The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Deal With a Toxic In-Law? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 11, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. He's the host of the very popular Dr. John Deloney podcast. The popularity is going up and to the right. It's hockey sticking.

The numbers are amazing. So if you want to hear a really entertaining show about life and people's questions about relationships and so forth, he's there. And he's here today to help you as well. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Speaking of calls for Dr. John, Caleb's with us in Austin, Texas. Hi, Caleb. How are you?

Good. Better than I deserve. How about you guys? Just the same, sir. How can we help? Good, Jared. Well, I'm calling on behalf of my amazing wife.

Her and her mom had a falling out probably about three years ago. I'm sorry, say that again. How long ago? Probably about three years ago. Three years ago. Okay. Yeah. And it's still pretty hectic. And so my...

What does that mean? What does hectic mean? It's not pretty hectic. What does that mean? What does hectic mean? It's not a good relationship. So we had our son. He just turned nine months. They met once. And kind of the rules we have is he's not allowed at our house, and our son's not allowed over there.

And it's weighing heavy on my wife. So why do you feel the need to draw? That's a hard boundary. Why do you feel the need to draw that boundary? It's just a cancerous person, I guess, to say. Be more specific. You're talking pretty vague. Be specific.

Something happened that said you cannot be with my kid. What does she do that is a danger to your child? Well, just the environment. Her boyfriend is not the best man in the world. She's very negative. She's always, our marriage would last. And she would tell people we're not going to last. When my wife got pregnant, she said, you know, that I wasn't going to stick around.

And we had a miscarriage, and she just blew it off. And my wife just recently asked her if they could go to counseling and try and fix it, and she was just like, I'll think about it. And it's just, I mean, it's just, to me, my kind of view is if it's just the thought of being around someone stresses me out, I just don't even want to deal with that. That's easier said than when it's your mom. Yeah.

And your wife has a picture in her head of this new baby, and her mom's a part of that. And she had to draw boundaries for whatever reason. I still don't fully get it, but she had to draw some boundaries that doesn't include her. She's got to grieve that picture. I'm trying to understand just as a guy. I'll let John talk in a minute.

So your mother-in-law's series of offenses are that she's a jerk. Yeah. Has she done something other than just been a jerk to your wife? No, no, like physical harm. I mean, is she just like nasty and kind of mean? Yeah. Snarly. Snarly.

Yeah. nasty and kind of mean. Snarly. Snarly. And I mean, there's a lot of ethical things that have gone on with finances and stuff like that that I don't want to air out. Well, like she stole from your wife? Well, from her father. Okay. She's just a person of no character, right? Yes. Okay.

And so she only will talk to my wife when her boyfriend's out of town, and then when her boyfriend comes back, she doesn't respond to anything. So what's the challenge? Is your wife just struggling with just putting a period at the end of that relationship and moving on? Yeah, it eats her up inside. Yeah. And that's where I'm calling. I'm like, I'm just

trying to, you know, I guess the man to me is just like, well, you know, so long. And for her, it's harder, and I'm just trying to figure out. like well you know so long and for her it's harder and i'm just trying to figure out yeah it's her mom yeah it's her mom yeah you got to honor that don't go don't get in the trap of talking bad about her mom getting a trap of supporting her and loving her at some point she's gonna have to make the decision she's gonna have to put a period at the end of that sentence her mom's never gonna do it with her because if she would you wouldn't be in the situation the first place so your wife's going to have to decide

to grieve this loss and then start creating a new picture that's going to include her baby you and whoever else but not mom and your wife's going to do that on her own terms in her own time and that's frustrating and annoying if you're a husband who loves his wife and doesn't want to see her hurt but anytime there's a separation from a mom like this it's just going to be hurt yeah it's going to be hard especially so. Especially with a nine-year-old. Definitely a lot. Let me throw out something. The secret to happiness

is low expectations. Yeah. And so, if her mother had a, I'll just make up something, I don't know, something where, let's say she had alzheimer's

okay and when people get alzheimer's they generally either become much nicer than they used to be or much meaner than they used to be um my mother-in-law got alzheimer's and bless her soul she got nicer and um uh and kept feeding the dog until the dog got fed fat i mean it was reduced it was almost humorous and so because she forgets she fed the dog until the dog got fat. I mean, it was almost humorous. Because she forgets she fed the dog. So if you had someone like that, you would not – we never looked at Sharon's mom when she was going through that and said, we lowered our expectations of her because she was deficit. Does that make sense? Yeah. No, that makes sense.

I mean, my expectations, I don't think it's any lower. Yeah, and I think your wife still has high mom expectations of a woman who can't deliver. Yeah. And so if she lowered her expectations and just said, pretend like mom has Alzheimer's and she's a little nutty, because she's a little nutty, dude. The woman you just described is like Oscar the Grouch. And she's really not got her crap together mentally this woman doesn't but i can see the challenge between someone with alzheimer's and saying this person's got i know but i'm saying

if you if you if you're i'm talking about his wife if she said instead of hoping mom is going to be all super mom she's never going to be i know instead said let's treat her as if she's deficit because she is gotcha if you and you just go oh that's just my crazy mother this is just who mother this is just my crazy mother that's just my crazy mother you know i mean and then you don't then you don't get all tore up about it because she the reason the girl's getting all tore up about it she keeps thinking mom's gonna come through she's got she's got this picture am i wrong um yeah but i think i think that i think that that having lower expectations isn't gonna make her feel good she's still gonna have to be she's still gonna have to grieve that thing that mom's never gonna come through like that i don't

disagree with that yeah but i'm saying if every one of these conversations it's like oh mom did it again well what did you expect? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If the rattlesnake's going to bite you, right? That's it. The stinking snake bites, so don't be. When they start, you know, when that little tail starts wiggling and making that little noise, you just get back, you know?

Caleb, let me ask you this. Are you in a place, have you all backed yourselves into a corner with an either or that was a little bit over the top? Or do you feel good about it? And I'll ask you this. I know a lot of first-time parents who make these big declarations. You can't come into my home unless you've showered in Lysol and washed your hands. And by third kid, you know, the kid's walking in with a handful of dog dew, and then nobody cares, right?

Have you all first kidded this situation where you've made these declarations? Yeah, and I don't know my mindset is if you have to hide seeing my son then why like why why are we going to be around that type of person i don't disagree with you yeah well yeah it's the bottom line is there's a lot of heartbreak for your wife it's very hard for her um crazy mom's just gonna be crazy yeah you're looking at it very like ah that's what it is and it's her mom you can't take that loose yeah that there's still that umbilical cord in the spiritual world be gentle with your grieving man i'll send you a copy of henry cloud's book the called boundaries he's a friend of john's and mine and it's a world-class book on this subject hold on i'll send you a copy of it.

You've got a lot on your plate. A job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. That's chministries.org slash budget. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today. Have you ever made a dumb decision with zeros on the end because you didn't do your research? Yeah, me too.

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to 33 789. 33 789. Megan is with us in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Megan. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. How can we help? I guess I just don't know where to start. My husband and I just got married in January. Congratulations. We're renting. Thank you. We're renting.

I just started a new job last September. I'm a lawyer lawyer and he just switched jobs working for a big steel company. Now he works for my parent's company and I'm three figures in student debt combined with his. We have about 10,000 in credit card debt, probably 30,000 debt in cars. And like I said, we rent and we're kind of at our breaking point um I have like $200 on our checking account and we just don't know where to what to even do what is the actual balance on the student loans I'd say about 175 okay and uh what are you making? I make $75,000. What's he making? $50,000.

Okay, so we have $125,000 to attack this with. All right. Well, the great news is you have a good degree. The bad news is you paid a lot for it, and you're deeply in debt because of it. So you're going to be shoveling a while yeah and that's and so and that's hard because i know that that's i know that a lot of that is me um i'd say i've got about 150 and he's got about 25 so together about 175 tell me about the cars are they two 15s or a 20 and a 10 or what um One's a 2016 F-150 and one's a 2015 Acura. We're upside down in the F-150.

So what are they worth each? Or what do you owe on each of them? I owe 25 on the F-150 and we owe 10 on the Acura. Okay. You need to sell the F-150? Yes. It's ridiculous. What need to sell the F-150? Yes. It's ridiculous. What if we're upside down in it?

I don't care. You're going to have to borrow the money to cover the difference or scrape up the money to cover the difference. So you owe $25,000 on it. What do you think it's worth? Maybe $20,000, maybe $19,000. It's got 175,000 miles. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, $5,000 miles. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, 5,000 bucks gets you out of that thing, and you need to get a beater car to drive because you have $175,000 worth of debt to clean up. You don't need a $25,000 pickup. Okay. It's out of control. I mean, you have a $600 truck payment. No, it's $645 a month. It's crazy.

Almost like I've done this before. Yeah. What kind of law are you practicing? Civil defense. So defending companies that have been sued. And, you know, going back to the student loans, I guess I have the option in the future to go work for the government. And I know that. No.

No. Okay. You need to just keep working there and go double your income in the next four years. Yeah. And I know that that's coming because I make $75,000 now. I'm sure that a raise or a bonus or something is going to work. I think you'll be making $100,000 pretty quick and $100,500 pretty quick after that if you keep on a standard track for an attorney and you have a decent firm

and all that kind of thing. And hopefully your husband's income will continue to go up as well so here's what you've signed up for you need to get into a beater car and get rid of the pickup and then you're going to get on a written game plan a detailed game plan called a budget and you're going to live on nothing and just clean this mess up and it's going to take a while two hundred thousand,000. If you do $50,000 a year, that's going to be four years. If you do $75,000 a year, it's going to be three years. And that means every big bump you get or every bonus you get. It means you're not going out to eat, you're not going on vacation, and you're not buying a house.

You're broke. Yeah. And listen, I spent years working with lawyers. I love them. And they will look at your car in the parking lot and then look at you with that disdain that, what did you do all this for if that's what you're driving? And they're going to ask you why you're renting. They're going to ask you, man, you got a mess to clean up.

Well, I'll be honest with you. The reason why I called in today was because that's literally the question I've been asking myself for the past month. Like, why did I go to school this long? Like, why did I take out all this money? Because you're going to make $100,500 three years from now. Yeah. And besides that, you can't unring the bell. It's there. So let's just deal with it.

Yeah. Asking backwards questions gets you nowhere. I wouldn't have signed you up for it, but you're signed up. Yeah. So now it's about, hey, what are we going to do to get even? And then, yeah, when you and your husband, when he's making great money, you're making $150,000, and you've made partner, if that's even what you choose to continue to do, you owe nobody any money.

That stacks up real, real, real fast. So I want you to think about $75,000 a year on debt, which means you're going to take all the OT. He's going to take all the OT. You're going to do anything you can to create income, and you are going to spend nothing. That's going to be very hard this year. Next year, your incomes will go up.

It'll be easier. And the next year, your incomes will go up again. It's going to be even easier. But that's that'll get you out in three years you'll be a hundred percent debt free in three years if you do that and you passed the bar exam so i know you can figure out a way to do this yes i did um so you think selling the truck first that's the first order of business no we're gonna do it all at once we're gonna get on a budget live on nothing and sell the truck. Okay.

But list your debts, smallest to largest. Cut the credit cards up. They've not been a blessing. No. Time to chop them. Time for plastic surgery. Okay. And he's going to feel like a dingbat driving up to his construction sites in a 2014 Camry, and y'all are both in it, right?

You're both in it. You're in it to win it now. You don't care what other people think because other people are broke, and you're going to do it. So, Megan, do you think this will work? Yeah, I think it'll work. I think we've just got to do it. All right, I'm going to help you do it then. I want you to go through our class.

It's called Financial Peace University. It's inside of a membership called Ramsey Plus. I'm going to pay for do it then. I want you to go through our class. It's called Financial Peace University. It's inside of a membership called Ramsey Plus. I'm going to pay for it for a year as your wedding gift. Oh, thank you. And the two of you need to sit down tonight and start going through the class. Get one of those coaches in your corner. Get that community in your corner. Get on EveryDollar, the budgeting app.

It all is included. It's all free. I'm giving it all to you it's all free i'm giving it all to you free and i want you to work this because you can do this you can do this but you have a big mountain to climb but i've been to the top of it a bunch of times like a thousand times this week with people and so i can show you the way to the top of that mountain and you're going to make it if you'll do exactly what we tell you to do i can get you out but if you screw around start coming up with your own plan or you water it down or you start whining you're not going to make it but if you roll up your sleeves

and bow into this plow into it you can do it hold on kelly will pick up and we'll get you signed up to go i love it man and you get a lawyer focused on something you better get out of your way yeah i mean because you don't get through law school unless you have a level of determination, perseverance. You can grind and grind and grind for three years. That's what you're asking her to do. Yeah. And they can do it. Yeah, she just finished grinding for three years, now three more.

That's right. And what they're going to do is they're going to get real resourceful. They're going to find new jobs. They're going to find extra jobs. And they're going to knock that thing out. Yeah, it's going to go. It's going to go. She can do it.

Absolutely, she can do it. There's no question about it. I'm positive i and you know the the the interesting thing is you know why she believes she can yeah that's right and uh but i mean if you run the numbers you make a hundred and a quarter now you live on 75 or you spend 75 on debt that leaves you fifty thousand dollars to live on no you're still that's the average household income in America is $59,000. You're doing just fine. That's right.

It's not like we're actually struggling here. No. There's a bunch of taxes coming out of that. And, of course, you're evil rich people, so the current president's going to tax your butt off, it sounds like. But, you know, that's a whole other discussion. But, yeah, you're going to get there. You're going to make it in spite of Washington getting in your way. Go, go, go.

This is The Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Riley is with us in Kansas City. Hi, Riley. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave and Dr. John. It's an honor to speak to you guys. You too. What's up? So, my wife and I got married back in January. Congratulations.

Thank you, sir. We finished up baby step three in March, and we're trying to figure out now whether we should move on to baby step 3B or move into baby step four with the idea of throwing whatever else we can into a savings account for a down payment eventually. Awesome. Good work, man. That's incredible.

So how old are you guys? I am 23, and she is 21. And what's your household income? It's going to be roughly $100,000. So she is still in school. She finishes in May, and she'll. So she is still in school. She finishes in May, and she'll start working full-time in July. Awesome.

What's she going to do? She's an architectural engineer, a lot smarter than me. Well played, man. Well played. Always good to marry up, brother. So what do you do? I work in landscaping. Good.

Very good. Okay. All right. So $100,000 household income. You're in your early 20s, and you're thinking about starting to save for a house. What's the downside? Well, we're not entirely sure when. We know the place that we're living at now, we have a contract through until next July, and we're kind of thinking we'd potentially be in the position to buy a house

maybe next spring, but we're also not sure, so I don't know if we should, you know, save up, and I really wouldn't know how much exactly to save up for at this point, and then start baby step four, or start baby step four and throw whatever we can well you got plenty of time to do either you're very smart very wise very ahead of the game at your age and so you're not calling me up at 62 with this question you're already you're you know you've already you got you got 50 years here to play this out so you're gonna be fine dude you've done well so uh you're gonna get both you're gonna get retirement and you're going to get a house. So it's just a matter of what the order and what the first things are.

So what's the, in my mind, as young as you guys are, I would, you know, how much to put down? I'll give you a hint. The more you put down, the better off you're going to be. You can't put down too much. It's impossible. So just start saving. I mean, why don't you just pile up as much money as you can pile up in the next 12 months? Okay.

And guess what? If you don't want to buy a house then, you still got to be able to pile up money. It's okay. Okay. And then you can start your baby step four. And if you run numbers from, you know, 25 to 65, that 40 years investing 15% of $100,000, that's going to be like $15 million. That's what you're going to have. So my point is if you put this off two years and save for a house

and then start saving for retirement, as long as you do 15% the rest of your life, and that's if you never get a raise, which, by the way, if you work 40 years and never get a raise, you're a loser, okay? So I think you're going to be okay, right? You follow me? I mean, the set of assumptions here is very conservative is my point. Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

You're going to do great. I'd just pile up as much as you can pile up this year. Just make it a game. How much of a down payment can we save? He sounds like a guy that got in a football game, and on the very first pass, he made some good moves and scored a touchdown, and he crossed the line, and the crowd's cheering, and he didn't know what to do with the ball.

He didn't have a dance planned. He doesn't, like, do I just hand it back to the ref? I don't know what to do, man. And it's just celebrate and then go to the next step. Yeah. Right? It's this weird, we're 23, and we are crushing it, and do we? I don't want to the next step. Yeah. Right? It's this weird, we're 23 and we are crushing it. And do we, uh...

I don't want to screw this up. I scored, man. Hey, I scored a touchdown, dude. It's awesome. It's awesome. That's fun. You've done so well, sir. So well.

Monique is with us in Bangor, Maine. Hi, Monique. How are you? Very well. Thank you to Kelly for taking my call today. Sure. If you got by her, your life's good. What's up? That's a good move, Monique.

So I am looking for some guidance from Dave and Dr. Delaney about my will. I have two daughters, one of whom is doing very well financially. She and her husband are in the 1%. And the other daughter earns about $50,000. And for several years, I felt uncomfortable about how to divide up the assets. I'm an everyday millionaire. But more recently, I've gotten to the point where I don't want to give either of them any money. Why?

I feel like I've worked so hard my whole life. I paid for college for them. I've paid over half a million dollars for college for them. And they've turned into socialists. And they just... But they have. Well, you're still in the wrong college yeah monique you're my favorite call maybe in two months i i know we're all laughing no we're with you we're with you i'm depressed i'm very depressed

about where i see my children heading and i think I don't want my money to go to them, and I feel terrible about that. You shouldn't. They're not entitled. They didn't hit the DNA lottery. They're not entitled. My children have been instructed since they were small that in order to get the opportunity to manage the money

that God gave me to manage, meaning that I panned off the responsibility to manage some of the Ramsey fortune to them, they will have to be people of character. Socialists are not people of character. They're parasites. And so if my children are going to be parasites, I'm not going to finance their lives so that they have a reality show. Is there a way to put money in, let's say, a trust where they couldn't get access to it until they were, let's say, 70 years old?

Well, I mean, then they'd just be a 70-year-old socialist, right? Well, but I'm hoping by then they will have kind of woken up. You can. All of our estate is trust-based, and our trust is, we've done it from a faith perspective, not an economics perspective. But if they're not walking with God, they don't get to manage God's money. That's what the trust says. Really? Yep.

In no uncertain terms and so uh you know in your case you could change that lingo and just go you know when you become a capitalist you get the opportunity to manage this money monique here's what i would do i would take some time to distill down beyond the monikers and the labels on atlas shrugged what that's fantastic. Man, I am not usually at a loss for words, and you got me on that one. Monique, here's what I want you to do. I want you to distill down beneath the quote-unquote word socialist. What are the things that they are saying that concerns you,

that you think that you are leaning into, and I want you to have a direct straight conversation about what these things are and then i want you to identify them and like dave said it's your money you can do what you want to with it i i've seen more and more of the last four or five years a lot of semantic shell games and when you say i talk to somebody it's like oh we're way on the same page i just thought this about this about that, right? I think you can say that you are not required morally, ethically, legally, spiritually to leave your money to people that you do not agree with how they live their lives. Period, full stop.

In there, right? So, now, once you've said that, then you can start to have some discussions with them that are very gentle and very life-giving and very kind. And direct. And very kind and very clear. And it's like, okay, you know, I've paid for all this stuff for you, and truthfully, I don't agree with the way you're living your life, and I'm not willing to finance that going forward.

And so it's up to you if you want to do that. I'm not being controlling. I just want to let you know that I'm going to go ahead and do a reading of the will, and you're not going to be in it as long as you're living this way whatever this way is if your kid's a heroin addict you sit down with them and go i'm not funding your heroin but what you did that is unique is you articulated what that meant not you're not vague yeah no no i'm very clear very clear it's unbelievably detailed and it costs twenty five thousand dollars to write the trust you know very clear it's ridiculous yeah the legal field fees on this were amazing. And then we get to have this meeting once a year where we revisit and go,

oh, by the way, remember what we said. If you're going to manage money for God, this is what managing money for God looks like. First, you've got to be walking with him. And we do this kind of stuff. And so we're not mad about it, but we feel a responsibility to not fund heroin addicts or socialists. You know, I mean, Proverbs 9, 9, Instruct the wise, and they will be wiser still. Teach the righteous, and they will be wiser still teach the righteous

and they will add to their learning george patton said accept the challenges so you can feel the exhilaration of victory amen open phones at 888-825-5225 you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today max is i'm sorry mitchell is with us in chattanooga hi mitchell welcome to the dave ramsey show hey john hey dave um quick question i'm in the tail end of baby step two and i have a car lease or a fleece as you would put it. And the turn in is in June. So I'm wondering if I should pause where I'm at on the baby steps.

I have obviously baby step one done, but should I pause baby step two to stack cash toward buying a new or a vehicle after I turn it in and cover any expenses that I would have at the end of that fleece to buy a $2,000 or $3,000 car just enough to have them try to sell me this thing out of finance? Yes. Okay. You're right on.

That's a really brilliant idea. You properly looked into the future and avoided an emergency that really shouldn't have been an emergency because you thought about it six months ahead of time, five months ahead of time. You're going to be able to do this. Well done. Yes, that's exactly what you should do. Right on.

Thank you. Thank you, sir. There is a principle there that Christmas should not be an emergency. They don't move it. It doesn't surprise anybody. This lease is coming up. You know, you're in the fall. You're going to go to school.

These are not new pieces of information and so you know develop some kind of a game plan and that's what he was doing is shuffling you know moving the shell around hiding the p till we find a game plan to figure this out so i don't know how i'm gonna get a car i can't be walking i can't turn this thing in i don't want to finance this thing i don't want to keep it it needs to go away and how am i gonna do that i can't turn this thing in. I don't want to finance this thing. I don't want to keep it. It needs to go away. And how am I going to do that? I can't say, I'm going to stop. Beautifully done. Good critical thinking. But people don't look out past freaking Friday.

I was going to say, I have not read a book on it, and I could probably call a buddy of mine that's got some theory on it, Dave, but you've been doing this for a long time. What is this? Where there is no vision, the people perish. When you don't look out past Friday. Yeah. Yeah. It's the car lease.

It's Christmas. It's you're going to die, have a will. It's that your kid's going to go to some sort of secondary education. I mean, it's everything. One definition of maturity, though, is just the ability to delay pleasure, the ability to look into the future and go, this should not be a surprise. No. The tires wearing out on your car are 100% probability that's going to occur.

An oil change coming up is for sure going to happen. It's 100% probability. And so you shouldn't need, oh, the tires suddenly went out on my car. I mean, you wouldn't believe the number of times I had somebody that the tires suddenly went out on their car, so they traded cars. Max is with us in Seattle. Hey, Max, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Yes, hi, Dave. Hey, John.

So I'm 17. I'm a high school senior right now. And so I'll be a freshman at my state school as a business finance major. And I'll be living with my parents during this time. And so I have a guaranteed full ride for all four years. And this year, after tuition and fees, I'll have about $10,000 leftover scholarships for the first year. And so my question is, what should I do with this leftover money? Should I save it for after college?

Should I invest it or give away part of it? That's my question. Put it in a savings account to keep going to school with. That's right, man. You may want to get an opportunity to study abroad you may get an opportunity to do an internship you gotta something else may fall through and you may need this money right you 100 to be invested in max's education nothing else and i can tell if you're if you're a business finance major has got a full ride that means you're a person who thinks ahead just like we

were just talking about. Don't overthink this. Just put it in a savings account and have it there available for you when you need it because you're going to need it. Here's the math for you, Max. You completing the degree and completing it debt-free is much more valuable, exponentially more mathematically, financially valuable than you can make on a mutual fund. Okay? You put $10,000 in a mutual fund, you make $1,000.

Max is worth a lot more than $1,000 because Max is a freaking bright student. And he's got a degree not in underwater basket weaving coming up or left-handed puppetry. He's got a degree that's very usable in the marketplace. So you finish this degree,

you finish it on time because you keep looking ahead and you make sure you take the freaking classes necessary to graduate on time. It's amazing. It's a whole other story. And you keep this money set there. Now, let's say you go all the way through and you never need the money and the money's still sitting there.

Well, then it's there to help you start your new job with a new apartment in the new city, maybe buy a little bit of a better car or something after you graduate. But you are the secret sauce in this equation. You are worth more finishing this degree than any mutual fund will ever pay you. I'm ashamed to say this, Dave, because I'd never done the lost sunk cost math here. But I was sitting with a group of folks in a think tank working through how do we lower the cost of higher education, and there's a million different options on the table,

and one of them was get out early because you don't do the math not only on the cost of this education but on the lost cost of unearned wages. I went to the University of Tennessee with my oldest daughter, the first one to go to college. I'm sitting in the freaking freshman orientation. And they go, well, 57% or 52% or whatever it is, graduation rate. And of the ones that graduate, only 25% do it in four years.

Oh, yeah. That 50% is on a six-year graduation rate right and so yeah and so i reach over on her notes and wrote in big letters have a freaking plan i mean when i was in school they gave us a catalog i'm sure it's on digital now but you look and you go these are the classes i need to take and they are all offered during the four-year period. You can't schedule that. How do you qualify for a college degree? But, Dave, I don't want to get up. So lame.

I don't want to get up before 11 a.m. Eight o'clock classes bother me because my beer pong gets interrupted at 11 p.m. the night before. You're giving me a hard time here, man. I get to the gym by 4 p.m., so I don't want to take any afternoon. Don't get me started. By the way, that extra year costs money. That's what I'm saying. You can take a full load, not even a full load, and graduate in four years.

But it costs 25 grand. I mean, on what? 100% of the degree fields. It costs 25 grand, let's say, and that's on the low end. But if you were going to go make 45 grand at a job, it costs you that too because you're not working right there's a there's a cost on top of that that's true and that's where when i thought oh my gosh it's this it's the tuition plus the fact that this five-year plan i mean i'm sorry if you graduate in five years you can be pissed at me if you want but i every all three of my children graduated in four

years because i said 100 of the money stops at the four-year mark, and I'm going to kick your little college butt. I mean, unbelievable. Just have a plan. You could go to high school now and do dual credit courses. There's so many options you can take. You can get done with five years with a master's degree now. I worked 40 to 60 hours a week when I was in school and graduated graduated in four years so cry me a freaking river get done seriously get her done you know

why i graduated four years because i didn't have the money to keep going i didn't want to keep going i wanted to get out and make money right you know it's like i was so broke i couldn't breathe getting through i didn't want to live that life anymore it was not a it was it wasn't party central no not living on my daddy's frat and my daddy's frat and my daddy's frat paying the bill it's not unbelievable man it's unbelievable so you got you gotta go to school so higher education you know you can blame these universities if you want or you can blame your lazy butt for not following the dadgum syllabus well nowadays you could 30 to 60 hours in high school for free. Yeah.

A community college for free. Right. And then roll in and be out in 18 months or 24 months if you want to. And then hit the workforce and get ready to rock and roll. So you get a four-year degree effectively in two years. The number of students coming in with 30 to 60 hours, it was impacting the college bottom line because kids were taking the classes in their high schools for free.

AP classes. That's right. Or just dual credit courses. Oh, the dual credit AP and they- You can figure out- And or clap out, right? But it goes all the way back to what we were talking a minute ago. Just the number of parents I would talk to over the years, good people that just suddenly

went, oh, my kid's a senior. Well, they got to go to college next year. Yeah. Like it's a surprise. Like they just showed up. That's right. Christmas is in december that's that's such a great line don't move it christmas is in december good show john good job

james childs kelly in the booth well done i am dave ramsey your host we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Child, producer of The Ramsey Show. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll see you next time.