The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Convince My Boyfriend That Debt Is Bad? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 8, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. As we talk about your relationships, your life, your money, anything in your life, we're here to walk with you through the whole puppy, the whole burrito. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Melissa is with us to kick off this hour in San Francisco. Hi, Melissa. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I was wondering how you recommend budgeting for people whose salary or take-home pay is pretty dependent on bonuses.

Okay. How long have you been doing that? I'm in my third year right now. Okay. You're single? Yes. And what do you make total? So my base right now is $95,000, and my bonus just really depends on performance.

What did you make last year? $90,000. You made $90,000? I thought that was your base. Yeah, that's my base, and then my bonus was $60,000. Okay, so you made $150,000 last year. Yeah. What did you make the year before?

Total. $130,000. um 130 okay good so it's heading up then that's good yeah that means you're performing well on this bonus program good for you okay well here's what um what i i've lived on straight commission or an irregular income being self-employed my entire life so i've never been able to do a budget with a fixed salaried income i've never been i mean i teach people how to do it but i've never done one uh so what we have learned to do is a prioritized spending plan above what the known money is now how often do you get these bonuses they're yearly once Once a year? Yeah. Okay.

And so you're pretty much living on 90, and then this money comes in, and you hit the lottery. Basically, yeah. So they just cut you a $60,000 check one week? Yeah. Man, that's a heck of a week. It's a woo-hoo week. Yeah, I like it.

My favorite week of the year! Yeah, okay. And you can run your household on 90, can't you? Yeah, I mean, rent is super expensive around here. But you're running your household on 90, aren't you? I am, yeah. But what I've noticed is a lot of my coworkers, they basically go by the rule of spending all of your base salary,

and then with the bonus, they save that. Yeah, well, I don't agree with that part, but I think the budget is fairly easy. We can lay your budget out on your salary, and that's your monthly budget. And basically, you go on EveryDollar or join Ramsey Plus for a free trial and get the EveryDollar premium, and that's the world's best budgeting app. It's a very, very robust, killer budgeting app to help you spend every dollar of your $90,000 monthly on paper before the month begins in the app. You're going to give every dollar an assignment, every dollar a name. Now, then what are we going to do with the bonus?

Well, we're not going to save that and blow everything else. In your budget, you that and blow everything else. In your budget, you save and operate your household. Then when you get extra money, in your case, once a year you get this big budget, big bonus. Before the bonus comes, I want you to spend it on paper also. Because a month before you get it, you know what it's going to be, don't you? Mm-hmm. So you know 30 days from now I'm going to 60 grand right yeah okay so i want you to get you can just get a yellow pad out if you want and say i'm going to

spend sixty thousand dollars here on paper now by spending it i mean we have to allocate for taxes if they're not taking taxes out we have to we're going to put some in savings uh we're going to be generous with some of it be giving uh we're're going to spend some of it on fun. Any debt you got. We're going to pay some debt down. We're going to hit some of the baby steps that we've been wanting to hit and some of these other things. But every dollar always needs an assignment on any money before it gets there.

Now, if you don't know what the budget is, or let's say you're thinking about this in September before you know what the number is going to be in December, then you would start to just make a list and say, okay, if I don't get as much as I did last year, what's the most important thing I'm going to do? And you prioritize the things on this yellow pad from most important to least important,

and you go as far down that list as the money allows you to go. You prioritize the things on this yellow pad from most important to least important, and you go as far down that list as the money allows you to go. When you run out of money on that list, it should be that you've done the most important things to you before you did the least important things to you because you had a progressively important list, a list that is listed from most important to least important with a dollar amount beside it how far down that list can i go and it can be i want to take a trip to europe and i put a dollar amount beside it i want to buy a car i put a dollar amount beside i want to pay off this student loan i put a dollar amount beside it i want to finish up baby step three and have an emergency fund of three to six months expenses and now put a dollar amount beside it wherever you are whatever your goals are now which one of those is the most

important is number one and any money's left over can go to number two and any money's left over can go to number three and it's a prioritized spending plan now for those of you that get have an irregular income monthly like for instance i grew up in the real estate business and you really do not necessarily know what you're going to make next month. I mean, you may have some closings in the hopper. You may have some contracts that are coming at you, but you don't know exactly what you're going to make next month. So you really are going to live that list out in the coming 30 days. So rent, electricity, food.

It starts if you're going from if you have zero that you can count on. If you're 100% commission, like that situation, yeah, you'd start with food. And then you'd do utilities. And then you'd do food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. You know, take care of those first, and then we're going to do baby steps. And then we're going to reduce debt. And then we're going to do this. And then we're going to do that.

And, you know, we're not paying property taxes before we buy food. You know, we're going to decide if I can only buy one thing, what would I buy? And if I can only buy one more thing, what would I buy? And then you list it out like that. And it makes you really prioritize your life. The psychology of getting a $60,000 check on a Friday, man, you could blow that. And I like the idea of being intentional before you're holding that money. Yeah, you got to do it on paper before the money comes.

Because it's gone. It just evaporates. And those of us that were in the real estate business or other straight commission things, you know, we go from buying Cadillacs to having them towed. I mean, you know, it's back and forth. It's all over this volatility. And you have this tendency in that world, not her, but if you're in that kind of a world, a sales world in particular,

you have this tendency to think you can out-earn your stupidity. And I tried to out-earn my stupidity for years, and I was a lot more stupid than I was talented. So I couldn't do it, and it kept catching me. Well, even if you're not stupid, the world is still spinning around you. There's always something that wants your money. Somebody else might be stupid and cause, yeah. There's always something coming at you. You can just count on it.

It's just part of the dad blame equation. It's how it works. So that's a great question, Melissa. Love it. Great question. Thank you for joining us, and we appreciate you being a listener. Good for you killing it, Melissa. That's fantastic.

Yeah, that's a wonderful income. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, my co-host today. This is The Ramsey Show. You've got a lot on your plate. A job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members

welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. That's chministries.org slash budget. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. It means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping. And with the new promos they run every month, you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping.

And with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY. You know, sometimes I do stuff and I go, you're an idiot. Like when I mismeasure, I screw up the window blinds and they remake them for free even though I'm an idiot. So this is like an idiot-proof guarantee. That's pretty cool. That's why they call it RAMSY. I'm just kidding.

You gave me that one, man. Oh, underhand pitch. Yeah, yeah. All right. All right, so today's question comes from Annalie in Nevada. Annalie writes, I'm trying to get my boyfriend and I out of debt. I only owe $28,000 in student loans. My boyfriend has almost eight times more debt than I do, but he thinks you can't make money without spending it.

How do I make him see that he's hurting himself? Run. Get a new boyfriend. You can go left to California or right to all the other states, but run. You can't. So here's a rule of thumb when dating. Do not date people you have to fix. Yes.

Or when you're in a relationship and your thought is, I have to get us to, that's the problem. Because us has to get us to. Right? His job is to initiate being a grown-up. Thus far, he has not done that. Yeah. And he's not, I mean, it's not rare that people think you've got to spend a whole bunch of money to make money. I know that's common, so I don't want to say he's an idiot.

But he thinks you can't make money without spending it. Right, you've got to spend money to make money. No, he just says you have to spend all the money you make. Oh, okay. He thinks he's in Congress. No, because they spend more than that. Yeah, they spend more than they make yeah um apparently he does too in what you can do annalise you can sit down and show him math and you can tell him hey look i love you and you hurt yourself then the important part of that conversation is is one that you're going

to have to decide, are you in or are you out? And you can't help him. You can't fix him. You can't heal him. He's going to have to be a part of that journey. And you're going to have to decide, do I want to walk with this guy through his journey or not? But you can't get you and your boyfriend out of debt. No, you can only get you out of debt, and you can show him how he gets him out of debt.

So from a relationship perspective, not a financial perspective, if you were my daughter, and I have grown daughters that are married, I would say you'd sit down with this guy and say, number one cause of divorce in North America is money fights and money problems. The fact that we're not in agreement on this subject is going to end our relationship because I don't think I can make a life with a guy who can't be responsible with money. And so in order for us to go forward, I'm going to have to see you become responsible with money. I'd be your cheerleader.

I can give you some input. I can show you some things to do. I cannot do it for you, nor will I do it for you, nor will we be together long-term if you are not engaging in growing up. And that's the conversation from Annalie to her boyfriend. The conversation Annalie has to have with Annalie is, I'm reading the tea leaves here, but this is somebody who struggles with codependency. This is someone who struggles with an identity that her value comes from fixing other people and i want annalee to do her work on

herself and grow her value from the inside out let that shine to the world because it because we need her voice out there and then she's going to attract people who are not projects and are not puzzles and are not engines who are missing spark plugs. There's just an amazing way people attract what they put out in the world. Right. Let me ask you something. I don't disagree with that. You know, you tend to, it's not the victim's fault that someone is a victim, but there's

even been studies shown that a rapist will pick the way someone walks. You just feel it yeah they are predators they're a predator and they sense weakness and they sense the body language in other words and so um you know and that's what you're saying you're she her body language is she has this tendency to try to fix things and so she takes in strays kind of thing. And let's pretend for a second that it's not that. Okay. That this is, and we don't know her, but just for the sake of argument with our audience,

because we've got a lot of audience in their early 20s, late teens, especially on YouTube. And let's pretend that this is a 19-year-old young woman. Okay. And maybe she does feel okay about herself, but she just really likes this guy. And before she knows it, she's kind of in love with him. And then he has this problem. Yeah.

And he's a great guy. Except for. Except for. And he. Except for. And this is not like, you know, normally she would not be taken in strays. Normally she would not be lacking in self-esteem. Normally she would not be there. But she just kind of, you know, this guy, they've built a relationship.

And then all of a sudden she realizes, oh, God, this guy's got issues. That's a little different than I'm attracting things. Oh, yeah, yeah. Because I have a pattern of always, you know, bringing home losers. Yeah, I read this quote this weekend that I was sitting on my front porch reading, Dave, Because I have a pattern of always bringing home losers. Yeah, I read this quote this weekend. I was sitting on my front porch reading, Dave, and I stopped. And it said, sometimes you have to have the courage to break your own heart because it's the right thing to do. And sometimes you've got to do something so hard.

That's the parent that says, you cannot bring drugs back into my home. That is the girlfriend that says, love you and you're gonna drown us both and i'm not gonna i'm not gonna sign up for this because this is gonna be a long horrible life right and so this idea the the courage and bravery it takes to say i love you and i value my ability to breathe but annalee if you're that person I'm talking about, not the one John was talking about a minute ago, that you're generally fairly self-confident, you need to know that your desire for love in this particular situation has flipped your language out of the abundance of the heart. The mouth speaks. Your language says codependence all over it. You know, so let me kind of go back.

My boyfriend has almost eight million times more debt than i do but he thinks you can't make money without spending it how do i make him see he's hurting himself i'm trying to get my boyfriend and i out of debt yeah you me i'm gonna fix him i'm gonna fix him i'm gonna fix him as well as i says over and over and over again and there's a guy over there with a backhoe digging holes and you've got your shovel and you're like how do i how do i fill it up and faster than he can dig it out he can dig it faster than you that's right yeah you're digging out the bottom faster than you're ever going to get there so i want you to put that shovel down and go get some people i'll

probability on this annalee um as the old guy the uh that's a walking dad joke okay um high probability is that if you are a young woman of confidence and a good self-esteem that this young man is not going to change fast enough to keep you around you're going to move on because i don't think he's marriage material i know he's not marriage material today and it's because john opened up with run i mean that was his opening answer was run and and i like to think of these calls as what do i do if josephine comes home from college and says dad i found a guy right yeah and dave you may not have experienced this and that's me being sarcastic i'm sure you did but sheila had people sit down and and talk to her like are you sure you know what you're doing with him?

Like they would take her out. I kept sharing away from those people. Oh, man. They found Sheila. Like, are you sure? And she's like, I'm sure. Her parents had to be rolling their eyes when I walked in. I wouldn't let my daughter date me. Not in a million years.

Oh, man. I don't even want to go down that road. So there is that, right? But, goodness. But Sharon did not take me on as a project. No. And I didn't even want to go down that road. So there is that, right? But, goodness. But Sharon did not take me on as a project. No. And I didn't take her on as a project. We were both projects, but we didn't take each other on as a project.

Everybody has a project, right? But, yes. Sheila did not get her self-esteem by saying, I'm going to fix John. Right. Yeah. It's just good parenting to run those guys off if you have the opportunity. You know, I'm just like, Daddy, all the boys in the youth group are scared of you and i went good keeps away two things wusses and jerks don't need either one dating my daughter it keeps away more than it keeps away everything wusses and jerks pretty

well you can put most things in those two buckets i did the same bucket well yeah it's something at times at times at times but just run Annalee run this is the Ramsey Show Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today.

This is The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. John and Ashley are with us in New Hampshire. It says on my screen you guys are debt-free. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Well done.

How much have you paid off? $75,000. All right. How long did this take? 11 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? About $105,000 to $120,000.

Cool. What do you guys do for a living? We work for your friends at the kgb actually okay cool hey that that admittedly took me a second because anyone in my life who would actually know the real kgb would probably be dave so it took me a second but i got it now no i got irs yes yes the uh the phone calls that I take with individuals that owe balances are a lot different now. I educate a lot now. Well, thank you.

Thank you. That's very good. So tell us your story. What kind of debt was this? We had one auto loan, but it was multiple upside-downs wrapped into one, so it was like a $650 payment for one auto loan. Yes. Student loans. we financed our bed we had a best buy card for the washer and dryer um and that was it the way you said we financed our bed so we just kept getting heard him make fun of people for doing that before

you financed what yeah yeah well where you haven't we all and and so how long have you I've heard him make fun of people for doing that before. You finessed what? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, haven't we all? And so how long have you guys been married? A little over three years. Okay. So what happened 11 months ago?

What was the turning point? Well, we were on our way to make another bad financial decision. We were going to our credit union to ask about their 40-year mortgage offer. And then they told us that we could sit down with a financial advisor because we were members. So we got an hour and he said, you guys have a bad debt to income ratio. So maybe hold off on that. Oh, when the bank won't take your money, that's when you know you got a problem, right? Yeah. So, I mean, I went home after speaking with him and, you know, just did what most people do, just checked out videos on YouTube and the algorithm hit, you know, Dave Ramsey videos. And I don't know, I spent probably the next two weeks just analyzing and analyzing until

I finally brought it to Ashley's attention. She was like, why'd you wait so long? Let's go. Let's do this. Ah, okay. We bought a PU right after that, and it was kind of, you know, hit the ground running. Just go. Game on.

When the student is ready, the teacher will appear, huh? Exactly. Yeah, the app said it was going to take 20 months, and we did it in 11. Yeah. Well, that's because you decided to do it all and do it all with a game-on attitude. I'm proud of you. Don't mess with IRS agents. Yeah.

Very well. What was the movie, Men in Black? They will get it done. Did you flashy thing me? Yeah. Oh, man. You guys, that's impressive. So well done. So now that you did it, now that you're successful, you successfully got out of debt, something Congress can't do,

what would you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Budget, for sure. We thought we were only going to have $100 extra a month to put at the debt, and when we did the budget, we found $2,000 that we could put towards the budget without overtime. Wow. Yes, and saying no. We have three young kids, so we learned quickly to say no. Okay. And they didn't die away they didn't leave you they're not in counseling yeah right no no they're they're

perfectly fine they're happy with it actually we explained to them what we were doing and they loved watching the colors of the car loan you know getting higher with us paying it off. They would come in and check every day, and they'd get mad at us if it didn't go down. Ah, turned it into a game. Yeah, they were our biggest cheerleaders. That's fun. Good for you guys. Well, it sounds like there's a lot of transformation happening in the house during this time.

Yes, for sure. So talk to me about that drive home with your head held low to that husband who's like, man, I've got to figure this out. How's your marriage now? Well, communication is obviously, I mean, we both work there. I mean, everyone critiques us for like, or just asks, you know, how do you spend 24-7 with each other, you know, and it's because of the communication. And, you know, we tackled it together, you know, for sure.

So I am the numbers guy, and I just would sit there and crunch and crunch, and she just would make it work. She took over with the budget. We'd have the meetings, and, you know, she'd sit in there and do the transactions. And so it's just the constant communication back and forth. The teamwork. Precisely. Love it.

Well done, you guys. Very well done. I'm so proud of you. So this is an interesting thing I want to follow the thread through. You meet with the financial advisor at the credit union. He says you have too high a debt-to-income ratio, meaning you is broke. And you come home, spend a couple of weeks poring over YouTube videos. That leads you into Financial Peace University.

What do you feel like looking back on that journey you've been through? What was the core message that you got from us that caused you to be able to do this? To me, preparing for the future. You know, kind of like Dr. John said, you know, me hanging my head down low, like, how do I figure this out? Well, that was just for us to try to get out of, you know, my parents' home with three kids. We were living with my parents. And, you know, I was like, how can I, you know, fix this? You know, it was my student loans, and, you know, that was one of the biggest problems.

But, you know, it was just, you know, pushing through and, you know, looking forward to the ability to set them up, educate them so that they don't make the same mistakes that I do. So it's kind of like you're more willing to sacrifice when you have a higher calling, something other than just, I want to buy crap. Mine was the give part. Yeah. Being able to get to the point where I can give back.

Yeah. That was the biggest thing for me, other than setting my kids up for success but yeah but change your family tree and generosity or non-selfish noble higher calling goals right versus i want to buy a nice car exactly and by the way you can do both you don't have to they're not mutually exclusive but but i want to buy a nice car someday isn't enough motivation to sacrifice i want to change my kids' lives. You can sacrifice. The six-year-old's already saving for a Tesla.

Because he's not going to borrow money from the bank, he said. He's going to save for it now. I like this guy. When he's 55, he'll have earned that money to afford that car. He's got like 200 already. He'll have more than Elon has himself, so there you go. I love it. Congratulations, you guys.

We're so proud of you. We got a copy of Rachel Cruz's book for you, her latest New York Times bestseller. It's called Know Yourself, Know Your Money. You guys are an impressive couple. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. John and Ashley from New Hampshire, 75,000 paid off in 11 months, making 105 to 120. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yes! I think I heard that family tree joining in. Man. That's the way it's supposed to be. The roots called out on that one. That's the way the sound of a family tree changing right there.

You get that chipmunk voice going in there with it. That's when you know you're on track, baby. Man. That gives me goosebumps when I hear the kids yelling. It's fun stuff. That means they were plugged in. They were dialed in. They knew what was going on.

And that's Sophia. They got it on our screen here. Sophia, Jackson, and Grayson were joining in. They were dialed in. They knew what was going on. And that's Sophia. They got it on our screen here. Sophia Jackson and Grayson were joining in there. So congratulations. And they got to watch mom and dad do hard things. And they learned, hey, we can do hard things. And, man, there's something about growing up in a debt-free house. That's a legacy shift.

There's something about giving your kid a car and a house and paid for college. That's a legacy shift. There's something about giving your kid a car and a house and paid for college. That's cool. There's also something about letting your kids watch you struggle and learn. The word no. No is a powerful word. I can do hard stuff. Mom and dad can do hard stuff. I can do hard stuff.

Love it. This is the Ramsey Show. Have you ever asked questions like, how much should I be saving? Or, how do I get out of debt faster? Or, what's the right way to invest? Or, I don't know where to learn about money. Well, here's the good news. You don't have to figure all this out on your own. Ramsey Plus will guide you every step of the way.

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John is with us in Atlanta. Hi, John. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me. Sure. How can we help? Well, Dave, I'm calling in because I'm 27 years old. I've got a stable job with the federal government that pays pretty well. And I'm just kind of looking forward at my future here. And it seems like a lot of the people who stay in this position, um, kind of end up losing passion for what they do. And, um,

I'm starting to notice myself losing passion for what I do. And so, you know, when I bring this up with my family, they kind of tell me, um, you should stick with it. You've got a pension there. Um, you know, you've got ironclad job security, but I feel like if I stay here, I'm going to go crazy. How old are you? I wanted to know. I'm 27. How long have you been there, man?

Two years. How many two years? Two. And what is it you do exactly daily? Well, I work as a statistician so basically i'm you know they they try to automate a lot of the things that my organization does now and so i'm involved with with that what do you love doing man well um i i do love working with numbers i I do love, um, statistics. It's what I studied in school.

Why is this driving you crazy then? Well, it's driving me crazy because I just don't, uh, I don't know. It just doesn't seem like the people who work here are very passionate about what they do. I mean, um, yeah, you're, I don't, let's don't care about them for a second. What about you? It's okay to be in a room where you like what you're doing,

even if the people around you don't. Um, no, because the problem, sorry, the problem is that what a lot of the times what ends up happening is that if you're passionate, you know,

you end up getting extra work, but because of the way what ends up happening is that if you're passionate, you know, you end up getting extra work, but because of the way the system works, there's not really, there's not really much advancement. So it just becomes frustrating. What, what, what does the word passionate mean to you? I've been hearing my students use that word passionate for years now. What does that mean to you? Well, I suppose that what it means is that sometimes, you know, you wake up in the morning and you don't want to do something and it's okay to feel like that sometimes. But if you feel like that day after day after day, then that means that you lack passion. So passion means that, I guess, over a long period of time, you can look back at what you've done and say, you know,

I really enjoyed doing that. That really made me feel like I was doing something important. Good answer. Okay. So what's the downside with you going to work someplace else well i would lose um i would lose my job security for one thing you don't have any job security there's no such thing you work for the federal government brother yeah they lay people off you guys they lay people off too they're probably not going to go broke

i don't think but um but they lay people off too and your job're probably not going to go broke, I don't think. But they lay people off, too. And you're only as secure as your ability to do things that people want to pay you for. And if you're a statistician who likes statistics, you're going to be employable for a long time. In a data-driven world? Yeah, this whole world's driven off of data right now. And you're a data analyst if there ever was one right right yeah i mean i suppose that you probably can make twice as much money yeah if not three times yeah i'm sure yeah i'm sure it's just that you know security is an illusion dude it's a drug brother yeah you need to get out of there um because i mean you're 27 years old project this out you're going to be 57 30 years of doing this

you already sound old right now i can't imagine how old you'll sound then that's a great line i was trying to think what he's not depressed you just sound old man you sound 74 yeah you know can you imagine how old you're going to be when you're 57 good god you'll be a thousand in government years and government employee years yeah hey listen the people around you the people who who are giving you advice um they mean well but they're just wrong they yeah they are telling you they love you in the only language they know how, which is you being safe and you being secure, which we know is an illusion.

But they're doing the best they can with what they got. And at some point, you've got to get off the drug of safety, get off the illusion of safety, and jump. So, John, one of my heroes was my grandpa. In the Great Depression, he was 27 years old, oddly enough. And in the stock market crash, he lost a business and went and went broke and alcoa aluminum had come to alcoa tennessee in the hills of east tennessee and opened a plant and he went to work for them he worked there 38 years and never left because of the fear partly because of the fear of uh having broke when he was young, and partly because he was a good man and wanted to provide for his family, and the stability of that was there.

In that environment, my grandmother became really dependent upon that security that you're talking about. And a humorous story, the first time I sold my millionth book, I've sold about 20 million now. About the time I sold my millionth book, which means I had made millions and millions of dollars, okay, if you can imagine, my grandmother called and still was worried about me running my own little business. When are you going to get a real job, Dave? That's exactly what she said. She called up and said, honey, I'm worried about you. When are you going to get a real

job? And I had just sold my millionth book. Now, she's sweet, and I understood where she was coming from, because I know the story, and my grandpa was my hero, and I understand. He's just one of my favorite people that I ever knew on this planet. I miss him greatly to this day,

but the... And I loved her. I loved her, too, as well. She's sweet as she could be. But that was her love language from the environment and the situation, the way they had lived life, was to say, when are you going to get a real job? And she meant well. John, just like the people in your life mean well. But I had just sold a million books. I think we can safely say the data, the statistical evidence is that she was wrong.

Okay. And here's the thing. If you go out on your own and you give it three or four years and it doesn't work, my guess is you could probably get a job. Probably get your job right back. That's right. Maybe not that exact one with that exact department or whatever, but whoop-dee-doop-dee. You have a marketable skill in a data-driven world. Data is the businesses that don't understand, grasp, and harness the power of data

in the next decade will be out of business. It's not optional. So you are a highly sought-after individual in your world. And so that's – I'm telling you, I think you're probably making about half or maybe a fourth of what you're worth. And you're giving it all up in the name of security that's not really there anyway. Get out. Yeah. You can just hear, I can hear your soul leaking out.

It's leaking out of your body. Get out. Get out. Get out. Get out. Yeah. There's something to be said for I want you to be safe. And so I want you to drown slowly.

Right? I want you to be safe. Well so I want you to drown slowly. Right? I want you to be safe. Well, I don't think everyone should be an entrepreneur. No, absolutely not. I don't think everyone should be on straight commission. I don't mean that. But, you know, you're only as secure as your own ability to land the next thing because you have talent. Yep.

And people want to work with you. Yep. Yep. Marketable skills and personality and so forth. That's your only real security because everything else is smoke and mirrors. The guy making the payroll, he's scared too. Mm-hmm. And you think you're secure.

That's funny. You know? This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramseyshow.com. Thanks for listening.