The Ramsey Show - App - Having No Payments in the World Gives You Incredible Freedom! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: May 6, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones this hour. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Billy is with us in St. Louis. Hi, Billy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Morning, Dave. Hey, what's up? Well, my situation is I own a homestead of about 70 acres. I paid $275,000 for it in 2020. Two weeks ago, I had a solar company approach me wanting to buy it um i entertained their offer and they offered me 1.3 million dollars wow nice and i i can't i fell into a pile of crap and came out smelling like a rose there you go man so so the uh wow you that's something you're living on the property right yes i am personal residence excellent okay

wow what's your question congratulations well i know about annuities and whole life term life and but I never really invested in anything like this because I grew up basically poor and I was never good with money until I read your book and started saving and right now I I want to set myself up and I want to set my son up to be successful down the road. Phenomenal. Wow. Way to go. Well, to start with, you will have capital gains taxes on anything over a $500,000 gain married filing jointly. You're married filing jointly, right?

I am single. You're married filing jointly, right? I am single. You're single. You will have capital gains on anything over $250,000 gain. So you're going to have capital gains on about $1 million. Okay. So that's probably going to be about $150,000, give or take. How much improvements have you done, capital improvements have you done capital improvements

have you done to the homestead while you've owned it um basically none okay all right i i've been trying to add an old house on the property that i live in i've been trying to save up to build a new house but it it's been a rough couple years farming i'll put it that way okay so i'm sorry well i the wonderful thing is it turned out like you said so the uh congratulations so uh the answer is you feel like you hit the lottery now what do i do with this big old pile of money that i didn't see coming so So emotionally experiencing it is part of the equation, right? And the way that I suggest folks do is they start giving a name to this because here's the thing.

You're going to have – do you have a mortgage on the property? I do. Between farm equipment and my farm, I owe about $300,000. Okay. So you're going to have, you know, give or take a million dollars in your hand. And if you don't watch, your brain will spend about $3 million of that million. It's been running. So we need to sit down very carefully and give every one of these dollars an assignment,

temporarily and long-term, both. And the first thing you would do is see a good tax advisor. Go to ramseysolutions.com and click on ELP for taxes and sit down with someone and properly calculate the amount of tax to hold aside because I don't want you spending that capital gains tax money and having trouble later. It's probably going to be around $150,000. Go ahead and get ready for that. And then you set that aside. You're going to pay off all the mortgages. And so, you know, we're going to be walking around with somewhere around $850,000 after those two things. Now we've got to decide what we're going to do with that. Now, what do you want to do with it well i've if everything goes correctly

i already found another little homestead uh for sale um he's probably going to be asking about 385 000 okay so that let's take 400 if you did that that's a reasonable purchase if you took 400 out of the uh out of the 850 now we got 450 what are you going to do with that well i was gonna put it back into retirement and maybe some annuity funds to just watch my money grow okay so some mutual fund investing uh and i don't think i would do annuities i think i would just do mutual funds. Just do mutual? Yes. Yes. And, again, RamseySolutions.com and click on SmartVestor Pro. But the point being here that even if you wanted to buy some more real estate with it, whatever you're going to do with it, here's a couple of rules.

Number one, decide ahead of time what you plan to do. And so if you said, I'm going to buy that other homestead, and I'm going to put $400 aside and $450 aside just in high-yield savings while I think about it. If you want to do that, that's okay. But you don't want to leave it there forever. That's your short-term play. Then your long-term play is, I might want to buy some other real estate, or I might want to improve the homestead, or I might want to put some money in mutual funds, or i might want to be generous with some of the money or i might want to take my kid on a trip with some of the money i don't care what you do with it

all i care is you do it on paper on purpose before you get the check okay because that's when your brain's still working when you get the check your brain needs to go into autopilot and execute the plan that you did before your brain quit working yep you see what i'm talking about because you have that who i mean i don't care who you are you make a million dollars it's sweet yeah it's my my mind's been racing yeah if i were you if i were you there's a big portion of this money i'd treat as though i never like i never saw it like i like that000 is just going to go straight into investing. It's like you never saw it.

And then pretend like it's not there. Yeah, like it never existed. How old are you? I am 32. Okay, so if you put it in mutual funds as an example and did what Jade said and just forgot it, if it averaged 10% when you're 39, 450 will be 900. When you're 46, your 900 will be 1.8.

Yeah. Yeah. When you're 54, your 1.8 will be 3.6 if you just don't touch it. That's what Jade's talking about, the power of compound interest. So sit down with a good SmartVestor pro, sit down with an ELP for taxes, and just develop you a game plan of exactly what you're going to do with this money. But what you're describing is all very smart. I didn't hear anything unwise, even in your tone. I didn't either. I like that you're thinking ahead of time. And I think that you kind of know this has the potential to go crazy if you don't sit down

and write out what your intentions are ahead of time. Yeah. If you think you can do something today with that money that sets you up for life, you're wrong. It's not enough. But it could be invested into something that could set you up. That's right. If you left it alone, to Jade's earlier point. And that's the thing. So, Billy, I'm going to be doing an advanced investing course, Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials, something I've never done before. I'm going to open up to the stuff I do and that very wealthy people do with real investments, not stuff on TikTok, May 21st and 22nd. It's a virtual event. I'm going to give you a free ticket because I want you to watch this event, those two nights,

because I'm going to teach you a lot about investing that I didn't have time to in this one-minute discussion or five-minute discussion we just had. Congratulations, sir. Thank you for calling. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Ken Coleman's book, Get Clear Assessment, has helped thousands, almost 100,000 folks now get a clear picture of the work they do best and that they love the most. And now we're excited to announce Ken's new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, which will show you how to use your results to get specific in your job search and find the work you love. Right now, you can preorder Find the Work You're Wired to Do, and you get the assessment built into the book, and you get a $25 free bonus item.

Plus, but hurry right now, today's the last day to preorder. So here's the deal. You're going to get the Get Clear assessment, the audio book, and the e-book, and the regular book. Each of them will have a code to take the assessment. So you're getting three assessments with this for one price as you just buy the book. But you've got to do it today, tomorrow's launch day, and the deals are gone. So go to ramsaysolutions.com slash store.

This assessment will help you figure out who you are, why you're wired that way, what you want to do professionally and how to get there thanks for joining us folks we're glad you're there check out ramsey solutions.com slash store rachel is with us rachel's in phoenix hi rachel welcome to the ramsey show hi thank y'all so much for having me sure Sure. What's up? All right. I'm trying to keep my fangirling at bay here. So I'm just excited to be talking to you all. Okay. Here's my situation.

I am selling a recreational vehicle that I own, a private party. And the interested buyer, she came out, looked at it, loved it, wants to buy it. And in our conversations, she has asked if I would be willing to say on paper a lesser amount than I am actually going to be receiving for the vehicle. So my question is, you know, as the seller seller is there a risk to agreeing to this why why does she want you to do that asking yeah what tax purposes how do you know, it gives me pause for sure. And I just, you know, if I were to agree to this, I just, I don't know what the possible ramifications would be. So you're more concerned about would you get caught? Or whether you're more, listen listen it sounds like you're more concerned

about whether you would get caught as opposed to whether this is wrong or right and i think that's what's giving me pause okay you tracking with me yeah yeah so morally no you're lying the no i would say no don't do that that's telling a lie and who cares if you could get away with it or not morally speaking that's a lie yeah okay I mean sounds like you might do what you want to do on this but since you asked us it's a lie I wouldn't do that and it's weird to me that is this somebody that you know or this is just a stranger it is a stranger yeah i know okay and you know and let me tell you what i would also say rachel is i would look at the person and say and i won't lie about this and everything i've told you about the rv is true also

because i wouldn't lie about it either. And so you should feel really comfortable buying this. Because I haven't misled you and I'm not willing to participate in misleading someone. 100%. I hate taxes. I hate taxes. I hate anyone having to pay taxes.

And I really hate income taxes. I hate taxes. I hate anyone having to pay taxes. And I really hate income taxes. But I pay 100% of what I am legally bound to pay in income taxes. Not a dollar more, not a dime more. And I will figure out any way I can that I can legally avoid them. But whatever the law requires, whatever the regulation requires, because I hate income taxes, and I hate the way the federal government operates, and I really don't want to give them money.

But more importantly than that, I don't want to be a person who doesn't have integrity. So I'm going to tell the truth, and i'm gonna pay a hundred percent of my taxes and this is just a a word to the wise for anyone hey beware of good deeds because this woman wanted to feel like hey you're gonna give me a tax break if you do this be aware of people who want to manipulate you to do something out of what seems like it could be a good deed, what seems like, oh, but this is the loving thing to do, but at the end of it is a lie, okay? Just word to the wise. Phillips in Washington, D.C. Hi, Phillip. How are you?

I'm doing good, Dave. Good. How can I help? Hey, Dave. I recently received an inheritance, and some of it was in cash. Some of it was in stocks. I left the stocks alone, the cash I put into a money market. And I'm able to pay off my mortgage if I wanted to, because I have more than double in the money market than I do on my mortgage. But my mortgage is two and a quarter percent and my money market's a little over four and a half. Would it be wise to go ahead and pay off that mortgage or let that money sit in the money market and just do a withdrawal from my bank automatically out of

that account? So what you're saying is you're deciding, how much do you own the mortgage? $125,000. And how much is this whole inheritance? What are we talking about? $310,000 in cash in the money market. Plus stocks. Yeah.

Not AI, plus stocks. Okay. So I would pay off your mortgage tomorrow, or maybe today, whichever one you want. Either one's okay, today or tomorrow. And the reason is very simple. As we studied 10,000 millionaires, the largest study a millionaire has ever done, none of them, precisely zero out of 10,000 said,

I became a millionaire because I borrowed on my mortgage and reinvested the money. Not one. Not a single one. So people that do the math equation that you're doing generally don't turn out to be wealthy. And the reason is they add risk to their lives. When you don't have a mortgage, it puts you in a completely different mindset, puts you in a completely different place with your relationships, with your career choices, with everything. When you don't have a single payment in the entire world, you have no other debt, right?

No other debt. Good. How old are you? 54. And who left you this money? My mom. So let me guess about your mom. Could I make a guess about her?

Would that be okay? Yes, please. My guess is the day you pay off your mom. Could I make a guess about her? Would that be okay? Yes, please. My guess is the day you pay off your mortgage, she's in heaven smiling because she was that kind of woman. Yeah, I would agree. Okay. I have a 529 that my son never used. And I'm trying to figure out also how to not get killed by withdrawing that out. The only thing, if you withdraw it out straight out,

you're going to hit a penalty on the growth. That's all, just on the growth. And taxes on the growth. And so I don't know how much it has grown versus what you put in it. What you put in it, there's no tax on. But the growth over what you put in it, What you put in it, there's no tax on. But the growth over what you put in it, the gain is taxable. And you can see one of our tax ELPs and get a full picture on that. That's independent from this other decision, though.

Let's pay off the mortgage. Yeah, absolutely. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're really glad you're here. Hey, if you want to help us, you can by subscribing to this show, following this show, sharing the link for the show, or clicking the share button.

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And it's because of you guys spreading the word. Thank you so much. And thank you for the five-star reviews. really really appreciate you this is the ramsey show thanks for joining us america i'm dave ramsey jade washaw ramsey personality is my co-host today britney is with us in saginaw mich Michigan. Hi, Brittany. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks. Sure. What's up? So, we've been going through a hard time, me and my husband, for the last two years. And I've been watching your show, and I just really need some help on what we should do to kind of get our credit up and get out of this hole.

So, what's going on? Tell us more. Well, last year in December, we had a house fire. Oh. kind of get our credit up and get out of this hole. So what's going on? Tell us more. Well, last year in December, we had a house fire. And that was only after an eviction the previous year. So it had killed us. The house fire, was it complete? Did it take everything? It was not. It was a double-wide that we had on land contract.

So it ended up in just a bunch of messy paperwork and us not getting, you know, our house or any of the money we put into it. So what's going on right now? You had the eviction. You had the house fire. Right now, since then, we have been trying to just save money, you know, and get. So we moved to Ohio and we got a good job down there. And that was a rental ending in disaster. Okay. Why? Well, the landlord had hooked up the gas wrong. Some children came through and smashed out all my front windows and she wouldn't get

them replaced for over a month. So we ended up leaving that, lost our security on that. You know, so it's just been one thing after another. And I'm just trying, you know, I watch you guys, and I'm trying to figure out, you know, live below your means. So you're in Saginaw, Michigan now? Yes. So from Ohio back to Michigan then. What's in Michigan, family?

Yeah, yep, we're both born and raised here. Okay. What kind of work are you guys doing? What's causing this kind of bouncing around? Yeah, so my husband does concrete. And so in the winter we kind of have a slowdown, two every year. Sometimes he can stay on depending on how big the contractor is, you know. But most of the time it's a layoff in the winter and so that kind of slowed us down okay but he's been in concrete for a while he's been

in concrete for a while yeah about 20 years okay so then we know that when winter comes it gets it gets slow right so what have you guys determined that during those winter months is a good move for him yeah so he actually has like a handyman that we run you know it's um okay so what does he what does he make a year and what do you make a year so he makes about 750 a week uh you know depending on how slow the winter is you know yearly it's a little bit fluctuating, but that's what we're getting right now. Okay, so I'll call it $45,000 to be conservative. What do you make? Yeah, so what I was actually going to ask you about, I had a catering business I was running out of our kitchen that burned along with it. The business didn't burn, the kitchen did.

That's right. So I haven't been working. Why? All my stuff's in storage. I'm paying for storage. You have a kitchen now, don't you? I do not. That's why I'm calling in today.

Where are you living now? Our credit got destroyed, and we have been bouncing around. Where are you living now? We are living in an RV, rent-to- are living in an RV rent-to-own. Why would you rent-to-own an RV? Well, we couldn't get approved for a rental apartment. Because your credit, is that the whole discussion around the credit? Yeah, we maxed out our credit cards after the fire,

and it's just been hard because our credit card went down so quickly you know you didn't have renter's insurance no ma'am okay so what i'm what i'm hearing here and dave will jump in uh it's just a series of very very bad decisions and they keep catching up with you but here's the thing uh i'm not convinced that you guys are learning from these mistakes i kind of feel like you keep doing the same thing over and over again um and it's to no avail so right that's why i'm kind of calling dave i was like you gotta know more than i do because something's going on well quit trying to uh jump in one jump out of the hole so you went from eviction to i felt trapped into a bad deal on a trailer and with a with and and it burned then you take off running to ohio for some ungodly reason nobody

knows why but then the place you move into there was a piece of crap and you get in the same exact thing and then you come back and your answer to all of that was to rent an rv none of these four things work none of them work after i tried to get my to get the apartment so we kept yeah i know well some apartment somewhere i don't know what or where or who but somebody without trying to you don't need to own anything you just need to get a rental and you need to pile up cash and you need to get on a rutting budget and and get your pans back out and start cooking again or doing anything at this point or or work and doing anything anything you can do to add some

money to this equation because if it if we can double your income a lot of this starts to smooth out very very quickly if we can just increase your income it starts to smooth out very quickly and then slow down and quit a lot of these decisions sound like you were very afraid and desperate when you made them i would say yeah and i because i can smell it because i used to do that a lot i have found that the that when I'm desperate right after I get desperate when I get stupid yeah and and that kind of shows up in a pattern here and it's not saying you're stupid I'm just saying you did some stuff that's cost you and admittedly you told us that and so what I want you to do is go find some very solid predictable rental situation and you don't have to do it by the

weekend but i do want you to do it this month and move into that out of an rv get your family settled in get your stuff out of storage quit paying storage to store stuff you should be making money with and i'm not convinced that you guys are steadily making three to four thousand dollars a month i think that that's on a good month so i want to make sure that both of you him in the off times has something steady because i think the handyman thing is there but well it can be steady if you fill it up yeah but you got to fill it up well he's had 20 years it can't be i don't do anything and i call that being a handyman yeah it's handy to not do much you can't do that okay that's right you gotta be you gotta be handyman in like 15 hours a day uh and you can make really good money doing that by the way better

than you're making in concrete you could grow that business and get out of the concrete business completely you gotta get handyman a lot of them are making 100k right now uh so you set that business up and fill yourself up with taking care of rich people doing little tiny stuff they don't want to screw with and uh going there dressed nice and bathed and clean tools and clean shoes and take care of business and charge yeah good money for a tiny little job and you can you can really make a good living doing that if you build the business out now if you don't want to do that that's fine if you want to stay in concrete but let's build it out enough that it's handy that you're making $2,000 when you're not doing concrete. I want wifey working, too. Wifey needs to get in.

She needs to get those pots and pans out, baby. I don't think it's the pots and pans. I think that because there's only so much catering you're going to be able to do out of a double wide. I think that she needs it. No, no, no. It's an RV. You're not doing any. That's what I'm saying.

She needs it. You've got to get out of there into something where there's a kitchen. That's true. And either get a job or get that kitchen fired up. One of the two. You're not doing any. That's what I'm saying. You got to get out of there into something where there's a kitchen and either get a job or get that kitchen fired up. One of the two or both or both. Go make a bunch of money and slow down on your big decisions. And when your heart rates up and there's a little bit of sweat on your upper lip and in the palms of your hands, it indicates fear.

Don't make a decision because you're getting ready to do something dumb. All of you, everybody listening, including me, fear does not lead to good decisions and desperation does not lead to good decisions and scared and stuck and forced to. And these kinds of words come out of your mouth right before you do something dumb. And I've done a bunch of it, Brittany. So I'm not picking on you, honey. I know where you are. And we'll put you guys into Financial Peace University right now and get you started on learning how to handle money. We've got to get the income side of the equation and the housing both stabilized for you to be able to prosper and move forward. The instability of your housing situation and your income is what has caused you to be sitting in this crisis. Those two things combined. And you get those two things fixed, you're going to find this thing stabilized pretty

quick. This is The Ramsey Show. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Mark is in Nashville. Hey, Mark, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Yes, sir. Thank you for taking my call. is in Nashville. Hey, Mark, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Yes, sir. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. How can I help? My profile's a little bit different than your usual profile. Okay. I am 69 1⁄2 years old. I am single, unexpected divorce 10 years ago. I went for a career change from full-time ministry to being a registered nurse. And I want to know how to plan for my retirement.

Okay. All right. So now you're a nurse these days? Yes, sir. Okay, cool. When did you make that transition? Finished nurse school four years ago. Wow.

Cool. Interesting. Good for you. Okay, so what's your financial situation what's kind of money you got saved okay uh through divorce lost all all our saved assets i was married to someone a little bit younger and our plan was to you know i retire first she keeps working and we can be generous and give and take care of our children, build a nest egg, buy a mortgage. Anyway, that's all off the rails. So I earn roughly $70,000. I have $20,000 a year.

I took an early pension from my previous career, so my income is basically $90,000. My child support of about $18,000 a year will be ending at the end of June. You have an 18-year-old? Yes. Okay. And a 24-year-old. And then I have a $10,000 college loan from the U.S. government. Do you have any money saved? Yes, $5,000.

Well, I had $100,000 before the divorce. No, I know now. Do you have any money now? No. $5,000 in mutual fund and $5,000 in cash. Okay. All right. And the divorce was final when?

Back in 2013 so over a decade ago over 10 years ago and yet you still save no money i've had child support and i had nursing school and related expenses okay all right but now you're ready to save money, okay? Well, of course. So that's been my plan. So the answer is to pile up as much money as fast as you can, obviously. You already knew that. You didn't need me for that. How can I help? Well, I have a question. What's your living situation? How are you living? Are you renting? Do you own a home? I am Airbnb. I'm paying basically $1,000 a month. You live in airbnb and you're paying a thousand a month okay correct okay well for you it's the baby steps like anybody else i mean the first step is you've got to pay off this ten thousand loan that you have you got ten thousand and that let's knock that out instantly you're

making ninety thousand a year you're single you'll you have a very low i'm going to call it rent compared to everybody else out there who's you know would be looking for a rent today so how quickly how quickly could you pay off the ten thousand dollar loan in two months um haven't done all the math on that well i I'm only paying like $140 a month on that loan. $5,000 a month for two months. Well, you've already got $5,000 cash, so you could put $4,000 on it now and then have the rest paid off within the next two months. So that puts you down to a $1,000 emergency fund. You've now paid off your debt in two months.

Now, the key after that is we've got to save up some emergency funds. And as quickly as you can, save up three to six months. In your case, I might start with three to four months and then move on and start baby step four and get to retiring. Yeah, I want to start saving money by Christmas. Yeah. I want you to have $10,000 in the bank and be rid of the $10,000 before Christmas. And then start investing like crazy. Sit down with a smart investor pro and dump as much money as you can towards retirement and build up.

And then once you get that going, I'm going to start thinking about, you sound like you're in very good health. I'm going to start thinking about buying something to live in because you can stabilize because at some point out in the future, 10 years from now, let's say that rent's going to double, triple, whatever it does. And when you can buy something, you lock in the most expensive line item in your personal budget, which is your home budget, your cost of housing, whether it's rental or mortgage or whatever it is. And let's get in that as fast as we can. Something very inexpensive.

And it sounds like you're living in something modest now. So a modest one-bedroom condo that you pay cash for or that you almost pay cash for and pay off very quickly. That kind of a thing is out there, depending on where you're doing your nursing work and what the proximity around town is and all those kinds of things. But, yeah, I'm sorry, Mark. You've obviously been through a lot of pain and heartache and heartbreak with that divorce. I'm very sorry for you. It does sound like you've painted yourself into a new future, and I like that painting.

It looks good. Let's lean towards that that and it's easy to look back and talk about what once was and it's it hurts but it's very important that you lean into the future right now and clean up this debt put an emergency fund in place and then start stacking cash in an investment and then start thinking about buying a home at some point in the process. So good questions. Hey, thanks a bunch. Very cool. Yeah, that's crazy.

Steven is in Knoxville. Hi, Steven. How are you? I'm doing wonderful. How's it going, Dave and Jade? Better than we deserve. What's up? Hey, so my wife and I, we are ministers, and right now we're bringing in about, I don't know, $47,000 or so a year.

The question I have is, and we have no debt, and we have a fully funded emergency fund of about $10,000. The question I have is, she has an old 401k, and it's about $65,000. And I was wondering, this is from a previous job, is it a good idea to roll that over into a Roth IRA, pay the taxes on it now, and then continue to fund that Roth? If you're 100% debt-free and you have extra money, that's house and everything, then I would consider doing that. Otherwise, I wouldn't. You wouldn't roll that into a Roth no i would not okay now the other the other thing is you

have a house mortgage 20 no no we rent we uh we travel a lot as ministers okay do you um do you uh have the extra money to pay the taxes that that would create, $15,000, $20,000 if you did that? Would the taxes just come out of what's been built? No, I don't want you to do that. I want you to roll the whole thing or don't do it. Yeah, so we do have $25,000 in a taxable brokerage account as well. In addition to your emergency fund. Exactly.

And you're 100% debt free. 100%. Okay. Then if you want to roll that to a Roth and you want to use that brokerage fund to pay the taxes, you're going to come out ahead. It has the mathematical effect of having invested an extra $20,000 into your Roth. That's what the math effect of it. But if you take the $60,000 and you drain it down to $40, 40 just to pay the taxes, that 20 you took out to pay taxes would have grown to enough to pay the taxes, so all you did was break even. How important is it that they do it now versus waiting several years? The sooner the better because from this point forward,

it's 100% growth tax-free. So, yeah, but if you want to use the $20,000 out of your brokerage to do that it's an extra way to invest into retirement how old are you guys steven i'm 29 and my wife is 35 okay it's going to hugely benefit you but you've got to have the rest of your life figured out not not the whole rest of your life but i mean the other parts of your life today figured out like cars and whatever else that brokerage money was you were sniffing around that brokerage account to do something else because now i just spent it yeah that that i think that's the thing because we have a 20 year old car and we do want to have

kids there so yeah and pay cash for whatever no debt no future debt because of this move but if you can pay the taxes with outside money rolling to a Roth with zero debt house and everything of course you don't have a house that's easy but then then yeah the Roth makes mathematical sense to do that and as you become very wealthy later that having all of it in Roth is really handy from a retirement standpoint and from an inheritance standpoint in particular. So really good move to get it to a Roth, but does no good at all to use the money out of the IRA to pay the taxes. It just nets out the same. So hope that helps you, man. Thank you for your call. This is

The Ramsey Show. Thank you. We'll see you next time.