The Ramsey Show - App - How Can I Convince My Wife We Need To Pay Off Our Debt? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 2, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: Convincing a spouse to pay off debt, Selling a house, Negotiating salary, Living with parents until you're debt-free. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones here. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling

author, is my co-host, and we're glad to have him with us today. Open phones at 888-825-5225 is number one best-selling book on your past. Change Your Future is still zooming and zooming and zooming, as well as his podcast. So if you want to talk about your life and your money, we're here. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. 888-825-5225. David's going to start us off in Amarillo, Texas. Hi, David. How are you?

Pretty good, Dave. How are you today? Better than Dave. How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I have recently remarried about three years ago and was very near debt-free. And my wife, after we got married, we weren't going to have any debt except the house. And so anyway, on our first anniversary, I bought her a sleep number bed, which is very expensive, and I charged it. Well, now she likes to spend money like it's made out of water, like there's an endless supply.

And I can't get her to sit down with me and create a budget. And I would really like to do the Financial Feeds University with her, but I just don't know how to get her to agree to those things. Well, the first thing you don't do is say, Dave Ramsey said, whatever, you've already did it, didn't you? Yes, sir. You turned me into a cuss word man you you wimp you blamed it on me and the second thing is you can't tell your wife okay this is

going into our my new marriage this is going to be a key priority for us until the first big purchase and then i'm going to go ahead and just uh knock down my own boundary and then get mad at you for walking through that gate that i opened up you can't do that yeah so i understand what you've got to do is you have to dial back because both of you engaged in childish behavior and we have to both dial back to adult behavior adults devise a plan and follow it children do what feels good and so what you're discussing is the symptom the symptom is overspending the symptom is debt the symptom is a sleep number bed you financed a bed man a bed you gotta say that out loud

oh and so you have to dial back and go those are symptoms and the problem that caused those symptoms to occur is vision, lack of it. You do not have a shared vision for your wealth in the future and what your wealth will do for you. It will allow us to travel. It will allow us to buy this. It will allow us to be generous in this way. And we have to do things to cause that wealth to happen. And one of those is avoiding debt going forward and that includes me because i'm a bonehead and i broke my own word here you got to start with apologizing

deeply a deep bow and scrape and uh beg for forgiveness and then say but the reason i wanted us to do that even though i screwed it up was because i believe if we stay out of debt these are the things that are going to happen let's talk about why and where we're going and changing our family tree and retiring with dignity and being in a position to be unbelievably generous and those kinds of big things then she can get on board and oh by the way you get a vote and I get a vote we both have a vote and we don't go against that my wife and i were discussing a major purchase this morning before i left home and she wasn't happy about it and i'm really happy about it and um but later on but later on it got we got happy you know and so it worked out but we weren't i wasn't going to go forward with that until we're both in agreement and it fits into our overall plan yeah and i think it's

a boat or a truck a gun or a truck could be yeah could be it could be um you sidetracked me um so here's another thing a conversation you can have after the vision conversation is being curious with yourself when you're about to buy something, both you and her. The question I always want to ask myself, for me, it's eating. For me, it is, I want to skip a workout. For me, it's, I'm not going to check in with my wife on this. I'm just going to go do it. Right when I'm about to make a behavior that I know is going to cost me downstream, what's been transformative for me is instead of getting mad, instead of getting frustrated, is stopping and being curious and asking myself, what am I trying to protect myself from? What is this Amazon purchase? What am I trying? Oh, I'm bored. Oh, I had a tiff with my six-year-old and I'm pouting.

And so I'm going to go buy some more, I don't know, fishing line or something stupid that I don't really need. What am I doing this stuff for? And then that's always going to push me back to the vision, right? Which is, oh, we're doing this for this. I'm not going to hit it for this, right? I'm not going to hit purchase. I'm not going to go buy this. I'm not going to buy a $9,000 bed on credit

because we have a different vision for our life. But the most asked question since I started this show 30 years ago, how do I get my spouse on board? Yep. And number one answer is don't say Dave Ramsey said. Because nobody cares what Dave Ramsey said. It's got to be about us. It's got to be from inside, right?

Yeah. Really. I mean, that's not me just being humble or weird or something. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, your opinion for your life is you're the only one who gets a vote in your life. I don't get a vote in your life. If Sharon came to you and said, Dave, my friend Dan says that I should hold your hand more, so I'm going to start doing that, that wouldn't mean anything, right? But if my wife comes to me and says, hey, I want to start holding your hand,

I thought I want to get closer to you. That means something to me. Number one, you don't blame it on me. Number two, the whole get out of debt thing here is so that. Right. What's your so that? Yes. It's so that we can be not broke anymore and stressed.

It's so that we don't ever act like, you know, we've both talked about your parents are pitiful. Yeah. We're sad about their financial condition. We don't want to be them when we're old. That's right. It's so that. We're going to avoid debt so that we're not them. We're going to avoid debt so that.

We've got a pile of money. We send the kids to college without any debt. We want to be so that. We'd like to open a hospital in our neighborhood and drop $10 million into that. So that. I don't know what your so that is, but you need a so that because debt in and of itself is not worth it that's right i mean it's good it's good get out of

debt it's a good thing but the only reason we want you to get out of that the reason we teach you get out it's so that yes you get financial peace yes and so that you can do things yes and you can say when that kid comes to your door you don't kind of find nickels and pennies you can buy all the candy right you can You can do those generous things, man. You can completely buy out all the inventory of the Girl Scout. Wouldn't that be fun? That'd be fun. Just mess with her day.

And what would be really great is to have 75 boxes of cookies, and I'll try to explain to my wife, I'm just doing a good thing, hon. Buy a single mom a car. Yeah, exactly. Oh, buy 10 of them a car. Exactly. You know? I i mean change your life man so take that girl in the youth group and pay for her college but the problem is when we get down into the weeds it all comes down to a sleep number bed becomes a math problem instead of a heart it's a sleep number bed what what what yeah i mean god i wish i could go back and tell you all the stupid butt stuff

i have done with money and bought things i have bought that are just hilariously stupid sleeping over bed wouldn't be on the list but i've done some hilariously stupid things សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី Dr. John Deloney, number one best-selling author, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host today. Lisa's with us in Chicago. Hi, Lisa, how are you? How are you doing? Good, how can we help? So I'm in the middle of negotiating my salary for a new job,

and I'm a little bit, don't know how to handle it or how to take it from here. And to give you a little bit of background, I'm in a dead-end IT job. So I decided to go somewhere else plus get a certification. Um, so my next job I asked for, I currently make 73 base. I asked for 83, but they're not willing to pay more than 75. So how big a company is this? It's big, yes financial uh it's during the financial industry okay all right well you probably got your number you just need to decide if you want to work there

i doubt that they're going to do a bunch of negotiating i think they've told you what they're going to do you might get a little bit out of this but uh the the way to posture and position yourself so you don't harm yourself into a brand new job, you don't automatically end the honeymoon before it starts, is just switch shoes for a minute. If you were that supervisor that's interviewing you or that company that's interviewing you, why would you give you more money? I want it is not a reason okay and i had a magic number in my head that they didn't meet doesn't make them a bad person i was the worst i would have a magic number in my head and it was so sometimes it was ludicrous and then the boss would come in and i'd feel like they and offer me hey here's a job and here's five thousand less than your magic number and i would feel that as a loss like they'd offer me, hey, here's a job, and here's $5,000 less than your magic number,

and I would feel that as a loss, like they had taken something from me, right? They hadn't at all. That's how I feel. Yeah, they'd offer me a job. And so you just have to decide, do I want to change my life for $2,000 and a big company that if you go in there and bust it and do great work and provide value will increase your salary over time in in different roles and professional and professional responsibilities right so the way

i would approach it is i would just ask the hiring supervisor that you're talking to or whatever the phrase is that you use how could i add more value in this position that would make me more valuable that would make you guys want to pay me more i don't want you to give me more money just because i i think i deserve it because i breathe air i'm willing to do things that are moral and reasonable extra i'm willing to add elements to this that that you know that make me more valuable to this company and then you that that you know what would be the thing i would need to well you'd add elements to this that make me more valuable to this company. And then what would be the thing I would need to do? Well, you'd need to get this certification. Great.

Can we agree that when I get this certification, then it comes with an automatic raise that matches that, and I'll go get the certification. And you can start at the lower position and then go get the certification six months later and get your raise, right? Or whatever. But you're not asking them to give you something because you're entitled in any way. No, I'm not.

I don't feel that way at all. I know. And so make sure you're vocalizing it that way. How can I add value because I would really like to make 80, but I don't expect you to pay me that, or 85. I don't expect you to pay me that or 85 i don't expect you to pay me that unless there's a reason and so i'm asking you what would i need to do to be worth 85 or 80 or whatever for you guys because i'd really like to get there help me because i'm i'm all about

personal growth i'm all about getting better and i'm all about making sure that I make you more than I cost you. Okay. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Sure. And I think, Dave, that wisdom is good because she enters into a conversation that's with, not against, and she might find out, oh, man, we pay this. This is a big company, and so we pay this band of employee X and Y, and you're at the top of that range, but we're going to move you.

So you find out, actually, they're capping the value that they can. So you find out a lot of stuff when we're on the same side. But when we're across the negotiating table, then it's got to be you versus me, right? Well, a negotiation properly done of any kind is not put up your dukes. That's right. It's not, I'm going to take from you so that i get more right it's not a zero-sum game uh in other words if she brought in an extra million dollars in revenue to that organization would they gladly give her more money absolutely in a heartbeat you know most of them would anyway

some of them are too stupid to do that but most of them most companies small large anything and so it's like we go win together i tell folks around here if you leave the cave kill something and drag it home i will share it with you right you know i'm not going i'm not greedy i don't but but also not going to pay you you know i had one guy go well you know you need to pay me this because i've got all these degrees and i'm like he had more degrees than a thermometer i mean it was like and i'm like dude your raise is effective when you are right you know this is a small business so at so all negotiations are how can we get to where we want to be together even if you're buying something from someone how do you keep i once i once i sit across table from somebody my hackles come up yeah how do you keep from turning it into a competition

yeah well the problem is if you're a competitive guy I mean that's oh yeah if if my deal becomes not beating him my deal become my win is when I get the deal done okay not not did I destroy him not that I got him to take five thousand dollars less but no we how did I get the deal done because I because you win and it's not a back and see the if you get into a one-dimensional thing on a negotiation where it's just like a price on, you're buying a car from somebody, and the price is this. And you go, okay, well, I'll give you this. Well, I'll take that. Well, back, and you go, you know, it's just back and forth until you meet, and then you go, well, we'll split the difference or whatever.

And you go back and forth with this verbal ping pong. Ball's on your side of the net. Ball's on my side. And every time we get a little bit closer, finally someone goes, enough, this is it that you've reached my point you got my number and you go okay i'm in or i'm not uh or uh but if you can make it about something else yeah you know it's not just the price okay for instance i'm used to you know buy a lot of foreclosures or buy a lot of real estate and i would tell people in those days house has been sitting on the market for a while. We will close it this afternoon for cash.

Now that matters. Yes. You lighten their load a little bit. This is just, we're done. You got money tonight to go buy a lobster dinner, baby. I mean, this is today. You've been screwing around with this house for six months. You're behind on your payments tonight. And in return, i get price a good house yeah i get a how but i get a good price i

get a good price but but the immediacy is a different factor than price right and so you add other factors into the equation when you're negotiating and in her case the factor we're adding in is how can i add value to where you wish that I was here? You're happy that I'm here. What can I do to be the best team player you've ever had on the team? You know, and what does it look like to be, as our friend Pat Lencioni says, the ideal team player? Andrew is with us. Andrew is in Kansas City.

Hi, Andrew. How are you? I'm good. Thank you for taking the call, Dave. Sure. What's up? Yeah, I'm just wondering, the question I have is, should I sell my house? Now, there's a lot of things that happened here in the last few years,

namely, when I say we, but I, uh, bought the house at the time, um, I was married and I bought it with my wife expecting, you know, a larger family, um, and whatnot. Unfortunately, in the same month we bought it, uh, she asked me for a divorce and, uh, unfortunately, uh, we couldn't work and work the marriage out. Why would you not sell it? Why would I not sell it? I don't want to make an emotional decision based off the house, and i wanted to do it like a smart way uh secondly but you wouldn't buy this house today in your situation no okay when was your divorce finalized

uh uh last year yeah i'm sorry andrew yeah your heart you're i can i can hear your heart breaking in front of me. You're still really hurting. And that's kind of clouding, and you don't trust your own judgment. You're not confident anymore in your own judgment. So I don't think you're making a mistake selling the house. It's just a stupid house. And it sounds to me like it's a part of a future that died,

and it's okay to let it go with the death of that dream, with the death of that marriage, and go start fresh somewhere. It would be good for you to have a new space to be in. John, you think that's right? I'd sell it. I'd put on the market today. Yeah. I'd be done with it, man.

I'm sorry for you. It's time. Sorry. This is The Ramsey Show. One of the most common pieces of advice I give folks trying to get out of debt is to sell the car. But it's important to sell the smart way by using CarWiser. CarWiser is a completely free service that gets you offers from all the top online dealerships instantly. Just enter your vehicle information and boom, you're ready to pick up an offer and get paid. CarWiser saves you hours of time and hassle. So go to carwiser.com slash Ramsey.

That's carwiser.com slash Ramsey. Thank you for joining us, America. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Wes and Lindsay are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? How's it going? We're good. Awesome. Where do y'all live?

We're in Castle Rock, Colorado. Oh, nice. Fun. Welcome to Nashville. How much debt have you paid off? $215,000. All right. How long did that take?

38 months. All right. And your range of income during that three years? Yeah, we started at $120,000 and then ended at $185,000. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a stay-at-home mom and a grad student. And I run a planning and development team for an oil and gas company in Denver.

Ah, and it's obviously done very well in the last 36 months. Good. Good for you, or at least you've done very well. Good. Proud of you. Very cool. What kind of debt was your $215,000? It was her house.

You paid off your house! Weird people! How old are you two? I'm 35. And I'm 38. And you're a paid-for house in Castle Rock, Colorado. What's it worth? $660,000.

How much is in your retirement accounts, guys? Right at $400,000. So right at being baby steps millionaires ding ding look at you and not even 40 years old tell me this stuff doesn't make you wealthy the people listening like you can't even talk you're smiling so big like this is exciting i can feel it through the glass that's double pain glass right you're just radiating this excitement that's awesome so proud of y'all very cool you did this fast too very well done all right tell us what happened how'd you get connected to the ramsey way uh about 10 years ago a close friend of mine was leading fpu and uh even though she'd been prodding at me to to go uh he convinced me so of course yeah okay and so uh but you only did this for

three years so what happened to the other six years uh we got we started paying our house off when we went through fpu and then i got transferred so we had to press pause for a little bit and then we got transferred back to colorado and uh that's when we started okay and then we when you landed there and everything does settle you said okay we're doing this for real that was 38 months ago game on yeah yeah we were leading an fpu class and it's really easy to to get motivated to pay off debt when you're teaching this stuff so yeah that's so good that's so good well done you two yeah it's a little difficult to lead the class and not do the stuff. That's kind of hypocritical.

Yeah. Yep. So, Lindsay, take us back to the moment when Wes comes in and says, Hey, I've been talking to my friend Dan. He thinks we should walk us through that conversation. Well, his name's Tim. Tim Uleberry, if you're watching. I was trying to help him out, but go ahead.

Um, so Tim suggested we go through this class and I had been trying to get him to do it for a while. And then we finally went through it. He listened to his friend, Bubba Me. But, um, yeah, it was, it was awesome. We finally got on the same page and like, like you said, it took us a long time to, to finally get to the point where we wanted to get gazelle and tents on our house. But a few years later we decided to, to do it. And now you don't have a payment in the world. Nope. How's it feel to not have a payment in the world and you're not even 40? Feels like peace. Yeah, it's awesome. It's absolutely awesome. You know what you can do when you don't have any payments and make $185,000 a year? Anything you want. Wow. Pretty impressive. Hey, unpack that word peace. I think we've gotten to a place in our culture where peace is

like a unicorn. I don't even know what that looks like. I've never seen one of those in real life. Describe that. What's a couple of things that have changed in your life? Oh, gosh. So during COVID, when oil went negative, that was not a time of peace when I had a lot of debt. Yeah.

And for the last five years, we've gone through rolling layoffs about every six months. And knowing that if that happens again, that we're just perfectly fine. I mean, I could get a job at Walmart. It's going to be annoying, not catastrophic. Yeah. Yeah. And that is an inconvenience.

Yeah. It is really peaceful to know that there's nothing weighing on our shoulders in this category. What's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate? We kind of already did. We promised our kids that we had sacrificed so much when we were on this journey, and they're still pretty young. We told them that we would take them to Disney World when we got our house food off.

We got to do that, and that was awesome. But the biggest thing is I bought a new washer and dryer. Yeah! That's how you celebrate right there. That's a big celebration. Wes, you didn't buy her that for Christmas, did you? No, I didn't. I bought her a vacuum.

No, I'm kidding. Oh, you guys are incredible. I'm so proud of you. What is the thing you tell people when they learn that you are 100% debt-free, if they learn that, if they learn that you're Baby Steps Millionaires, and they say, how'd you do that? You're not even 40. What do you tell them the key is?

For me, the key has really been intentionality and contentment and just less consumption, just less financial consumption, but also less social media consumption, less HGTV consumption. Both of those things make you want to buy stuff yeah and just really um being thankful and happy with what we have um i like to say the phrase comparison is the thief of joy and for me that was really true so when i just became content with what i had and uh that was a huge part of this how it worked for me is that a craig groschel or a rachel cruz quote one of those two is that rachel cruz quote i don't know who said one of those two said that yeah we'll say rachel cruz yeah there you go probably is because of her book love your life not theirs yeah probably in that so wow way to go you guys so proud of you who are your biggest cheerleaders uh our whole

family was uh they're really, you know, not many of them have gone through FPU, but they're all huge supporters. They're, I mean, every single one of them was rooting for us. They're probably watching right now and they're probably all pumped.

Yeah. And then we've got some best friends who went through the class when we were teaching it. Desiree and Adam, shout out. So, so yep and my favorite thing is looking at those three beautiful little kids and go ahead and bring them up most people don't understand like yeah they're not gonna have debt growing up but they're gonna have a mom and

dad who aren't always worried what if we get laid off and we're not gonna we're gonna have a mom and dad who's worried if we get a flat tire this thing's over with stress level in the house is approaching zero right and dad's not gonna be yelling at the little league coach because he's got peace in his life he's not angry at teenagers right it's such a gift yeah way to go guys hey we got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you copy a total money makeover you can give those away in your financial peace class because you're all of these things also going to give you a financial peace membership you can give that away and get somebody else started on your journey if you want since it helped you guys so much that's so cool what are the kids names and ages this is hannah and she's six this is jonah and

he's four and this is naomi and today's her birthday she's turning nine happy birthday naomi awesomeness. Very cool. Very cool. Well, you guys have absolutely changed their family tree. You've changed everything. I'm so proud of you. Absolute rock star couple, man.

You're absolutely amazing. Well done, well done, well done. All right, it's Wes and Lindsey and birthday Naomi and Hannah and Jonah from Colorado. $215,000 paid off, house and everything, while becoming Baby Steps Millionaires. Did it all in 38 months, making $120,000 to $185,000. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Are you ready, guys? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! This is how it's done! Boom! This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Brian in Texas. Brian asks, I'm 27 years old with a bachelor's degree in accounting and $40,000 in debt,

$28,000 in student loans and $13,000 in credit cards. I have a full-time job making $41,000 in debt, 28 K in student loans and 13,000 in credit cards. Have a full-time job making 41 grand a year and live at home. They, I'm assuming it's his parents want me to stay with him as long as possible because they are as long as possible because they are enablers. I want to move out and I asked them to set a deadline for when I have to move. Okay.

They are giving me until Februarybruary of 2023 this is so backward i don't have any money saved because i've been throwing it all the debt is it wise to stay with my parents till i'm debt free or save up and move out while continuing to pay off debt yeah there's a lot of things happening backwards here yeah i would say usually parents throw the kids out the kids don't ask the parents to throw them out that's a little backward yeah well it's like mom and dad are saying we want you to stay with us forever and then he says no give me a date when i have to be gone and they're like okay a year and he's like yeah i get it dude brian listen if you were

here with us we'd all be laughing, and you know that. We'd be laughing. Here's the thing. Save up some money and get an apartment. Yeah. Or, I mean, yeah. Give out. And I don't know why you only make $41,000 a year with a degree in accounting.

Yes. Your job sucks. You need to go get King Coleman's book and look for a better job. Also, you know, that's horrid. Yeah. No, you do not need to stay there until you're debt-free. That is not a guideline. Yes, it would be mathematically more efficient. I will tell you from personal experience, Brian, that I observed each of my children after college either setting up house on their own, so to speak,

or one of them actually moved and lived with us for about three months and then with a game plan to move out very quickly. But in every case when they moved out and had to buy their own milk, had to pay their own light bill or the electricity got cut off, had to buy groceries or there was nothing in the refrigerator, had to do laundry or there was no clean underwear. In every case when they had to do those basic menial adult tasks, I visibly watched them change in that first year they were out. And they were already mature, hardworking, good people. But I watched their emotional development accelerate when they left the nest and uh some

more obvious than others in different situations but it was it was palatable that uh no more checks coming from me and no more laundry done by your mom and when they had to pick up that and run with it, it changed everything. So, yeah, I always recommend as quickly as a young person can reasonably get out on their own, even though it does not appear to be mathematically the correct thing to do, it generally ends up being mathematically the correct thing to do because it accelerates you. And you are what creates your income. So you probably, even though you might not associate it with the activity of having moved out, it changes how you walk.

It changes your swagger, your body language. And so you go get money more often. Right. And because you turn out to need money out here in the world. And so it's just good. And it's good for you. I would highly recommend you do that. Not in a panic.

Not in a freak out. But I wouldn't wait until February. And I certainly wouldn't wait until you're out of debt. I'm proud of him for recognizing, wait a minute. I'm being enabled. My immaturity is, you know, it took him until he was 27, for goodness sakes. But, hey, you figured it out move out and let's get this thing going some people are 35 45 55 and they haven't figured out yet that

well they're like characters in a movie though i mean that's just ridiculous yeah or callers on my show yeah yeah well yeah i mean it's listen uh uh an eagle that does not leave the nest eventually is called a turkey. So you need to. Or the way I describe it is if you are constantly going into the weight room and helping your kids lift the weight, they're never going to develop their own muscles. And eventually you're helping them out causes them. It is the extension of the helicopter mom. That's right.

Helicopter parent syndrome to just keep them in the basement forever. causes them. It is the extension of the helicopter mom, helicopter parent syndrome to just keep them in the basement forever. Like, oh well. Okay. Yeah. Ashley's in Denver. Hey Ashley, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? Sorry, I apologize. I'm a little nervous. That's okay. We've never lost a patient. What's up? I have a question or a couple questions in regards to my student loans. I recently received notification that they have been approved to be forgiven through a class action lawsuit.

And through the research that I've done, I can't quite determine if this is taxable income or non-taxable income. They're forgiven because it sounds like it was a private school and it went broke. Yes. It's the lawsuit currently going on through the Department of Education, yes. Yeah, yeah. And there's been a couple of big ones come down lately, and you're probably in that. So that is one of the instances that student loan forgiveness is real and does happen. So I'm guessing that probably a very, very likely case that your student loans will be forgiven. Now, normally debt that is forgiven is taxable income for instance if you owe a master card four thousand dollars and you don't pay them

and they send you a letter saying uh you know you owe them five thousand dollars they send you a letter saying for 50 bucks we'll forgive this you send them 50 bucks then you get a tax bill for the difference you get a 1099 receipt for the difference on taxable income i do not know on student loan forgiveness due to fraud by the, which is what this case is, by the institution, if that is a taxable event or not. That may be nuanced under the law, and it may be a type of debt forgiveness that is not taxable. otherwise debt forgiveness is taxable by and large i mean um so uh what i would do if i were in your shoes because i don't know the answer to your question i'm sorry uh it is i would go to ramsay solutions.com click on elp for taxes get a tax professional that we recommend and they can

look up the uh regulation on this particular thing this nuanced part of the law, and see if there's anything that goes with that. It wouldn't surprise me if it's not taxable. It really shouldn't be. It makes sense. It's logical that other types of debt forgiveness are taxable because that's money that you owe. In this case, they're saying you really don't owe it because you weren't really given anything by this horrible incompetent institution that went broke tell me

about this i didn't know this so if i owed fifty thousand dollars somebody pays off that debt the government registers that gap as income yes okay yeah even if it goes directly to the loan debt right but even if it goes directly to the lender and not through me yeah it doesn't matter it doesn't matter no i mean if they forgive the debt like it usually comes up if you're negotiating a balance on an old bad debt you know like you owe them ten thousand dollars from five years ago on a master card and you call up city bank and you argue with them and they go, well, you know, we'll take $2,000 as settlement. But I pay taxes on that eight. Yep. Wow. I didn't know that. Okay. They're going to send a 1099 out on that. They're supposed to. Because they're writing it off. Because it's a business loss for them and it's a gain for you. Right. Because money

you legitimately owed, but because you weren't, because it was bad debt, they decided to take less for it. So you did gain from that. But the theory in the student loan forgiveness is that these jack-legged, weird private school things would go semi-scam type thing. They're predatory, yeah. Yeah, they're predatory. They would get people into debt, and then the education or the certifications that they gave them weren't worth anything and would go broke. And so, really, you haven't gained. That's about making you whole.

Yeah, they're just making you whole here. So it's a different theory anyway. But whether or not they're going to tax that, I don't know. You have to check your tax person. Not very good at some of those things. This is The Ramsey Show. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone.

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