The Ramsey Show - App - Hard Decisions Today Bring Freedom Tomorrow

Episode Date: June 4, 2025

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From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey Personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend, Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Ruth is gonna kick us off in Salt Lake City. Ruth, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely, how can we help today? Well, I'm trying to figure out, I'm retired and I'm going through my finances and I'm trying to figure out whether I should have my children as beneficiaries or not since they ghosted me. Oh wow. And they ghosted me like nine years ago, so it's been a long time. I've reached out a lot, no responses. What caused the ghost? I'm not really sure. I set a boundary with my youngest daughter, who is a heroin addict, and older, basically she can't use me anymore, and I will support her in recovering or healing, and it ran from there. It did. Wow. So, how many other kids do you have?

I have four, but my oldest child died. And they range, my living children, arrange from 45 to 35. And none of them will talk to you? No. I'm sorry. I know that's heartbreaking. Devastating. It is.

Yeah. Yeah, that's just know that's heartbreaking. It is. Yeah. Yeah, that's just, that's heartbreaking. And for whatever it's worth, I'm proud of you for putting up a boundary with one of your kids. Thank you. We don't ever talk, we don't talk about enough the other side of boundaries is that when we can put up a boundary to keep ourselves safe

and kind of create the world we want to exist in, other people can just walk away. And we don't talk about that enough. It's like boundaries looks good on, on Instagram, but then it's, there's a reality to it. That's, that's, it can be heartbreaking. Really heartbreaking. And I do believe that the drug aspect is a part of it because I think that if my kids were in my world, they know that I would make sure their children were safe.

And in my humble opinion, you can't be an active addict to be a very good parent. I think there's truth to that. I think that's fair. I also think it's cruel. And they know that I would do something about that. Yeah. I mean, if you think that their kids are in danger now, I think just Not only as a grandma, but as a citizen you have a you have a responsibility to make a phone call, right? Yeah um, yes, but I Think it's cruel to give somebody who's struggling with heroin a big inheritance

Because it's gonna kill. I agree. It's gonna kill. I agree. So how much money are we talking here? well, it kind of depends. I'm separated and our home's worth, you know, my neighbor sold our home for 1.2 million, so mine's probably 900,000. So I'm separated in that possibility of a divorce and let's say down the road, a possibility of six to 800,000. What about in retirement funds or anything? That's part of that, yeah.

So you're saying you would have six to 800,000 to leave? Yes. Okay, and you're saying, hey, the kids won't talk to me, what do I do with this money? Yeah, and I wanna do right by God, and I wanna be clear about this. And I have eight grandkids, so my one child that died, they would get that child's inheritance.

If you don't specify that in a will, then they don't. So, I wanted to make sure that they would get that child's portion. Well, can you do something like, and I'm make sure that they would get that child's portion. Well, can you do something like, and I'm asking George this on your behalf, he's the expert here, but could she open up 529s and fully fund them for all the grandkids? Absolutely. Which specifies that money's going to be used for education only, and if they choose to not go to school, they just go straight into the workforce and never need any sort of training,

which is almost no job. But if they want to go to college, they want to go to trade school, they want to go to nursing school, that can be used for that. But if not, it just can roll into a Roth with the kids down the line. That would probably be something I would look to do. I would just- If you want to honor your grandkids. Yeah, if you want to skip a generation and not punish the grandkids, the grandkids hopefully can be trusted with this. And especially if you leave it on a 529

where it's for a specific purpose that will also make you feel better about this that the parents aren't gonna just drain this thing down to zero and use it for whatever they want. Leave it in, you'll need their social security numbers to open up that 529 for each of them. But that's a great way to sort of leave the inheritance, feel good about it without leaving it directly to the children.

Right. How old are you Ruth? I'm sorry. How old are you? 66. Why are you thinking about this right now? My first husband died so I know that that's real. I'm separated so looking at a divorce and just want to be responsible and just do the right thing, you know? Yeah, good for you. But you also sound like you might need a lot of this money.

Let's say you live to be 90. I might. Yeah. I mean, you got another 24 years to manage expense-wise. Are you still working? No. I was forced to retire early due to health things. I've got autoimmune and I've got arthritis stuff. I literally can't work. I would if I could, but I can't.

And I've been responsible my whole life. So, not, you know, don't do debt and, you know, careful, really careful. I was a little young and, you know, God took care of us, and we bring everyone welfare. You know, I just, it's, I've been really careful. I just want to do the right thing. And not leaving my kids out of their inheritance isn't for revenge. I just want to do the right thing, you know? Yeah, and if there's no communication there, and, you know, there isn't, and I've tried, you could leave it to the kids that you trust with this, even if they don't have communication with you, it's your money. You can do what you want.

You can leave it all to a charity and have none of it go to family. It's your prerogative. You're the one who has to make peace with all of this. Or you can leave it to a trusted, like an executor of your estate or executor of a trust who could have a written explanation of what you want done with the money. If my kids come and they prove that they're clean with six months of drug test or whatever,

then they get their inheritance or automatically this money, this executor would fund 529 plans or, I mean, you can decide if you think things are gonna happen on the road but there's also a chance you live another 25 or 30 years yeah and I could use it if you're gonna need it you're not gonna use it you're gonna you're gonna have to have it right especially my grandma's lived to be 96 I hope I don't but yeah that's the reality of it as well and I thought

about that you have a you mean you hope you don't? You have a whole third left to go. You're like halfway through the third quarter. You can't quit the game now. John, heaven sounds better. Heaven sounds better. I know, but listen, can I tell you something? Yeah. There are mothers right now, and I know this because one out of four, 25 percent of the

calls that come into my show are about estranged families. It's horrible. Somebody's cut off their parents, the parents have cut off their kids or whatever. Yeah. What an amazing resource you would be to a 45 or 50 year old mom whose kids won't talk to her anymore. Yeah. Or to a group of young parents, young dads, young moms, whose parents are too busy yoloing it up in their seventies and sixties

and won't talk to them anymore. You can start a small group in your local community and provide 20 years of just life-giving wisdom and kindness. So don't cash out on me now. You're still got it. You're halfway through the third quarter. You gotta play all the way to the end of the bell.

But yeah, George, this is her money, right? Yeah, again, you have to make peace with it. So don't do anything that's gonna leave you up at night going, oh, I shouldn't have done that. But get a will in place, work with an estate planning attorney, and get this done as soon as possible. And we'll be right back.

We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back.

We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back. California. What's going on, Lily? How can we help today? Hi, thank you for taking my call. My dad's car was impounded last October 2024. The car was not, it was charging more than the car was worth. Very beat up old car. We made the decision of not picking it up and, uh,

my dad is, it was going at the moment, still kind of is through very difficult financial situation. He's at 83 living only on social security. And now we are, uh, we see the, he received a letter from a lien enforcement saying that if he doesn't pay, uh, $3,000 because of accumulated fees, they will send them to collection and I don't know how to help them. I don't know what to do.

I had this happen to me once. I sold my car to my little brother and my brother, I mean him and his buddy, it was not a great car and they just destroyed it. It was pretty hilarious but they left it like in a field somewhere in nowhere, Texas. And then I got a call like five years later saying I owed $2,000 in storage fees or I could surrender the car. And I on the phone, I just said, Merry Christmas y'all got yourselves a car. And I hung up the phone. Like the car was, I didn't buy bought it for half that back in the day can they just surrender the car what was that again I'm sorry

can can often this this impoundment fees like it basically is a storage fee they'll they'll exchange the fee for that car, the old beat up car that he left there. Yeah, yeah. Well, the thing is that they picked up the car from the street because my dad had it. It was parked for more, you know, when it's parked too long. Right, but where's that car now? They said they, I guess they sold it. The company that picked it up already sold that vehicle. Okay, if they sold it, then there needs to be a, they need to apply that sale price to the impound fees that they charge you.

Yeah, they made some money, so that would reduce what he would owe. They can't just sell a car. Like, your dad would still have the title, wouldn't he? Yeah, he does, I mean, he does, but I guess the tow truck company that took it, once it's not picked up, it goes into one of those, I'm trying to think of a name, where they just sell the vehicles, the auctioned the vehicles that aren't picked up. Yes.

So what was the car worth? Oh my goodness. I mean, we were thinking it was worth maybe like 500 bucks at the most. It was very beat up. I mean, that's why when we got the, when we were sent the papers that we were gonna pay about 450 to just take the car out at that moment. It just, since my dad was already in a lot of debt, it's like, where do we pay that? You know, he was already having to pay other things.

And it just got worse and worse and worse. Now with all the fees, they're looking to charge you and threatening with collections. Yes. And your dad has zero dollars to his name now? Exactly. How much debt does he have? Exactly. Right now, the thing I just helped them, I just helped them finish off paying up the debt, but right now, because he lives in a condominium, they're doing special assessments.

And it's a whole other story with that, with how much he's going to have to pay for that. Well, he can't afford that either. Yeah, I don't know. I know the Lord will provide somehow. I mean, right the moment that when the car was impounded, he was owing about $6,000 for something else that I've been helping him out, kind of sort out his finances. What's your financial situation? compounded, he was owing about $6,000 for something else that I've been helping him out, kind of sort out his finances. What's your financial situation?

Oh my goodness. It's not as bad as my dad, but it's better. Well, I don't think he's the one to compare your life to. Yeah. I mean, I don't want you to fall into the same traps because you're busy trying to help dad, so now you're in a financial bind and this we continue this generational curse or you keep waiting for the Lord to provide but y'all are burying your head in the sand yeah no definitely and I found you guys this year so I'm really like getting you

know to do my finances the way you know you guys are you know advised. Okay but step one, step one of our plan is taking 100 ownership of the mess and not avoiding anything. So that might be that you call the impound place and we call this a stupid tax around here we do say that with a smile on her face we're not calling anybody stupid but you call them and say I got a thousand dollars that's all I'm paying for this thing, my dad's on fixed income, he has nothing. They will do somersaults and backflips that they got anything from you and tell them you already sold my dad's car, we still have the title of it, you took the car, you sold it, so for the price that you got for it and here's a thousand bucks, this

is over. Send me this in writing and I will give you a cashier's check period. Okay. You might have to help him out there but just get it done and then the condo stuff don't put your head in the sand on that because those fees are gonna pile up on you too and get crazy you're gonna be in the same boat except he's gonna lose his house. So let's take that sucker head on. So you've got some homework to do you've got to contact them and say, hey, I need the sale price breakdown proving that this car was sold for how much.

I need a fee breakdown of what everything you're charging me is for after the sale of the car was removed from that. And then you need to dispute or negotiate the balance. Okay. You're going to want to get a day, you want to get a day breakdown, a 24 hour breakdown on how they arrived at this $3,000 number.

They can't just make it up. And if they're charging you $70 a day or something stupid like that, then you dispute that. Okay. Should I go directly to the letter that I received from the lien enforcement or go to, I have the letter of the initial company that towed the vehicle. Yeah, I would trace it all the way back and get every piece of documentation you can

from the start of this to where it is today and who's been contacting you and keep records of everything. Who you talk to, when you talk to them, what they said, because these people will really try, I mean, don't give them access to any bank accounts and don't make any promises. But if you guys can negotiate on a price in writing,

say, hey, can we call this paid in full, off the record, if we pay this amount, this is all we have. And tell him, he's broke. He's got collections all over the place. He's 83, he can't pay. They got nothing to really go after here. And so they're just trying to rough house you and to get in a little bit as much as they can.

Okay, yeah, that makes sense. And Lily, I want you to hear me so clearly, this is for you and everybody listening. Conflict deferred is conflict amplified. Yes, yes, yes. Avoiding any sort of conflict, dispute, I don't wanna pick my car up, yada, it will come back to haunt you.

It's already turned into three grand. That's $3,000. And even if you get it down to a thousand bucks, it's a thousand dollars. Y'all could have just gone to pick up the car, paid 50 bucks and set it on fire in a parking lot. And it would have been cheaper than what y'all are doing now. Yeah, same thing with the condo,

same thing with his retirement, same thing with his insurance, everything he's got facing him, conflict deferred is conflict amplified. So let's just head into these problems one after the other after the other. He's lucky to have you as his daughter by the way. No, thank you so much. He's lucky to have you. Thank you, thank you and I love hearing you guys and I'm

I'm gonna apply it to my to my finances for sure. Good. Lily's, I don't want Lily's kids calling in saying hey my mom got her car impounded you're gonna break this generational curse. Hang on the phone we're gonna give you Financial Peace University I'm gonna hook you up and I want you to watch all watch all nine videos and begin to take control of your money. Sounds like your dad's gonna need you by his side in that back half. Yeah, I can tell this guy's been through a lot

and he's just kind of in la la land going, well, what are you gonna do? Yeah, the problem is just- The debt's stacked up all around him. Yeah, yeah. That idea that I'm just gonna not deal with this. I'll deal with it later. Like the student loans, they don't go away.

The car at the impound lot, the insurance premium we forgot to pay. Yesterday we talked to somebody, it lapsed two days and her husband died. Like this stuff just doesn't go away. We just gotta continue to head into it and head into it and head into it. It's brutal.

Absolutely brutal. So sorry you're going through this, Lily. We're wishing you and your dad the best. Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And between clickbait headlines and confusing data, it's tough to know what's actually going on in the housing market. So let's make these trends easy to understand. Median home prices went up slightly last month to about $430,000 and there are way more

homes on the market right now, nearly 1 million more, the highest since 2019. But in a lot of areas, still not enough to meet buyer demand. There's still some really hot areas out there. Real estate is very local and so the average 15-year fixed rate rose to almost 6% last month. And if you're financially ready, a small rate increase should not hold you back from buying a home you love if you're financially ready.

So to learn more about housing market trends, get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence. Be sure to go check out our hub at ramsysolutions.com slash market, or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. Andy's up next in Sacramento. What's going on Andy? Gentlemen, thanks for taking my call. Looking for some divine wisdom. That's John. You called the wrong show brother. Oh, sorry about that. A little bit of a disagreement between the spouse and I yes we'll solve it

okay well Kim holding you to your words so yesterday was our 25th anniversary I really tried to get on the air yesterday but couldn't get on but it regards our oldest dependent juniors a good kid he's gonna be a junior in college he's also in flight training he's following in my footsteps I'm an airline pilot he wants to do the same thing but it's expensive and I want him to have a piece of the pie. My parents had me pay for part of my education. I've been bankrolling it, cashing it as we go. We make good money. My wife, that's kind of our kicker. My wife thinks we make really good money and that she thinks he should start with a fresh coat of paint and no nothing holding him back. And I think he needs to pay for part of it, not right away, let him get his first job, maybe six months later,

start a payment plan back to mom and pops for. Oh, so this went from, I want him to have skin in the game to, I want him to take out a personal loan, unbeknownst to him. I want to be the bank of dad. I want him to have a piece of it, to wear some ownership in it, because college is one thing, he wants to be a piece of it to wear some ownership in it because college is one thing he wants to be a pilot great that's to the tune of about $80,000 on top of college to go through

all of your flight training. What was the conversation like when he was heading off to college? Was it hey mom and dad we've got it covered completely or he's got some scholarships? What was he understanding? Yeah, he gets a $15,000 scholarship. He's a smart kid. He was gonna do engineering until his last semester of high school. And then he hated all of his engineering classes

and we're like, okay, so now what? So now we kind of scrambled. He's always shown an interest in aviation. So who's paying for college now? You said he's a junior? Yeah, he's a junior. We're paying for it. Okay.

There's no loan. And that was the agreement. I want to know what was the agreement you handshook and said, hey, we've got this. There was no agreement. There was, I want, we'll talk about this down the road. There was no amount set, but I think we need to have some kind of,

especially with adding the aviation, because the aviation is on top of college. Yeah. Okay, but hold on. I feel like you're giving me two messages. Message number one, I want my son to have some skin in the game like I did, because it made me appreciate the scratch and clawing that is to be a new pilot and all those crummy shifts you're going to take.

You took it more seriously in class because you're paying for it too. But then I hear you saying over and over, man this is just really expensive. So have you, which is it? Do you want them to like have some skin in the game or did you already have, like you want to get them off the payroll

and have this $80,000 go to a new truck. No, no, no, I'm talking some skin the game like like $20,000 payable like two or three hundred bucks a month. I think when after he gets his first job he'll start out making probably 80, 90, hundred thousand dollars a year as a new airline pilot. I'm not talking I don't want to pay $80,000 and then pay for his college. I want just some ownership like I did. I was about $25,000 I'd pay back to my dad. It felt kind of good. I don't love the idea of you becoming the bank of dad. I do love the idea of a kid having skin in the game. I love the idea of maybe

for the rest of this summer and for the summer after his junior year and the summer after his senior year before flight school that he works for the business of mom and dad's house. And he earns, y'all keep an hour log or I don't, y'all figure that out. I don't love him starting the world indebted to you financially. You came along in a season when jobs were available, when technology wasn't threatening everybody's everything. I hate the idea that he would be 25 or 20 grand in the hole to dad. And then there being a hiring freeze or an economic issue or something.

And now y'all can't even be in the same room together. Or every time he takes a girl on a date, you're like, where's my money? Like, man. It changes the whole relationship. It's just haunting. I want him to call you as a friend, as an adult, to catch up and talk flight school and how things are going, not, hey man, where's my money?

Yeah. You missed last month's payment, where's it at? And so I just, I don't love the idea of this. I like the idea of having skin in the game, but can he work part-time while he's in training school to where you agree a cent amount he pays for out of pocket? That would be a better scenario. Yeah, I mean, he's working in the summer at home now.

He does work some during school. He has a lot of fun, I know that, during school. But yeah, I guess- Where is this coming from on your wife's side? I'm counting on you guys to back me up. Let me tell you, dude, I bought a car for $1,000 when I was in high school, and I put $100 down, and I thought my dad covered the other $900. He thought I paid it, and that $900, dude, drove a wedge between us.

I mean, it had a ripple effect that was way beyond 900 bucks. Cause I thought he and he thought I, and then it became this embarrassment. And then, I mean, it just became a thing on thing on thing. The guy then who sold me the car was a great man who passed away. It was the whole thing got sideways. It was over $900.

And this is way beyond that. And it worked out for you and your dad. Man, George and I would not have a job if every one of these things worked out. And so I can't in good conscience tell you to become a bank for your son and have him graduate saying, I owe you or you owe me. This makes me just sick to my stomach, man.

But I do love the idea of skin in the game. He doesn't sound entitled at all. You're telling me he's a real hard worker. he's got scholarships, he's a real smart kid. Nothing about this feels like he's just using you guys as a bankroll. No, I mean he's had a fairly easy past. Would he say that? Or is it easy compared to what you went through? Back in my day, uphill both ways, uphill naked in the snow. I think he would agree. He's a pretty humble kid. He has a

nice little Toyota he gets to drive. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it. Are you guys scared that you created too much privilege for him in a sense? I kind of am. Yeah, my wife and I have also disagreed on that. Okay. How does she feel? If she was on the line right now, what would she say to butt in here? She would agree more with you, which I was not counting on. Not going how I needed it to. I mean both George and I have accounts for our kids to go to college. I want to support them and also I I'm going to have an expectation that I'm going to preset with my kids that they work, they maintain a GPA and purchase your paratries.

So all that stuff's good. And Dave Ramsey did the same. He said, I will cover you to go to an in-state school for four years. Anything outside of that or beyond that is on you. And so I think you can set the boundary line, but I also wouldn't like go, hey, you're going to owe me 50 grand if you do this either. That also feels crazy.

Can I throw another option out there at you? Absolutely. And that way you can say, you didn't totally lose. You can tell your wife, oh, I have a third option. And that way we can all stay face together because I want to be on your side too, man. I'm going to tell her I called. Ask your son son who is a junior right? He's a junior now It's gonna be a junior. He's rising junior. Okay. I want you to take him out to breakfast this Saturday and I want you to say hey, here's the reality of flight school. It's $80,000 My dad and I had an agreement that I borrowed 25 grand from him and he covered the rest of it

I don't want to be your bank. I always want to be your dad but you have to have some skin in the game and so your responsibility over the next two weeks is To write me a proposal for what skin in the game is gonna mean for you and put the onus on him and that way when things get dicey three or four years from now when he's exhausted and doesn't want to do x y or z or whatever you all agreed on you can say hey you wrote the terms to this and I agreed to him. And so you're shifting the skin of the game on to him what is he what's the investment in this thing worth for him and

let him come back to you on that and it has a way of leveling the playing field when you're talking to an adult, a rising adult child. So give that a shot. I like that plan. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Wye Refi. Defaulted private student loans can feel like a wall you'll never be able to climb, but WhyRefi may be able to help you get over it. They'll work with you to explore a payment plan tailored

to your situation. So go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey to learn more. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey, may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Owen in Washington. Owen writes, My partner and I have been together for two years and have lived together for one. We frequently talk about getting married. I've brought up opening a joint house account to split

expenses for housing and possibly utilizing it as a savings vehicle, but this idea was shot down quickly. All right, you're dating well, Owen. We know how much the other earns, but that's about it. When is it time to share our financial situations, and when is it a flag if one partner doesn't want to share it all? If marriage is the path we're on, then this seems like a necessary first step. Yes, you should share financial situation before you decide to become roommate. Yeah, they're on step five. So he's talking about first step I'm like you've already we blew past that long ago. Yeah

Yeah, it's I would say it's the huge humongous gigantic Calling all cars red flag if you're considering a long-term relationship with somebody, you're considering moving in with somebody, which I don't recommend for multiple reasons, or if you're choosing to marry somebody and they won't talk to you about their financial situation. Yeah, huge giant red flag. And trying to get cute about it and being like, well, let's create a super house fund that might be like part this, part savings account, part utility, but no, cause then you're gonna be like, you talk about like Venmoing your spouse.

Oh gosh. Like, hey, I got Arby's last night for $11. So just Venmo me. Well, I got coffee. So it's only 238. Like, gosh dude. Just keeping score like that's exhausting. Oh my gosh, dude.

That's not a marriage. That will destroy the relationship. Back in August, I took out the trash. So you have to. Exactly. Jeez. So it'll never end. So when is the time to talk about this and share more?

I mean, it starts with values and principles before it goes into exact numbers. And currently, unless you're heading towards marriage and heading towards engagement, there's no reason to dig into someone's financial situation unless they're calling this show. So I think the reason they're shooting this down is because you're coming on a little strong here

with your business proposal of how we're gonna run this household. Without really any further indication, this relationship is moving forward. And so that's the worrisome part. But I would say as you're heading into engagement would be the time to get into specifics of, hey, before we move forward,

like I got another financial picture, are we on the same page? Do you have debt? Are we on track to pay it off in our lifetime? What are our financial goals as we build wealth together? But I feel like you guys have made a mess of this. So you gotta untangle this knot first. John, any suggestions on what this next conversation needs to be?

Well, we joke on the show about playing house. And when people move in together, even though all the data suggests otherwise, there's this idea that we're gonna move in together and we're gonna kinda like practice. That will create intimacy and further the relationship. Well, not even that, we're gonna practice marriage and see if we're compatible. And what anyone who's been married more than five seconds will tell you is every marriage goes through seasons where we would not be together except we're married.

And we have to figure this out. We're anchored to the same boat and we're gonna figure this thing out. And so this idea that we're practicing for something beyond just dating, it doesn't bury out in the data, right? You'd think that people who live together Their marriages are better. It's not right. They end up not being so when we say play house Really? Seriously, that's what's happening. We're pretending we have a long-term

Relationship or we're practicing for something But it doesn't work that way And so what I would say is to back all the way out, and it sounds like, I'm just reading between the lines here, and I'm speculating a lot, obviously, one of you is probably moving in because they like the benefits, the roommate with benefits, of the intimacy benefits, the split cost benefits,

and one of you was practicing for marriage. And so I think this is one of those, let's swipe an arm across the table, clear the deck and say, where are we? Or as the kids say, DTR, define the relationship. Look at me. Way to go, John, you're seven years late on this. I love it. That's awesome. One of my students one time was like, yeah, we're having a DTR, define the relationship. Way to go, John, you're seven years late on that.

That's awesome. One of my students one time was like, yeah, we're having a DTR tonight. And I was like, I don't know what that means. So it was good. Yeah, it was a long time ago. They probably moved on to new things now, but. I think it's still a good term.

But you have to decide what are we doing? What are we doing? But there's not a certain, well, you've been dating a year. Now's the time to have the debt talk. It doesn't work like that. No, and also don't be a weird randy person who's like hi. My name is so and so my net worth is this How much debt do you get? Don't be that weirdo either. Do you want to see my budget? Whoa

Where do you see my too soon? Yeah, well good luck Owen I hope you can salvage this and get them to open up and move forward in a healthier way Whoo, okay off to the phones. We go Kirsten is in Atlanta up next. What's going on? Hi, it's actually Kirsten. I have a question. Okay, good. How do I go about paying some credit card debt? I have roughly about six hundred total of credit card debt. Hold on one second Kirsten. Talk directly into your phone for me. I can't hear you. Can you hear me now? Much better. So you've got credit card debt.

How do I go about paying it if I only have about two hundred and something in savings and it's about six hundred total of those. And it's like really lowered my credit score because I think I forgot to pay one of the bills and I got a letter that said my account might be delinquent which is really bad. I need to contact the company and pay that. No, you don't. Yeah, you just, I hate to say it

and it's gonna sound so callous. So I'm only saying this because I care about you. You gotta go get a job and earn that money. There's not a magic way here. Yeah, I actually have like three or four job interviews this week. Okay, great. And I have another one tomorrow and Friday. Awesome. If they say you're hired, say can I start right now?

Yeah, I did say that. I said I could start immediately and I should hear back by next week if I got a job. What else are you doing to bring in income this week? Are you doing side gigs? So, the only other thing is I was selling stuff online on Macari, I've had a little success with that, and eBay, I'm trying to sell a dress that's a free people dress that's worth maybe 100,

and then I started a YouTube, but that takes a while. No, we need like money now. you have to get like a job job. So that means like I did this in December Kirsten. Here's what I did. I downloaded the Instacart driver app and then it let me go drive for money and that night I made money. I know Uber but I'm a pretty bad driver. Oh yikes. Yeah but you gotta do something. You gotta do something. There's no magic here. Just an example.

I'm saying we need money today. Maybe a bike or something. You Uber with a bike, not ideal. Yeah, don't do that. Better than a bike. That would be awesome. I'm just saying, find the things that you are capable of doing in your area

that can give you money this week. Not a hope for money later on down the road. Maybe dog walking. That's the best thing. Yeah, perfect. That's all I can think of. Good. Get on there today. You'll get healthy in the process.

But like put on Facebook Marketplace or next door app like right now, right when you get off this phone and start making money tonight. Like it's this. So do you mean like selling stuff or dog walking? Start dog walking tonight. How old are you? Okay, I'm 25.

Okay, how much debt do you have total? Just the credit card, maybe about 600 total. I'm not really sure. Okay, and you said you think you forgot to make the credit card payment. Yeah, I've been trying to log in to see, but I think I'm having a little trouble. I think it was one of those, so, so I have like the wrong payment method on file and I forgot to update it and then they somehow charged. How long ago is this?

Has it been more than 30 days? Maybe a month, 13 or so, which is really bad. And it's already affected your credit score? Yeah, it could also be I haven't been paying my other credit cards in full. Like I try to pay a little over the minimum, if I can. Yeah, it could be that too.

I think it's time to cut up all the credit cards. Yeah, stop. Stop. I know I do need to like cut them off. I don't have to pay them all off. Do you stay on top of your rent and utility bills? So I actually live at home with my parents, luckily. I don't have to pay rent yet.

So at some point I will have to. Okay. I want you to step into adulthood and get out of the cycle that you've created for yourself. And that means we're gonna cut up the cards, we're only gonna use money we have, and we're gonna create delayed gratification, and we're gonna get a job, and we're gonna climb out of this debt and stay out.

Stay on the line, we're gonna send you Financial Peace University. I can just bang my head on the desk, but I think you need to watch these videos and not just the clips on YouTube. I want you to watch all nine videos and do exactly what it says. From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show,

where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell here with Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Mary Ann is going to kick us off this hour in Ann Arbor, Michigan. What is going on, Mary Ann? Hi, how are you guys doing? Doing great. How can we help today? Good. Yeah, I was hoping I could get some help with our financial situation. To try to compact a long story, my husband

lost his job of 12 years, about six months after our first child was born. And we went through kind of a long period of unemployment. I ended up with an autoimmune disease where I can't work. I'm staying at home, taking care of our son. Um, my husband has landed back on his feet with a steady job that we're very thankful for, but we're not, we're not making it month to month. Um, we're making about half of the money we're used to making.

Um, we got ourselves into a lot of debt during the unemployment and with me not being able to work anymore and we don't know where to go. Tell me about your autoimmune challenges. Yeah, it was brought on actually by postpartum and I tried my best to work through health issues thinking it was postpartum and it was diagnosed as Hashimoto's which is a chronic, it's a thyroid condition. Yeah but it's exacerbated greatly by emotional distress, family stress, relationship distress right? 100 percent. Okay so here's what I want you to commit to, will you commit relationship distress, right? 100%. Okay, so here's what I want you to commit to.

Will you commit to something for me? Sure. Don't give up on yourself, okay? Because I can hear in your voice you have a sense of shame about your situation and that sets your body on fire from the inside out right? Absolutely does. Okay so before we get off this call George is gonna walk you through the money part of it I'm gonna hook you up with my friends at BetterHelp I'm gonna give you three months of therapy for free

you can do it from your house you don't have to go anywhere okay? That's amazing thank you. I want you to talk to somebody but you have to promise you're gonna you're gonna work not fight we, we're done fighting. Your body's exhausted, but we're gonna metabolize some of this stuff and we're gonna make peace in our body from the inside out and we're gonna talk to somebody and connect with the counselor and to connect with a therapist and we're not gonna give up, okay? Thank you. This is a right now, it's not a death sentence, it's not forever, okay? Thank you very much. All right. So where is your husband at with this whole thing? Does he realize that you guys are struggling and in survival mode?

Oh yeah, very much so. And what does he make? And what does he make? Growth is about 73 or 74 thousand a year take home after Taxes and our health insurance. He is contributing to 401k. It's $50 a week, which we've talked about Not doing short-term I know that's advised sometimes. So his take home after all that is about $4,100 a month. Okay. And we could increase that tomorrow to $4,300 a month if we stop investing temporarily. Right. His work does offer a pretty good match. I don't care if they offer bond bonds and lollipops at the end of the day.

You guys are broke. You don't have any money. Yeah. Building wealth is not the problem right now. It's survival. And so let's focus on one thing at a time. We'll get back to building wealth. I promise. So if he does that, what are your total monthly expenses as it stands? total monthly expenses as it stands? So I did the Every Dollar app and I put in just, you know, we've cut back for a one-car household. We don't go out to eat, we don't go on vacation, we don't have fun. And it says we have about $80 left every month which feels like a lot more than it is at the end

of the month. Okay. So you got $80 left over to throw at debt. How much debt do you guys have total? With student loans and credit cards, we have worked ourselves into about 35,000. We have not been able to pay toward it. Are you making minimum payments? No. So what's going on with these debts?

Okay, so we kind of tried to work some stuff out with the lenders and we just we weren't able to afford it just point blank period until my husband got back on his feet just over a year ago with his job. So are you guys behind on all these bills and they're sending them to collections? Yeah, yes, yes. Okay. We are, unfortunately we had a family member pass and we are getting some inheritance, we weren't expecting.

How much and when? No, it's gonna be around 75,000. So that does help with that. That we do plan to put it toward that. However, we don't know what to do. I feel like there's this huge monster looming over us of not being able to afford life. And I feel pressure with this money coming in,

being able to do the right thing. Let me get it straight. You have $35,000 total in debt. You're getting an inheritance of 75,000 in the next what? Month, six months? Do you know? Maybe two months, maybe three. Okay, so you're telling me that in 90 days,

you guys could become completely debt-free with $40,000 in savings? Yeah. Correct? It doesn't sound like you're confident in that plan. I'm just doing napkin math going, you guys just gotta get out of jail free card with this inheritance.

I know it feels like that. And then I just look at like, like we're not even paying toward our debt right now and we can't afford things. We've talked about possibly selling our house. I don't wanna get back in the position where we empty our savings again because it was terrifying.

You don't have any savings. Right? But if you had no debt and $40,000, why would you need to go into debt ever again? Your family would have plenty of time for your husband to work this job, which is admirable, possibly at a second job, which he's not going to see you, not see the kids, it doesn't matter, we're surviving right now, while also getting up at 4.30 in the morning and applying for

other jobs. But your income is not the problem. I mean, he makes more than the average American salary for a household. What's your mortgage every month? $15.79. That's not the problem either. So I'm confused. Where's the other $2,500 going every month? Because you said you're not eating out and you're not paying your debt bills. You only have one car. Yes. Our car payment is 390.

And then car insurance, you know, that, that sort of, um, groceries are about 600. I think you need to sit down with your husband, look at this budget and go, Hey, this inheritance is a blessing. It's going to clear our debts. It's not going to change our habits and behavior. What are we doing to make sure this never happens again? And part of that is going to be going through Financial Peace University so that you guys have some shared common language, some shared vision for what the future is going to look like and you're going to look back at this time and go, never again.

We're breaking this generational family curse of we're going to be broke forever. We're climbing out of this thing once and for all. So hang on the line, we're gonna send you Financial Peace University, as well as that three months of better help to get you guys through this. Amanda's up next in Albuquerque, New Mexico. What's going on, Amanda? How can John and I help today? What's going on, Amanda? How can John and I help today? Hi. So my question for you guys is, my husband and I enrolled in a national debt relief program

to help with some bills. Please don't do that. Please don't do that. So I just read on the total money makeover not to do that, but I've already been doing it for a whole year. So my question is basically, did I just mess everything up? Is it too late to get out of it? Should I just stay in since I've already been in it

for a year, I don't know what to do. Hmm. Well, I'm sorry to hear that you fell for the lies from these companies that say, hey, we're gonna solve all of your debt for you. And what they, I'm guessing here's what they did. Tell me if I'm wrong. They said, hey, stop paying your debt payments.

Instead pay us those debt payments. Let them come after you with collections and then we'll settle with them for a lower amount. Yes. Okay, so what kind of fees have you paid into it so far? Oh, since I've been on it for a year, I want to say probably around like maybe $5,000. Okay. So I would contact them and say, hey, what's the current balance in my settlement account? Have any debts been settled yet? What fees have been deducted? And how do I cancel and withdraw the remaining funds?

Okay. So no, it's not too late. Yes, there might be some fees, penalties, stupid tax to pay here that you're gonna have to emotionally get over, but the key is you can do all the things they're doing yourself without all the fees and without taking your credit score and credit report. Okay.

How much debt do you guys have? Probably around 125, that includes our house. Okay, so outside of the mortgage, that's what you contacted these people for, right? The consumer debt? Yeah. How much was that when you contacted them? So we enrolled with $34,000. They resolved what

they said is around $16,000. They've already resolved. Okay. And so you have the remainder left to go? Yes. Yeah. And you'll be able to do that on your own. What's your household income? We make, both of us together, probably around $7,100 a month. That's amazing. You guys have a great income. Why'd you turn to these people in the first place? What caused you guys to get desperate enough? I had lost a really good paying job and it took a huge pay cut and then I wasn't able to, you know, pay some things and then they started coming after us with lawyers threatening to sue us and I got scared.

I'm so sorry. Well, the good news is you take home 7,100 bucks a month, you throw three grand at this debt, it's gone in six months. Yeah. Ta-da! And by the way, can I make you feel better? I did the same exact thing.

I was in my early 20s. Well, That does make me feel a little bit better. I was in my early 20s. I kind of freaked out, called one of these companies. I called to check in like four months later and my debt was exactly the same. I just kept paying them money. And then I started getting letters. And then when I called the company, they were like, no, it's cool, bro. Just like, don't worry about the letters. And I don't know, none of it smelled right. And I just said, y'all can go buy a box of hair because I'm out. Yeah, they act like there's some kind of nonprofit charity that exists to help people who are hurting.

They exist to bleed you dry for money while taking your financial life and making you think they're doing you a favor. So I'm glad you at least caught it halfway through. Yeah. And the good news is... Yeah, I know. I wish I would have grabbed this book earlier. That's okay. Well, you'll file it under the stupid tax category.

We all have a thick book of all of our stupid tax stories, and you get to add to that. But call us back when you're debt free, and we will celebrate with you, Amanda. Awesome. Thank you guys so much. Absolutely. All right. Mark is up next in Tacoma, Washington. Mark, what's going on? Hey, good afternoon. My wife and I created an LLC and basically for any business ventures that we wanted to take and also prep for like another endeavor after I retire from the fire service. And so we are wanting to add our daughters to our LLC that we created.

So instead of having them as employees for this business, they'll be owners. I can save costs for the business and my daughters, more money for investments, more money for inheritance. How big of a business is this? I'm just starting it out right now. So it's just at the ground right now. And I'm just trying to prevent getting taxed to death. We're in the state of Washington and the governor and everybody else wants to tax us to death.

So I have my view of, yeah, this sounds pretty great. I think it'll work. I've taken considerations of, okay, how much, what percentage would they own or have in the LLC, but of course it's just my view. I'm curious what your views are, what your concerns that you see might happen in the future. Well, I'll let George get into the nitty gritty. The two big concerns I have, number one, is it's a lot of thinking down the road for something that's just getting started.

There's no assets yet. There's no money. And so if the company, I know Dave did that with his. His three kids are owners of the company. And so I don't have the nuances. George may know the nuances, but I know Dave is technically not an owner of this company. He's a shareholder, the single shareholder, and he's the CEO. He makes the decisions, but he's not the owner. And, but there was, what is it, 25 years or 20 years they did this before built up a pretty substantial business before they made that move.

And so, yeah, George, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, that was the part where I was like, well, I set this up for future endeavors. What is the business you're wanting to start? And does it make sense for them to even have ownership in it? Having ownership in it, I mean, one of the main concerns just like i went to uh... a workshop yesterday and the state brought in all the different like department revenues etcetera uh... secretary of state uh...

so the the one thing that i'm trying to prevent is uh... like eat you don't know social security is going to be there so i want to try and eliminate them having to pay social security if possible. How old are they? 22, 22 and 20. Do they want any part in this invisible business? Have you guys talked about this? I haven't talked to them yet.

I've talked to my wife about adding them, but I'm just trying to get all the answers to any possible questions before we even offer this up. My guess is before they become owners of a company, they have to have, they've got to be in the business. They have the desire, they want to work the business. Okay. So I'm just trying to prevent us like paying too much in like social security, unemployment, L&I, and of course, the mandatory long-term care tax that the state has imposed. And yeah. Yeah, I don't see this as being the tax hack.

I don't know what, was this like a video? Where did you even hear about this as a strategy? This is an idea that I came up with myself and just taking a look at it's like, well, do owners have to pay all these other? Hey, I don't think there's a world where it's like, well, my kids are a part of it, so I don't have to pay taxes.

So I would, have you worked with a CPA before? Do you have a tax pro that you trust? I'm gonna be finding one. Okay. You can jump on ramsaysolutions.com and click on Trusted Experts and we have a vetted network of tax pros that can help you with this. That's who I would go to. I'm not an expert in setting up LLCs for tax benefits and all of that, but I will tell you, I've seen a lot of people who saw a TikTok about how they can get their six-year-old to model and they can pay them $30,000 a year and it's a hack of the wealthy.

And that's, I just call BS on that and it's a good way to get audited. Now, your daughters are obviously grown, so the new concern is, why would they wanna work in a business that doesn't exist with the promise of a paycheck one day? I would just go, hey, I'm gonna build the business on my own

and if they feel called to it later on down the road, they're welcome to be a part of it. That's how I would approach it personally. Or even at the well no they're already they're already growing up. I had a whole other idea if they were really young but they're not so yeah. Can you pitch me the business in 15 seconds? Yeah what's the business? Going in flushing tankless water heaters. Not everybody knows that tankless water heaters need to be serviced, flushed annually. That's a great idea. I would hire you to do that in my house.

Okay. I love it. Next part. I'm in Tennessee. We don't have all those taxes here. So. Yeah. See if you can do it. See if you can make money. And if they get excited about the prospect of being a part of this, invite them in on it and then figure out what are the tax implications now? Is it better or worse? Who knows what? But I think the CPA is a great start and then getting this business off the ground is the next step. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Dr. John Deloney. And before we get to another call, John, I want to bring your attention to this article from The Atlantic.

Here's the headline. There are two kinds of credit cards. And the writer talks about, you know, credit card balances are at an all-time high, $1.2 trillion. And, you know, the share of borrowers who are late on their payments has reached its highest point since the aftermath of the Great Recession. So we're in a real crucial point here with the debt cycle we found ourselves in.

And she goes on to say that this credit card market has now sort of divided. There's two paths here. There's two types of people using these credit cards. The one, the wealthy ones who have the generous benefits taking advantage of this. And then there's the other side, which is credit card companies offering expensive debt

to the poor with sky high interest rates of now a 21.5% is the highest average APR in decades. Geez. So probably the number one pushback we get from folks who when we say cut up your credit card is they always talk about, yeah, but I get free flights or I get free hotel points. And so if you go to Holiday Inn all the time,

and Holiday Inn, I have a buddy who travels a lot for work, and Holiday Inn is like a frequent flyer, a frequent rewards member, or you use Southwest, they give you points, that's fine. That's inside the company that's saying, hey, we wanna discount you further for business, that's fine. But when you're using these credit cards, and you get points

on flights and whatever, you showed this in your book, but here's yet another article detailing when you sit on a flight paid for with credit card points, a single mother who's trying, you just had emergency expense, is paying for that flight. The credit card company is not your friend. They're not hooking you up for using that. They're not like, hey, you know, you've used us a bunch. We're gonna give you a free airline ticket. They're taking from somebody who can't afford to pay their bill or who is struggling and they're taking that person is paying your bill. And so I just want people to think through, man. If you're using cards just for the, I get free flights every year, cool, but somebody's

paying for that flight. And that ultimately, I'm not trying to be goody two shoes. When I, before I worked at Ramsey, I had a move with a comp, with my company and the company is going to pay for the move, but I had to front load it. I wouldn't opened up a rewards card so I could get the flight points. And it wasn't until I was literally on the drive and I was like, wait a minute, who's paying for this flight?

These guys aren't my friends. And when I dug into it, I was like, oh my gosh, it's delinquent borrowers, folks who are broke and who are struggling, they're paying for my flight or my hotel. And I want out of that system completely. I don't ever want to be a part of a predatory system like that if I can in any way help it. So I just want to opt out of the whole gross game, man.

Yeah, and that's what the article breaks it down into, these trans actors. These are the wealthy, well-to-do people. You know, they pay their annual fees, but they're not racking up interest. They're not paying for any other charges. They pay it off every month. And then you've got the revolvers, which is the subprime borrowers who are using this as a short-term loan, can't pay it back, racking up 22% APR, who are essentially subsidizing the rewards

for the wealthy to-do folks. And so again, it's not a moral thing. I don't, it's not a like, you're still gonna go to heaven if you use credit cards, but to support that, John's like, ah, we'll see, we'll see. But the data that I broke down, and my book, Breaking Free from Broke, I did the research to go, I wanna see data behind this, kidding. John's like, we'll see, we'll see. But the data that I broke down, in my book, Breaking Free from Broke,

I did the research to go, I wanna see data behind this, not just John's opinion. And this is from the Fed. They said there's an annual redistribution of $15 billion from less to more educated, poorer to richer, from high to low minority areas, widening existing disparities. So they found this in the data.

And credit card companies, people say, well George, it's coming from the credit card transaction fees. And I dug into the revenue of Capital One and saw no, the majority of their revenue is happening through interest. And so we don't know exactly how the rewards are funded, but we do know the majority of the revenue is coming from interest and fees from the revolvers, the subprime borrowers versus the 3% they're charging business owners, which by the way, those people are also getting screwed. And just so we know, between 2020 and right now in 2024, $100 billion more credit card company firms, credit card firms made from interest payments.

It went from 76 billion to four years in seventy billion dollars in 2024. It's wild. That explains why they're sponsoring the Taylor Swift tour and we can't afford tickets to the Taylor Swift tour. That explains it. Thank you for that. And by the way, I love that this person called this out. Once you have one issue, your brakes go out on your car, suddenly you need to, you know, you're driving an old, old used Prius because that's what you can afford

and somebody gave it to you, but now your local community has another $100 because it's a hybrid fee and they don't have the gas revenues in your community. And suddenly you put something on the credit card. You just are like, dude, I have to, the washer breaks, your kid needs a pair of shoes for, made the cross country team and you swipe it

at 20 something percent interest. It's so hard to get out of that cycle. Once you swipe it once, man, it's so tough to get out of it. So man, if you can avoid playing this game at all, get out of the game, just opt out of the whole system. And I tell people, I say, hey, use a debit card and do a budget and you will make back more than 2% in rewards.

Just in how you spend. How you spend, yeah. And you'll be able to just budget for all the things you want instead of hoping to be blessed by these companies. So. This breaks my heart, man, because there's people trapped in this deal and I hate it.

There is, let's be honest, there's idiots who are like, what are buying burritos with Klarna or whatever. That person exists, right? But that's outside the bell curve. The majority of Americans are trying to make stuff got way more expensive the last five or six years and got way, way more expensive recently. People are just trying to survive

and they're swiping this thing. and it's once you get in that cycle man it is tough tough to get out of it's like a rip current mmm all right let's go to the phones Paul is in Miami up next what's going on Paul what's up I had a question in regards to what I should do in terms of life insurance and waste some of my money. Okay. I currently have a term, life insurance, a 20-year term policy. But I also do have a VUL policy. Who sold you that? Who hates you that much?

What enemies have you made? I was kind of scared that you guys were going to say that. I didn't know too much about it. I've only had it for about a month and a half now. Okay. But I've been reading a little bit more into it. My fiance, she got information about this and I have my Roth IRA, but I kind of got convinced to do this also, but I was a little skeptical about it just because the mixing

and life insurance policy with investing my money. Yeah, for those who are listening, let's explain Paul, it's a variable universal life policy is what you signed up for. Correct. And it's a type of permanent life insurance that does include a cash value portion that is invested.

Correct. Okay, so your fiance got information about this this she has one and now you have one too Correct. Okay, and you've had it for a month and a half or so Roughly. Yeah. Okay. And what's the policy? What's the face value of the policy? So for them for the death benefit, yeah So for the death benefit, it's $200,000 for the life policy. And what's it cost? And the term is about $230 a month. And how much do you have in term?

The term is $500,000 for the death benefit and that's about $ something dollars a month. Wow, so you're telling me, you're telling the nation that it's 10 times less expensive to get term life with over double the value? Correct. Okay, just making sure you heard that in front of everyone. So what's it gonna cost to get out of this policy? Or are you trying to convince me that you wanna stay in it?

No, on the contrary. The reason why I kind of like gave it a chance is cause they, the way they explained it to me about how they also invest the money that we're putting into it is kind of like you got both with one, you know, you do pay your life insurance, but more, it's only for like an investment and then the returns for like a 30 year looks very similar to take a Roth IRA and like kind of returns. So that's why we kind of decided to, okay,

you know, like this doesn't seem like a bad idea. What they also tell you is, well, man, you got to stick it out for like a decade and then you'll really see the growth. But the first couple of years, you're mostly paying us premiums and fees. So here's what's gonna hurt. When you cancel this policy,

there's gonna be surrender fees and it's gonna hurt. Yes. There's gonna be a stupid tax involved, but you and your fiance, if you're gonna continue in this relationship, we're both canceling this thing together. Okay. Do you need to convince her? I don't think so.

I told her I was gonna give you guys a call, because you know that I listen to you guys every morning I'm over the work. Good. And then whoever this person that sold this to you, block their number and tell everyone in your life to avoid them, because they are not here to help anybody. I'm so sorry, man. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Dr. John Delaney

open phones at triple eight, eight two five, five two two five. John, let's talk about money and marriage. Yeah, those are two things you and I talk about a lot and we're just hanging out as bros. That's what we do. That's right. And we got two weekends on sound now for a money and marriage getaway,

which feature Dr. John Delaney and our friend Rachel Cruz. I sometimes make a guest appearance if they're kind enough to have me. And it's three incredible days in Nashville with your spouse, learning the tools to strengthen your connection, deepen your intimacy, and more. And this is, it's become one of my favorite events we do. There's something really special. It's by far my favorite event, yeah.

Everyone has its own like vibe and flavor and nobody leaves the same. That's right. And the proof is in the pudding. We usually sell about half the tickets for the following year right there at that event. But people will say, I want this to become a part of the regular rhythm of our life. We want to get away for a weekend and go reimagine it.

We're already working on the curriculum this year. It's gonna be all brand new stuff and I'm pretty hyped about it. It's gonna be awesome. Join us November or February. Early bird pricing is available now. Tickets start at 7.49 per couple, which if you know about these marriage getaways, that's a steal. We intentionally, yeah, everybody's hurting out there financially,

and it's $749 plus getting in Nashville plus staying here for a few, that's expensive. We know that. It's not for everyone. But we intentionally make it cheaper than every other event because we want people to be able to come. Absolutely. So go check it out, ramsaysolutions.com slash getaway, or click the link in the show notes. If you're listening on YouTube or podcast, it's going to be a good time. All right, let's go to the phones. Amy is up next and NYC. What's going on, Amy? Hi, thank you.

So I have a relatively small car loan, but for my income, it's pretty high. And my I'm in college right now and my mom agreed to pay it until my brother finishes college. Cause he's now using the car. It's a car I bought before I was enrolled in a bachelor program. Okay. And I did need it at the time, but then I got relocated to New York with a job I used to have. And now I couldn't afford a car to park here and the public transit is better anyway than

a car. Yeah. So you just don't need this car anymore and you're stuck with this loan. Yeah. need this car anymore and you're stuck with this loan. Yeah, so my mom's gonna pay it until for one year and then I'll still have a half or one semester in college by the time she stops making the payment. So who's driving it full time right now? My brother in Salt Lake City. But he's not paying the payment, mom is?

Yeah, mom's paying the payment, my brother's paying the insurance, so it still is a win for me to have him pay the driver. What is the win for you in this scenario? I'm so confused. Dude. The car is going down in value and it's in your name? The loan is? I feel like we're all getting high

on our own supply right now. So loan is in your name, the title is in his name, but mom is paying the payment. You can't triple stamp or double stamp? I bought it in a title holding state. So the state has the title, but it is in my name. Okay. But the win is that like selling it

basically always would put me still paying off a car that I don't have because I will be upside down in it no matter what. That's why I'm confused how this is a win. It's continually going down in value while you still have the loan amount. How upside down are you? For me, it's a lot.

I think I could make maybe 1500 for it and I owe 6,800. So you owe6,800. So you owe $6,800 and you think it's worth private party, $1,500? I think so. I went through a few different websites. How crappy of a car is this? I mean- I could sell like a Barbie Jeep for $1,500.

My bicycle is more, yeah, and it's not a great buy. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I really looked for a good car, and I bought it for $13,000, and when I bought it, I'm not kidding, there was nothing for cheaper that was certified with like a mechanic, you know? Okay, so what is your solution? What are you asking about today? Well, I was thinking I don't have a credit card, but I do have good credit. Please don't do this. Whatever you're about to say, don't do it. Are you gonna try to take out a credit card and roll the balance like and try to beat the 0% for X number of

months? Yeah, I won't if you tell me to stop. Okay, I won't. There's one way to do this. One. You ready? This is a a hack this is the Instagram YouTube hack are you ready mm-hmm get three jobs and work like crazy for six months and pay the stupid thing off it's killing you and by the way a hundred percent chance this blows up and ruins your relationship with your mom and your brother that's the only way that's the hack well I can't do three jobs right now. I already have one part-time and I'm a full-time student and I already like don't have a lot of time. Okay, you get to pick your poison. I mean, you're trying, you're gonna, credit cards don't offer

you introductory 0% hookups because they're your friend. They know that if they can get a college student like you, there's a 100% chance that something will go wrong with this car and you don't have any cash. The people who fall for this stuff are desperate. And there's a 3% to 5% transfer fee just to do this. And so you'll pick up, you'll buy a tire and then you'll pay the minimum

because something else is gonna come up. And you'll buy a tire and then you'll pay the minimum because something else is going to come up. And then mom's going to call and say, Hey, I don't feel good. Can you come visit me? And you're going to put, okay. And you're going to put something else on that credit. It's just how it happens. You know how I know it? Because it happened to me. It happens to millions and millions of people. Do you know how much more credit card interest, credit card companies make in 2024 than they did in 2020? No. A hundred billion more dollars.

Mm-hmm. Over just- Okay, so I've never had a credit card. They don't. So you suggest that I just never do one ever? Never, ever, ever, ever, ever. Explain to me why you would need one and how it would benefit you well, I Have a good credit and I don't have a problem like

Only buying things for the purpose of building credit. Yes, you do you have a car That you can't that your five thousand dollars upside down on But the situation I was in is you can't have a job in my old town without having a car So I really did pick a very affordable option at the time Because I made more money having a car than I think I would have you made more money You're I hope you're going to law school because you were great at justifying decisions I hope you're going to law school because you're great at justifying decisions.

Pretty incredible. Well, I mean, the public transit in Oklahoma isn't enough for you to have a job. No, I totally get it. I totally get it. You were trying to go from, I need a car to get from A to B to, I actually made money by going into debt

and being underwater in this car because technically my job provides me with more income. My car that I went to college with was a 98 Tercel EZ hatchback that I could barely fit in because I'm a humongous guy and it cost $1,000 and I sold it to my little brother for 300 bucks and he drove it to college until him and his friends all pitched in they Drove it out into a field until it exploded I'm very open into doing that in the future I was nervous about getting stuck on the highway with like an unreliable not-

I got you. I totally got you. I got you. Totally got you. I'm not beating you up for what happened. You made a choice and it is what it is what it is. What I'm trying to tell you is there's only one path out now and you can try. I'm just telling you millions of Americans are drowning because they just tried to move stuff around instead of clenching their fists and hitting right into the middle of it swinging as hard as they could. And I'm only telling you this because I love you. There's just one way.

There's just one way through. And dude, I'm like, I have a nine-year-old daughter. You're just my daughter just 10 years from now. And I would tell you the same exact thing. You just have a stupid tax of $5,000. You're upside down on a car that you don't even drive. And that your brother is leeching off of you. I love him, but he's leeching off of you.

And your mom's like, woohoo, I'll just kick in on the insurance, like whatever. And nobody's, everyone is losing here. Yeah, it is. And there's only one way through it. And that's just to suck it up and go get six thousand bucks and pay the stupid thing off There's two options. Either your brother buys it from you and he takes over and he deals with it Yeah, sell it to him or you come up with the difference That you're underwater on either through a personal loan or savings and you get rid of this debt

And you can punt it till after you graduate I'm just telling you there's gonna be a thing that happens between now and then. And you've already cracked the door to getting a credit card to solve your immediate problem. And three years of mom making minimum payments while the interest racks up and you continually go underwater, I don't like that plan either. So we need to have a come to Jesus family meeting and get this thing off your back. Just let's own it. It's not my car anymore.

I don't need it anymore. And I want to get rid of this debt. But don't try to scheme your way out of it through a different type of debt. It's as crazy as it sounds. From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell here with best-selling author Dr. John Delaney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Sarah is up next in Anaheim, California.

Sarah, welcome to the show. Hi, thanks for having me. Absolutely. What's your question today? Okay, so kind of backstory, I'm 43. I have a 56- old boyfriend. We've been together 20 years, live together 18. He's financially irresponsible. He's 56 and he's got maybe 8 to 10 thousand dollars in retirement. You just said that as though you just figured that out. That was incredible.

Like we've been together for more than half my life and I just had this discovery. How long has he been irresponsible? The entire relationship. Like we've fought, we've talked about money, we've argued about money, we've fought about money. Like he didn't even put money into his 401k at work until I finally cut my foot down. It was like, no, you're gonna, you have to.

So. Well, this sounds fun. Yeah. Can I ask you another question? Oh, it gets worse. finally cut my foot down and was like no you're gonna you have to so well this sounds fun yeah can I ask you another question it gets worse oh okay excellent you're gonna you'll I'll hand you the shovel back you keep digging go ahead okay so I just found out the bombshell is his mom had taken out a reverse mortgage on her condo took about half a million dollars out because her husband was having really bad medical problems. She had to put him in hospice and everything. So she took about half a million out eight years ago and I just found out she's got 40,000 left in the bank.

What does that have to do with you? He's looking at me and saying, we're going to have to bail my mom out. And I'm looking at him like, you can't even afford to retire. What do you mean? I, I know. How entwined are your finances with his? They're completely separate. We never, never combine. We don't even have a shared bank account.

Okay. How are you doing financially? I wish it was better. I have about $45,000 in savings, about $8,000 in checking. I put money into a 401k at every single job. So, I'm not- Do you have any debt? I'm not, no, but I'm driving a 15 year old car

that's got 220,000 miles on it. So probably gonna need a new car in the next couple of years. Okay, oh, go ahead, George. No, I'm just kind of getting laid to land. So you're completely debt-free, savings in the bank, you've been investing for a while, and it sounds like you're fed up with him. Yeah.

And he's trying to drag you into his mess and you're going, no, no, no, no. I'm trying to be fiscally responsible. And you've hitched your wagon knowingly to this guy. Actually, you all haven't hitched anything. Other than emotionally for 20 years. Yeah, you all just like played Peter Pan. Are you just Venmoing for like rent?

How does this work? I come and check for rent. We split the rent 50-50. He pays utilities, I pay groceries. Yeah. Okay. Does this sound like a romantic relationship? Oh, there's so many other problems with the relationship.

Like we, it's a sexless relationship. Like we haven't had sex in like, I don't know, nine years. We opened up the relationship like eight years ago to try to fix that. Yeah, that usually works. Whenever couples aren't working out together, just like hooking up with a neighbor always works. That's good.

That works great. Okay, so here's the deal. Here's a question. Like he's not on the phone to defend himself. His mother and his parents are having challenges. You're the only person on the call. Yeah. How old are you again?

43. 43. Let's just pretend you have 50 years left to go. You're not even halfway done yet. You cannot do one single thing about anything that's come before this phone call. Yeah. You're holding a pen and a blank piece of paper. You get to decide what story you write next.

End of discussion. Doesn't matter about him. He has shown you his cards. I won't marry you. I won't participate in life with you I won't do any sort of like I won't live in any sort of reality at all and there's probably a million reasons why partridge in a pear tree we're not gonna go through all that the only thing that matters is you're holding

a pen and a blank piece of paper. What do you write next? I mean, here's the deal. It's going to be hard to break up. It's going to be hard to, you're going to have the sunk cost fallacy. Like I've already given 20 years and I might as well just have another 50 miserable years. So when I die, I've got 70 miserable. You can do that and you can do that. And you can also stay in this thing, that's gonna be hard. The only options you have is a hard choice. Choose your heart. Yeah, I mean, I honestly, like not even a year ago, I was like pricing out what it would cost to like,

get my own house and get my own class. Hold on, hold on, I don't care about a year ago, I care about right now. Year ago's past. Yeah. I just have so much guilt, which is why I haven't left. Because I know if I leave, he's financially screwed. He's a grown man who's made choices for 20 years.

For 50 years. Yeah. Not 50. For about 40 years, he's made choices. Yeah. for about forty years he made his made choices any yeah i mean i i'm more out uh... i want to know i had it

come to use all of them six months ago and i told him i'm not happy that none of those talks matter which shock none of those talks matter they don't matter you had those for years in years and years and years and years. You had one when you decided to sleep with other people because you thought that would fix it. You had those when you were like, when are you gonna marry me? And he's like, oh you know. And you've had those and had those and had those and had those. They don't matter. It doesn't work. Of course he was

shocked by the way. He's got a great setup. Yeah, he is. He's got a sugar mama that's gonna take care of him. He doesn't have to worry about anything. And by the way, he's got a great setup. Yeah, he is. He's got a sugar mama that's gonna take care of him. He doesn't have to worry about anything. By the way, his family doesn't even have to worry about anything. You'll just fix it, you always have. Yeah. So what's the real reason you're calling today, Sarah? Did you want permission from us?

Did you want us to acknowledge that this is crazy? It is, yeah, kind of, and I'm just like, I'm overwhelmed. from us? Did you want us to acknowledge that this is crazy? Yeah, kind of, and I'm just like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm like, I don't even know what to do. Do you have any girlfriends in your community that you can just go sit down and just unload on? Just say, Hey, I need you just to buckle up because I got a story for you. I don't know what to do. Yeah. Okay. You need to do that. I, I'm not going to be on the hook for telling you, you need to leave this guy. That's your choice. You're a grown woman. Yeah. I'm not gonna be on the hook for telling you you need to leave this guy. That's your choice. You're a grown woman.

I'm gonna tell you the situation is profoundly unhealthy for everybody involved. And it's not your burden to bear. I know it feels like that. People are gonna be mad at you and say you were supposed to be there for me, but this isn't your mess. You all have been roommates for years and roommates move out.

Yeah. And roommates choose to stay. Just you get to choose, but I just want you to take 100% ownership. Not of all the things we should have said and didn't do and not. What am I going to do next? And whatever you decide to write is going to be hard. Yeah. whatever you decide to write is going to be hard. Yeah. You're going to have to choose guilt over resentment. And there's a lot of resentment that's built up over 20 years of you carrying the load. And it might be time to switch over and try the guilt lever

and go, I feel bad. This sucks, but it's better than letting this poison eat me from the inside out. But I want you to sit down with a friend, maybe a local counselor, and just get all of this stuff out, because I want you to go towards something. I want you to go to somebody who cares about you,

a new job, new relationship, a new safe place to live. I want you to go towards something. Don't just run into the night screaming, because you're gonna end up right back in the same situation. Hang on, Juan, Sarah, I'm gonna send you Dr. John's book, "'Own Your Past, Change Your Future' to help walk you through this.

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck, you're wondering where your money's going, your first step is getting on a budget. And our team is hosting free budgeting trainings this month where you'll learn step by step how to make and stick to a budget using our app, EveryDollar. Plus you can get your biggest budgeting questions answered in a live Q&A.

Spots are limited, so go sign up for free at everydollar.com slash webinar. Rosa is up next in Phoenix. What's going on Rosa, how can we help? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. So about two weeks ago my husband lost his job. That's so scary.

Communication issue with his employer who's also the owner of the company. It's a very small company and he's been working with Jim for over 15 years and he got fired over text. I make decent money but we don't have any savings. I have a 401k but our expenses alone are about $5,000 a month and it's just not enough to cover all of our expenses with just my salary. And I'm looking at getting a home equity loan, not a line of credit, but a loan, to hold us over and consolidate some debt until he can find some other employment.

How much debt do you guys have? It's not gonna be anywhere close. I have about 20,000 in credit cards. There's two car loans. One is about 18,000 and the other one's almost paid off so there's maybe a thousand dollars left on that vehicle. Okay, any other debt? Three 401k loans that come directly out of my paycheck, and that's about $400 a month, and that's about $26,000. Okay, so this problem started long ago. Even with two incomes,

you guys have been unable to keep up your lifestyle. Yes. So what's been going on beneath the surface? This job just revealed the house of cards that you guys have built, but it wasn't the issue. No, our relationship has been broken for probably 15 years. We bought this house in 2017. I was able to qualify for it under just my income. At the time we had five kids living in the

house and my big father who passed away. We're down to just one child. Two of our kids don't even speak to us. to us. But I don't want to lose my house. I'm going to ask you. Please, please, please. Hey Rosa, listen. You got a ton going on, okay? Let's knock these out one thing at a time, okay? Because real quick, what anxiety does is it begins to go and then, and then, then and then and it spools on us, right? Yes. And you haven't slept in the last week, have you? Not a lot. I know.

Please, please, please do not put your house on the auction block for a short-term problem, okay? Mm-hmm. for a short-term problem, okay? I want to not promise you but almost guarantee you something. Your husband has not told you the full truth about why he got fired. I've had to let... Well, my father's tax, it's been a communication issue between him and the owner and I actually know the owner. We've known him for probably the whole time we've been married. Okay, hold on, hold on. You're jumping right back into solutions. I'll back out. Cool. He got fired from that. There's one solution right now. He's got to get two jobs today at Walmart and at Home

Depot. And then he's got to drive tomorrow morning and he can apply for jobs later. Y'all don't have any money. This isn't the time for hacks, this isn't the time for debt consolidation, this isn't the time for putting your house on the block, because one thing you've proven to yourself over the last 20 years is something always comes up and the worst case scenario usually happens. So why in the world would you put your house on the block? Yeah, you understand. You take out this home equity loan, you now have a second mortgage, and your home is at risk. If you miss a payment, they take your home. Well, I make

enough money that I could cover. You just told us you don't. Consolidation's gonna pay off all these credit cards. No, don't do consolidation. You're just moving, You're just moving dead around. It's like putting Spanx on. It doesn't make you... If I put on a bunch of Spanx, it doesn't make me weigh less. Right? It just makes a particular pair of pants fit better. It doesn't make me...

They market these products to people who are desperate like you, thinking, this is gonna be the thing that fixes it all. That's right. Or it's gonna be a bandaid to get us to the next week. And you're gonna be calling back a week from now saying, we can't make the HELOC payment, they're threatening us. They're gonna take away the home.

We can't make our debt payments. So the solution here is number one, your income, and then your expenses. You said you have 5,000 expenses. Right now we're in survival mode. So all we can cover is basic food, utilities, our housing and transportation to get us to our job. That's the only thing we're doing.

Anything else is getting removed from the budget. And I can tell by the way you're talking, you guys have never sat down to make a budget. Still every single dollar where to go. So it starts tonight. We're gonna go here's how much Rosa makes. You're gonna pause all investing. Are you doing any investing right now?

I'm guessing you can't because you got three 401k loans out. I'm just doing the 3% that my company matches. I just lowered it. Lower it to zero. So I've started. Is it at zero? Okay.

You need every single dollar you can squeeze out of your income. Do you understand? So 3% matters, 1% matters. So how much will you be taking home after tax, after healthcare premiums? How much can you bring home every month as it stands today? Let me look real quick here.

4,000. Okay. So now we have a solvable problem. Our expenses are $5,000. How do we get our expenses down to $4,000 or less this month? And find out how much lower you can get those expenses. And then go, how much more can we make with husband working three side jobs this week, doing whatever he can to bring an income, swallowing his pride, doing the side gig, asking people, what can I do to serve you

in exchange for money, to cover the gap? He's not willing to do that. He's unwilling to work? He's applied for unemployment. So that's what he's been working on. He says he's been applying for job and he's had a few interviews. Is he an able-bodied man? He doesn't have a job yet.

Pardon me? Is he an able-bodied man? He's got some health issues. He's 57 years old. But he can go do something. I don't understand why he can swallow his pride and take unemployment, but he can't swallow his pride and go do two side hustles. Right.

I don't understand. Have you sat down and said, I need you to swallow his pride and go do two side hustles. Right. I don't understand. Have you said, done and said, I need you to swallow your pride on this one? I don't even say that cause he'll fight you on that. I don't have any pride. Can you say, hey, for three months, I know you're grinding, but we gotta go make some money. He's counting on this $320 unemployment.

That's what's going to save this? He's just trying to stick it to his old boss. And the moment he gets a job, they cut it off. How much are these cars worth? One is probably about, probably the $18,000. It's a 21 Chrysler. Okay. And nine is the 2017 Toyota Camry.

But there's, like I said, we only owe two more payments on that one. So that one will be gone. Well, what's the Camry worth? You can probably 8,000 the way it is. And you owe one. So you could make 7,000 bucks right there. And you could sell the other car and be free and clear of it with 7,000 bucks to get you a car. Could you go down to a single car since Homeboy's unemployed anyways?

I don't know that he'd be willing to do that either. He doesn't have any choices. So we don't hardly even talk. Okay, here's the deal. We can't help you, huh? You guys lit the house on fire and he's saying well He doesn't want to go he's warm and cozy Yeah, we can't help you if I mean if every option you're you're you're you're putting up against he won't he won't he won't Then at some point you have to decide do I want to be safe or not? And you if he is really as unhelpful and won't speak to you

and whatever as you say he is, you're in a situation that is unsafe. Get with some girlfriends in your local community that are friends of yours and sit down and walk through the challenges here. You may need to see a local counselor. You got big challenges ahead of you, but please don't take out a HELOC on your house.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. So many of you out there are sharing the show with people you want to see win with money. Thank you for doing that. And we want to make it even easier. So this June, we've got a brand new Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube. This playlist is filled with classic Ramsey clips like, what are the baby steps, how to pay off debt with the dead snowball, how to build an emergency fund and so much more.

So instead of going, hey, I guess I'll send a random clip from the show. You can send the friend, the family member this playlist and go, hey, this is I'll send a random clip from the show, you can send the friend, the family member this playlist and go, hey, this is a taste of what Ramsey's all about. So here's how to share it. Click the link at the top of the show notes to open the Ramsey 101 playlist on YouTube. And then you can text it, DM it, send it in the group chat and just say, hey, really enjoyed this playlist. Think you guys might enjoy it as well. And if you're listening on radio, we've got the playlist featured at the top of our YouTube channel. Just search for Ramsey Show on YouTube

and you'll see it there. So who's the person you're gonna share this with? Think about that person. Who's someone who could really use this information? It's one share and one step that could change everything for one person in your life. Juan is in Seattle, Washington up next. What's going on?

Hi guys, thank you for taking my call. It's actually a privilege and an honor to talk to you guys. Oh, you as well. What's up, brother? Well, I got introduced to the Rampy program about 10, 11 years ago. And right away I got term life insurance because I my bride and I, we have five kids and, um, but I didn't realize that it was going to be up in 10 years cause I thought I got it for 20. Um,

it's coming up to end here soon and I'm trying to do my due diligence and try to get new term in life, but I've been denied twice by two different places, two different places. Um, I do have a supplemental term with my work and I have a little one that I got through the N you know, leave the burden of having to take care of me or, you know. Why'd you get denied, brother? What's going on with your health? Well, the last one, I finally got clarity. The biggest one is my BMI.

I'm six foot four, 330 pounds pounds and I'm down almost 40 pounds. So, thank you. So that's the big one. You know, a little bit of high blood pressure. I'm right on the cuffs of diabetes. My doctor put me on the diet, which is helping me lose the weight. which is helping me lose the weight. I don't know what else to do. It literally scares me that there's something that happens. Well, can I just tell you, you're talking to just three dads right here. Me and you and George are all three dads and all of us have had that night where we're laying in bed like, dude, if something happens to me, right? And so I hear it in your voice.

If what you're telling me is right, that you're pre-diabetic or right on the line with metabolic challenges and you're already a big guy and you're obese and you're struggling with X, Y, and Z, can this be the moment that you say, I'm going to commit to being at my youngest kid's wedding? Because all of what you just explained to me, I'm gonna say this because I love you, is a solvable problem. Okay. It is working with, with you continuing to work with your doctor. You know what? I'm gonna hook you up. Train Well supports my show. It's a workout and a personal trainer in an app. It's amazing. I use it. My manager uses it. My wife uses it. Kelly, the producer of my show, uses it.

I'm gonna hook you up with three months for free, but you got to promise me you'll use it. Oh, I will. I will. And if you've never worked out before or if you're like me, you've been working out for 30 years, it doesn't matter. They'll up the game with you, and it's a personal trainer that walks with you, okay? But listen to me. Okay. This is a solvable challenge.

We've had calls on the show where someone's got brain cancer, somebody's got a heart defect, or a heart transplant, or whatever. That's not what I hear from you. Is that fair? So six months from now, you might be in a totally different man and reapply and get approved. Absolutely.

And so that's the goal to aim for. And I think this is the fire you need. You've got a great why. And this is the wake up call is getting denied for life insurance and going, my family still needs me. Yeah. Because the other option is be self insured. And it sounds like you're not there yet.

If something happened, you don't have enough assets and investments that could replace your income. That's right. My bride and I, we're still working baby step two. We have, because of my bride, you know, she's the neck of the family. We have about one month's worth of emergency fund and we're working the baby steps slowly but surely. And how long have you been following the plan? We initially came close to being debt free back in the very beginning of 2020. COVID hit us hard In the very beginning of 2020, COVID hit us hard and we fell back into debt. What does that mean it hit you hard? Work-wise I went from working 50 plus hours a week to less than half and we focused on the four walls and utilities and food.

How much debt do you guys have left in Baby Step 2? I want to say about 40 or 50,000 total. What do you make right now? Last year I averaged about 38,000. My bride 71.71,000. What do you do making $38,000 a year? I'm a soils tech. I essentially go out and test the compaction levels of construction sites before they build new roads or new buildings.

My regular wage is $20 an hour. Every once in a while I get the prevailing wage, which is four or five times that. Here's what I'm hearing. Can I tell you what I'm hearing? And we don't have a ton of time, and so I want to get right to the middle of it. You don't look in the mirror and respect you.

And I don't want you taking another step that you don't respect the dad you are, the husband you are, the man you are. Fair? That's fair. You're a dad who loves his kids, don't you? Absolutely. Okay, you're worth more than $38,000 a year, brother. And I know you feel good in your job and it feels secure in X, Y, and Z. You can make that work in a Starbucks. And so I want you to hit the street and find a job.

I don't care what the job is, but I want you to find a job that's making more than $38,000 a year. I'm not knocking people that that's all they can do. But if you know how to test soil compact levels and work with contractors and deal with all that nightmare stuff and plus run your own small thing, then you can do a bunch of jobs that will pay you double or triple or quadruple what you're making right now. Okay.

But it's gonna make you bust out of your comfort zone. Same as going to the gym. Same as getting on a diet plan and not skipping and changing diets every four weeks and trying this, I'm going to try fasting, I'm going to try keto, I'm going to try vegetarian. I'm just going to be consistent for the first time in my life. And I'm also going to hook you up with three months free of better help. I want you to get in front of a counselor, and you can do it from your home computer

so you don't have to go anywhere and lose an hour of work right now. And I want you to begin to talk about those demons that are inside your chest because everyone in your life loves you. The guy who's struggling with loving you is you right now, fair? They're not wrong. Okay. You know what to do man. The journey is gonna be hard. This is day one brother. You in? Absolutely. I want you to say I'm in. I'm in. For your health, for your finances, for your family. For you. I want you to be 6'4 and down 100 pounds this time next year. Are you in?

I can sure as hell put in the effort. Okay. And not because it's a number. I don't care about the number on a scale. I care because you're worth feeling good when you wake up in the morning and you're worth not snoring all night and you're worth laughing and rolling around on the floor with your kids. I want that last kid of yours to have you walk him down the aisle. Or if it's your son is the last one, I want you

hugging his guts out backstage before he walks down the aisle. This is how family trees change when one person stares it down, looks in the mirror and says enough is enough is enough and the change starts with me, day one starts today. Hang on the line brother, we're going to hook you up with some stuff, alright? And we'll walk with you, you call us anytime. We love you man, go get them. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 1 verse 1. Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers.

Mark Twain said, What's the difference between a taxidermist and a tax collector? The taxidermist takes only your skin. Ooh, Mark Twain burn. Burn, sick burn. Mark Twain burn. Dude, he would have crushed it if he had Twitter. Can you imagine the amount of followers he would have had? He probably is at the top right now.

Still, to this day. He's been dead for a couple hundred years. Not even his real name. Pseudonym. Look it up. Google it. Good old Sam. Yeah. Sherry's in San Diego up next. What's going on Sherry? Hi, thanks for taking my call. So quick background. We moved to California in 2019. We bought a house, moved into our dream neighborhood to raise our three little girls. We sold our business in Las Vegas and sold our home to do this. Well, we opened a business out here and COVID completely crushed us. We lost the business out here. My husband decided to take an opportunity in Las Vegas and purchase a business out there.

So in the last two years, he's been traveling back and forth to the business every week. And then I'm at home with the little kids by myself on the, um, during the week. And he's home on the weekends, especially we're at a point now where we have to decide on, cause we're kind of behind on everything. We've got credit card debt, which we never had it before. Um, financially strapped. I'm not making much money right now with my business. And so now we're at a point where do we sell our home out here,

move back to Vegas for the business essentially, and for our family to be together and the stability. Um, but our rent will be way more in Vegas than it is here because our timing was right. And we bought out here in California. So that's kind of, but our rent will be way more in Vegas than it is here because our timing was right when we bought out here in California. So that's kind of, and we would pay off our debts with the equity that we have in our home. If we sell our home. So we're trying to figure out what makes the most sense or do we just stay here because we have a low mortgage and he gets a job out here.

He can still run the business over there. If you put the manager manager in place and then I'm going to obviously get a side hustle. Woo! There's more too, trust me. I know. It's a lot. Can I distill down what you said and I want to make sure I heard you right. The options are, get the family back together, get some peace in your life, clear all of your debts and have a little bit of higher monthly payment on your rent.

Or keep the family divided up, keep your husband flying back and forth because you all have convinced yourself there's only one option, it's in Vegas, there's no other jobs in San Diego. We're going back and forth for a low mortgage payment. Right. In my head, this is as close to a no-brainer as I've ever heard. Ha ha ha. It sounds like if I read between all of the lines,

you had a picture of what your life was going to look like in this perfect house, in this perfect neighborhood with your perfect little girls and your perfect husband and your perfect new business and you haven't fully let that thing go yet. No, you're totally right. I'm saying this, I'm not smiling, so I'm being serious but it's gonna sound silly. I think you and your husband need to either write a letter together to the life y'all thought you were gonna live and read it to each other and have some sort of ceremony or funeral for what was or draw a picture and put it in a fireplace.

You have to sever ties with this dream's picture you had. You've already had a picture of your three daughters married at Thanksgiving at a table in that house you're in right now, right? Yeah, I mean it's literally like of all, like I don't know, we lived in Vegas for a long time, so coming here it was like moving to Pleasantville, you know, the neighborhood's great, kids are on the block, the kids walk to school. It's just such a, it's such a great situation, but financially it's just like, it's almost like living here. We have this really low mortgage and it monthly expenses, but it's almost having a abusive relationship where, you know,

we kept getting beat up and to keep streaming flowers back, you know, saying it's okay. So we're at the point where we're like, we listed the house for sale, we just got an offer. So we're looking at it and we're like, oh, $460,000 is a lot of money and we could pay off the debt that we do have. And then, yeah, we're paying a higher monthly mortgage or payment on a rent, but it's, it's that whole like paying that much in rent is what's really hanging us up. I don't think that's what it is. I don't think that's what it is. Tell me I'm wrong.

I don't think you want to move back to Vegas. You're right. Okay, then you need to put that on the table. And your husband has some big fantasy dream about rebuilding what he had in Vegas. And he's still trying to fight. He's the boxer that got knocked out for the last time during COVID and he can't let it go.

And so he's the 48 year old boxer who keeps taking pro fights. Yeah. How much debt are you guys in total? Total, with their house or without? Without the house. Okay, so let's just say we have a $40,000 car payment. He has a lease on his truck, which we never had debt before by the way,

this is all new. And then I have about fifteen thousand in credit cards and then a fifteen thousand dollar personal loan and you're proud of your low mortgage because that's the saving grace in all of this. What are you doing? You don't account silly now that you say it's just it's so hard you wrap our minds around like oh my god. No none of this matters. My husband's having yeah okay no none of this matters my husband's having yeah okay none of this matters you don't want to live in las vegas again i don't know what it was about your life back then that you didn't like maybe you didn't like how he was in vegas you didn't like the heat you didn't like the dirt you didn't like the community whatever it was none of it's all okay but you have to have the courage in your marriage to say i don't

want to live in Las Vegas. Every time a couple backs themselves into an either or situation, here's your homework assignment. Because here's what happens, you have falsely trapped yourselves and you're either about to sell a house in a community that you love because your husband won't look for a job in San Diego or you're about to move to a place that is gonna make you miserable, and you're gonna become somebody you don't wanna be.

And so- We both don't really wanna move back, but we just kinda feel like, and he's willing to, out here he's even said, like, I'll get a job, da da da da da, but- What does he make from this business? It's not enough. So what happened to this opportunity? When you say he had an opportunity to from this business? It's not enough. So what happened to this opportunity?

When you said he had an opportunity to buy this business. He bought the business with a partner. And so he's taking a salary right now, but they're growing it. They have a loan on it. So before, you know, they have to pay off that loan before they can really bring in. How much is the loan on the business? 1.9. loan on the business? 1.9. What's the business?

It's a gym. So he's stuck. What's he gonna do? The partner can't buy him out of this. No. And he signed the dotted line with his personal name for that $1.9 million loan for what salary? How much is he getting paid?

Well, right now he's one of those people that he'd rather take less to pay their loan down quickly. So he keeps taking home 80,000 before taxes. And how much do you make? Last year I made 90 grand but this year I'm getting crushed. What does this business make per month? Oh, I'd have to really look into it, but I think there are several locations. I think one of the locations makes like $250 after expenses, the other one makes $350 after expenses. A month?

Yeah, a year. A year? So we're never going to pay off two million dollars of debt. Yeah. And is his salary and his partner's salary rolled into that expense? Uh, yes. His partner's not taking a salary. So if they took all combined, what is that, $600,000, they could have the business paid off in about three years. Yeah.

But they won't. Because the note was for six years. So he was like, if we come back to Vegas and we grow this thing, we could pay it off with her. You're not. The UFC runs gyms in Vegas. Everyone runs gyms in Vegas. Yeah.

And I'm not saying it's bad. I mean, start your business, do your thing. I agree with, I mean, I'm all for starting businesses. I love it, I love it, I love it. But now you're on the hook for $1.9 million. Yeah, you buried the lead there. It's gonna be hard to just be like, well, just get a job here and then what?

Or maybe you say, hey, I'll move to Vegas for two years. Well, we try to clean this up. You better pay this, every penny is going to pay this note off We're gonna sell these gems and then we're gonna decide where we actually want to live But yeah, I mean George as far as I'm here man get keeping my family together is As high a priority as I can place and it's yeah, God help me It's more important than I got a good mortgage rate Oh my goodness, and I probably look at selling the car doing an an early buyout for this truck lease. I mean you guys have a profit up your payment. Cut every lifestyle possible.

And next time you hear the word opportunity, just know that's translation for I'm about to do something real stupid. Talk me off the ledge.