The Ramsey Show - App - How Can I Set Healthy Boundaries When Helping Others? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 23, 2022

Rachel Cruze & Dr. John Delony discuss: Setting boundaries when helping someone, Owing money to family, The aftermath of day trading. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving in Storage Studio. What's up, America? It's the Ramsey Show. We are hanging out to have a conversation about your life, your relationships, your mental health, your money, all of it. I'm John Deloney, joined here by best-selling author and all-around pretty good human being, Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls on whatever's going on in your life. 888-825-5225. Calls toll-free, 888-825-5225. Is that how you intro George and Ken?

Like overall good human being or is that like my intro? No, because they're not. You say it every time we're on the show together. So I'm like, is that mine? You're a good person. Or is that like, do you say that about everyone? Oh, I see. Overall good human being.

As though we're on a date. And you're like, oh, do you tell everybody that they're pretty? Is that what you're asking? Overall good human being, I'm going to take as my own. I'm claiming it. That is my title. I've never said George Campbell is an overall good human being. Okay, good.

Just making sure. Because I'm committed to telling the truth on this show. That's just like one of the things. It's one of the things. Let's go to Jenny in Charlotte. What's up, Jenny? Hey, Dr. John. Hey, Rachel.

Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? You're more than a pretty good human being there, Dr. John. Hey, Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help? You're more than a pretty good human being there, Rachel. Come on. Come on, Dr. John. I appreciate you. I appreciate you, Jenny.

I'm so glad you're the first call to the show. Pandering. You just filled my soul. I'm just joking. I'm just kidding. I do want to tell Rachel quickly. Every Christmas, at least one person I know gets Smart Money, Smart Kids as a book. Yeah, you're pretty great.

I'm so glad. Thanks for making that book. Changing the next generation. I love it. That's right. That's right. Quick question for you guys. I'm going to try to make a long story short.

Austin was so great talking to him. We live in a pretty wealthy area of Charlotte where you hardly ever see a homeless person. Last week, I saw a gal tucked way behind, not holding a sign, not asking for anything. So my ultimate question is regarding boundaries with a non-family member, but a homeless person that I've gotten to know pretty well over the last week or so, because I've been doing, you know, a day routine of like, let's write down your goals. Where do you want to go next? She's obviously kind of a user, not kind of a user. She is a user. And so when I met her that day, we chatted for a little bit, said, what would you

like? She said, can you get me a sandwich? Sure. Came back, talked to her more. And I told her that I called all the local shelters in the area and all five of them had a wait list. And three of them required a substance abuse program first. And she said, well, thanks for looking into that. You know, I left later that night when my husband got home, it was raining and he said, let's just go check on her. I know you probably can't stop thinking about her. Went back to check on her. She just really wanted to go back home. She was 35 miles away that someone just gave her a ride, hopefully to, you know, get to a nicer area like ours. So we paid for an Uber for her to go back home with, you know, her two shopping carts worth of things. And unfortunately I did give her my phone number because I just wanted to make sure she was safe. She got back that 35 miles and now she's

calling me constantly, like a few times a day. And now we've kind of whittled down the conversations from an hour and a half to now five minutes. And I'm just trying to encourage her, Lisa, did you go take your bike up to Bojangles? Are you looking at your kids' names every day? What's your three-week goal? What's your three-month goal? And how do you be a giving believer, but not an able? And how do I get rid of my guilt of like, oh man, I just wanted to move in with me, which won't happen. But how do I get rid of my guilt of like, oh man, I just wanted to move in with me, which won't happen. But how do you guys handle someone that needs a lot, but like I said, don't want to enable?

And I'm a huge fan of Dr. Henry Cloud's book, but he talks more about relatives and not new, really in need friends. Hmm. So here's how me and my family have navigated this. One, this is the way the Delonys do it, okay? So this isn't a prescription. I err on the side of overloving than I do underloving. And it was a conversation I had with a psych professor, one of my close mentors several years ago, when he said, I stopped asking,

why won't that person quit drinking? And I started asking, what is gone so sideways in this person's life? Who hurt this person to the degree that what choices were made downstream, that this is the only way they can get through a day. And that was a transformative moment for me because it allowed me to walk in, be in relationship with somebody instead of walking towards somebody with my judgment in hand. Right? So in our house, we do err on the side of I'm going to be over giving. And I also have had to come to terms

with this, and this is hard. Two important facts. One, often the downstream things are three things. The downstream things like goal boards and are you doing these activities? Those all come behind, I need a place to sleep and I need food and I need water. Right. Um, we often want to solve these big existential issues with folks and they're just hungry. Right. Or, um, they're drinking because of what they had to do this morning to get food. Right. And so it's, that's, that's number one. Number two, you've seen it presence is often um once the basic needs are met human connection and presence is intoxicating it's such a powerful thing right and that's it doesn't surprise me that you're getting calls all the time here's where i struggle

most is i have to recognize my limitations and i've got to let professionals in my local area who are tied into resources who are connected to addiction therapists i've got to let professionals in my local area who are tied into resources, who are connected to addiction therapists. I've got a lot of grad school. I'm not, I'm not a trauma risk. I mean, I can respond to trauma. I'm not a long-term, I got to know my limitations is what I'm saying. Um, and here's the final thing. And this one's the hardest. Eventually somebody has to decide that they want to make their life different. And you can put food in front of folks, you can provide resources, and you can provide care, but somebody at some point has to make the decision that they are going to accept resources,

they're going to get on the wait list, they're going to start taking their meds, they're going to go sit with a local pastor, a local church who's got resources to help in the gap between the shelters, right? Someone's going to have to decide, I'm going to be willing to be a part of that. You can't make somebody be well, I guess is what I'm trying to say. And ultimately, people, I think, have to come to, like, how can I sleep tonight and I've got friends who let people just come stay at their house and I've got friends who write enormous checks and I've got friends who work at the rescue mission here in Nashville I got friends who are all in all different spectrums and ultimately I'm not going to get in the business of judging somebody I am in

the business of what if as for me in my house, right? And I think that's where ultimately where you have to live. Yeah, it's true. In my house, we serve the Lord. Yeah. And here's what that looks like. You're a pretty remarkable woman. Yeah. Incredible. Not many people would stop, let alone have the steps that you took. And even feeling like, gosh, I'm thinking about her on a rainy night and then actually making the steps to go do something. Yeah. So Jenny, your heart's just amazing. I just want to encourage you in that. But I think at the end of the day, what John said, my always basic line is,

you can't be the hero in everyone's story. Like, there's a factor that they have to play as well, where that encouragement comes in from you, possibly, from time to time, right, and what you're banded with is. But being able to hand her the resources that she needs from the basics to even the mental health, like John was saying, I think it's really wise. So I would reach out to folks in your area. They've got wait lists. Great. I would reach out to local pastors, to local social workers, and see if you can get her connected with some

resources that would be bridge resources until she can get a place to stay. Thank you so, so much for having a great heart. We'll be right back. welcome back to the Ramsey show I am Rachel Cruz hosting today with Dr. John Deloney. All right, Justin is up next in Denver. Hey, Justin, welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hi, John. Read both of your books. Loved them.

Oh, thanks so much. Well, thanks for calling. Yep. How can we help? My wife and I are in baby step two. We paid off $40,000 in the last five months. Wow. Congratulations. told us that he was forgiving the $7,000 balance of a $10,000 family loan that they loaned us prior to our marriage. That's generous.

Yeah, they live close by and they come over often. And I fear that in the future, once they forgive this debt, if I continue on they will uh i i just fear facing them do you fear facing them like ego wise or is this loan forgiveness come with strings federal government like no my my wife says and swears up and down that they are not like that. And I believe her. Okay. And she's, she's on board with me. She hates owing anybody any money. This is our last debt before we move on to baby step three. And, and I, I just can't bring myself to feel right about the forgiveness.

Why not? Well, the original family loan was for her to pay for a lawyer fees. Um, her ex-husband and her daughter, um, per the divorce agreement or whatever, we're supposed to stay in the same County as her husband, um, for a visitation or whatever. And she wanted to move in with me prior to us getting married. And, um, that created, um, a family law court case, um, which she needed a lawyer for. So from my perspective, I saw her parents as taking a bet on me when her biological father would not do that. Um, they bet on our relationship. relationship. It's been a very rocky marriage

just because of the ends of the spectrum that both of us fall on. She's a mental health counselor. I'm retired army. So they're betting on our marriage from my point of view. And it just pains me to have this debt forgiven. Let me reframe this. Let me reframe this. I don't think anybody's betting on anybody. Sounds like a mom and dad who love their daughter. And it sounds like a mom and dad who love their daughter and trust you. Nobody's gambling on anything here.

And so, and your marriage, by the way, isn't been rocky because you're in the army and she's a mental health counselor. It's because it's just been rocky. Make some different choices. Know what I mean? Like don't over dramatize this. It sounds a lot like you don't like the ego of this. I mean, this is about your ego. That's what it sounds like.

And if I'm you, I would walk over to his house or drive over there and I'd knock on his door and I'd stick my hand out and shake his hand, if not hug him and say thank you. And then when you are on more secure financial footing and you feel compelled to pay the $7,000 back and you're in a position to do so, then go do it at that point and let some space happen between there. Or if suddenly he's holding this over your head and weaponizing it, then go take out a loan at a credit union and give him his money back. But this sounds a lot like ego, man. And this isn't the moment for ego. This is a moment to say, thank you.

I'm grateful. But you've created a conflict. Like they're betting on this. Dude, just say thank you, man. And then be about making your marriage stronger. Yeah. And Justin, do you, is there patterns with your relationship with them that's causing you to get here? Because at this point, I feel like you said that it's been a pretty good relationship

with them and you haven't seen anything. But have you, deep down, is there something that you're like, oh God, they've made that comment, that comment, that comment that's helped you write this story? Or is it just, it just feels so, I mean, you just kind of can't believe, oh my gosh, that this debt, he's going to just forgive it, and then you kind of start rattling around in your head with it. I'm not really sure what's going on with that. I know that, you know, over the last nine, ten months now, I've had a lot of shame in my life. I quit drinking 10 months ago.

And so there's a lot of shame. I destroyed some relationships. And the worst one was trust with my wife. And I'm trying to rebuild those relationships. And it seems like my life is closing in on me. I'm getting the help that I need. Excellent. Let me tell you something that's counterintuitive to the space you're in.

The space you're in, especially with your training, is that you are going to grab control. I'm going to, quote, unquote, solve this. I screwed something up, fix it, right? That's the mentality. And there is some truth to that. You've got to do right by your wife. You've got to repair that relationship. And that comes with doing different things. But globally speaking, grabbing the wheel tighter is not going to stop the spin of this thing. It's releasing releasing that and what that looks like is going to somebody's house

and saying thank you the word that nobody likes to use is vulnerability and that's the only path forward for you and vulnerability for for a veteran is counterintuitive i'm rolling you could hurt me right now and i I'm going to go anyway, because you're my wife, because you're my in-laws, you're my family now. And I'm going to trust that you won't hurt me. And I'm going to say, thank you. And I'm going to go on to being a good man. Is that fair? Yes. Thank you very much. But listen, brother, I want you to look at this not as, like I told the previous caller, this isn't some kind of moral failure.

This is a set of skills you don't have, and you've got to learn some new skills, and you've got to practice them. Is that cool? Yes. So practice accepting help. Practice saying thank you. And then practice saying, I'm sorry, how can we make this right? Okay.

Is that cool? Yes. Go make your marriage good, man. You're worth can we make this right? Okay. Is that cool? Yes. Go make your marriage good, man. You're worth that. It's good, Justin. Appreciate you, man. And that's a lot of courage. It's a bold call, man.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a brave guy. I really appreciate you calling, Justin. But there's a level in all of this, right, in our lives, whether it's within our marriage, within our money, anything new, even accepting a gift, right? All of it. To your point, I'm like, when you don't have the practice and the skills, it is so uncomfortable and it is so scary.

But continuing to step into it and continuing to take a step, it takes courage, a different level of courage than I feel like our world talks about. Well, it's relational courage, which is like if Suzanne fires me, she takes my job from me, right? But my identity is with my wife and kids, whatever. If I lose that, then I've got to, that's a long road, right? I don't know who I am. I'm untethered to everything, right? And so there's something incredibly courageous about leaning into someone that you love and

care about who is part of you, which is your wife, your husband, your spouse, your kids and saying, I'm sorry. Thank you. How do I do this right? Like we just don't have, we don't have a culture that says, I'm sorry. How do I make this right? We have one that says fix it. And when we fix it, we try to grab control of it.

Yes. And sometimes you got to do the opposite of what your training is. Yeah, which is so scary. And that's the vulnerable piece when you're not used to that. And it's like, okay, I really am. I'm going to let go of the wheel in a sense. And other people who have spent their whole lives with their hands off the wheel, equally courageous, you've got to grab the wheel.

You've got to take some control here. And so so some people are listening going like okay i should look like you got to know you and everybody's situation is different it's it's doing the if you here's the thing look at the pattern of behavior in your life look back and say is this working this is your four and my marriage is still a mess me getting angry angry every time this, or me going to watch Netflix every time, or grabbing another drink every time, that's not working. Let's try something else. Do the courageous thing that makes your body uncomfortable

because that usually is the right thing. Yeah, trying something new. The next hard thing. That's so good. Well, thanks again, Justin, for calling. It's awesome. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll see you next time. are you sick of planned obsolescence you, when companies make products crappy so you have to buy more of their crappy products? Well, me too.

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Good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call. How are we doing? I'm very well. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. What's up? How can we help? Okay. In the last couple of months, it has come to light that there's been some pretty significant financial infidelity from my husband who got involved in day trading and has subsequently lost about $150,000. Whoa. I know. It's a giant pill to swallow and one that I'm just honestly still in shock about. I still can't believe it. I just can't believe it.

So this is a combination of about $105,000 in personal loans and about $42,000-ish in credit card debt. All of this was within the last maybe six, seven months. It happened very quickly, and honestly, it's all just come out now. And so my concern is that the minimum amount for all of this debt combined is about $4,800 a month, which is a, that's the minimum. And my question to you is, what do you think about me taking out a HELOC loan, which hopefully would be able to pay off all of this debt. And then it's like a more manageable monthly payment for me, you know, because quite frankly, we've got two small kids. There's $4,800 a month in minimum payments. It's crippling.

I don't even know how do you do this for the rest of time, you know, because if you're only paying the minimum, that's what we're looking at. Oh, gosh. I can hear it on you. Oh, my gosh. Thank you oh my gosh one I'm sorry I'm so sorry um thank you thank you I want to first norm what's going on inside of you you are right to be maniacally angry and you are right to be stunned and in shock and grieving and upset and scared and anxious. All of those things are right. Okay. I just don't want you to feel like you're going crazy. You probably are going to feel like you're going crazy, but not because your feelings are wrong. Okay. Um, I would be having all of those things too. What is your, what is your entire

homes? Uh, what, what is your take home income as a family? Together, we're at $250,000 annually. Okay. I'll let Rachel hop in here. Here's what I want to tell you. Do not make a mess even messier. Okay. Okay. I know you can't breathe right now your breath will come back to you you'll have a big cell or you've got a huge huge mess on your hands yeah what often happens is let's take regular infidelity okay somebody you find out somebody you love has cheated on you romantically yeah there's this i want to fix it i want to i want to solve all this right this second so that we can get back to quote unquote the way things were sure Sure. And what you want to do is you are hurting so bad right now. You've got this magic HELOC that you want to solve it all and you want to go do that and take it out

and just get back to the way things were and then we'll figure it out later in a more manageable way. Yeah. The best way forward is for you to realize, your husband to realize, what y'all knew before is now over. You're living in relationship 2.0. Right. And you've got to rebuild what this thing's going to look like together. And I think, personally, what led your husband down this path is something he's going to have to heal from personally. And y'all are going to have to heal from personally and y'all going to have to heal relationally and a quick band-aid fix over this or just moving debt from one arm to the other does not solve that it kicks the can down the road y'all got to deal with this i'd love to see him

go get a second job a third job and make this like crank this sucker out on behalf of his family and make this thing happen. But just trying to jump in and solve it and fix his problem is not the best thing for your marriage, for your financial security, for your kids long term. Yeah, Kate, not to make light of the situation, but one of my favorite quotes from Warren Buffett, which we used a lot during the COVID pandemic, was people make the worst decisions with money when they're drunk or when they're afraid. And you are that second. And so the fear that I hear from you, which I get, I have three little kids. And if that bomb was dropped on me, yeah, you can't breathe. I mean, the fear of knowing how are we going to pay our bills? How

am I going to get food on the table? I feel this complete whiplash in a marriage sense from my husband, the secrets that I had no clues. You're dealing with that on one side and then the tactical nuts and bolts of being a mom with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to do this? So I'm so sorry. I hurt so much for, I hurt so much for you. Um, but I don't want you to make a bad financial decision because you're in fear. And so what John was saying is so right. Just take a breath. Okay. And that will come easier and easier with time, but don't getting a HELOC. It moves the problem from one to the other. And yes, it can feel like, okay, the payments may be a little bit different, but that keeps you guys in this mess and in this memory longer and longer and longer.

And so in a dream world, you and your husband sit down, Kate, together and you say, okay, we make $250,000. You bring home probably around $15,000 a month after taxes and say, well, now we have this new $5,000 payment. So here's what we can afford in our budget to pay as is. And I don't know what that looks like for you guys. We don't have time to unpack every number of your budget, but say you have two, three, $3,000 left at the end of your budget in general, right? And then you're like, okay, we got to make up whatever the difference is. Is it another 2000 you got to make up? And then I want you to add on more to that because like you were saying, just paying the minimum payment, you're gonna be paying interest

and all of this stuff. It just keeps going and going. And so how can you attack it? And so I want you guys to run numbers together, get a spreadsheet out, get a calculator out and just say, okay, scenario one, you take an extra job and you're going to make X amount per month. Here's how quickly timeline wise we can pay this debt off. We can pay it off in three years and two months. If you take two jobs and you work four nights a week, five nights a week, we can pay it off in two years and eight months and run scenarios, Kate. Okay. Sit there with a yellow pad because what's going to happen is, and John says this all the time, facts are your friends. When you start to see numbers, not just fear in your head and not having a plan, but when you actually see numbers

on a sheet of paper, that logic is going to help you navigate the best decision. And, and man, you guys have a hard three to four years ahead of you, Kate. You do. And, and that is the unfortunate part of marriage that when you are in a unified relationship, it is now your debt, even though it was his decision that he went down this road. And so I would, the anger is real and justified all of it. Um, so I don't want you to shy away from those things because that is very real. And that's going to be part of your healing process towards him. Kate, I wish you could feel this. I can feel

the anger on Rachel right now. It just pisses me off, Kate, for you. It does. And what I wonder too, and this is John's lane, but I'm like, what he was going through, what was the thing, right? Is there an addiction there that he's like, I think I can do it. It's almost a gambling feeling of this day trading.

Is it that he wanted something else? It has to be this. I mean, I think I could do it. It's almost a gambling feeling of this day trading. Is it that he wanted something else? It has to be this. I mean, I've looked at every scenario, and this can only be. It's day trading addiction. It's not necessarily gambling like at the casino. In my mind, it's the same thing. It is. It comes from the same place.

Kate, did you, not that this matters, did you find out on your own or did he come and tell you? To be honest with you, I just had this feeling something wasn't right. And I just looked at him, I said, tell me right now what's happening. And he just broke down. And I, he only told me a little bit at a time. It wasn't that bad. And then a little bit and then a little bit more a little bit more and then honestly just in the last few weeks did the extent of this come out so i'm in the deer and headlights right now i mean he's not day trading anymore and um i have direct deposit his paycheck comes right to me so there is no more money to yeah but i mean now i'm left with having to carry this burden and make the decisions. Who do I pay this month? Who do I not? I'm kind of left dealing with this.

Can't do it alone. You don't do it alone. You bring him and if you guys have a good pastor, a good therapist, a good counselor in the area, do that, Kate. And hold on the line. We're going to give you guys Financial Peace University, and it's not going to be the silver bullet in this situation, but I hope at least getting on the same page with money and that you guys have the same shared goal

and same vision is going to be really important. So Austin will pick up and give that to you guys for a year, but I'm so sorry, Kate. I'm so sorry. Sick to my stomach. Don't do anything for six months. Just hang in there. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Rachel Cruz with Dr. John Deloney taking your calls at 888-825-5225. And up next, we have John in New York. Hey, John, welcome to the show. Hey, guys. Big fan of the show.

Hi, John. Hi, John. Hi, Rachel. How are you today? We're doing great. Thanks for giving us a call. How can we help? All right, I have a tough one. Okay.

I have $170,000 remaining balance on my 15-year fixed mortgage. Okay. 2.0% rate, so it's a great rate. Financial advisor and accountant insist I should not pay it off. As they all do. However, I have about $170,000 in savings. The problem is I skipped the baby step, and I have no college savings for the kids.

Oh, okay. If I pay it off, I have no other debt. I can immediately start that. So I did skip that baby step. What's your mortgage? $170. No, what do you pay every month in your mortgage? Principal and interest is about $2,600.

Okay. How old are your kids? Not including the property tax. $11, $7, and $5. Okay. And household income is about $ 5. Okay, okay. And household income is about $400 a year. Oh, nice. Okay, okay.

Can I tell you what I'm doing in my house? Yes, sir. If I have a 12-year-old and a 6-year-old, and if I was in your exact same boat, and I had $170,000 in savings, I would pay my house off before the end of the day is over. Full stop. You know, I've always gotten the, yeah, I love it. I've always gotten the advice that,

God willing, I can continue to work. And when they start college, I'd pay for that out of my earnings. So I never really, you know, started anything up. Yeah. With the anticipation that I would hopefully pay this off. Absolutely. Yep. If I pay it off though, emergency fund is gone. So I should probably wait a few months to get that. Yeah. I was going to say, don't cash it all out. That's including your emergency fund too? Yeah. I think so. Don't do that. Yeah. Keep a little bit. That's including your emergency fund too? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. Yeah, don't do that. Yeah, keep three months. And then, yes.

But write a big check tonight. I mean, have a level of it to be like, oh, okay, we're getting there. And yes, what you're saying with your income. Yeah, with your income level, obviously depending on where your kids go to school, because they all won't be in school together at the exact same time, that you may be able to cash flow it completely

just off of your income. But the question is, yeah, will you have that same level of income in 10 years? Let me do this. Here's some back of the napkin math, okay? I'm just using my cell phone calculator here. If you take that $2,600 that you pay every month and multiply it by 12, that's $31,000 a year

you're sending, not including your taxes. Okay. Your child is 11. Is that what you said? Your oldest? Yes. Okay. So it's seven years until they go to college. So if I just take $31,000 times seven, that's $218,000. That's $220,000 that you can have by not changing your life in any shape, form, or fashion, just continuing to pay your mortgage. See what I'm saying? Yeah. That's not cash flowing. That's just if you just kept making your mortgage payment and stuck it in a zero sum, I mean a zero percent earning checking account.

You'd still be way ahead of most parents. So you feel, you know, do this in two steps, do a big chunk, build the emergency fund up, get it to three months and then finish it off. Yeah. Otherwise you're going to write $170,000 check and you're going to go screaming down Manhattan Boulevard tonight, so happy. And then tomorrow morning your air you're going to write a $170,000 check and you're going to go screaming down Manhattan Boulevard tonight, so happy, and then tomorrow morning your air conditioner is going to break. And then you're not going to be happy anymore. The fact that it's a good rate and it's 2% and it's an attractive mortgage, so to speak,

that has no bearing, whether my rate's 2% or 5%. It really doesn't yeah and that's what makes us weird this is why this is where we're different than majority of a financial advisor or a tax pro out there or at least ones that we don't recommend at Ramsey but the norm out there is that they're playing a math game John so on the math side could you invest that mortgage payments you know or or keep the mortgage not have you know have a low interest rate i mean all the math game that is played in that industry like there's a there i like we have brains like we see it we're like that i get what they're saying where you could

take this chunk of money and invest it and you could make more in the market versus what you're you know having to pay an interest on your house, all of that. Mathematically, there's a – yeah, I get it. That could happen. Yeah, but John, what freedom does to you and what peace does to you when you don't owe anyone anything changes the game. You're in downtown New York? No, suburban New Jersey. Okay.

Think back to 30 months ago i rachel and i were in downtown manhattan when they came out of broadway and said broadway is closed until further notice as covid was kicking off we were in there in march i think march yeah we had a big work events that we were doing and we were all down there yeah all the rams personalities and we were literally there yeah they cancel the go back to that moment and imagine not having a house payment. Do you give, do you give a crap what the interest rate is back then? No,

not really. No. And then the idea of, or the age old saying of cash is King and, you know, holding cash and having more than your emergency fund and just sitting on it while you have the mortgage that we, that's a fallacy in your opinion, right?

It's like cash is king but i have debt so you're solving for freedom you're solving for freedom and all when you have when you have debt and you've got savings all you're doing is holding the bank's money for them it's not your money because you owe it correct yeah so you have cash is king but you don't have cash you've got their money just in your account. So I would just give it to them. Like what does Happy Gilmore say? Just send them home.

Just send them home. Just send them home. Just send them home, man. Hey, congratulations, my brother. Yeah, John, well done. In 90 days, you're free. Free. Appreciate it.

That's it, I know. Well done, John. You've done a fantastic job. Absolutely incredible. And yeah, and that's what's interesting about what we encourage you guys to do is, again, debt is so normal and people play the math game over and over and over and over and over. And what's not in the math game is risk. What's in the math game is not fear. What's not in the math game is sleeping at night what's not in the math game is not owing anyone anything and having literally no one that has their name on

your paycheck i mean there is just something to be said that can't be put in a formula but we are as human beings like our soul who we are and how we function there's a lot there that again a tax pro isn't always going to just sit down and help you have those conversations. Well, I'm always just, this is hard, man,

but I always want to ask somebody when they're giving advice, do you stand to benefit from this advice? Right. And that's why I appreciate calling us. We're just a neutral third party out here on the airwaves. And I'll tell you what I'm going to do in my house. Right. I'm actively working to set myself up to be in the position that John is in.

Yeah, yeah. Right? For that very reason. And my interest rate is almost identical to his. It's basically nothing, right? Yeah. And it's not about the interest rate. It's about absolutely being free.

And here's the great thing, too. If you want a mortgage again after you pay it off, you can always go get one. Yeah, go borrow one. If you, like, miss it and you're like, oh, I missed the mortgage. Oh, we really want that mortgage. Pay it back. We're going to go back and get one. Your wife's going to Go borrow one. If you miss it and you're like, oh, I miss the mortgage, honey. Oh, we really want that mortgage payment back. We're going to go back and get one. You can.

Your wife's going to tell you, hey, have a candlelit dinner. Say, I have a hard thing I need to tell you. He's going to think, what is it? She'll say, I miss the mortgage. Just miss that mortgage payment. I miss that mortgage. I miss all that money. That $2,600, just leave it.

All right. Next, we have Aaron in Knoxville. Hey, Aaron. Welcome to the show. Hey, man. We're right up against the clock. Go as quick have Aaron in Knoxville. Hey, Aaron. Welcome to the show. Hey, man. We're right up against the clock. Go as quick as you can. Okay.

I got a really simple, quick question. Love it. I've started the EverDollar app this month for the first time, and I have showing $742 left remaining. I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that. Mail that to Ramsey Solutions. Attention, Rachel Cruz. I'll take it, Aaron.

Congratulations, Aaron. That's a good problem to have. Okay, do you have any savings right now? I'm currently fixing to officially start maybe step one in October. All right. I have to try to learn how to use it. I love it, Aaron. So great.

Did you get the app? Do you also have Financial Peace University? No. Okay. I want you to hold on the line. Jenna's going to pick up and we're going to get you a year subscription to Financial Peace University as well because that's going to be able to go really in-depth with this information. So, Aaron, that $700 is going to

go towards Baby Step 1 until you build up $1,000 and then any extra money you have left over in the months coming with extra work, selling stuff, cutting your budget down is going to go to Baby Step 2. It's going to help you start the debt snowball and paying off your debts. Great job, Aaron. I'm so excited for you. So excited for you. Go Vols. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.