The Ramsey Show - App - How Big Should My Nest Egg Be to Retire Early? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 11, 2018

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Marcello is with us in Los Angeles to start off this hour. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Marcello.

Thank you very much, Dave, for taking my call. Sure. My question is, you know, me and my wife, you know, we want to retire, you know, early. And we've been thinking about it the past year or so. And we looked at our finances, and, I mean, I think we're there. Okay.

Yeah. What does retire early mean? We're both 57, and basically, you know, retire and, you know, get to relax a little bit more, get to travel a little bit more, you know, that kind of thing. And, you know, do a little bit more that, you know, not your normal kind of work kind of thing. Okay. So what do you guys do for a living now? I'm a surgery tech, and my wife manages a dental office. Okay.

And so if you retired, would you both just quit completely? Yeah, that's what we talked about. Okay. So how much do you have in your nest egg? Right now, there's 900,000 in one in my present account at my work, and 200,000 in

an old account that I never rolled over. Did you say 200? 200,000. 200, okay. So that's a million one. Good. Yeah. My wife has like maybe 20,000 in uh an ira so she never had any benefits at work uh and the house is paid and uh that probably about uh less than 13 just some old credit cards were just hopefully by the end of this year will be paid off.

And what's your household income now? Right now it's about $120,000. $80,000 and $40,000. Okay. All right. Well, if you took all $1.1 million and invested it, it would have to make more than 10% to create the same income you've got now. Right?

Yes. 10% of 1.1 would be $110,000, right? Uh-huh. Okay. And you make $120,000 now, and so you'd be living on less than you make now in order to retire. And so the way I like to set it up is that your nest egg, whatever you're taking off of your nest egg,

you're not destroying the nest egg. You're only taking the eggs off. Don't touch the goose. Okay? So whatever income, in other words, whatever income the 1.1 will produce, you've got to live on that, and that way you can live forever financially. But every time you tear up some of that 1.1

you end up with less money and less money and less money to live on the next year in terms of income because let's say we spent 200,000 of it we've been on down to only 90,000 instead of 110,000 at 10 we'd be making 90,000 at 10 you follow me i'm just using that as round numbers because they work on the radio i follow but you, but, you know, I think me and my wife are planning to live on even a lot less. Okay, good. If you can live on less than $80,000, you can probably pull this off. Oh, wow.

We were just calculating, you know, maybe, you know, less around $60,000. Okay. Then you can probably, as long as it's invested in something that's making north of 10, and that would be good growth stock mutual funds. And so I'm 57. I'm 57. My personal portfolio, I'm the same age as you, my personal stock portfolio, I don't have any stocks, but my personal mutual fund portfolio is in growth, growth and income,

aggressive growth, and international. And that mix in good mutual funds outperforms the stock market every year. I buy mutual funds that beat the S&P, and they have outperformed considerably, usually 1% to 2% a year over the S&P. And the S&P last year did 19%. That's what the stock market did. But average over the past&P. Okay? And the S&P last year did 19%. That's what the stock market did. But average over the past many, many years, it's more like 11.5 or 12, depending on which

time frame you look at. And so if you can live on less than 10% and you're invested in the market to where it's making more than 10%, you can go on in perpetuation. Does that make sense? It makes a lot of sense, Dave. So sit down with your financial advisor and pick out, and let's arrange that portfolio so that it is doing that. Do you have any money in anything that is not retirement accounts?

There's about $20,000 in savings. Yeah, so you're going to take penalties on anything you take out before 59 1⁄2. Is that true? Yeah, so what do you got? You're going to take penalties on anything you take out before 59 1⁄2. Is that true? I thought maybe if I leave before my 59, well, I think if I leave work, you know, they give me this whole package thing, and I think it's got about $40,000 that they give me, you know, when I leave work. Okay, well, you've got to work out what's called the gap between now and 59 and a half and make sure that – because I don't want you taking money out of there at a 10% penalty plus your tax rate.

Okay. And I want you – because, again, we're trying to keep the goose healthy because we want these golden eggs to come for the rest of your life. Okay. You leave the – the goose is the 1.1. You leave the goose alone. You follow me? You see what I'm saying i i oh i mean loud and

clear and you as long as you leave the goose alone and even if you left him with a golden egg occasionally back there in the back it'd be okay you don't take them all out but but don't take more out than that over time now one year you may dip into it a little bit like last year it made 19 if another year it made five percent and you dipped into it a little bit but the 19 year put it back you follow me yeah yeah that's okay that's an okay plan too and that's how that's how i would set it up but i think you're there you're a millionaire congratulations you did it man thank you how much of this did you inherit? Zero. Okay. You know, me and my wife came here 30 years ago. What's the best household income year you've ever had?

Oh, probably about 670. Oh, best household, say 130. Never made over $130,000 a year. You're 57 years old. You have $1.1 million in your retirement accounts, and your house is paid for. You said you came here. Where did you come here from? We moved from New York to Los Angeles.

Oh, okay. We had nothing. Okay. Yeah, that's kind of like being an immigrant. All right. But you had nothing when you came there. We owed more on the car and, you know, a few credit card debts. And, you know, it's surprising that, you know, the last couple of years,

when we finally look at it, boy, you know, see what we got here. Yeah. And you were in your 20s when this adventure started. Oh, yes. So those of you that are 27 and you're listening, this guy's 57. He did this in 30 years. So you millennials that say that the great American dream is dead, you're wrong. Don't watch stupid YouTube videos that tell you that the wealth inequality is gone, that you can't do it.

This guy started from nothing. By the way, he's a very typical millionaire. Very typical. Thank you. Very typical. The vast majority of them made under $200,000. The vast majority of them are in their 50s. And the vast majority of them inherited no money.

So that's no mythology. Those are actual data points from the largest millionaire study ever done that Chris Hogan and our team just finished. So you're the man. Proud of you, sir. Very, very well done. Sit down with your advisor and work out the details. But you're there. You did it. You rang the bell. I'm proud of advisor and work out the details, but you're there. You did it.

You rang the bell. I'm proud of you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. For years, I refused to endorse any company that claimed to get people out of timeshares. I told my listeners it's a horrible product and that unfortunately they didn't have a lot of options. Then a few years ago, I sat down with Brandon Reed, the owner of Timeshare Exit Team. Brandon walked me through the Timeshare industry, and I learned that you can't sell them and you can't even give them away.

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Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. Site-wide savings are happening right now. Plus, take an additional 5% off at Blinds.com slash Ramsey. Blinds.com slash Ramsey. Angel is in Minnesota. If a person has never had debt, will they have a credit report? Could have. There's someone that could have reported you to the credit bureau or a file can be set up.

All they need is one piece of data to get excited and set up a file on you. The one piece of data could be a social security number. It could be an address. It could be a Social Security number. It could be an address. It could be a place of employment. And so someone, anyone that reports to the credit bureau could have established a file for you because it's not a – that's the weird thing that a lot of consumer advocates like myself and, for that matter, the government, has been concerned about is that FICO, Equifax, TransUnion, Experian, there's the three credit bureau, National Credit Bureau reports, reporting agencies, they gather data on you without your permission and sell it and make money on it. And, you know, that ought to be a little bit disconcerting. And then they turn around and make you happy that they did that because they turned around

and made the FICO score the way that you get to do anything in our culture. You know, people worship at the altar of the great FICO. But, you know, if you stop and think about people are upset about Facebook using data, your data, without your permission to do weird stuff, and selling that data, and setting up their algorithm in such a way that it's feeding to certain advertisers, people are all up in arms about that. They called a little what's-his-name before Congress over that, right? It's a kid's name that started that thing. I can't even remember now. But anyway, it doesn't matter. But, you know, Facebook, everybody's upset about Facebook, but nobody's thinking about

the credit bureau. The credit bureau is not a government institution. It's private business collecting data on you without your permission and profiting from it. And we've been doing it for 30, 40 years. Oh, and by the way, 52% of the credit bureau reports have errors in them. So not only do they collect data on you and profit from it, it's wrong. The data's wrong.

And they screw up your life in the process. And in order for you to get them to correct your data that they collected on you without your permission, you have to go through an unbelievable amount of hoops and get it all corrected. Nobody ever thinks about that this is just kind of like wrong, like morally wrong. You know, if I just came over to your house and started collecting stuff from you and sold it, I think people might get upset about that. And that's kind of what they're doing.

I mean, they're stealing your identity and using it for their benefit. I didn't offer them my social security number how is it that they got permission to use that without my permission i didn't give them my home address how is it that they got on there without my permission and oh by the way it's wrong did you ever think about that i mean if any anybody else did that they'd be a you know hammered under else did that, they'd be hammered under a spam law, or they'd be hammered under some kind of law that says you stole my identity and used it for your benefit. And so, yeah, can you tell I'm not real fond of this system?

The main reason I'm not real fond of this system is that it has become so closed-looped that it's made it to where your car insurance is more expensive without doing it. You can't borrow money without doing it. You can't rent an apartment without doing it. You can't get a cell phone without doing it. You can't rent a car without doing it. It's just a pain in the butt to not have a FICO score. Lots of people do it without any trouble.

If you got enough money, it doesn't matter. I got enough money. I just do whatever I want. I work around it. But when you're semi broke and you don't have a credit score it's it's bigger it's a bigger hassle than walking around the credit score it's almost like the mark of the beast you know or something i know i'm not saying that it's tongue-in-cheek for you theology people that are going into ape mode right now i mean you're going nuts but you know seriously there

was a thing that came out that they were going to, like, put an implant in your hand to scan instead of your credit card. Now, that one's a little theologically scary right there. And you have to have it to buy and sell goods. Have you ever read Revelations? Really? I mean, but I mean, I'm not going to get too freaky on you, but it's a little bit or well in if you think about it. More than a little bit. More than a little bit.

If you're upset about Facebook, maybe you ought to think about Experian than a little bit more than a little bit if you're upset about facebook maybe you ought to think about experian and fico and transunion and so on you know something to think about so there you go anyway yeah you probably do have a credit bureau report and you don't even know it you may not have a score because there may not have done any credit transactions by which you could be scored. And that would be, or if you haven't done any in a long time and you have no accounts open of any kind, you have a zero score. That's what I have. Proudly, my score is undeterminable. To which they sent me an email and asked if I was dead. I thought that

was a threat. Jason is in Nashville. Hey, Jason, how are you? Hey, Dave, I'm doing well. Pleasure to speak with you. You too. What's up? Well, I'm a relatively new listener. My wife introduced me to you maybe four or five months ago, and I've been feverishly working my way through your YouTube channel ever since. Well, thank you. And yeah, and I wanted to ask you a question around potentially refinancing my student loan. So I started 2018 off with $147,000, or excuse me, $137,000 in debt, and I'm down to 91. Good for you. Yeah, yeah. Trying to plug away. And the remaining $91,000 is actually in my father's name of the Parents Plus loan, and it's at 8.125% with a target payoff date of December 2019.

Why would it take so long? You paid off $47,000 since the first of the year. Yeah, so starting in August, my wife is going to be going to school full-time and not working, so I'm padding a bit extra. What does she make? Right now, she's somewhere around maybe $50 or $60. What do you make right now? My yearly this year will probably be somewhere around $150.

Okay, cool. Okay, so she's a fourth of your income, right? Right. You make $200 and she makes $50 of it, so your income is going to drop by 25% when she goes back to school. I assume you're paying cash for school. Correct. Okay, no more debt.

Do you have any other debt other than this student loan that we're talking about? No. Okay. There's no downside to refinancing it, but if we run this out and you said 18, so you're talking about 18 months on 90 grand, and so for nine months, you'll have 45,000 out would be the average. Does that sense right okay and so when you start talking about saving three or four percent on 40 grand for nine months it's not a lot of money 10 10 savings um you know well three is it it's 1200 bucks a year savings so for nine months you're saving like 900 bucks right so it's okay to do it it gets savings, so for nine months you're saving like $900. Right.

So it's okay to do it. It gets it out of your dad's name, which is probably a relationship issue, helps him out, and you get a lower interest rate. There's a lot of reasons to do it, but I don't want you to emotionally feel like you did anything because you didn't. Right. Mathematically, it's a biscuit. Yeah, that's fair enough. And I think maybe, too, it's a little scary to assume that kind of debt into my name, you know,

because I feel like I have so much life to live. Yeah. What do you do for a living? I'm in financial services. Good for you. Okay. And I'm assuming that your deal with your dad was that you would pay it. Correct, yeah. Okay. So you're going to your deal with your dad was that you would pay it. Correct, yeah.

Okay. So you're going to pay it either way. You've already assumed it morally. Right. It's just legally. And if you can drop the interest rate, that's fine. But the guys that are trained like you and me with a calculator, our brains work on math, and we try to solve some problems with math that are not math problems.

You've already solved the problem. You just forgot how you did it. You paid off $47,000 since the first year. That was not a math thing. That was an I'm pissed off at debt thing. That's how you did that. Well done. Well done. Did you know, statistically, when it comes to life insurance and protecting your family,

that women are more likely to be uninsured or underinsured than men? This doesn't make any sense. Women make up half the workforce, contribute mightily to family incomes, and in many cases are the breadwinners and take care of their families 24 hours a day. This is one of the most overlooked areas when it comes to financial planning. Maybe it's a relic of the past but a loss of income or the need to replace family care is equally important for women as it is for men. Single moms, working moms and stay-at-home moms all need term life insurance. Rates are actually lower for women which is why I send you to Zander Insurance.

They shop the top term life companies to find the lowest rates available. You can compare rates online at zander.com or call 800-356-4282. This is something every family has to deal with. That's zander.com or 800-356-4282. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Brian and Melissa are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Great, Dave. How are you? Awesome, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you guys live?

Currently, we actually live in Liberty Township, Ohio. And what is that near? Cincinnati area. Oh, okay. Very cool. Well, good to have you. Thank you. Thanks for visiting Nashville. And all the way down here to do your debt-free screen. Yes, sir.

Yeah, I love it. How much have you paid off? So we paid off $58,176. Good for you. And how long did that take? Also in that we cash flowed Brian's shoulder surgery from January of $6,800. Oh, whoa, ouch. That was an addition, yeah.

Okay. All right, cool. And how long did this take? Just shy of nine months. Wow, fast. And your range of income during that time? Well, that helped a little bit. We were at 144 to 174.

Oh, nice. Nice jump in nine months. What was the big raise from? A promotion. Ah, great. Yep, had an opportunity once we went through the process to take a new job opportunity, which led to a nice bump in salary. Love it.

Very good. What do you guys do for a living? I'm an industrial automation sales manager. And I'm a dental hygienist, and I also have a direct sales business. Very good. Good for you guys. So what kind of debt was the $58,000? Well, you'll love the first one.

We had a couch that we 0% financed. We had $2,000 left on that. We had two credit cards for $21,000, and we had a car, my car that I love, for $35,000. Oh, my car that I love. Did you sell that car you loved? No, sir. No, you paid it off. Yes, sir.

What kind of car is this? Cadillac SRX. Oh, nice. Very nice car. Good. Good. So you just rolled up your sleeves and said, we're getting after this. How long have you two been married?

13 years this year. So what happened nine months ago? So nine months ago so nine months ago two things happened the first one was um we had we were actually living outside of chicago at the time when we went through a lot of this and we had a 17 year old house that had 17 year old house issues so the windows were starting to go um and we had just got um a quote on the windows and that was 17 grand and we're sitting, well, how are we going to pay for that and pay for all my car and all these other things? And so that happened to coincide with a nice Costco trip. And I love to cook. And so I'm fine stocking up on groceries. And so we had just got to Costco and I got really tired. I was like, Brian,

maybe we should just go out to eat tonight. And he was like, no, we just spent all this money at Costco. We have these windows to pay for. We have no money. I'm like, but we make good money. How do we not have any money? So I remember growing up and my mom would see you on like Fox News and the radio and that kind of stuff. And so I knew your name and I knew you were with Getting Out of Debt. So I immediately got on Amazon, of course, and bought the book. The book was delivered. I devoured the book. I said, Brian, we need to do this. I love to read.

And he's like, I'm not reading a book. But I got really into it. I was like, you got to read this. You got to read this. And so, Dave, it was a little different journey for me. I'd never heard of you. And so Melissa gets this book. She's all excited.

Keeps asking me to read it. And I'm a very, very slow reader. But I had a trip. I was going on a flight. And I said, well, I'll flip through it, you know, just on the airplane. And three hours later, I was like, oh my gosh, what have I done? So I was like, I need to get on board. This is a team effort here. And the minute I landed, I called Melissa and said, you know what, Dave, we have got to get this done with the budget, right? So we started the budget process. That Every Dollar Budget is an awesome app, and that's how we started. So when I landed back home, we immediately started, and that started our journey.

So it all starts with Costco and a restaurant. That's absolutely right. Pretty much. Pretty much. Absolutely. Chicken parmesan and some bacon-wrapped dates, and that was it. There we go. I love it. I love it. Well done, you guys. Thanks. How parmesan and some bacon-wrapped dates. There we go. I love it.

I love it. Well done, you guys. Thanks. How does it feel to be out of debt? Oh, my gosh. It's amazing. I mean, the dreams that we have now for our life and our future and what we want that to look like, we can shape it.

Absolutely. And it gave me the opportunity and the courage to leave one good company and go to another good company. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's another $30,000 coming in. Absolutely. More than good company. Oh, okay. Yeah. So that's another $30,000 coming in. Absolutely. More than that at this point, too.

You don't have to sweat and worry about it and think about it. That's correct. Yep. Very cool. So you've been married 13 years. Have you ever been debt-free during that time? During our marriage, no. But Brian was.

Yeah. Before we got married, I was debt-free. And then we got married and incurred some things. But then it went downhill from there. Yeah. Pretty much. I can't say it now. I it went downhill from there. Yeah, pretty much. I can't say it now. I dragged him down from there.

It was so worth it, though. Every step of the way was totally worth it. Good save. Good save. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well worth it. Good job, you guys.

So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? This is very impressive that you did this in nine months. So I think for me, you've got to be a little bit flexible. I thought I was doing this right. I had a bunch of savings accounts kind of laying all over the place. I've been investing hardcore since I was 19 in my 401k

and doing all the, what I thought was the right things, but still incurring debt and reading the book and saying, I got to empty these bank accounts and pay off the debt and it'll refill itself. I could not get past it.

But once I did it and I built back up the wealth again so fast that the coffers got full really quick, I was so excited going, oh my gosh, I should have done this years ago. But I mean, guys that are out there, you got to support. It's a two-team effort here. It's two people on a team. If you're in it together, you're going to be successful. It cannot be one person. It's got to be both. You didn't do ish. I mean, you went all in. All in. You're going to on the team. If you're in it together, you're going to be successful. It cannot be one person.

It's got to be both. You didn't do ish. I mean, you went all in. All in. You're going to do a double win. Yeah. Absolutely. So how much was in the miscellaneous savings accounts?

We had about seven in some money markets and three in the savings that we dropped down to $1,000. So we threw $9,000 roughly. At the $58,000. At the $58,000, yep. And the rest of it, your cash flow. And then, yeah, I we threw $9,000 roughly. At the $58,000. At the $58,000, yep. And the rest of it you cash flowed. And then, yeah, I was doing the taxes all wrong. I would get a huge tax return back, and I was thinking I was doing it the right way,

and then what we would do is pay off the card and then redo the debt again, because that's what we did. And so when we paid that off and cut the cards up, it felt liberating. Like, we don't owe that anymore. Chase was chasing us around. That's enough of Chase. Yeah, so it was good. Discover freedom from being chased. That's right. That chasing us around. That's enough of Chase. Yeah, so it was good. Discover freedom from being chased. That's right.

That's absolutely right. Absolutely. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. What was the hardest thing for you today? I think for me it was, we kind of done an ish budget prior to this. So really doing like an every dollar and really assigning every single dollar that we made

um a home was really it was fun because brian's on a commission well we're both kind of have commission jobs right so you know being able to have that extra money and to say oh guess what we get to pay this extra on that um was was really fun once we got in the budget turns into a goal setting when you're on commission yeah yes and so you know but that was hard in the beginning you know to really get on it. And I will say Brian and I were very disciplined and once we set it, we really stuck to it and we honored that to the point where

our friends and family were like, oh, is that in the budget this month that we did this with you? Making fun of you. Yeah. But they were supportive. Tongue in cheek. Yeah, tongue in cheek with us for sure. And for me, it was the stop that investing in a 401k that I've been doing for almost 30 years. What's the balance in your 401K?

Right now, $458,000. Wow. Yeah. Very good. Yeah, $458,000. So we're well on the way to be able to give generously, like you say, and live like no one else can live. And we truly believe that we've been able to give to causes that are important to us. And we want to help people because, you know, you can't die with it.

And so as you can spread that wealth and help other people, that's what we're here to do. That's what God put us on the earth to do for sure. Yeah, you can die with it, but somebody's going to get it. I never saw a router truck fall on a hearse. That's right. We just want to decide who that somebody is. That's it. And enjoy it while you're doing it.

Yeah. Absolutely. While you're alive. And trusting the process. I really think that that was really something. Once Brian was really on board and trusting the process and willing to stop his 401k and willing to empty all of those funds out it really just was um i don't want to say easy after that but you know it made it smoother for sure well and that's that was his part of the teamwork you know plus it's with what you do for a living you're a process guy right i mean you know

if you do stuff wrong on the floor you got all got a mess. That's correct. You can't do things out of order. That's right. And so you kind of respect the process, and that makes a lot of sense. Very cool. Well done, you guys. Thank you. Very proud of you. Thank you for giving us the roadmap.

Absolutely. We're proud of you. You're heroes. Well done. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Retire Inspired. We want that to be the next chapter in your story to not only be debt free but now be millionaires and outrageously generous as you go along. So good job.

Thank you Dave. Brian and Melissa from Ohio. 58,000 paid off plus 6,800 in surgery in 9 months making 144 to 174. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. 3, 2, one.

We're debt-free! Love it! Great job, you guys. Great job. This is how it's done. Well done. Very proud of you. So tomorrow morning I'm flying to Dallas. I will be doing a keynote at the Southern Baptist Convention for about 10,000 of my friends down there. Looking forward to hanging out with those folks.

Got a lot of friends in that bunch. And I'll be over there doing some other stuff on Wednesday with them. We'll be back on the air live with you here on Thursday for those of you that listen daily. And we've got some special treats while I on Thursday, for those of you that listen daily. And we've got some special treats while I'm gone, so be sure you tune in, because you never know who might show up. Hey, business leaders, are you hiring, posting your position at job sites, and waiting and waiting and waiting for the right people to see?

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San Francisco, October the 2nd with Chris Hogan and me. Minneapolis, October the 29th with Chris Hogan and me. That one's almost sold out already. San Antonio, Texas, November the 15th with Chris Hogan and me. And the Smart Conference, Kansas City, October 13th is uh i think it's about 80 sold out at this point and you can still get tickets to that that's the day-long event with everybody involved plus les parrot meg meeker henry cloud and our whole ramsey uh personality lineup as well dallas texas is a smart conference, January the 12th.

That one's already been launched. And today we're launching two more cities to our Smart Money live tour. We will be in Irvine, California, and Colorado Springs in January. Chris Hogan and Anthony O'Neill will be in Colorado Springs on January the 17th, and Chris Hogan and I will be doing Irvine on January the 22nd. And so everybody's made mistakes with money, even me. That's how this whole thing started. And I'll get in your face about it, but it's because I love you.

Those mistakes don't have to define you. They don't have to hold you back. A fresh start begins with smart money. Smart money live is like going to a pep rally for money. It really is. You not only are going to hear things you've heard before, but you're going to hear them in a way and in order and with your spouse or your friend or whoever, your parent, your kid, whoever it is goes with you. You're going to break free from a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. See, you have the power to choose.

Now, what we're going to do for Irvine and Colorado Springs, because we're launching them today, starting right now, seats are just $19 for today. Prices will go up really, really soon. We might bleed that over a little bit into tomorrow, but $19 seats for Irvine and Colorado

Springs in January. And you can find out about all of this at DaveRamsey.com or call triple eight 22 piece triple eight two two seven three two two three lucy's in los angeles hi lucy how are you hi dave how are you better than i deserve what's up all righty so i'm a college student and it's time to transfer so for my first school I didn't have any debt at all. And now the second school that I'm going to transfer to, the tuition is about $120,000. And the curriculum is kind of tough, so they don't really recommend working in that time.

I don't really know how I'm supposed to not get any loans but finish the degree. What are you studying? Dental hygiene. What? Yeah. You're studying what? Dental hygiene. Dental hygiene?

Yeah. For $120,000 a year? No, for the whole course. Okay. About three years, yeah. Okay, I feel better. Okay. It's a three- whole course. Okay. About three years, yeah. Okay, I feel better. Okay. It's a three-year course.

That's high for hygienist school. You think so? Yeah, I know so. Have you shopped around? It's because it's a bachelor program. Have you shopped around? And the other degrees that are cheaper are associates. Yeah, have you shopped around? Yeah, I have.

It's about average for the bachelors. Okay. Because a dental hygienist makes what? In California, the average is $100. Really? Yeah. I'm learning things. For cleaning teeth, you can make $100,000 as a hygienist.

Not a dentist, a hygienist not a dentist a hygienist yeah have you checked that data more than one source i mean it's possible i have no idea i i really am not claiming that just gives me sticker shock yeah i mean i i can't it's possible um california is expensive on a lot of things but I just wouldn't have thunk it. So I want you to go back and I want you to double check that. And then I want you to find a way to become a hygienist without going into debt. Because there's no possible way I would tell you. I'm sorry?

I've spoken to a few hygienists and they said that's about what they paid and that's about what they make. More than one or two. You talked to two? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. And maybe do a little bit of online research to verify that as well.

Yeah, I will. Okay, good. That doesn't justify going $120,000 in debt. So you don't have any money. No. And you have a $120,000 bill in front of you. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't have to be paid up front. It's paid over three years, so you a $120,000 bill in front of you. And it doesn't have to be paid up front.

It's paid over three years. So you need $40,000. So you are either going to school a different place a different way, or you're working or you're getting scholarships. Because I've got to tell you, there's not a chance under the sun that I'm going to recommend student loans for you. Because the 32-year-old you will be pissed at the 20-year-old you. Okay.

When you come out and you're sitting there with $120,000 wrapped around your neck, and you're 32 years old and you want to go home with two babies, and you go, I can't because I'm a slave to Sally Mae. Yeah, I really don't want to go into debt either. Yeah. I just would put that out there and say I'm not going to. Now how am I going to figure this out? And I don't have a perfect answer for you.

I will tell you that there's a lot of large dental organizations now. The neighborhood dentist is still a thing, but there's also a lot of big dental companies. I spoke for Heartland as an example a while back, which is an association of sorts, a company of sorts. But, you know, you could check with people like them and say, if I agree to work for your organization, one of your docs for a couple of years, a few years afterwards, how much of this will you scholarship me? And maybe intern or work in the offices while you're in school, too. Something along those lines.

And let's get this paid for, and let's find a way to pay for it that's not that. That still sounds very expensive. I haven't priced it. I'm getting sticker shock in this entire phone call. So it's possible I'm just getting old and I don't know what I'm doing. But I don't think so. I wouldn't have guessed that it cost 120k to be a dental hygienist but i also wouldn't have guessed that they'd have made 100k a year in california or

anywhere for that matter i'm not against you making that i'm not mad about it i just didn't think that was the case so um um yeah that's great if you can if i'm wrong and you guys all tweet me like 5 000 of you tweet me, I got it, okay? I didn't claim that I had intimate knowledge of this industry. I don't. But I'm not going into debt, period, number one. Number two, I'm not going $120,000 in debt for a three-year school. For sure, for sure I'm not going to do that.

So, you know, you just got to work your way through. How can I get at this with scholarships, working with a dental company that maybe you can go to work for later, maybe some of the suppliers to the dental world, the labs, that kind of thing have scholarships, and they would love to have hygienists who love them because they paid for their school or a portion of it or something like that, the drug companies, some of those things i'd be

poking around on all of that looking for somebody to pick up some or all of this bill and then uh trying to be figuring out how i'm going to work as well while this is going on i know they don't like you to work but they aren't paying your student loan debt so you know um you probably can work everybody says well you can't work says, well, you can't work. It's child abuse. You can't work. You've got to concentrate on your studies. I graduated with a 2.97.

Yes, I'm still pissed about the 3.100. And I did that in four years, working 40 to 60 hours a week. Working. I don't want to have the college experience. I don't want to experience the college experience. I don't want to experience debt. So I worked, and that's what I did. It was another time. I know it was another time. It was a long time ago. I'm old, but that's what people do. They work. That's where money comes from. So I'm going to try to figure it out between all of those things, Lucy, if I'm in your shoes.

Thank you for the call. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Candice is on Twitter. My sister-in-law started a nonprofit. Would Business Boutique by Christy Wright help her out? Probably. Nonprofits have some different characteristics than a for-profit business, but basically not-profit is an accounting

entry. A not-for-profit that doesn't make a profit goes out of business. You still have to take in more than you spend, or you're gone. If you stamp not-for-profit on it, it doesn't magically pay the rent for you. You still have to take in more in donations, charitable donations, whatever it is you're doing to gather money up, charitable donations whatever it is you're doing to gather money up grants whatever it is you still got to bring in more than you have to go out and you've still got to manage your value proposition for the people you're serving as well as for your donors so it's a little different but it is a business of sorts

and so yeah check in the business boutique by christy wright equipping women to make money doing what they love and they'll help you out with that candace this is the dave ramsey show hey it's kelly dave's phone screener we finished 2017 with a bang as the fourth most downloaded podcast of the year thanks to all of you for listening and helping us spread the word. Folks, the real estate market is on fire all over the country. If you're looking to buy a home and you need a mortgage, don't sell yourself short by going and getting a typical pre-approval. That's a false sense of security, and it's just not good enough in today's fast-moving market.

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