The Ramsey Show - App - Help Me Decide: Pay Off the House or Invest (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 27, 2022

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host of The Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about getting the job that you love, making the money that you should make, and all things jobs and career. And if you've got questions about that, jump in. He's here to help. And we're going to talk about your life and your money. It's what we always do. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Dan is in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Hi, Dan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave and crew. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So here's my situation.

I'm 61 years old. I'm going to be 62 in January. I'll be retiring from corporate America. I'm married 42 years. I purchased a home in Pennsylvania this past April while my New York home was up for sale. And for that Pennsylvania home, I got a 30-year variable rate mortgage for $495,000. And it's currently fixed at two point eight percent for the next 10 years with a payment of twenty seven hundred a month. I sold my New York home shortly after I closed on the PA home. So my question is, should I take the five hundred thousand from the sale of my New York home and pay off the Pennsylvania mortgage or should I invest that five hundred thousand

in a managed Fidelity van door to some other index fund and use that interest on the $500,000 to pay off the PA home at least for the next 10 years and then reassess the situation? Because I have no debt other than that PA mortgage. My wife and I should be bringing home about $11,000 a month when we retire as I have a pension and I got $1.1 million in my 401k, which is mostly sitting in cash money market now. Why? What should I do?

Why is it in cash and money markets? Well, you know, I've had invested in index funds for two 25 years and I've done well. And they're on sale right now. I'm nervous. I mean, had I had that in there where my market's losing 20 this year so that's what scared me uh i i dabbled back in about a month ago i put the 300 000 into the market again split it in index funds small medium large uh cap index funds 33 and a third so

i i don't know i think the market's on hey i'm your age. I think the market's on. Hey, I'm your age, and I think the market's on sale. I haven't taken any out, and I'm putting money in. I think it's a good buy right now. So you can do what you want to do, but I wouldn't have a million ones sitting on the sidelines making no money. That'd drive me nuts. Now, what about the mortgage? I'd pay it off tomorrow.

And not use the interest on that. You've asked this question suggesting the answer six times, and so you really don't want to pay off the mortgage. You really want to invest it. But let me tell you why I'm telling you to pay it off. In our study of 10,000 millionaires that are sitting about where you're sitting, the vast majority of them were between $1 and $3 million net worth, which is exactly where you're sitting.

We did not find any of them that said, not one, not a single one, that said the way I became a millionaire was borrowing on my home to invest in the stock market. None of them said that. And effectively, that is your question, isn't it? Yes. Should I borrow on my home at 2.8% and invest in index funds? Oh, wait, I've got a million-one on the sidelines because I'm scared of the market,

and I don't think it's going to do that well. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You answered my question. Hey, Dan, listen listen here's the thing uh if i were in your shoes and i and i am in the sense that we're about the same age i would be 100 debt free and i'd get back in the market uh with the other money and you're going to have a great life the sense of peace that you have when you have zero debt is not definable with mathematics and you've worked your butt off and you have done a great job of building a high quality retirement dude you're a stud you have killed this and i'm well i've used your principles.

I've been putting 13% of my salary away for 28 years. And you're a baby steps millionaire, an everyday millionaire. Nobody gave you any money. You're the guy that got up, left the cave, killed something, and dragged it home. You showed up at work when you didn't feel like it and got stuff done. You got grit. You're that guy. That's how you got where you are i know that

about you because i can tell i can see it in the numbers you don't get where you are being a melting snowflake okay you get where you are grinding and and and showing up and being a man of honor and a man of duty and that that's who you are am i wrong wrong? That's what I did. Yeah. And so it wasn't fancy and it wasn't sexy and all your get-rich-quick friends thought you were slow. But you weren't slow. You kicked all of them's butt. Because here you sit with probably about a $2 million net worth, give or take. And you did it, man. So I want you to enjoy this season where you've lived like no one else you

paid a price now you get to live and give like no one else and not having a mortgage while you're on vacation somewhere around the world with your wife enjoying your 42 years of marriage um it's it's a different thing man and i want that for you i want that sense of peace that sense of power um we don't need to arbitrage your home we don't need to leverage your home for you to win you won you already won yeah and i love the advice that you give because i just walked through that scenario and he's got a house that's right at uh he didn't tell us he told us what the mortgage is it's probably worth more than the 495 way more than, way more than that. And so now, all of a sudden, with having no debt, you have this asset that's extremely valuable. If you need to liquidate,

it's there. Not to mention he's invested, you know, and he's done so much. No, he's not going to need it. But that's the whole idea is not carry the debt at all. This idea of, well, I'm going to pay my mortgage off with the interest. What's the temptation to follow that? You're going to have $20,000. He what's the temptation to follow that you're going to have 20 he's got 11 000 already coming in when he puts that million one to work and creates another 10 15 000 bucks a month yeah he's gonna have 20 25 000 a month to live on and have no payments this sounds like a good life to me i like your life it sounds like the american dream and i'm proud of you i'm proud of you man he's he's who we're trying to get people to be 100 he's the poster child yeah yeah well neither one of us are children anymore but yeah it's a poster something it's a metaphor we're poster

somethings ken but we're not sure which you guys are young still i think you got to get to 80 85 before you can call yourself old in today's world just the older i get the older my grandpa when he was 80 he kept talking about this guy down the street he said that old man and i'm like grandpa you're 80 he goes yeah but he's older than me he's an old man so it's true no matter how old you get somebody older hopefully well at some point you run out of candidates though listen that guy dan dan you're a stud man i'm so proud of you and i would just enjoy this and uh don't overthink it you didn't get here by overthinking it you got here by executing steady rhythm you stuck with it the grit that's how you got here just keep doing that

not by trying to get fancy this is the ramsey show Rhythm, you stuck with it. The grit, that's how you got here. Just keep doing that. Not by trying to get fancy. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing

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Yeah, me too. Think of all the money mistakes that would have never happened. Well, parents, even though you can't go back in time, you can make sure your teens learn how to handle their money now while they're in school, like how to budget, how to save, how to spend wisely, how to avoid debt. Foundations in personal finance is the homeschool curriculum we put together here at Ramsey. It'll give your teens the tools they need to win with money, to pay cash for college, to stay out of debt.

And it's not just another homeschool curriculum. It is a life-changing course that will completely transform how your teens think about money. So give your teens the money skills they need now for the rest of their lives. Foundations in Personal Finance Homeschool Curriculum. Find out more at RamseySolutions.com slash homeschool. Annie is with us. Annie is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Annie.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, y'all. Thank you for taking the call. Sure. What's up? My father-in-law's family owned a property that the home was demolished because it had fallen into disrepair. We thought that the property would sit there forever because it's not in a desirable neighborhood. But then we received a property sale agreement for the property saying they would pay us about $5,000 for the property.

After they pay all the liens, escrow taxes, recording fees, all of that. We thought that this sounded like a great deal, but they haven't done a title search. We don't have the money to do a title search unless we use our emergency fund. So we think that this is going to fall through, but we don't know if we need to do a title search and try to resolve this property with the other heirs. There's no money that we know of to be made off of it because of the liens and taxes that are back taxes at this point. We just don't know what to do. We don't want to use our emergency fund but we it's not your responsibility it's not your money it's not your responsibility

okay it's not your property okay is it no it is still in the grandmother's name yeah well but i'm saying and she didn't have a will. Right. It has not gone through probate. Okay. When did she die? 2002. Good Lord. Okay. And how many heirs does she have?

My husband would be the one on this side, and then there is a son on the other side that is still living. There's only two people? Right. on the other side that is still living there's only two people right because the other son is still alive the property owner's son is still alive on one side and then he has all of his kids and then my husband was the only surviving child of the owners okay. So there's only two. Surviving child. Right. He has brothers and sisters that passed. Did they have kids?

He had a brother that passed in 2009 and never had children. Okay. All right. Then, yeah, those are the two heirs, it sounds like. So both of them ought to be able to get together and sign a deed, shouldn't they? But doesn't it have to go through probate? Ask a title company in your state. I'm not sure.

Okay. 2002, if you can just both of you sign affidavits that you're the only heirs and you sign it. I'm not sure it'll be good enough for title policy, but you can probably transfer the title, depending on your state. I don't know your state's laws that well. Well, they are advertising this property for sale, the company that reached out to us. How are they advertising it for sale?

They don't own it. I don't know. But I accidentally found it on Zillow one day. Yeah, well, you need to call them and tell them not to advertise it for sale since they don't own it okay if they want to buy and close on it then they can put it up for sale but we shouldn't use our emergency fund no you should not use any money okay you should be just let the buyer pay the cost to have the title searched and have them place it with a title company and if the title company can tell you whether you've got to run it through probate, and if they want to run it through probate, they can pay the cost for that.

It's not worth it. It's not worth anything. It's not going to put any money in your pocket. Okay. You told me that. Right. And we are living paycheck to paycheck except for our very small. Do not pay any money for a transaction here okay the only thing you want to

do is have your husband and his his uh uncle i guess it is or whatever it is sign a deed and get money that's the only thing we want to do here there's no other transaction there's no other calories but let the people know they don't need to be advertising the property unless uh unless they want to close on it. And they need to go to the title company. And the title company can tell them whether they need to go through probate or not. Okay. But you're, yeah, they should stop.

They don't need to be advertising something they don't own. These goobs. But it sounds like it's more trouble than it's worth. I think I just forget about it and move on with my life. It doesn't sound like by the time you finish all this you're going to end up with anything except a bunch of worry and headaches do not write any checks under any circumstances for this property it is not your problem it's someone else's problem that's simple virginia is with us in orlando hi, Virginia. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking the call. Sure. What's up? Well, I called back in March and got through and had asked for advice about paying down my mortgage, making a rather large $50,000 pay down on my mortgage. And after some discussion, we all came to the realization that was a good idea.

So I did. And I've still been aggressively paying on my mortgage while putting money towards my emergency fund and savings. And then last week, I found out that my position at work is being eliminated. So I have a couple of options. I had planned on working another seven to ten years, continuing to build up retirement.

So I can look for another position. I've got about 40 days to do that. Or I can take the severance package. I've been there over 35 years. I can take the severance package and early retirement, utilize my retirement benefits for insurance, et cetera. And I do have a 401k through work, as well as a small beneficiary IRA.

How old are you? I'm 55. Okay. You can't access the 401k. I don't know why you can't take retirement package severance and go get a job. Well, I can't go get a job. So I think I can take the severance package and get a job well i can't go get a so i think i can take the severance package in retirement yeah together um i do have a pension through my employer and i think i can access that

yep um and i ran just the estimator on it if i take it as a single life annuity it would be 1400 and change a month i would take it as a lump sum and roll it into an ira and not take it and go get a job ah it's both and well and that was going to be my that was going to be my question so my first option is the monthly option nope or i can take the lump sum which is like 300 and change yep roll that into an ira and keep working so i can take severance and early retirement yep and then go out and get another job yes yep you weren't ready to be out to pasture and i'm not putting you out to pasture and this is virginia this is known as a win-win if you look at a signing bonus into the next deal

well but it's going to be a highly taxed signing bonus because it's being paid as a lump sum. What? The retirement or the severance? The severance. Well, good. Take it. It's what signing bonuses are taxable. Yeah, I'd go get a job, kiddo. No question.

What'd you do? Yeah, this fast-forward is everything. Yeah. Everything. Paying off the house faster. Got a big bunch of money and just extra stuff, extra money. Oh, darn. Fire me again, please.

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Jordan is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Jordan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. I owe $11,000 on a car that doesn't run, and I can't afford to fix it, and I really don't know what to do. Ouch. Why can't you afford to fix it and I really don't know what to do. Ouch. Why can't you afford to fix it? Um, I just don't have the money. All right. Follow-up question. Why don't you have any money?

Well, I am working. Um, it's just a car that I got back in high school, and my parents were getting me the car, but I'm having to pay for it. How much would it cost to fix? $10,000. Who said? thousand dollars who said um we've got lots of estimates around my area and it's been to multiple body shops um oh so you got you got in a wreck and didn't have insurance no um basically they've told me the make and model of my car is not working anymore. Like, they put a bad piston in it. You don't go to a body shop for that? That would be a mechanic, not a body shop.

I put it to all kinds of mechanics and people. Okay. So what do you make a year? Monthly, about $1,500 to $1,800 1800 what do you do i'm an interior designer and a chef at a fine dining restaurant no you're a sous chef yes sous chef yeah chefs don't make 1800 okay um at fine dining, anyway. So, what are you, 23? 22.

I'm sorry? 22. 22. Okay. Good guess, Dave. Like you've done this before. Mm-hmm. Okay.

And you have a roommate? Or you live at home? I live at home. So you don't have overhead and you bring in... No, I don't. You bring in $1,800 a month. Where does that money go? I've been paying off my car with it, saving it. I have about $4 thousand five hundred saved up i'm i just recently

signed up for financial peace university and um i'm on baby step two good for you i still owe eleven thousand i got yeah and that's is that your only debt is your car um i have one thousand dollars in medical bills okay good good okay and you're working a lot yes and not making any money no the life of a chef a sous chef okay yeah yeah um you are you putting in more than 40 hours Okay. Yeah, an assistant. Yeah, yeah. Are you putting in more than 40 hours? I'm not sure because... How are you getting to work? I think I'm borrowing my mom's car right now because her and my stepdad work at the same job okay all right

well it sounds like you've got a wonderful support system you've got a place to live while you fight your way through this and you've just got a a horrible car situation you're being very smart you're taking a class on how to handle money very smart uh you've saved up forty five hundred dollars very smart uh so the weak spot in your story me looking in from the outside is your income you don't make any money yeah so um your is your dream to be a fine dining chef? No, I went to school for interior design, and when I got out of school, I instantly went into a design company where I am now the designer's assistant. And that's your day job? Yes.

And what do you make at that 15 an hour this is the same amount but that is um under the table because i'm just her assistant like she works by herself okay so two different areas of your life we've got to work on. Your long-term play is you need a path for interior design that's not $15 part-time under the table. I just did get my degree in interior design. Okay, great. So you're completely underpaid and underemployed there. And in addition to that, your other job is an underpaid job as well just by the nature

of what it is uh and so uh what we've got to do is we got to get your day job cooking better better much better interior design day job and a much better night job and sous chef's not it because you need three four thousand dollars a month coming in and you can solve this problem real quick yeah but you're you're starving to death yeah so let's let's work on the two sides of your career go get a much better part-time job than sous chef sous chef's not your dream anyway it's hard freaking work it's hot back there yeah i mean it that's some of the hardest thankless jobs the chef gets all the credit and you do all the work uh and most sous chefs are chef wannabes and they're it's their dream to be a big-time chef you don't even want to do that and you're you say and so with that in mind that job sucks completely i know but you need to you need to go do something where you make some

money kiddo that's right now raise your sights in the interior design side of things. You've got a degree. You've got some experience. You're very creative as a sous chef. All that creativity is what you love. But Dave's right. You've got to say, if I've got to go work for a construction company and stage rooms, I'm going to do that for a season.

Well, there's nothing wrong with that. That's good money doing that. That's right. Why? Because we want to get out of this financial hole. The good news is you're off and running on the baby steps. So glad you're doing that. But we're going to make the move right now to get stable in the now, and you're not in any way forfeiting your dream of interior design. So that's the key. You can always get back to that, but right now we've got to get more money coming in that's going to change everything for you yeah i want you to go pick up three jobs a new interior design

job that's a thousand times better than the one you got and two part-time jobs that pay big money and i want you to work all the time and get you three four five thousand dollars a month coming in and all of a sudden this car issue will evaporate and um uh by the way i'm not buying that you owe eleven thousand dollars on a car that needs ten thousand dollars worth of repairs i don't either i i'm just an old redneck that turns wrenches and so don't believe it i I just don't believe it. And so I think there's something else to do here. You may want to junk the car and get what you can get for it with a little bit of work, but you probably get $3,000 or $4,000 for anything that's running. And then just talk to the bank about you paying the difference

and then work your way through that and go get you a junker car, a $2,000 or $3,000 or $4,000 car that you pay cash for, then start working your debts off. But you've got to work twice as much as you're working at much better jobs. That's the solution to your situation. And I need to hear more of a roar in your voice. You sound really, really, really like you're 16. I want you to go, ah, get after it, kiddo.

You've got some skills. And all this stuff keeps happening to you. And I want you to rise up and go happen to this stuff. You've got some stuff. You can go do this. I agree. You know what? Here's a practical example of that that Dave's giving you here.

Listen, get your dad or your uncle or friends that know some good old boy that's been working on cars for longer than you've been alive times three and have him look at it. Let's really dive into this thing. That's taking some action. Yeah. You've got to happen to these things. You've kind of accepted one job, accepted another. You need to go get some stuff, and that's going to put you in this situation. You need income is what you need, bad, and you need a better solution on the car than

$10,000 to fix it. Get it limping, get it sold, get out from under it, move on to the next thing, get you a $3,000 car to drive. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 21, 25. The desire of the sluggard kills him, for his hands refuse to labor. Jim Rohn says, Successful people do what unsuccessful people are not willing to do. Don't wish it were easier.

Wish you were better. Woo! Game on. Yeah, the legend dropping it. Yeah. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, my co-host today. Julie is in Dallas. Hi, Julie.

How are you? Hi, Ken and Dave. Hey, what's up? I'm good. So we are a newer military family. We'll be leaving the Dallas area next May. And we currently own a home here. And so we're kind of wondering, do we sell the house or do we keep it as a rental property? Okay. No, you don't want a long-distance landlord. You don't want a long-distance landlord. Okay. Where are you moving to? Still unsure. Okay.

Well, give me a guess. Georgia or Oklahoma. Okay. You're living in Georgia and you get ready to buy a rental house. You're going to buy a rental house in Georgia. You're going to buy a rental house in georgia you're going to buy one in dallas so the only way you ended up with a dallas rental property was by default not by plan okay you you don't want to back into being uh a landlord you want to you want the property within a you know

within your city and you're within a driving range of your area get dialed in there that kind of thing that's where you want it to be and so long distance landlording is um it's bad for business thanks for your service by the way we appreciate it all right it looks like robertson los angeles hey robert welcome to the ramsey show hi thank you for accepting my call um nervous uh okay so uh my my question is, I got reached out to by a recruiter, a third-party recruiter that this aerospace company hired. I really love where I work, but I don't know what questions to ask when I talk to this direct hire position recruiter. What do you love most about where you work? The people. I'm a military.

I used to be in the Army for five years, and now I work for the Space Force as a contractor. So I just love the space. You love the space. And the camaraderie. Would you say that you love the work? Or let's say 75% of your day, do you love what you're doing? Yes, yes, I would say so. I mean, it's, um, why would you leave? I think, well, this new position is a leadership position and it's higher paying. Sure. So the reason I asked you, Robert, those first two questions is that is the base of the questions that you will ask this recruiter. And if you get in an interview process, your questions have to be determining if this new

opportunity has all of the ingredients or has that list of the things that you love. You don't want to just take a leadership opportunity for the sake of taking the leadership opportunity if it is in a culture that doesn't have the kind of people that you love to be around, if it doesn't include the work that you love to do. You don't want to be the leader of a bunch of doofuses. That's right. Or lead underneath people that are doofuses. So it's okay to kick the tires and have a conversation. But you ask what questions should you ask? Questions designed to get you the answers

that you need to know is this the kind of place that i'm in now is it similar enough to go okay this makes sense for the things that i care about yeah leadership opportunity and money will both go away rapidly if you get into a toxic environment yes and that that was my concern and i'm trying to weed that out yeah so take your time take your time yeah here's a couple sample questions to get to what you were actually identifying so i would describe i would ask a question like this how would you describe the culture here it's an open-ended so they can't give you a yes or no answer and if they start doing that politics speak you ever seen a politician on tv never answer the question yes

okay so hey that's a bad sign because a healthy leader and a place where there's intentional culture and you ask that question, two things happen. Number one, they give you a real description and number two, they're impressed with the question that you ask. So that's one thing to determine. What's the culture like? How do you treat people what what do you as leaders value for the people that work here here's another sample question describe the person who wins in this organization same exact result you're going to learn as much about them and then they're going to be impressed uh with the kind of question you ask so remember this and i say this to people all the time dave the interview process is just as much for you the the job seeker, as it is for the potential employer. Don't forget that.

Yeah, and listen, it is, how old are you? 33. It is at any age. So I'm 62 saying you're valuable is not kind of nice. Yeah, it's very flattering. It's flattering. It feels good to be wanted, to be respected. And just the act of being recruited is flattering.

It feels good. Okay? recruited is a uh is flattering isn't it feels good okay don't confuse that affirmation that the recruiter is giving you with the fact that there may or may not be a good job on the other side of this so go go in here with some very analytical take your time really dig in because you you got a good spot and just because some goober called you off of LinkedIn or whatever does not mean that you need to leave. And you may be able to develop leadership opportunities where you are. Well, you should be looking for it.

I love that, Dave, because that was Robert's response. Hey, it's a leadership opportunity. Well, hey, go sit down with your current leaders and go, hey, I want to grow here. I love this company. Here's why I love this company. And then say, I know I got to earn it. So as my leader, what do you think that I need to do? Tell me what I could do to add value. And let them create a plan for you. And you might find yourself climbing the ladder where you are. And so, but I love that you're kicking the tires but

remember you're in total control here you're the one asking the questions and if it doesn't feel right trust that feeling we joke about that feeling you know sharon rams has got a world class feeling that you've told us about but you know that neuroscience has actually proven that that is the same thing that feeling that we have is our brain sending a physical signal to our body. So trust that feeling. Yeah, absolutely. You know, Robert, it occurs to me that you're not going to do well in a leadership position until you've learned to lead. And I'm going to give you a book recommendation by my friend Seth Godin. His favorite book he ever wrote is called Lynchpin. Lynchpin, yeah.

Great. And I would read Lynchpin. And basically what it amounts to is there's several kinds of leaders. There's leaders that are given a title, and that puts them in charge, which doesn't really make you a leader. It makes you a boss. Then you have the opportunity to lead from that position. But you can lead up.

Yes. You can lead around you you can you know by becoming a leadership john maxwell says his influence yes and so become influential do things where you're serving helping lifting uh other people and uh and create influence what dave has just described is in order to learn how to lead, you got to learn how to follow. And I think following well, learning to, hey, I'm going to respect the authority. I'm going to serve the authority. I'm going to do all those things that you talked about. By the way, John Maxwell has a book that addresses that. It's called The 360-Degree Leader, this idea of leading all the way around you through simply being influential. And I think learning how to follow and then writing things down. Hey, this is what I appreciate

about my current leader. This I would probably do differently. Take notes as a follower. Take notes so that when you get the opportunity to lead, you've got some real life experience. I know that when a leader did this for me, I excelled. I know that when a leader did this for me, I excelled. I know that when a leader did this, I didn't. I can tell you exactly where I was standing at 23 years old the first time I experienced a leader that I knew actually cared about me. That's powerful. I know exactly where I was standing. Where were you i was working for a new home uh company i was selling homes and the big boss came in

and we were walking between the models and uh look at the way three model homes and we're walking between two of the models and we're between the second one and the third one i can show you the sidewalk that's that's And he stopped and turned and started asking questions about me, and you could feel it and see it in his eyes that he actually did care. And I was blown away because I've never worked for anybody like that before. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.