The Ramsey Show - App - How Can I Increase My Income? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: August 2, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: How to increase your income, Fighting discouragement, Paying extra on your house, When to give up on a career.   Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they really love, and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for build wealth, do work that they really love, and create actual amazing relationships. Thank you for joining us, America. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, and also host of the Ken

Coleman Show here on the Ramsey Networks, is my co-host today. We are answering your questions. Todd is in Los Angeles. Hi, Todd. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello. Hi. What's up? I'm calling because I'm a special education teacher at a local high school, and I'm interested in increasing my income,

and I'm kind of on the fence as far as what's the best strategy to do that. Well, do you have a plan as to where you would go from that special education position? What's that ladder look like, or what are you considering? Well, there's a couple things that bounce around in my head. One of them is trying to take on a second job in the evenings and weekends. So I could increase my income that way. It would be like kind of an immediate fix. But at the same time, I need to sleep and I need, you know, I think I'd be really exhausted if I did that. Sure. that. Um, um, and I think that would have probably, I could probably earn approximately

$50,000 or more a year. Um, the other option is something I've been thinking about is, and that would be going back to school to get like my PhD in psychology or something like that. Um, and the motivation with that is I've, I've got experience working with, you know, students with autism and learning disabilities. So I'm already kind of dealing with a neurocognitive type stuff. And I think if I were to go back and get a degree in psychology, I think I would have more opportunities to earn significantly more. Okay, so that's the exercise. So you're already down that path. You just have to confirm this.

If you get a PhD in psychology, what does that now qualify you for as it relates to stepping up the ladder and an extension of what you're already doing? You have to know that. It's not something where we prospect on that. That's a lot of time and money for you to go get a PhD. Even if you got the cash

for it. We don't want you to go into debt. And so you got to know that, you know, there's a simple construct that I will give to you that I give to everybody who's considering school. Is it the only way to go where you want to go? And you're not really clear yet. And you need to get a little bit clearer on here are some options for me. Option A, c when you finish this degree what are you going to be doing for your day job every day that makes you a living and what does it pay and does it require the degree that's the exercise right now you've kind of got this well if i had a degree i'd probably be worth more money not really that's yeah probably not because you'll be one of those aimless people with degrees out there wandering in the traffic again yeah okay because here's the deal here's the good news you may not need

a higher ed degree to make more money you know you've got to play this out and it's that simple is it the only way if you want to be a licensed psychologist you're gonna have at least a master's in psychology in every state now so um you know that is that's that's permission to play there that's table stakes so uh you know so you need to identify exactly when this is over what you will be doing for a living that's if you want to get a phd and go back and teach in college fine if you want to do research fine if you want to be doing therapy on a daily basis fine then what degree is required for the knowledge base and for licensing that sets you up to win yeah you don't you don't pick a uh a mode of transportation and then decide where you want

to go you decide where you want to go multiple options now where you want to go. Multiple options. Now, what's the best way to get there? So you're on the right track, but you've got the order flipped. And it's that simple. Then we decide, oh, okay, great. What can I make here? Will I enjoy the work? Check. Yes. What does it take to get qualified to do it? Now I put the plan together to climb the mountain. So, and I would say this, in the short term, I would choose between exhaustion and making the same amount of money. I also think there's a narrative there that I want to challenge you on, Todd. To make more money, you don't have to choose exhaustion. You know, and I understand you can work some extra hours, but you don't have to choose exhaustion. You can

go, all right, I'm not going to work myself into oblivion and be burned out physically, mentally, and emotionally, but I'm going to work some hours more to bring be burned out physically mentally and emotionally but i'm going to work some hours more to bring in some more income i choose that as you're making the decision yeah and and again that may be how you fund school that's what i'm thinking that's a possibility so then it then it becomes you got a reason to take the extra hours just generally speaking i want to work on a part-time job so i have more money yeah not unless you have something to do with the money uh again very goal-oriented very intentional in every step and in the direction that you're going katie is in cincinnati hi katie welcome to the ramsey show hi guys how are you great what's up um first of all i just want to

say thank you we've paid off sixty thousand dollars in debt in the last few years, so I'm super excited about that. Great. Thank you very much. And my question is, so basically I am a photographer by trade. I work full-time for a big corporate company, and I've been here for four years and just recently got back from maternity leave and had been working towards getting a promotion at this job, but then when I got back from maternity leave and had been working towards getting a promotion at this job. But then when I got back, they had hired someone else to basically take on the lead position here. So I'm kind of in this spot where I feel like I'm not progressing in this career or in this company, basically. And I'm trying, I'm starting to kind of toss around the idea of possibly going out and branching out on my own and freelance. But I'm, I guess what I'm starting to kind of toss around the idea of possibly going out

and branching out on my own and freelance. But I guess what I'm trying to ask is I'm kind of nervous to do it in a way, but also because we're paying off debt, I don't want to hinder any of that. So I'm just trying to figure out a way. Is this the right move? Should I do that? Or should I just kind of grin and bear it for the next foreseeable future? Well, I think that's a conversation that you as a family unit have got to make,

have a conversation on that. I would lean towards sticking it out where you are so that when you go into full-time photography to work for yourself, you do not have this massive pressure. And you put all this pressure on yourself when you go, okay, I'm going to go work for myself, and we've got this debt snowball we're still working through. And I don't think that's going to allow you to be, A, as creative as you need to be. And I think it's going to put a lot of pressure on you.

And you don't need that. What I would do is stay where you are. And I would start doing some photography on the side to increase the rate of which we're paying off the debt. Yeah, start as a side hustle. And now that sets you up to make the transition once you guys have paid off the debt and got the emergency fund fully funded. Yeah, and I'm doing that now, too. So I just was like, my gosh, I love doing what I do.

I just have gotten to this point where I feel like I'm pushing and pushing and pushing to get to this. I think that's the bigger issue. Let's throw out the truth that I'm hearing, okay? If in your shoes this is how i would be okay you just had a baby and when you went back to work they hurt your feelings yes which means you're like a human right yeah that's a normal reaction to what happened to you at the worst possible time and so you're just kind of both sad and mad at the same time and you want to give them the finger but i'm going to be an adult and not do that right now i'm going to hang out there

get my act together and then just stroll out the door when i'm ready yeah don't get discouraged stay disciplined and remember you're doing all of of this not to pay off debt only, but also to do your dream job down the road. ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today number one best-selling author on the line our good friend pastor craig groschel LifeChurch.tv, LifeChurch.com in Oklahoma City. Pastor Craig, how are you, my friend? Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. I'm doing great. How are you guys? Doing great, man. Doing great. Another book. Proud of you. Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you.

You and I were talking about this book a little while back when we were together, knowing that it was coming. And I'm really, really excited about it. It's called Lead Like It Matters, with the it circled, seven leadership principles for a church that lasts. But leadership principles are leadership principles whether you're running a church or running a business, right? Right, absolutely. I learn from business leadership every day that the principles transfer,

and I think that although this is written to church leaders, I think I'm convinced it will help business leaders and leaders of nonprofits and whatever people lead. Cool. Another Zondervan publication. A great, great thing. All right, so tell us the story behind this book. You're leading one of the largest churches in America today. Your staff is what size today uh it's uh close to a thousand or so okay so you got about the same size group we got over here except yours are spread all over right right well we yeah the uh story behind the book dave uh

we we talk about it and uh if i could say this like the Ramsey organization, you guys have it, have it for sure. Some people might say we're all full of it, but if you went back in time, we started, we were one of the churches that started doing church in multiple locations early on, and we had the craziest thing. We had buildings that were almost exactly the same, worship music that was almost the same, teaching that was the same, that staff was trained the same way, volunteers the same way. And the results were really, really different. We'd walk into one and there'd be this kind of vibrant faith and anticipation and vibe and hope and a buzz. And we'd walk into another one with the same contributing factors and it would feel more dead, more lifeless.

And so we started to say that the language just evolved around it. We said, well, this place has it, and this one doesn't. And so we started asking ourselves, what is it? And it's a complicated question to answer, but for years people have been saying, like, you know, that actor, they've got the it factor. And so what we did is we did a real in-depth organizational study into nonprofits and businesses and into leaders and asked, what are the factors that contribute to the it factor? And what are the things that kill it? And it involved into a book that I wrote in 2008.

And this is a very, very revised and expanded version of the book called Lead Like It Matters. And so I'm i'm just i can't wait for leaders to read it i think it'll help you know parents i think it'll help leaders in schools and non-profits and and businesses as well yeah a lot of the this kind of thing it falls under the category like we say around here uh people sometimes ask me when i'm teaching leadership stuff how do you motivate people and i say i absolutely do not do that i hire motivated people yep you cannot light wet wood you know it just want you can't win the kentucky derby with a donkey so you know it matters the it factor is a real thing and and they don't have to the person doesn't have to come in with the ability to be perfect, for sure, because we'd get nobody to help us.

And number two, they don't have to come in, you know, complete every single thing you need for them to be able to do. You can add things to the ingredients to the person's life. But, boy, they got to have some basic structure to the it factor, don't they? Absolutely. And we talk a lot about that in the book. We cover the seven consistent factors that we found in our study of organizations that have it. And so we go into a deep dive. And then some of the new content of the book is even around what you talked about, Dave,

is there's a chapter called Creating Systems That Empower It. And so the bottom line is, you know, what we have organizationally is a result of the systems that are in place. And a good system can make an average team member look great, and a bad system can make a good team member look really bad. And so what we want to do is we want to put great people into a great culture that never happens by accident, facilitated by great systems, fulfilling a great vision. And so we really talk about all of these different

organizational factors that matter so much. And if we get those things right, we're going to see it in our businesses and our ministries, but it's not guaranteed that it's going to stay there. And I would guess, you know, Ken, you've probably seen it as well in the team you work with. There are times when things are humming and then other seasons when they're groaning. And so we want to try to learn how to dissect and understand what's going on and bring a real strategic mindset to these are the factors that help us get where we want to get. And here's the roadblocks keeping us from it. So what do we do to help our

team members be successful? And I think this book can really, really be a good aid to leaders and their teams. Craig, I love this book because it's so practical to our audience because we have a lot of men and women who are very serious about growing in their professional life, growing their income, and that comes with growing their influence and then responsibility. So I have a two-part question. As you unpack the qualities that contribute to that it for leaders themselves, if someone is a zero, can they become a hero in these areas? And then detail out some of those qualities that you detail in the book that we have to develop to actually grow and truly maximize our leadership? That's a great question. So, and even wrapping back to what Dave was saying, that he doesn't tend to motivate, he wants to hire motivated people. In the same way we talk about in the book,

one of the things we don't really try to do is to motivate almost implies to push, but inspire is to bring something out of people and there's a fascinating study done by bain research that shows most people when they think about an inspirational leader they think of someone kind of like dave who's you know loud and has big vision and you know says be that free and and we think oh that's what i have to be but what if i'm not that so your, can a zero become that? What Bain found is that there's actually 33 different, very distinct traits that lead toward an inspirational leader.

And some of them are things like showing empathy, consistency, following up. There's 33 different traits. All you need is one or two of these well-developed, and you can be an inspirational leader. So to answer your question, yes, you don't have to look like every other leader, sound like them, think like them. There's tons of different traits where you can exceed. If you just kind of excel in greatness in one or two areas, you can be very, very inspirational. And we go into that.

And what we found was fascinating as we study the leaders that have it. For example, you, Ken, for years, you've played at the top of your game. We found is that these leaders have almost what you'd call like contradicting, almost opposing extremes. And I'll give you a quick example. Like you are both, Dave, but both of you guys, you're very, very confident. You're incredibly confident. And at the same time, it almost seems like an opposite. You're humble. You're both confident and you're humble. Another one is you guys, you're both very, very driven. You're like work horses, you work your brains out, but you're also healthy. If you're not both, you're not going to, you may get it, but you're not going to keep it. And so we kind of go through what are those

contributing factors that we can develop in our own leadership and what are the organizational factors that we need present. You ask about them, a couple of them. You have to have great vision. Where there is no vision, your organization is going to perish and people are going to perish. You've got to have focus. A lot of times, Dave, I brought up what I thought are good ideas to you and you're like, yeah, that's a good idea, but we don't do that here. Here's what we do. And your focus enables your success.

So we go through seven of those ideas of what organizationally can make you great and then dive into the specific leader. What can you do in your own personal leadership to go from maybe struggling to better, to become great, to have it, and to make a big difference? Pastor Craig Groeschel, the new book is Lead Like It Matters, Seven Leadership Principles for a Church that Lasts. You can pick it up anywhere great books are sold. And, you know, this is obviously something that you want to dig into. This guy is a practitioner. This is not a think tank.

Craig is a leader every day, one of the best leaders I know. And if you're leading 1,000 people and you've grown one of the largest churches in America today, it's not an accidental act. It didn't just randomly occur. It happened because of great leadership from men like Craig. And so you do want to read this. Lead like it matters. Well, good to talk to you, my friend.

Tell Ms. Amy we said hey, and we'll see you October 22nd at Smart Conference. See you at Smart Conference. Can't wait, Dave. Love you guys. This is the Ramsey Show. Thank you. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. One of our favorite things to do on this show is have people come on and do their debt-free screams. The only thing better than that is if they come into the lobby in person and they're here doing their debt-free scream on the debt-free stage.

And the only thing better than that is when they do it on the debt-free stage in person and they're part of the Ramsey team. And Gray Sanborn is with us. His wife, Becca, has been a member of our team for about six years and uh my goodness gracious man that went fast oh sure did welcome guys you're debt free how much did you pay off $97,257 all right and how long did this take? About seven years. Seven years. Very cool. What kind of debt was that? It was a car and student loan. It's a medical.

Okay. A lot of student loan. Okay. All right. Very, very cool. Now, we've got a rule we don't ask incomes because we've got half the dadgum building standing around here watching you. Unfair to tell all your coworkers what your incomes are.

So we don't do that but uh we do want to hear the story so um how in the world you it looks so you've been here six years it took seven years so most of the debt-free journey has been while you're working here yes but you started before you came here tell us the story yeah um. Well, let's see. We learned about budgeting when we got married. Our pre-counselor had us read. I think it was Total Money Makeover. I like this counselor.

Had us do a budget. But it wasn't really until 2015. A friend of ours who used to work here, Zach Bennett, he was like, hey, you guys should take FBU. And so he gave us a kent, and we went to his class in early 2015, and then he convinced Gray to start the process of trying to apply here. So that's kind of when we started our journey. Oh, okay. Yeah, it is a process to get on here. It's like getting on with the FBI or the CIA.

We're very difficult organization to join,ia we're very difficult to uh organization to join but we're really good to you once you get here so very cool stuff in six years man yeah it's been spectacular started with the smart dollar team go smart dollar all right there we go yeah then moved over to the data platform team with Ramsey Plus. Okay. There we go. And it's been a wild ride. Yeah. We had two kids, so we had to stop and have two stork funds. And our middle daughter had two eye surgeries, had to cash flow some car repairs, some moves.

So it's been a long journey. Yeah. So how long have y'all. So it's been a long journey. Yeah. Yeah. So how long have y'all been married? 14 and a quarter years. Okay. So half of that time you used just sitting around with the debt, and the other half you used getting rid of it. I like it.

So how does it feel to be free, y'all? It's amazing. Just to get that monkey off your back is an amazing feeling. You wake up, and you can stand up straighter because you don't have that stress just slowly pressing you down. I'm curious how this environment encouraged you, what it mean to you. Because you guys are in this journey. You had several pauses, right, and things you had to do. This was a tough journey.

It's a long time. And here you are every day i'm just curious what the environment here did or did not do uh for you as you were in the slog this is a building of really weird people and amazing really supportive people i've got a whole bunch of friends co-workers uh team members and it is so refreshing to come into work. Hey, I had this setback. I was able to do some DIY on this car. I was able to take this profit sharing or anything else and apply it towards debt.

And you're celebrated for it. And it's such a supportive environment. And I've grown immensely for it because everyone here is getting better constantly over every day. And they press you to get better. And it's spectacular. He's got the Walk the Talk t-shirt on, too. We had an internal thing. We decided that if we're going to tell everybody to get out of debt and do the stuff in financial peace university we ought to be doing it we ought

to be welcome to talk right and so we we got the whole team back through financial peace university the whole team checking their baby steps and leveling up and uh we've had had quite a campaign we had a 28 million dollar change in position last year among team members and tracking uh and that would be mortgages paid off investments made savings done debt paid off and it's pretty incredible uh among a thousand people to do that much money and you guys are obviously on this journey right in the middle of that walk the talk thing absolutely uh over the past uh over the last year and a half of our journey uh we paid off $70,000 worth of debt. Goodness.

Yeah. Like all of a sudden. Yeah. Basically, we took that challenge you guys did very seriously and basically nose down, went straight for it. Yeah. Didn't see a single eating out incident. Not one of those incidents.

I love that. It was an incident. Did you sell a bunch of stuff? I mean, that's a lot of money. We put basically any money that came in extra. So any like profit sharing, stimulus money, any kind of of gift money all of that went into it we did sell a lot of a lot of stuff oh you're looking at it was a graze or anything that either one of you regret i mean it was hard you don't regret it you used it to get out of debt but it hurt bad to

sell it i don't think not really oh all right it's just stuff what was the biggest thing you sold? Oh, gosh. I don't know. Probably baby stuff because we're done. Okay. So really what you did was a lot of little stuff. A lot of little stuff. Ray's really happy, Dave, that they're done with babies. When she made that pronouncement, he was very, very excited about that.

You caught on. He stood up a little straighter. I like it. Very good, you guys. Very good. Well, listen, the whole team's proud of you. We're honored a little straighter. Yeah. I like it, yeah. Very good, you guys. Very good. Well, listen, the whole team's proud of you. We're honored to have you on our team. You're quite a young man.

You do a great job and have been here a long time, six years, and we appreciate you. And we're really excited for you. Proud of you. You're out of debt. Who was cheering you on other than your coworkers and your wife? My family, her friends we've got good community around here and yeah yeah and i posted monthly updates to social media and so we had people all over the country who were um cheering us on very cool good and you brought the kiddos with you bring them up what. What are their names and ages? We've got Evelyn, seven.

Nora, who just turned five yesterday. And Liza. All right, Liza. She's almost two. Very cool. Very cool. Have they been practicing their debt-free screen? A little bit.

A little. Maybe a little bit. All right. Good stuff. All right. Evelyn, Nora, Liza, get ready. Gray and Becca. Man, Gray Sanborn, team member here for the last six years.

$97,000 paid off in seven years. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! And the crowd goes wild oh i love it love it love it love it that is so fabulous uh man you know i i often tell our team in a staff meeting it would be a shame for you to work here all these years and not actually have done the stuff we teach and, you know, get out of debt, become wealthy, and make sure you have your insurance in place and your wills and all that kind of stuff.

I mean, we're kind of on you about it. It's not like it's a requirement to work here. We just want you to win. We love you. It's that simple. So, hey, if you ever find yourself uh saying one day one day i will be out of debt one day i'll get a house one day i'm going to be happy with my career well you may want to come to our oh man the smart conference it is coming up in dallas craig

groeschel just a few minutes ago we'll be on, he and his wife Amy, on marriage. Kevin Coleman, number one best-selling author, will be speaking on career. I'll be speaking. George Camel, Rachel Cruz, Dr. John Deloney. Man, Christina Ellis. Lots of surprises and extras coming. It's only $39. It's all day long on October 22nd in Dallas.

You can still get your tickets, and you should get them soon if you want to go because we are approaching a sellout. RamseySolutions.com slash events and check it out. This is The Ramsey Show. so so Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose is my co-host today thank you for joining us Don is with us in Kansas hey Don welcome to the Ramsey show how you doing gentlemen great man how can we help I've got a question I've been following your baby steps for a little while me and the wife, and we've got everything paid off debt-free but the house.

Good. And we've been paying extra on the house, but I know you said to pump the brakes. I'm transferring my post-9-11 GI bill to my kids for college, so we've got that taken care of. But I'm wondering if it makes sense with the way the markets are right now, and we're locked in at 1.75 on our mortgage to just pay the minimum and then maybe take that extra and invest it

or does it make more sense to go ahead and just knock it out, you know, and get it off our chest? Baby, step four is 15% of your income going into retirement. Five is kids college. Everything else goes on six to pay off the house as soon as possible. Now, here's the reason I'm going to stick with that because

it works. That's why I'm going to stick with it. When we studied the 10,167 millionaires with the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America. We found they typically had the people that have $1 to $5 million net worth, their first $1 to $5 million. They typically had two major components to that. One was a wonderfully funded 401k Roth IRA, and this two was a paid-for house. The number of those millionaires that told us that they maximized their investing by not paying off their house was minuscule.

It was approaching zero. So the vast majority of those people who built wealth went ahead and paid off the house. And so they didn't try to play the downside on the market i like your style that while everybody else is freaking out and running you're going to run into the burning building which i like i i agree with your math analysis i think you're probably the market's on sale it's a good time to buy it and if i got a 1.75 golly i really i kind of like the way you're thinking but i'm gonna stick with this basic idea that over time continues to work which is get the house paid off and fund your retirement and then fund everything is maxed out and baby step seven

after the house is paid off so you're gonna just be glad that house has paid off later. Yeah. Again, Dave, the data and then just you for 30 years, it works. And, you know, some people go, well, I'm going to try to play the math this way. And at the end of the day, that house is going to be a tremendous investment and I think a much more stable investment than playing the stock market, obviously. I mean, you're going to have both. You're going to have both you're both going and that's fine and i do i have both but um i'm just gonna the temptation to buy the mutual funds while they're on sale is real yeah

and that's the right way to look at the situation that we're in in the economy right now instead of going oh god i gotta cash out no that's the exact wrong way to look at the situation that we're in in the economy right now instead of going oh god i gotta cash out no that's the exact wrong way to look at it both cases i'm still gonna tell you do the same thing but i'm dealing with different emotions and you know one is run into it what is it buffett says be greedy when others are cautious and cautious when others are greedy and he doesn't mean greedy like you know he means like just be aggressive with your investing. Kenny is with us. Kenny's in Dixon, Tennessee.

Hi, Kenny. How are you? I'm good, sir. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up? Well, I have a question for you, sir. I can't hear you.

Your phone's screwing up. Can you talk directly into it or get it where it'll work? Yes, sir. Can you hear me now? Yes, sir. That's much better. I apologize. I began my firefighting career, my grandfather got me into it when I was 13 years old. When I got old enough, I chose that career path, and I've been in it ever since. I've been involved in firefighting, EMS, emergency management for a long time now, and unfortunately, that is a career that does not pay very much.

My wife and I are in about $83,000 worth of debt. We journeyed down the Ramsey Plan, and we are starting Baby Step 2, and we're starting to snowball stuff. We want to go to the Financial Peace University, but unfortunately where we are right now, it's just not a possibility. My question for you is at what point in time do you step back and look at your career choice

and something that you love and say this is not going to be financially possible? Do you give up something that you love, a career that you love, to have financial peace in the future? Or do you continue with something that you love a career that you love to have financial peace in the future you can think it was something that you love yeah are you working three your phone's still screwing up are you working 72 on 72 off no sir i work 16 on 48 off okay so what's your side hustle uh we actually do DoorDash and Amazon Flex.

Is that the – because I know a lot of firemen that have really good small businesses that they work in their downtime. Yeah, I thought about starting – I know one guy made 150 grand building decks last year. I'm not that handy. Okay. Yeah, but you have other talent. So, Kenny, there is a false narrative that's swirling around in your head that says that you have to give up being a fireman that you love in order to get out of this debt and then beyond the debt have financial peace. I mean, we've talked to thousands of people who have made less than you and have paid off debt.

So you can pay off the debt. But Dave is leaning the right direction here with you, which is what can you do? What talent do you bring to the table that allows you? You don't have to be handy, but what else can you do in that off time to maybe double your income? I don't think that's a pie-in-the-sky idea. What could you do? What pops into your mind? I thought about looking into security work.

Great. But you need more ideas. How about five or six different ideas? And you start to go, can I get paid? What can I look at? Would I get paid hourly if you just break that down as a fireman? What could you do in other places where you've got relationships, you've got some skill set and experience you're bringing to the table because using that fireman schedule to your benefit is the better play i don't think you have to choose to walk away from being a fireman because here's the reality if you try to go to a different career path kenny uh there's probably some getting qualified that's involved here that's time and money and you said you don't have any money so i'm looking at a better side hustle and using that time wisely you and your wife you can do this yeah i know you can do it and but it is you know um

and the other thing too is it may be that a move towards a more metropolitan area, the rural fire departments, you know, they don't pay as much. That's correct. In a lot of cases, not every case. But firemen with the kind of experience he's got across the board with EMS and everything else, EMTs and everything else, he can, um, he could move into a more populated area and possibly really increases income. Yeah. Now that's a major choice because I'm sure his roots run deep in that community. But, um, but that, that's a possibility. Sometimes

you have to do that if you're going to stay in. So, you know, there's different things you can trade off here. Um, but you don't have to trade off financial peace university we'll give that to you yes we'll put you through and uh you lied you can't afford it you just didn't want to spend it but i'll give it to you anyway i want you to go through and i want you to go through the nine lessons and get in a group and make sure your spouse is going through it with you and get on a budget. But let's do something that is more lasting. I mean, there's nothing wrong with DoorDash as a short-term game. No. But that's not a 10-year play.

No. Well, when you are intense, gazelle intensity, and you're going to get real familiar with that in Financial Peace University, you have to say, how much time am I spending in the car delivering? And then what am I actually making? Because, see, you're not just getting paid to deliver. You also have an expense of gas, maintenance issues. So where can I maximize my time for the most amount of money? Because you will get to a stage very soon.

This is a season, not a sentence, Kenny. You're in a season of hustle and you guys can get through this and then you'll love getting back into that full-time fireman work but right now skills are simply shovels to just dig dig dig and get out of this there you go go get paid the most you can get paid that's how that works ken coleman ramsey personality my co-host today james and andrew and zach and and Ben and Austin and Will in the booth with Kelly. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back.

Hey, folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? It's your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.