The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Deal With a Relative Who Won't Apologize? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 18, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Dr. John Bologna, and today I'm here to walk alongside you with your mental health challenges, your relationship challenges, trying to just be here in the middle of a mess. We're all going through it. You, me, my family, your family, we're all in this together trying to figure out the next crooked, wobbly thing to do. So give me a call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. And we already have somebody on the phone here. Let's

go to Justin in Lincoln, Nebraska. Justin, how are we doing, my man? I'm doing well. Thanks for taking my call. Hey, thanks for calling. What's going on, brother? How can I help? Yeah, so my wife and I, we're both teachers, both music teachers, and with all the craziness going on, there have been a lot of restrictions at school, and I think we're both really dealing with kind of lack of motivation of going to work, lack of motivation to be teaching, and basically just feeling burnt out it's been a rough year yeah so man first before we dig into it can i just say thank you for what you're doing um my wife's a teacher i've got we've got teachers all my mom's a teacher my dad's teacher i'm just hearing these stories and it is just sucking the soul out of the folks who have dedicated their lives to serving young people across the country.

And my heart goes out to you, man, for you and your wife and the teachers across the country who are waking up every day and grinding this thing out. Some folks are teaching in person but partially on the computer, and some people are teaching all on the computer. And my son's taking violin lessons via Zoom, which is a whole weird, wacky ecosystem. Man, you can't keep his attention with a marching band, much less a Zoom conference, right? He just got sent home yesterday. It's just a mess. And so thank you so much for grinding this thing out. How can I help you two? Basically, we both come home at the end of the day and we're trying to figure out you know how to find the the positives in this year and how to stay motivated for the kids because

we know right now they need school but it's just we're having a hard time feeling excited to be there and it's affecting the way we're teaching the kids and i think affecting the way that we are with each other at home yeah let's i want to hear some about that tell me about you and your wife how are y'all doing together not great um no together we're doing pretty well um we're both i mean she's incredible we're both very supportive of each other you know keeping things together at home we have a an eight month, which adds to the fun and stress of the year. Man, golly. But as far as the two of us, I mean, we're doing really well.

It's just the work aspect of it. We're both struggling to be excited to go to work. What are your core competencies? What do you two teach? She teaches K-6 elementary music, and I teach the other half, 7-12 music in the same district. So we're in charge of all the music stuff with everything being canceled and i think that's where a lot of the struggle comes in we don't really have anything to look forward to for

events like we have in the past because we're just not allowed to do you know no concerts or trips or anything like that so oh my gosh i forgot there's not going to be any Christmas concerts. There's going to be no elves and sing-alongs and any of that stuff. So let me give you this moment of grace here. I don't want you guys to feel pressured to, quote-unquote, find the good in every day. It's okay for you two music teachers either to get home and have to put all your clothes in the shower and go through the the challenge of hoping your baby's not going to get sick and hoping your in-laws are going to be able to come visit and not visit all that stuff or closing the computer down after eight hours of teaching elementary school kids and middle school and high school kids music via Zoom,

y'all can shut the computer down and just look at each other and say, today sucked. This wasn't great. And not try to fake it for one another. Be completely present with each other. You get to do that, okay? I wish there was a nicer way to say what's going on. It just sucks.

It's not great man And there are certain big wins There are certain cool moments And I'm listening to my son's music teacher And man she is trying with everything she's got She is the peppiest Kindest soul And she's giving it a shot

But there are just There are just lessons when it sounds awful It's not good right And then be real careful with one another about not comparing where each other is. And that's one of the most common things I hear from folks who are struggling in their jobs, their spouses struggling in their job. And then there becomes this grief comparison, this cycle of, well, I had a bad day, but it's not as bad as hers. And so you squash yours down and you lean into the scarcity mindset, right? Well, I guess it

could have been worse or the opposite. Your husband comes in and says, my day was really rough. And your response is, oh yeah, well, mine was super rough, right? And it just, now you're into a track meet here as to whose life is the worst, right? And so give each other grace. And by the way, you have an eight-month-old brother. If this was the perfect year just for whatever it's worth, is this your first kid? This is. Okay, so you all two would be navigating christmas concerts and an eight month old and

you'd be navigating the thanksgiving performance where these little kids dress up and all these just beautiful and sweet and cute and train wreck costumes and an eight month old and you guys would be navigating your first um in-law christmas holiday season with an 8 month old and so it would not be fun regardless of what's going on in the world so give you and your wife some grace on this deal and just promise me this

just keep showing up for those kids keep being honest with one another keep listening and loving each other give each other some slack. Give each other some grace. Reach out to somebody if the heaviness just gets a little bit dark. A little bit too dark.

And continue to exhale. You teachers. You nurses. You doctors. You firefighters. police officers, community leaders, you folks who are showing up and showing up. Some of you are in cities where you are being extra graceful, trying to be overly animated because you're trying to make human connection wearing a mask.

Others are being told you're not allowed to wear a mask, and we're asking you to go into these folks' homes into hard situations and your heart's racing. Every time you go home, every time you close the computer, you're wondering, is someone at home going to be sick? You're wondering if you can just keep getting up

and doing this job over and over again. Hang in there with us. Find somebody you can be vulnerable with. Find somebody you can be vulnerable with. Find somebody you can be honest with and open with. Stop trying to be tough. Holidays are hard. This year's holidays are going to be especially hard.

Exhale. Get some sleep. Eat right. Exercise when you can. And make sure you're connecting with other people make sure you are reaching out Dr. John Deloney give me a call at 888-825-5225 this is the Dave Ramsey Show I get the privilege every day to talk to smart, creative entrepreneurs doing great things for our economy. GRIP6 is no exception. BJ and the great team at GRIP6 know how to truly create smart products that are unique

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the dave ramsey special visit grip6.com this is the d Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney. Sitting in here today with you, the listener, whether you're driving in your car, you're here at work, you're out going for a walk in your neighborhood, you're mowing the lawn, I'm happy to be here with you. We're taking calls about your life.

You can throw a money question at me. I might be able to answer it. I'm not near as smart as Dave. Y'all sleep on that guy. People just think Dave just talks about not getting out of debt. That guy is a savant. I've been around some super smart people over the years. That guy's real, real smart behind closed doors.

He just plays Dave on the radio, right? Is that right? No, that's right. He plays smart all the time. But give me a call at 888-825-5225. And he's just real good looking. All right, let's go to Carissa in Kansas City, Kansas. Carissa, how are we doing? Hey, Dr. D. Nice to talk to you. It's so nice to talk to you. How can I help? Hey, just have a question. I have a relative that continues to be offensive, and when they apologize, their apology is always, I'm sorry if I offended you. Just wondering what your thoughts are and how to respond to somebody that's their form of apology.

When you say they're offensive, dig into that for me. What do you mean? Well, it's a sister-in-law. So I've been married for 12 years. She just, she likes to make lots of digs and comments towards, in her opinion, of our lives. I guess I could get into specifics if you wanted to. Does she think you're not good enough for her brother? I think she feels that I try to keep him from his family, if that makes sense. Yeah. Is it true? No, no. I think that once my husband and I got married, I know, I know that every family has

dysfunction, levels of dysfunction, but I think he didn't maybe realize how much dysfunction his family had until, you know, he got married to me. My family has dysfunction, don't get me wrong, but the level of dysfunction, and I think he has a difficult time dealing with some of the dysfunction. I do try to encourage him to have relations with his family, call them, talk to them. He just struggles with that. I think maintaining contact with them, I guess, is the way that I would say it. And so his sister blames you for your husband, for her brother, not wanting to reach out to them. Correct. He's found peace and new relationships. He's realized, oh man, there's another way to live. that's not everybody angry and biting and blaming.

I'd rather just spend my time there and not over with that massive dysfunction you talk about, and she blames you for it, huh? So when do you have to see her or when do you have to interact with her? So we try to visit once a year. And this coming trip was supposed to be for Thanksgiving. And that's where the whole scenario went down was that her and her family had just recently tested positive. But she was reassuring everyone that she would be totally fine for COVID, I mean, for Thanksgiving. And, you know, we were just supposed to go along with still wanting to come, which we all know that COVID is different for different people. It

affects people differently. Some people can recover very quickly from it and some people may not. And so to, you know, be offended that we want to wait until we know that everyone is well before we decide about coming or not seem to be what made her the most upset, I guess, is how to say that. So I want you to imagine your kitchen table, okay, in your house. Sure. And on that kitchen table is a little box. Think of an old antique jewelry box. Okay? And it's completely empty, and the lid is open on it.

Okay. And inside that box are three or four people that you have given permission to speak into your life. One of those is your husband. Okay? He gets a vote. You don't have to tell me who the other one, two, or three are. It could be an old friend or two from college that you still are connected to.

It could be a lifelong friend. It could be a mentor. It could even be your parents. Probably not, but maybe. It could be any number. But one of the people not in that box is your sister-in-law. She absolutely doesn't get a vote. And the conversation you need to have with your husband about the boundaries y'all are going to set for your family moving forward is this. If she is sick with a pandemic illness and her response to your concern is, are you serious?

As opposed to, hey, I got sick and I absolutely think I'm going to be okay. But I 100% understand if people are uncomfortable. I'm so sorry. We'll figure something out for Christmas. What a mess this is. I want everyone to be safe and okay. If that's not her heart, then she doesn't have your best interest in mind. She has a fantasy of a Thanksgiving she can control.

And what you have the right to do, I'm expecting you to do this. You should do this. You and your husband together. Because you all get to create a world where she doesn't get to speak into it. And that may mean that if she can't handle your boundaries, that y'all don't go there for Thanksgiving anymore. If she's not able to seek the best interest of those that she loves, then she doesn't get a vote on what you guys do for the holidays. That may mean that you'll have to come up with some new traditions,

and that'll be hard, and people won't understand, and they'll call you an idiot, and they'll blame you, and that's hopefully your husband will step in there too and say, no, no, no, no, my family, I'm making some of these decisions in concert with my wife. This isn't just her. Hopefully he will do that for you. But at the end of the day, she doesn't get a vote. Now your very original question had to do with apology, right?

Correct, yes. Here's my rule of thumb for apologies. Apologies are for me. If I hurt somebody and I apologize to them and they choose to not accept it, that's a choice they've made. I can't control what they're going to do. I can control if I did something, if I tried to rectify a wrong with the best integrity I knew how to do, which is to say I'm sorry. If somebody doesn't apologize the way that you want them to, just put that brick down.

Don't carry that around. Because it's not going to change them. They clearly don't care, right? Sure. And all you're choosing to do by carrying that around is you're going to weigh yourself down. You're going to weigh your relationship with your kids down, with your husband down.

You're just going to cause yourself more grief and pain. If someone doesn't want to apologize to you, that's their deal. Would it feel nice to get a true apology? Absolutely. It feels so good. But you're not going to get it, right? Right. And so choosing to beat yourself up over it, choosing to carry it around, don't do that.

Just set it down. And she might be trying to apologize with the only tools and words she knows how. She may just not be good at it. And, man, it would be great if she wouldn't try to qualify every apology. That'd be awesome. But she's not going to. So just set that down. But I think you and your husband need to start today.

Start tonight. Start tomorrow. Paint a picture of what you want Thanksgiving to look like. That doesn't include your family first. Say, what do we actually want to get out of Thanksgiving? We want to relax. We want to be around loved ones. We want to support our kids.

We want to have some joy for the first time in a few months. We want to be safe. We want to be healthy. And if that doesn't involve his sister this time, then it doesn't involve his sister this time. And he can make that phone call and say, hey, I'm choosing to not come this time. We're going to go ahead and let y'all know now. And we're going to try to rally back up in December and then we'll have a good time. But if not, man, just let it go. You get to choose who hurts you you get to choose who has a voice into your life

you chose him, that's one you just got a few other spots in that box on your kitchen table and she's not in there and if you're ever going to have a time when you're going to redo holiday traditions you're going to do things a little bit differently. This is the year to all you couples out there listening tonight, tomorrow, sit down and say, before we just launch into the car, before we get on the airplane, what do we want Thanksgiving to look like? What do we want Christmas to look like?

Y'all can make that choice. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney. Walking alongside you in life, your relationships, with your mental health, whatever you're working through. And listen, it's the most wonderful time of the year. Please be the most wonderful time of the year this year. Believe it or not, Christmas is just around the corner. I saw an awesome meme the other day that just had March, flatten the curve, and a bunch of squiggly lines, and then it just said December, right? So here we are. Christmas is just around the corner. I can't even believe it. Here at the Ramsey office, we are going to be proactive about putting joy and cheer out into

the world, right? So to celebrate, we're going to give away cash all season long. Enter our Ramsey Christmas giveaway daily to increase your chances of winning one of our weekly $500 prizes or our $5,000 grand prize. Enter at DaveRamsey.com slash giveaway. And plus, if you're looking for life-changing gifts for family or friends, our famous $10 sale is back. It's back. This is not the year to buy garbage and another shiny thing and another claspy thing.

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Between holiday stress and family craziness, this time of year can create a lot of anxiety. My little book's only 80 pages long. It's short. You can read it in a couple hours. But it will help you understand the four biggest myths about anxiety so you can start to get your life back. But that's just one.

There's a ton of other books there. Enter to win some cash and save some serious money on your Christmas shopping today at DaveRamsey.com slash giveaway. No purchase necessary to win some cash and save some serious money on your Christmas shopping today at DaveRamsey.com slash giveaway. No purchase necessary to win, and you can enter daily to increase your chances. Let's do it. Let's intentionally find ways we can inject some joy into the year. Let's do it. All right, let's go to Jody in Durham, North Carolina. Jody, what's happening? Hey, John.

How's it going? Outstanding. How are you? I'm doing well. I really like Dave's phrase, better than I deserve. I think it encompasses a lot of gratitude and humility, and both of those are very good things. You are exactly right. So I don't want to steal his phrase, but that's – yeah, I don't want to steal his phrase, but that is how I am. You're allowed to steal it.

I'm not allowed to steal it i said focus not finish the other day and i thought hogan was going to flip my car over in the parking lot so i've got to come up with my own sayings i'm not there yet i'll get there someday right but yes better than i deserve is excellent so how can i help jody okay um you have to forgive me it's been a bit of an emotional day. No, no problem. I'll take your time. My seven-year-old son has a genetic degenerative retina disease and is going blind. I'm so sorry. He was diagnosed when he was 10 months old, and his family has been behind him every step of the way fighting against blindness. But we learned two weeks ago that this battle is about to come to an end and that his vision is now very rapidly declining.

You know, we've had these peaks and these valleys along the way. We've had wonderful times. I'm so immensely filled with gratitude that he's had vision this long because when all of this was first happening six years ago, I didn't think that he would. So I guess I have two questions for you, and I hope other families out there who have visually impaired or blind children during this time when schools are closed due to COVID can hear this and maybe gain some insight from it as well, because it's really been a struggle. The first is, you know, he's not unhealthy. Nobody's dying. But it feels very much like that. There's just this deep sense of grief that comes with this. And I have to keep reminding myself of how fortunate we are, how fortunate he is. I know he's going to be okay in his life. I mean, I know that at my core, but it doesn't stop this

just deep grief from striking. To give you an example, you know, two weeks ago, there was this peak. We were excited because he could see the reds and oranges on the leaves as they were changing in fall. And that was wonderful. And then last week, I plunged back into grief when all the leaves turned brown and started falling off the trees, knowing that this is probably, you know, we're all going to see the fall leaves next year, but he probably won't. So how do you reconcile the grief with the gratitude? Because then I end up feeling guilty for not being grateful enough for what we have. And then I feel badly about that. Yeah, so Jodi, listen.

Grief and joy are not mutually exclusive. In fact, they work together as partners. And comparing grief is one way to send you to an early grave. The worst thing you can do to your body, literally physiologically, biologically, and the worst thing you can do for your mental health, and really the worst thing you can do for your body, literally physiologically, biologically. And the worst thing you can do for your mental health, and really the worst thing you can do for your relationships, is compare grief up against something else. Instead of just feeling it, acknowledging it.

And I will say it for you, Jody. You have a beautiful little boy who is healthy, and it sucks that he's losing his vision. It's not fair. It's not right. It's not the way things are supposed to be. It just sucks. And you get to own that.

You get to feel that. You get to sit in that, and denying it doesn't make it go away. Comparing it, well, yeah, but other kids somewhere else in the world, that doesn't help those kids and it doesn't help your kid. And so hugging him and tell him, this is

really hard and I'm sorry. This really, really stinks. And if I could, I would do anything I could to make it go away. Let him hear you hurt, and it will make him feel not crazy too. You get to honor him by teaching him how to grieve and how to eat, teaching him how to grieve and still get his bed made. You get to give him that joy of connection, and connection is not just in good stuff.

It's also in bad stuff, right? So those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Just promise me and your husband and your kids you will not play the grief comparison game. It's just a futile exercise. I've heard it especially during COVID. Somebody calling and saying through tears, I've been planning this wedding for two years, and it just got canceled.

But at least I've still got my husband, right? We had to go to the JP. Then the next call is, man, I just got furloughed, but they didn't fire me. I know that people are losing their job. And the comparison goes on. I had to spend 10 days in the hospital, but I didn't pass away, and so I shouldn't be upset that I was in the hospital. Everybody's saying stop.

You get to own your grief. It just sucks. It just sucks. And you mentioned something important. I'd love to hear you extrapolate on a little bit. Blindness is incredibly isolating. And when you can be in a room full of people who love you and care about you, if you can be with a supportive group of kids at school, then there's some, there's some connection there. It's a different connection, right? But it's still a connection.

You don't get that on a Zoom call, right? You don't, and our schools here have been closed for the last eight months. There's no hybrid reopening or anything like that currently. And, yeah, I mean, his classmates used to high-five him when he was coming down the hallway, and there was connection. I think the other thing that's so challenging here is, I mean, he doesn't read print. He reads Braille. But Braille instruction is very tactile, and these kids need to be touched.

They need their hand mechanics. They need their hands held by other teachers that know what they're doing. I mean, it's a very specific way of teaching a child. And he's incredibly bright. He has this wonderful sense of humor. And that, Jody, is where you're going to have to step in. And it's going to be a long road and a hard road. But that's where you've got to this, this wacky, weird time. It's where you got to lean in and be extra hands-on, extra honest,

extra transparent and call in reinforcements when you can. He is so blessed to have you as a mom. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm John Deloney. Walking alongside you and your family and your challenges and your kids and your mental health issues or joys that you've got. Maybe 2020 hasn't been a complete dumpster fire for you. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Andrew in Fort Worth. Andrew, how are we doing, brother?

I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing, I'm going to say what the boss says. I'm doing better than I deserve. How can I help, man? Well, I have an interesting question. So I am in the recovery process. I'm an alcoholic. I started my recovery process probably about three years ago when I was in college. And it took me a while

to kind of get traction around it. But at the end of this month, I'll have a year sober. Dude, hold on, hold on. You've made it through the pandemic year sober. That's right. It's the craziest year but andrew how i managed in front of you god and america i want to say congratulations my brother thank you i appreciate it if you looked at the statistics of how much people are drinking in 2020 and to think this is the year you picked to double down and getting well on double down on your health, re-establishing relationships. Man, I'm so proud of you. Congratulations, my friend. Good for you. So how can I help? So I do have a question about

relationships. So one of the steps in a recovery process in the program of recovery that I'm in is reaching out and trying to make amends with people that you've harmed. Yes, sir. So what that looks like is that can either be directly or indirectly. Yes, sir. So that can be people you've harmed through your drinking directly, you know, talking bad about them in whatever way it looks like, or just not being the friend, not being the person that, you know, you should have been. And so, you know, the reason behind it is, as alcoholics, you always know over your past actions, kind of as the person that you were before you got sober.

That's right. And so in the process, I've had to reach out to people who I've thought I've harmed. I've had some really great experiences of people, you know, who, you know, were just so happy for me and, you know, glad that I reached out. And then I've also had, you know, kind of, you know, bad feelings about, you know, trying to reach out to kind of more of the difficult ones. And so I guess my question is, you know, how you kind of go about reaching out to someone where you feel like, you know, there may be some, there may be some stuff from the past that you're still working through. But, you know, I mean, is it probably right to reach out? Or, you know, should I probably give people some space and not reach out?

Sounds like you're trying to avoid hard conversations, Andrew. Well, exactly. I mean, that's pretty much what it comes down to. I mean, I guess I rationalize it by saying, you know, maybe they don't think about it as much as me, or maybe. Yeah, listen, listen, Andrew, if you have, if you have, you have walked along with the sponsor for a year, if you have remained open with your group for a year, if you have committed that these are the steps I'm going to walk, you need to see it through. You can't just do the less hard part of getting well. And this isn't just alcoholics, right?

This is folks who have to walk back through childhood traumas. These are folks who said something really awful to their wife. This is somebody that sent that text they just should not have sent. This is those folks that have to walk into their boss and say, Hey, man, yesterday, dude, I was bad-mouthed. I'm sorry. This is when it gets real, and this is when you're going to find out. Are you in or are you out? Because my guess is you've made the call to the folks who you knew would cheer for you.

And there's probably three or four or five or six or ten folks that you still owe money to that you legitimately hurt in a deep way. And if this is the plan you're on, this is the path you've chosen to walk, then absolutely you've got to step up and do the hard thing. And that's what your sponsor's for. You're not doing this alone, right? You're not out here on an island, Andrew. You've got people at your meetings that are there to support you.

You've got your sponsor there to support you. And this is when you really start leaning into the hard stuff. Right. And I think I've made some of those more difficult calls. Um, the reason that I'm having trouble around it is that, um, particularly for me, but a lot of people, um, there's a lot of traumatic experiences that you have when you're in your addiction. For example, you know, drinking so much that you don't remember what you did or how you would have harmed someone. And so what that looks like is you wake up the next day, people are so mad at you, people won't talk to you, or your phone's blown up with text messages

of different things that people said you did. And you genuinely don't know. And so having to reach out to people and apologize, um, you know, things that maybe you don't remember, but actually hurt them, I find is more difficult because it's kind of more difficult to own that. It is. And it's not, it is because you don't have a list of specifics. You don't have a checklist. It is because the way you apologize in those moments is on your face. Totally humble. Not to a process, not to a checklist, but to a person you hurt.

To a person you hurt. And they may not accept your apology. They may tell you to get up and get out. And they're allowed to do that. It's so much easier when you know exactly, because then you can prep, right? You can write a little note card and practice the speech and go over and over and over. It's way harder.

When you've got to take that free fall plunge of humility and get down on your face in front of somebody and say years ago I was sick and I hurt you and I'm sorry I'm not even certain what I did but I know

that your life has been impacted negatively because of me, my choices, my decisions, and I'm so, so sorry. And that's the best you can do. So yeah, Andrew, it's time. It's time. Tis the season, my brother. You've made it this far. I absolutely 100% believe in you. And listen, other people

are the emergency fund for life. That's me stealing from Dave. He talks about having an emergency fund financially, having that thousand dollar emergency fund that three to six months. Other people are your emergency fund for life. We cannot do this by ourselves. Period. We can't. Sounds cool in theory. Just going to pull myself up by my bootstraps. You can't. That's the beauty of a program like AA.

That's the beauty of a group of men that get together every Monday night and laugh together, tell jokes together, check in on each other, ask each other how their marriages are doing. That's the beauty of a group of women who get together and read books, who talk one another, who are mechanics. I don't care. Whatever it is, it's a good church group.

It's a good group of folks who work in the same department who get together after work. Or who Zoom call nowadays. Other people are the emergency fund for life. And Andrew, you're not making these calls alone. You are going to have to walk through a wilderness of not knowing. Walk through a wilderness of other people's hurt. And that's the whole point of this step.

That's the whole point. It's making amends. Cleaning up the mess. Saying those two magic words. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. If people would begin saying the words I'm sorry, the world would change today.

Find somebody in your life today. Say words, I'm sorry. The world would change today. Find somebody in your life today. Say the words, I'm sorry. Say the words, I'm sorry. That's it, America. We're done with this hour. I want to thank producer James Childs and associate producer Kelly Daniel and all the engineers back there. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.

Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.