The Ramsey Show - App - How A Bigger Paycheck Could Lead To Bigger Problems

Episode Date: December 27, 2024

While we're out for the Christmas break, we've compiled some of our favorite John and George calls from the past couple of years. Enjoy your day and we'll be back with a live show in the new year! John Delony & George Kamel answer your questions and discuss: ‘We make $330K and live paycheck to paycheck' 'Is my mother-in-law is trying to cause a rift?’ ‘I feel guilty for spending money on therapy’ ‘I'm 15, how can I help my parents financially?' ‘Dealing with my husband's gambling addiction’ 'We've been living in a hotel for 3 months.'

Девочка-пай live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George Campbell joined by Dr. John Deloney best-selling author of Building a Non-Anxious Life I guess I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney, bestselling author of Building a Non-Anxious Life. I guess I'm an aspiring bestselling author, John. I just pre-launched a book, and I hope that it's successful as yours. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. It's on pre-sale right now at ramsaysolutions.com. Work hard, George.

Inspiring. May you accomplish all of your dreams. But we're both YouTubers, so we succeeded in that regard. Well, you're crushing me on YouTube. If that's success. Well, let's take some calls. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll help you take the right next step with your money, your mental health, your relationships, whatever it is.

We will give you our advice. That is a guarantee. All right, let's start with Jessica in Boston. What's going on, Jessica? Hi. So I'm wondering how my husband and I have, we're a family of five. We have three kids, five and under. We both work. We make a very good living north of 300K a year, which almost 50 of it is tax-free because my husband receives VA disability pay monthly. But we've had several crises, I guess, come up the past two years. And we were debt-free, but now due to the unexpected occurrences,

we're now living beyond our means, paycheck to paycheck, have no savings. And, you know, our emotional, our physical health is taking a toll. Our marriage is taking a toll. And we want to stop living paycheck to paycheck. How do we get out of this? And how can we repair the relationship along the way? I'm sorry to hear what you're

going through. Yeah, what happened? What were the crises? Yeah, so we, the height of the real estate market, right, we sold our first house. You know, this is our opportunity to get debt free. We were probably, I want to say between 50 to 65,000 in debt. At the height of the market in 2021, we sold our first home, walked away spot free, paid off the entirety of our debt. And then I got pregnant with our third child. I was only six months postpartum. And I was actually struggling with postpartum depression in the interim. We had major complications. I was in preterm labor for almost three months, and I am the breadwinner between me and him. you know, uh, software, uh, sales, technology sales, I should say, um, job and which forced

me to, uh, need to take a medical leave of absence due to my postpartum getting so bad. Um, it was literally for the safety of myself and my family that I had to take a medical leave. And the day I returned to work, I was laid off. In turn, we literally two weeks. Yeah, it was bad. So two, I want to say a month prior to me going back to work, we had just closed on a new home, our forever home, and the bills piled up quick. So how much debt are you in now? It's probably, I want to say between $22,000 to $25,000 total. And what kind of debt?

Yeah, so it's unsecured loan debt, credit card debt. Should I include the car or no? Yes, that's debt, isn't it? Okay, then it goes up from there. So I would tack on a total, an additional $60,000. So you're probably $85,000 in consumer debt. Are you back to working now? I am, I am. I found a new job fairly soon, within a month, and I am working.

Are you still making $300,000? It takes some time to build the pipeline again. Okay. What's your husband do? Yeah, he works for the government, and he was a Marine, and now he works for the government as a safety inspector for OSHA.

So I'm going to let George talk you through this debt situation, but I want to say a couple things, okay? Okay. The first thing is, I'm really, really glad you're still here. Thank you. And making that call when you're holding a baby is one of the scariest calls you can make, right?

It is. Yeah. Because there's that demon telling you that they're going to take your baby away. People are going to say you're crazy and they're going to lock you up. And I'm so, so proud of you for doing that. That's hard. And we're good now, right? For the most, most of the time. I still have moments. Yes, there you go. Let me ask you this way. You're always going to be around here, right? Yes, for sure. Good. the second thing is if you haven't already there's gonna come a moment when y'all are gonna have to and the quicker you get here the quicker you can begin to do

the walk the path that jordan's gonna lay out for you you're gonna have to make peace with grieve the crap out of but make peace with here's the life we had and now here's the one we're in right now okay the more you try to quote unquote get back to what we had the more you're going to make yourself nuts because you're just going to run in a circle you're going to be dragging what used to be right so we used to have sixty thousand dollar cars we don't anymore we're a camry family now we used to have a humongous house and we had our forever house. It's not a forever house anymore. You and me are forever husband, but the house isn't.

And that's okay. And we used to make 300 grand. Now we don't. And maybe one day we will again, but that's not the world we're in right now. And so when you make peace existentially with those moments, then remember we had Alexis? Yeah. But now we got a Corolla and it gets us where we need to go.

And you got a bunch of dope marine tattoos, but you're going to look awesome. Smoking hot, getting out of a Camry. That's just the world we have now, right? And it's not less than, it's just different. It's different. And it'll be back. It'll be back.

You're a hustler. Your husband's a brilliant guy. I mean, you'll be back. But let's make peace with that new world, right? And that new world is awesome, by the way. It's top 1% of planet earth. It's a great world. Just, we've got to let go of what used to be. It used to be awesome, and then we got laid off, and it sucks, and here we are now. Now it's awesome again. Just a different kind of awesome. Okay. So, Jessica, this is going to start with some simple math, but it's going to end with some sacrifice and behavior change. You ready for it?

Absolutely. Okay. Keep the mind as... Is your husband on board, too? This is an important factor. He is. He knows how you feel about all this. Okay. We're going to get you to solid ground, and I'll give you some options.

It'll be a choose-your-own-adventure. My guess is your take-home pay is somewhere around $15,000 a month? Yes. Okay. Correct. So let's look at what our expenses are. What do we need to keep the household running? And you're going to do that with a budget.

I'm going to gift it to you. It's called EveryDollar. I'm going to give you the premium version. It's going to have paycheck planning, connect to your bank account, all the good stuff. Your homework is to list out every single expense you have as a family and ruthlessly cut out the stuff that doesn't matter that you don't need right now. You got that? Okay.

Give me a rough estimate of what that would add up to. Five grand? cut out the stuff that doesn't matter that you don't need right now you got that okay give me a rough estimate of what that would add up to five grand for cutting out or the total expenses that would keep the house running food shelter utilities transportation all that probably 12 12 grand yep that's our nanny included, child care included. Oh, my. We need for both of us to work. Okay. Remember those sacrifices I mentioned, Jessica?

This is where we might have to figure out how to get that $12,000 down to $5,000. So we have $10,000 to throw at the debt, and we can be done in eight months. That might mean selling the cars if you can't make those sacrifices. It might mean letting the nanny go for a season. This is not going to be fun, but your life on the other side is going to be way better for it. So hang on the line. We'll gift you every dollar. We're wishing you the best. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Today's question of the day is brought to you by YRefi.

YRefi refinances defaulted private student loans. Defaulted meaning when the borrower can't make the required payments. So if that describes you and you've got private student loans, contact Y-Refi. They can offer you a low fixed rate loan built for you. Go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Might not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Andrea in Arkansas. My husband's mom inherited the family hunting ranch. Oh, I would love to get this call one day, which is worth about a million dollars. My husband and I pay most of the expenses. We use our personal equipment to

maintain it, and we are the ones who schedule and host hunters. I also handle all the bookkeeping. Andrea, call me. So I told my mother-in-law that an LLC needs to be created for the amount of business we do. She met with her attorney and now the ranch is now only in hers and my husband's name. I feel like she's trying to cause a rift between my husband and me. I'm trying not to judge their family history, but every one of the other four kids are divorced this seems to be her way of creating an easy way out of it if we were to divorce my husband and i have a strong relationship and he assures me not to worry because this will change nothing in our marriage

but i'm the one doing all the legwork and hoping this doesn't mess up our relationship am i wrong for voicing my opinion in this matter? What happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? We have two questions. We have two kids that will need to be cared for, and we earn nothing from the ranch. Those last four words tell me a whole lot. That's really the resentment. She's putting a whole lot of work in.

She's getting zero dollars for it, and her name's not attached to it. So there seems to be that's all playing into this picture yeah there's this is a mess they use their personal equipment to maintain it they're the ones scheduling doing all that she's doing the bookkeeping and she's the one handling telling the mother-in-law to meet with this person and i i personally don't know the full story i don't know if the mother-in-law is being malicious, if this is really a strategic move. This was inherited family land and property that she inherited. So the daughter-in-law doesn't have a right to this land, even though she's doing work for this property.

Right. Yeah, so there's multiple things happening here, I think, George. I think one of them is you're running a business that doesn't make any money. Stop. Stop running a business that doesn't make money.. Stop. Stop running a business that doesn't make money. Who is making the money? That's the question. The only thing I could think of.

We earn nothing. So like the husband, she's not getting anything. The husband's not. Is mom making all the money? Yeah. So husband is using all of his tools and stuff like that to help because he wants to help out mom. And he's the one good kid. He's the all the other kids are divorced and causing problems. And he's the one good kid. He's the, all the other kids are divorced and causing problems and he's the one good

kid. So he's just going to dump some money into this thing. That's one thing. If it's mom's property and she wants to bring on your husband as a co-owner of an LLC in case she passes away, it's easy to go to him. I wouldn't lose sleep over that. But the fact that you're asking this question tells me there's something else going on here. And if you had trust in your mother-in-law because of the way she has treated you in the past, and this came up, you wouldn't

think twice about it, right? If my in-laws, one of my in-laws, my father-in-law or my mother-in-law was to do a joint venture with my wife that I helped with, I wouldn't think twice about it because I trust both of them implicitly forever. This tells me there's other trust issues and that mom's maybe been trying to cut you out for a long time. And this is another way she kind of edge. Anyway, whole thing's messy. So I would ask this way. Number one, if your husband likes hunting on this property and it's fun and he likes doing it and he likes to make a little side money bringing in hunters in, y'all figured that out. Even if you bring in side money and all it does is pay the taxes on the land and pays for the feeders, fine. If husband's trying to do this to win mom's favor and maybe one day she'll leave it to him, hopefully.

And now we're getting into messy stuff. And if you're running a business that's not earning anything you need to have that conversation yeah whole thing's a mess but i want to go back to this um one question here am i wrong for voicing my opinion on this matter if you are a part of a marriage where both people have a voice and both people can be heard and to say what's on their hearts and on their minds. No, no. If you have voiced your opinion and your husband said, I don't care, don't worry about it, then nagging or complaining or going to war is not going to solve the problem. Then your marriage has deeper issues, which is your husband doesn't care what your opinion is on these matters. He's going to do

what he's going to do. You only need to address that core issue, right? Yeah. And talk to him. You said, what happens if my husband unexpectedly passed away? Figure out what the will looks like and what the estate planning journey looks like and what will happen with this LLC that he's a part of. I think you have a right to know what would happen there. But I also wouldn't, I feel like there's just more resentment here because of the effort she's putting in. So maybe she goes, I'm going to back out of this, and y'all can hire a bookkeeper. That's exactly right. You can hire a bookkeeper. You can hire somebody who is booking these hunts.

I'm going to step out and just be with the kids. There you go. And it's not a job. It's not like we're going to lose money on it. And y'all knock your lights out if that's something y'all want to do on the side. Not much to lose here. That's right. All right, let's go to the phones.

Daniel is in Cleveland up next. What's going on, Daniel? Hi, thanks, guys, for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So I'm 23 years old. My wife is 24. We have a three-month-old daughter. My wife stays at home. I'm a nurse. Our yearly income is probably around $60, Um, we bought a house around six months ago. Uh, we have about $150,000 loan, um, at like 5.6% interest, I think. So my question is we have about $100,000 in our, in a high yield savings account. I mean, it looks like we'll end up getting another $100,000 from like an inheritance,

basically, within the next month. We have zero debt. I'm just, I guess, just like looking forward, I guess, should I be paying off my home? I just don't know exactly, I guess, what to do with the money. I just don't want it to sit there. Yeah. So the $100,000 in the high yield, does that include your emergency fund? Is that built into that? Yeah, that's built into that, yes. Okay. So what number would that be? Let's separate it out.

I think probably around $20,000. Okay. So $80,000 is freed up. You've got $100,000 coming in from the inheritance. You owe $150,000 on the mortgage. I would pay off the house as soon as that inheritance comes in. Okay. That's going to lower your expenses. You've got to stay at home wife. It's going to free you up

with more margin to build wealth, to give, to up the lifestyle, whatever it is you want to do with that. But that's absolutely what I would do, especially as you filter it through the baby steps. Are you guys currently investing 15% of your income? No, we're not. So I haven't invested anything yet. I'm just starting to try to. I honestly haven't listened to Dave Ramsey much other than the last few months. Welcome to the cult, brother.

We're glad you're here. That means you're trying to better your finances and your family's future. So I love that. So I would begin, I'm sure as a nurse, you have a retirement plan, right? Yeah, I think they match like, I think 4% on a 401k. So I need to do that. So I would begin, I'm sure as a nurse, you have a retirement plan, right? Yeah, I think they match like, I think 4% on a 401k. So I need to do that. And then my wife actually has a Roth IRA that her father set up a long time ago. She hasn't put much money into it since then, but it has been building.

You can deposit money into there because of a spousal Roth IRA. So even if that spouse isn't working, because you're married, you know, she's married to you, you can have, you know, that earned income from you going into that account. So you could max out two Roth IRAs, you could put the 4% to get the match and invest that way. And I'll walk you through this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke and show you that path to building wealth. So I'll send you a copy of that. But the spark notes here is I'd get that house paid off. What's your mortgage payment? It's around $1,200. Okay. So I'm guessing principal and interest of that is a big chunk. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're paying $800 in interest, just the way that they set up the loan. Dude, what a gift to be 23 and 24 and not a payment in the world with

plenty of money in the bank. If you just keep living like that, you're going to be a multi-millionaire giving very generously. If you pay the house off tomorrow, you just got a raise to $72,000 a year. Yeah,

because of the... It makes sense. I guess for us, I just feel like i'm at somewhat of a pivotal point because i'm just don't know exactly what i want to do i also i'm thinking about going back to school um to try to increase obviously our yearly income i'm really hoping my wife can continue to stay home no house payment with money in the bank you can do anything you want and it'll give you the margin to do that without needing seven side jobs so you can be there with those young kids bro you don't have a house payment this is a great place to be you won you won if you don't screw this up and go take out stupid

student loans because well if you're an anesthesiologist and you can't don't take out any loans grind it take this extra money and spend it invest it in yourselves bro george you're right dude you won you won if you never have a payment again at 23 years old you're gonna be just fine my man thanks for the call this is the ramsey show hey you guys i'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're non-profit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place.

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they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. If you want to jump into the conversation and talk about your money, your life, your relationships, your mental health, your boundaries, or lack thereof. We want to help you take the right next step. Shelly joins us up next in Dallas, Texas. Shelly, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for taking my calls. I'm really just calling because I've been listening to the show a lot, and I know the baby steps and everything, and I know that I'm in a position where I can afford therapy, but my question is, it's just, well, it's not more of a question. It's just an emotional issue around spending the money on therapy. I just feel bad. I know I need it and my husband supports me, but, you know, just, it just makes me feel bad to spend. It costs a lot, and my insurance doesn't cover the license therapy part of it.

So what's it going to cost for you to get this help? Well, I was looking at, like, BetterHelp, and, you know, I even saw some more affordable options, too. So I did sign up with BetterHelp, but I'm just feeling like I'll try it for, you know, the first four weeks and then cancel it. I start something, you know, I'll start it. And I started therapy before, but it was just costing like $100 a week. So do you feel like this is a wasteful expense in your budget right now?

Like, hey, this money should be going toward this? What's behind that? I start feeling like, I don't know. And it's part of my anxiety. It's part of the reason why I think I need therapy. Well, I think it has nothing to do with money. I think money is the excuse that presents itself that gives you an out

so that you don't have to go through this fire where healing's on the other side of it? Yeah, it could be. I don't know. I think you should go. It's all confusing. Honestly, the feelings might be confusing, but even if you guys were up to your eyeballs in debt and you needed to go to counseling, we would tell you to stop paying off your debt, pause, and go to counseling.

Get the help, you can care that you need. Yeah, I'm trying to wrap, I'm trying to, you can tell yourself, I know this is so important, my health, but it just feels, it just hurts to pay it. I don't know, I was raised poor, you know, grew up in a poor family and we're doing really well now. And I just felt like that's it right there. That's it right there. You know why? Cause when you grew up other people, those people over there, they got counseling. They took quote unquote, took care of themselves. We don't got time for that. We don't need that. Only weaklings and wimps do that yeah right those people it was you didn't even want to say oh i need therapists

because you would in my family it would be like oh well you're crazy you know what in your family tell me if i'm wrong in your family you didn't say that you needed anything no i i actually struggled with eating disorder and everything starting when i was a teenager now i'm in my 40s and having panic attacks and i had a traumatic event last year medical with neuropathy for chronic pain for like eight months in my face it's time and it's time i can't sleep without heavy medicine it's time it's time whatever it takes if. Whatever it takes. If there was a medication, Shelley, that was $300 a month, but it changed your life, would you say that was a worthy $300 to spend that wasn't wasteful? Yeah. Well, I am spending a lot on my psychiatrist for

the medicine, so I have to have that or I just can't function. But your psychiatrist has been telling you for a long time, I'm going to give you these meds, but you need to go talk to somebody, haven't they? Yeah, he did say CBT would help me. Correct. It's time. I think we need to refile this in our brain as this is not a wasteful thing that I could be spending in this. And this is, it's too much in our budget into, hey, this is like paying for insurance. This is keeping the lights on.

This is paying for the internet bill. This is going to add so much utility and value to my life that I can't imagine not doing it. And it may not be forever. This may be a season that you go through and then it's over. Yeah. Yeah. I was kind of wondering about, I know everyone's different, but I was wondering about like on average, kind of how, how long it could take. You know, I've had friends tell me, oh, it took so-and-so a year to really, but there is light at the end of the tunnel. If you've struggled with disordered eating since you were a child

and you grew up in a pretty tough place and a pretty tough situation, and if you think so little of yourself that the idea of spending money to make sure you're whole and well so that you can show up for you and for your husband and for others if that shuts your body down or sets off your body's alarms it's going to be a while so i think it's counterproductive i'm telling you it's counterproductive to say okay I'll give you four and then I quit that's like going to the car dealer and saying

or to the mechanic and saying hey everything's broken on the car you got 30 minutes and then I'm just going to come pick it up yeah I want you to completely reframe this I put the stress on myself that I feel like I have to hurry and fix myself in this amount of time.

Right. And you're not somebody, listen, I used a bad analogy. You're not somebody to be fixed. Okay? You're not broken. Your body's working exactly as it should given the set of circumstances you grew up in plus some genetics. And what you're going to learn is different ways your body can get through a day. That's what counseling is going to do. It's going to let you practice. It's going to teach

your relationship. It's going to teach you some new skills. Over time, your body's going to learn, hey, we weren't safe then. We're safe now. All of that is worthy of an investment. Go. Don't think twice about it. And listen to this. This is important. Your feelings are not designed to tell you the truth. Your feelings are designed to keep you safe given a set of circumstances. So this morning, I did not feel like writing in a journal. I didn't. But I did it because I'm a better husband and a better dad on the other side of that. When I get all this crap out of my head and out of my body and onto a piece of paper, I will not feel like working out when I get home tonight. I don't feel like it at all. I'm tired. It's the weekend and I'm going to go do it because I promised myself I would. And it makes me a better fill

in the blank, fill in the blank. So your feelings, I feel like I want to quit. Cool. I get that. I'm going to acknowledge those feelings. That's real. And then I'm going to keep going. And I feel like I'm wasting money. Cool. Your body grew up poor. It put a GPS pin in poverty. It put a GPS pin and stopped spending money on quote unquote, you getting well. Cool. I feel that. And I'm going to go anyway, because I'm going to get well. I'm worth being well. That's a good word, John. And tactically, Shelly, adding this as a line item in your every dollar budget that says Shelly's therapy. And then, you know, what's going to happen is December, it's going to feel like, oh gosh, that $300 came out for those sessions.

Then January, it's like, oh yeah, we have that in the budget. Then February, it's like, oh yeah, we've had this in the budget. And all of a sudden it becomes normal, especially as you excel through the baby steps and you get to a different place financially. There's expenses in my wife and I's budget that, you know, 23-year-old George would be like, whoa, that guy's blowing some money into us. It's, no, we're buying ourselves peace. We're buying our time back with some of these things. And it's, therapy is not a luxury. It is financially for people who can't afford it, but it's not a frivolous expense. It's definitely worth being well. And John talks about this in his new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, which I'd love to send Shelly a copy of that, John, if you don't mind.

Absolutely. And stay on the line. I'm going to hook you up with three free months of better help with my friends there, okay? I'm going to take that excuse away. Three free months of better help. But if you and your therapist decide, hey, it's probably best if you keep going, I want you to keep going and stay plugged in. That's very kind of you, John. You wield that kind of power here on the Ramsey Show. I don't. I've got an extraordinary partner with BetterHelp, and they really,

really care about people getting well. And so it's their generosity, not mine. That's very kind. So hang on the line, Shelley. We're going to send you a copy of Dr. John Deloney's bestselling book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, and three months of better help on us to get you started on this path. We are cheering you on, and I'm proud of you. That's not an easy thing to call into a national radio show and put that all out there and go, I'm struggling with this. I want to get the help I need. And I know a lot of people are benefiting from this call who probably need to take that next step too, John. Dude, I remember being a 6'2", 195-pound Texas male sitting at my kitchen table while my little boy was asleep and my wife was asleep in the other room weeping at my kitchen table because I knew I had to.

And I also felt like such a wimp and such a weakling and such a coward and all those things. And I went, and it's changed everything. Go get the help and care that you need. Thanks so much for the call, Shelly. More of your calls coming up. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll be right back.

888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney, joined here by my good friend George Camel. Let's go out to Alexis in Phoenix. Hey, Alexis, what's happening? Hi, can you hear me okay? Absolutely. What's up?

All right, so I'm 15. My mom just told me this morning that my parents have had to dip into their savings the past two months. Okay. My mom has stayed home with us and homeschooled us for 10 years, and she's going to have to get a part-time job. And I'm just wondering how my savings and how me saving for my future fits into that because I kind of feel guilty having extra money every month or having my own money putting into savings while they're

struggling. Yeah. Man, they are lucky. They are, they are lucky to have you as their kid. You are the oldest 15 year old I've ever talked to. It's fantastic. Okay. I'm going to tell you something really hard to internalize and you're going to hear these words and your guts aren't going to believe me. Okay? Okay. It's not your job. You are doing an incredible job planning for your future. And your parents have made grown-up choices.

Like whatever job your dad is working at is a choice he's chosen to work. And that's his trade. That's what he does. And your mom made a choice. We want to work and that's his trade that's what he does and your mom made a choice we want to stay at home that was a collective values-based decision that they made and then there was a math problem they ran into and like adults all over the country brave adults are saying okay this is what we wanted this isn't going to be this isn't the way this is going to work out for a while so we're going to have to alter our plan and do something else.

And so I'm actually proud of your parents for doing that. It's awesome. It's just going to look different. Okay. The greatest thing you can do for your parents is you take care of your business in the classroom. You take care of your business like as a teammate around that house, right? Make sure you take care of your responsibilities with excellence, which I know you do. And be sober minded, be intentional about planning for the future, what college is going to look like, what it's going to cost, where are you going to

go? What are you going to study? All of those things. That's the way you support your parents, not by taking your part-time job money and trying to keep your lights on. Now, there may come a moment when they ask you for that. It doesn't sound like that's what's happening. It sounds like your mom set you down like a good mom. She actually sounds incredible. Set you down and said, hey, we have some hard realities that we're dealing with and so I'm going to have to go to work and so home's going to look a little different for a season. Is that what happened? Yeah. I applaud her because a lot of parents would try to hide that. They'd be ashamed of that.

They'd be scared of that. And your mom did the right thing. She sat down and told you a hard truth. And that also means that she trusts you. Does that make sense? That she thinks you're wise enough to hear that, that scary stuff. Okay? But keep that in your mind and in your heart. It's not your job.

Okay? Yeah. Do you believe me? Yes. No, you don't. But it's okay. It's okay if you don't. So there are some tactical things you can do, Alexis.

One is, you know, you're 15. You're starting to enter that age where you can go get some part-time jobs. And one thing you can do is instead of going, hey, Mom and Dad, I want the new iPhone. It's $1,200. You can go work for that and save for that that and you cover your own expenses of things that are kind of the luxuries in your life you don't have to go pay the water bill but you can cover you know going out to the movies with your friends it sounds like you already do that yeah oh yeah yeah i just i wasn't sure if that was okay for me to continue to have like

absolutely i think that's great yes flexing that muscle 50. I wish John and I were that smart at 15. Yes. Goodness gracious. I didn't know what day it was when I was 15. And yes, you, listen, we often think that pain is some zero or that grief is some zero. And what that means is that George loses his job and I get a flat tire and I am upset. I'm whining about my flat tire and George goes, oh yeah, you think that's bad. I lost my, listen, grief and sadness aren't some zero. You can go have joy while your parents are making life adjustments at their home because one doesn't, you not, you just sitting at home and not having fun and not hanging out with your friends and spending your spending money by going to the movies

you doing that doesn't help the the bills get paid you see what i'm saying yeah it's just you joining into their misery into something that you didn't cause it's not your job okay yeah and so yeah go have fun with your friends. I love what George says. If you know, hey, now's not the time to go ask for the iPhone whatever, 13 or 17 or whatever number they're up to now. That's cool. That's fine. But do go have joy in your life, okay?

I'm going to do one better for you, Alexis. I'm going to gift you Financial Peace University. And one thing you can do is you're casually hanging out living room watching Financial Peace University and you go, hey, mom, dad, if you want to join me, I'm learning so much in this. If you guys want to join me, I think it'd be really cool for us to go through it together. And not from a place of shame of like, hey, mom, I need you to tell me you guys are broke. This might be good for you. I called a couple of idiots on the radio. I got you solved. Telling the person who wiped your butt seven years ago this. So just go watch it yourself. And I think you modeling that might inspire them, motivate them,

give them some hope. And when the time comes, you're going to get older and they're going to be asking you for advice. That's right. And so it's a great place to be. So hang on the line. Jen is going to pick up. We're going to gift you Financial Peace University for one year as well as every dollar premium. And you can get on a budget at 15, and they might see you doing that and go, what was that you did? That's pretty cool. Go ahead and send her Anthony O'Neill's debt-free degree too, Jenna. And she can start reading on now, thinking about what college is going to look like in the future.

All right, let's go to Vanessa in Charleston. Hey, Vanessa, what's going on? Can you hear me? Yes, ma'am. What's up? Okay, I'm so grateful to talk to you. Thank you. I'm struggling with some issues me? Yes, ma'am. What's up? Okay. I'm so grateful to talk to you. Thank you.

I'm struggling with some issues. All right. Bring it on. We are too. Okay. There's so many details. I'm going to try to keep it nice and tidy. Okay.

I'm 51 years old. I've dated a man for about 10 years. We've lived together. I'm wanting to end the relationship. Kind of my issue is when we met, I sold the house that I'd raised my kids in. And I had went through Dave Ramsey and I had cleared all my debts. So when we met, I was debt free and I had a little bit of money in the bank. About four years ago, we bought a house close to my daughter.

And it was real small. And then another house came up around daughter, and it was real small. And then another house came up around the corner, and it was in foreclosure. I got a decent deal on it, so I bought it. I own another house about 20 minutes away. And part of my issues are, number one, I'm wanting to end the relationship with my boyfriend. My other issue is I'm having some domestic issues with my daughter, My other issue is I'm having some domestic issues with my daughter, if you will,

and I think maybe some space between us would be good. So I have a total of four houses. What's your mortgage total on those four houses? I'm broke. When I leave the relationship, I'll have nothing

other than these houses and my income is his name on the deeds? no not on these so your name only is on all these deeds that's right so can you sell all four houses? yes I think it's time to start fresh

yeah so my issue with it is my daughter's having some issues. Is being broke and having all of your money tied up in these four houses going to help your daughter? No. No. No, I guess where I'm struggling with it is, you know what I mean, two of the houses are rented out. Do I sell the rentals and try to save the house that I'm in,

which is not necessarily desirable to me. It's the nicest of the houses, but it's nice to me because I'm close to my grandkids, but my daughter and I are having some issues trying to decide

whether or not to put space between us or what, you know what I mean? Or do I... Well, when are the leases up for the renters? When do I... The first of the year. Okay.

Then we say we're not renewing the lease. I'm selling the properties. Here's what I want you to do. Start thinking of it this way. You're trying to look at this as a math problem, as a mothering problem, as a mental health issue problem, as a relationship problem.

Whenever my life gets this chaotic, as a relationship problem. Whenever my life gets this chaotic, I'm going to clean up my environment and take as many variables off the table as possible. And right now you are leveraged to the gills in four houses that you can't afford and it doesn't sound like you even want them. And if I'm you, again, I would talk to an attorney before you start dividing all this up because he may be claims to this and that. I'm you, again, I would talk to an attorney before you start dividing all this up, because he may be claims to this and that. I'm going to take the variables that I can control off the table. I can't control the relationship mess. I can't control my daughter's situation. We're going to have to work through that. I can control how chaotic my life is trying to run

four households at the same time. I'm going to sell the houses and clear that debt. George, what do you think? Agreed. Awesome. All right, hey, that's the first hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you for listening. We'll be right back. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth,

do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend and one of America's favorite Johns, Dr. John Deloney. And we are here for you, America, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Maybe you need some advice, some motivation. Maybe you need to take that next step with that broken relationship, the toxic boss, the debt that's been hanging over your head for far too long, and you're just ready to make some changes and live a better, more peaceful life. That's what we're all about on this show. Mary

is going to kick us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Mary, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you doing today? Doing well. How are you? I'm going to be honest, I'm a little nervous and anxious right now. We got you, Mary. It's just us here. Just us girls. Let's talk. Okay. What's going on? So, I'm calling in because my husband is a gambling addict and has been since January of this year when it became legal in Ohio. It has caused the heaviest toll on our marriage, on our relationship, our family, and I'm at the point where I have tried many routes with this, trying to be very gracious on how I go about it,

trying to be respectful as a wife, trying to support his mistakes, but trying to get him the help he needs. And nothing is working. And at this point, he is very adamant about continuing to do it. And I'm at the point where I feel that I need to, you know, take my daughter and take a step away, not divorce, but maybe take some separation until he figures it out. But I honestly don't want to have to do that, but I don't know what else to do right now. What makes you think that, or what's happening that you feel like I need to get me and my daughter out of this to be safe? I think you're right. I think you're right by the way, but I want you to just articulate what something else is going on. Like what's happening in your home. It's just an extremely tense environment.

We argue all the time. Um, which, you know, we, we, go ahead. Are you arguing because he's losing thousands and thousands of dollars or

arguing because he just glued to his phone all the time and he's angry because he wins and loses or as most, as is most of the time, the gambling behavior and the addictive actions that are like this compulsion is indicative of a much bigger issue in your marriage. Y'all don't talk to each other. You don't listen to each other. There's no intimacy. It's just become a mess. And gambling is the way he's choosing to handle that global dysfunction inside

your home. Correct. Okay. All of it? Yes. And I mean, the line is the biggest thing as well. So anytime somebody has a boundary inside of a marriage that they're thinking about laying down, right? Like this is my final straw. This is my line that I won't cross anymore. I always want to encourage them to have an or what statement because the person they laid the boundary down is going to want to know. Can you give an example? Yes. So you need to have an or what statement. You sit down with your husband and say, if we don't go to marriage

counseling by the end of this weekend, or if we don't have a date on the calendar by the end of this weekend and it's next week, and if you don't go, here's the or what. Me and our daughter are moving out. Period. You just have to be prepared for the or what because the or what comes with a lot of complexity. And I know it sounds super cool to be prepared for the or what, because the or what comes with a lot of complexity. And I know it sounds super cool to be like, you can Google this and on these stupid websites, they're going to tell you like, just leave him. You don't deserve. That sounds all well and good. But there is a significant financial complexity to this, right? Yeah. And I mean, I really don't want it to have to come to that.

Of course not. I still love him and we have a family together. Of course you do. I want you to keep this front and center as you move forward. You are simply doing

what you have to do to keep your family safe and responding to somebody that's thrown a grenade inside your home. Yeah. You're not the one doing this and he will paint you

as the villain here. He has. That's right. Because he gets to do whatever he wants to do, whenever he wants to do it, with quote-unquote y'all's money, and he can... You're just whining and nagging and complaining and on...

Online gambling, online sports gambling is destroying individuals and homes across this country period and dude i always watch the fights i love watching the games i love having some fun with my friends so it's not that i'm like this fuddy-duddy that sits in my house and plays bingo all the time i love i love the whole environment and yet this is destroying people. Yeah. And you've told him that, and he has told you,

I don't really care what you have to say. I'm going to keep doing whatever I want to do. Yeah. And, I mean, it's been the past few months, I guess to give just some quick context, so pretty much in a lump sum, he has spent between $30,000 to $40,000. Has he lost it? Oh yeah. Like he's lost all of it. There's no, I mean, he's won a couple thousand here or a hundred here, things like that. But he's all together since the beginning of this year. It's been around $40,000.

And can we be honest? This is what you know about. I promise there's more. This is all I know about. That's right. I promise there's more. Let me ask you a very tactical question. If you move out, do you have a job?

Do you have money? Yes, I have a job. But we, so he's in nursing school. Hold on, hold on, hold on. He is making choices. You're keeping yourself safe. If he's in nursing school, then he gets to take care of his, pay for nursing. He gets to make all those choices on his own.

You need to have your four walls covered for you and your baby if you choose to separate. Do you have your own bank account? Yes, I actually did. Probably about two months ago at this point, that was one of the steps I took was separating our finances. We never recommend that except in this moment. Does your check direct deposit into that account? It's still in our joint. And I will just say, so pretty much because we don't have any financial security right now. So with my job

and his job we get paid each week so i get paid and then he gets paid the following and so on so forth so with our money that we have right now i want to take money from like my check and put it into ours but then all the bills come out from our joint because we haven't switched any of those yet so all of like pretty much each paycheck that we get each week is going towards bills, going towards groceries and gas, and then there's nothing left over. I want you to get with a friend and I want you to map this out. Okay. Okay.

And you're going to have to move your direct deposit to your new account. And you know as well as I do, he's going to hit the roof, isn't he? Yeah, he already did when I, I mean, everything I do, he does. That's right. Are you safe? Yes. Okay. He's not going to hit you or hurt you?

No. Okay. So we are getting with a friend and we're going to map this out. What's an apartment going to cost? What are the light and water bill going to cost? And we're going to get all this mapped out and lined out. We're going to make sure that our check can cover that. And you might need to get some new hours and all that kind to get all this mapped out and lined out. We're going to make sure that our check can cover that, and you might need to get some new hours and all that

kind of stuff, childcare, all those things. And then we're going to sit down and be very articulate and clear about my or what statement. This changes, or here's what I'm going to do. You can't control anything he does. You can only control what you do. I hate that you're in this situation. Stay on the line. We're going to hook you up with every dollar so you can begin to control what you can control if and when you have to step away. We'll be right back. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up,

never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on, Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey Trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your pocket and an asset towards turning you into a baby steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement.

NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney this hour. The number to call to ask your question is 888-825-5225.

Jane joins us up next in Lawton, Oklahoma. Jane, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? We're doing great. How can we help you today? Oh, okay. So this is tough. So I've been married about two years, and before we got married, I agreed to not sharing the bank account. I understood his reservations. I do have a full-time job. All right. And a couple of months ago, I thought, well, maybe I really do need to learn to manage my finances better because according to him, like I haven't proven that I know

how to manage money. And I started listening to the Dave Ramsey show because I thought that, you know, I do love the Ramsey Network, and I have realized that my problems are a lot more intense than just a financial disagreement or a communication issue. You know, he's gone half of the time with his job, and he doesn't leave. He will not give me money for groceries, any necessities. Anytime I bring that up, he tells me I need to manage my money better. Do you have a debit card? Do I have a debit card? How much money, control and access does he give you to money?

Oh, zero. So you can't spend a dime if you even wanted to? No, I mean, I have my paycheck, but that's it. Okay. And you're working full-time? Yes. Do you have any kids? I mean, I have one daughter. How old is she? Is he the dad? No. Okay. Are you safe? Yeah. I mean, physically, yes. All right, I'm going to trust you.

The data suggests that guys who act like this are physically abusive as well. And I would even go as far to say maybe hasn't thrown a punch, but has created a world that is so unsafe for your body that it shuts itself down and tries to get small because there's a bear living in that house. Yeah. I mean, I think I've been through some pretty traumatic things in my life, but like on paper, that would be way worse than this. I've never had a panic attack until recently. So I know like full on, like panic attack. Okay. And I know, like I'm educated enough to know that like your body starts to do things when. It's trying to get your attention. Yeah.

Right. So what's keeping you there? Well, I mean, I do. I mean, I did make a vow to him. And I take that seriously. But, I mean, I have a couple of thousand dollars in debt now that I didn't have before because I have to put gas and groceries on credit cards sometimes. And he makes about four times what I do. Sure. I don't want to weave this back and forth into a finance situation than out of a finance situation. You're in an extremely toxic environment. You're in an unsafe environment.

And if we haven't crossed lines yet, we will at some point. And even the way you started the call, he told me I haven't proven my, like, just those words alone let me know this is very much a father-daughter relationship. Far, far more than it's a husband and wife creating a future together. Right. I mean, he does control everything. I mean, not just money. And if something's not done the way he wants it done, I mean, he will threaten to put me out.

Gosh. I mean, trivial stuff like that's not being made. Besides the vow, which, I mean mean this doesn't sound like a marriage hearing you say this out loud just sounds like toxic roommate situation what is he actually signing up for when he signed up for this marriage I had recently

asked him that and I mean he was like well I married you because I love you but I mean is this love? I don't think love should feel like this. It does not. This is control. This is power.

And I'm speaking on behalf of John Deloney, not on behalf of the Ramsey Network here. So I take a much broader view of the word fidelity. I think you can cheat on somebody and never sleep with another person. But if you steal from somebody their dignity and their autonomy and their ability to have feelings and thoughts and a partnership in a relationship, that's not fidelity. Right? You are cheating that person out of their life. You are cheating that person out of their life. You're cheating that person out of connection, okay?

And so I take a much broader view. And some people are very narrow, like you gotta have sex with somebody else, otherwise it's not cheating. I have a much broader view than that. But I'm listening to my sister Jane here and you're slowly drowning and you know it and your body's trying to get your attention. And so I guess what George and I are asking you, two guys who love our wives and we're

not perfect, man, but I'm trying to sit across the table from you and say, what are you doing? Why are you here? Why are you staying? What's the hook? You got a couple thousand dollars, who cares? You're too tough and resilient and brave. you'll have that paid off in no time like something else is here like what's the hook why are we staying i mean i don't know that i could well i mean some of it's like i want to say that like i i gave my all you and i don't think you're being allowed to give your all because the person you're connected to is saying, you can take your all and flush it down the toilet. Go make the bed the right way.

Yeah. Are you scared to leave? What would be the repercussions if you said, hey, I'm out? I mean, I mean, I just want a stable life for my child this is not it your child is absorbing top to bottom

what love looks like what marriage looks like what equality looks like, absorbing it into their DNA. Now, I will never, unless somebody is being physically assaulted, I'm not going to tell somebody they need to leave their marriage. I've often told people, you need to get to where you are safe, and we may need to take a structured 30-day break. I'm going to go move in with a friend for 30 days.

We're going to be very clear on when I come, when I come back, what the conditions of coming back are going to be. But, um, and again, you're, you're not, you got to make this choice. You're, you're an adult. I don't see that going over well. Do you see your current situation going over well? Well, I mean, I probably wouldn't have reached out to you guys. I know, I know, I know. And I hope you hear that we love you. I'm worried about you. Neither options are easy. Let's just make that very clear. Staying is really hard, and leaving is going to be hard. But one leads you to where you're free,

and that your daughter's safe, you're safe and you can get to a better place financially instead of living in this prison. And we just want what's best for Jane. Yeah. I mean, I'm scared to make a decision. Yeah. And, um... Do you have people who, that you know and trust that can sit with you and hear the entirety of the story? Yeah, a little bit. Have you opened up? Do they know? Yeah. What do they tell you? To leave. Okay. If your friend was in the situation, what would you tell her? I mean, I never imagined myself in a situation. No, that's what makes these abusive situations so surreal, because it's like, there's no way that's happening.

I've heard that over and over, that there's no way this is happening to me. And it may even be, in your case, happening again, right? Yeah. I've never experienced anything quite like this. But I'm just scared of, I'm really just, I don't know what, I mean, I know what I need to do. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to reach out to a couple of friends. To reach out to a local counselor in your community.

Not to go, quote unquote, get well right now. But you need someone that's going to walk alongside you as you have a very challenging road ahead of you, whether you stay and try to figure out how to make this thing work or you decide to create an alternative life outside of this relationship. But listen, you're worth being well. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you,

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CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budgets at chministries.org slash budgets. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, host of the Entree Leadership Podcast, the fine print and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour. Joined this hour by the host of the Dr. John Deloney Show. You guessed it, America. It's Dr. John Deloney himself. But how funny would it be if it was a different host? If it was Dan. Hey, my name is Dan. I'm hosting the Dr. John Deloney show. It's kind of like us, me and you hosting the Ramsey show. That's true. At least Dave took his first name off of it to make it less awkward

for all of us. It's great. Well, we are here for you, America, taking your calls about life, money, mental health, relationships, career. It all kind of blends into one blurry thing we call life, and we're here to help you take the next step and help you make a breakthrough in that. So 888-825-5225 is the number to call. Renee joins us up next in Orlando, Florida. Renee, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you. So just a little bit of backstory. My husband and I were in our mid-30s and we both work in frontline positions at one of the major theme parks in the area.

And we also have a six-year-old son. And for the last three months, we've been living in a hotel because we could no longer afford our rent in our apartment, and financially we are just not in a place to buy a house. We've been able to secure an apartment, but the real issue is we ended up falling for, as you would say, George, the stupid tax of getting into payday loans and installment loans. And now we're like $25,000 in debt and we make like 75,000 a year. But between the weekly payments on those loans and our regular bills, we're suffocating under, under our debt and we don't know how to get out of it. Um, we were just turned on to your show,

um, the Ramsey, uh, solutions, maybe like a couple of days ago from a coworker of mine, and we've found hope in it so far, but we've been hearing stuff on the show, like baby steps and emergency funding. We don't know what any of that stuff is. And we just, we don't know how to start. We don't know where to go from here. We don't have anything in savings. We don't have anything for retirement. We don't have anything for our kids. And we would like to have more children someday

and set up a stable future and a stable home life for them eventually. So sorry to hear all about this for me. Gosh. Are you ready? Yes. Like when George starts talking here, like you have to say you're ready. And what that means is you're ready to quit your jobs if you have to. You're ready to move out of the area if you have to. You're ready to change everything. Are you in? Yes, we're ready. My husband and I, we've already started looking into, um, schooling to, um, get different jobs. Um, you know, stay in the jobs that we have right now so that we can fund

the schooling that we're going to. Cause, um, the company we're at, um, they will fund higher education for free. Um, and my husband, he currently has a bachelor's in psychology and wants to go to school for a master's of social work to be a guidance counselor. And I'm looking into real estate school because I don't have any desire to go to college per se and throw money into a system where there's no guarantee of me getting a job in that field. Okay. So you're ready. So George is going to walk you through it. So I love that you guys want to further your education and get out of this hole, but right now we're in survival mode.

And so I'm not thinking about school. I'm thinking about how are we going to put food on the table and stop living in hotels and make sure our six-year-old is taken care of. And so A1 is to stop going into debt. Are you guys done there? Are you still having to take out these payday loans to get by? No, we're done. We did take out some credit cards a couple months ago,

but we have since stopped using them. Cut them up. Cut them up. Can you physically cut them up? Yes. Cut them up. And throw them away so you don't know the numbers anymore. Okay. And then we're going to pay those off completely and we're going to close all of those accounts. And we're not going to look at credit card companies and payday loans as a blessing to get us through next week. They are snakes. Okay. They prey on people in your situation, okay, who are working their butts

off to try to make it work and want the best for their little kid and just can't make the ends meet. They prey on you. They give me and George, they give us free flights and you pay for them, okay? They are not your friend. So once we're saying no to debt, let me ask the interest rate on these payday loans because I think it's going to make us all throw up. Too much to say. Is it in the hundreds? Probably. I mean, we're spending $1,200 a month on these payday loans.

Alone. What other debt do you have? We both have car payments and I've looked into selling them off and we are basically upside down on both of our cars because again, it was a buy here, pay here kind of place. So astronomical interest rates. Okay. What other, you have two car loans, you've got the payday loans, you have the credit cards. What else? The credit cards we're actually not in debt on. We make those payments. Zero balance.

Okay. We just stopped using them. But we also have medical bills and collections. I have maybe $1,200 in medical bills and collections, and my husband has $1,400 in collections. Okay. So what we're going to do is A1 is we're not going into more debt. That's baby step zero. We're going to stop the bleeding. Your next step is to scrape together $1,000 as quickly as possible. That's going to go into a savings account. I know that sounds like, how are we

going to do that? We have no margin. And this is where we go. Obviously, you guys aren't living lavishly. All of your money is going to debt. We haven't lived lavishly in a long time. So right now, your expenses... I haven't gotten a haircut in a year. Your expenses are your four walls, is what I'm guessing. Food, utilities, housing, transportation. Yeah, basically. And then anything my kid needs. Okay. Our kid needs. This might mean that we are working 60, 70 hour weeks and we're trading spots to take care of the six-year-old for a few weeks just so we can get out from being underwater. Let's tell her what that, like,

that means he, your husband gets off of work and he doesn't come home. Yeah, that's what we've been doing. My husband's been doing double shifts. Good. double shifts six or seven days a week because he can. My role at this theme park, they don't allow overtime. Have you talked to your employer, your leaders there, and explained what's going on? Yeah. Could they put you up in some of their housing on the property temporarily? They don't have it. I mean, they have it for the college kids, but not for actual...

Do you have somebody who could watch your kid for you? We will now because, like, our closest family is three hours away. But we recently acquired an apartment, thank God, in a complex that's an hour away from work, but we actually have friends that live in the complex that would be willing to watch our son from time to time. Well, it might be for 30 days you ask them, tell them, hey, we're in a mess,

and the moment you get off, you're going straight to drive Uber or deliver Uber Eats or deliver Instacart. And all we're trying to do is get $1,000, get $1,000. You are going to get $1,000 in your account, and you're going to take a deep breath for the first time in a long time. Okay? And you're going to do whatever it takes. Even if it's I'm staying with friends, I'm going to get plugged into a local church and do whatever you can to get there. Baby step two is listing all the debts, smallest to largest, regardless of the interest rate and attacking

it with a vengeance with all the margin you can muster up with all the income you can create with all the expenses you can shave down. And it might be hard at first, but when you knock out that first debt, you are going to be on cloud nine and you're going to feel like, oh my gosh, we can do this thing. And you're going to knock out the next debt and the next debt. And what does that do? It frees up the payments on those, now giving you a bigger snowball to keep rolling. And that's called the debt snowball method. Okay. And once you do that over the next, you know, it may, what's the total amount of debt you guys have? I would say between 25 and $30,000. You guys can do this. Easy. You make $75,000.

You got $25,000 to pay off. We've heard much smaller incomes with much bigger numbers, and they were able to do it. So I want you, the key to all of this is just believing that you can do it. And we're going to help you and walk with you by giving you one year of Financial Peace University. Watch all nine lessons with your husband to get fired up, to give you knowledge, to give you motivation. We're going to give you one year of every dollar premium to get on a written plan, a budget every single week.

You're tracking every expense, making every dollar stretch as far as it can go. And I want you to call us back when you're debt free and share your story because it's going to give so many other people out there hope who didn't think it was possible for them. Hang on the line. Jen is going to pick up. We are rooting for you. We are in your corner. Please call us back if we can help in any other way. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George. Sketchy and never trust them. And that's why we recommend Delete Me. They help with that. Yeah, they do. Delete Me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites.

And it is an incredible service that everyone needs. And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours

they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. I love these reports. So far, get this, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites, and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it. I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. It's amazing. So again, that's joindel.me.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. It's amazing. So again, that's joindelete.me.com slash Ramsey.

Make sure to check it out, you guys. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. If you're a fan of this show, be sure to check out my friend, Dr. John Deloney's show. It's on YouTube and podcast, and he does it right next door to the studio. And it's a real good one. And if you want want more from me which is a rare small group of people

you can check out smart money happy hour podcast i have with rachel cruz that's real fun and then a brand new youtube channel where i'm making hopefully fun entertaining personal finance videos breaking down all the traps and trends to help you guys so you're blown by me numbers wise well i'm doing it man i think it's because I went all in. I'm a YouTuber, like a true YouTuber. Yeah, you're like a YouTube native. Quick edits, highly produced, a lot of pop culture and memes,

you know, less sad calls that are people in really tough situations. So I have that going for me. And they're short. Well, it's crushing, dude. You're long-winded. I'm short-winded. You told me not to talk about your height on the air anymore, so I won't.

Leave it alone, John. All right. Let's go to the phones. Caleb is up next in Chattanooga, Tennessee. Caleb, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. What's going on?

Well, I'm having some financial struggles with my girlfriend. Really, like, I'm doing all right myself. We have a separate bank account. I've never really thought of combining them or anything, but she just hasn't been handling her finances very well, and it's kind of putting a real strain on our relationship. In what way? What's your involvement with her money?

She hasn't been able to help out with any of the bills. We live together. Ah, there it is. Okay. So a lot of combined bills. She can't pay the bills? No. She can hardly even pay her own bills.

Why? Is she working full time? Yes and no. She just recently relocated. Okay. And that was the issue. Like she took a job that didn't really pan out. And so for about a month or two there,

she really didn't have the income coming in. Okay. And on top of that, she didn't really have any money saved up to fall back on, so she was putting stuff on credit cards. So are you covering all the bills right now? Yeah, like all of the household bills. Caleb, is the problem financial

or is the problem you're growing increasingly, disgusted is probably a strong word, but you're growing increasingly frustrated by the character of the person you're trying to play house with? Yeah, I mean. Are you starting to believe like, but you're growing increasingly frustrated by the character of the person you're trying to play house with. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to,

like, are you starting to believe, like, I don't know if I want to be married to someone who rolls like this. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head right there.

Okay. Because here's the deal. One, George and I are both going to tell you if, if you're not married and we can say there's a moral issue, fine, but there's a legal issue. If you're not married, paying each other's bills, playing house, paying each other's bills, it just makes for a mess, dude. If you own a house together, the whole thing is just so complex. And so we would tell you, man, if you're going to play house, get married and because at least there is some legal

protection as you separate things out if things go sideways if you're just dating it just turns into world war three and four and five but beyond that man both george and i are married we both are all in on on the woman that we are with and if there's a season where we got to do extra that's what i mean there's no problem there that doesn't seem to be your issue that seems to be like you're just getting increasingly frustrated that this is who i'm dating this is like come on and she's just like now you got it is that right yeah i mean that's definitely you're going down the right hole there. I mean, what kind of frustrates me is I feel like a pressure. Like she wants our relationship to move to the next level.

What is the next level? You guys are already living together. That would be like marriage or kids. Ah. And I'm not comfortable doing that with her because of her finances. Have you told her that? Hey, hold on. It with her because of her finances. Have you told her that? Hey, hold on.

It's not because of her finances. It's because of her character. They are expressing themselves in her finances. Don't get those two screwed up because she's going to make you a bunch of promises and say, okay, well, I'll pay my credit card off and I'll go get another job. That's not going to cure the underlying, which is, eh, I want i don't have to participate in building make creating a home together and also in her defense ike y'all are kind of just make it up i mean you're just it's very wishy-washy and it's hard to it's hard to anchor into wishy-washy right right? Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Have you had a conversation

with her yet about all this? Yeah, I have, and it just ends in, like, arguments and yelling and stuff. I'm just kind of at my wit's end because even as we speak, like, she's getting, like, opening up

new credit card accounts and stuff like that. Have you said to her, being in debt scares me to death. And when you borrow money, I can't breathe. And moving forward in my home, the home that I want to raise kids in and build a family with, we are going to be people who don't borrow money. And so if that's the way you want to raise kids in and build a family with, we are going to be people who don't borrow money. And so if that's the way you want to get through your world, I love that you are opting out of relationship with me. Have you said that? No, I haven't. Have a backbone,

man. You got to stand up and speak your virtues out into the world because you're going to wake up three years from now. You're going to have two kids Because you're going to wake up three years from now, you're going to have two kids, you're going to be considering a wedding, and you are not even going to know what day it is. You're going to be so frustrated. Is that fair? Yeah.

I would never, and listen to me, don't go tell them, hey, I called these guys on the radio, they told me to dump your butt. That's not what we're saying at all. I'm telling you, the only thing in the world you can control is your thoughts and your actions.

So you go be a person of character and say exactly what you need and what you feel. And then she gets to opt into that and y'all create a life together or she gets to opt out of that and have a bunch of shiny plastic toys. That's it.

I know I made that sound real simple. I know it's way more complex than that but caleb this is this is eating you alive man this is turning into resentment this is turning into you feeling like you're enabling her poor decisions and if i'm in your shoes i just go this relationship isn't working our values are too dissimilar for this to work and i wish you the best and you know what that means? Someone's got to move out and it's going to get real awkward real quick.

Because your first thought is going to be like, I've been paying the bills. And she's going to say, bye, Felicia. And then the whole thing starts over. Then George and I high five

and we're like, told you so. But we won't do that. I know the next few steps are going to be real hard, but what's even harder is just sticking this out, hoping things change

and it just gets worse. And then you've got a lot of resentment and uh john deloney uh he quotes another super smart psychologist guy who said choose guilt over resentment yeah and you're gonna feel guilty you're gonna go ah she's already going through a tough time i can't believe i do this to her but man it's gonna choose that over hating the woman that you you love right or hating your mother-in-law or hating your dad like choose guilt choose the boundaries right um and it goes back to um i don't think i'm a lot of talked about it yet but i think i've talked about a little bit um it's a secret well it's just like i got a new book coming out and in the fall and but one of the discussions um comes from the great michael easter which like

you gotta it's hard it's life is hard if you are overweight by 100 pounds it's hard and it's so hard to lose 100 pounds so you're not toggling between a one's real easy and one's real hard my life is super simple if i'm 100 pounds overweight and my knees hurt my back hurts and i'm exhausted and it's it's that's not you're not choosing between a real fun time and a hard time losing weight they're both hard right now what he's choosing is nobody taught that dude how to say his needs out loud and nobody taught him how to build a sit down with somebody and build a picture of what marriage could look like for us and building a life and a home together. No one's done that. Doing that will be almost impossible. And living with somebody that you don't share their values

and they are just digging a hole that expect you to clean up, that's hard too. So it's not an easy, one's easy and one's hard. They're both hard. You got to just choose your heart, right? One's going to lead to freedom for you. What's the path? That's right. That's a good word. One path heads to freedom. Wishing you the best.

Choose your heart, man. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to all the folks in the booth keeping the show running. My co-host, Dr. John Deloney, and you, America, we'll be back with you before you know it. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You call in, we'll talk about your money, your life, your relationships, your emotional health, all of it right here in front of you on the show. Chelsea kicks us off this hour in Phoenix. Chelsea, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, George. Hi, Dr. John. Hey, how can we help today? Okay, so I'll just lay it out and I guess we can go from there. I'm 30. I am in about 102 to be exact K in debt. And I decided to not renew my lease last summer. I converted my car. So I'm living in my car full time. It was by choice, but now I feel like it's something I'm depending on to try to pay off debt.

And I'm pretty much, I feel like I keep making the same dead-end choices. I come from a family who all are in debt. No one's financial literate. And I really want to make that change for myself and not keep carrying that burden. But this is my first time really realizing that I need help, and I'm confused, don't know where to start, how to organize all of this so that I cannot run into this again. Do you have a support system at all, or are you all by yourself, hun? I'm by myself. I live in Phoenix. It's just me and my dog. I moved out here a couple years ago.

All of my family is back on the East Coast, and I'm just figuring it out. What is in Arizona? I originally came here for a job. I got laid off from that job, and thankfully, I did get another job three months later as of March 23. So I've been with them for about a year. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Yeah. Honey, you live on the street. Yeah.

What's in Arizona? This is not a life for you. Like, if you're my sister, if you're my friend, I don't want this for you. What's in Arizona? Nothing anymore since I'm not with that job. The current job I have now is remote. And I decided to do, like, you know, a little bit of travel and road trips and take advantage of that to kind of figure out the next step, really.

Okay. What is so so and tell me i'm not i'm not this isn't a judgment question this is just me asking what is so unsafe about going back to the west or the east coast and staying with a relative or a friend for six months to get your feet back under you a lot of trauma ptsd okay if it's abusive don't go back I'm just I'm just I'm wondering that's what I'm digging at so if there's if it's a mess don't go back there okay not safe yeah yes and no I'd rather I'm the type of person to figure it out on my own. I can move back into an apartment at least, but I figured that money could go towards debt instead.

I can't tell you how unsafe your position is right now. Yeah. You're living on the street. You've got to get yourself a place to stay. This is not a two-month plan. You're going to be living in your car for four or five years at this rate. Even if you apply for an emergency housing voucher there in Phoenix,

Arizona, you got to find a place where you can have four walls over your head. If you have to go to a shelter, go to a shelter. I want you to be safe. And the thought of my daughter spending the night month after month in a car on the side of the road in Phoenix, Arizona, when it's about to be 118 degrees every day, it's untenable. I can't even, my heart stops thinking about that. What kind of car is this?

Such a great question. It's like a mattress in the trunk situation. You said you converted it. Yeah, no, I converted the whole thing. It's a Kia Soul. And I originally I was around the country. I was exploring. I actually did get like a house sitting gig for the summer while I'm here so that I'm not in the heat. And then I was going to head back to the coast of California to continue like to travel. Right now is not our time to eat, pray, love, and travel. That's a distraction from facing your real life. Yeah.

And we need to clean up this debt before we go on another road trip. That means you're going to have to get some stability and get yourself a full-time job and two part-time jobs and pay this stuff off. And maybe you get a few good gals and you have a few roommates. You don't have to keep doing this on your own. So how much money do you make? 44 a year with my full-time job. And I've done some Ubering on the side. So that probably brings in about 15 to 20. Okay. Well,

Phoenix just moved all their Ubers to autonomous, didn't they? I'm not sure. A big chunk of them? I do the Uber Eats. I don't do the pickup people. Okay. So you're making about $60K, and you have $100K in debt. What kind of debt is all this? $38K is for a student loan.

Another $47K is another student loan. $17K is car, and the rest is credit card. Okay. What was your degree in? Communications, broadcast journalism. And what are you doing for work right now? HR. Okay. Would you want to be doing something closer to your field? Yes.

I think it's possible. I think you took whatever job was there, which is totally fine, but I wanted you to move into something that you're really passionate about because that's going to end up increasing your income over time and going to help you pay off this debt. Because right now, how much money can you throw at the debt every month between the payments and the extra? Maybe $1,000 or $2,000 a month. Have you done the math on that? It's 10 years, not including interest. $1,000 a month is 100 months for you to become debt-free. Yeah, I should be definitely doing way more. We need to be throwing more like $2,000 or $3,000 a month.

Okay. That's $33,000 a year. You're done in three years max. So that's where we need to figure out how to get that margin. If that means you move back with some family or friends or you get three roommates, you do that. But we can't keep living in this car. Is the car loan on this Kia? Yes.

I'm guessing you're underwater on this car. I doubt you're going to be able to sell it after you converted it like that very much underwater well you're going to debt snowball all this and pay off the smallest balance the largest that means splitting up all the student loans splitting up the credit cards and paying that off the smallest one first and if you're gonna if you're gonna keep living a nomadic life pick a place that's cheaper so you can get an apartment. Phoenix is incredibly expensive for somebody making $40,000 just trying to find two pennies to rub together. Move to Kansas.

Move to Nebraska. Move to somewhere that's cheaper to live. Yeah. And listen to me. You cannot outrun this debt. You can't pretend it never happened. And you can't just wander off, like, wanderlusted away. At some point, it's going to come for you.

And my fear is you're not going to listen to the thing George and I say. And you're going to look up in five years. And that $100,000 is going to be $175,000 with penalties and late fees. And they'll garnish your wages. They will come get their money. years and that 100 grand is going to be $175,000 with penalties and late fees. And they'll garnish your wages. They will come get their money. You're going to have to just stop and grow up and have a hard, hard couple of years. And then you're going to be free. And then if you want to drive around the country, drive around the country. I'm all for it, man. I'm a dreamer too, but man, you got to cut these chains. I was going to send you a book, but you don't have an address right now. So instead, hang on the line.

I'm going to get your email, and we'll send you the digital versions of Breaking Free from Broke, the e-book and the audio book. I hope it helps you get out of this cycle. You're going to break it. You're going to break the generational chains. Debt is not in the DNA. We checked. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back.

This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. We're talking money, mental health, marriage, life, whatever's going on in your life. Give us a shout. 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney, joined here by George the Great Camel. Wow. I forgot that was my middle name. It is. I love it.

The Great. That's what you've asked us to call you, so there you go. Self-proclaimed. Well, John, I'm on the internet, and I see this article, and it just, I thought, I like to grind your gears, and so I think this one might do that. I want to get your take on it. And here's the gist of the story. It's my hot take, as the kids say, right?

Yes. Please never use that term. You got it. We're done with that okay so this woman recently gives birth and her husband demands that she pay the entire hospital bill herself now there's more to the story they've been married seven years she just had her their first baby three months ago they split everything in their marriage 50 50 when it comes to finances and generally keep their money separate. And everything seemed to be going pretty well until they received a hospital bill for this birth. So here's the deal. She planned to give birth without any medication, but after 24 hours of labor, decided to do the epidural. And when the bill came, her husband

expected her to pay the entire eight grand bill herself. And when she asked why he said, you're the one who couldn't hold out for a few more hours and you jacked up the bill and I shouldn't have to pay for all of these extra requests. And then finally, if she wanted luxury, she should expect to pay for it. If you tried that on Sheila, what would happen?

What hell would break loose? Here's the thing. I wouldn't even be, I wouldn't know. You wouldn't get the sentence out. Because by the time those words left my mouth, I would already be at the gates. And I don't know which set of gates I would be at if I said something like this. Now, if you're wondering all the extra, you know, what jacked up this bill? Well, of course, the epidural, very expensive.

Lactation consultant, nursery fee, extra night extra night stay postpartum supplies any food she ate so all of that made the bill go up and so he goes well that was your decision so you should pay for that that's not coming out of my pile of the pot so she ended up paying the entire bill on her own and she's now wondering and questioning are her her feelings valid, John? Okay. So I had somebody call my show a few years ago and here's the question. She had a two-year-old and a seven-month-old and she was with her boyfriend and he let her know, I want to let you know that I'm now considering you for the role of my wife, but two things, you're going to have to a get my house back in order. Cause those places are wrecked. Like you're just not taking care of the house

and B you're going to have to get your body back because let's be honest, you let that sucker go. And when you get that back and she, and here's the deal, she was calling me to ask how she could be more disciplined. And I was like, Oh honey, like, Oh man, I've got a few friends that would not mind going back to jail what's his address all right so it's a it's a it's easy when you're when somebody is is so is gaslighting you so bad is is so out to lunch you think you're the crazy look in the mirror and be like oh it must clearly it's me. I'm the problem. It's not them. Yes. They've been very clear that it's not them. It's me.

I'm the problem. Yes. Wow. So this is an abusive relationship very clearly. But it's an insane relationship. But here's the thing. I do want to call out to, there's, I don't know,

10 million people listening right now. Half of you, and I know it's half of you because that's how much negative press we get. I'm never going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to share a checking account. I'm not going to share bills. We split this thing 50, 50. This is the end result of that. And if it's not, if you're like, no, no, no. I mean, I would help with the, with the baby. Where's your line, dude. When you set up a, my life and your life, and we're married under the same roof,

this is the root of that crap that happens, right? This is the end result down the road of people who don't say, hey, we're married, we're in, come hell or high water, we're both in on this deal. This is that bull crap like, no, sorry, bro, you should have just held out. Bro, somebody's driving a truck through you.

He's like, well, man, you should have just hung out, man. I a truck through you is like well man you should just should have just hung out man i don't know how this man is still alive truthfully what an idiot man so i don't know i mean truthfully i don't know if the marriage is going to survive no this is how it continues if this is the attitude towards it and we know that divorce and money fights are one of the leading causes uh money problems and money fights leading cause of divorce another a leading cause of divorce another leading cause of divorce makes sense when you look at being married to an idiot that's another one an absolute moron a poor choice was made at some point but we teach people that you should combine finances 100 when you get

married no earlier but as soon as you're married combined finances you're a team it's we it's not well that's your bill so well i'll cover. You cover the water. I got the food last month when we ate out. That's an insane way to live. If you wanted a roommate, don't get married. Is that simple? Yes. If you want to go back to being roommates, you can do that. And by the way, for the first time in a Ramsey show history, we're going to add a few other recommendations. Husbands, don't look at your wife and say an epidural is a luxury. You could have waited a few more hours. Don't ever say that ever. Never say that. Um, lactation consultant, not a luxury, not a luxury. Here's a, here's a thing, gentlemen, in case you don't know this babies and, uh, have to eat. They have

to eat. Um, here eat. Here's another one. Nursery fee so babies can stay in the room with you. Is it insane that hospitals charge that? Yes, it is. But I don't know. Throughout all of human history until about 60 years ago, babies always slept in the same room with their new parents. Like, dude, don't be insane.

Don't be, George, this gets me. Man. I told you it was going to grind your gears, and I was right. This is the opposite of hemorrhoids. This has got me so puckered up. I want to know this guy. I want to find this guy. Wow.

We went from visual to visceral. Thank you, John. I can't, I'm just trying to imagine how this would go in my house. And I just. It wouldn't. Here's what would happen. You and probably Dave and maybe Rachel, there'd be a couple of y'all at this desk, there'd be a box of tissues and you'd just be saying like, John's dead. John's dead. And he won't be doing the show anymore. He had a good life.

He had a good life, but man, he sure was stupid when it came to one of his children being born. Wow. All right. That's enough of that, John. Well, thanks for- I need some good news. Thanks for making my day. Let's see if Erica can help us out. Let's go to Erica in Cleveland, Ohio. What's up, Erica?

Yes. Save me. Save me. Hi, my name is Erica. I'm from Cleveland. How are you doing today, John and George? We're making it. We're making it.

Hey, we're kind of up against the clock, so hop right into your question. Okay. I was in an accident in January. The insurance company of the other person found me at fault and they sent it to the corrections for $5,000 and I was trying to figure out what

can I do because I don't even know where to begin. So you were in a wreck. You were at fault, and they had a $5,000 judgment against you, and I'm assuming you don't have $5,000 to pay? No. Okay. And it happened in January, and they've already sent it to collections?

Yeah, yes. They sent me a letter what um this week actually for collections already okay they sent me the letter for saying i was at fault last week and sent me the collections letter for collections this week it may not be collections yet it may just be like a they want payment like if they just now who just got your judgment yeah who yeah who wrote the letter uh i don't know it just said some kind of collection agency okay um i would call them back and i would be very direct with i just got this piece of paper that says i'm at fault i've had no time to review it i haven't had time for my attorney to review it. I just got this thing, and then all of a sudden, you guys are calling me for $5,000,

which I don't have right now. I'm going to have to make a reentrance. I'm going to have to call you back. And then you're going to have to sit down and come up with a plan for this $5,000. If there's a judgment, there's a judgment. Do you have any other debt? Yeah.

That's it. That's doing all in the's a judgment. Do you have any other debt? Yeah. That's it. That's student loans and a house note. Okay. And I don't really know how much my student loans are exactly. Well, we got some homework to do, Erica. Make sure, let's figure out exactly how much we owe. Let's list it all out and let's take care of this collections before it accrues any penalties or interest or fees.

But if you owe it, let's just make a plan to pay it. I'm going to send you Financial Peace University. It's going to walk you through our proven plan to get out of this mess and start building for the future instead. But it's five grand, and it feels like a lot right now. One day you're going to look back and go, that sucked. Remember that? Yes, but you've got to, got to, got to pay it. Don't ignore it because it's going to double and triple on you, and you're going to get in a bigger mess.

The only way out is to pay it off. That's right. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney this hour. And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Henry joins us in Chesapeake, Virginia, coming up next. Henry, what's going on? Hey, Ramsey team. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. What's going on?

So I recently completed your Foundations in Personal Finance homeschool curriculum. Yes. And I have a question about investments. Okay, hit me. How old are you? So I'm 16. Don't hit George. It's a whole thing. I'll go down easy. Yeah. All right. So specifically, my question is Pokemon cards.

My parents say that Pokemon cards don't have any value in them and that they won't make me any money. But it seems like every Pokemon card set from previous years has just been going up and up in price. For example, a box of Pokemon cards that were released in 2021 originally sold for $120. Now they sell for about $400. What are your thoughts, and are Pokemon cards good or not good investments? Great question. Very well worded, Henry, and I'm proud of you for going

through the curriculum. Did you learn anything in the curriculum about investing? Do you remember anything from that section? I learned that I should never invest in anything that I do not know about. That's good, and you seem to know a lot about Pokemon cards, that's for sure. Will you teach me something about Pokemon that I don't know? And this will be even what Pokemon is. That was a challenge because John knows everything. I don't know what Pokemon is, so tell me.

Well, Pokemon was originally released in the mid-90s in Japan, and its original name is Pocket Monsters. And it first used to be a game on the Game Boy called Pokemon Red and Blue. Dude, Henry, you're like a Pokemon scholar. This is amazing. And eventually it kind of evolved into Pokemon cards, which came out in Japan about 1997 and in America about 1999. This is what I grew up playing, John, was Game Boy, Pokemon, got the cards from my friends, and you got the packs for, you know, four or five bucks from the comic book store. That's so weird. I grew up dating and playing instruments.

Did you, though? I'm just, I don't know. Sure. Okay. All right, so George is going to teach us. So the thing, Henry, is there's a lot of collectibles out there and people can make money and you probably have seen youtubers like logan paul who are like i paid five million dollars for this super rare charge right that's the stuff that we see that we click on that we view the reality is most people it's like going to vegas it's like

the slot machine you're hoping that you get the pack with the right card, and all of a sudden you went, I spent $300 and my cards aren't worth nothing. Mm-hmm. And so the chances of you getting that card that you can then flip and make a whole bunch of money isn't worth the time. Now, if you wanted to do this beyond your normal investments with just your fun money and you're super into it,

you could do it. And I bet you would call back and you'd be like, hey, I have $7 million because I invested in Pokemon cards. And we'd all be like, what? This kid's crazy. And so I'm not saying that it can't be done. I don't want to shoot down your dreams. But the truth is, these collectibles, these commodities, they're just based on hype. And so Pokemania could end next year all of a sudden, because we all move on to something else versus something like the stock market which history has shown us will appreciate over time yes there'll be some volatility but over 50 years it's going to be a good investment we just don't

know that about pokemon cards now here's my challenge to your parents i think they're right i think george is right they're not great investment vehicles and also sometimes having a collectible that you're interested in is fun and you clearly have a lot of you know the history of Pokemon cards so is trading cards, getting new cards, going through the value

of them, is that fun for you? Is that exciting? Well it's exciting to open Pokemon card packs and see that these are pretty rare from the sets that they were released and going well this is like one of the rarest cards in the set yeah so i i don't want you to lose that joy for something that you're interested in that you think is fun i just don't want you to go into debt for it and I want you to not save up for college for it but man I want you to enjoy your life too all right and something's it's about the spirit of it right George yeah there's an

entrepreneurial spirit that you have Henry where you go I love something but I also want to see like could I make money from this and that's a great thing to feel inside you just want to do it the right way otherwise you're going to be chasing the next kind of get rich quick thing I'm going to buy this and hope because it's the same spirit that a lot of the crypto bros have, right? You know about cryptocurrency and they're going, oh, if we just get this one coin, it's going to be worth 10x a year from now. This is going to be the one. And so you're kind of hoping for the same thing with Pokemon cards that if I just buy the right pack, it's going to have the right collectible that one day will be worth something. So I would do it because you love it

and do it with your extra fun money, but I would not do it as part of your investing strategy. And George, let me, I'm going to ask you about this or tell you about this. I, this is 10, 12 years ago. I had just bought a house and then somebody else bought a house down the street and I was checking every house purchase to see what they were buying theirs for. And I was kind of doing my own comps in my house because I was a little bit, and I was trying to keep up with every sale and what are you listing it for? And I was talking to a finance buddy and he said something that was important for me. He said, cause I was telling him, Hey, I think I'm going to sell now because it's gone up this much in three months. I'm going to do this. And he said, hey, and here's the line he gave me. He said,

give your wife a home. He said, you're going to make money on your house over time, probably, maybe not, but probably. But man, if you ROI every single transaction in your life, you're going to make yourself nuts. And it was a call back to have a place where you can drop your shoulders, like a home, right? Follow good money principles, obviously, but we can get obsessed about things. And so I used to buy a guitar and then I would always like, how much does it cost? How much does it cost? And have I made any money? Now I buy a guitar because I like it and I want to play it. And I have a scenario in my head where I'm going to play it live. And if one day it's worth money, great. But I had the money. Now I saved up the money. I bought it. I like it. I

play it. And if it loses money, I still got the enjoyment out of it that I wanted. Right. And so I think with things like Pokemon cards, with some baseball cards, whatever thing you kind of into have a spirit of joy about it. And if it goes down in value, you still got, you still have the joy, but man, there's just, I think there's a few things. I think we over ROI everything in our culture and we over hack everything. And there's some things like a home. There's some things like strumming a guitar in your basement when your kids are asleep. There's something about, I don't know, writing in your favorite journal that are things that just bring you peace and they bring you joy and they bring you beauty, your life. Man, those are worth the expenditure

in and of themselves. And if they end up being worth money on the road, great, right? Yeah. You make a great point. There's a lot of things in our lives that we subconsciously make idols in our lives where we spend so much time in it, around it, that it takes over our brain. And so when crypto came about, my major issue with crypto was not that you're going to lose a bunch of money. That's a possibility. My issue with crypto was that it was 24-7, and you can just see on your app volatility all day long. And there was so many, there was new coins, there was community groups all about it,

and you could just have it consume your life. And that's why I joke that crypto is just, you know, Mary Kay for young men, because there was this obsessive nature, just like there is with multi-level marketing, where people were just, it took over their life. It became a personality trait. And that's where I go, let's draw a line here. It's great to enjoy something. It's not great to be consumed by it. That turns into an addiction. I love that. That's good. There's some wisdom for you, John. But I don't want to hurt Henry's dreams because this kid's amazing. He's going to go big places

and there's nothing wrong with using these Pokemon cards and having fun with it. Well, and I also think that's an important conversation to have with parents. So my son, he cleans out the horse stalls

of the people who live next to us on the ranch next to us. And he earns his own money. And he also mows our yard and I pay him for helping participate and mowing our place. And he earns his own money and then he'll want to spend it on something. And my first impulse is often, that's stupid. Or why would you want to spend it? And then I think, no, he's 13 this is when he's going to learn those lessons of value and what's important and what's not important so we're taking care of the giving we're taking care of the saving it's your money right and i think for parents it's good to teach them lessons but also let them learn oh i spent

25 on what right and man that wasn't worth it. Yeah. And learning that way is much healthier than being forced to never get to play a video game your whole life or never getting to buy some Pokemon cards. So I'm rooting for you, Henry. Keep us posted on how it goes, my friend. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day comes from James 4.14 14 why you do not even know what will happen tomorrow

what is your life you are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes very emo i love it in a turn of events jack black once said i'm fairly certain that yolo is just carpe diem for stupid people dude jack, Jack Black's incredible. Absolute genius. Hey, go back to that scripture of the day. Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while

and then vanishes. I promise that's from My Chemical Romance. I think they use that. I am fairly certain that's a lyric. So emo. We love to see it from James. Wow, maybe it's a real big fish yeah james just sitting in the poetry that's all awesome good stuff sitting in the corner writing

poetry about his dad cool man well let's brighten things up with our next caller it's jessica from raleigh north carolina jessica welcome to the show hi thank you what's going on so yeah so my husband and i are currently in baby Steps 4, 5, and 6. We just kind of made it there in the past couple of months. Congratulations. Can we cheer for you for a second? Way to go. Sure.

That's awesome. How much did you pay off? Thanks. I was about 24. Congrats. Way to go. That's awesome. Thanks. So my question is, I just also started

a new job in March and we have a 90 day waiting period before I can contribute to my 401k. And so I'm just kind of wondering in that waiting period, if it makes sense to just kind of work on five and six until I can start four, my husband's able to contribute to his, so right now he's, I think, contributing about four or five percent. But I'm just kind of trying to figure out what to do with the surplus in our budget. Could you contribute to an IRA? I could.

I just, I was waiting to figure out, like, more about what's a match and if there's a loss 401k before I put things in a different investment opportunity. Well, I think right now your best opportunity is the one in front of you, which would be probably a Roth IRA if you guys are underneath the income limits. I think we are actually above that. Okay. So you could do a backdoor Roth as well. Okay.

So that's an option for you where you fund the traditional with after-tax money and then convert it over. And so that would be a good option for you. Again, 90 days is not going to make or break your retirement. And so if you wanted to throw it into the college fund for those few months and front load that, that's fine. Or throw a little extra on the home. There's no like we're not legalistic around here going, well, you did it the wrong way, Jessica. You guys are doing great. And so if I were you and you wanted to follow the baby steps, I would allocate that money towards whatever investment I could.

And right now that would be an IRA. Okay, that's great. Thank you so much. Yeah, congratulations. And once you get that Roth 401k, you can do all 15% there. If there's good mutual fund options and low fees, that's an easy way to knock out your 15%. What's a low fee? Well, there's different expense ratios. I mean, I know what a low fee is, but... Comparatively to a Roth IRA, there can be different fees depending on what fund you're

investing in. It's generally like a 0.06%. Okay. They're not huge, they're 0.2%. But depending on what 401k you have and the IRA you have, it might be a wash in the end. All right, let's move on to Brian in Tampa. Brian, welcome to the show. Hey, gentlemen. Thank you so much for taking my call. I know you're up against it, so I'll try to be brief. What's going on? Yeah, so my fiance and I, we got engaged back in October and we found Ramsey a few weeks ago. So we've been diving in through the content and trying to watch all the YouTube content. We currently have $180,000 of debt, the majority of that being student loans, but we also have two cars. Her car is $23,300 as a 6% interest remaining balance, and my car is $12,500 remaining balance.

Our combined income before taxes is about $135,000. My question is if we should keep the cars. And then my second question is at what point during the baby steps should we start saving up for a wedding? Okay, so when is the wedding? We haven't set a date yet. I think we still just kind of want to work through our debt first. Whoa, so you want to wait until all the debt is paid off to get married?

Possibly, yeah. That feels like it's going to take a while. You're going to be engaged for five years? So where we're living right now, our rent is relatively low. It's about $1,000 a month. So I think our shovels are big enough to work. Oh, you guys are already living together?

Yes. Okay, that explains some of it. How much do you make? Together we make about $ before taxes okay can i how honest can i be with you medium or full full you promise promise because i already know y'all were just plugging along doing life and then you ran into these videos, and already the size and scope of the next few years has already been altered just because you ran into our crazy gang on YouTube, right? Yeah, definitely. But at the same time, we're also energized. That's awesome. So I'm going to make it a little bit worse, okay? The last 20 years of my life, the last 23 now, my life has been spent sitting with people when things have happened

that they did not see coming or they absolutely did not expect. Not a majority, but a huge chunk of those are the blind side when a fiance just bails. When a husband calls and says, I'm moving out. When a wife says, I found somebody else. And for you, where you're sitting, you are ironclad in your love. It's never going to happen to us. And what I want to tell you is my whole career has been based on, yeah, but sometimes it does. And I tell you that not to freak you out or to make you question that your fiance, but to tell you, if you spend the next three years, you paying off her debt or her paying off your debt, and then all of a sudden something happens. And let's say you all go in and pay off her student

loans. They're the smallest ones, smallest to largest. You pay off her student loans and then she leaves or you leave. You have just put all that money in and you have nothing to show for it. There's no recourse. There's no nothing. That's why we're pretty adamant. When you get married to somebody, there is a legal process for separating that marriage. There is not that same process when you're dating. So what I would tell you is, man, and this is just because I love you. I would tell you, I would not pay off my partner's debt until we are bound both spiritually and legally. That's why I would tell you I'd go down to the justice of the peace and get married. That's what I would do. Or we'd have a small wedding with some friends and we would throw

rice at each other and then call it good and plan a big, fun, dramatic celebration once we've paid off this $180,000. That's what I would do. If you ask me, like, hey, what would you actually do in your real life? That's what I would do in my real life. Or I would commit, hey, we're going to go in parallel. We're both going to watch FPU. We're going to do the baby steps, but I'm paying off my debt and you're paying off your debt. Because it's not our debt yet until we're legally bound up.

Okay, and let's say that we do go down to the courthouse and kind of do that legally. At that point, what would you think about the cars? I don't think the cars are the big issue. They're so small, man. You can pay them off and just keep them. Okay. But the cars aren't what's holding you guys back. It's those massive student loans. And like John was saying, don't combine incomes, don't combine debt. There's a lot of we conversation, and I know you guys are

living together already, but legally and financially, you need to keep everything separate until you're married. And the moment you get married, you put everything in a pot. There's not, hey, you pay the light bill and I'll pay this bill. No, we pay these bills because our money is combined and it's together. And that forces you guys to have conversations about who we are going to be as a married couple and the vision we have for the life we are building together for ourselves, our future, our legacy, our communities, our country, all that stuff, right? We're going to do that stuff together. But for now, we're doing separate debt snowballs. We're using your income to pay your debt, choosing her income to pay her debt, smallest to largest. And then we'll see what happens come wedding day. And if you want to cashflow a real small little thing, that's fine.

But I would not go spending 50 grand on a wedding in the next few years. Yeah. I'd get that student loans knocked out. I'd work a second job, a third job. Get that crap out of your life, man. Your whole life is being held up right now by those student loans. And you've got so much joy and excitement on the other end, man. I'll give you some silver lining. As a newlywed gift, we're going to give to you FPU, Financial Peace University. Go through it with your fiance as kind of a premarital counseling on the money side. And I hope that gives you guys some shared vision and excitement for the future. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to all the folks in the booth keeping the show

afloat. You, America. Until next time, spend wisely, save intentionally, and give generously. you you