The Ramsey Show - App - How Can We Plan for Kids When We Have Debt? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 19, 2021

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Thank you. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and author of the brand new book that is on pre-sale right now,

From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing What You Love. He's my co-host today. He does the Ken Coleman Show on 75-plus radio stations, answering your questions about your career, about your job, about finding and living in your passion, because you spend too much time doing something you hate. So all those kinds of questions, along with the normal stuff we take here on the Ramsey Show, the phone number is

888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Brad's in Washington, D.C. Hey, Brad, how are you? I'm doing well. Yourself? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Excellent. Well, I'm proud to say that I'm a baby step-sevener.

Whoa. Good for you. Thank you, sir. And I'm only 40. I feel young, but people probably think I'm old. Just a mere pup. We don't, for the record, Brad. We're older than you.

We think you're very young. That's what I'm talking about. All right. So my question is regarding my emergency fund that I've held for a few years. I update it annually based on how much money we spend. So I make sure I'm keeping six months in our emergency fund. However, I also have savings of, you know, the next two years for 2022 and 2023 of our retirement account contribution to the Roth, our hazard insurance for our home, our real estate property tax, my 529 plan for my child,

HSA, what else? You have that saved up for two years? For the next two years. Why? Because I don't know what else to do. It's a safety net. It's beyond a safety net. Right. You know, it's good. When January 1st comes, like, one of my proudest moments is to be able to make those contributions so I can start the year off well. Okay well okay right one fell swoop so i do the transfers boom all right so emergency fund i was kind of thinking like it's burning a hole in my brain just sitting in the you know internet savings account you have

two years of this other crap sitting in a savings account but this is burning a hole in your brain yeah so that's weird reason being i'm sorry that's okay but can can i use in my thought processes should i use this additional savings for all those various things kind of as my quasi emergencyemergency fund. Do I need an emergency fund in addition to that stuff? Okay. It's good to have some money. It gives you peace, okay, and it gives you a thrill to hit the submit button in January. I get that. None of those accounts, I mean, you have money sitting there for those accounts.

It could be used for any type of emergency if something superseded in your life, right? I mean, something bigger hit. And so you need to pay for a relative's funeral. Suddenly you want to do that, you can do that out of any of those funds. It doesn't matter. You know, your car transmission goes out. You know, all of those things, that's what emergency funds are for the unexpected events um do you see how it's inconsistent to be worried about the emergency fund sitting there doing nothing while you have all this other money

sitting there doing nothing also okay that's what i was laughing that's what i was talking about yeah yeah you're a wee bit conservative, yeah. But it's okay. I have a feeling you're a baby step seven, you're 40, you're probably a millionaire or pretty close. You will be soon, if not. And so none of the loss of income on all of these funds is not a problem. Right. It gives you peace, and that's what it's for. So I do not keep that much.

I do not label cash two years in advance for anything. I have piles of cash that are in retained earnings in the business. I have an emergency fund, and I have stuff that is coming up this year that I've earmarked and set aside, but I don't have two years out on anything. But it does not give me a thrill to dump it all and hit the submit button in January either, and it gives you a thrill. So if you want to do it, you've got the money. That's all fine.

But if I were going to cut back anything, it would not be your emergency fund. It would be that over-saving or early saving for those other things. What are you hearing? I'm hearing a hyper, super achiever who's going, I'm in baby steps. He's a baby steps millionaire, and he's so far ahead. He's got all those accounts set aside so he can do it. This is a guy who loves to achieve,

and he's a really meticulous planner, and I think that's all wonderful. I would tell him to relax a little bit. You don't get to baby step seven by accident. Relax a little bit. And you're not, the six-month emergency fund is not burning a hole in anything. That's what it's there for. Go invest in something else.

Go give some of that money and see life change. Set some of that money aside for random, crazy, outrageous generosity. Just go buy somebody a car. You're very impressive. You don't need to do any more. Very cool. You've done an amazing job. An amazing job.

But yeah, you're an overachieving super nerd, and that's what I am. So I kind of relate to, I understand how you're doing this. It didn't bother my emotions, because I'm kind of right there with you, dude. But I also don't actually physically, tactically do that either so hey good question thank you for joining us jane's in chicago hi jane welcome to the ramsey show hi dave thanks for having me how are you today better than i deserve how can i help good hey i have a question about my parents they are both retired have sold their home to move closer to my husband and our children,

went over budget on the purchase of their home. They drained the retirement account to be able to purchase a home in this market despite our concerns with that. My question is, how do we help them going forward? My dad has a retirement from his state job, a pension, but my mother has nothing, and they have no long-term care insurance. Well, I think there's two things you can do. One is if, to the extent that they will accept your coaching, I would coach them on their budget and on purchasing some long-term care insurance. Seventy-five percent of the ladies outlive their husbands.

So Papa goes into the nursing home Cracks and scrambles what little nest egg there is Going to the nursing home Dies and mama's left with nothing And that's what you're outlining here That's what the future looks like So we need to set the We need to fix that with long term care insurance

If they will accept your coaching You can step in and help them with their budget But they didn't accept your coaching on the house purchase. The second thing you can do is you just go do what you're supposed to do and become wealthy. Because only the strong can help the weak. You don't need a mutual fund that's nicknamed Mom and Dad. You just need a big pile of money. And when you've got wealth, if you want to help a relative, then you're in a position to do that.

This is the Ramsey Show. You've got a lot on your plate, a job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. That's chministries.org. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. He's the host of the new book, From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love.

If you preorder it now at RamseySolutions.com, you will get $100 to $150 worth of extra goodies. And there's all kinds of things happening around this book. You need to get a hold of it and look at the assessment as well, which has been very popular, Ken. Yeah, the Get Clear Career Assessment, Dave, is about a 15-minute digital assessment, and we're going to give you a great report on what you do best, your top talents, the kind of work you love. We call that passion. You'll get your report on what you do best, your top talents, the kind of work you love. We call that passion.

You'll get your report on that. And then mission, the results that you want to put out into the workplace through your work, talent, passion, mission, report. You'll also get a purpose statement with that that is very detailed. And it really becomes your North Star as you look towards any professional growth. And then also professional possibilities for those who are looking to figure out, what is it that I'm supposed to do with my life? So it's a great resource that if you get that and the book, it's an unbelievable bundle for $30.

So that's a really good deal. It's a really good deal. From Paycheck to Purpose and the Get Clear Assessment, all at RamseySolutions.com. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. Free samples, free shipping, and new promos all the time. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best deal. Today's question comes from Sean in Missouri.

I'm currently in Baby Step 2, and I will be completely debt-free next year. I have a career, but I'm not sure if it's my calling. Is it a bad idea while I'm in Baby Step 2 to pay for a one-time coaching session with a career counselor to get some career goals and get some guidance on how to reach those goals? I can budget in the expense and pay for it with cash on hand so I wouldn't incur additional debt. That's not a bad idea.

That is very inexpensive in the grand scheme of things. If you're in control of that budget and you cash flow for one session, that's not going to cost you too much. I would do my homework, though, and make sure that it's a reputable coach. But I'd like to save you the money on the coaching session. And for $30, you can get that Get Clear Career Assessment at RamseySolutions.com. And get your results, and then call the Ken Coleman Show. Give me five minutes, and then we can decide on a career coach.

And I think even then, that is a good decision to get some clarity from somebody else and so that we begin to say, all right, now I can begin to see the mountaintop, and I can figure out how to climb up the mountaintop. So you can definitely cash flow that. Good idea. Oz Guinness years ago did a talk a talk a book called the calling yes and um man i guess that was probably 25 years ago i read that book something like that but um i've noticed in my life that uh the first thing i started doing was earning money to eat yes and uh so get the

wolf away from the door pay the bills that kind of stuff took a job yes the second thing i did was i moved from that into a career yes with meaning and um and and i'm talking about the stuff i do today it started it didn't it didn't start all altruistic i didn't start with a clear understanding that this was the calling on my life. Now I can look back 30 years later and say, of working in the same thing, and say this was a call. It was God's call on my life, and I'm sure of that. And those of you that have benefited by the things we do around here are sure of that.

But when I started, you know, and i get in front of the microphone the first time write the first book um i was still in career mode at that point i was beyond job i was i was trying to do something with meaning and so forth but i was not i would not have been prepared truthfully yes to say that's a calling yeah i had to realize that a little bit later yeah and and you know what i'm glad you actually brought this up i'm not sure when you're 21 and truthfully, to say that's a calling. I had to realize that a little bit later. Yeah, and you know what? I'm glad you actually brought this up. I'm not sure when you're 21 and you're in college, you know what your calling is.

No, but I would say if we redefine calling for just a moment and say calling is to be who you were created to be. Now, once you find out the answer to that, you can make a great career out of that, and that's what we teach. But calling, if we really look at it, we say, what is calling? And that's how we at Ramsey Solutions look at work. When we say work is not a four-letter word, folks, we're trying to challenge you to say you were created to work, created to contribute. And so calling is realizing that there's something that I was created to do because I've got talent.

It turns out there's things I love to do, and it turns out there's results that really fire my heart up. So calling is actually being who you're supposed to be. Career, multiple ways to fulfill calling. And I suppose the phrase evolved from people of faith, or a pastor would say, God called me to preach. And, you know, our good friend Rabbi Lappin, a Jewish Orthodox rabbi, says that the word worship and the word work are very similar words in Hebrew. That in a very real sense, that when you're working, you're work-shipping.

That's exactly what it is. And that's why we have worship service on the weekend and customer service on Monday. And so there's a lot of overlap there. And so calling is saying it's a throwback. Whether you're a person of faith or not, you're accidentally throwing back to people of faith and saying, okay, God's calling me. His calling on my life is this, which is what you're saying is what you're designed to do. That's it. That's it.

So we are all called to contribute, if I'm going to say that. I mean, at the end of the day, that's what God wants for us is to just be us because we all have got something unique to contribute. Phone number here is 888-825-5225. Pamela is with us in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hi, Pamela. How are you? I'm well.

How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right. So my fiance and I are brand new listeners. We are in baby step two. I'm going to try to keep this brief. Basically, I had a marriage and after I purchased a house a few years ago.

We split about three months after the purchase. He has no legal anything to do with the house. And basically, I went into a Chapter 13 bankruptcy to try to save it. I was living in the house at the time. I got a job that is about an hour away in Greensboro. So we moved, me and my fiance moved outside of Greensboro. We are currently renting a trailer and renting out the property, which is a, you know, fairly nice property with an in-ground pool that we pay expenses for. We do have a current tenant there, but with the property

value increasing right now, I'm wondering if we should just sell the house and take a little bit of profit. Yes. Okay. I made that easy. Yeah. Well, here's the thing. The house has nothing to do with your future.

It has everything to do with your past. Exactly. And really, it's a problem. It's not a blessing. Okay. And that's what I've been feeling it's been a lot of stress well you have a pool yes so i know it's a problem i know it's a problem yeah i hate my pool otherwise known as money pits it's a money pit so i'm kidding but you said you brought the pool up

which tells me you got a hassle and it's a you know a couple hours away and you're having to screw these tenants and screw this pool and and it's all got to do with the past and not the future dump that thing it's a problem it's not a blessing all right that makes sense yeah that's kind of what i was leading to i think i just need a validation because everyone i talked to you like no you should keep it well everybody's broken down. Don't listen to everybody. Exactly. Yeah. You knew in your heart what you needed to do.

You just wanted somebody to say it out loud. I think so. Yeah. You're smart enough to make this decision. Yeah. Get after it, kiddo. Get after it. And then you use that money to clean up whatever mess is left over from the Chapter 13. Dismiss the 13 voluntarily.

Step out of it. And then you can start to rebuild your life from there. You guys get your marriage done, and then you start talking about buying something on your own after you're debt-free and have an emergency fund. Hold on, I'm going to send you a wedding gift. It's called the Total Money Makeover. It's helped 8 million people get out of debt.

Appreciate you being a new listener. This is what we do here on your show and my show. We say what people already know they're supposed to do, and we get paid for it. That's exactly right. You know, a double blessing on that is it's not just the financial win, but the emotional win. I love that you pointed that out. That represents a bad season.

Get rid of it. Yeah, there's some stuff you just don't want to keep around. It's like, oh, you know, bad. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Cleaning out my house right now. Getting ready to move. I'm finding some stuff like that.

I'm like, oh, what's that still doing here? Get rid of that. It's a problem. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage michael and angela are with us hey guys how are you good how are you better than i deserve welcome where do you guys live? We live in just north of Dayton, Ohio, about an hour. Okay, great. Welcome to Nashville. And you're here to do a debt-free scream.

How much did you pay off? $123,000. Excellent. And how long did that take you? About four years and five months. All right. And your household income ranged during that time? About $89,000 beginning,

and then we ended at $110,000. Excellent. What do you all do for a living? I'm a police officer, and I work in business administration. Very good. Awesome, guys. What kind of debt was the $123,000? It was a car in our house. All right. Wow. Look at it, weird people. House is paid for. Everything. You're done. We did it. Yeah, I love that, guys. How old are you two?

I'm 39. I'm 36. And you're not even 40 years old. What's the house worth? About $216,000. Boom. Yep. And it's all yours?

Yes. 100% yours? Yes. You ever think you'd have a paid-for house? 30 years from the time we signed the documents. Yeah, absolutely. When I'm 90? Yeah.

Yeah. Maybe when I get there. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. But not before you're 40. No. Wow. Very impressive.

Very cool. So tell us the story. What happened? Well, I'm the free spirit. He loves to save. So it was kind of just one of those things. And, you know, I don't want to talk about money. One day I was at work and I had a co-worker come up to me and say, oh, hey, you know, so-and-so's over there listening to Dave Ramsey.

And I was like, well, who's Dave Ramsey? And she's like, oh, he's some money guy. He thinks I have a podcast. So I instantly turned on the podcast and went home in the evening and I was like, hey, do you know who Dave Ramsey is? And he was like, no, I don't think so. So I listened a few more days

and I was like, I think we can do this. I think we can do this. He's like, it took a guy on a radio for you to figure that out. Oh, I love it. I was saying the same things

you say all the time. Yeah. Just didn't listen. Common sense and then some guy on the radio makes her a genius. Yeah. I said it. I was saying the same things you say all the time. Just didn't listen. Common sense and then some guy on the radio makes her a genius. I said something. There was a little jealousy there at first, I'm sure. I was like, this bald guy on the radio. A little resentment.

I'm with you, brother. It's all about the tone. It's all about the tone, okay? Yeah, Dave could get away with that on the air, but if he tries that, he's on the couch. There you go. That's right. Well, it's there you go. That's right. Well, it's not my wife, too. That's exactly right.

That's helpful, too. If I try that at home, I might be on the couch. Oh, sure. Oh, my gosh. Way to go, you guys. So that gets you started four years and five months ago on the podcast. And you come home, and he said, of course, no kidding, let's do this. And then what did you guys do?

Well, basically, made a budget, stuck to it. Every time I saw too many Amazon boxes showing up, I knew something was going off the rails, so brought it up that way. We have an Amazon box detector on the front porch. We do. We do. Ring doorbell notifies me while I'm at work and you broke the budget. Yeah. So I made the budget, stuck to it, and we just, we set a goal for paying it off at 10

years, the house mortgage, and we did it at nine. So we beat our goal because it just worked out that way. Yeah. Wow. Way to go. You beat it a bunch. Four years and five months, right? Yeah.

Wow, that's pretty impressive very cool now now uh outside the two of you who were your biggest cheerleaders i'd say our parents parents and my sister um outside that everybody thought we were off a rocker so it's fine of course what are you guys doing Okay. So what did you do that besides just telling people this maybe that made people think you were off your rocker? I'm curious. What are some intense gazelle things maybe that you did? I mean, I think we just said no a lot to going out. New cars. You know, we kind of just stuck with, hey, we got a bigger goal here. At least for me, that's how I felt. Yeah, I've always lived that way.

Yeah, he's fine living like that. He's like, again, again. I've already settled. What is the account for the big jump in pay? I mean, that's a nice little jump right there. What happened? Well, actually, right before this, I took a pay cut

to move to a different job, spend more time with the family, and then I got raises to be back up to where I was at before, so it worked out pretty well. Yeah, so he got promoted, and then I had changed jobs a couple times during the process. Okay, wow. And thank you for your service and what you do. Yeah, congratulations, y'all. Well done. How does it feel to have no payments?

Amazing. I'm still kind of in shock. You're waiting for every month of the, you know, the payment to come out or, you know, and now it's like, oh my gosh, it's ours. So there it is. Yeah. Just like that. Yeah. Love it. Way to go. So when people ask how you paid off your house before you're 40, there's people watching right now, listening right now. How do you do that? What is the key to getting out of debt? Contentment was my big thing.

Rachel's book, you know, Live Your Life Not Theirs. That is so true. I feel like social media is such a huge issue. You know, you see everybody doing stuff. New cars. Hashtag blessed. So that was my struggle. He's perfectly fine living at scorched earth. And I'm like, I can't do this.

So getting in your head of realizing there's a bigger why and something changed your family tree. You got to do it for the kids and yourself. I feel like the kids were a good motivation for us to give them a better future. Absolutely. Set them up. Absolutely. Well, well done. Very well played.

Very proud of you. You've got to feel accomplished. Yeah, absolutely. It feels great. You're going to be Baby Steps millionaires in no time. Mathematically. That's the plan. You're right on your way. We've got a copy of the Legacy Journey for you. That's definitely the next chapter in your story. You've changed your legacy.

And a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give to a friend, like that one told you to listen to the podcast that time. Same kind of thing. Spread the love out there and pay it forward. So very, very good stuff. And you brought the kiddos with you. What are their names and ages? We have Brianna, who's eight, and Clarissa, who's six.

All right. Very fun. Very fun. All right. It is Brianna and Clarissa, Angela and Michael. And just north of Dayton, Ohio, $123,000 paid off. House and everything. Four years and five months, making $89,000 to $110,000.

And they're not even $40,000. Shut up. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free scream three two one we're debt-free i love it absolutely fabulous very very well done guys well if you get a house you want to get it paid for this housing market right now is super, super hot,

and your house could be worth a lot more today than it was when you bought it. What that means is if you've not updated your homeowner's insurance, you probably don't have adequate coverage. Old days, the policies automatically updated and followed the value. Nowadays, they don't do that. And so you could have a $200,000 policy on a $400,000 house. It burns, and you are screwed. No, you don't want to do that.

You want to keep up to date. And if your home value has gone up, or even if it's been a little while since you've shopped it, homeowners insurance is kind of a good time to check it right now. You might save some money. You will probably save some money. Talk to one of our endorsed local providers. They are Ramsey Trusted and they will shop a gazillion

different companies and get you the best possible buy on your homeowner's insurance. You'll likely save some serious money. Doesn't cost anything to go shopping. Just go shopping and give it a shot. See what you get. You might save $700 a year. You might save $500 a year. You never know. Text

the word HOME to 33789 and talk with a trusted insurance pro about finding the right coverage for you. Text HOME to 33789. And Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today here on the air. He is the host of the Ken Coleman Show on 75 radio stations across America. And on top of that, they are played on YouTube, on podcasts, and anywhere great radio is heard and great voice. It's everywhere. So it's all about you getting into the career you love. You getting into a plan that makes sense to you and where your passion lines up.

The new book is called From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love. It's on presale now, which means for $20 you can get the book and a whole bunch of other goodies at RamseySolutions.com. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. We'll be right back. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. William is in Riverside, California. Hi, William. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. What's going on? Ken, finishing up the proximity principle and looking forward to your new book, so congrats on that.

Thank you. Yeah, okay, so here's my situation. ceremony principal and looking forward to your new book. So congrats on that. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. So here's my situation. I'm active duty Navy and about to be moving at least three times in 2022. My wife is about to graduate from her master's program in occupational therapy, and she's going to be getting her credentials to practice in the first half of the new year. We are on baby step two on our second to last debt, which should be paid in the next two months. And that would just leave us with $80,000 in student loan debt. We're looking forward to making our shovel bigger with my wife being able to work in the field. So we've been talking a lot about when we will start having kids and we're concerned about

balancing the debt snowball and starting our family. so i'd love to feel like vice and comfort in this situation uh we don't we don't decide about kids and marriages based on debt when it's time to have babies you have babies you'll work it out you'll work it out you got plenty of room they're not that expensive they uh they don't eat that much uh all this crap the kids will i mean if you have 17 kids it'll break you. That's different. But if you're going to have a baby, you're going to be just fine. You're going to be just fine. And the same thing with marriage.

The only thing we tell folks about marriage is you need to be on the same page that you're heading in the right direction together. But I don't tell people not to marry someone with debt, and I don't tell people to not have babies because they've got debt. As a matter of fact, quite the opposite. It's a good reason to have babies. What's the timeline look like? Forget debt for just a moment to start trying to have babies with your wife moving into a new career. Have you talked about that? A little bit. You know, we kind of go back and forth because she does have a little bit of shame and, you know, the fact that most of the student loan that is hers and i've you know i've told you that's not a big deal um but i guess somewhere between when we're moving next year we'd like to at least start we're going to be coming off of birth control soon and um we're

just kind of looking forward to maybe mid 2022 but yes i think it's the shame that's getting us uh no there is no shame. Yeah. No. Babies are God's gift. Babies are the best thing that ever happened to me. Yeah. And she's going to pay that off. She's going to make very good money as an occupational therapist.

You guys are on the path. You know how to pay this off. You're going to get there. Have the babies, and you're going to get through the baby steps in the right time. Now, let's go ahead and say she's probably an occupational therapist for a while. Yeah. Because you've got to clean this mess up. up that's exactly right so it's not like she's going to be a stay-at-home mom uh you don't have the you don't have the budget for that that's but it's not that you can't have kids uh for sure so you do what you want to do it sounds like you already are i missed the part where like i'm gonna say no and they're gonna go back on birth control

that's that's really awkward as crud but uh no i'm definitely not going there so um i can't even believe i said that out loud but anyway that's what he said it's what he said so it's a little warm in the studio all of a sudden for me i don't know about anybody else no they'll get it i mean you know look she's she could be a working mom and crush this thing and that's beautiful bo's with us in miami hey bo how are you i'm good dave i'm like so freaked out that i'm on air right now okay it's okay we've never lost a patient yeah you sound pretty good this is crazy okay uh yeah i'm bo i'm in miami i currently make 35 000 i work for a non that I really, really love. And they just called me and asked me if I'd be willing to continue working for them, but in a different state.

And I'm torn because this is really what I want to do. And I like the work, but it doesn't line up with the amount of money I make doesn't line up with paying off my debt in two years. So I don't know what to, like, I'm torn about whether I should go with the career and, like, really let, like, that be what drives me or whether I should stick to the numbers and then work it out after that. I really want to be debt-free as soon as possible, but I was like, if I'm debt-free before 30, maybe that's good. How old are you? 25.

Okay. And you're going to pay off the debt in not as good. How old are you? 25. Okay. And you're going to pay off the debt in two years if you stay in the current situation making $35,000? No. No. No. What I make right now, $35,000, is not going to get me that in two years. I've already paid off $23,000, and I have $59,000 to go.

Okay. Well, first of all, fantastic. So how much money do you calculate that you would need to make to be able to pay off the debt in two years or even less? What's that number? That's like $70,000. That's almost $70,000. And I already do like full-time work with the nonprofit. Right. And you're making $35,000 with this nonprofit.

So another $35,000. Really like $37,000, sorry, $37,000. Okay, great. Well, here's the deal. I just want to give you an alternate narrative for a second. If you were to go get a $70,000 job, and in this economy you can right now, you probably could. If you're qualified or you could get there, you could make that money. You could also get a side hustle, a good second job and really bust it and you could get there

and make that kind of money. But if you weren't doing this work that you love, you wouldn't be able to do that for very long. You could do it long enough to pay off that debt and then get back into the nonprofit world. That is a viable option. But you have to be okay with that. Or you can stay there and work for this organization that you really, really love doing the work that you know you're supposed to do. And then you just bust it and you work hard and you really just cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. And every waking hour at 25 years of age that you're not doing that work you love, you're doing work you have to do. And I think you can get get there so i think you've got a couple options there how about a third option oh here we go where we find something that pays 70 or 100 000 a year that you love doing that is a viable option as well it's not

just the non-profit why do you have to make less to love what you're doing i don't understand this concept i don't think you should make more doing what you love yeah and part of me thinks like maybe what is it about your work that you love well i love that i get to share the gospel and i love that i get to like really work with people like that are to help communities like respond to the needs and of people around. That's very cool. So do I. Yeah. And I make a lot more than $35,000. Yeah.

And I share the gospel every day. Yeah. I've never been offered like a job while I have a job, and so it's kind of hard for me to think about. I'm not challenging the job. I'm just saying that I think the things that you are doing could be done a lot of different, the things that jazz you could be done a lot of different ways, and it doesn't even necessarily have to be under the heading of nonprofit.

That's correct. Nonprofit's not in the Bible. Nonprofit is an IRS designation. It doesn't make it holy or righteous because it's non-profit. It just means they're broke. So what we're saying is you're not destined to $35,000. You can make more doing work

that is ministry-related, and you can make more. And I think you will. At 25, you're still very young, but the reality is you've got some serious options here. I wouldn't say no to this. The general question, the first question was, should I take this job?

I've been offered an opportunity, but it doesn't make as much as I would like it to make to pay off the debt as fast as I want to pay it off. Right. Well, she's already in the 37-5. She's talking about moving to another state and a similar thing at less money even yet. Well, cost of living. And so, no, I don't think you can make the move to the other state. So here's the thing. What I'm trying to shake up here, and I'm being snarky to do it, which is my normal method,

is the narrative, the idea that, A, you have to make less to do what you love. That's just not true. It should be the other way. And, B, that in order for you to be able to share the gospel and minister in the community that it has to be in a non-profit setting or it has to be in a setting where you don't get paid anything and none of that is true those are not true narratives and so you can be a compassionate kind giving generous person working in a compassionate, kind, giving, generous person working in a compassionate, giving, kind, generous organization that is Christian-based and sharing the gospel. And there's a lot of places that will pay more than $35,000 doing that. Yeah, and I want to point out the last piece of that, though, that if, you know, let's take a teacher.

In the largest millionaire study ever done by Ramsey Solutions, third largest group of net worth millionaires, teachers. Median salary, the median in the United States is $60,000. When you find that work you love, you can still pay off debt, and you can still be a millionaire. But you're going to have to live differently and cut your expenses, and you have to take a second job from time to time to pay off that debt. So, you know, it's not about the size of the salary. It's what's my lifestyle to do the work that I love, depending on the profession. Beautiful thing about the generation of people in their 20s,

I think we call it the Peace Corps generation, because they have a heart to serve the community. Even if they have different belief systems, different faiths, there's a heart to serve. It's beautiful. This is The Ramsey Show. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.