyway. I just got out of bankruptcy, right? Somebody would have probably, but I'm not that. I mean, I was done. So all I did, I just went down to the hardware store and got some of that black tar stuff. And, I mean, just looked like, why?

Starting point is 01:31:44 trash. I just went up and poured it on top of the house. Do whatever you have to do to make it work. And it stopped leaking. Yeah. And then when we put a roof on the house about a year later, I made a little bit of money and I got to where I could breathe, you know, and I put a roof on the house. The roofers like, what happened to your roof? Who did that? And I'm like, I'm not even talking about it. I couldn't borrow any money. Not even going to talk about it. Just shovel that stuff off of there and put a roof on it, buddy. That's just how it works. That's the way it goes down. Yes. And you have to, You know, we teach the baby steps, but the first, you have, if you don't mentally walk yourself

Starting point is 01:32:16 through the step, you're missing out. You have to decide, I am not borrowing money anymore. The same way you decide, hey, I don't rob banks, I don't steal cars, I don't, you know, whatever that moral decision or whatever, I don't borrow money. It's just a way of life. I don't burn villages. I don't plunder. Yeah, I don't borrow money.

Starting point is 01:32:41 Dale is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Dale. How are you? Better than I deserve. Happy New Year to go. Happy New Year. How can we help? So I got a job offer. I'm a paramedic. I got a job offer. It is a contract position on a year-to-year basis with a three-year projection. and I'm having a really hard time deciding if I should take that or stick with my current employer. Is it also in paramedic?

Starting point is 01:33:20 Yes. Okay, so you're staying in the same field. The only question is you're going to go contract. Now, when you go contract, do you lose all your benefits? I will lose my benefits with my current employer. I will get benefits on the contract position. However, they're not as good. Okay.

Starting point is 01:33:38 Okay. And what are you being paid now? Currently, well, I work the hours, I don't work 40-hour work weeks. I work, average 56-hour work weeks, and I'm about 85 a year. Okay. This job would be about average 42. It's 84 hours a week, but one week on, one week off. And so it's about 95, 96 a year.

Starting point is 01:34:06 Okay. Okay. So it's a better quality of life. Yes. And it's more money. It is. Okay. Is there anything wrong with the culture of the organization that you're thinking about joining, the municipality or whatever it is? No, not to my knowledge. They're good people.

Starting point is 01:34:28 From what I've heard, from what I know, it's legit position. Why would you not do that? What's the downside that you see? Just the stability? Is that the only downside? The stability, yes. So the likelihood of them not renewing your contract at the end of three years would be that they didn't need paramedics or you screwed up Christmas?

Starting point is 01:34:51 Yes. That would be the likelihood. Yeah. The other downsides, their 401K is like retirement benefits, stuff like that, isn't nearly as good as my current employer. and on 36 I got You'll be okay though You have it available to you and

Starting point is 01:35:10 You're going to make 16 You're going to make more money And you've got more time off So you would do what a lot of people do in your world And that's start a side hustle on those off weeks right I could yes I know a lot I mean you're not going to sit on your butt five days a week are you

Starting point is 01:35:24 No I would just spend time with the kids Because I work 3,300 hours for the year of 2025 Yeah but I'm talking about this other thing is an average number of hours. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so, I would still do something.

Starting point is 01:35:42 Yeah, I would have a side. I mean, I know a guy that's a fireman that, he made $80,000 last year on the side gig, you know, building decks. He has a deck building business, you know, and he just, he has people he subs it out to and he runs the jobs and goes over there when he's off work. And, you know, they're doing 72 on is what they're doing. But the same kind of thing. You've got a lot of downtime, and so that's what I would do.

Starting point is 01:36:09 How long has the other – why do they have a contract? Why don't they have just – why aren't they just hiring paramedics? Any idea? Because it's an on-site medical for a new construction. Oh. So what happens if the construction – if the construction runs out, you'd be out of a job. Correct. Will they assign you elsewhere?

Starting point is 01:36:31 When the place is built – I'm sorry? Will they assign you to another site, or is it just over, over? That one would be over. However, if there's something around, I could pick something else up if I felt like traveling, which I'm not going to because I got kids and school. That defeats the whole purpose, right? Yeah, right.

Starting point is 01:36:57 Okay, so what do you think the buildout is on this thing? Like, how long is it going to be done? Yeah, what are they going to be done? Three years. Oh, so you're out of a job in three years? For that one, I would be, yes. I mean, I could find another job pretty quick. The difference would be, you know, what's the pay going to be like?

Starting point is 01:37:24 My question is, the people that are contracting you for this job, do they contract you for other jobs as well? it's just that on that? They could contract me for other jobs. I've never worked for them before, though. Interesting. I'd want to find that out, and I'd want to, if you know anybody who's worked with them, I'd want to know have they ever contracted you for other jobs,

Starting point is 01:37:45 or has it just been one thing and that's that? I would want to know more about that because. I got to know where I'm going to land. If I want to do this, I've got to know I'm going to land in three years. They can absolutely contract me for another job. matter of location. I know. I want to know what that likelihood is that I'm going to still be able to do another contract at the end of three years. I got to see that. Otherwise, this is three and done. Three and done, this takes all the fun out of this. I would not do it for

Starting point is 01:38:20 three and done. But three and done and I got a 90% likelihood of finding something within a 40-mile radius. Okay, good. I'm going with that. Oh, that's not, that's not a problem. Finding another job in a 40 mile radius is not a problem. It may not be with them, but finding another position wouldn't be hard. Okay. So there's a shortage of paramedics in your area? Absolutely. Yes. Okay. Can I ask you a quick question? Did this job find you or did you seek it out? Like, were you saying, man, I got to get out of my current gig and you found this or how did it happen? Almost a little bit of both. I was kind of looking at something else or trying to find what other, what's

Starting point is 01:39:06 something else that I might be able to do. And I did not find this one, a recruiter called me. Understood. All right. If you feel really good that you can land somewhere else in a reasonable 85 to 90 range or above at the end of three years that is tolerable without having to lose your life again or having to move your family, then this is a good deal. If you don't feel good about that, then this is not a good deal. That's the way it comes down to. I agree. After all of this,

Starting point is 01:39:36 all this round the barn twice, that's really what this comes down to. All right. Frank's in Daytona Beach, Florida. Hi, Frank. How are you? Hi, Dave. Glad to get on a show. How are you? Honored to have you, sir. How can we help? Thank you. Yes, sir. My wife and I have been married, 46 great years, and we both work for large corporations, her for 28 years, me for 38, without changing anything, and pretty boring life, but we pulled it off. We raised three beautiful kids who are very successful. One of the issues that I have is that I have a nest egg of about $3 million, including a $500,000 house that's paid for, no bills, no debt. My question is, my daughter lives a few blocks away from us.

Starting point is 01:40:29 My sons have moved away. They're working in their own occupations. And what I want to know is, is there any way without taking a big tax hit to get my money out of my IRA and stay below the Irma and federal income tax brackets? I try to stay below the 24% bracket. Because I'd like to gift at a house, but I would also like to get another house, a house that my wife and I would see the end of our lives in probably. When you pull the money out of the 401k, you've already analyzed what you're going to face there.

Starting point is 01:41:12 You're going to have to keep it under the brackets and under Irma. And if you do that, you're going to minimize the taxes, but it's all taxable. As far as gifting the house goes, you can gift her the house. If you move out of this one, give her that house, and you buy another one for cash. You can do that for zero taxes with the Unified Estate Tax Credit. You can listen to that later on the podcast. Unified Estate Tax Credit. You and your wife have $15 million each of federal estate tax exemption in the year

Starting point is 01:41:44 26. You can use some of that against the gift tax and not have to pay gift tax on giving her the half million dollar house. with a unified estate tax credit. You have to fill out a form, not a big deal, and put an appraisal with it on the house, and then you've used up some of your $15 million each that you have by giving her that half million. And that one's easy.

Starting point is 01:42:09 The IRA, that one's tough. So you can see your tax attorney to figure that out or whoever does your taxes. If they're really good with taxes, they'll be able to do that in their sleep. Our scripture of the day, James 122, do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves, do what it says. Simon Seneca says communication is not about saying what we think. Communications is about ensuring others hear what we mean.

Starting point is 01:42:50 Our question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. when it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, Y-R-R-E-Fi can help dig you out with low fixed-rate refinancing and a clear path forward. Go to Y-refi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey, not in all states. Okay, today's question comes from Taylor in Washington. They say we have our emergency fund and have started paying off our car and our credit card debt, selling anything off that we're not using or that's taken up space.

Starting point is 01:43:21 We have two children under six, and I keep having to explain to them why we're not making trips to the dollar tree anymore, weekly trips to the dollar tree. My oldest noticed that I'm selling things and offered to let me sell some of her prized possessions because she thinks we need the money. My question is, when you were going through tough times with little kids, did you have an open discussion with them about what was going on? And if so, how did you have that conversation? You know, I might toss this to Dave a little bit because for me and Sam, it was just us. We didn't have little kids. It was us going through it. And nowadays, if I were teaching that lesson, and I feel like it's still something that you're ongoingly, you know, talking about.

Starting point is 01:44:06 For us, it really is just, number one, hey, every time we go out of the house, we don't have to buy something. Like, that's just kind of an ongoing thing. They don't expect to buy something every time we go out of the house. And then in my house, Dave, we're just really big on personal responsibility, period. So we have not had to address it in the way that she's having to address it. But I mean, immediately my mind goes to what Rachel Cruz says, which is share, don't scare. Share what's going on. You know, we're selling the things we don't need.

Starting point is 01:44:38 We're, you know, we're making good decisions with our money, not if we don't make this payment, we're all going to be out on the streets. Right. Like you don't need to go to certain extremes that they can't understand anyway. You know, four and three and two-year-olds, they don't understand it anyway. Exactly. It would sound more like this. It would be, honey, it's so sweet that you would want to sell one of your things to help. And thanks for being part of the family and wanting to chip in like that. But I don't want you to have to do that. This is something your dad and I are doing because we've realized that we had been doing some things wrong and we're starting to undo them. We're selling some stuff off. We're cleaning up some debt. We're managing our money. We're

Starting point is 01:45:16 carefully and so we're not spending as much as we used to and we're selling off some old things but we're okay everything's fine uh it's just a change and don't let the change disturb you but we're not going to the dollar store as much because we're trying to do this and no you don't need to sell off your stuff i'm selling off mine and your stuff's not your stuff's okay and the family's fine yeah like you said share don't scare move off and it's just it's your tone and the weird the weird thing is with little ones, and I just spent the week with ours, with our grandkids, less is more. They move on very quickly. In conversations.

Starting point is 01:45:54 Like, we want to go, like, get all philosophical and give them a seven-minute diatribe on it, and they wanted one-sentence answers. Uh-huh. So they can move on. Yeah, they really have something else to do. They're busy little people, I'm just saying. They do. Oh, boy.

Starting point is 01:46:09 Isn't that the truth? I mean, they just quit. I mean, I forget how short their attention span is. So you're just, you know, your tone, honey, dad and I are changing some things. We have been spending too much and we're going to spend a little less and that includes the dollar store stuff. But we're selling off some stuff, but you're fine and family's fine. Matter of fact, we're going to be absolutely great because we're doing these things.

Starting point is 01:46:29 And so it's a time to celebrate in a sense. And they usually completely change the subject. Can I have a snack? Yes. Yes. And move on. Don't use the word snack. That's like a sewer in front of a fish.

Starting point is 01:46:42 Yeah. All right. Here we go. Ann is in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Ann. How are you? Oh, my gosh. Happy New Year, Papa, Dave. Happy New Year. What's up? Is there going to be a Baby Step 5B with the new Trump accounts? No. Are you sure? I'm sure. It's not that much money.

Starting point is 01:47:05 Oh, but family can put in $5,000. Family can put in $5,000. into a 529. Yes, but this one can be a 529 and a Roth IRA. It can be anything. Yeah, family can help with all that. No, I wouldn't, I wouldn't use that. I would not be doing any of this.

Starting point is 01:47:29 I'm a fan of some of the things the president is doing. I'm not a fan of some of the things the president is doing. And I think this is a political stunt. I really, I'm not, we're not doing any. we're not no we're not changing for this it's not it's not that big a deal you've got other ways to save it's not as revolutionary as the original roth was it's not as revolutionary as the 529 is um it's none of those things and but it's a you know it's a way that somehow we can $1,000 you know and that kind of thing and yeah yeah you can add to it and family can add to it

Starting point is 01:48:03 but just um it's just spreading around to money to get people's attention to a political office I agree and I personally wouldn't do it I wouldn't fool with it I don't think it's worth if it's worth if you could do a lot with it it would be one thing but no

Starting point is 01:48:18 I appreciate the question though it's very interesting yeah I looked at them and I kind of yawned I don't think it's as big I don't think it's as big of a deal as people aren't making it out and I would agree with you

Starting point is 01:48:28 it's just kind of like a it's like a squirrel that you can chase squirrel yeah and it's like a money squirrel yeah something flashy to get your eye off or something

Starting point is 01:48:38 Yeah, I agree. Yeah, there's worse things you could do, but there's also better things you could do. Oh, it's not horrible. Yeah. It's just not, it's kind of like the Akerns app. Exactly. I can put in my spare change into an app. You can put your spare change in a jar.

Starting point is 01:48:56 Yeah. But I mean, that's not going to make you rich. A nickel here or seven cents there, you're burning more calories than that. Screwing with this. It's just crazy. The best thing, the best thing it will do is get people, thinking about investing in general, which I think that's good because I think a lot of people go through life and don't really even think about, could I invest? Could I one day create? If it gets you

Starting point is 01:49:16 off the couch and get you investing because you're, yeah, then I'm game. Anything that gets you going. Right. Almost anything. Yeah. This is not bad. It's just not big enough to be great. A big deal. Yeah. It's not huge. That's good. I was going to make a joke. Yours was better. Landon is in Dallas. Hey, Landon, what's up? Oh, well, not much. How are you doing, Dave? Better than I deserve. how can we help? Fantastic. So my wife and I are both debt-free,

Starting point is 01:49:43 and we are well on our way, just a couple of us away from our six-month emergency fund. And I am looking to start a, getting ready to start a hand-a-man-remodel business with a friend from church. And I want to know what steps we should both take so that we are both protected from potentially dumb decisions. I would not form a partnership.

Starting point is 01:50:08 Okay. Okay. That's the step I would take. I would just say, you know, we're going to work on this job together, and if you want to split the profits, that's fine. After you've done 10 jobs that way, if you want to formalize it and say, I work for you or you work for me, and the compensation is half the profits, but you own it or I own it, that's fine. Anything with two heads is a monster, and the only ship that won't sell is a partnership. It's a good way to screw things up. There's no reason for this to be a partnership, except that you've got a guy you like, and a guy you trust that you want to work with. You can do that on an employer-employee basis, or you can do that on a one-job-at-a-time basis without forming a formal partnership. But we coach about 10,000 small businesses, Landen, through Entree leadership.

Starting point is 01:50:54 The number of small businesses that a partnership survives over 10 years is very close. It's well under 5%. 95% of them are gone. The major exception would be law firms and medical practices. they do partnerships a different way, different structure, and so on, and they're much more adept at it. But two guys in a construction business still partners after 10 years are doing it, almost zero. Two guys of heat and air business, almost zero. Two ladies in massage therapy, almost zero.

Starting point is 01:51:25 You know, I mean, whatever the thing is that we need two of you. It's okay. You don't have to have it. You can just be, I share profits with a lot of people here as if they're partners, but we don't have any partners. It's that simple. Good question. good show jade it's fun well good show to the gang in the booth well done booth people that puts us our of the ramsie show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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