The Ramsey Show - App - How Can We Stay Motivated? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 21, 2023

George Kamel & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss:  "What should we do with. my husband's car?" "When should I apply for my dream college?" Staying motivated in Baby Steps 4, 5 & 6, "What should I do after selling my house?" "I'm paralyzed about starting the Baby Steps" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Here's an EveryDollar deal just for our listeners: get a 14-day free trial PLUS $15 off your first year of premium. Click the link below and start budgeting today! www.everydollar.com/george Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

МУЗЫКАЛЬНАЯ ЗАСТАВКА Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by my dear, dear friend, Mr. Ken Coleman this hour, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. That's the number to call if you want to jump in the conversation. Two deers. Two deers.

That's how dear you are. Not just a dear friend. You went with the dear, dear friend. I thought it was appropriate. I feel so loved right now, George. That was my goal. All right. We got some people to help. If you want to spread the love and you like this show, please consider subscribing,

leave a review, share it with a friend. We've seen the data, Ken. That is how this show grows. It's not through fancy marketing and paid advertising. It's from people like you going, hey, you got to check out this episode. It really helped me get out of debt. It gave me some hope. It gave me some motivation. So we so appreciate all of you who have left those reviews subscribe to our channels and shared it with people yeah my new tagline is be a bro share the show what do you think about that i don't like it i don't like it it's got a whole lot of velveta on it and uh i don't like it i don't like i tell you what i do like is when people call in going, hey, I'm stuck, I'm scared, I'm confused, whether it be in their money life, their work life. So we're taking those calls this hour. George will straighten you out on those baby steps of the money. And if your work

situation, not making enough income, or you're just not happy where you are, but you're worried about a loss of income, work and money issues go hand in hand. So we're here for you this hour. Good word. Inextricably. Thank you. That's a good word. Can't always up my vocab when I'm hanging out. That's what we do. We make each other better, George.

All right, let's get to the phones. Lee kicks us off in Columbus, Ohio. Lee, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me. Sure. Quick question, I'll get to the point. My husband and I are on baby step three. We decided to upgrade his car because we are expecting our first baby in December. And I am just wondering where you draw the line with cost sunk fallacy. We made the decision pretty quick. We didn't mind putting a little bit of money into it, but we sold his car, which was a two-door standard shift, which I don't know how to drive

and wanted something that was a little bit more family friendly. Um, so we upgraded to a four-door and of course we didn't, you know, cross our T's, dot our I's and get it checked out by a mechanic. And we're about 3000 in and now the transmission out by a mechanic. And we're about 3,000 in, and now the transmission's making a sound. So we're like, when do we cut our losses? And, you know, we're on baby step three, but we're on track to have our five to six-month savings by the time the baby comes. So we didn't mind cash flowing a little bit, but we're kind of drawing the line. Have you looked into what the repair is going to cost?

So the noise, we just put in about 2,500 for, it's closing in on 100,000 miles. So these were not unforeseen, like new tires, shocks, brake pads, all that stuff. My husband could do some of the work, but the sound that's coming out now might be like a crack in the transmission. So that could be as something as simple as a patch. He'll get his car with that on Monday and then it could be, you know, real bad, like a new transmission. We just wanted to kind of be prepared for that worst case scenario mentally. What do you think you could sell it for right now, even with the potential transmission issue? Um, probably we got it for about 11. Uh, we could probably sell it for about $11,000. We could probably sell it for about $9,000 or $10,000. Oh, wow.

Especially with all the work put into it. Yeah. And that's assuming a crack. So obviously, if it needs a new transmission and it's going to go, that obviously wouldn't be honest. I'd do the homework to figure out. I would, too. Before we catastrophize and go, we got to go get a brand new car because we got a baby. Let's figure out if this is a thousand dollar fix or a $5,000 fix

and then go, are we going to ROI on this? So if we put 5,000 in, is it going to increase the value to 14 or 15? Maybe not. We'll have to see. And what car could we get for a similar amount? And if you can't get that much car for what you'd be paying into it, it may be worth just keeping, even if you do the repair. Yeah. But I would absolutely look into the transmission, get two. Do you have a trusted mechanic that you know they're going to tell you the truth? You got some history with this? Oh, for sure. Yeah. It's a guy that goes to our church. Okay. So I would research it with him. What's the real problem? What's the real fix? And just to give you an idea, several years ago, I sold a car. My transition was starting to go.

And I listed it that way. I said, look, here's the deal. It's still running. It'll get you from point A to B, but you are going to need to replace the transition. And this is what the quote is on this. And I reduced the price probably by about three grand less than what it was. And I still got cash for it. Yeah. to me it was a win I didn't put any money in it and I still came out of course with some cash so I would look at all those situations and then it just comes down to what's the right amount of uh amount of spend for you whether it's to fix uh or to get something

different I think your common sense is going to win the day. Thank you. Yeah, we're just feeling a bit stupid taxed. We could have just, he had a perfectly fine car. And I have a good car. And, you know, building up our emergency fund, if his car were to go and we do keep it, it's not a true emergency. We can be a one-car family for a second. Oh, great.

Get creative with it. You know what? I appreciate the emotion you're feeling right now, but you need to let yourself off the hook there on the stupid tax. It is what it is. You're in good shape now. This is not a crisis. Absolutely. And if you want to take, if you want to sell it for 10K and go get you something and inspect it with your mechanic before you buy it. That's what I would do. That you feel better about. Yes, absolutely. That's okay too. We will never make this. There's no wrong way to do this. The only wrong way is to go into debt out of fear and paranoia that the car is going to burn up on the interstate

once you have this baby. So that's what most people say. I'm proud of you guys. You're very level-headed about this whole discussion. And can we take calls about cars all the time? And it grinds our gears, pun intended intended sometimes because people go well can there's no safe cars under ten thousand dollars so i need to go get a forty thousand dollar brand new car with a loan so i can be a good parent and protect my family that's a ridiculous statement that there's unreliable cars just because they have even a hundred thousand miles on them listen if if all those people who live in this day and age could go back to the 80s when I was growing up and look at the car that my mom and dad drove me around with no seatbelt

in the front, it was their forearm, it's going to be okay. And you went uphill both ways. I mean, that's impressive. But you know, it's honestly, it's like you could go get a decent minivan and if it gets you from point A to point B, who cares what it looks like? And I know that the car market right now is insane. So if you're looking to get a car, especially a new car or used car, the prices are crazy. Are you seeing though that they're dropping a little bit? We're starting to see the cool off happen. Starting to see a little bit. But there's still so many weird variables involved in the car market right now that

I would just try to get a car that's as affordable as possible to get you from point A to point B. Now is not the time to flex. And unless you're a millionaire, do not go buy a new car. You simply cannot afford the hit on depreciation. It's just too much of your world wrapped up in something going down in value. So if you want to pay cash for a reasonable use car and all of the things with wheels and motors in it in your life add up to less than half of your income, that's how you know you're not out of control.

It's a great parameter to help me go, is this crazy to spend this much? Yeah, it is because I make 40 grand and my car is worth 30. That is insane. By the way,

if you're buying a car on the open market from someone else, not a dealer, and even the dealers, they can be sketchy, but ask to take it to your mechanic.

Yes. And if that makes them nervous, you need to be nervous. If they say, no, you can't take this to mechanic, walk away. Go find a dealership who will allow you to do that because that's going to give you the peace of mind. No, you're not buying a lemon. You're not going to have $17,000 in repairs, which is how people catastrophize this stuff in their minds. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever

to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org

slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman this hour. This is The Ramsey Show. You can call us up at 888-825-5225 if you want to talk about your life, your work, your money. Our question of the day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. If you're moving, you've got a long list of to-dos, but Neighborly has got local pros like Housemaster, Five Star Painting, and Junk King to check those items off the list. Visit neighborly.com today to schedule home service experts near you. Today's question comes from Daniel in Maryland.

I'm starting the application process for college. However, I'm in a dilemma. My dream school is George Washington University in D.C. And the tuition costs $80,000 a year, hello, including room and board, the total would be $320,000. I'm a well-rounded student. He's talking about four years. I'm a well-rounded student who could get into the school, but I have a higher chance to get in if I do early decision. As you probably know, this is binding, and I won't know the amount of merit i will be getting before i get accepted now i just want to stop before we get to the rest of the

question this is stacked against these young people it's a game this is like this is a cia level stuff sad and scary should i apply early or should I do a regular decision to see what money I get but sacrifice the higher chance of getting in? Well, I think this is the wrong question completely, but I'll answer the question. If you were my son and you asked me this, I'd say, look, I would do the regular decision to see what kind of money you can get. It's not that important. I would certainly not do the regular decision to see what kind of money you can get. It's not that important. I would certainly not do the early decision just for the chance of a higher percentage of getting accepted because I know you're excited about George Washington University, and I'm a Virginian,

and so I know it's a fine institution, George. It's got a lot of prestige, but no one, and I mean no one cares especially george washington you know you know that guy's not paying 320 grand yeah he's going to his own school yeah so he thinks it's a scam too exactly so you know your parents don't care they're going to be proud of you no matter where you go to school your eventual customers or clients when did it become about the college when did it not become about hey i got the education to get this job versus I went to this school? job parents believe that and the system supported that that was true at the time that is less and less true in 2023 but that's when it became a status symbol when it was the you know our friend mike rowe he talks about the poster that he saw he's made this poster famous um he's he's in the

he's in high school in the 70s and his guidance counselor's talking about where to go to college and over his head is a is a poster split you know screen if you will where it says uh work smart and it shows the uh white collar college graduate he's got his white collar his tie he's got his diploma he's got his cap and gown and he's got a dentine smile and then on the other side where it says work smart not hard it's got a dude with grease on his face a wrench that could kill a horse and, and a scowl on his face. And it's poo-pooing the trades, going, you don't want to be like this guy. Yeah, but the subliminal message is, if you go to college, you're going to be successful and have great looking teeth.

Oh, they got the photo up on the screen for us. There it is. Look at that. Thank you, guys. If you're watching on YouTube. Look at this. If you're watching this, the message to millions of Americans is- Don't work hard.

Go to college instead and do white collar work because you'll be more successful. Everything about it just says- And so you want to know when college became a status symbol? That's when it became a status symbol. But I got to tell you, those days are over. Yeah. Nobody cares. And I remember being in Daniel's shoes because I got into my dream school, Ken.

It was Emerson College in Boston. I was going to film and media great school and it was 50 grand a year and I got no help I got no financial assistance parents hadn't saved for college and even back then not knowing Dave I went uh 200 grand for a film degree sounds like a terrible idea yeah and so I didn't do it I ended up going to a state school for a little while. And it was the best decision I made to not go 200 grand into debt. And that's what I feel for Daniel, regardless of what career choice he's going to go into. To start off your adult life, 300 grand in the hole is no way to live. And by the way, let's just bury this, okay? Because the cultural argument is, well, the ROI is there. I would say the ROI isn't there,

and people argue with me. Oh, whatever. Well, let's just run it out, okay? You can't look at it as a straight $320,000 versus what you're going to make in the totality of your career. What you have to look at it is that most of these kids aren't paying this debt off, George. You know the data. How many years has it taken most people to pay off student loans? 20 years. 20 years. So it's $320,000 baseline. And then the 20 years of interest payments. That's closer to half a million. So it does not ROI as it relates to the first five to seven years of your career.

And certainly not when it comes to your emotional and mental health. You're stunted in all categories. And the schools are genius for scamming everyone into going, we will accept you. You have the opportunity to be accepted. And you can have the opportunity to pay us $80,000 a year. Yeah, it's literally- What a privilege.

It's atrocious. It's literally going, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to go $320,000 in debt. And if you want more on this, we've got a free documentary that you can go watch called Borrowed Future on YouTube. Watch this if you're a parent, if you're a teen, if you're in college, it will show you the truth about this entire student loan industry and higher education in general. Good stuff there. All right, let's go to McKenna in Springfield, Missouri. McKenna,

welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's going on? So I'll be as brief as possible. My husband and I are on baby step four, five, and six. We have followed Dave Ramsey since before we were even married. And we have had a really, really hard year and a half. We've had three job changes. We've lived in three different homes. We've had medical diagnoses, cars die. We've used our emergency fund more than we ever have. And we just, we're struggling to find the motivation and we're just frustrated. Like how, how do we have no money and how are we not getting anywhere? And I just, I wondered if you had any advice for feeling defeated in these steps.

Well, this is as much emotional and mental as it is financial. And so I'll speak to the finance part real quick. Obviously, baby step four, five, six, they happen simultaneously. You have 15% going to retirement. We're putting a little bit away for college and we're putting whatever's left onto the house.

So clearly you guys have been in a season where you haven't been able to do a whole lot of that because life has just been coming at you. And that's okay. The key here is you've been able to cover all of this and it hasn't become a crisis. It's just been an inconvenience. And it feels like this is going to happen forever.

But the truth is, it's just a crazy season. Yeah. Yeah. Right. You got to hang in there. It's tough. But I can just tell you, you guys have been in a prolonged storm of life where a lot of stuff has hit you. And yet here you are on the phone today. I hear a little one in the background. Everybody's okay. You know, we're still here. We're making it.

We haven't quit. And I think you got to hold on to that because when you look back on this many years from now and you stay the course and you don't accept debt as an opportunity to make some of this storm go away or make it feel better, you're going to look back on this and see the growth that came from this time. And I think you just have to keep your head down and keep going through it. I've told this story before when we did our live stream back in the middle of COVID. I told the story, it's not a story, it's just the reality of the difference between a buffalo and a cow. They're cousins. But when storms come at cows out on the field, they run away from the storm and the storm inevitably catches up with them and they end up running with the storm so they stay in it longer but buffalo for whatever reason they see a storm out on the plains and they

run into the storm full speed and they get through the storm faster and i think right now it's just stay with the principles the baby steps stay with it you know get that emergency fund built back up hang in there don't quit moving forward. And I think the storm will pass. And that's the encouragement I want you to hold on to because you're stronger today than you were a year ago when all this stuff started happening to you. And you guys have lived to tell about it. And you're going to get through this. I promise. Give yourselves grace, McKenna. This is a process, and you've moved out of baby step two and three, which means we've moved from intense to intentional.

And so I found what helps me in these seasons is turning to gratitude and contentment and going, thank God we had that emergency fund. Where would we be today without that? Thank God we had good health insurance to cover that. Thank God we had good car insurance to cover that. All of those things help you look to the future instead of paying for the past. And so we're cheering you on through four and six. It may be longer than you want it to be, but you're still in an incredible place. Hey, if you're financially ready to buy your first home in this market, it is not because

of luck. It's because you've been putting in the work and kicking butt at budgeting and saving, and we're so excited for you. And we don't want your hard work to go to waste. Buying a house is the biggest purchase you will ever make. And the last thing you need to do is fly solo or work with some garbage real estate agent. Even if it's your aunt Susan, and she's a very nice lady, you can't leave this up to an agent who's just good enough. You need great. And a Ramsey Trusted agent is a great agent. They set you up for success before and after closing day by helping you find the right home, keeping you on track with your goals, and making sure you're confident in your decision. Ramsey Trusted pros get our stamp of approval because we know

they work hard to serve you, not to pad their paycheck. So you've worked too hard to buy your first home with anyone but the best. You can find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent by going to ramsaysolutions.com slash agent. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash agent. Corey joins us up next in Norfolk, Virginia. Corey, what's going on? Hey, how you guys doing? Good. How are you? Real quick, I have a debt of $20,000 left on a vehicle. Okay.

With the baby steps, I've been able to knock out all the credit card debt, and I'm down to this zero interest payment on this car, but I still owe $20,000 on it. I have, depending on the day in the market, roughly $8,000 to $7,000 worth of stocks. What I've been doing is they're dividend stocks, and I've been rolling the dividends into the payment. However, I haven't really been happy with the performance of the stocks, and I was just wondering, do I take those stocks, just sell them, and throw them down on the payment, or keep them, hold them,

and kind of save them for the later steps in the baby steps since I already have them? I'm just kind of confused on what would be the best course. We'll take out all the confusion here. I would sell the stocks today and make sure you account for any taxes that you'll have on those gains. And I tell you that with confidence because I was in your exact shoes

when I started this plan. I had worked at the Apple store. I had some stocks and I had about the same amount you did, about 7,000, 8,000 or so. And I cashed it out to knock out my student loan debt and help me become debt-free faster. Okay. So anything that's non-retirement, we would tell you to, even if it was mutual funds

and a brokerage account that was non-retirement, I would tell you to cash it out. And stocks are even scarier because of the volatility with them being in single companies. And so I'd get off this train before it crashes for sure. And that's going to knock out almost half your debt. So how much faster is that going to speed up the process for you? I've been budgeting and our monthly income is's $5,236. We got our expenses down to last month was $3,700. Cool.

Including the minimum payment. And we've been just rolling anything extra into... So you got like $1,500 extra to throw at this debt. Yes, sir. So basically the car is going to be paid off if I don't do anything and continue the way I am. By 9 1⁄2, roughly 16, 18 months. And this will speed that up to like 8 or 10 months probably, right? Yes, sir. I love that.

Man, that makes me feel... Yes, sir. I mean, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel as soon as these stocks are paid off. And I would absolutely do it. Yes, sir. Hey, thanks for taking my call. I'm selling my house, and I expect to net about $145,000 from that. And I plan on putting about $75,000 down on a condo, which will leave me with a $70,000 mortgage. After I pay off my debt and tithe on the income that I receive from the house, the sale of the house, I'm going to have about $30,000 left, and I'm not sure what I should do with that. Why not put it towards the new home? It's not going to be a forever home.

It's going to be a, I'm going to live there until I'm no longer working home, and then I'm going to sell it. That's okay. I mean, why put anything into the home at that point if it's not a forever home? I have to find a place to live in Tampa. The area is hard right now for rent. You're looking at $1,700 for a one-bedroom apartment. I understand. I'm saying that equity is not going to disappear. If you put that $30,000 into the new home, it will give you a smaller mortgage that you'll pay off faster

and a lower monthly payment and so it'll alleviate a whole lot of stress and help you become totally debt-free i mean what if you could own that house free and clear to where when you sold that thing it was all profit wouldn't that be cool yes it actually hey tammy tammy tammy let's well i know because this is interesting. You just laid out for us that with the money you want to put down, you'll owe 70 on the condo. But if you do what George told you to do and you put that 30 on it, now you're only going to owe 40. Am I right? That is correct.

Start looking at those numbers. How clearly could I pay off 40 grand? Look at how much less you're paying per month. It's not a huge amount, but still, you're paying less per month, and you're going to be able to pay off the $40,000 really quickly. Now, all of a sudden, you have no household expenses as it relates to mortgage, just your utilities and all that. And so you're sitting really pretty,

and you got yourself a real solid investment in Tampa, Florida, which is one of the – by the way, all real estate in Florida right now, I just read this week, is hot. Yeah, my house sold in one day. Yeah, so why not put the 30 is what we're saying. Why not go ahead and put the remaining 30 on the condo? I'm going to go look at everything again. Good. I love it.

And as long as you're still investing 15% towards retirement and you're on track there, I want to see you have a paid-for house because then how much could you invest at that point? 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%? Wouldn't that be amazing? And so there's nothing like having a paid-for house. And sometimes the math doesn't reflect that on paper.

And people love to argue with us about, well, I have a 3% interest rate. Why would I pay off my mortgage? I don't know. Freedom, not just freeing up the payment, but emotionally, mentally, spiritually, the options it gives you to give, save, spend differently. There's nothing like it, Tammy. And you're on your way. All righty.

I can't believe that my automatic default was to say yes to the mortgage, more of a mortgage. Well, that's how we're wired. Our brains are wired like that. That's the message you've been given. But this is a whole different ballgame. This speeds up your retirement plan as it relates to being completely free financially. This is a great move for you. I love this. And Ken, this is a big thing that people grapple with when it comes to the Ramsey plan is paying off the house early and just doing the house the right way. We recommend a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payment is no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. That sounds insane in today's world. People go,

they're out of touch with reality, Ken. No, we just want you to not be broke forever and be house poor. And that might mean you need to increase your income. That might mean you need to pause for two years and save up a bigger down payment. Well, there's a question. You have to be patient to take that strategy of a 15 year fixed. Because you got to put more down. The payment's higher on a 15 year. And I'm going, a lower payment just means you're even more broke because you're paying more in interest. Since when is a low payment the goal? Walk into a car dealership and say, I'd love as low of a payment as possible. They're happy to give it to you. And that's how you know you're getting screwed. Yeah. They'll finance a car for 37 years if they were allowed to.

Exactly. So yeah, I agree. But people need to understand that that 15 year, that means a bigger down payment. That means you got to save up more money longer. It takes more time, but what it's going to do is just save you time on the back end because you're paying off that house so much faster. And financial freedom, equity, everything's better. And when you don't have a house payment, you could, I don't know, retire with dignity. And you could work because you want to and not because you have to. That's a very different mentality than we're seeing in

today's world, Ken, where people are going, I'm 67 and I'm still working a job I hate because we still have the mortgage hanging around our necks. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And so it's very freeing to follow these steps, get out of debt, get the emergency fund, invest 15%, save some for college, start paying off the house early. And when you do that, you're at baby step seven, the mountaintop where you get to build wealth and give outrageously. And there's nothing like it. Let me tell you who's almost there with a bright and sunny future. Who?

Tammy from Tampa. Oh, my gosh. That threw me for a curveball, Ken. That was pretty good. I had to bring it back. I love it. Well, we're cheering all of you on that are in that step, attacking that home. There's nothing like it.

You step in that grass and it's all yours, baby, even if there's some patches in it. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 21, 21. Whoever pursues righteousness and love finds life, prosperity, and honor. Ralph Waldo Emerson said, Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood. That guy's got away with words. Let me tell you something.

Ralph Waldo Emerson has got some of the all-time gold quotes. One of the all-time best Ralphs that I can think of. I mean, he's certainly above Ralph Macchio. That's about the only other one I know. So that's where it ends. Love it. Are we leaving out any other famous Ralphs, Guy? Ralph, wasn't there a...

Wreck-It Ralph. Wreck-It Ralph. Another great Ralph out there. That's from the deep, dark base of my brain when the kids were watching cartoons all the time in those movies. You forget all that. It was a different era for you, Ken. Yeah, glad to be past that.

All right, well, let's get to the phones. Krista joins us up next in Asheville, North Carolina. Krista, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for taking my call. Yeah, what's going on? I was calling in because I signed up for FPU almost a year ago in August, but I'm paralyzed by progressing

through the baby step. And the reason I am is because my husband and I own a small business, which is significantly less profitable than it has been in past years. We've been in business since 1993, but it's just not in a good state right now. What kind of business? One of the things I'm trying to identify is opportunities for me to change my career for more steady income, and also because I'm really, I was never really interested in the company, so to speak, but I have been working there to support my husband and why he wanted it. So it's his dream and you were kind of going along with it to help make it reality. That's exactly what I've been saying.

Can he do it without you? I think the answer is yes, but if you leave to go get something that you enjoy, that you make much better money, what kind of situation would that put him in well the business is doing so poorly and my contribution is usually doing the books and um things like that so it sounds like he'd be thrilled if you went and got a really good paying job that you loved well the answer is no because he's like i'd like to think that we can work together and get through this. Well, he doesn't want to face the reality that this business may not be it anymore. Correct. What kind of business is it? It is an IT and telecommunications company.

Can we agree that IT and telecom has changed drastically over 30 years? Well, you and I do, but he still believes that, you know, hardware is worth that. Is this going to cause a massive relational issue if, and I'm saying this hypothetically, you told him this evening, hey, I can't do this anymore. Here's why. I want us to get out of debt. I need more income to help us do that. I've never enjoyed this. This thing is stressful. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Lay it all out for him and say, I I've never enjoyed this. This thing is stressful, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, and lay it all out for him and say, I want your support on this. Is that going to cause a massive problem? Well, I doubt it because I've said it before, but I haven't given the

reasons of getting out of debt, this, that, and the other. Although I've mentioned it and that's what he said, I'd like to think that we can work together and we're just the two of us you got to have a heart-to-heart here we got several issues going on in this question the first is you got to have a heart-to-heart with him and he needs to relationally let you go on this decision and go all right you're my wife first and foremost not my business partner first and foremost and i think that has to happen first. Then the next thing is, is you've got to just say, all right, what is it that I want to do? What is it that I can do based on my existing talent and experience? If there's some skills that I got to pick up, you know, how can I get qualified for those? What's the, you know, the most effective way to do that and, and get after it, you know, but right now for you guys, where you're at to get started on the baby steps,

because I'm bringing it all back to you're paralyzed, you've got some fear of getting serious about the baby steps. And I'm going to challenge you on that in a second, and I'm going to hand it to George. But right now, let's say that you're not quite sure what that white collar or that next big career move is. The reality is, is you can go make pretty good money, probably more money than he's paying you, just doing something that doesn't require any kind of qualifications. It's just maybe customer service related. You're working for a big box store or whatever, you know, or manufacturing, or you're doing anything, making $20 an hour in a customer service role or some type of sales job that, again,

it's train as you go. So I want to paint a picture for you that more income is sitting there waiting for you just to move towards it. Then the big picture, if you want to make $80,000, $100,000, you want to go some career direction or whatever, that's a different ballgame. But there's a fear in you that shouldn't exist because going through the baby steps is going to actually relieve the financial tension, George. Absolutely. So what is the household income right now? I'm guessing the net profits of the business? Well, yeah. I mean, last year it was $38,000, which in years past, it has been $200,000. Yeah. I think here's what I would do if I was in your shoes.

I would say, hey, husband, we have to set a goal. And if this business can't get back up to, you know, $100,000 a year in the next six or so months, then we have to relook at this thing. And maybe you will get an IT job because you have 30 years experience in IT and you can make double or triple that. I can go do bookkeeping. I can make double what I'm making. And all of a sudden, this becomes a very different picture. Yeah. But again, this starts with that conversation.

I've even tried to pivot the company, but his response is only, I'm a hardware guy. Yeah. So you know what? I'm just going to keep it real. I wouldn't wait six months. Okay. I wouldn't wait six months. Okay. I wouldn't wait six hours. The conversation happens tonight.

Okay. Listen, he's your husband, and you trying to talk him out of this, it doesn't sound like it's going to happen at all. What you need is more income. When he starts seeing the influx of income that you're bringing, and he starts going, look at what my wife is leading me into with this whole financial peace process, He'll come along for the ride, but right now, there's no convincing him. Doesn't make any sense to me to stay doing what you're doing.

No, and I agree. And I mean, because of the financial state and me not having a job that I enjoy, you know, it's hard for me to, you know, be happy in myself. Listen, I understand. That's what I teach. Well, it's going to turn into resentment and it probably already has. You've been doing this for 30 years and you didn't even want to do it. Right. So we have to have this conversation. But it did give me flexibility when the kids were little, and I understand that value. And, I mean, my dad was very sick and ended up passing away. I do take care of my mom still. So all of those items create a need for flexibility, so to speak. Well, he's hanging on to the past, and we need to be very concerned about the future because you guys need to retire someday. Do you have any debt right now?

Oh yeah, we have a lot of debt. We recently sold our home because our debt was so high and the income just wasn't in here to scrape, to keep the house. Our mortgage was only like $2,500, but then we had an equity line that made it almost $4,000. How much debt do you have now? And with our income only down, you know, 25% of what we were accustomed to, something had to go. So we did sell the house.

We did pay down some of our debt. We have the rest of the equity from the house in a bank. So Krista, what's left on the debt? Let's see. We've got about $30,000 in credit cards. Oh my gosh. Another $30,000 in medical bills. Actually, about $35,000 in medical bills. And we've got one car that we owe about $35,000 on. It's worth about $50,000.

That thing needs to get sold today. I'd sell that tomorrow. And you need to sit down with him. You're the bookkeeper. You're the numbers gal. Sit down with him. Show them the numbers. Show them the interest rate, the amortization schedules, and frighten him to death. And tell him, I am so scared.

I can't breathe and I can't sleep because I know we're never going to be able to retire. We're headed towards bankruptcy at this point. Something's got to change. And it's not about you and your dreams and your business. This is about us surviving and being able to retire one day. And that's going to be a real tough situation, Krista. I'm sorry you guys are going through this, but there's no good way, no pretty ending to this. Go get you a $20 an hour job. I don't even care what it is. That's a massive raise over what the two of you did last year. So let's go get busy. Got to work. That puts this

hour of the Ramsey show in the books. My thanks to Ken Coleman, all the folks in the booth, keeping the show afloat and you America. We'll be back with you before you know it. Hey, it's George Camel. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's RamseySolutions.com and click Get Started.