The Ramsey Show - App - How Can I Stop Living in My Car? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz. This is your show, America. Give us a call at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money, and we'll try to help you take the right next step when it comes to your biggest life decisions, and maybe smallest. You know, it can be a first-world problem.

We're down to chat about that, too. We're here for everything. No problem, too small. Kenneth kicks us off in Houston, Texas. Welcome to The Ramsey Show, Kenneth. Hello. Hey, how you doing? I'm doing fine for now. What's going on? So I'm currently in a situation where I'm living in my car. I started in November because I racked up about $14,000 in credit cards and I have 16 on my car as well. 16,000? Yes, on my car. Where were you living before this? I was actually living in an apartment with my cousin and her boyfriend, but they decided to get their own place, so I ended up in a car. And right now you can't afford rent because of the debt? half of my paycheck every two weeks and my car payment is $346. So I'm left with about $200.

So I started this debt snowball and I managed to pay off one credit card, but it's still not enough. It sounds like we need to get your income up. Are you working full-time right now? Yes, yes I am. I actually, I submitted applications to places. I still haven't had, like, I haven't heard back yet. So what are you doing right now for work? I'm a sterilization tech. I clean dental instruments. Okay. And what do you make doing that? I make 18 an hour on my W-2. It said I made 32,000 this year. Okay. And you're working 40 hours a week? It's between that. We work half days on Fridays, sometimes full days, so between 36 and 40. Can you work extra if you chose to? Yes, I'm currently looking. Okay. I would see if you can work overtime with your sterilization job. On top of that,

getting another job on the side. I mean, $18 an hour is not nothing. And so it feels like it's not just a car loan. What's your minimum payment on the credit cards um altogether um is over 500 529 i have a spread between seven and you have uh do you have any friends or family that you could have to help support you go live with some friends for now crash on a couch, anything like that? Friends, no. Family, I do. They have offered, but the environment for me around them is I do not enjoy, so I rather stay in the car

instead of having my emotional well-being. Are you safe living in this car? Where are you actually staying? So I stay around near my job. So far, nothing has happened. I believe, I don't know how many months, like four months now. Are you able to shower and how are you doing all of that? So I actually have a gym membership. So showering, doing whatever I need to do, I can handle that at the gym. Okay. Kenneth, how much is your car worth?

I checked on Kelley Blue Book. It's at $12,000 the last time I checked. Okay. Worth $12,000. Okay. You checked. Okay, worth $12,000. You owe $16,000 some change? Yes, yes. And no money saved? No.

No. And because my biggest concern right now, Kevin, for you, yeah, is what kind of George was hinting at, but it is your living situation. I mean, one of these four walls is what we say, food, shelter, utilities, transportation. like these are things that are necessities, those are needs, and you're lacking, obviously, one of those. So the family situation, would it be, like, is there a way to at least have a roof over your head and give yourself a timeframe frame and say within 90 days I'm gonna be out of here and looking for my own place but just for the you know just the bare

necessity of you know having having a home that's what I just worried for you when it comes to that it's just having a place to stay well the place um at my family's place i would have to uh pay rent which is not much but it would i wouldn't have any left to put towards my credit cards so right now if you're working 40 hours a week at 18 an hour, it's about $2,900 a month before taxes. So how much is getting taken out of these paychecks? Are you actually looking at the paychecks and seeing where it's going? No. I know that about $180 is being taken out for insurance, but taxes-wise, I have not checked.

Okay, I would go look at that. Make sure you're not taking out too much in taxes make sure that you're not putting any money away into investments right now every dollar you can get out of those paychecks needs to go to covering your four walls like Rachel mentioned. Yeah because besides the you have the car payment the credit cards but you should have around two thousand dollars left. Because you got about 900 in payments? That's what it's looking like. I get each paycheck, it depends.

I get about the minimum at least $1,060 each month. I mean, each, every two weeks. Okay, so the first $1,000 covers your debt payments. Where's the other $1,000 going? I have no idea. Okay. So I think that's going to be a, that's a key piece to this, Kenneth. Because $1,000, I'm like, that's a significant amount, right? So I would want you to be tracking and knowing, like, this is exactly where every single dollar is going, right?

And even just going back to the basic of a budget. And we can, if you hold on the line, we'll give you every dollar premium to be able to figure out so specifically where that is. Because I don't want you, yeah, I don't want you behind on payments. In a perfect world, I want you to be able to have enough money to pay rent somewhere.

And you need to be working every weekend. I was going to say weekends and even nights, Kenneth, it's going to be exhausting, but you're, I mean, you're, you're going to have to dig yourself out of this hole. And one of the, I mean, the two ways to do that is income and expenses, right? Those are the two parts of the equation. So upping the income, lowering the expenses is going to, is going to help you gain some traction. Do you have insurance bills as well to pay outside of health care?

No, it's too much for me right now. Like auto insurance? Yeah, the minimum for me is $400. Why is that? Do you have a bad driving record? No, my driving record's good. It's just been like the least I have paid is $300. Maybe it's because I was in an accident, but it wasn't my fault.

Kenneth, you need auto insurance, man, even if it's $300. You're in a very risky position right now. Jump on RamseySolutions.com. Connect with one of our insurance pros to help you with that. And hang on the line. We'll send you every dollar premium to help you make a plan for every one of those dollars. Wishing you the best. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you,

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CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz this hour. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Maria is up next in Chicago. Maria, welcome to the show. Thank you.

What's going on? Thank you for taking my call. Oh, absolutely. I was calling because I've had this collections since my husband passed away. I think it was even before then, but I never saw it until after he passed away August 4th, 2021. So sorry. How old was he? 49. Wow.

Sudden heart attack. Oh, gosh, Maria, I'm so sorry. Thank you. I'll try to get through this without crying. No, you're okay. You take your time. You're okay. So I don't know what this is. I don't know what the, it says it's a mortgage account statement from a collection agency.

So it's up to $44,837, and I don't know what it even means. Was this for a mortgage on a house? Well, I still have the house, and I've been making payments. I've never been late or anything. It's just this one thing coming from a collection agency. Have you contacted them to verify the debt? I have not because I didn't know what I should do, you know, how I should do it. You know, I didn't know what to say to them, basically. Is the debt, was it in your husband's name?

It was in both our names. And then I noticed after he passed, it just has my name on it now. Okay. And you don't know where this is from? You don't know what it is? No, it just says, like, I was looking at, I found a paper that was back from 2015 as the statement date. And it just says at the top, real-time resolutions, mortgage account statement.

And at that time, it says the outstanding principal was $37,468, and the interest is at 7%. It says it's until August 1, 2037. Do you think this could have been some kind of second mortgage that your husband had taken out? Well, that's what I thought, but on my mortgage website, when I go in there and everything, it shows the principal. It shows the first and the second mortgage, but none of them are that same amount because I still owe $173,000 on the mortgage. Okay. I would contact this collector,

and what you need to ask for is a debt validation letter, and they legally have to provide that to you, and that's going to show exactly how much you owe, what creditor the collector is representing, and confirmation of all of the information, the balances, the account numbers, and that will help you understand what this is for and if this is legit. Okay. Make sure there's no errors on there. They just keep sending it every month. What was that? Make sure there's no errors on there. What was that? Make sure there's no errors on there. Have you pulled your credit report, Maria? No, I haven't in years. Okay. So I would do that. And it's a good thing just to check it even once a year. You can go to annualcreditreport.com and pull this for free. Don't pay for this. And you can pull it from all three credit bureaus to get a full picture of what debts are attached to your name. Yeah. Just to make sure that, yeah, you're able to see. Because,

I mean, on one end, it's either something your husband did and you were unaware of it. And now it's in, because if it's in both of your names, then yeah, then it is in your name now. Or, you know, in a weird way, it could be like identity theft someone you know got your social security number or something i mean i don't know right so you just want to make sure and validate that this is actually legitimate um and i would look for signed documents as well like if they if the collections agency has any um tracking of where it came from and you and it may be kind of a rabbit trail that you go down um because i'm sure it got sold to another collections i mean like who knows how many people have actually handled this debt uh but if yeah if you can get or even call that company

um have you even just googled that like the i have and it just says it's a collection agency but it doesn't tell me anymore you know like yeah would contact them. And here's the deal. Never give debt collectors access to your checking account. You set the terms. You let them know what your situation is. And you have 30 days. Once they send you the debt validation letter, you'll have 30 days to respond with a debt verification letter. And I'll get our team to send you a link. We've got a great blog called What is a Debt Validation Letter. We have a sample letter in there that will help you figure out how to frame this up. And we're also going to hook you up with a free financial coaching session with someone that can walk you through the details

that we don't have time to do on the air, but want to make sure that we get this handled for you. Yeah. Because it's scary. Yeah. On top of the grief. I know. And it keeps, yeah. And it keeps going up and up every month that they send me these letters that I've kept every single one of them. Good, good. Yeah. And I just don't, and I've kept every single one of them. Good, good.

Yeah, and I'm just like, I don't know what this means. I don't know what it is. He never discussed any of the mortgage or anything with me before he passed. What's your current financial situation outside of that? I'm working full-time. Yeah, I'm working full-time. Do you have kids? Well, I do have kids, but they're adults now.

The youngest is 22. Okay, so no one's relying on you. No, no. And you're able to cover all the bills with your own income? No. My daughter and my son-in-law live here too, as well as my son, and they're helping me with the mortgage. And I'm pretty much paying part of the mortgage plus utilities by myself.

Okay. Do you have any other debt? No, I just paid off my car last week. Good. Oh, good. Congratulations. So just the mortgage is left plus this weird outstanding collections debt. Correct, and I have no credit cards, never had any, you know, no other anything. Okay. Just the mortgage well i would try to

do some digging to see you know on that credit report what's in your name see if you can find any documents from the financial statements um that were in his name yeah have you looked into that i have not um i he kept everything so to go through through stuff, it would take me a while. And I work, like I said, 40 hours a week. So it's just like I need to just sit down and go through all the papers that he's kept. Yeah, maybe on a Saturday have the kids help because it's going to be hard. For sure. Because you're sort of reopening the wound in a sense as well.

Is your hunch, Maria, that this is an additional mortgage on your current home, or are you thinking there could be another property out there? No, it's got to be on this. Okay. Well, I mean, the address they're sending it to is this. It says in regards to property. Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So it could have been a HELOC that he took out. I mean, you know, I don't know. Yeah, no idea. Yeah. So yeah, I think getting to the bottom of that, but again, it may be a rabbit trail to actually get to the the actual you know lender that's holding it right um and where it originated from not just the right yeah not just the one in collections so um yep but yeah yeah i'm guessing it's got to show up on that credit report and here's the deal if the debt collector can't verify

that debt they have to stop contacting you about it and they have to let the credit bureaus know to remove that from your report. So I'm not saying that's the case. This could be a legitimate debt that you owe and maybe you can end up settling down the line. But right now we just got to get, we got to do some homework and get some info. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I just, you know, he never said a word to me about it. So I have no idea. And I just, you know, like I said, I just picked any of the papers, and I'm like, okay, I don't know what to do with this. Yeah. But, you know, I'm just concentrating on keeping the bills, you know, the utilities on and, you know, making sure that... Are you doing a budget with your income coming in?

I haven't really, but I know I need to. I just, you know, I don't spend, like, frivolously at all. You know, I just get what I need to get and that's it. That's why I don't have credit cards because I'm like, if I can't afford it, I'm not going to buy it. Wise. Wise woman. Well, we're going to hook you up with EveryDollar Premium as well to help you make a plan for every one of those dollars. And what you'll do is list your income at the top and then list all of your expenses and start with the priorities. Your food, utility, shelter, transportation, insurance bills, and then whatever's left, we can start attacking this, maybe this debt with

that's in collections. And I hope that helps. And we'll definitely hook you up with a free financial coaching session with one of our Ramsey trained financial coaches. So hang on the line and our friends will pick up and make sure that they hook you up with every dollar and that coaching session. And I'll make sure for the rest of you listening, if you're curious about that blog, if you have debt and collections, we'll put a link in the show notes and description to that blog article on our website. What is a debt validation letter? It's got a lot of great information there that can help you sort through this because these collectors, Rachel, when they start calling you, you start to panic and you just write them a check or give them access to your account. And that's a very dangerous move. You

want to stay in the driver's seat. Yeah. And they can be scary and intimidating. You know, you're like, oh my gosh, I'm in collections. Like even that word sounds so scary, but you have a lot of power in that situation and to figure out what to do. And yeah. And let this be a lesson to all of you. Talk to your spouse about what is going on in your financial world. Share all the documents with them. We call it a legacy drawer. Create a document base with everything you need, every account number, the passwords, whatever it is, so that they're not left grieving while trying to figure out what the heck was happening with the finances. That's a

scary place to be. We're thinking of you, Maria. Hope you can navigate this and get to the other side. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by my co-host this hour, Rachel Cruz. We also co-host a, I would say, a more fun show called Smart Money Happy Hour. You know. I think, yeah. From an entertainment perspective. It's more of Smart Money Happy Hour, I would say. Yeah, it's what we aim for. And so we've got a cocktail or mocktail in hand, and we talk about money through the lens of what's going on out in the world and pop culture, and we have a great time. All the trends happening out in the world and how it relates to money.

It's great. We have a good time. We have a good time together. It's got a cult-like following, Rachel. We love meeting people all over the world. You were in Disneyland, and people were like, I love Smart Money Happy Hour. They said, I love you in George. They called you out, George.

It's nice to be loved once in a while. I was getting on the barnstormer in Magic Kingdom and someone was like, Rachel, I love you in George on the Happy Hour. I was like, thank you. You just waved like you're the mayor of a small town from the ride? I was in line. That's so fun. Well, hey, we're glad you're here. Glad you're with us. It's an open phone line at 888-825-5225. And we've got a segment we've done once before on the show. I think you and Jade did it, Rachel? Yes, we did. It was so fun. It's called Pick Aside. Yeah. I've never been a part of one of these, but we have a caller with someone else on the line and we have to hear

them both out, hear their case, and then you and I have to pick a side. I love it. Are we ready for this one? Oh, I can't wait. All right, let's find out what's happening with Kiri and Diana in Columbia, South Carolina. Welcome to the show, guys. Hi. You ready to battle? We are. Okay, what's the situation? Who's going to go first? Diana wants me to spell it out and then she'll correct any inaccuracies. I like this. So we have a Stanley situation. A what? A Stanley situation. A Stanley situation.

So do you know the Stanley cups? Yeah, not the hockey, like the mugs. Not the hockey. The indestructible tumblers. Oh, we know. Oh, we know of these. And they fit in your cup holder. And they have a handle and a straw.

Absolutely. Yes. And yet somehow still leak. A little bit, yeah. No, they don't. They're very well made. Okay, so a Stanley. Oh, my gosh.

All right, what's the problem here? So we had a discussion. My 11-year-old came back from school, and she said her friends have a Stanley Cup. And she wanted to buy a Stanley Cup. And both myself and Diana have done the Financial Peace University and the Legacy course. So that all kicked in. And I was explaining to her why it didn't make any sense to spend $45 on a cup when you can buy one for six bucks at Walmart, you know. But she misconstrued it as me saying that, you know, if she bought it,

she would buy it with her own money. So my kids are very good at saving. Oh. Yes. So I get them to put about 50% of what they make. They buy silver coins from me, which I get for them. Wow. And they save a lot. How is the 11-year-old making money?

So when they get a present, but then, you know, we've got some chickens, so they sell eggs and then they babysit other people's chickens in the neighborhood. Oh, let her buy this. All right, okay, never mind. What a beautiful little old-timey world you've created. They're buying silver coins from you and they're making money from the chickens. This is like 1800s. Yes.

Except she wants a Stanley Cup. And they take part in studies where they go into the university and they do like exercises and stuff and they get paid quite well for that. That's amazing. Is she in the fifth grade, sixth grade? How, what grade is she in? She's sixth grade.

Sixth grade. Okay. And they, and they, I've got four daughters and they're all super smart kids and they understand that to give a giveaway, some of it, all of that.

So they do save. So that's not the problem. Okay. But I, I went into a rant about brands and industrial psychologists and behavioral economists trying to get us to buy stuff that we don't need. And maybe a little bit over the top. The sixth grader. Dad, I just want to say.

She probably fell asleep mid-conversation. Yes. She probably fell asleep mid-conversation. I'm a bit of a compulsive saver. I've been saving since nine. It's great. What's your take, Diana? He's saying, no, you don't need to buy this. This is just consumerism at its finest. Stanley, they know what they're doing.

What do you think, Diana? So my opinion is that you need to take each situation for what it is. My kids are good kids. Like you said, she saves a lot of money. She actually has quite a bit of guilt about spending any of her money. And I think that comes from the save-a-holic dad. That's the right word.

She is just so good at saving and so when she came and she said that she wanted to spend some of her own money on this Stanley Cup, I was so before it, I was like, if you're sticking to your

percentages of what you plan to save, what you plan to give, and what you plan to spend, that's totally fine with me because she's working hard for money. And like I said, if I was dealing with a different situation of someone that wasn't able to save and give and things like that, then I would reconsider. But because of the type of kid she is, I think it's totally reasonable. Wow. Well, you're both very convincing. I don't know if it's your lovely accents, but I'm thoroughly convinced.

Here's the funny thing. I think you're both right, and I think Diane is a little more right. I think she gets to do what she wants with this money. Hold on. Oh, we should have done a one, two, three pick aside. Well, here's the thing. I'm Team Kiri in the sense that I'm like, I would be like, well, the big Stanley's trying to get at you with their consumer marketing and its influencers.

I know. You think they're stupid. George doesn't like Stanleys. He thinks they're so stupid. So, yeah. And here's the deal. There's going to be things in life that you, I'm just going to go like, you know, sexist here.

You men may not really understand. First of all, thank you for calling me a man. I'm not even offended. You know what I there's always gonna be things there's gonna be stuff that you guys do how much you pay for your haircuts george like this is so crazy hey that's not the discussion here that's crazy i know so all that to say all that to say i'm with george i'm with diana i'm sorry carrie especially i thought y'all i thought y' were coming in and going to say that she just wants you to buy it for her. And I'm like, ooh, this would be a good. There's no entitlement here. Yeah.

No, she saved her own money. No, no, no. And Kiri, and I'm saying this as a spender daughter that grew up with a dad who sounds a little bit like you. A little save-a-holic, if you will. But to give the freedom that she needs to learn and she may regret this purchase right she may regret it but good for her to actually experience those emotions on her own versus you know trying to talk them out of everything like they need to make some mistakes i did so you're saying buying a stanley's a mistake rachel no i

didn't say this was a mistake i was saying it's stupid. It's expensive for a cup. I get it. I drove my wife's car today, and what's in the cup holder? The giant Stanley. Guess who didn't have room for his little cup? Me. The giant Stanley was taking up the whole cup holder. It is wild, though.

After I saw how bad she felt, we had all these discussions and stuff, and I'm like, you know what? I might not understand lilac and fuchsia cups. Thank you. To an 11-year-old girl. But, you know, I explained to her if this is what she wants. She was worried that I was not going to be proud of her. I said, I'll go out with her and buy 10.

I'll buy 10 for her. I said, I literally, because, you know, her, her emotional wellbeing is much more important than a cup. Sure. Sure. But I said, you know, if we were discussing this with Diana, we got, look, we've both done FPU. Why don't we call him the expert? So I actually emailed the question. Oh, there you go. And that's how we ended up on this show.

Perfect. I'm so glad you emailed. Can I ask where your accents are from? Because I want one. It's South Africa. Just lovely. You have to go live there for about 30 years and you're good. You'll get it. Have her listen to this call and have them say, Rachel and George said,

buy the cup. But I will say, we have a daughter. She's in the third grade. Even some girls in her class have Stanleys. She does not. I'm not going to buy that for you. You know what I mean? Like, I love, you know. But then it becomes, well, look what my friends are driving, Rachel.

I need a car like that. And it becomes, look at what their life is. Yeah, so there is a precedent. And what I think what you guys have done so well is you've set a norm, right? Like, the level of normalcy that your kids are experiencing is working hard, saving, giving, being wise. That's the norm. And if something kind of is abnormal for one purchase, for one thing, and it's not the baseline, that's where I say, yeah, that's great. And especially since it's her money. So great.

You guys are incredible parents. Incredible parents. Well done, you guys. Thank you so much for the call. I wish the 11-year-old could call in next time and let's hear her case and why she needs the Stanley. She'll be a millionaire by 21. You know what she's going to tell me? She's going to say, well, George, it fits in the cup holder. And it has a handle and a straw. It really works, y'all. Cups have worked for centuries.

This is not a new invention. There's been handles on things for a long time, Rachel. Not like this, though. You won't convince me. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Rachel Cruz. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Tom joins us up next in Las Vegas. What's going on, Tom? Thanks for taking my call.

You guys have got a great call screener oh thank you we got the best in the business we got taylor and christian today they're crushing it they're they're just cackling back there tom you made their day they never get this kind of affirmation from us i'm glad someone gave it to them my question is regarding the collection i recently noticed i received had a dispute with a phone company cell cell phone company, a couple years ago, and I just kind of left it at that. I got a collection letter, and I checked my credit report. It's on the credit report, and I'm going to go ahead and pay it off rather than dispute.

It's about $150. My question is how can I guarantee that they will send the paid in full to the three credit bureaus? What I'd like to do is send a letter to them saying, you send me back a certified letter that you agree to take it off the credit reporting agencies, and I will send you payment in full. Otherwise, I don't want it to linger for years and years on my credit report. What's your recommendation? Sure. So how are you going to pay for this?

Cashier's check. Okay. And make sure that's certified mail. Okay. When you send that. Do I need to send a request letter of certified mail, or can I just call them in and call them on the phone and say, send me the letter that you'll agree to take it off? Well, did they send you a payment agreement? Yeah. Well, they said you can pay over so many months, or you can pay over two months,

or just pay it in full, and I'll just pay it in full and get rid of it. Get it out of my hair. Yeah. If you make a copy of everything you send, including the cashier's check, and staple the payment agreement, the certified mail return receipt, and the copy of the cashier's check together and hold on to all of that. Okay, now I have heard somewhere that the collection agency can only report paid in full. They cannot force the credit bureaus to remove it completely as though it was never there. Do you know, is that correct? You can dispute it on your credit report once it's paid in full, and they can then remove it. Okay, after it's paid in full.

Exactly. Okay. So you shouldn't have an issue there. Great. Okay, I appreciate it. How long does that normally take once the credit agency gets my payment until it's reported to the credit bureaus? You know, I'm not sure of that specifically.

I'm sure every bureau has got a different process and a different timeline, but I can't imagine it's going to be months. I would imagine it's between, you know, 30, 60 days. Yeah, yeah. All right. I appreciate that very much. You've been very helpful. Absolutely.

I hope you have a good weekend. Thanks, Tom. Thank you, Tom. And shout out to the phone screeners. They do a heck of a job. They're on the front lines, Rachel. They are. Who knows the stuff we never even hear?

It never makes it to air. That would be a good show, though. Just let anyone and everyone. That's our premium version. You can access the unfiltered calls coming into the show. You pay a subscription. You can get that. Yes.

We do appreciate all of the callers. I know it can be hard to get on air, but we appreciate all of you trying your best. And Patrick made it, Rachel, all the way from New York. He made it onto the show. Patrick, what's going on? Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. I'm a huge admirer of you all. I want to echo the great call streamers as well.

Wow. There's a theme hour now. That's so kind. They're very thankful. They're bowing. Well, thanks so much. So we have about, my wife and I, $68,000 in credit card debt. I have $30,000 in a Roth IRA that's actually in cash. The stock was sold. There was really no profit made. So I believe

I could take that out without penalty. So I'm wondering if I should treat that $30,000 like cash, or if I should reinvest it into mutual funds to help pay down that credit card debt. Are you sure this is in a Roth IRA? Yeah, I'm positive. Is it in like a settlement account? No, it was invested in a stock, like one particular company. It made maybe $2,000 over the course of 10 years, so not terribly great, I guess. So who cashed it out? I did. We sold it. But how old are you guys?

Oh, I'm 38. Okay. So there must have been penalties then. No, no, no. Because the Roth IRA, I don't think they're... Oh, on your contributions. Yes, exactly. Got it. You can take out the contributions without the penalty, but it will count as income. Okay. So it would count as income then. I believe so.

So I would check on what happened with that transaction. But if it is sitting in cash, the damage is already done, then yes, this would just be considered liquid cash that you can use to pay off debt. Okay, okay. That's kind of where I was leading towards, but I'm not 100% sure what the best option is. Patrick, what caused you guys to get $68,000 in the credit card debt?

Being workaholics and, you know, door dashing your way into debt and obesity. How's that? Oh, wow. Yeah. So was this, I'm trying to understand for the listeners out there who may be experiencing something similar. Are you saying you guys were working so hard and you were so stressed that you just sort of ate your feelings month after month? Yeah. I mean, I would say more out of convenience. It's a mixture of convenience of not working a lot. What period of time was this? Over how long? Probably in the course of two years. That's a lot of... $34,000 a year?

Yeah, it also includes some medical... Okay. I was like, $2,800 a month on DoorDash? I don't think I could do that if I wanted to. Yeah, well, it can happen pretty quickly if you, you know. And the illusion is if you make a lot of money, right? How much do you guys make a year?

Combined, we're about $250,000 a year. Wow. So you could clear this credit card debt without even touching the Roth IRA. But this will just help you speed it up? I think it would help speed it up, yeah. Do you have any other debt? We could do that it up, yeah. Do you have any other debt? We could do that. I'm sorry? Do you have any other debt?

No. Okay. Well, I think this... And the reason why the medical... We have to use a credit card because it requires a reimbursement of this particular plan. It's a bit of a previous health plan. Well, have you cut up the cards yet? Yeah, we don't use them anymore. We just use a debit card now.

But you still have access to it. What's connected to the DoorDash account? That's the question. Oh, the debit card. Okay. I might delete the DoorDash account altogether for now until we get the situation under control. How is your health? I mean, it's better now that I've, you know, gotten a physical, going to the doctor, exercising, all those sorts of things. Good. It is interesting, Patrick. We hear a correlation a lot with money and health just in general, that when you get to a point on one of those subjects that you're just like, oh, my gosh, I can't keep doing this anymore.

And, you know, with your money, we can't keep doing this. We have $68,000 in credit card debt, you know, and you kind of have this awakening to change what you've been doing with money and doing something different that you guys are, you know, you're doing your debit card and, you know, working your way out of debt, which is awesome. And how much that correlates to other parts of your life. A lot of people say, you know, that they want to make changes in their health. They want to make changes in their marriage. Like you, it's amazing when you get one part of your life under control, it really is a domino effect in the others. And that's what you're experiencing, which is so exciting because I think that it's a, it's a new year and you guys are creating some

great habits. So I'm proud of you guys. Out of a dark curiosity, what's the APR on this, on these cards? I think it varies depending on the credit card, but it's probably like a yearly interest of about 20%. So you're going to look at fees like up to $2,000 a month, right? Yeah. That's the scary part. Yeah, so part of me is wondering if I just have that chunk of cash, you know, can I throw it at the debt? How many cards is it across? It's three cards.

Okay. Yeah, I'd use that $30K and attack the smallest one first, and then if it covers the next one, go that way, and, you know, flip the payments along the way. That sounds great. I mean, we've been working on it already a bit, so, like, the number was even a little bit higher, but because of, you because of getting the budget under control, doing all those things, getting rid of the credit cards, using the

bank credit and cash, it kind of got us. And it can happen quickly, right? Oh, yeah. It is a slippery slope, for sure. Yep. Using your own money will always change the game. You can't go into debt if you run out of money in the bank account. And that's why I stick to debit.

Lesson learned. Amen. Brother George. Man, this hour took my breath away, Rachel, but it was fun. You did a great job. You handled it. So did you. So did the phone screeners.

And shout out to the phone screeners this hour. It's their show. Taylor Christian just killing it. It's their world. We're just living in it. This has been The Ramsey Show. you