The Ramsey Show - App - Has Tipping Become “Entitlement Tax”? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

George Kamel & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss:  Has tipping become “entitlement tax”? Deciding whether or not to stay at a job, "Should I sell my car to pay off debt more quickly?" "Which mortgage should we pay off first?" "I regret my career choice but don't know where to go." Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Here's an EveryDollar deal just for our listeners: get a 14-day free trial PLUS $15 off your first year of premium. Click the link below and start budgeting today! www.everydollar.com/george Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by bestselling author Ken Coleman this hour. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. If you've got that lingering question, you're just not sure, you're tired of just Googling and hoping, we hope to give you some good advice on this show, whether it's about your money, your work life, or something else in between.

Maybe some relationship advice. Ken's got a lot of wisdom in that arena. That's for sure. You've been married a long time. I will say this. I don't ask for it, but I do enjoy the occasional dating relationship advice situation because I like to get right down to brass tacks. He's seen it all, folks. Boy, haven't I? I'll tell you what I'm seeing more of that we want to talk about here because it affects our listeners and viewers' pocketbooks. What's that?

I'm going to tell you what it is. I've coined a phrase, George. I've coined a phrase for it. Okay. You know what it's called? What's that? The compensation tax. Oh.

Let me tell you what this looks like. You show up to a coffee shop in my neighborhood the other day. I order myself a Cuban to go. Nice choice, by the way. I'm getting ready to pay. What happens? The young man behind the counter, with a little bit of entitlement, I might add, as I'm paying, flips the screen around, I'm ready to pay, flips it around and says, here's where you pay in tips sir and i think to myself now it's expected that i tip i'm tipping it i'm tipping at restaurants which is normal now we're tipping everywhere everywhere you go everywhere you go there's an ipad involved there's an ipad you got a tip option i just say no

thank you to the ipad i go don't turn that around i don't want to know it's your business i didn't i didn't get that confrontational. I just went with the, I paid and I didn't do a tip. And I'm going to tell you what it is. These small business people, business people in general, are getting smart. And you got inflation happening to them in the form of they're having to pay higher wages. So you know what they're doing? They're adding a compensation tax for us.

That's what I'm calling it. And our little tip helps them juice the hourly wage. Yeah. I don't have to give them a raise if I can just get the customers to give more tips. But see, there was no email. There was no sign on the door that explained this. Just one day you started getting prompted to tip where you didn't tip before. Yes. So if you're not serving me, taking my order, multiple trips for multiple drinks, I'm not tipping you. If I'm standing up and you're asking me for a tip, it's over. This better be a sit-down, lay-down situation if you're wanting a tip from me.

You know? Yeah. The barbershop, the massage, the restaurant. If I'm standing, I'm doing the work right now. Right. You know what I mean? You know, I appreciate that. I won't stand for this.

Thank you. You put your foot down. We went full Seinfeld there. There you go. But let me just say this, though. This is the thing, and I won't stand for this. Oh, thank you. You put your foot down. We went full Seinfeld there. There you go. But let me just say this, though. This is the thing, and I'm just pointing it out. You and I agree it's okay to not tip in that situation. Yes.

Not a restaurant, a waiter situation, but just it's a transaction across the counter. Now, if you want to tip, fine. But don't throw the hate at George and I because we don't feel like we got a tip in that situation. I won't stand for it. And I actually, this is funny you mentioned this. I just released a video on my new YouTube channel about when you should and shouldn't tip. And I made it very clear.

Okay, lay it out for us. My stance for it. Did we cover everything? I gave you a taste. This is a tease to go watch the video. Oh, you don't want to give it away. But a follower on Instagram just sent me this, Ken, and I think you'll appreciate it. Oh yeah, the guys have a picture of this.

If you're not watching. Put this up on the screen for those that are watching. This is a sign that's at the register at a Jets Pizza somewhere in America. I do like, by the way, some Jets. I really do. I'm going to read it to you, Ken. Tips are no longer accepted. Thank you to all of our extraordinarily generous customers.

We are here because of you. Rest assured, in lieu of tips, we are increasing the compensation of all our team members. We look forward to continuing to provide the best possible customer service. Thank you from your Jets Pizza team. That's good leadership. It's good leadership. Now, I'm assuming this is referring to pickup and takeout. Sure.

Yeah, if they're delivering pizza, you should be tipping. You should be tipping. I want to stipulate. Okay, good. But if you're picking up the pizza and then they spin around the iPad, I don't want to deal with that. I drove all the way here to pick up the pizza so I didn't have to pay the delivery fee and tip. I like it, George. I like it.

So there you go. That's the move I think more business owners need to do is put the sign out there and say, not only are they not expected, but they're not even accepted. Yeah. And by the way, this has fundamental economic impact here. When you start talking about putting an extra tip on where customers aren't used to tipping, that's real inflation to them.

And you're trying to do it. You're socking it to your customer because of the wages you want to pay, or maybe you're trying to juice your profits. And I think there's going to be a lot of snapback on this kickback. Agreed. And that's why the sign is existing. Jets is seeing a competitive advantage for taking that position.

So there you go. And I would want to give my business to those kinds of business owners who are doing those things. And this is not, you know, people come at us, Ken, and they go, wow, I can't believe these guys are so stingy. They don't want to be generous. This has nothing to do with generosity. Absolutely be generous whenever you can in all situations. But this

idea of I'm going to socially have a socially awkward moment where I spin around the iPad and the employees don't want to do that either. They always go, it's got a question for you. I don't know what the question is. They feel awkward too. And hey, while we're on the subject, folks, when you go out to eat at a restaurant, check the bill because a lot of restaurants are socking in an extra fee that has nothing to do with taxes, state and local taxes. And I'm one, I'll have the manager come out and go talk to him about this. What is this? What is this thing you've stuck here on the bill that's not tax related and it's not the tip line?

Watch out for it. Look at at your bill you'll see it yeah i have them out there going you didn't tell me about this when i walked in that's a good point check your receipts and it's okay to ask and say hey i got billed for this i don't know what it is that happened to me at a restaurant and it said health tax health and i was like who's health my health yeah i found out we are subsidizing the health care for the employees so the business owners don't have to yeah i don't think that's fair the employees so the business owners don't have to. I don't think that's fair. Let me tell you what I don't have to do, folks. I do not have to pay a tax that some politician didn't pass.

So you can put it on the bill, but unless Congress or state and local government passed it, take this tax and shove it. Candy boy's not doing it. You know what I'm saying? There you go. Just crumple that little receipt up and give me a new one. The normal way to do it is you raise prices, and if the customer no longer wants to pay those prices, Take this tax and shove it. Candy boy's not doing it. You know what I'm saying? There you go. Just crumple that little receipt up and give me a new one. The normal way to do it is you raise prices, and if the customer no longer wants to pay

those prices, they'll do business elsewhere. And that is the obligation and the right of any business person. Go for it. Let's see if it works. But don't hit me with the old guilt trip tip. Boy. Yes. And Rachel Cruz and I, we did an episode.

We called it guilt tipping. I thought you'd like the pun there. On Smart Money Happy Hour. Like cow tipping. Yes. But very similar. Yeah, I did an episode. We called it guilt tipping. I thought you'd like the pun there on Smart Money Happy Hour. Like cow tipping. Yes, very similar. Yeah, I like that. But no cows are hurt in this situation. A lot of young people watching the show right now have no idea what cow tipping is.

Well, I'm pretty sure anyone that doesn't live in middle America doesn't know what cow tipping is. I'm a city slicker. I don't know what that is. Have you never heard of it? I've heard of it. I would never do it. I'm not going full PETA here. I'm just saying.

I don't think it's a nice thing to it. I'm not going full PETA here. I'm just saying. I don't think it's a nice thing to do. I'm not taking a position on it. I've never attempted it, for the record, so spare the hate mail. Sounds like it might be hilarious. I feel like the cow would kick back and it would be over for me. Which is why it would be funny. I think I lose trying to do that. They love that comedy.

Well, if you want to learn more about this, I made a hopefully very entertaining video on my YouTube channel called When You Should and Shouldn't Tip. And you can just search for George Camel with a K on YouTube. And let me know your thoughts. Drop some comments in there and tell me when you think you should and shouldn't tip. Because honestly, it's exhausting trying to figure it out. Because you don't want to be a bad person. You don't want to be socially judged.

We want to be generous. But it's gone too far. It has. Thank you for that, Ken. From our mouth to your ears, that is our thoughts on tipping, whether you want it or not. We've hit the tipping point on tipping. I think we're exhausted from talking about tipping at this point. I might tip you just to stop talking about it.

Oh, my goodness. This is The Ramsey Show. Listen, paying off debt is smart. Saving and investing, very smart. But there is one key to winning with money that people overlook all the time, and that is protecting your finances from emergencies. And that is exactly the role of insurance. Now, there are 10 kinds of coverage that you might need based on what your life looks like today. And to make it easy on you, our team has built an incredible tool called the Coverage Checkup to show you which types you need to add, drop, or adjust. We'll even rank your coverage list by importance. We'll email it to you and connect you with a Ramsey-trusted insurance provider so you can get your plan in place fast. Seriously, this could be the most important five minutes you spend today. You can do that at ramsaysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash checkup. And Ken, let me read you a message I just got on Facebook yesterday from a fella. He said, you saved me $650 for the next year by shopping insurances home and auto. Thanks, sir. Wish I checked that a few years ago.

I couldn't have planned that any better. And now I didn't do anything. He said, you saved me. I didn't do anything. He did the work, but it takes actually doing this checkup to go, am I getting good rates? Do I have the right coverage? So if you're looking to make more money, you don't have to always go do the side hustle. Sometimes you can just reshop your insurance and get a better rate. So true. Love it. Go check that out. All right, let's go to the phones. Is it Sheila in Seattle? Sheila, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you guys. Absolutely. Thank you so much for this opportunity. So I'm going to give you a quick background. I'm a nurse.

I work from home near Seattle, and I started my MBA to help me move up. My company has been paying for it and they have paid so far 7,000. And my commitment to them is to look for a job three months after I complete my MBA. And this should be done around between January to March because I'm about to be done towards the end of the year. However, just last week I learned that I'm going to lose my job. Several of us, well five of us are losing it and throughout the company. So I have the option to stay here as a nurse in a probably less desirable position so I can continue to make money and also to keep my commitment. That $7,000 is actually through the union.

Sheila, I'm sorry. Sheila, I'm sorry. I'm going to interrupt because I'm confused. Okay. You said you're losing your job, but then you have the opportunity to stay there. So you're losing your current nursing job, but they're offering you another nursing job that doesn't pay as well? Yes. Okay. Yes. And so it'll be about the same pay, but as I'm looking around internally, they're not the very desirable jobs. They're okay jobs, and they're probably our hybrid.

I don't want to be back to a clinic nursing job or, you know, urgent care. I lost all of that experience anyway. So I do have the option to go outside within my company, but I will lose. You know, I'll have to pay them back the 7,000. So my question is, should I just get anything I could and stay here until spring or, you know, through the end of 2024? At which point, so hold on. So your commitment, so you don't want to pay back the 7,000. And so your, your commitment is, I didn't understand that part. Your commitment is you stay through the spring and then what are you able to do?

So the commitment is until spring and then I'm free to go wherever, you know, outside of my employer. But if you don't stay until the spring, you're going to have to pay them seven grand back immediately. Yes. And I'll have to put up with a not so desirable job. Okay. I think, and you'll be done with the MBA as well at this time? Yeah, I will be done with my MBA. My goal is to be done by this fall. Okay, so why the MBA? Do you want to stay in nursing, or was this your exit out of the nursing industry? Well, both ways. If I can't get into the tech industry to do sales or something business, I'll have to stick it up with nursing in a management role which is all right.

No it's not. It's all right. No it's not. It's not. It's okay to say I don't want to be a nurse anymore. It's okay for you to go I don't want to be a nurse. So if I understand this right I'm sorry I'm trying to pay attention to all the variables. I don't think any of the variables really matter that much because you don't want to

be in nursing long term and quite frankly the, you're going to finish this fall anyway, and the MBA has nothing to do with you getting into tech sales. It just doesn't. And so tech sales is a very, very good industry to be in. It's got a lot of opportunity. So if it were me, I would stay in the nursing role because even though the one you're in now, you're not going to be able to be in, but you can get another nursing role that

pays about, if not the same money, pretty close to it if I heard you right, and I don't have to. It's actually going to be the same money. Okay, great. Perfect. Yeah. But we don't have to pay $7,000 back. I personally would stick it out to next spring and not have to fork out $7,000 because you've done it before. You can do it. It's not the end of the world. Is it desirable? No, but you don't want to be in nursing long-term anyway. And I think it allows you time to start looking today and let's see if we can land a great gig. If there's any other qualifications, like maybe a certification or something like that, to be able to sell for a tech company there might be some training if this gives you time uh to find the path to find another opportunity and and so i i would stick it out and

not pay the seven thousand george you disagree no i'm with ken unless you just are flush with cash you have no debt and you just you can get an opportunity soon in that world and make the same money, then I would stick it out until then. So do you have any debt? my emergency fund. I got a condo. I'm even paying extra $1,000 a month. My kid has just graduated from his business ad degree. I am not anxious about my job loss while the other nurses are anxious. And so I could really just afford to let go of the $7,000, but $7,000 is still $7,000. Agreed. And that's why, unless you're going to go, hey, I'm going to get a $10,000 pay bump, and I'll just pay the $7,000 to be done with it, and it's not in my emergency fund, because it's not an emergency, then in that case, I'd go, all right, if you find a great opportunity and you don't want to stick this out for 10 more months, go for it.

I agree with that. But it's got to be a great opportunity. I would stick it around right now until you find that opportunity. Yeah. Let's say you find something really great this fall and the increase in pay is there and you can actually afford the seven grand. We don't, by the way, this is not an emergency fund situation. This is seven grand above and beyond everything you're doing. Then of course you can do it, you know, but if you can stick it out and time it out right, that'd be awesome. Absolutely. Well, Ken, this brings up the point

that a lot of people face in their careers and in their work of kind of the golden handcuffs. And that's where she finds herself of going, I want to leave, but I'm stuck because of X, Y, Z. And if I leave, I'm going to owe them this. And it's one of the reasons some of these benefits I'm not a huge fan of because you go, I got to work for this employer for three more years. And what if I want to leave nursing? What if it's toxic? That's exactly right. And it's not to say that her decision is wrong or anyone hasn't been able to use this type of situation in their benefit. But most of the time when companies pay for your education or reimburse you, they're looking for a commitment.

And to me, it's about freedom. I'm going to keep coming back to this. At the heart of everything we teach through the seven baby steps, what we call financial peace is freedom. When Dave says, if you live and give like no one else, if you live like no one else later, you can live and give like no one else. What is at the core of that statement? It's freedom. I have options. And not only do I have options, I and only me get to choose what option I'm going to

take. And so I think it's very important to say, should I be patient and cashflow my way for additional education? Is that the better move? Or should I take money from a company and be okay being a bit of an indentured servant here where, you know, essentially they paid for this. Now I owe them X amount of years. And I think, I think that's a tough decision for a lot of people because they're thinking about the money they're going to spend,

but I would rather spend my money and have freedom on the other side. I was just watching financial peace university with Dave's debt lesson. And he says, when your boss starts yelling at you, you start walking away and say, where are you going? I don't have any payments. So true. That's the kind of freedom we're talking about when you follow this path. Money, work, it's all connected. More of your calls coming up. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman this hour. This is the Ramsey Show and we're here for you. This is a show about you and for you to help you take the right next step in your money life,

in your work life, and whatever else is going on. The number to call is 888-825-5225. Christian is up next in Fresno. Christian, what's up? Are you with us, Christian? Yeah, yeah. Thanks for taking my call, Ken George. Thank you guys for your help. Absolutely. Hey, so quick, I'll just give you a quick background.

So I make about $8,000 a year. I'm on baby step two right now. Currently just kind of started it about a month ago. Um, I have about $64,000 in debt, uh, give or take a thousand bucks, but, um, and about $20,000 of those are in credit cards and loans, which that I'm not too worried about that. I feel like it'd take out within, you know, max six months. The rest of it though, about $43,000 of that debt is in a vehicle. And, um, I guess I was just calling, uh, ask you guys opinion, whether or not, uh, I should just keep it or, you know, downgrade. Cause, uh, if I keep it,

technically, uh, I should in theory, be able to pay it off, um, within two years, best case scenario. If not, maybe add another five months to it. Or if I should just downgrade. The problem with that is that I'd be taking, you know, I'm negative on it, so I'd be taking that loan with me about, it would be about like 10 grand that I'd be taking with me, even if I was- So what's the car worth?

So the car is worth about 35 from all the websites I've gone in, and I owe about 43. Okay. So what's stopping you from going to a credit union and taking out a loan for the difference and being done with this thing and being 8 grand in debt instead of 43 grand in debt? That's what I was asking because of a new, I'd have to go and, I work about 30 minutes away, so I'd still have to get a decently card that could take me there. I'm not talking about anything expensive, just seems like a lot of headaches, you know? How much money do you have in the bank?

Like, you mean like right now? Yeah, between your checking and savings, all that. Probably combined with the emergency fund, probably three grand maybe. Okay, and how quickly could you save up another five grand? It wouldn't take too long, About two months, three months maybe. Okay. So what if we hustled and we got five grand in the next two months? That gives you eight grand in savings.

You'd take an eight grand loan. And with that extra seven, so leave $1,000 in your savings account. We take seven and we go buy you a beater car. Then you're out of this thing. Yeah, that would work, yeah. Then we'll work on paying off that small $8,000 loan. You've got a car to get you from A to B for a while, and you'll upgrade in no time.

Once the rest of that debt's paid off, we start saving up and we cash flow a better vehicle. But the idea of you keeping this car and paying it off, it's just too much car for your world, man. What's your car payment? It's pretty pricey. It's $760. Oh, my gosh.

I know. The reason I asked you that is because I wanted you to say it. I wanted you to hear yourself say $760 because what George just walked you through, okay, which seems like a headache, but it's actually not, to do what he just said. And I'll be very honest with you because I've got three teenagers. One I just got a car for, so I'm always looking at cars. I've got two more to get next year. You can get a decent car for $7,000.

You really can. It doesn't have to be a piece of crap on wheels. But imagine $760 a month that you're paying for that car gets reduced dramatically when you're only paying off eight, and you're going to knock that eight out pretty quick. We're talking about a real lifestyle change. I don't want you to get lost in the, well, I got to go get a credit, you know, a loan with the credit bureau, and then I got to do this, and I got to do this. You're changing your life dramatically when that payment drops tremendously. Do you feel that? Right, yeah. I do, yeah.

How old are you? I'm 27. Okay. So what does 30-year-old Christian, what does he want to do? Where does he want to be financially three years from now? Well, yeah, that's kind of why I started all this. I've known about the Randi stuff for a while, but I never really started it. It was just until I told myself, kind of, I'm done with this coin.

I feel like I'm getting deeper in the hole than more ahead. I really do want to be debt-free and really just a baseline to maybe get a house soon. Well, I want you to have that house dream front and center, but it's going to be a while because we've got to get rid of this debt. We have to get the emergency fund. We have to upgrade the car. Then we need to start saving the down payment. You're in Fresno. What is a normal, what does a condo cost in Fresno in your area? It's not too pricey, about $300,000. That's it? In Fresno? That's shocking to me. Yeah, it's not like in Fresno. I live a little bit out in the outskirts, in a smaller neighborhood.

Well, I want you to have that goal front and center because at 27 years old, the reason we get this car is because we want to look good. We want to feel successful, look successful. But instead, we're sitting here going, I'm sending $800 to a lender with interest, and I got 24% interest on these credit cards. What am I doing with my life? I want 30-year-old Christian to be proud of what 27-year-old Christian did. And that's to make these kinds of sacrifices. Okay. Hey, Christian, check this out. I was just thinking while George was talking to you,

when I was 27, I had been married for four years and my wife and I were saving up for a house and I was driving a cash car, a Ford Taurus that had no AC and I had to use a staple gun to staple the roof felt or whatever, the liner to keep it from falling on my head at the stoplight. But listen, man, I was on purpose. I was focused on something way bigger than how fancy my car was, George. Drive like no one else so later you can drive like no one else. That's the key. Yeah, I mean, what's important? You know, we've got so many people,

so many young people getting sucked into the look and feel of certain things, and these things tend to depreciate. They tend to lose their value, just emotional value as well. Yeah, that new car becomes used pretty quick as soon as you drive it off the lot. So wishing you the best, man. Thanks for the call. Blake's up next in D.C. Blake, welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. Sure. So we're on step five or six. I don't know how you look at it. We're saving for our son's college. And the only debt right now we have is two mortgages.

So before we got married, my wife had a condo, and now we live in a townhouse. So we have two mortgages on those. And then we're starting to outgrow our townhouse. So we need to buy a new house probably in the next two or three years. And we're trying to decide if we should save up for a down payment for the new house or try to pay off these mortgages. And right now the condo is a rental and the current townhouse we would like to turn into a rental. So you're wanting to keep both of these and get a new house? Yes. Oh boy. Then you're wanting to keep both of these and get a new house? Yes. Oh boy,

then you're not going to like my advice. I don't think the answer to this is get a third mortgage, which is what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess both of our mortgage rates are like, below 3%, which makes it hard to sell and give up. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Okay, hold on. Let's just run some numbers here, okay? So what is your mortgage payment that you owe on the condo, and then how much are you profiting from rent each month on just the condo? Yeah, so we're breaking even because my in-laws are renting the condo so that's like 1600 a month in uh mortgage and and rent okay so you're not making any money on it so if one thing happens

one repair happens you're in the hole yeah and this is somehow a wealth building plan because of an interest rate what's the condo worth? Let's run those numbers. If you sell it today, give me a fair price. I mean, Zillow's saying $330,000. And why are they not paying, and how much do you owe on it? We owe like $190,000. Okay.

And what about the townhouse? What's left on that mortgage? So that's probably around like $450,000. Goodness. All right. And what could it sell for? When I refinanced last year, it was like $565,000 is what it was appraised at. Okay. Yeah. You don't have a lot of equity in these properties and all it takes is one thing to go wrong, one vacancy, one HVAC, and you guys are screwed. So I would be selling this townhouse when you go to move. And honestly, I'd probably look at selling this condo too to get you guys in a good financial spot.

You can get an investment property later, but pay cash. Don't put yourself in the situation. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman this hour. If you like this show, we've got a lot more where that came from on The Ramsey Network. My friend Ken Coleman hosts his own show called The Ken Coleman Show right next door in the studio. You can check that out on YouTube, Podcast, Spotify, wherever you get your content.

And I've got a brand new YouTube channel, and it's also on Spotify Video now. Did you know that was a thing, Ken? I didn't know that. That's pretty cool. So if you go on Spotify, you search George Camel you can actually watch the episodes. Camel with a K by the way. Thank you for that. Don't get it twisted. I'd like to help you out with that. And by the way,

the guy was made for YouTube. You watch my YouTube videos and you go, there's a middle-aged dad. You watch George on YouTube and you go, this guy. That's an out-of-touch millennial right there. I'm telling you. That's not true. It's hard to connect with the youth these days because they think I'm not cool.

Older people don't think I'm cool. Yeah. So I'm a very specific target. No, we're having a little fun at our own expense. There's good content on both channels. Check it out. That's true. But we're definitely not cool.

We can all agree on that. We know that. All right. Let's get to the phones. Katrina's up next in Charlotte, North Carolina. Katrina, welcome to the show. Hi, I'm really excited to talk to you guys. Thank you guys for your help.

Sure. What's going on? So I pursued a career in the past that I felt was a good fit for me. And I remember, I mean, I completed it, I got their certification. And once I completed school and I got in the career, I actually really didn't like it. And so now I'm at, I'm back to ground one to the beginning and I'm deciding to go back to school, but I'm honestly having a lot of fear. I don't know entirely what my major should be and I just need guidance. I need help.

I wish I had that clarity that I thought I had before, but now I feel like I'm, I don't know. I just. That's okay. That's okay. I want to dig into this really quickly. So what was the career path that you were in that you regret going into? What was it? I became a surgical technician. A surgical tech. And when you decided to go into it, what did you think it was going to be? Or what were you excited about that didn't pan out? I really love helping people feel better.

I really... Physically? With their physical health? Physically, mentally, everything. Has that changed? No, not at all. So you thought the surgical tech was going to, you were going to be a part of their healing process. Yeah, exactly. And then I started scrubbing in, and I'm standing there for 10-hour days, long cases, and nobody's talking. And doctors were frustrated, and I was just getting anxious. And I'm like, oh, no, this is not what I – so I stepped away from it. There's a clue right there. You were in a surgical environment the patient is under there's no interaction with you and them and you probably had to go check in on them do a little

research after the procedure just to see if it helped so you didn't have any connection to that human to see that what you were doing or saying was making them feel better or have some sort of transformation hope towards a better future do you see that yeah so yeah because it felt very technical it was but it was yeah yeah so that tells me a lot about you Katrina that you are all about people work you're and I'm guessing you have a lot of people skills. Is this true or false? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I do have periods of time when I need to recharge. I go home and I like paint or read a book. Yeah. But you know why that is? I really do. The reason is, is because you give a lot of energy to people. And it's similar to what George and I

do. I will tell you that today already, I hosted my show. I had about an eight-minute break, and now I'm here with George. We're doing three hours here. And then I got a reception after this, where I'll be talking to people. And then I got an FPU class I'll teach later tonight. And later tonight, I will just need to sit there and read a book. Why? Because I have given a lot of my energy as it relates to my mind and words and reading and discerning like I'm doing with you right now. And so when you are doing people work, you will feel depleted, but you will also feel rewarded. Does that make sense? Yeah. And you know, I've, I've considered even nursing, but I worked with nurses, and it's too stressful for me.

Okay, great. I know for— Perfect. Yeah, but I— So here's the deal. I guess it narrows it down. I think—all right, so now—so I just wanted to learn a little bit about you and see what clues we could figure out really quickly. Now I'm going to put you on the spot, but I want you to not feel pressure.

I want you to feel excited because there's no right or wrong answer. Are you ready to go? Yes. All right, she's ready. I think you have some ideas, but you don't have confidence that those ideas are the right ones to pursue. Am I right or wrong? Yeah, actually, yeah. I knew it. So Katrina, give me your top two ideas that you think about the most, real quick. Well, I really thought about becoming like a Christian trauma therapist,

or I've thought about becoming a physical therapist. Yes. Fantastic. Now, let me tell you why I love those two answers. The Christian trauma therapist, so that's in the emotional therapy, the mental therapy, and then you got the physical therapy. And both of those, Katrina, allow you to be people-facing. And that means, George, that she's going to be looking people in the eye. She's going to be communicating with people in order to find out what's hurting, whether that be in their soul or in their body. And then you're going to come up with a plan and work with them. They've got to work with you in both of those jobs. There is a give and take, yes? Yeah, I'm actually already getting

like excited. I could hear you smiling. I could hear the smile. And so let me just say this, that those are two ideas that to me, I believe that God has wired you for. I believe you have the talent to win in those fields. I believe you have the passion, which means you love the work itself. And I think that you care deeply have the passion which means you love the work itself and i think that you care deeply about the results so you're going to be motivated to meet people in their place of pain and help them with transformation to get over the pain so that's how we ideate and we come up with ideas there and then when you go we don't choose a major first in fact we don't even think about school unless we look at both of those and we go, is a degree required for both of those?

The answer is yes. So now we do have some schooling. Okay, yeah. But the process for you, and I'm going to give you my get clear assessment, which I think is going to be very confirming for you. And it measures talent, what you do best, passion, the work you love to do, and then mission, which is a term that I use for what motivates me. If you can get answers to those three things and that assessment will do that, if you answer it honestly, I think it's going to, it will spit

out a purpose statement that ends up being a high-level job description. And I think it will confirm both of those two ideas. But I think you just needed confidence, young lady, that what you were thinking and feeling made sense. George? Well, as Katrina was talking, I was going, she doesn't trust herself because she felt like she flubbed it with this career path, and now she can't trust herself again. And that's not what happened. You nailed it. You just narrowed down exactly what you wanted to do, and you're super young. How old are you? I'm 26. Most people don't even figure this out until they're in their 40s or 50s and they have so much regret. You have your

whole life ahead of you. I agree. So the next question is, and as you were talking, I said physical therapist. I think that's exactly right for her and you were spot on. So what's the next step for school? Have you looked into how much that's going to cost and how you're going to cash flow it? Well, actually I called the community college nearby and it's free tuition. And also, I work for an Amazon distribution center and they actually pitch in for costs as well. They do. So I might be able to carry the four years. Come on. Incredible. Free or really close to free. I am still trying to pay off the debt that I had from the previous certification. So how much you got left? I have $18,000 from student loans, and then I have $10,000

from credit cards and medical bills, which is the 10,000 is just, you know, life circumstances, but the student loans is 18K,000. And I was actually going to ask you if I should pay all that off before starting school. Yes. Katrina, I was just getting ready to say, are you willing to do what it takes? And you were going to say, yes. And then I was going to ask you, are you willing to wait as long as it takes? That's a different question. And we want you paying that debt off first. How much do you make? Well, right now it's like 35K a year, which is not... Honestly, my dream is to make 80 to 100K a year. Oh, you'll get there. I'm not worried about that. But let's get our income up so we can knock this debt out fast so that we can cashflow this schooling so that we can get to

that dream. You're going to get there in no time because you know exactly what you're after now. What an inspiring call. We're cheering you on. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Hey, it's Ken. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey, we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Go to RamseySolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter. Again, that's RamseySolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.