The Ramsey Show - App - How Can We Pay Off Our House More Quickly? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

Ken Coleman & George Kamel discuss: Using the emergency fund to pay for schooling, How to pay off your home more quickly, When it's time to sell the Tesla, Letting a family member pay off your debt, Burnout at work. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm CT Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving and storage studios, this is the Ramsey Show. It's where we talk about your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Campbell this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

George here to answer the specifics of money. I'll weigh in, and then I'm here to answer any specifics on your work life. In a toxic environment, afraid to get out of it because you're in the baby steps, can I move through the baby steps and change jobs? Can I get qualified for something else while in the baby steps? We'll take on those type of questions and more. Let's get to it. Denver, Colorado.

Chelsea is there. Chelsea, how can we help? Thank you for having me on the show today. I'm really excited. Good. I'll get to my question. My husband is wanting to change industries, and we were wondering if we should use our emergency fund to pay for schooling for him to change careers.

Okay. Is it an emergency? Kind of. I would say actually yes, to the point that he needs to get away from where he is at on the verge of possibly depression in his work environment. Okay. What is specifically going on at the work environment? it? So he is just kind of getting talked down to, being told that he needs to work hours outside of the normal work hours. Anything he says is getting thrown back onto him, and then he tries to change it. It's not getting fixed, and it just seems that if the boss doesn't want to work with him

anymore. Got it. And how much does he make? Is it salary or hourly position? He is salary. How much is he making? I don't know what it comes out to yearly, but he makes about $40 an hour. Okay. And the training that he wants to get and that you two have agreed that he needs to get, what is that and what does it cost and what is it going to allow him to do to move into? So this is where we wanted to call in and see your guys' opinion on the best decision to do this. He's currently in the HVAC industry and has decided he wants to go into the trucking industry. So he will need to get his CDL license. Schooling is two weeks and it comes out to $5,800 for the full course and for the test that needs to be taken. Okay. Do you guys have any debt?

Only our mortgage. Okay, great. All right. I got all the facts. Are you ready, Chelsea? I'm not sure. Yeah, I know, right? You're kind of like, oh, boy.

What he's going through at work sucks. But it's not an emergency. He needs to keep his big boy pants on. He needs to put up with it. He needs to grit and bear it is an old phrase that I would use here. This is not an emergency. I don't think it's to the point of even, you know, toxic to where, you know, and I don't make light of the fact that he's almost depressed and that it is a depressing situation. I would agree with that. However, he has a path out in the form of a two-week $5,800 training course. And there's such a need in trucking that if he does a really good job, he could get paid really well and move up. And so we have a way out. So there's no reason to

be despondent and depressed. But I would put up with it until we are ready to step into the trucking job and we need that income to come up with the $5,800 because you guys can scrape it together. I don't think this is an emergency, so I wouldn't use the emergency fund for it. I really wouldn't. But in this case, you guys can figure this out he makes really good money you can sacrifice in some other areas

you could sell some things he could work on the weekends or nights right now is a wonderful part time what they call gig economy where you can go you're not in some contract you're not doing another full time job my point is $5,800

you guys could cash flow that and never touch your emergency fund and that's what I'm going to tell you to do. Okay. And then would you still decide doing that if the schooling is the same hours of a work day and his current job, he can't work evenings? Is it better to find something to work evenings to get through schooling? Yes. You said this is two weeks, right? It's two weeks. How could we plan for that? I mean,

does he have two weeks vacation? It wouldn't start until the new year. All right, George, let's walk through this. If it's me, I'm trying to figure out, okay, we don't want an interruption in income unless you guys could, could you, if he were to resign and for two weeks. Now there's no guaranteed job at the end of the two weeks, correct? Correct. So we need to wait until we have the other job lined up, the offer's accepted before we jump ship from this one. Well, and George brings up a good point and I should have been clear. I'm assuming that he's going to go get a job, a trucking job. There's a great need. And say, hey, if you hire me, I'll go get the training.

Like, I would assume that that's a possibility. He should be thinking about that. Not just, I'm going to go get my CDL license and then go look for the job. I don't think you have to do it in that order. Has he talked to anyone in the trucking industry, Chelsea? He just, I think he just talked to one gentleman. A lot of them are looking for like one year's O for decent pay. So even if he goes into this industry, he'll go in as entry level.

So there would be a massive pay cut. I just, my worry is the grass is not greener on the other side. And he's jumping in this because he's depressed and he's going, well, I guess trucking, I can make good money and it's quick. You know, I can do the training quickly. But my worry is he gets into this and trucking's hard. I mean, if you've talked to people who drive trucks, it is not an easy life or a sustainable one long term. And so I just want him to make sure he knows what he's stepping into. If this is a passion of his versus, well, this is easy money. It gets me out of a toxic place. There are places

he can work in HVAC that are not toxic. I know because we meet them at our Entrez leadership events. They run amazing companies and they're great leaders. Does he want to drive a truck? He does. He did it before. Okay. Now, again, I'm not going to try to apply this to everybody, but the trucking industry right now is in a four-alarm dumpster fire trying to find truckers. I think you guys need to do a whole lot more research and a whole lot more talking just to give me an idea, and I don't know if a Walmart trucking job is available to you,

but Walmart is starting truckers in the 90,000 range. Oh, okay. If you've got experience. You need to do a little bit more research. You guys need, let me tell you something. I report on this stuff almost on a weekly basis on the Ken Coleman Show about the need for truckers. They are expediting training.

This whole you've got to have a year's experience of driving, that's not necessarily the case in most places. So let's look at the universe of opportunities near you all, and then we decide what we're going to do. I like getting through the end of the year, scraping together the six grand. January hits, he uses vacation time, does the training by cash flowing it.

That's right. Bada bing, bada boom. There it is, George. It's your sound. It's become your thing. It's my theme now. We call him Jersey George. He just gives it to you straight. I don't know.

Anyway, what are we doing, Ken? I don't know what you're doing, but I will tell you this. Make sure that you have a plan. Here's the lesson from that last call. Make sure you have a plan before we jump. No need to jump. Let's walk. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against

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at chministries.org slash budgets. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. It is a free phone call for you to jump in and talk about your life. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

If you've got any work calls, I want George to jump in on some of these. You've got a toxic work environment. You need a little advice. Maybe we'll change your name, your location, if it's sensitive. I want George to weigh in on some of these. I love that. You've got a toxic work environment. You need a little advice. Maybe we'll change your name, your location, if it's sensitive. I want George to weigh in on some of these. I love that. You know?

It riles me up to hear about this toxic work culture. And I host the Entrez Leadership Podcast. Yes, you do. So we're helping leaders grow in that area because there's a leadership crisis in America today as well. And a lot of this stems from that. It sure does. So jump in, 888-825-5225. First, we'll get to Tulsa, Oklahoma. Annabelle is there. Annabelle, how can we help? Hi. Okay, so about six months ago, my husband and I sold a house, bought a house, and bought a new vehicle. And then probably two months after that, we started listening to the Dave Ramsey Show, and we got super excited about paying down our mortgage

and becoming debt free. So we set up a budget and now that we have our budget, we're realizing there's not a lot left at the end of every month to attack the mortgage with. We would have done things differently if we had like gone in with your philosophy, but we didn't. So in our current situation, I'm just curious if you guys have any things that you would change that we should go back and do differently or going forward, what we can do to pay down our mortgage quickly. I love it. Well, I'm so glad you guys are on board. You're doing a budget. There's a lot of good things happening here. Now, when you said you bought the new vehicle, was that in cash or do you have a loan on it? We did buy it in cash. So we

took out $130,000 from the sale of our home and we put 20% down on our new property and then we bought the vehicle in cash. Great. Okay. So you don't have any debt except for the mortgage? Yes, that's correct. And you've got a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses? We do. Awesome. And so when you look at your budget, where are the biggest ticket items that are eating up this income? So honestly, the new house, we purchased one that is, our mortgage is $2,000 a month and my husband brings home $6,000. So, I mean, we have extra for sure and we can absolutely afford our payments, But that takes a lot. And then we just weren't thinking about, you know, the extra electric and gas and water bills, all of the other things that come with

a bigger home. That takes quite a bit of it. And you guys are investing 15% of your income into retirement. We are. Okay. So 33% of your income is going towards the mortgage, a little higher than I'd like. We recommend 25% on a 15-year. Did you get a 30-year mortgage? We did, yes. Okay. This is a big old mortgage. We're trying to make, right now we're putting $400 extra a month into it. On top of the, so it's a $2,000 mortgage, you're putting $2,400 a month on it?

Yes. Yes. Okay. Correct. I told my husband, we listen to your show and we're both like encouraged and discouraged at the same time because we want, well, I mean, we're both hard workers. We want to like do what it takes. I feel like we've cut down our expenses quite a bit. What's tricky is our season of life is so busy.

My husband is in a busy job already, so he doesn't have time to really take on extra work, but his career will continue to grow and hopefully make more money. I stay at home with our two kids and I do a little bit of tutoring on the side, but like, I just already feel exhausted in what we do have going on. So I don't see it, at least right now, being able to take on a ton of extra work to make more money. But that's a question too, of like, where's the balance there? Because I could take on more tutoring jobs or do extra things if I needed to. Sure. Well, there's only two ways money flows, in and out. And so we can increase the income, Ken can help you in that area. If your husband, you know, could be making more in his current role, what does he do for work? He's a CPA.

Okay. So the question is, how can we get him from going from $72,000 take-home to $100,000 take-home? And now we've got an extra $30K we can throw at the mortgage every year. That would speed it up. Right. And so that's one area. The other area is spending less. And so that's on the outgo. I would go through your budget.

Are you guys using every dollar right now or something different? Oh, we just set it up on our own, so we're not using a $3. Okay. I'm happy to gift that to you guys for a year and see if you like that better, see if you see any changes there. It's great. You can drag your transactions in to track it all and get on a plan there. But the other side is auditing your budget. This means going through every single thing with a fine-tooth comb going, are we doing the best we can? Are we overpaying for insurance? We haven't checked it in five years. We should shop around with Xander and see if we can shave off 20 bucks here. You know, we're using these four subscriptions out of the 15 that we're paying for. Let's shave those

off for a season and see what that does for our budget. And you know, we've been a little lackadaisical in the food area. We could be better about meal planning and not eating out as much. Maybe we cut the appetizers and the drinks. Maybe we do take out. So you got to go into every area of the budget and decide where are we willing to sacrifice and compromise so that we can have more margin to pay off this house early. Okay. So I have one other question that goes off of that. We give 10% to our church in tithe, but when we lived at our previous house, my husband's income was way above what we were spending on our mortgage. So we had quite a bit of extra cash. And we gave, I think, $350 a month above that towards additional, you know, like a charity that goes to the poor and things like that.

So now that we're in our new house, I recommended putting that towards our budget or towards our mortgage. And my husband would like to keep it, that extra gift towards what we were already doing. He's super generous. So I'm on board with him. But I mean, what do you guys think of that? Is that okay to keep giving extra in that way? Or is it better to knock out your debt while it's so big?

I am in the boat that generosity is never a bad thing. And so I would keep that because it keeps your hand more open. And you realize, you know what? This money is not just for us. It's to bless others. And that's the most fun we can have with money. So if you're doing it out of reluctancy, we've got to do a heart check there and go, well, maybe we should be giving us something we're more passionate about if we're just

doing this to check a box. But if something that you guys are passionate about, I'm not going to cut giving an offering from that area. I would much rather cut it from somewhere else. I'd rather cut a subscription before I do it from generosity. So I would sit down with your husband this weekend and go through with a fine-tooth comb, everything, and go, are we getting a good, you know, we need to call the cable because they upped the bill and we never really fought it.

And so let's fight to get that down $10. And if you do that in every area, it's amazing what happens. You'll go, oh, my gosh, we just found $ a thousand dollars on our budget because we started getting really intentional. Yeah. And then I just want to go back to, you know, you and your husband need to have a conversation about kind of a vision casting conversation about what he could do. Where could he grow in the next year, three years, five years, seven years, because the income piece is a huge part of this. And once you get control of the outflow, then the idea of him as an accountant, there's a lot of different directions he can go. It is a wonderful career path in the ability for

him to have several different ways that he could go off of that core skill set and that experience. And so I would challenge him as well to go, okay, what can I do to raise my income substantially over the next three, five, seven years? And I believe he can. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Thank you. Yeah. You guys got this. I mean, you know, we do talk a lot about money and getting control of your money, but I just want to point out, not because I talk about work every day, but I really want people to understand for decades, Dave has said, your income is your greatest wealth-building tool. And the idea of increasing your income, it is way more possible than people think.

But I want to challenge our audience because I think a lot of people hear that and go, okay, yeah, yeah, it makes sense, Dave. Or yeah, Ken, we get it. All right. But I think more people than I think will admit it, they're comfortable where they are. And they're like, I'm gazelle intense. I'm working the baby steps. And the idea of changing jobs or the idea of getting some additional qualification or upskilling to be able to make more money. And then, oh gosh, if I do that, I feel like I got to change and go into a new company or a new position. It's all too uncomfortable because it has to do with change and the unknown. And I just want to point that out. You can't forget that we live in the greatest economy, the greatest country in the world,

and you can climb the ladder. And what if you were using the baby steps and making more money at the same time? And if you've done everything you can to cut down on that budget, a lot of the times it's easier to go out and make $5,000 more than it is to shave off another $5,000 a year off the budget. Right. And so that's another place you've got to dig into.

If you do both what you described, and then I'm saying, how can I increase my income? We talk a lot about compound interest. How about compound impact, George? Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay. You know, I'm serious. I'm getting control of my money and reducing my expenses and living on less than I make, but I'm also increasing what I make for the big picture.

I love that. It can be done. We're not going anywhere. How about you call in and we help you as well. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show America. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We're so excited that you are with us.

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Say, I've had it. And take back control. Start Financial Peace University at RamseySolutions.com slash FPU. That's RamseySolutions.com slash FPU. Austin, Texas is where we go next. Gavin is there. Gavin, how can we help? Thanks for taking my call. So I'm on baby step number two, and I was just curious, my last piece of debt is my Tesla. I have $19,000 left on it, but the part I'm torn on is I don't want to sell it because I have free charging where I'm at. And with the little to no maintenance that the car provides,

it's actually very comparable to the cashflow if I had a $10,000 gas car, for example. So I was wondering what Dave and you guys would recommend. Should I sell the car, pay off my last piece of debt today, or should I keep the Tesla at the 2.49% interest rate and just try to pay it down as fast as possible? All right. So what's your income? So I'm a real estate agent and my income varies quite a bit. The last year to date, I've made $100,000 already. Some months will be 25 to 30 grand and other months could be as little as two to three grand. So it's very variable. Okay. But on average, you're saying

in a year you're going to make six figures. Yes, sir. Okay. And what is the Tesla worth? So the Tesla on Kelly Blue Book today says a private party would pay $40,000. So I have about $21,000 in equity in it. So I could easily sell it and buy a $10,000 or $15,000 gas car. I also have free charging where I currently live and I save about $600 to $700 a month not paying for gas and the car payment's $580 and has three years left. You're spending $700 on gas a month if you had a gas car? Yeah, that's what the app says. Well, I don't know if I trust the app, and this is coming from a Tesla owner, but laying out the numbers, I don't do anything for the gas savings. The numbers here don't shock me. So you make over $100K, the car's worth $40K, that's reasonable, you're making good money in

real estate. Why not just aggressively pay it off? That's what I'm planning on. I was just a little torn because if I sold it today, I could be debt free today and I could probably pay it off in the next three to six months is my goal. Also with the interest rates increasing and business having slowed down considerably, I don't know if I'm going to be making a hundred K the next year. It just kind of depends on how things work out since it's very commission-based. So you're in Baby Step 2. How much money do you have in the bank right now? I don't have that much.

I have a couple grand in the savings, and my plan was to either start increasing that savings to the three to six month or be aggressively paying off the car, but I was a little bit torn since, like I said, I could pay it off today and just be done with it. Yeah, I mean, you love the Tesla, I'm guessing, right? Of course. Yeah. I slept on the decision for about three years before I bought it. I did tons of homework. I understand it from the ground up. I work with a lot of Tesla clients. I've been to the Tesla rodeo when they opened up the factory here. So I'm very ingrained.

You're super fan. And kind of a... Yeah. I think you just pay it off aggressively. The next 20 grand commission check you get, be done with it and don't go, I'll put three grand on it. Cause I really want to build it. No, now's the time to pay off debt. I would take everything except a thousand dollars, throw it at the car. This is time to, uh, to really get aggressive at this thing. And the next few commission checks you get, be done with it and then save your three to six months of expenses. But no, nothing's pointing to you've got to go sell the car. Okay, awesome.

But it's not for the gas savings. I think that's a great perk, but I'm doing it because it's not a huge part of your world, and you can pay it off quickly. If you're going to tell me it's going to take me three years, four years to pay this thing off with my income, and it's a $50,000 Tesla, and I make $40,000, I'd go sell it today. You're broke. But that's not the situation here. Okay. That makes total sense. Thank you. Yeah. And I just, one little challenge on the work

side of things, I understand the real estate market is in some way slowing down. There's no question about that, but I wouldn't accept that. You know, if I was in a situation like that, I wouldn't go, okay, well, the market is what the market is. I would be planning. I would be looking at, okay, what can I do? What kind of pipeline do I need to have in order to keep up the pace that I've kept up in the past? I wouldn't accept that, well, the market is what the market is. You can still sell houses in this market. Oh, absolutely. And so I just heard a tinge of that and I want to challenge that. A little tinge of pessimism.

Yeah. With interest rates going up and the market cooling off off i would call it excusism oh it's not a word but i just made it a word it's like well you know you can't pay it off as fast as i like because the no to your point pay the thing off yeah and if real estate slows down go get a side gig yeah you can always make money yeah there you go by the way that app and the $700 on Come On. I don't buy it. That's a little outrageous. What app was that?

The Tesla app. Well, of course they're saying that. That's what I was telling him. It's all hype. Elon's no idiot. He's juicing the numbers because he doesn't want you to get rid of it. Now, to Gavin's point, I get free charging at work as well, Ken. So there's a sweet perk.

Thanks, Dave. And I park right next to Dave just to make him angry. He drives in in his Raptor. It's a lot of fun. His car could eat mine for breakfast. It would be like a snack to his Raptor. But it's fun. I hope one day he accidentally

just drives over your car. I wouldn't be shocked. He's turning into the spot and he doesn't realize and he cut it too close and he just goes, oh, it's George's Tesla. I tell you this. It would either be accidental or very intentional. Oh, I think it would be accidental at first, but then he'd roll it off as intentional. He'd be like, well, it is what it is.

It is what it is. There you go, George. Here's a plug. Thank you. Here's a check and a plug. Go get yourself another electric toy. Well, and Rachel parks next to me, and so for his own daughter to drive that thing, that really bothers her.

It's too much. I don't want to live my life trying to find the next freaking outlet, all right? I have too much stress in my own house trying to plug stuff in. We have a gas car at the Camel House. My wife drives one, so road trips, we take the SUV. It's no big deal. Yeah. Not a problem.

I don't like it. Let's go to Kelly next in New York City, New York. Kelly, how can we help? Hi. Thank you very much for taking my York. Kelly, how can we help? Hi. Thank you very much for taking my call. You bet. What's up? I'm calling because I invested in a startup company.

And the amount that I've invested, I only had 25% left to be paid off. However, I'm working two full-time jobs to pay this bill. My sister had generously offered to pay off the remaining balance. I don't think I should do that because I could probably have this paid off by January. So why not just pay it off and say, thank you, sister, for your generosity, but I got this one. Because I don't want to create any resentment between us. I don't want to feel like I owe you something. Even if you did it as a gift, I'm going to have this feeling on my heart. This is on me. And I don't want that on my conscience. I love you too

much to do that. So I appreciate it, but I got this in a few months, it'll be gone. That's my line of thinking, but she was all about, um, which is why I'm calling. She's all about Dave Ramsey saying, he just says pay it off. I'm like, I don't have that money. But you will in the next three months. I don't even have an emergency fund. How much is it? I'm going to pay it off in three months. Right now, it's $7,000.

And what's your income? My income with both full-time jobs is 56 yeah i i just i think i would say what george said and if she keeps pressing you on it i would say what is causing you to keep aggressively offering to pay my debt i don't need you to i don't want you to i said thanks. What is it that is driving you to keep doing this? I would kind of put it back on her. Oh, she told me that last night. What is it? She told me that she's very concerned about my health because I'm starting to fall asleep when I shouldn't be.

Okay. Appreciate that. But again, you already told us that you don't need it and you don't think you should do it. So, you know, be a big girl and say, thanks, sis. I'm okay. I'm just tired. And maybe you go to one full-time job and find a different one that pays you as well as both do. That's an option.

Speed everything up a little bit. It doesn't have to crush you. And if it takes a few months longer, that's okay. Do it at your pace, but with intentionality. There's something in your gut that is telling you not to take the money from cysts you need to honor that i would trust your gut on this one thank you so much for the call you got this hang in there get some rest this is the ramsey show Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

George, a headline I shared the other day on The Ken Coleman Show, and I wanted to bring it to The Ramsey Show. CNBC did an article, headline reads, 50% of workers are burned out and productivity paranoia is making it worse. So let me tell you what productivity paranoia is, George. I've never heard of this term. I know. Do I have it? I don't know. I'm paranoid. Well, you're paranoid in general. That's true. But productivity paranoia is the position that companies via managers and leaders are taking with the people that work for them. And the idea is this is specifically related to remote workers and hybrid workers. Remote, full-time remote, or the hybrid workers spending some time in the office and then some time remote. And so you were seeing it with keystroke tracking on your keyboard.

I've heard about that. Monitoring your key fob, you know, on the days you're supposed to be in softwares that we reported one story of a lady who got fired because she cooked something in her kitchen and her computer was spying on her. She was working in her kitchen at home and she was in a phone-related job where she had to make a certain amount of phone calls and she had her computer open and the computer software,

they were able to have access to it and they were watching her- On the camera. Cook something in her own kitchen, okay? Cook a meal for lunch. I didn't know it was legal to run the camera without your knowledge. This is just a real life situation. I reported on this story. This is a big trend on TikTok.

So the lady got fired over it, and they were spying on her in her own home, okay? So this is the productivity paranoia. So, hey, we don't see you. We don't hear you. Are you working the hours that we say you're supposed to work? Okay. And then you've heard the terms, the great resignation, right? Where we've had nearly 60 million people quit in the last 13 months. The number continues to truck along. September job report broke another record of people leaving their jobs. And then of, I know because you're Mr. Millennial and Mr. TikTok, Mr. All the Things on Social, you know about the term quiet quitting.

Oh, yeah. Which is a phrase that was born on TikTok, and it refers to people who are doing just the bare minimum. So whatever is expected of me, I'm going to do that. I'm not going to do anything more because I don't want to burn out, right? And so you got all this going on. And the reality is, is that 90% of workers, this is a Microsoft study. So Microsoft has, you know, office software, and they did a study, 20,000 workers worldwide, George. And this is the interesting dichotomy,

all right, between workers and leaders, okay? 90% of workers report they're productive at work, okay? Yet 85% of bosses say hybrid work has made it hard to be confident that those employees are being productive. Oof. Right? So the old idea, the old phrase, out of sight, out of mind, plays into this. Can I be honest? If I'm a worker taking a survey, why would I market myself as unproductive? Right. Now, obviously, Microsoft did the survey,

not the company they work for. Right. But still, everyone thinks they're more productive than they really are. Yeah. At the end of the day. But this is a true problem because when you're in person, I can see Ken at his desk. I see him in the meetings. And with Zoom, you might have a team meeting over Zoom once a day. But other than that, people are going, well, I got my 48 minutes in. I finished my work for the day, Ken. Why does it matter what I do with the rest of the seven hours? Exactly. And so what's happening is you've got companies that are saying, I don't see you. And so I'm going to track every movement because managers are feeling the pressure to report up to their higher ups that productivity is happening.

Which that hurts culture, that hurts trust, all the way around. So that adds to the burnout, right? Because I believe there are five causes of burnout, George, at work. And I'm curious, you know, how many of our audience members are in these, are feeling these sources of burnout? Because burnout's a thing, but you've got to get to what's the source of burnout. One is a toxic workplace where there's a lot of gossip, backbiting, politics, lying going on, apathy, things of that nature. It's a very toxic environment. Then there's your overworked. You just feel like you're drowning the moment you pull into the parking lot. Then there is you don't feel

recognized. You're overlooked. You're not getting opportunities for promotions. You feel like you're not seen or you're recognized for your work. Then there's just straight up boredom. You just have no challenge. And then the final factor that causes burnout, there's no purpose or meaning in the work. There's no juice. You don't love the work. The results of the work don't fire you up. So if you take all of that, plus you add in the fact that you feel like your boss is your nanny you got big brother monitoring you right like you're in the crib go to sleep george you know i mean you know that kind of thing and i think that's all contributed to it and and one other piece of data from this study this is not just a worker issue this is a manager issue compared with in-person managers hybrid bosses struggle more to trust their employees

by a score of 49 to 36 percent, and then they say they have less visibility of their direct reports work. That's 54 percent versus 38 percent. So in-person bosses more trusting, hybrid or remote bosses not so trusting, and it's just creating a lot of tension between the worker and the leader. You know what would be a fun game to play if you're listening and watching, you put the hand up and you go, finger down if you have a toxic culture. Finger down if you feel like you're overworked. Finger down if you feel overvalued. And if you're down to two fingers, it's time to peace out. Oh, George, did you think of that on the fly, George? Yeah, that is how my brain works.

That's impressive. I was actively listening, but I was also going, that would be a fun game. And that's a good game. So it works if you get down to one finger. One finger is a little different. That's a little bit different attitude. That's a spicy attitude. Different reply. If you're four out of five on that list, Ken, you've got to go today.

Yeah, it was absolutely right. And we're here to help with that. You know, leaders from an Entrez leadership standpoint, we can help you in how you're communicating, how you're leading. And then on the Ken Coleman show, again, I can help you. I mean, again, once you know what's causing the burnout, it's like going to the doctor and going, I got sore knee. The last thing you want the doctor to say is, well, I've taken a look at it

and I can now tell you that you have sore knee. That's not what you want. That's Dr. Coleman for you. Yeah, you want to know what's causing the soreness. Get to the root of it. Let's get to the root. And those five causes of burnout, toxic work environment, you're overworked, you're underappreciated, you're bored, or you have no meaning or purpose in the work, that can make you not want to come into work very often.

And by the way, not only you don't want to come in, it's affecting productivity. So leaders are going, I've got to track you, I that, so leaders are going, I got to track you. I got to track you. I got to track you. That's not leadership. That's nannyship. And, and, and what followers are saying and people that we're going to go, listen, I'll get the, I'll get the work done, but treat me like I'm a human being. Treat me with some dignity. Treat me with some love. Show me how to do it. Train me to do it better. That's great leadership. And Dave and I, we just released an Entree Leadership Podcast this week all about the difference between a boss and a leader. And everything you're talking about, that is- How would you sum it up? That's bossery. Yeah.

Well, I mean, Dave talks about this in the- I'm going to tease it here. That's all I'm saying. Give us a tease. Everyone needs to listen to it. But he talks about all the things you're talking about. Does the team feel value? Do they care? Are you pushing? Are you pulling? How often are you meeting with your team? How connected are you? And that's one of the reasons all, you know, 1100 of us are under one roof every day. We just value that as a team. We think it builds culture. We think it builds trust. We think there's more productivity. And it's not from a big brother standpoint of if Dave doesn't see you, you're not working. But we just know the value of being together in proximity physically. And Simon Sinek,

I just interviewed him, and he said much of the same. It's crazy how much of it aligned. Yeah. Well, you know what's interesting about that? I just read some data. Nearly 60% of Gen Z wants to work in person. They do not want remote work. They are craving the relationship connection in the workplace. It's fascinating. You don't see those numbers, of course, with Gen X, which is my generation, and boomers, but there is a disconnect between, and again, I'm not anti-remote work, okay? If you can get it, if you can do it and be productive, if you've got a good, healthy leader, great. But it does cause all kinds of problems,

and we're beginning to see this in the data. And Dr. John Deloney is always talking about the loneliness epidemic we're facing as we just stare at our screens and lose personal, physical connection with people. And that's one of the benefits I get from just being here versus remote work. You got to be way more intentional about that in your personal life. I mean, I just for a moment want you to consider, George, how much better your life is because you sit three feet away from me every day. I couldn't even calculate it, Ken. I mean, it's immeasurable. It's invaluable. Wow. Because we get to say hi to each other and the high fives, the fist bumps. That's a double blessing. It is. The two of us in one room. Hey, it's always a blessing to spend an hour with you here on The Ramsey Show.

You make it easy. Well, it's always big fun. Hey, I want to thank the team behind the glass. They keep us on the air. And America, we want to thank you for listening. This is your show. This is The Ramsey Show. Do you love a good day, Brandt? Want to see the latest Ramsey Show videos going viral?

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