The Ramsey Show - App - How Can I Talk to My Spouse About Money? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 19, 2022

Dr. John Delony & Rachel Cruze discuss: Talking to your spouse about finances, Knowing when it's time to move (out of California),   Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions in Nashville, Tennessee, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your money, your relationships, your life, your friends, everything. Give us a shout. 888-825-5225. I'm John Deloney, joined here by best-selling author and all-around great human being, Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls on life, money, work, everything.

888-825-5225. Let's go out to William in Fort Worth, Tejas. What's up, William? Hey, guys. How are y'all? We're good Tejas. What's up, William? Hey, guys. How are y'all? We're good, brother. What's up? So, my, I just, last Friday, so a week ago, actually quit my job because my wife requested me to.

And we were having this discussion now of, well, what do we do with our finances? It seems like you should have had that conversation before she told you to quit. Why did she tell you to quit your job? I have a real bad heart and I was working in the heat and it was getting to the point where I was passing out at work. Okay, so she was right. So her impulse was, let's A, go with don't die. B, let's figure out money, right?

Yes. Okay. It's fair. Rachel has a wife. She's like, I'm going to go with that one. Okay, so hold on. Why did your wife have to save your life? Why didn't you come to this determination on your own?

Because I'm one that won't stop unless I'm told no. have to save your life? Why didn't you come to this determination on your own? Because I'm one that won't stop unless I'm told no. I'll go until I burn out. Or in this case, die. That's immature.

Can we decide we're going to be different from this point forward? Yes. So we got a wake- up call. So what's your question? How do I talk to my wife about our finances? Because we have two accounts. She has her account. I have my account. None of them are tied together. And so I, I mean, I don't see what she's spending I don't she doesn't see what I spend and I've talked to her about it previously and she's like well I don't want you to be mad at me for what I what I spend but we're in this together for sure for sure um which is kind of a common thing that I hear when couples don't have their money together it's like well I don't want you to want you to see, cause I don't want, I don't want to get ragged on of like,

I go to target and probably spend too much money and I don't want you to see that. And you know, like that, that is a normal discussion point that we hear from people when their accounts are separate and you're talking about combining them. So, uh, not saying that's right, but that, that is a common phrase that we hear. So would she be correct? Would you get mad at how she spends her money, you think? No. I wonder why she thinks that you will. She's a schoolteacher, and she told me right before I,

the Thursday before I put my resignation in, that, well, this next check is the one I play with. I said, well, what do you do with it? She said, well, I don't pay any bills with it. I said, okay, so you have enough. I mean, you pay all your bills with one check and you play with it. Yeah, and there's so much here, William. Can I tell you what I think, William? I think she acts more like your mom than your wife.

Yeah. I think that she has had to create a world where she makes sure that she can eat and there's a roof and there's bills that are paid because you're a guy that's just going to put his head down and do whatever he's going to do even if it's going to kill him is that fair yeah and then finally she said hey how about you don't die like you're getting pretty close to the edge here and this conversation sounds like it starts with you coming home and saying i've been real immature and i've been thinking about me to the point that i'm just gonna work myself to death because that's kind of what I think I'm

worth. And she looked at you finally, as you were heading off the edge and said, Hey, I think you're worth a little bit more than that because you're my husband. And so I want to enter into a world where we're going to do this together. And I've quit my job. I've said, I tapped out, right? There's no bravado in the juiu-jitsu world there's an old thing like you don't tap out you just no true jiu-jitsu artists tap out when they get caught right that's it's so you can live to go another day and that's what you've done here and you can stand before your wife actually take a knee before your wife and say i've been immature the way i've lived and we're gonna have to start this whole thing over, build something new. I want to start by being all in together on this deal. And I'm not going to

judge your purchases. I'm going to choose to go first too. Will you do this with me? Yeah. And William, I mean, honestly, from what even John, what you just said, which I think was so spot on of her having to create this world, you know, within herself and her money with you and your decisions all that right like y'all have just been playing in all these separate um these separate fields and so my prayer would be that she longs to do this with you that she longs for unity not just in your money but in your marriage and into other decisions in life not just about money and so honestly if i were your wife if my if i was in that situation and my husband came home

and apologized and said I'm so sorry that this is how we've been doing our life and I take and I take responsibility for not engaging you when it comes to money making you feel like you have to keep stuff from me and and and I don't want that anymore. I want our marriage to be, I want us to, to be fully known, to be open and to know what is going on because we're, we're a team in this, like, and in this life, do y'all have kids? No. Okay. And so if that, you know, becomes part of the formula later in life for you guys, it's like, you want, you want your marriage to be so unified and that you know each other so well that it just brings this level of joy, William, that I think you guys

have been missing. And again, the money stuff is a symptom of a lot more going on. But I think if you went to her and said, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry for how I've acted. I'm so sorry for X, Y, and Z. And I want want to sit me and you together and agree and agree on our money and work together as a team I want to do this together and and you guys and tactically sitting there and listing out a budget like hey if you're wanting to spend money let's look at where we're at let's and I want to spend money so how do we do this we each have our personal line items in the budget. Have money goals. If you guys have debt to say, hey, let's work to start paying this off together. I want

you guys to start working in unison. But I think, William, a huge step, a huge step would be for you to go in and apologize. Hey, William, why do you think you're worth nothing? I don't know I have a college degree but I can't use it I mean it's in business administration I don't even know what your degree is I disagree with this statement you could you've decided not to

and that's fine it's all well and good but there's something beneath this that you think, nah, I'm just worth putting my head down and just going until this thing runs out of gas. And it took a woman who loves you to say, no, no, no, no, no, I need you. Here's the deal, William. I'd really love you to be able to look in the mirror and say,

I'm worth being here and I'm worth having a life full of joy and I'm worth having a marriage full of joy. And hold on the line. Austin will pick up. And I want to give you guys a year subscription of Ramsey plus for you guys to do every dollar together and to go through the videos of financial peace university together. And you guys start over, start starting today. Yep. And that starts with you looking in the mirror saying I'm worth starting over. All right. We're with you, man. Thanks for the call. This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Caleb in Los Angeles, California. What is up, Caleb?

Hey, guys. How you doing? Good, my brother. What's up? So I'll get right to it. The question is, do I just need to somehow make a copious amount of money to stay living here, or do I need to take my wife and five kids and move away that was an excellent use of the word copious just to start the call uh give us some more context man sure yeah yeah so um you know nose to the grindstone through baby step two like i'm sure most of your listeners and we look up one day we're're debt free. Then we get pregnant with twins, which is still exciting.

And then, so now we have five small children under six, and I can finally move on to baby step 3B. And that's when I, you know, can really look around. I'm like, oh my gosh, these starter homes are $850,000. And you've got five kids. You got a house full of, you got seven people. Yes. Yes, there are seven. Yeah. So there's seven of, you got seven people. Yes. Yes. There are seven. Um, yeah.

So there's seven of us and we homeschool. Um, I'm in the, I'm in the film industry, but I don't have to be here. I'm a producer director, so I can travel around and I own a podcast business, but, um, my income is probably like this year, I'll probably close out right around $140,000 before taxes, but it's not always like that. You know, it's up and down entrepreneur.

So yeah, guys, I mean, I don't know what to do. Like, do I just hightail it out of here? Or, you know, I don't, I don't, I have no idea what to do. I just, I've literally never been in this, just no clue what to do. And the main, the main motivation to move is just is financial would that be number one for sure really the only big reason or is there any other motivating factors that you're like man we kind of do what we're we're kind of feeling like we want we want to change yeah so like when i left when i left texas money was definitely a factor right can i can i get get a promotion can i get

a different job can i I make more money? But the broader conversation with me and my wife and ultimately for our kids was we want a different life. I want my kids to run around in the creeks and in the trees. And we want to have a different life than was available to us where we were. And that was the ultimate, are we going to leave here? The money definitely played into that, but it was a life question. So yeah, I would ask you, do you love your life there in California? And do you love the life of Los Angeles? And you got 15 kids that you're raising down there. Do you like that? Or are y'all looking for, because this sounds like it's an existential question, right? This is a different,

you've reached the question that so many filmmaker buddies of mine reach or artists of mine say like, all right, am I going to go all in on this? I got five kids. Can I earn a living? All those questions, right? So what's the main motivation behind this question? Yeah, I think it's that. I mean, you guys have had hundreds of callers complaining about California, so I'll spare you the political rant.

But just insert that right here. And then in addition, we actually live about an hour north in Ventura. It's like a beach town, 70 degrees every single day. So, I mean, yeah, it's paradise, but all of our friends are dual income, you know, working constantly, you know. So I'm looking at my kids and their kids. I'm looking at what's the legacy, like, are they going to be able to afford a home? Um, I definitely can. I mean, look, I can do anything, right? So of course I could make more

money and I could make, you know, I could do the plan, but on the forecast right now, it's just not there. But to answer your question, Dr. John, yeah, I would love to. We could do that legacy elsewhere. It seems easier, and I just cannot get a home with the current plan now. So, yeah, we're up to moving. We'd have to say goodbye to the perfect weather. Yeah, and, hey, make no mistake. I was doing some media in Hollywood a few months ago,

and I just started laughing. I walked out of my hotel that morning, and I was like, oh, this is why everybody moves here. It was magic, right? The weather was perfect. People were so kind. I get that, and that was a snapshot. Those were two days I was there,

and I didn't have to deal with the traffic or the politics or the drama. A cool thing about living in Texas or Tennessee and a couple other states is there's no such thing as state income tax right so there's a whole bunch of other factors there um but yeah there's a reason why rachel and i are have a bunch of new neighbors from los angeles and new york yeah come move in my neighborhood caleb and i live in the woods and my neighbors are from California. So yeah, it's, but there's a, and there's a math, not that math has to be the, the, the director of your life, right? It's not the number one factor of your life, but looking at the math, it's like, you, you know, the cost of living where things are higher and it's going to be higher where you are.

And so there's a point where it's like, okay, I'm looking at my income. I'm looking at our expenses and I'm looking at what we want or what we value as a family, what we want for our family long term. And it just ends up easier if your standard, your cost of living goes down because of when you move. And so that creates margin, it creates options. And so it's a very real thing to be able to say, wow, we could move somewhere, get a house that actually will fit all of our 18 kids and our family and enjoy. I actually can make decent money still. And I'm going to have more that we're going to have as a family to use, whether that's for investing or saving or giving or spending. So yeah, I mean, there's a true math equation there that you just end up better when you're not living in these

high cost of living areas it just is what it is and so for you guys if you just got to a point where you're just sick of it and you're like it's just we're done here's how we did this psychologically in my house Caleb because my wife and I had lived in Texas every day of our life

and so leaving this was a cultural move for us. It was an environmental move for us. It was, it had a bunch of different factors. We sat down and said, let's make a three-year commitment. And we know that the first six months we're going to be lonely and it's going to be wild. And I got a new job and I don't even know how the DMV works here. And there's different laws, different rules, everything's different. And so we're going to, we're going to commit through commit through that this idea that if we leave we can never go back to california it's a great point it's not true you can you can move everybody back and y'all have a y'all figure it out because you're smart and scrappy and good and you know what you're doing and so i i would

say hey let's make a 36 month commitment let's pick a place whether it's north carolina or texas or any who know anywhere kansas go to Kansas, man. Kansas is beautiful. Go somewhere where you're going to have the life that you want. And that is going to allow you so much more financial flexibility than what you're dealing with right now. And still continue to be able to create and do film and produce and direct and do all those things that you love to do. Yeah. It sounds like in your heart,

you're gone. Now you're just dealing with the angst of, I made a hard decision and now what do we do now yeah absolutely all right it's so good oh you bet say something i was just like it's i mean it's tough caleb because it's like you know especially after you're a parent you're like okay i'm making decisions not just for me and after you're married it's your spouse and then once you have little ones that you're responsible for it's like all right i'm making it's a big deal there's a weight to it so i so appreciate his like hesitation and really and really thinking through it but um but i also think there's a reality to to the math and and the the value of living that you want with your family so and this

always brings to mind an important um i i heard this from a counselor friend of mine in relation to breakups but I think it applies all across the board this idea that just because it hurts just because it's uncomfortable just because you get sad just because you're grieving doesn't mean it's not the right decision right and people would break up and think I'm hurting so bad two days after we've been married or not married we've been dating for two years or we've been married for a long time and we divorced and it hurts so bad I must have made a mistake and it's like like, no, no, no. You made the right call. Hurting is part of this process. So leaving the city where all five of your kids were born, leaving the adventure and all the excitement that

is LA, that's going to be a bummer, right? Believing that weather, that incredible weather. There's a cool thing that happens in Tennessee that doesn't happen in Los Angeles. And it's waterfalls from the sky several times a week. It's so crazy um they call it rain and it's amazing and it fills up in these basins called lakes it's crazy four seasons yeah you get all four yeah it's great give it a shot man give it a shot um and okay sorry I know we're we're we're continuing on this but again but also on the total flip side of this of how we've answered this, we had a debt-free scream last week with a family from California. They paid off their mortgage.

Yeah, they figured it out. And they were like, you know, math does apply in California because that's always our joke here that everyone's like, well, I can't do that because I'm from California. And they did it, and they paid off their house and all of it. So will it take a longer time? You get less house for more? I mean, all of that, yes.

But you still can own a home in California. Absolutely. Or, Caleb, maybe you quit doing indie stuff, and you start shooting features, and you get into that world. Make more money. Make more money and say, this is just the life we're going to live. So go for it. If you made more money, Caleb, would that change the conversation? Oh, yeah.

So if somebody just dropped $300,000 on you. Would you move? Would you move or would you stay? Is that a fair question? I don't know. We'll be right back. Triple-A, 825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. Listen, every time you hear someone do their debt-free scream on the show,

it's because at some point they said, Enough! I'm not living like this anymore. I've had it. And when you get mad like that and do what they did, your life will change too. And right now, inflation and your ridiculous credit cards are killing you. You started to believe you're not in control of your money.

Wrong. You have to decide to control what you can control, and that's you, your thoughts, and your actions. You have the power to change your future. We're one of the few groups of people left in the world that still believe that people can change. And Financial Peace University will show you how. This course will teach you the proven step-by-step plan that's helped nearly 10 million people beat debt,

master budgeting, and build wealth. And you can do it too. Stop letting debt and money stress control your life. Say enough and take back your control. Start Financial Peace University at RamseySolutions.com slash enough. That's RamseySolutions.com slash enough. Let's go out to Phillip in Oklahoma City. What is, let's see where he is.

There's Phillip. What's up, Phillip? Yeah, hey, how are you? I'm outstanding, my brother. How are you? I'm doing great. Excellent. So What's up, Phillip? Yeah. Hey, how are you? I'm outstanding, my brother. How are you? I'm doing great. Excellent. So what's up, man?

How can we help? All right. So I'm definitely not the type of person who likes being in debt at all. It's an icky, nasty feeling for sure. And I was never in debt until I married my beautiful wife, who has some student loans, and we both love to get rid of them. But I've tried a couple of budgets in the past and I can't seem to get it right and stick to it because the cost estimates I can't seem to nail down and unexpected costs, things along those lines. So my question is, what are some tips and advice for budgeting and saving money on a lower

income? Yeah, that's a great question, Philip. Well, we teach because there's different ways to do a budget, right? There's like the what is it like the 6040 rule or the you know, there's all these different types. So the one that we really recommend using is the zero-based budget. And that's where the income for your month, because you're going to budget monthly, not necessarily weekly or even, you know, some people do a yearly budget, but once a month. And you have your income for that month. And then all of your expenses underneath, including giving and saving. And the goal is for that income minus all of those expenses should equal zero. So that's a zero-based budget. And so sitting down and doing that, you know, realizing a couple of things, having a miscellaneous category is huge. And it sounds like

that's one of the issues that you have when something comes up. You're like, oh my gosh, we didn't plan for this. So making sure you have kind of that catch-all category, which helps a ton so it doesn't throw your entire budget off. I would also say to make sure that you know a good estimate of what you spend your money on realistically too. I think some people go into budgeting and they think, okay, I'm going to cut back all this stuff and I'm going to have $75 for food for the month. It's probably not going to work. So really making sure, hey, we know what we need not to be. We're not going to be extravagant with it, but we know what we need in categories like food, transportation,

obviously your rent or your mortgage. That's a pretty standard one that you'll know, predictable month to month. But really testing those out. And the other thing, Philip, is give it 90 days. You have to give yourself three months. A lot of people, the first time they do it, the first month or second month, it doesn't work. So they're done. And you really have to stay with it up to three months because things are going to change throughout the month. Again, you predict something in one category and ends up being something else. You have to end up upping that category, lowering categories all of it so it does take some strategy and being really really intentional but some of those things will help I think again doing the zero-based budget doing it monthly before the month begins giving yourself 90 days and then the

last thing to fill up I would say is to make sure you're tracking your transactions because people will set a budget and then they that's it They just set it and they just keep living their life. And it gets to the 12th of the month and they're like, oh my gosh, I don't know how much we have left for food, you know, or whatever's left. So making sure that you're tracking that. And EveryDollar, our app here at Ramsey Solutions, does that. It connects to your bank. And so that's a great option if you want to do that or if you want to keep up with you know as you're spending money through the month as well but those are set those again high level but really practical ways um to to do the budget and then again it's also sticking to it like having to say this is how much we have for food and it's reasonable

we're not we're not going you know we're not starving ourselves but but we have for food. And it's reasonable. We're not starving ourselves. But we have to stay in this. And that means making different decisions as well. And especially if you have a lower income, having to use that income and stretch it as far as possible is really key. And then if you guys don't have any savings, then $1,000 emergency funds is the very first thing you want to do before you start paying off that debt. And that's where that savings line item will be. And then once you have that,

you can take that out of the budget because you're not going to be saving for anything else because you have your starter emergency fund. And then anything extra goes towards that debt to pay it off as quickly as possible. Philip, why do you have a lower income? What do you do? Well, I work for Coca-Cola and I do merchandising and I stock and order Coca-Cola for stores. And it's about 35K a year. And so it's enough, but it just seems like it's shrinking because of inflation and things like that. No, it doesn't seem like it is. It absolutely is. How old are you?

I'm 22. Okay. That job that you're working is hard work, isn't it? Yeah, it's very physical. It's very physical. It's very physical. It's very physical. It's hard work. With your work ethic and you don't have any fear of doing hard work, I think you could get involved in some trades and make $50,000 in 60 days. You could find another job.

Making some money. Do you believe that you can do that? Um, yeah, I'm, I'm not sure how many other options there are for me, but I do, I do really love the job that I do as well. Here's the deal. You can love it all day long, but you have a math problem, right? Yeah. Yeah. Is your wife work, Phillip? No, she's in full-time school,

and I think this is, yeah, this is her last year, and her scholarships will pay the rest of the way through. But you're 22, and it might be that for two years you do something that isn't your dream job or isn't, you know, fulfilling all of your hearts. You know, I don't know, rainbows come out of the sky when you wake up every morning but you have a math problem you're just going to put food on the table and you're going to work really hard to get this debt paid off so that when she gets out of school y'all are ready to run and do whatever it is y'all want to do it's going to be hard to pay off student loan debt

philip on 35 000 it's just going to take you guys a long time so i don't know if that's getting even a side hustle changing your full-time career for sure is an option like john is saying but then also i think picking up other work again to get to be aggressive to pay the student loan off but i also don't want you guys becoming debt free and still feeling like you're just living like paycheck to paycheck still just because of your salary. What do you want to do long-term, brother? Well, as of right now, I was actually picturing working my way up within the company. And is that right? Um, I have, um, I, I am making about 30% more money than I was when I got hired three years ago.

It's still not enough. I thought if I sing it, you could hear it that way. It's still not enough. You could, you could be making a hundred percent more than you were making two days ago. It's still 35 grand. It's still not enough to get you guys out of the hole. Is there a, is there a track though though, that you're seeing, Phillip, that you know, okay, in 12 months it's going to be more?

Like, is there a progression that's going to happen, though, that you know? Well, I guess I can't say that for 100% sure, but I know that since I'm being paid hourly and I get an annual raise, like, over time, I'll become more and more expensive to the company as well. Exactly. And I was just talking to my friend, Ken Coleman, and businesses are rolling people back as they get more and more expensive. Businesses are cutting employees. Um, take a hard look in the mirror brother and decide you're worth more than your

hourly rate right now. And just throw a line in the water to brother, and decide you're worth more than your hourly rate right now. And just throw a line in the water to see. My guess is you can make $10,000 or $15,000 more in short. We'll be right back. this is the Ramsey show I'm John Deloney, joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls on Life and Money, 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Michael in Denver. What's up, Michael?

How you doing, Dr. John and Rachel? We're good. We're good. What's up, man? How can we help? Calling today to seek some advice. I'm on Baby Step seek some advice. I'm on baby step seven. Nice. Congratulations. Thank you.

So I'm debt free and I own my home. And my girlfriend and I are considering taking the next step in our relationship. I would like to rent out my home, move in with her for a short time to build up some more money, and then she would be selling her home and we would purchase a home together. I am not sure if that would be the right thing to do. A lot of the things say yes, as my home is paid off and would generate a very healthy passive income to pretty much cash flow the new home with the sale of her house and the purchase and the house that we would buy together. So I have several thoughts across the board. Do you want all of them or just you want me to answer your money question? Sure, you can give me all of them. All right.

So let me address it this way. The research is pretty clear that the, the relational satisfaction of people who move in together, who are not married versus those who are, and I know it's going to get me the mean cards and letters on the internet. That's fine. It's just nonpartisan data that says every single factor in the relationship. Um, you can just go down the list. Every single factor

is different, is improved when you're married versus moving in. And so when somebody asks me that, yes, I go to church, there's that, but this is simply, I just am looking at the data and the chances of your relationship being less structurally sound, right? That's number one. Number two, when you buy a home with somebody you're not married with, you're creating a business partnership. And whenever you create a business partnership, part of the partnership is always what happens if this business partnership dissolves.

And if you are dating, untangling that becomes a mess. If you are married and you get divorced, and I'm not saying that's going to happen, I'm just putting it out there. There is a plan to follow to divide this stuff up. So what I'm saying is if you are moving into this house and you're going to buy another house here, you're going to share an asset over here that's supposedly income generating all that all that it's it sounds like instagram math is what i call it it's like if i do this and i move this and i get some bitcoin what i'm telling you is the chances that some that the that the train gets off the tracks are greater and it's infinitely messier right so let me back up and ask you this. What's your long-term play here?

Our long-term play is obviously to create a life together. Okay. By getting married? Yes, getting married. How long ago have you been together? About a year. Okay. All right.

She was previously married before, has two children, was married for eight years. I think one of her biggest concerns is just making sure that we are going about this the right way. And, you know, obviously, like, this is going to be long-term. And I would tell you the common fallacy is, and it makes perfect logical sense, theoretically, it just doesn't play out in real life, is that we're going to practice. You move in with me and my two kids

while I'm healing from divorce. We've been together a year. Let's practice what it would look like if we were actually doing this long-term and make sure we're all good. I get the theory behind that. It makes sense. It also doesn't work in the data.

Okay. Okay? Rachel and I will tell you, marriage works when you both have jumped. And it's like, we have to do this together or we both hit the ground, right? And that's the way marriage works.

Yeah, there's, you know, you can, like you're saying, you can try to say okay yeah let's see because i just like want to know like does does does she hate the way i brush my teeth you know what i mean like whatever like that like you hear all these like little things about people and i'm like none of that like most of the stuff that may bother you that could be like oh this is a

sign we shouldn't stuff that that that's stuff that doesn't matter in marriage it doesn't and so there's a point that like there's a relational thing michael here that is really big really big that again i know the culture and the world and everyone's like oh yeah that's like what you do it's the next step in a relationship is to move in together and so what we found time and time again is like it's for the best of both of you to come together is to say hey we're going to be in a committed relationship and actually get married before we, Hey, we're going to be in a committed relationship and actually get married before we make that step. We're going to go all in on this thing.

The other side of that is I wouldn't, and Rachel hop in here, I would not leverage my paid for house and then go rent over here and then go take out a mortgage and build something new. It's getting so complicated so complicated so michael if i were you if i woke up in your shoes you're on baby step seven you have paid for a house you're dating a wonderful woman and you guys have been together for a year and i would say okay if you think that this is long term then like all right let's actually

plan and let's just pretend this is all pretend but let's say i'm gonna propose in six months we're gonna get married this time next year we have another year and she's gonna you know she's gonna save i'm gonna save a ton and once we get married i'm gonna sell my house she can sell hers we're gonna put the money together and you start off a marriage on a completely emotional clean slate by doing the steps the right way in that sense but But then also, you guys financially could be going, it could be amazing. Like, you guys could pay cash for a house together and start your life off,

and that stability is amazing. The number one stressor for new relationships is money, and you would take that off the table. Right. Right? By choosing to get a mortgage and to be a landlord on day one is choosing to, like,

hey, let's opt in for more stress in an already bonkers you know season of life one of the things i went back to on fpu is is just what rachel said and um i mean yeah i mean i that's the number one thing that i would like to see for our future is financial stability and no money stress and paid for house. And Michael, if you want a rental... And making two good incomes, it would be amazing. Yeah.

And Michael, if you want... I mean, and I come from a real estate family. My husband works in real estate. My dad loves real estate. Real estate is like, it's a big deal. My family loves it. So I love the idea of passive income, of having another property. So even you yourself,

not with her until you're married, but if you're making a great income and you have no debt, you could save up and go buy a condo with cash, rent it out, kind of scratch the itch and kind of figure out, do I want to do this real estate thing? Do I want to invest in real estate? Is this kind of the plan I want to go? All with cash, But you can still choose to go down that road. It's not a this or that kind of thing, too. So there's some numbers to play with and all that. But yeah, John and I, for the best interest of your relationship and your money, I would not move in and I would not try to rent out your house when it's paid off and all of that. Michael, I'm going to say this is pretty direct and I may even be overstepping my bounds. Is that okay?

Sure. Don't be somebody's tryout. Don't leave your paid for home and a pretty extraordinary life you've lived to go see if you cut it. You're worth more than that. And she is too. Okay. Sure. And she is too. Okay? Sure.

And again, it's not a knock on her. If I'm her, I would be terrified to do this again because I've done it before, right? And it painfully hurt for me. It hurt the kids. It made a mess. So I get the hesitation. I 100% get that.

But when we're both ready to jump, let's both be ready to jump. Not, hey, you jump and let me know how deep that water is. Right. And so that's just, hey, if you and me were just grabbing a drink and having some nachos, I would tell you,

this is just me talking to you this way, okay? Sure. And Rachel and I both just have both the fortune and the misfortune of talking to countless people who thought they were going to buck the data. And it was like, yeah, but we're going to be different. And it just ends up in a mess, right? It just ends up in a mess.

So hey, we're rooting for you. Congratulations on, clearly you're brilliant. Yeah, well done, Michael. Clearly you're a person of integrity. Well done. Best of luck to you and your new family. It's going to be awesome. Hey, that's an hour in the books

and we'll be back soon right here on The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to RamseySolutions.com slash show.