The Ramsey Show - App - Higher Education Is NOT the Only Path to Success! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 19, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. My name is Anthony O'Neill, host of the popular YouTube show, The Table with A.O., and co-hosting with me is the number one career expert in America, the one and only Ken Coleman, host of The Ken Coleman Show. You can catch him Monday through Friday every single day on YouTube, every single day of Sirius XM, Monday through Friday, and podcasts wherever you are internationally. That's right. And nearly 60 stations. Now, we're closing in on 60 stations on your talk

radio dial. So yeah, man, we're trying to be everywhere. People are, you know, you know, a lot of people need some help. People listen, people are sick and tired of showing up on Monday morning, being miserable before they even get out of the car. So we're taking your, your purposeful career calls today. If you want to work on purpose and live on purpose, you're not doing work you love, you don't even know what you want to do, call us. If you know what you want to do but not sure how to get there, call us. If you know what you want to do, you know how to get there, but you're just scared, call us. That's it.

We're here for you. We're taking your money questions, your career, your job questions. You know what this is, A.O.? To the Dave Ramsey crowd, do you know what my role is in Ramsey Solutions? What's your role? Big shovel guy. Oh. You want more money to get out of debt?

Yes. The Ken Coleman Show is getting emails and calls and social media posts every day. Ken, I did what you told me to do. I got a better job. I'm on the way to the dream job. I'm making more money. So if you want to get out of debt, I'm the big shovel guy. I like that.

You feel me? I like that analogy. That's the truth. To the Dave Ramsey audience, I can help you make good money doing what you're good at and what you love. So there you go. You're doing it. So, hey, give us a call, 888-825-5225. If you want to learn how to get your shovel bigger

give us a call ken comey can walk you through that process if your shovel is at a good size you want to learn how to use that shovel give us a call i can help you out with that at 888-825-5225 ronda is in dayton ohio good afternoon ronda how can ken and i help hi thank you for taking my call no problem at all how can we help in Dayton, Ohio. Good afternoon, Rhonda. How can Ken and I help? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. No problem at all. How can we help? A year and a half ago,

my husband was diagnosed with a brain tumor. He is in remission. But my question is, we stopped paying on his student loan, which is the only debt that we have and started paying our house off and I'm wanting to know if that is the right thing to do well before I answer that question I'm curious to know why did you make that decision Well, just because just the diagnosis and, you know, having a paid-off home if something happened, and the student loan would be forgiven if something happened to him.

Okay. What's your student loan balance right now? $50,000. $50,000? How much do you owe on the home? 100. How much is it worth? 250. Okay. Yeah. How much are you putting on the home every month extra outside of your expenses, how much are you putting into the home loan? Between $700 and $800. $700 and $800? $100 or $1,000?

$1,000. Wow! What's your mortgage payment? Well, it just was lowered, but it's $850. $850. What's your combined income? $160 to $170. Yeah.

Fantastic. Okay, Ayo, you can take this from here. $7,000 to $8,000 is what they're putting on the house. I'm curious, Rhonda, how long have you all been doing this? Well, we just paid off everything, and I've been doing it for, let's say, about four months. Yeah. Okay. So what I want you to do, and let me say this.

I understand why. I understand your why. I really do. I don't want you to feel as if we're being hard on you. I would love for you to pay off your home mortgage, but if you would have spent the last five months doing the same thing towards that $50,000 in student loans, you'll be debt-free excluding your mortgage. I'm curious.

You all make good money. How much money do you have in your savings account right now? We have a six-month emergency fund. Okay. And how much is that? It's like $22,000. Okay, $22,000. Yeah, you need to shift.

Listen, you're seven and a half months away. If you're paying $8,000 a month, you said seven to eight. If you're paying $8,000 a month, then you're six and a half months away from paying off the student loan, and you're still in really good shape on the home. Yeah. And because of the fact that the home's worth $250,000 and you've only got $100,000 left on it, if something were to happen with your husband and things seem to be great, you're just in great shape. So get back to the loan, pay the loan off and then tackle the house. You guys are in phenomenal shape. So it's not like you've done anything. Again, we're not judging what you've done, but you don't need to do this. Get rid of that loan.

Get it out of your life. You're going to be done with it so quickly and you're already in good shape on the house. Yeah. And Rhonda, one more quick question for you. I agree with Ken, but one more quick question to kind of put the icing on that, or it may deviate some things. Are there any potential medical things that may come up in the next few months, probably within the next 12 months, that you may have to put some cash towards with your husband? He does have to have an MRI every three months, and we do have to pay for that.

Does the insurance cover that i think the last one that he had we paid 300 okay all right so cool so here's the thing ron you're not gonna like my answer okay and okay but i'm telling you right now if you do this by this time next year you will be where you want to be okay i'm going to take the twenty two thousand dollars and here's the thing i'm going to pay i'm going to take that i'm going to take twenty thousand of that i will leave two thousand dollars in there so that way you can have some little bit of cushion for the medical stuff kind of coming up that you say you may have okay we teach a thousand dollars emergency fund but i'm cool with two thousand in there just for the small things that may come up along the way

but i'm taking that twenty thousand and i'm going to attack that 50,000. That brings it down to 30,000. And then the next few months I'm putting an extra seven towards my student loans and just paying the mortgage bare minimum, whatever that mortgage payment is. And then by this, by February of next year, you can get back to building your six months back up. That should take you anywhere from two months, two to three months. By summer of next year, you're back to attacking your mortgage. And within a year, you can have that paid off. But that's what I would do right now.

Have that cushion. So by this time next year, you're 100 percent debt free student loans and mortgage. And you have six months sitting in the account. That's a beautiful, beautiful feeling. But thank you so much for calling in. And we are praying for you, your husband. I believe that God can shift some things. And so continue being a good steward. Pay off your debt and that we're praying for you and your family. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. I get the privilege every day to talk to smart, creative entrepreneurs doing great things for our economy. GRIP6 is no exception. BJ and the great team at GRIP6 know how to truly create

smart products that are unique and makes everyone's life a little easier. That's why I'm so excited to announce to you that GRIP6 is expanding their innovative product line. You heard me. Along with their no holes and no flap and no bulk belt buckles, they are adding an aluminum wallet engineered to be the quickest and most intuitive way to access your cards and everyday wear Merino wool socks. The socks come in ankles and crew with wool sourced right here in the USA. And all of Grip6 products are guaranteed for life. Folks, Grip6 is rebuilding and modernizing American manufacturing with products

sourced in the U.S. Give these products as gifts this season. To get the Dave Ramsey special, visit GRIP6.com. America, thank you for listening. This is the Dave Ramsey Show where Ken Coleman and myself, Anthony O'Neill, are sitting here taking your phone calls around life, around money, around careers. If you really want to, like Ken Coleman said earlier, get a bigger shovel, give us a call. Allow us to walk through the process with you and how to do that. And so this way we can help you become successful.

888-825-5225. We have one line that just opened up. Kelly is standing by and she may or may not get you in. That's Kelly's phone. We just answer whatever she sends us. And so she sent us Hannah from Salt Lake City. Good afternoon, Hannah. How can Ken and I help? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. So my husband and I just finished our baby step two. And so we're on baby step three. But our main question is my husband has the opportunity to stay at work full-time and get his college

paid for and so he would just continue going to school part-time and it would take him a little bit more time to finish obviously or he can go part-time at work and we can cash flow his schooling and he can get his bachelor's done faster, what would you guys suggest we do? Interesting. So you guys have already thought this out and played this out financially, correct? Yeah. Yeah. So we could afford for him to go part-time and still cash flow his school. Okay. And he would get his bachelor's faster. All right.

Let's fast forward. Or he could. No, I get it. Okay. So in order for me to give you an opinion, and I'm not going to give you my opinion until I hear what you guys are leaning towards, because I don't ever want to influence a caller in a situation. But my question is, fast forward to the end of the bachelor's,

whether he does it part-time or full-time, what's his next move? What's he going for? So he would get a bachelor's in accounting and he would want to move on to graduate school to get a master's. And then head to what? What's the journey? What's the destination? If he's going to grad school, why? Why is he going to grad school? Oh, gotcha. He would want to go and get his master's

so that he could eventually just get a master's in accounting because it's pretty much what you need to be a CPA. Okay. All right. So the goal is to be a CPA? Yeah. And work for himself or work for somebody else? Work for somebody else, maybe eventually work for himself. Okay. It's not something we're super focused on right now. No, I get it. But you need to be thinking about what's the best path to the destination. And that's where I'm, before I give you an answer

on what you should do, I want to know where we're trying to go because there's always a choice on the path. Sometimes the paths are equal. Sometimes they are not. How are you going to pay for the master's degree? We would save up money and cash flow it. Okay, so he would go back to work where he is, go back to full-time, increase his pay, and then save up and cash flow the master's. Exactly.

All right, what's the last question? And I want to know what you guys are leaning towards, and I'll tell you what I think, Ayo, you weigh in on this. How much faster will he get done with the undergrad if he goes part-time to work? If he goes part-time, he could be done in two years. If he stayed full-time at work and just does part-time, it would take him closer to four years. Okay. All right.

What are you guys leaning towards? Before you called in to get our advice, what were you leaning towards? We were leaning towards him going part-time at work and just trying to knock out school. Yeah. That's what I think. The only reason I think that is because you guys have already done the work of sitting down and putting a budget together that includes a financial sacrifice because he's going to make less money, significantly less.

But you guys have figured out a plan for that. And I say congratulations. That is phenomenal planning. And because you guys can absorb it and you can make this sacrifice, yeah, I like it because it gets you closer to the dream and significantly closer. Two years is a big difference. And then he goes back to work, and then you cash flow the master's degree. The only thing I would challenge you and your husband to talk about is how does he become a CPA without the master's degree. The only thing I would challenge you and your husband to talk about is, how does he become a CPA without the master's degree?

I just want to challenge you guys to do your research on that, because you essentially admitted it's not, you don't have to have it. It's highly encouraged, and I think probably helpful, and I don't disagree. But I just think when you talk about that kind of money and that kind of time, why wouldn't you exhaust all research to see if I wanted to become a CPA and I wanted to do it without a master's degree, how would one get there? That's my homework assignment for you. I like that. And you know, one of the key things that I tell anyone before you go off to school, sit down, do the research

and plan. And that's exactly what she did. You know, that's exactly what her and her husband did. And I appreciate you for challenging them to sit back and say, you know, hey, do I need this master's degree? You know, because what's the what's the return on investment here? You know, can I will it take me maybe instead of if I have my master's degree, maybe I can get there within two years. But if I don I have my master's degree, maybe I can get there within two years. But if I don't have my master's degree, will it take me three and a half years? And if I can get there within three and a half to four years, I'm fine going without a master's degree. Now, if it's going to take me 10 years compared to two years, I'm going to do the math and see how I can get there.

But the key thing, America, is when it goes when it comes to going to college, you have to step back and do the research and plan. Write down all of your options. Look at all of your options. Talk about it. Get some accountability partners. Call into the King Coleman Show. Call into the Dave Ramsey Show. Call into the AO Show.

Call in and get some advice so we can help you walk you through this process. Two little quick questions you've heard me talk about. You and I have talked about it a lot together. We sit next to each other every day. Yeah. Is the ultimate litmus test, folks, of asking yourself, do I move forward on a degree, whether it be undergrad or grad degree? Yeah.

Is it the only way? Yeah. Is it the only path up the mountain? Or is it the best way? If it's the best way, Yeah. Is it the only path up the mountain or is it the best way? If it's the best way, great. If it's the only way, of course you got to go that way. But if it's not, and you can become a CPA another way. And by the way, when they do their research, I think they're going to see that there are some options there. Yes. But that's how you really set things straight for yourself to go wait a second is there's so much public pressure ao you know this it is a cultural pressure that says in order

for me to advance high up the ladder i'm going to need multiple degrees and all these letters behind me well that is true in certain career fields. Yes. But it is also false. Yes. Come on. In many career fields. And we've got to have the courage to understand that higher education has got some history in this country. You all right if I preach a little bit? Preach a little bit. All right, here we go. I'm going to give you all a history lesson on higher education in two minutes. In the 50s and 60s, states started realizing that if they could tout that we had a university in a certain area, that it would bring in research dollars because the federal government was giving universities and colleges federal money to do scientific research that would help either win the Cold War or win the Space War and all that kind of stuff, and find medical inventions or new medicines

and cures and all this stuff. And so the states started realizing, wait a second, we're going to bring in jobs with all this federal money, and with more jobs, what happens? Bigger tax base. Come on, man. And governors can get reelectelected say look i brought all these jobs so there became this partnership between higher education and the government to market that the best way to succeed is higher education and so it became a cultural message just like milk does a body good or any other kind of message that you've seen out there.

And it was a marketing message, and we all bought it. We said, oh, gosh, if we're going to be successful, we've got to go to college. And there were posters in American classrooms that showed a college grad smiling, and it said, work smart. Then it showed a dude in overalls and a wrench on his shoulder frowning, going, don't work hard. And we bought this message. What I'm telling you is it was a marketing message, and it's less and less true in 2020.

It sure is. And as a matter of fact, when we come back from the break, Ken is fired up about this message. I am too. And I want to read this article about what Parent Plus Loans are doing to parents and how it's destroying their financial future. So y'all stay tuned because right now I'm upset. Ken's upset. And we're going to talk about it when we come back. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. so a recent article was released on NBC News

where it says parent plus loans are literally destroying families financial future with college debt. And I want to read just a piece of this, because when I was reading this, I sent it to our producer, James Childs, and I told him, I said, hey, man, I want to talk about this because it's frustrating. And with you and I being on the show today, I think we can really help people. The article reads that Jay Reif was sitting in his pickup truck on the outskirts of Las Vegas when he answered a phone call that would permanently alter his life. A man from the federal government was on the line and told him that the loan he had taken out so his son and daughter could go to school, go to college, had come due. The monthly payment, America, was twelve hundred dollars. Rife said, I thought I was going to pass out who was only making thirteen dollars an hour as a maintenance worker. I hung up the phone and just kind of sat there for an hour trying to figure out what was I going to do.

He didn't want to tell his wife, Tina, hoping to protect her from the possibility of being plundered into poverty. But it was a secret he could keep. I think we both sat and cried for a while over it, said Jay, now 64 years old uh the couple originally at forty thousand dollars took out has uh has snowballed in the last 18 years with interest rates as high as 8.5 percent their bill now stands at more than a hundred thousand dollars they couldn't afford it so they negotiated with the federal government to get it down to seven hundred and thirty three dollars a month. Still, that payment is more than a mortgage and it doesn't cover the interest. So the amount owed has continued to grow. And this bothers me, man, as I was reading this kid. OK, there's a lot of things in this article that which is very very frustrating

to me but here's the thing that really really bothered me check this out america part of what pushes up those numbers are the government's interest rates which are higher than private banks they've averaged more than seven percent seven percent over the past decade. Over 7. On top of that, on top of the 7, America, the government charges parents an additional fee of more than 4% of the total loan, and the terms are relatively unforgiving. The government makes money off of parent plus loans, according to the Congressional Budget Office.

Of course they do. Are you ready for this? More than 200,000 families who made less than $40,000 a year, listen to this, folks. Goodness gracious. Okay? Took out a Parent PLUS loan in 2016. This was an increase of 33% from 2008. So we're talking about eight years, 33% more took out these loans. And these are

folks that are making less than $40,000 a year. And this speaks to what I was saying in the last segment, if you missed it, there is a marketing message AO that has been a combined effort between state and federal governments pushing this message that higher education is the best way to success. It is the way to the American dream. Yeah. And that is not the case. It's not. Is it a way?

Sure. Is it the way? No, it's not the way. Let me tell you what has thrived during the coronavirus pandemic. Yes. The trades. Come on, man. Come on.

And by the way, we're not just talking about plumbers and electricians and welders and carpenters. As individuals, we're talking about businesses in the trades that employ people, and it is the small business man and woman, the small businesses in the trades, A.O., that drive our economy. And again, I mentioned this, my good friend Mike Grove from Dirty Jobs, I've interviewed him several times. He's the one that showed me the poster. When he was actually in high school in the 70s, a poster was put up in the guidance counselor's office where it showed two men in the poster. On one side, it was like a split screen.

On one side was a young man in a graduation gown and the hat. And he's got his diploma in his arm, and he's smiling as though the world is at his feet. Underneath him, it said, work smart. On the other side of the poster is a man in overalls, dirt on his face, and on his coveralls, and a big giant wrench

over his shoulder, and he looks as though the world has beaten him down. Underneath him, it said, not work hard. Work smart, not work hard. And this is the marketing message that began to take over. And so it was, here's what parents do when they see that. I'm not a good parent if Johnny or Susie doesn't go to college.

We are less than if we go to the neighborhood block party or the picnic or the cocktail party, and they say, what's Junior doing? And you go, well, Junior's studying to be a welder in the trade school. You're supposed to be ashamed of that. No. No. It became a message that, well, Junior's at the state college studying to become successful when Junior was probably partying and not studying.

And now when college education became the way that states get federal funding and more jobs and endowments became in the billions of dollars and higher education became big business, now I'm about ready to step on all kinds of toes, then the cost of education went up. Thus, the price of student loans went up in the sense that the government went, oh, we can make money on both ends of this deal. Yes. And so now we're going to put out loans for parents. And big government comes in and says, you too can have the American dream if you borrow this money from us and pay us back.

And then we see how out of control it's gotten. You know the numbers better than I do. And now we're saying, well, we're going to forgive these loans because it's the right thing to do, except that the American people have paid their taxes for those loans. So we got ourselves a big, giant cultural lie that we need to deal with, that college is the only way to success. That's just a big bunch of crap. I mean, what we're seeing right now, we're not saying that college doesn't help you become successful.

No. But if you do it the wrong way, your dream now becomes a nightmare. But if you do it and you don't need it, what are we doing? Oh, it's really good for junior to go and experience life yes on campus and meet people and learn how to party no if your kid doesn't need the degree if it's not the only way or the best way why are you sending your kid to college i'm gonna tell you something right now I think it's nonsensical. That's what I think.

It's not a rite of passage. It's a cultural thing. It's a status is what it is. It's like, huh, our kid went to college. Big freaking deal. If one of the Coleman kids comes to me and says, Dad, I know what the path is and college isn't it. I'm going to check out the path. We're going to talk through it. We're going to make sure it's in their sweet spot,

and then I'm going to go. Go, baby, go. Because while all your friends are partying and eating ramen noodles and racking up debt, you're making money and you're way ahead. Folks, we've got to wake up, man, because we've got families that are crippled. Crippled. Crippled financially because of this cultural garbage.

This family are now 60. He's 63 years old. The mother is 63 as well. Yeah. No hope. And in this article, they're saying we are disabled, can no longer work, and we do not have health insurance because we just have to make these loan payments. And to me, that is so frustrating. And that is why I love what you're doing, teaching people how to find their sweet spot, then see what's the best route to get to that sweet spot. But you wrote a number one

bestselling book that every parent who's sitting there going, okay, Ken, maybe I'll be open to this, but I really think my kid needs to go to school. Well, would you at least buy Anthony's book, Debt-Free Degree, anthonyoneal.com, daveramsey.com, because he actually shows you how your kid can go to school if they need the degree and not be overwhelmed with debt and here's the thing

that when I was reading this whole article which was a little frustrating part for me was it was this it was like hey they went to in-state school well okay

they couldn't afford it well then you should have went to community college okay there are options to where you can be successful and not rack up debt when it comes to going to college.

Nobody cares where your degree is from. When was the last time you went to the doctor and before he saw you said, I'm sorry, could you please show me your diploma please? Nobody does that. This is what you get when you come to the Dave Ramsey Show, especially when you got Ken Coleman and Anthony O'Neal on here. We'll be right back. Ken Coleman. King Coleman my name is Anthony O'Neill Ramsey Personalities here on the Dave Ramsey show where

we would love to talk to you about your life money careers relationships give us a call 888-825-5225 and we'll have a conversation with you and help you out with your journey Brandon is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Good afternoon, Brandon. How can Ken and I help? Hey, thank you guys for taking my call. So I wanted to kind of just run by my current situation with you and get your opinion.

I'm 21. I'm on Baby Step 2. I have about 3,000 on my card note and just about the same on my student loans. I have an issue with spending money on buying stuff I don't need. I convinced myself, like, from I want it to I need it, and I need it now. And so I decided to build all in with this program. And I basically just want to, you know, I want to get out of debt. I don't want to go back in.

So how do I fight that urge and not go back into debt after paying off my loans? Oh, man. Good question. How much money do you make right now a year, Brandon? About $30,000 to $34,000 depending on like overtime and stuff like that. Cool. Are you living at home with your parents or you have your own place? I'm with my grandfather.

Okay. All right. With your grandfather. All right. Cool. So your question today is how do I hold myself accountable to the plan and do not overspend money but take control of my financial future, right? Correct. Okay.

Ken, my answer is very quick. Yeah. I want to hear it. My answer? Yeah. Just do it. I don't really think there's motivation. You know, it's a choice. You know, Brandon, I think the key thing that you have to tell yourself is do it.

I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to go here. I'm not going to purchase this. I'm going to do it because you're six thousand dollars in debt. You make thirty four thousand dollars a year. You're staying at home with your grandparents. I'm I'm I am assuming that you're not paying them any rent, correct? No, I do pay my part of the bill, like the gas, the electric, and stuff like that. So that's about $150 a month, correct? About, yeah, like $150, $175. How much do you have in your savings account?

My savings is about $1,100, and I got about 900 in my checking. Okay. All right. So here's what you got to do, man. You got to attack your debt, 6K. Living at home, only paying $150 a month just to go towards your bills. You should be out of debt within the next two and a half months. By January 15th, you should be 100% debt free. You know, especially when it comes to young

people, you know, I try to be very careful what I say with my words, because I remember being your age and telling myself, I can't do this. I can't, I have a problem with this. Well, if I know I have a problem, which I want to commend you on and acknowledging you have a problem, if you can acknowledge it, you can change it. And so for me, I'm going to say, bro, just you know the plan. You know how to work the plan. Just do it. Look at you. Look yourself in the mirror and say, you know what?

I have this problem. But today it ends. And tomorrow I'm going to become a new man and I'm going to take control of my finances in my future. All right, Brandon, here we go. You ready? Yeah. Your problem is you've been spending to feel good instead of acting to be good. And you're all about the feeling when you spend like this. I'm not going to try to psychoanalyze you. You can tell me if I'm wrong, by the way, right now. I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong on the third largest radio show in the world. But my guess is I'm right that when you're spending like this, when someone says, I'm having a hard time because I buy things that I

really don't need, we're trying to fill some type of a hole with that purchase. And really, it comes down to whatever the reason for the hole is, we're trying to make ourselves feel good. And I think that you've got to acknowledge that maybe even get some help on that. It may be not that deep of an issue. It may just be where your focus is. And that's why I started with focusing on feeling good versus focusing on being good. And what I want you to do is think of that desired future. What's that dream? Five, 10, 15 years from now, where do you want to be? What's the big picture? What's the story you want people to tell about your life?

And every time you make a boneheaded purchase, you are pressing pause on that desired future. Do you understand what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, I do. Am I right or am I wrong about your feeling, trying to feel good with these purchases? No, you're completely right. I didn't have much of anything growing up. And so now that I'm able to get stuff, I just feel like I have to have it now or I'm not going to have it later. All right, so let me talk to you. Let me talk to you.

Here's what's going on. You come from a very tough background. You didn't have much. And now that you're out on your own, you're trying to prove to yourself that you're not your parents. Am I really stepping on the nerve right now? Yeah, that's correct. Come on, man, I feel you. You're trying to create a – you are dealing with a false narrative

that's saying that Brandon is who his parents were. And so you're trying to prove to yourself and everybody else that you're not who your parents were, that you have something, that you are somebody. And I can tell you, my friend, you are somebody regardless of how many things you have and how many zeros you have in your bank account. Do you hear me? Yes. So you need to shift your focus to what your desired future is and how the finances allow you to make that future happen. If you change your focus to the story that you are telling with your life and not trying to show everybody that you're not who your mom and dad are or were,

then I think you're going to see behavior change. That would be my take. I like it, man. Here's another thing too, Brandon, is you and I probably grew up right around the same type of family growing up. One of the key things that I've learned is I had a lot growing up from my parents. I didn't have a lot of practical things, but my parents taught me a't have a lot of practical things, but my parents taught me a lot. One of the key things that made me spin like you when I was your age wasn't because I didn't have,

but because of what I was seeing around me. And so one thing I would even suggest that you do is on top of the change, on top of changing your own narrative, maybe for a while, watch what you're putting inside of your eyes. Watch what you're seeing on social media. Watch what you're putting inside of your eyes you know watch what you're seeing on social media watch what you're hearing in the music like change what you are

exposing yourself to because whatever you expose yourself to then you want to become that and you really have to get comfortable with your own life with where you are in life what you can do in life because i think sometimes it's not about really just our past. That plays a huge role, but sometimes it's about what we see. You're right. Other people doing it. Come on.

Let's talk. Especially with young people. That's really, really good. Yes and amen to my bro right here on this, and I'm going to add something to that. Just add. I'm sick and tired, and I could throw out names, but then I'd have to talk to James and Kelly about it and then I'd, you know, whatever. There are a lot of social media influencers that are in the personal development space

that we are in. Yeah. And I look at their Instagram posts and they're selling a lie and they're helping create the crap that Brandon's dealing with that you told him to avoid. You know why they're going? Success is a boat. Success is being in debt and having three or four real estate properties. Success is having all this bling, man.

Oh, that's so bad. Success is having all this stuff, and they're creating this comparison cancer for people. And social media is crushing people's actual dreams because they're too busy looking at what everybody else says is success and they're not paying attention to what their definition of success is you got to watch it ao's right you got to stop hanging out on those instagram accounts with all these people lying to you with their flashy life i'm gonna tell you something they're an absolute mess yeah and they're profiting off of comparison. Oh, I'm fired up.

And here's the thing. I know exactly who you're talking about, and I think America knows exactly who we're talking about. I really want to say this one dude's name. If Dave was here, he would say it. He calls Dave out. He calls Dave out. This dude calls Dave out, and Dave is such a gentleman. Yes.

He ain't even going to play that game. But I'm telling you right now, there's a dude who's telling people that Dave is such a gentleman. Yes. He ain't even going to play that game. But I'm telling you right now, there's a dude who's telling people that Dave is wrong and that you need all the debt you can possibly stack up so you can live the lavish life. No, don't say it because I don't want to. I'm telling you. We're not going to say it. We're not going to say it. Because he's wrong.

That's all I'm going to say. He's absolutely wrong. And he's profiteering off of a comparison game, which is dangerous. There it is. That's all I'm saying. Oh, man. Huh? If James wouldn't have shook his head, I would have said that.

I know. Well, we don't need to, though. This ain't my show. But come over to my show. I'll tell you who it is. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. On your smart speaker, you can add our skill by saying, Alexa, open the Ramsey Network skill. From there, you can listen to all our shows.

Ask Dave money questions like, how do I invest my money? Or what is the debt snowball? Find out more at DaveRamsey.com.