The Ramsey Show - App - Help Me Decide: Starter Home vs. Forever Home (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 4, 2022

Home Buying, Education, Debt, Budgeting, Career As heard on this episode: Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/3rZTUAx Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2Q64HME Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/3sXwUn5 Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/3utmVXi Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3fHhbVE

I'm Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you live your best life by being healthy relationally, successful professionally, and peaceful financially. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined today by my good friend, Ken Coleman, best-selling author, host of The Ken Coleman Show, and we're excited to take your calls. The number to call is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Clinton kicks us off in Detroit, Michigan. Clinton, welcome to the show. How are you doing? Doing great. How can Ken and I help? So right now I'm in a particular situation where I have a couple options when it comes to buying my first home. Okay, cool. I could either wait and save up more money and not buy a

home this year, which I'm never against. Or I could get started with a starter home and spend the next, I know personally by myself in Michigan, I could probably get that done, the mortgage done in about three to five years by myself. But I am recently married last year. And I'm just wondering if since I can get it done and it would still be affordable, if I should maybe bump that up about $50,000 to $100,000 more on a mortgage loan and get started on a family house, which me and my wife can plan to live in in the next 25 to 30 years and kind of grow into the home. So I'm just wondering which option might be best for me right now. Okay. What's the household income? Right now I make about $120,000. My wife will be graduating

this semester to be a nurse. Awesome. So you guys are going to have a great income. Yeah, it's going to work out pretty well. I love that. Okay. And you guys are debt free? Do we have any debt on the table right now? I do have a cargo debt. I still have about $13,000 on that. And my wife is going to have about $20,000 in student loan debt that we will be, we already have a budget set for her to pay that off within a year. Okay. And that's all the debt. Do you guys have any savings right now? Any emergency fund? Yes. I have about $25,000 saved up right now. Okay. And then do you have a down payment fund outside of that? No. Okay. So that's all the numbers here. I just want to get clear. So, Clinton, I love the idea of you buying a home, and I personally would start with that smaller starter home.

If you guys are patient and you want to get a home that is going to be able to fit, there's a lot of what-ifs here with buying. I don't like the term forever home because there's really no such thing. I mean, we can plan on life happening, and we lived there for 30 years, and it's happily ever after, but a lot of life can happen in 30 years. And so I don't like to plan in that way. But what I am seeing here is, have you been listening to us for a while? No, I just recently started about two weeks or so. Okay, cool. We have a process called the baby steps. And this is the same one that you'll hear

in Financial Peace University that's helped 10 million people. And these are steps that are in order, focused intensity, one at a time that build incrementally. And it starts with Baby Step 1 where you get $1,000 in a starter emergency fund. Now, obviously, you have that off to the side. Baby Step 2 is the debt snowball where we pay off all of our consumer debt from smallest to largest regardless of the interest rate. And then outside of that, we build the fully funded emergency fund that you currently have. So right now we're trying to do like 17 things at once. Like when I try to talk to my wife while she's sending a text, there's nothing.

She just cannot. And so – Same thing with Stacey? Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Now men are just as guilty, but that's my example. So here's the thing. I want you to do these steps in order because I know they work and they worked for me. And I'm here at Baby Step 7 and I've got a paid for home. And so I'm going to talk to you as if I was talking to myself or a good friend.

You've got $25,000 and you have $33,000 in debt, correct? Yes, just about. And you make a fantastic income. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to take 24 of that $25,000 and I'm going to attack the car loan, get rid of that, and I'm going to start to attack the student loan. Okay. And that's going to take that debt down to barely anything. When do you get married? I got married last year. Oh, you're already married. Okay, I misunderstood. And then she's going to be getting out of nursing school when? May of this year.

Okay, gotcha. And you guys are renting right now? Yeah, we're renting. I'm paying about $1,200 a month. Okay. All right, so that's the plan. We're going to get rid of all of that debt before we then save up for the fully funded emergency fund, which would be three to six months of

expenses, depending on your situation. If you both got stable incomes, you can lean towards three. If there's some outliers, there's some health issues, I would lean towards six. Then and only then would I tell you to save up for a down payment on a house, which is step 3B. And at that point, that's when you'd go, all right, now we're ready to sock away some money. And guess what? You have freed up a lot of payments, haven't you, by getting rid of that car loan and that student loan.

And, by the way, your wife is probably going to be working as a nurse by then, right? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, just in a couple months. So now we're talking 200 grand and no payments. Yeah, but so after you put the 24 on there, as George told you to, Clinton, how fast? I mean, just run this through your head. Let's say you did all this today because you could. You could take the $24,000, wipe out the car loan, right?

And that's done today. And by the way, George and I think you should do that today. Today. And then you put the rest on the loan. You have about $9,000 left over. How quickly could you pay off that $9,000? Just running a quick budget in your head. How quickly?

Remember, you freed up the car loan payment. Even sooner than half a year. Exactly. Maybe four to five months. What's your car payment right now? My car payment is, well, I pay $500 a month, but I really only have to pay like three. Right. So the point is you take the $500 and you're putting it towards the $9,000.

At a minimum, you're doing $500. You can do more than that, right? Right. So you and your wife are getting after this, and man, before you know it, you're completely debt-free. Then you move forward. You've got this. This is exciting. I mean, you've been listening to the show for a couple weeks.

You have a chance to make some huge gains. Right, right. So I shouldn't be too worried about the fact that I'm spending $1,200 a month in rent right now. No. There's a sentiment out there that you're throwing away money on rent, and I hate that sentiment so much

because it causes people to jump into a house before they're financially ready, and then they call the show and go, Ken, George, my mortgage is 50% of my take-home pay, and I'm broke. Should I sell the house? And I don't want to hear that call from you, man. You're doing so great. So when it comes to the house, I want you to stick to a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage with a payment that's no more than 25% of your take-home pay. And that's absolutely doable, especially when your wife's working. So I would let the dust settle, get rid of this debt, figure out what her income is going to be,

and then base it on that. We've got a great mortgage calculator at ramseysolutions.com. Click on free tools and start playing around with that. And with a 15-year fixed rate mortgage, go, all right, we're going to try to put 20% down or more on this house. And here's what that payment would be, which means right now we can afford this much house. And six months from now, we can afford even more house. And you're a patient man. You just told me you're willing to wait. And I love that because that gives you options, and options gives you peace.

Hey, you know what? I think we should give him a copy of Total Money Makeover. Big fan of that book. This is the plan. Okay? You're new to us, but let's give you – George told you what to do, but here's the book that's going to help you and your wife get on the same page. So hang on the line. Kelly will get you a copy of Total Money Makeover.

And, boy, you guys are going to be millionaires before you can possibly imagine because of this debt-free journey. This is awesome. All right. Hang on. Kelly will pick up. We will get you taken care of, my man. Thank you for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering

a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a non-profit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years. See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality, George Camel, joined today by Ken Coleman. You know, we just took a call about housing and real estate.

Let me tell you, if you've made one of those dumb decisions with zeros on the end because you didn't do your research, yeah, I've been there. Most people make choices based on feelings and opinions, especially when buying a house. It can get real emotional. But when it comes to the real estate market, feelings aren't your friend. Facts are. So check your facts. Find out what you can actually afford

and research what's trending in home prices. And talk to a reputable real estate agent in your area. Never buy a house without the facts again. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent and work with an agent who will help you make smart decisions. That's ramseysolutions.com slash agent and work with an agent who will help you make smart decisions. That's ramseysolutions.com slash agent. Kay joins us in Columbus, Ohio. Kay, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. I'm kind of in a hard place here. My daughter-in-law wants to get on the envelope system, but she's so far in debt, and I don't know how to help her. And I want to give her hope that she can, if she will buckle down and really work at it. Okay. I don't know how to help her get started. So she's willing to. She's excited about this process. Yes. How much debt does she have? Do you know? I think about $30,000. Okay. What kind of debt is it? Card loans and credit card debt. Okay. And you're saying you

want to help her. Are you talking about just encouragement and kind of moral support? I've tried to help her before giving her money to pay bills and she can pay me back, but that's not working. Okay. I was going to say, I mean, if you were going to do this as some kind of gift to help her out, I mean, that's a very sweet thing to do, but I feel like she's wanting to do this on her own. Uh-huh. Right?

Are you getting the sentiment from her that that's the case? Yes. Okay. Well, and the best thing you can do is the first part, which is encouragement and support and cheerleading. And if you've ever heard one of our debt-free screams, we always ask, who are your biggest cheerleaders? And you could be that for her through this process. You could be accountability. You could be checking in on her. Hey, how are you doing? Can I help you with anything? What are you excited about? Tell me about your wins. And it can be isolating following this plan when no one around you is.

And if that's the case, you could be that person she can go to and say, oh my gosh, Kay, you won't believe it. I paid off another $1,000 of the car loan today. I'm feeling the progress. I see the light at the end of the tunnel. This is awesome. Yes. Would that excite you if you were that person?

Oh, yes. And you follow this plan, I assume, and you're calling into the show. Yes. Would that excite you if you were that person? Oh, yes. And you follow this plan, I assume, and you're calling into the show. Yes. So does she see you as kind of a mentor in that way of someone who's followed the plan? Are you debt-free? Yes. That's cool. How familiar with the baby steps is she since you've done it?

She is not. But she just wants to jump in and do the envelope system, but she's so far in debt, I don't know how to even help her get started. Well, we can do that. Well, wait a second. You sure do know how to help her get started. You did it. Give yourself some credit, Mom. You did it.

Okay. You did it. It's the baby steps, right? So where does the envelope system, which is the budgeting, where does that fall in the baby steps right so where where does where does the envelope system which is right the budgeting where does that fall in the baby steps mom oh um it's a trick question i don't know it's not it's not a trick question obviously we want to we want to get her started with a budget right that budget but what we first want to do is we want her to get that baby step one. We want her to get $1,000 in the bank. You know the baby steps, right? Baby step two. There we go. So have you sat down with her and actually just, even if it's on a whiteboard or on a piece of paper,

explain the baby steps and said, hey, here's how I got out of debt. Has she heard that? She has. Yeah, but just sit down and write it out for her. She just needs to see the clear path, right? Okay, the problem is, though, okay, this is my daughter-in-law. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, I can still call you mom because you're mom-in-law. That's right, yes. All right.

But, okay, the problem is she has her mom in their home. She's taking care of her mom. So what she does when her mom social security checks and things come in she just puts it in the bank with her husband's checks and then it's either feast or famine they go you know out to eat they spend money and i i feel like i'm i can't help her if she continues to do that you're right there's got to be some behavior change here. And when she says she's all in on the plan, that means some sacrifices are being made. And that may mean she needs to get plugged in

to Financial Peace University, read the Total Money Makeover. I think she needs a little bit of that information and inspiration to go, all right, I'm angry now. I'm excited about the future. And so we are happy to gift that to you to give to her.

Would that be cool? Oh, yes. Okay, so here are happy to gift that to you to give to her. Would that be cool? No, yes. Okay. So here's what I'm going to do. Kelly's going to pick up. I'm going to send you an envelope system, a physical one that she can use to actually do this stuff. And I'm going to get her connected with a Ramsey Plus membership for a year so that she can go through all the videos in Financial Peace University. And she needs to do that with her husband. Yes. And we've got to stop using mom's Social Security to go out to eat. Mm-hmm. We've got to be adults.

We've got to use our money for our goals and not live like children. And so I hope this plan helps her with the envelope system and Ramsey Plus to get her on the path, and then you're going to be her biggest cheerleader along the way. How does that sound? Oh, absolutely. Yes. Oh, that sounds wonderful. Awesome. Well, Kay, thank you so much for the question. You've got a great heart, and I'm excited. Have her call in when she's debt-free and say, hey, Kay sent me. Appreciate the plan. This stuff works. Awesome. All right. Courtney joins us in Boise. Courtney, how are you? Hello. Oh, hello. There we go. You sounded like a Muppet for a second. Okay. How are you doing? How can we help? Yeah, I'm doing okay. I am calling though to get some financial perspective. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of a divorce and it looks like I'm going to lose the house. Thank you. Yeah, I didn't see it coming at all.

Oh, no. So... How recent is this? You know, it's been seven months now. Sorry. So, yeah, I thought I'd be able to hold on to the house because our mortgage payments are really low, and it's a wonderful community for the kids and everything.

But when I have to refinance, because I was a stay-at-home mom, I won't be able to get a good rate. So why are you losing the house? Well, I just won't be able to make the payments after it's refinanced. I'm working at a local coffee shop. So, yeah. So sorry. Yeah.

Are you going to come out ahead after you sell the house? What do you stand to make, if anything? Yeah. Well, yes. So, fortunately, we do have a lot of equity in it. Yeah. Is that being split evenly? It is.

Okay. Well, I'm assuming it will be equally, yes. Do you have a lawyer? Are you guys going through mediation? Where are you at in the process? Yeah, I have a lawyer. We just ended our fourth mediation, but we weren't able to agree. At first, he was going to, in lieu of alimony, pay the mortgage until our oldest is 18, so 2026.

But then at the last minute, he changed his mind on that. So, yes, we'll be going to court in the spring, it looks like. I'm so sorry. So how can we help today? What's your biggest pain point that you're trying to figure out financially? Yeah, well, just, I mean, I'm looking at this from an emotional lens, and I think it would be helpful to look at it just more financially, like look at the numbers and see that I'm going to be okay, even though it feels like I'm not going to be okay.

Well, Courtney, hang on the line. We're going to carry this through to the next segment because I definitely don't want to shortchange you while you're going through something so, so difficult. So hang in the line. Ken and I will walk you through some next steps, give you some hope emotionally, financially, whatever you need. We are here for you and we'll pick it back up after the break. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Ken Coleman. Before the break, we were chatting with Courtney in Boise, and she is going through a divorce about seven months into the process.

She's losing the house because she can't afford it after the refinance. They're still dealing with the lawyers and who's going to get what, and she was a stay-at-home mom currently working at a coffee shop, and we are back with her. Courtney, how are you doing? Yeah, okay. So let's continue where we left off here. So let's look at your financial picture.

You told me earlier that you want to not look at this emotionally right now, but just try to focus on the facts and the finances to get on your feet. Correct? Right. Okay. So let's walk through this thing. What are you most afraid of right now financially? Well, yeah, I guess I'll make a dumb decision.

And I think I'm concerned for my kids, and I think the house represents the last stability we have, and so I think they're my greatest concern. I can tell you've got a big heart, of course, for your kids, and that's the biggest priority here. Do you know what's going to happen with all of that? Have you guys sorted that out? No. Well, he moved to another state. Oh.

So I'll have full custody. And you said that he was going to pay the mortgage instead of alimony through 2026, but now that's not happening? Right, because he wants to buy a house over there. that he was going to pay the mortgage instead of alimony through 2026, but now that's not happening? Right, because he wants to buy a house over there, so he won't be able to get, I guess, a mortgage. So that means you will be getting alimony? I should be, yeah.

Okay, but you don't know how much yet. What's the current mortgage in the house that you're in? What is it costing you a month? It's $1,500 a month. Okay. So if you have full custody, you're at the coffee shop. Have you looked into what this looks like for child care and the kids? Well, he'll be paying, well, um, he'll be paying, well, um, about $2,000 a month for child support.

Okay. Um, yeah. And then, yeah. How much are you making right now from the coffee shop? I'm making $12 an hour. Right. How many hours a week? Oh, probably $13 an hour. Right. How many hours a week? Oh, probably 13 a week.

Okay. So it's definitely not a long term because I'm going to need something that will give me health insurance and a 40-hour, you know. I just want to ask you really quick. George is going to walk you through the numbers here but i'm just curious if you are working full-time have you run some numbers on what you would need to make to be able to keep the home well um yeah i guess it would just be what i qualify for, but because I don't have much work history, my parents said they would co-sign on a loan. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How did we get into a loan? You're already in a home.

You already own a home, and the mortgage is $1,500 a month. So forget refinancing. I'm just saying, as is, whatever happens in the divorce, how much money would you have to make for you to be able to pay the mortgage on the current home that you own? Well, with the child support and alimony, I wouldn't have to be working full-time if it stayed at $1,500. Right, and that's assuming he pays, right?

Mm-hmm. But if you work full-time and you took ownership, you said, you know what, if he pays it, great, but I'm going to work full-time. And if I made, here's my point, you've got to run the exercise of, do I need to make $40,000? Do I need to make $50,000? Do I need to make $60,000? Sweetheart, and I know this is scary, but we got to talk real stuff here. You're going to have to start to go, okay, what do I have to make to keep the house? Let's at least look at that. Let's not assume we have to sell the house. Now, selling the house might take care of some debt that you two have. And I'll turn it back to you, George. But I think

we've got to go, okay, I can do this. That's your mindset. You've got to be able to say, I can do this. But in order to feel confident about that, to take the emotion out of it, because you've got some natural fear and doubt, you're going to have to get some real hard numbers here to go, okay, what would it look like to stay in the house, which would keep that stability, and you don't have a big move on top of everything else. Yeah. Now, Courtney, how many kids do you have? Three.

Three kids. Okay. So, renting somewhere and trying to find somewhere that could fit the whole gang, that could be tough. Right. Yep. Now refinancing, you're getting, he's got to get off of the loan through the refinance, right? So do you have to refinance as part of the divorce process? That's the impression I have, yeah. Okay. And then you're saying once you refinance, they're not going to let you just remain on the loan by yourself because you don't have the work history the income history correct yep that's what i'm hearing is that true yes part of the divorce process the refinance has

to happen in order to get someone off of the loan is that right and so that's what i was feeling with this situation okay so there you go all right so still coming out of the house all right so what i'm wondering is let's say worst case you sell the house and let's say you get half of it. What would that look like? How much money would that be? Probably $300,000. That's your half, what you would get? Yeah. Wow. Okay. Well, that's, I mean, that's a good number.

That's very helpful with a situation like this to have a pile of cash. It is, yeah. I know. It was a dream house. I know. That's what I'm feeling is you said this is the last, you know, represents the stability, but it feels like it represents what once was, and now we've got to paint a picture of future Courtney, and she is a rock star, single mom with three kids who is amazing, and that feels like it's a part of the process. Is that kind of what it is? It's more of an emotional thing than it is the actual house itself? Well, yeah, probably, yes. But you're going to be able to have another amazing home one day

that's going to be yours. Okay. I know it's so hard right now because you're in the middle of this and you're letting go and saying goodbye to this past life and stepping into this new one, but I want you to start dreaming as you grieve through this process about what life looks like for Courtney now. And do you have any debt?

No, just the house. Well, before he left, he bought a new truck. But that's not your debt. Well, I think it's because it's a, what's it called, a community property state. It's all equal. So all the debts are split amongst you? That's what I'm thinking. I would talk to your lawyer about this because I don't like the idea of you having to pay his truck loan.

Right. I don't either. So let's make sure that's not part of it. But let's just say you're debt-free. Do you have any savings on your own? Have you guys already split all the accounts and everything? No, it's still together. Oh, boy. Yeah, we have a few thousand in savings.

I would separate these accounts. How far are you into the process as far as finalizing the divorce? We have a court date in April. Okay. Well, I'd work closely with your lawyer, and one thing I want to do before we've got to head to a break is connect you with one of our Ramsey financial coaches who can walk with you at a deeper level,

because it's hard to do in a seven-minute radio call, and walk with you along this journey, because we care about you, we are rooting for you, and we want to see you win financially and figure out what this next chapter is for you. And so they'll sit down with you one-on-one. You can do it virtually if that makes you more comfortable, but I'll have Kelly pick up

and we'll get you a financial coaching session on the books, and they will help you walk through this very, very messy process. And I've been through it myself, Courtney, and this is obviously way more difficult with all the kids involved and the unknowns. You're just stepping into a lot of new stuff right now. But it's going to get better, and I can't wait for you to call back and let us know your progress and say, hey, I've got my emergency fund in place. I've got a new house that I love. Child care has been taken care of. I've got a career that I love.

And for that side, I want you to call into Ken's show. When you're ready to talk about what that looks like for you, he would be more than happy to talk you through it. I appreciate the call. We love you, Courtney. We are wishing you the best through this very, very difficult process. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Ken Coleman.

We're taking your calls, so give us one. I'm playing air piano right Show. I'm George Campbell, joined today by Ken Coleman. And we're taking your calls. By the way, I'm playing air piano right now. I just love that. That's the way I like it from Ken. Feels very relaxing. Silent piano from Ken Coleman. There it is. It's perfect.

Love the bump. Well, we're taking your calls, folks. 888-825-5225 is the number to call. And Tanner has decided to do it. He made it through. He's in Phoenix, Arizona. Tanner, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, guys.

How are you guys doing? Doing great. How can Ken and I help? Good, good. I had a career question. So I have been in the medical marijuana industry for about 11 years in a row now as upper management. I no longer want to be in the career. I want to do something different.

You know, I took your advice. I took a couple of your guys' courses online. I love them. The proximity principle. I love it. I also downloaded your guys' resume template. For the last two months, I've been sending out some resumes and unfortunately I have not even received a single phone call. I was just wondering if you guys can give me any advice as to breaking the stigma of the marijuana industry and how do I get into a different management role? Okay, well, we've got two different questions there. I'm not sure I'm an expert on breaking the stigma of medical marijuana. I mean, honestly, I don't know.

Because largely, I'm not sure I know what the stigma is. I mean, it's not like some new concept all of a sudden, you know what I mean? But I'll come back to that one. I'm going to table that one for now and come back to that. Let's talk about the second part of the question, which is how do I break through and start to get some job interviews? I would stop just submitting resumes. And you may not have told me everything, but based on what you said, I'm assuming you're just sending out resumes cold, correct? Yes. Yeah, well, that's like playing the lottery, okay, especially in today's world so even small businesses tanner are using you know uh artificial intelligent type software so that resume submissions and they've got keywords

so they're looking for based on the job description that they've posted and your resume forget the cannabis experience that you have in the medical marijuana side of things. They're looking for keywords that relate to the job description. It's like really specific. And if you enter in that artificial intelligence and the software that people are writing, really great and qualified candidates sometimes will get kicked out just because your resume doesn't have enough of the keywords related to their job description.

Does that make sense? I want to make sure I don't talk too much technical, but do you understand what I'm saying? Yes, yes, I do. So the reality is you and I don't have any evidence as of right now that somebody's looking at your resume and seeing that you've been in medical marijuana for 11 years and they're going, oh, we're not calling that guy back. We don't really have any evidence of that, do we?

No. Okay, then. So you're limiting yourself by saying well that's why no that may not be why at all but let's also recognize that some people may have some sort of issue with it and a stigma i mean that happens so how do we remove both situations we're not getting looked at because we're submitting cold resumes and we have a resume that's got a lot of experience on it that may carry a stigma with it. Here's how we eliminate both of those two factors being

limiting. We are focusing on relationships, connections, connections, connections. And you have got to submit a resume. You're still going to have to submit it online just like you have been before but only after you've got somebody who is vouching for you who is submitting your resume personally to somebody that they know this is how you get through the uh what i would call the online pile right in the old days you took in a physical resume and it may sit on the hiring manager's desk now everything is digital but to get noticed you're going to have to have that personal connection does that make sense yes it does so when i you talked about the proximity principle which is a book i wrote a couple years ago also a bestseller and and you read that book yes yes well i hate to be so simplistic but you got to go back in there and go, okay, wait a second.

What is it that I want to do? Fill in the blank. What is it that you're looking for? You've applied. What kind of work are you looking for? Okay, so I do know what I'm looking for. So it is sending my resumes cold, but in my industry, the thing that I really, the task I really love doing is supply chain management. And that's extremely crucial to make sure we have all the supplies and everything we need in our facilities.

So after reading your book, that's really the only thing that drove me in our industry. So I would like to break away from the cannabis industry and go to a supply chain or chain management position. So are you saying in the Phoenix, Arizona, is that the big circle? We kind of draw a big circle on the map. In the greater Phoenix area, that's where we want to look? Yes. Okay, great. And there's plenty out there. Of course there are.

I've been looking on Indeed and stuff like that. You see plenty of ads out there asking for that style of career. All right, so without saying any company names out loud, you can think of the companies you've applied to, plus there's some other companies that you're probably interested in as well. Correct? You got them in your mind? Yes. All right, so you'd have to think about all the people you know.

I mean, you've been living in Phoenix how long? 23 years now. All right, just for fun exercise, you ready? Yes. Don't overthink this. Give me ballpark numbers. How many people between close personal relationships, whether it be family, friends, former coworkers, close people, then acquaintances, people that you know but you don't do in life with them,

but if you saw them on the street, you said hi, they say hi to you, so they're an acquaintance, and then even some social media connections. In the Phoenix area, how many people do you say that you know? Oh, 3,000 or 4,000 people. 3,000 or 4,000 people. All right. How many people do you think each one of those people know? Well, probably 2,000 at least as well.

Yeah. I'm not good at math, George. That's a lot of people. Well, it gets exponentially insane because those 2,000 people know another 2,000 at least as well. Yeah, I'm not good at math, George. That's a lot of people. Well, it gets exponentially insane because those 2,000 people know another 2,000. Now, Tanner, I kind of backed you into this because I want you to understand that you know plenty of people. You know everybody you need to know to get the job. You know everybody you need to know to make a connection to somebody in these companies. So the companies you've applied to that you didn't get any response at all, I want you to go back to the drawing board plus all the new options. And I want you to start

just playing this game out. And I want you to talk to everybody that you know. Get on social media and do it. Email everybody that you know on LinkedIn with a real email address, not the LinkedIn email address. And say, hey, I'm looking to get connected over at this company, this company, this company, and this company. Do you know somebody over there? How well do you know them? Would you be willing to introduce me to them for a phone call, a Zoom, or a coffee? Tanner, are you starting to track with where I'm going? Yep, yep.

And then here's what happens. We find the right connection, and we get a really strong recommendation before we ever submit a resume, maybe even a real conversation with the hiring manager. And they go, okay, great. And they know something great about you. They have a mutual connection where there's some credibility. That's how you're going to go about getting the gig. And it doesn't really matter, I don't think, that you've been in medical marijuana. You want to show your 11 years of experience and how that supply chain management, logistics,

and everything you did there makes you a great candidate. This is the hottest job market we've ever seen. And if nothing else, I want you to go to ZipRecruiter.com slash Ken today and upload your resume and let them go to work for you as well. George? Some great advice there, Ken. No, I just wanted to add for Tanner that the way I got my job here as an intern in Temp started with a direct message on twitter it did not start with my resume who was that in a pile that was to one of our personalities yeah and i started working with them on social media and i had a plan and i was excited and i was persistent but not aggressive and annoying and that turned into a phone call with hr which turned into another personality

set that call up yes and so that's what did the credibility of that relationship mean to the HR people? Why would they even do a call with you? I have no idea. Yes, you do. It was a personal connection. Because of the connection of that personality who said, hey, George is A, not a nut. George is sharp. I like George.

I think it's worth a phone call. Yes. That changed everything. And that was a Twitter DM. That was free, by the way. Yeah. And so, Tanner, you've got to get more creative. And there's a lot of ways to do this, but just sitting in the digital quagmire of a resume pile, not going to cut it.

Use those connections that you have. Get creative. Show them that you're really hungry to do this kind of work. I'm slow clapping right here, George, because you just said digital quagmire. You like that? I like it because it's actually true. This is what the new world is like. When you submit a resume cold without a relationship, you are essentially

putting yourself in the... Digital Quagmire. Yes. You know, to impress Ken Coleman with a word, that's a big day, because you've got a lot of $10 words. It's amazing. Quagmire. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to my pal, Ken Coleman, all of you listening out there, America,

and the team in the booth. James Childs, our producer. Kelly Daniel, our phone screener and associate producer. Ben Hill, running the board. We appreciate you guys so much. We'll be back with you before you know it. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's

Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.