The Ramsey Show - App - Help Me See the Light at the End of the Tunnel (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 1, 2022

Relationships, Career, Saving, Debt As heard on this episode: Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/3rZTUAx Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2Q64HME Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/3sXwUn5 Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/3utmVXi Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3fHhbVE

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you live your best life by being healthy relationally, successful professionally, and peaceful financially. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Delaney. We're here for you this hour taking your questions. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Randall is going to start us off this hour in Cincinnati, Ohio, the home of the Super Bowl-bound Bengals.

Oh, my goodness, taking the NFL by storm. Randall, how can we help? Thanks for starting that way, guys. Who day, by the way. There it is. I knew we had a shot at the who day, and so you just delivered beautifully, sir. For sure, for sure. So I inherited a home from my mother who passed away in December.

For the full year prior to her passing, she had dementia. And both of my brothers are living in that home. They are not receiving that inheritance via her will. One of them had taken advantage of her in the last six months and completely depleted $35,000 out of her bank account. Uh, and so I'm stuck, uh, with this house and just not sure what to do. Not sure what direction to go with, uh, with the brother who has stolen. Uh, and so I'm just kind of, kind of overwhelmed with it. And I'd like to get your guys' advice. Quick point of clarification, John. So Randall, do I understand that you inherited the house in the will you personally yes okay and the two brothers are living in it correct okay yeah and so first i

want to say sorry about your mother's loss man how'd she pass away thank you uh her heart stopped um i mean there were complications from the dementia she was getting pretty bad off but um you know with various medications and so on. And, and she just, her heart eventually just gave up. Okay. So what's your relationship like with your brothers? And it's an important context for how I'm going to suggest you move forward here. Um, my oldest brother who is, um, not the guilty party. the guilty party, I have a great relationship with him. I talk with him pretty frequently. My middle brother, it's very strained at the moment.

Okay. As it should be, because he stole $35,000 from your mother, his mom, right? And I'll go one step further. Were both of these brothers living with her during this time? Yes. Yeah, I would suggest older brothers got some, is complicit in this too. Either through not stepping up or not saying, hey, no chance, you know what I mean, not being involved in this deal. Yeah.

It was mainly my middle brother who was doing most of her caretaking. He was without work. My older brother was working and contributing as much as he could. But for the most part, it was my middle brother who was doing that. And I almost think that he feels like he was owed that money because he was the one doing all the medical stuff and taking her to appointments and doing all that. Yeah, and you come to that conclusion when all the kids sit down and say, here's how we're going to handle the next six months of care, and then at month four and a half or five, you sit down and have that meeting again and say, how's everybody doing? And he just decided he was going to start billing his mother for care.

He can be unemployed, living rent-free, billing mom by stealing from her. That's the way addicts, that's the way thieves justify their behavior. There's a reason why your mom left you this house and didn't split it up amongst the boys. Is that right? Yeah. You've

heard me say this before. I'll say it again. It's not by your hand, but in your lap. You didn't cause this problem. You're a person of integrity and character, and that's why your mom trusted you with her home. And at this point, you have to decide, do I want to be the landlord of a thief and somebody who's not paying attention to mom,

or are you going to sell the house, tell them, hey, you guys got 30 days. I'm evicting you. I'm selling this house, and I'm moving on with my life. Even if you want to split up and give them some of the money, if you think that's the right thing to do. But I'm going to wash my hands of the house, tell them, hey, you guys got 30 days, I'm evicting you, I'm selling this house, and I'm moving on with my life. Even if you want to split up and give them some of the money, if you think that's the right thing to do. But I'm going to wash my hands of this house, and we're moving on with it. But I think that's your only option right now.

Yeah, I was coming to that conclusion. My concern was, what do I do with my brother? Do I give him money? He's 51, and my oldest brother is 54. It's time for you to stop taking care of him. He's a big boy. Why would you give him money? Instead of asking us if you should, why would you?

It's the heart issue. I just feel so bad that he would be going out on the street, and I feel like I'm forced to kick him on the street. He robbed your mom. Is there anything in the will, any kind of directive or suggestion from your mom that when she

decided for you to take care of the estate, specifically the house, that you were supposed to sell it and split the profits? Is there any direction at all? No, it was just for the goods within the home that we were supposed to split. The house was specifically left to me. So split the goods.

Yeah, split them. Split the goods. Say, here's what the will said, and this is what we're doing. We're going to sell this, and here's your proceed. If you want to give him your cut just because you feel bad, I mean, this is more my colleague's take, but I'm just going to common sense this. This isn't the counselor approach, but it's like you don't owe this 51-year-old brother anything other than what the will specifically lays out as it relates to the goods inside the house. Outside of that, this is up to your discretion,

and you have to decide, am I going to base my relationship with my brother going forward on me giving him more money that he doesn't actually deserve or have any right to after he's already stolen money? I don't think you should lose any sleep over this at all. Really, the right thing, and I say right not in a moral, ethical thing, but the right from a justice perspective, as you call the police, and you say that this man stole $35,000 from my mother over the course of six months, and I'd like it investigated. That's what justice would say. You sitting down and saying, your free ride at 51 is over, and it's time for you to get a job and to get your own place. And I guess I get the will says

this. And I also get being a brother saying, how much is this house worth? About $140,000. I can imagine you holding $140,000 and watching your brothers move out. And that would be hard. And you'd think, well, they deserve some of that. Well, technically, his cut, he ought to take the 35 000 out of his cut oh i like that i'm giving you each 36

35 000 and five dollars and you can give your brother one brother a five dollar bill and the other brother 35 grand and high five him and tell him send him on their way but there is a reason here while your mother left you this money these problems don't come out of a vacuum someone just doesn't decide to take advantage of their dying mother. Has he been like this for a while? Really, it's just developed over the last six months, to be honest with you, that I know of from bank records. No, no, no.

I'm talking about just a little bit squirrely, a little bit out of work, a little bit, hey, Mom, I need to move back in. A lot of 51 living with mom yeah i mean he's had various various issues um he had a surgery he broke his ankle and that eventually led to more problems uh so he's had some medical issues okay within the last 10 years is why he's went back with her. Yeah, you're in the middle. The situation got dropped in your lap, brother.

And I think the right thing to do is to tell him, hey, guys, it's time for y'all to find a new place. I'm selling this house. You can come up with the split if you think that's necessary. I don't think it is, especially to the brother who stole from your mom. But you've got to sleep well at night. So sorry for your loss, Randall. This is The Ramsey Show.

People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a non-profit organization that helps members We'll be right back. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, John Deloney. We're here for you this hour, 888-825-5225. One of the most important types of insurance you can have is car insurance or motorcycle insurance, if that's your thing. Most Americans don't have enough car insurance, though, and you might be one of them. If you get into an accident and you don't have enough insurance, you're going to have to pay for your own car repairs and medical bills plus the other driver's car repairs and their medical bills and their

passenger's medical bills. That can cost you thousands of dollars or even worse, you could get sued. So you've got to have the right car insurance. That's why we created a network of endorsed local providers or ELPs. That means that these licensed independent insurance agents do things the Ramsey way and they'll shop around to get the best value on the coverage you actually need and they'll teach you how to understand what you're actually getting so you are confident that you are covered. If you're ready to work with an insurance agent who's actually in your corner,

visit ramseysolutions.com slash auto to connect with a Ramsey-trusted ELP. That website is ramsaysolutions.com slash auto. All right, Regina is up next in Las Vegas, Nevada. Regina, how can we help? Hi, Ken. Hi, Dr. D. Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

I'm going to get right at it. I'm currently on baby step two. I've been working on the debt snowball for about five years. And as of this Friday, I was thrown a curveball. I was served with paperwork from an attorney that represented me in 2020. And basically, he's basically calling my note due. I owe him $ grand. So in terms of my debt snowball, I've, I've been up for three days trying to rework it and trying to put priority in mind. Um, my concern is, and my dilemma is part of my debt snowball was the initial payment. I made him, I mean, untapped out. So how do I rework this debt snowball so I initial payment I made him. I mean, I'm tapped out.

So how do I rework this debt snowball so I can see a light at the end of the tunnel? How much were you paying him each month? Well, I initially took out a 401k loan because I had to. I had no choices. It was based on my daughter and child support. So I had to have attorney. I had to have representation. So that was $6,000. I'm still paying that back over a monthly period at a payroll deduction basis.

And then I have a car loan and a small loan of $1,000. And I just don't know which way to turn as far as prioritizing because I've been doing it different ways, and I still can't see the light. So you've been paying him monthly. It's coming out of your payroll. I mean, it's coming out of your check. I actually – No, that's for 401. Yeah.

I'm confused. Did you have an agreement in writing with him that you would pay him out over a certain period of time? I actually had an agreement to pay him a specific amount, paid him that specific amount. He said he would no longer represent me after a certain amount of time because of COVID. It extended, extended, extended, extended, extended. So because I signed the initial paperwork and everything COVID-wise extended, yes, I owe him this amount of money.

Okay. So have you called him? Have you all sat down and talked? Or does he think – usually you get a demand letter, it's because you're delinquent in payments. Has he been trying to connect with you and you're avoiding him? Why is he sending you, why did he, this is his first option? I think it's twofold.

One, because no attorney's going to take me on to represent against another attorney. And two, because he wants his money now. I think it's just, you know, I'm sure he's been, you know, shafted by others. I just don't have it. He knows very well I don't have it. I've contacted him twice in the course of six months and said, listen, we have this agreement. This is what I had.

I told you. You told me. I just, I'm stuck. And I don't know how to look at this outside of my own head. So I was just hoping maybe I could get a fresh perspective of, do I rework that snowball and sell my car? Because the car is the biggest question mark in my mind. Well, how are you going to get to and from work, get to the grocery store?

Uber or Lyft. I work from home. Okay. Does your car get you out of your debt with this attorney? No, it'll get me about if he wants 16 grand and he can settle on that and not cause me any more grief. I have one commission check coming in. It'll probably knock out half of it. Hold on. So let's back up for a second. Your assumption that attorneys don't want to sue other attorneys is 100% false. I know several attorneys that love taking on crooked attorneys. They hate that people are out there poisoning the profession, and they're happy to.

I'm not saying he's poisoning, but I'm just saying, honestly, I don't feel he did an equitable job in what he did to me. Okay. All things being equal, I do owe him. I'm not trying to say differently. So let's take the emotion out of this then. You have a $16,000 debt that just got called. Yep. Right?

Are you able to go get a loan for this money and pay him? No, that's where I'm having the difficulty. I'm tapped. Like I said, I took the original 401K loan to give to him. So now we're talking, you know, I have no other resources. I'm a single mom. I work three jobs. I don't have any more resources, and I totally don't have any more time.

I'm fried. So, Regina, he's trying to scare you. Let's forget about him for a moment because he actually knows you don't have it. So if we could, let's just – how many lines do we have in the debt snowball? So we've got $16,000 to the lawyer. What else do you have in your snowball? $8,000 for the car and a $1,200 small, just a small loan that I took out to cover expenses because I knew some other stuff was coming.

Okay. And then what's on the 401k? I mean, I know that's coming out, but I still want to know what that loan amount is. It's currently at $5,000, just that $5,000. All right. So we had $16,000 of the loan, your $8,000 on the car, $5,000 401k loan, $1,200 in another loan. Is that it?

Correct. Okay. And you're telling me with your three jobs, you're absolutely maxed out. You're paying everything you can right now. Are you putting money towards the $1,200 on the debt snowball? You've been working for five years. That tells me you're not making any progress. Well, the problem is I have to hire an attorney every two years.

My ex-husband takes me back to court for more child support. And this latest 2020 episode increased my child support by 25%. So I'm literally reworking the budgets and the baby steps every single year. All right, so I'm trying to help you practically very quickly here. So the car is worth how much? I know you owe eight. What's the car worth? I think I can get eight for it.? I think I can get eight for it.

I do think I can get eight for it. So that would wipe it out totally. Correct. So that's a massive chunk right there. I mean, here's what we teach. We teach working the debt snowball. You're in a situation where you've got a lot of variables coming at you, and I think as far as this lawyer goes uh i'm trying to channel dave

right now and i think you get tough with this guy and go hey dude yeah so let me just be honest with you you know i ain't got it we can look at it you come after me all you want you're not going to get a dime until i can get healthy and i can get set and i'm going to take care of this um i can work a payment plan and give him a little bit he can get a little bit of something and you can put that in the snowball um on based on a payment plan but that's that's all he can get you can't let his bullying and fear tactics make you make another poor decision that's right so i'm sending him a certified letter that i'd make a copy of and let him know here's you know that i can't do this here's our original agreement. Here's how it got kicked.

It got expanded through COVID. Here's my financial situation, which you know, by the way, I do not have $16,000. I've already loaned against my 401k. But I will commit to paying you this much over the next few months and we will go from there.

And that's the best you can do. If he wants to sue you in court, cool. They're going to put a judgment against you and you're going to be in the same spot. You're going to have a $16,000 debt, except it'll be plus court cost or whatever. Right. And here's the other thing. I'm going to hook you up with a free session with a financial coach, one of our coaches. Okay. So I want you to hang on the line and someone's going to walk through this specifically with you. But I want you to keep in mind what Ken just said. If you are out of options, I want you to rest in that. And I know that sounds bonkers, but there's nothing else.

Looking at these same numbers for three nights in a row doesn't make new numbers. Right? It doesn't make a new – there's not a magic solution that you just – it's not a Rubik's Cube. You just got to turn it the right way. You got to say you got a magic solution that you just, it's not a Rubik's Cube, you just gotta turn it the right way. You gotta say, you got a bully coming after you for your money, and let's be fair to him, you owe him this money, and now

we gotta figure out a plan to get him paid back. And so that means you're gonna have to, he won't talk to you on the phone like a grown-up, send him a letter and make sure that he signs for it. I'm gonna say this, I think you need a win, Regina. I'd sell the car. If you can truly get around and do what you gotta do via Uber, I'd do it. I'd sell the car. If you can truly get around and do what you've got to do via Uber, I'd do it. I'd sell the car.

Now we've got a $1,200 loan. We can attack that. Then we'll figure out the payment plan to the lawyer. Get some victories. Our coach will help you. This is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You are joining the conversation about your life here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney.

What a great song, by the way. I just watched a thing on him yesterday. Did you? Yeah. One of the greatest. Learning to fly, but I ain't got wings. Oh, good stuff. Tom Petty, the great one.

Hey, it is resolution season still. And if you're like most people, you make resolutions on New Year's Day and then you give up by Valentine's Day. Why? Because you're trying to figure it out on your own. So if you decided to finally take control of your money this year, don't do it alone. Get the support and accountability you need by joining a Financial Peace University class. You'll go through our proven money plan with other people who help you stay motivated. Right now, there are hundreds of FPU classes getting started,

both in person and online. So forget the lame resolutions. Make 2022 the year you take control of your money and don't do it alone. Find an FPU class and get started for free at RamseySolutions.com. Slash FPU. That's RamseySolutions.com. Slash FPU. That's RamseySolutions.com slash FPU. Let's go to Dat, who joins us in Los Angeles, California.

How can we help? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. So currently I just took a job pay cut. I changed positions, and part of what we were hoping would happen didn't happen fully. And so my rent's due today. I'm about $800 short.

I haven't talked to my landlord yet, but I'm looking for places to rent that's cheaper due to my pay cut. And they're like 40, 50, 60 minutes away from where I work currently. And that's something I want to try to avoid, but I think I might have to do that. But is it worth that, or should I sell my car that's paid off for? Why'd you have to take a pay cut? Well, I was a driver for my boss,

and I just didn't want to just do the 16-hour days anymore, 18-hour days, you know. It was salary, so just until he was done. Sometimes I've gone 18 hours three days in a row. It was salary, so just until he was done. Sometimes I've gone 18 hours three days in a row. It was just too much for me. So I went to sales for him. Okay, and did they promise you more money on the sales side, and it didn't come to fruition?

Well, he worked for another company, and he was going to put me on the sales team on that company as well, so I would gain two salaries and two commissions to equal back up to what i was being paid and when he was at the other company he was stepping down to do something else and push me to sales they kind of just said no to everything and just kicked him out so that's where i'm stuck with that it was kind of unfortunate he's helping me out right now he's helping me set up a dropshipping company, you know, funding me with some of that stuff. Okay. To get me back to my original pay, but...

Which is how much? You know, it's kind of rough. $1,400 a week. $1,400? $1,400 a week, yeah. Okay. And how short are you right now of that? Right now, I'm only getting $500 a week just because the other company is supposed to cover the rest of it.

All right, so first of all, I'm really sorry about what happened. I've got to tell you, that thing sounds so screwy. I can't even process it. I don't like it at all. And so my advice is we want to quickly get out of this guy's web. I appreciate what you're saying that he's trying to help you. All that's probably true. You're $900 short of what you were making weekly in the hottest job market we've ever seen in America.

And you're in a huge city. So trying to take all this on, John, at once, no, I would not sell the car that it's paid for because I think you can sit down with your landlord and I'd skip all the crazy gymnastics we heard and go, look, I was promised this. It didn't happen. I'm working on this. I'm picking up a part-time job or two. I'm going to be able to make up the rent pretty darn quickly. You're only 900 short per week. This is hourly work. You can go bust it and get yourself stable from the rent standpoint and then figure out, okay, what's my next move? What's my long-term move?

This is what I want you focused on. I'm in the industry I want to be in. I know, but you can't eat. Yeah, dude. You're broke. You can't eat. So should I take it part-time with this one guy? No, dude, get away from this guy.

It's wacky. Get away from him. What industry are you in that you want to be in? Driving or sales? I'm in cannabis. Cannabis. So you're in a cannabis sales job right now? Yeah.

Okay, so go find a more stable situation in cannabis. Right now, you presented with an emergency, my friend. And your emergency is you rents due, and you just took a huge cut. But the difference is you could go to a reasonable landlord and go, here's what happened. I'm busting it. I'm going to get it to you. And here's the other thing. When you first got a hint that you weren't going to get this other gig, and it wasn't going to pan out. The fact that you weren't at Sonic's door and then at Uber's door that night,

it feels like you want everything to just happen for you, and it's just not the way it works, brother. You got tired grinding a job out, and so you quit before you had it. You transitioned jobs because you were exhausted. I get that, but you didn't have another boat to jump on. You just jumped off the dock into the water. Well, my fiancée, she thought she was getting her first paycheck last week, which would have made us cover rent easily.

But she's not getting paid for fire. So in theory, we can survive it out. I just don't know. Well, but here's the deal. And I get it, brother. And we're trying to help you short- and long term okay so let me encourage you you're waiting on things to happen and you need to make some go make it happen yes so so i listen no i don't want you to sell your car i think that would be disastrous yes and no it doesn't make

sense to move to an apartment that's cheaper 50 miles away from where you want to work because in la that might as well be in Oregon. So let's just go, okay, so hey, let me go get a couple of side gigs or one good side gig, get my income back up to where it was, find a more permanent opportunity in the field I want to be in. You've got that working for you, but don't put that pressure on your fiance to help with your rent. Don't do all this stuff. Go make some money right now. Right now, go make some money. Get current with the landlord. Take all that stress off of yourself.

Work those side gigs or whatever you got to do, keeping that $1,400 a week minimum coming in, and then we make the permanent move. Do you understand what I'm saying? That's the progress that we want you to go through because it's going to make life so much easier. Is this guy the only cannabis dealer in Los Angeles? Legal?

No. I've just been with him for a good amount of time. He's really helped me out and taught me a lot of things. Which is great. I have a lot more to learn. Which is great. And be thankful to him. But right now, this guy's not a dependable meal ticket, true or false?

Or should I talk to him about it? Because he says I need his help with stuff. I don't have anything to talk to him. I just don't want to. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a second. Dad, why do you need his help? Him handing you more money when you can go make your own money?

You don't need this dude to bail you out. You need a plan. You need a future. You need to take care of the present. Do you understand what we're saying? No, don't go to this guy and ask him for more help. He's not take care of the present. Do you understand what we're saying? No, don't go to this guy and ask him for more help. He's not a dependable meal ticket. Is that true

or is that false? That's true. As Rage once said, we're trying to help you take your power back. Stop leaning on somebody else. Time to go get it, my brother. Also, I still feel like I still need to find a different place to move

because my rent's pretty high great okay and find another place yeah but anytime you are scrambling and desperate to find a place to live that's when you make goofy decisions so get through this month and then make a plan yeah you're focusing on the next place to rent when we got to pay what we already owe let's take care of it now then we start thinking about the next place to rent when we've got to pay what we already owe. Let's take care of it now, then we start thinking about the next. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, of course. Because, listen, man, we want you to be making decisions in the best headspace possible and scrambling all the time

and asking for help and all this kind of stuff as opposed to going, and I like what John said, I mean, take the power back or whatever you said. That was pretty fantastic. I said it wrong, I'm sure. No, I didn't come up with it. Who is that? It's from a great rock band but i i it's easy to feel like you are stuck in a trap and then a boss says this the boss gonna help you out here and then help

with this man it's time for you to stand up and say all right i'm gonna go grind it out cut the umbilical cord yeah i'm thinking and it's not forever it's for four months it's for five months and are you gonna be taught you thought you were tired driving 16 hours a day? You are going to be unable to move your body. You'll be so tired. And that's what you got to do right now. And I know that's not cool and it's not the cultural ethos right now, but that's where you're at. Go grind it out, man.

And you're living in one of the most expensive places on planet Earth right now trying to get into this business. Maybe look at if it's time to leave California or Los Angeles and find a cheaper place to live and still be in the business you want to be in fascinating conversations i didn't think that i would ever have 10 years ago my health things have changed i'm in the cannabis industry oh fabulous oh i thought you just said i thought you said you're in the cannabis industry. Oh, no, no. That's a joke Ken would make. Oh, no. Even I'm not that cheesy. All right, folks.

Don't move. More of the Ramsey Show coming up next. helping you win in your life win with your money win with your relationships win at work this is the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. We're here for you this hour. 888-825-5225 is the toll-free number. 888-825-5225. Portland, Oregon is where we go next. Liz is there.

Liz, how can we help? Hi, thank you for taking my call. I think I'd describe this as possibly a house divided, but you tell me. Our ongoing conversation is do we pay off or not pay off the house or do we sell or not sell? I'm open to both. I would love to pay off our home. We currently have a mortgage left of 305, 305,000. And all of our debt has been paid.

We have nothing but the house left. In the bank, we have right around $300, so I would love to just see that go to zero. My husband panicked when I say it. He was like, you mean you want us to start at zero? Yes, because I think we can build that back up. So I don't know where to go with that ongoing conversation, but I know there's days where it can be a little bit more heated than others,

to say the least, But at the same time, I would love to get an opinion so I can use that in my ammunition at dinner. Oh, my gosh. Before we get to ammunition, this is a relationship question. I'll let the good doctor weigh in. But I do want to ask, you follow the baby steps, yes? Of course. Okay. So when you say we've got 300 in the bank is that above and beyond your emergency fund of three to six months baby step three it is okay so you wouldn't truly be going to zero the 300 000 you've got in the bank so so that's all i wanted to know because

when i heard go to zero i'm kind of with the husband like hey we worked hard on baby step three to get that three to six months emergency fund which which if you're new to the program, that's what we teach. Baby step one is put $1,000 in the bank for emergencies. Then baby step two is to take all the debts, pay them off, smallest to largest, give them a minimum. Then once all the debt is paid off, baby step three is the three to six months of living expenses, which Liz and her husband have.

So I needed to get clarity on what zeroing out $300,000 meant. Liz, whenever I'm talking to somebody, I always want to keep this one line in my head. Behavior is a language. So your husband has decided that $300,000 in cash, just sitting there in the bank, and in this current economy, it's actually losing value, is giving him something. So by him hoarding $300,000 in cash to have it at any moment, what is he trying to tell us?

What's he telling you? Not with his words, but with his actions. That's a good question. Take a guess. Is he scared? Is he stuck? I actions. That's a good question. Take a guess. Is he scared? Is he stuck? I think it's just a little rewind only because when we purchased our current home, it was at the peak of 2006 and the economy crashed in 2008. And we instantly lost $200,000 in equity overnight.

That's it. As I know so many others did. Yes. But I think what happened now come full, you know, gosh, it's been a while. We decided to hold on to the house. We got ourselves into it. There was no way we were going to just let go of the home and walk away. So we decided to stick to it, keep paying on it. And now, I mean, the house is worth upwards of 900,000. So let's just, let's just look at this through a trauma lens. A bear showed up at his cave back in 2006 or 2007 or 2008.

And that bear took $200,000 or $300,000 out of his soul, out of his equity. And despite what the market's doing and what everyone's predicting and whatever, his body sees that bear again.

His body remembers the story and the idea, him pacing the house while y'all were asleep wondering what's the financial future of my family is this it have i dug a hole that i could never get us out of and of course it's a teamwork thing i'm just i've been him where i'm i take all the blame and grief on myself and i'm the one who's not sleeping he remembers this story and so this three hundred thousand dollars is providing him it's like a warm blanket for him on myself and I'm the one who's not sleeping. He remembers this story. And so this $300,000 is providing him, it's like a warm blanket for him right now. And so I get that and, so it's both and.

I got to identify these feelings. I got to own reality. This is the truth. It could all come down again and it's probably not going to. And if you have no house payment, it doesn't matter what the evaluation of the house is until you sell it right so this is the question i've got liz for you and john here i'm curious to know john liz how are you talking about your desire to pay this off is it are you casting a vision like john alluded to um where you're kind of going hey if we pay it off this is what's going to happen hey, if we pay it off, this is what's going to happen. This is what's going to happen.

And this is what's going to happen. It's going to allow us to do this. Or are you just going, dang, I want to get rid of this thing. And we got the money. I'm just curious. I don't want to project. How are you presenting your side? Because you said this is an argument.

Well, and it can be at times. We've been married 17 years. We have a strong strong relationship so it will never be sure of course anything to separate but at the same time liz why do you hate your husband i'm just kidding i'm joking so how are you at work and can't hear this how are you i think to me i tell i i tell him the emotional aspect for me is knowing that we don't have to worry about that mortgage any longer. So that's, yeah, there's my money. And what about, what's his take on it?

Is he able to speak, is he able to be vulnerable back and say, here's what I'm scared of? Of course. And he understands that. He just said, we worked so hard to get here. And I would love to see us just hold on, especially with inflation and everything else going on. But at the same time, his whole thing is we always bought things at the peak and lost. And why would we do that again? Like in the sense of why would we pay off the mortgage currently instead of hold on to what we have, hoping another bubble occurs at some point and possibly invest in

some real estate. And so now you're talking, so he wants to hold $300,000 in cash just in case something explodes and he can buy the neighbor's house for pennies on the dollar. Is that what he's thinking? Right, right. That move made Dave very, very wealthy. It's a good move, but Dave had no payments. And so that whole argument falls apart if you still owe somebody money. What's your combined income he's better than mine so our combined together is right around 400 000 oh goodness gracious lead with that liz what did you do so i did i did well or i didn't hear i didn't hear 400 dude well we didn't ask so here's what I would do. Split the difference.

Here's another thing. You've backed each other into a corner where it's your way or my way. What if you paid $200,000 on this house today, and you kept $100,000 on top of your emergency fund, and you committed to him the next six months is devoted to getting another $200,000 back? And then we're going to pay this house off, and we're going to have $200,000 above our emergency fund, or $250,000, and we're going to have no house payment. Then everybody wins.

But you guys have backed each other into a corner where it's you versus me, and no relationship works when it's you versus me. Let's create a third way. John, I just want to mention this. I'd like them to try to take both of their desires and figure out how they both accomplish it. Let's combine visions.

It's like we get competing visions. That's right. And it's like, okay, how could he get what he wants, some flexibility, although I think you've addressed a lot of this is fear, but he wants some flexibility to work really hard for this big pile of cash. I get it. Yeah. How do we get him his flexibility, but how do we also get you the peace of mind?

Isn't that the conversation, John? It is, but when you're working with someone who's been traumatized, it's hard. I get that. No, I understand. But you've got to give it a shot. So it sounds like in 2007, he walked out of a restaurant and got smacked in the mouth, and he's clenched that fence, fist, for the last 15 years, waiting for his shot to hit somebody back.

And he's looking at the high prices and he's like, okay, this is my shot. You know, Liz, quick question here. It's super practical. We've got to let you go. But I want to know, yes or no, have you sat down and run the numbers and sat down and said, hey, if we paid this off today, if we took the $300,000. Boom, it's gone. With our $400,000 combined income, we would have no debt at all. Paid for house, it's worth $900,000 plus. And then this is how quickly we could build up investment money to do this, this, and this. In fact, we could invest right away.

We're already doing 15%. Have you run those numbers and just showed him a vision, an alternative? We have. We have both ran down and ran our own numbers which is which is hilarious to look at of course well you guys are awesome you're very disciplined you're in a great situation it's it's so always remember behavior is a language and when you box yourself into a corner then the only thing you can do when you back yourself up against the wall you have to come out swinging and nobody ever wins when that happens.

So let's decide, okay, we're both backed up against the wall. Let's find a third path forward. And I like the idea of splitting it up. We'll pay $200,000 towards the house. We'll keep $100,000 and we'll go from there. And you could say pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, please. I don't know if that's going to work at this point. You don't think?

Probably not. He's on tour. I want to thank our producer, James Childs, our associate producer, call screener, Jenna Sears, my colleague, Dr. John Deloney, and you, America. Thank you for being with us. This is The Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Ramsey Show. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts.