The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Find a Career After the Military? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 6, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. My co-host this day on the Dave Ramsey Show is Ramsey personality number one best-selling author and nationally syndicated radio host, Ken Coleman. Welcome back, Ken. Always good to be with you, Dave.

I'm warmed up. Two hours of The Ken Coleman Show in the books. I'm stretched and ready to go. Okay. Let's go straight to Austin in Kuwait. Austin, how are you? I'm fantastic, Dave. It's great to finally talk to you.

How are you? You too, sir. Everything's great here, man. So what are you doing in Kuwait? Military? Yes, I'm active duty Marine Corps. I got two more years. Well, thank you for your service.

Yes, sir. How can we help today? Thank you, sir. Okay, so first I'd like to start off and say that I really appreciate you because I found your show about three years ago and I'm 5k away from being completely out of the debt because of you. Cool. So my question, um,

so I got two more years active duty and I'm, I'm really interested in doing what you do. Um, so my question is what kind of degree or what kind of job should I shoot for once I get out to do similar things to what you do? Radio or speak or coaching, what part of what I do? You know, like coaching people to get financially successful. Okay, cool. Well, it certainly does not require a certification or a degree. What you'd have to have is more knowledge than the person you're coaching.

It's pretty much true. Absolutely. And so let's get ahead of that. And so there's not a lot of curriculum out there for helping people that are struggling with money. There's a lot of curriculum for helping people that are wealthy. And, you know, investment advice, and you can go and get your CFP, your Certified Financial Planning designation. We have a thing where we train coaches to, you know, to do it as a ministry, to coach as a ministry in their church and help families or individuals that are struggling. Or some of them go on and actually make that a career and are a part of our network that we refer people to. And so you could investigate that part of it.

Ken, as far as steps after the military, what should he do? Well, I think you have to first identify, like Dave said, which side you want to go to. You want to be more of a financial coach where that's an entrepreneurial venture. That's one client at a time. You've got to build it. And as Dave said, our financial coach master training program will not only teach you how to be a great coach, but will help you grow your business. So that's one option. The other option is do you want to get into, obviously, investing, so helping people like our SmartVestor Pros.

Once you determine which of those two things you want to do, is it a combination of both or is it just one of those things, that's what you have to get clear on. Then it's all about getting qualified. And so, as Dave said, one is going to require more qualifications in the form of some type of education. It doesn't mean a four-year school, but what does it take to actually get there? What's going to get you the ticket to the dance? And so you're focusing on that now. As you're getting out of debt, you're also looking at what is the path that I want to take? And from that standpoint, once you get really clear on that, then you start to walk that out now so that as you get out of

the military, now you're not trying to get caught up and get qualified. You're taking those steps as you can while still in the military. And I would tell you, Dave, the advice I give anybody like this is clarify and verify. So let's talk to some financial coaches. You know, get online, find people who are doing it successfully. Not the person, you know, like you say, the shop teacher without any fingers. Don't want to talk to him about building anything. Right.

But the idea here is, is we want to talk to successful people who are winning and ask them, what do you love most about your day? Is there a part of your day you don't like? How did you get there? How did you build the business? Which way did you go? These things are super important. And as you're clarifying, it's like doing a college research paper on somebody,

your heart will begin to verify if that's the work you actually want to do. And that's how you get real clarity. Yeah. The way that I ended up starting this, Austin, is not necessarily the path you would want to take, but you might take a page out of that book. I started just coaching families at my church, and I had gone broke, and I had learned these principles from Scripture, and I was applying them in my own life and the pastor said hey can you help this guy who's in foreclosure I'm like yep I used to buy foreclosures then I was one so I can help him and so I sat down with them helped them get their home saved and you know negotiate with the mortgage company and it was all volunteer there was no

money involved and there's no certification involved of any kind actually no training involved I just stepped in and started doing it. From my life experiences, I was able to do that. Then that evolved from there to where someone started paying me to do that over time. So you could, while you're in this last two years, work with the chaplaincy. A lot of the chaplains teach Financial Peace University and Ramsey Plus now, and you could work with the chaplain so you get a financial peace class going and just coach those guys and gals in the class.

That's absolutely step one. And you could do the financial coach master training online, which it's online. So you can do the first steps of that. And that way you could kind of get your foot in the water while you're still a marine yeah you're trying it out i guess you're always a marine but while you're still active duty marine but um but the uh and you know then you could say well i don't think i really want to do this before you actually ran out of your contract with the military uh there's a lot of ways you could serve the the men and women right around you on a voluntary basis right now. It wouldn't be a paid gig, but again, you work with your chaplaincy there.

I'm sure they're probably already teaching financial peace. We teach it to hundreds of thousands of military worldwide every year. So, hey, again, thank you for your service, and if we can help you, sir, anytime, you let us know. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Will is in New Hampshire. Hey, Will, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you, Dave, for taking my call.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, I'm on baby step two, and I found you last year. I was like half a million dollars worth of debt. And I'm glad I found you before my daughter is going to college. I advised her that she was going into community college because we had no money. Well, her dreams went down when I said that to her.

Basically, my question is, she's working two jobs right now through the summer, saving money for the community college that is already paid through scholarship for two years but then she has to transfer to a university to finish what she wants to do um she's have about five thousand dollars saved working on it and her and i had a fight the other day because out of her paycheck i I only let her keep 50 bucks, and she said it's not fair. I don't know if I've been too strong on her out of her paycheck because she doesn't pay gas, she doesn't pay electric, she doesn't pay insurance for the car. I cover everything so that way when she works, she gives me her paycheck and I give her 50 bucks. And it all

goes into her savings for her education? Yes, sir. Okay. What happened is she doesn't have any dignity because she's not participated in the decision. I think what you're doing is correct. How you're doing it is wrong. And that means that you need to sell her the dream that you have for her. And when she adopts the dream that you have for her, which is a good dream, you're doing it well, then she will voluntarily want to do that.

Because if you want to go to school and you want to finish, this is how we're going to do it. And I'm going to help you. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. families all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs whether they're anticipated or completely unexpected. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had another expensive medical issue come up. They could have faced a huge financial setback. But thanks to Christian Health Care Ministries, the Olcheskis were spared from a ton of medical

bills. As members of CHM, they're part of a group of believers who financially and spiritually Thank you. nearly $97,000 to help the Olcheskis. To be a part of Christian Healthcare Ministries, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show on Radio XM and on a well-listened-to, well-traveled podcast is with me as my co-host today here on the air. So, Ken, according to this article at Yahoo Finance, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York reported Thursday that the COVID-19 pandemic had led to paydowns of household debt

in the second quarter of 2020, leading to the first quarter-over-quarter decline since 2014. The New York Fed's consumer credit panel, which uses national data from Equifax, shows the total household debt fell by $34 billion to $14.27 trillion as of June 30th. The most notable decline in consumer debt came from credit card spending, where balances fell $76 billion in the second quarter, the steepest decline in the history of the New York Fed's data. Auto and student loan balances were roughly flat. The data shows signs of caution over consumer spending.

Well, no kidding. Mortgage balances, however, continued to rise and added $63 billion. So basically we got student loans flat. We got, and to the extent that this particular region of the Fed is indicative of everything else, we don't know about that for sure, but it makes sense. It makes sense. So credit card debt's down. Student loan debt's flat.

Mortgages are up because people are buying houses still, and auto loans are basically flat, or auto debt is flat. So what it amounts to is that people weren't going to restaurants, and they weren't traveling, and they weren't using their credit cards, and they paid them down because they were scared. That's right. Some good news, though, in June we saw consumer spending rise by 5.6%. So that speaks to some confidence. And the delinquency rates on mortgages ticked down as well.

And that's in the freaking New York region. That's right. So this is a great article to share because you hear all the doom and gloom. And if you're watching news or you're reading news, a lot of clickbait out there, a lot of stories designed to get your head to turn. These are real economic numbers. And that would at least suggest that better days are ahead. You and I have believed that all the Ramsey personalities. We've said that our message of hope, we're saying that this is a storm, storms pass. There's some good news here. And there is there's hope that some people are saying, you know what, never again.

And that's what we're seeing, and I'm encouraged. I think as time moves on, we're going to see business owners start to help beat the drum a little bit to say, you know what, if we're going to survive, if we're going to thrive, we're going to have to figure out how to work, and people want to work. And so I'm still in a place of optimism even though the news isn't always positive i'm optimistic yeah the um i think one of the things that's uh negative not not out of this article but overall is um the uh the same place in your brain the same chemical reaction in your brain that causes someone to become addictive to pornography causes them to become addicted to fear. Mm-hmm. And some of these news channels have basically been putting out fear porn for about four months now.

And they've gotten record ratings off of it. It's working for them. And they found a news story occasionally to move on from it, but they go right back to fear it. It's working for them. And they found a news story occasionally to move on from it, but they go right back to fear porn because it's working for them. And some of you have watched the news so much that you've become addicted to fear. And you spend your whole life just trembling. And what happens when you do that is you lose your critical thinking skills. So you no longer have the ability to look at mask data or social distancing data or

death rates with a clear mind. You know, you no longer can look at the inconsistencies in the testing processes with a clear mind and come to a reasonable common sense conclusion instead you your your octaves go up because your throat is tight and you screech at someone in the grocery store yeah because you're addicted to fear you've been you've gotten hooked on fear porn and uh so nothing that no one can reason with you because you've lost your freaking mind yeah those. Those people are seeing a threat everywhere. They're seeing a threat everywhere. You know, it's interesting you talk about the part of the brain.

You can look this up, Google lizard brain, and that's become kind of the common man description of that part of our brain. But it really does protect us. The brain is designed to protect us, and it's called fight or flight. And so what Dave's talking talking about folks is is absolutely backed up from neuroscience that when we get so focused on fear we have our brain will put us into one or two places and we get to choose most people dave as you're saying are choosing flight i'm afraid i'm gonna contract everything in my life i'm not gonna go anywhere i'm not gonna do anything i'm gonna freak out and i'm gonna get in this bunker and i'm not going to go anywhere. I'm not going to do anything. I'm going to freak out, and I'm going to get in this bunker mentality. And I'm going to be mad at

anybody who doesn't do what I do. That's the issue. Or what if we choose the fight mechanism and say, you know what? Look, this is out of our control. A lot of this is out of our control. But what can I control? Well, I can control what I focus on. I can find good stories that aren't just kumbaya, cotton candy. I'm talking some of the data we've given you here. The jobs numbers, new job numbers came out today. Less job unemployment than they predicted. I look at that and I go, that's optimistic.

You know, we've got to... Not exactly a checkmark. It's not. It didn't just bounce back. It didn't bounce back. And the reason it didn't was we've continued with some of the draconian policies. That's right. But we also got small businessmen and women that are fighting to save their business,

fighting to save your job. We've got entrepreneurs that are fighting to come up with new business models and new consumer products that are coming out of these times. The point is, we've got to choose to say say i'm not going to let this circumstance a pandemic and everybody else's reaction to it color my perspective and thus my actions i think it's well said we've got to be careful what we consume yeah fear porn if you consume fear all the time that's all you see is an attack around every corner yeah and you you become subject to it you're now absolutely and you can see people's

eyes oh yeah they're skulking around you know oh where's the boogeyman all the time as opposed to going look this is a tough time america's been through tough times before other countries been through tough times and what have we seen the human spirit if it decides to fight and to and to say all right we're going to overcome this and adapt, then good things can happen. And I am very optimistic. I just trust business people, man. If we can just get the government out of business, I feel real good about you, the people. I do.

Well, because, you know, this idea that somehow business people are out to harm their employees is absolutely asinine. It's garbage. That's asinine. Yeah. They can't do what they want to do. We do that on purpose. We spend so much money acquiring team members. The amount of money I spend recruiting and getting people here and then turn around and kill them, that's asinine.

Well, you've said a hundred times, we can't get to the vision that we have for Ramsey Solutions as it continues to evolve and grow without people. Yeah. So we turned off our hiring for 60 days because we were conserving cash to make sure we were going to turn the corner and survive. We've you know, we've stabilized our revenues now. We've pivoted and pivoted until I'm sick of the word. And and so we're back in full hire mode now and we'll hire 200 people by the end of the year, probably.

And so, you know, can you I was talking with a guy last night in business. And can you imagine being in the plexiglass business right now? Oh, my goodness. They can't hire enough people. They can't keep it. It's like everywhere. Everybody's got a piece of glass up somewhere. And, you know, every cash register suddenly has this.

It is absolutely – I mean, it'd be like being in the mask production business. How about all those toilet paper executives right now and the paper towel people? They are living good right now after all the collective freak out in America three months ago. You couldn't find toilet paper. If you tried, you couldn't find it. The great toilet paper shortage of the spring of 2020. Well, I mean, it's crazy. I mean, there's opportunity everywhere.

Gosh, we just have to infect people. I know you're going to get on that word, but I chose it on purpose. We've got to infect people. Fear is more contagious than this virus. But we have got to infect people with some optimism and say, you know what? This virus is highly contagious, by the way. Oh, I know. But the fear is more.

Fear is way more. And by the way, I'm going to say this. The fear and the fallout of this virus and the draconian leadership measures will have harmed more people than the actual virus when this is all said and done. Always. Definitely. By a long shot. All kinds of data already showing that. All kinds of data already showing that.

The good news is they didn't run up their debt credit cards. That's the data. That's good. We still got work to do, though. Yeah. There's still $76 billion in just credit cards. Me and you, we're going to be okay. Me and Jenny Craig got a lot of work to do.

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Always use the magic word to get the discounts, Ramsey. That's the promo code, Ramsey. So, Ken Coleman is my co-host on the air today, Ramsey Personality. Ken, our question. Yes, Emily writes in from Georgia. So Ken Coleman is my co-host on the air today, Ramsey Personality. Ken, our question. Yes. Emily writes in from Georgia. She says, I'm interested in pursuing a career in copywriting, and an educational course that I'm looking at is $2,000. Are these types of courses a wise investment to kickstart a fledgling career, or are they a waste of money?

Yes. Yes and yes. It depends. Let me explain that second yes. I think it's absolutely a great idea for you to take a reputable course, that being the operating word here. We want to do our research and get enough evidence, a lot of evidence, all right, that says this is a legitimate course that can make me a better copywriter and get me started. But be very careful of scams that are really bad products. In that market, for sure. In that market, for sure, that can promise you you're going to be a great copywriter. And again, my advice here is,

let's talk to some people who are copywriters. If you can't talk to them in your community, if you can't find somebody, they are are online get some real advice from somebody who is a professional copywriter not difficult to do if you were if you were you know somebody's 10 years in if you were me getting started what class would you take yeah that's right and uh you know call around talk to somebody even if they're stranger just get them on the phone and just just randomly bother them but if you can get somebody that actually knows a friend of a friend say hey george told me you're a copywriter would you mind answering one question for me that's right you know uh you know if you were if you were just starting your career which class would you take and they're going to go don't take

that one also there are a lot of college two thousand dollars scares me that makes me think scam yeah i would be concerned about that as well shouldn't be that much yeah i mean a couple of hundred bucks for a an audit a class at a community college and get started and start learning to put words together in a way typically copywriting um there's a couple of different things you could do i mean technical writing certainly but copywriting generally means you're selling something and so you have to you have to develop your sales skills as well and you're communicating persuasively your message your branding message and so anything where you're studying branding and you're studying sales and you're studying the word flow that causes that to happen is going to assist you in that process. Valerie is with us.

Valerie is in San Diego. Hi, Valerie. How are you? Hi, I'm great. How are you guys? Great. How can we help? Yeah, so I am currently a naturopathic medical student.

I'm 31, and I'm starting my second year at five. I'm currently $174,000 in debt. Part of that includes 20K from my car and some from an MBA, and then 82 from my first year of school. I have four more years left and I desire to be a wife and a mom one day as well. And part of my concern is once I finish school, the potential of what I'll make after the average graduating ND makes about 90K. But there is a potential to make up to 300 and 400. And I know people doing that. But I'm concerned if I would be taking that into a future marriage. And I also own a marketing

company. So I do have potential to make money building websites. So I just want to get your thoughts on all of that. I think the first question has to be, what is it that you want to do? If these money issues weren't at the forefront, and I understand why they are. But I mean, you've gone like 14 different directions. You've got an MBA, you've got a marketing company, now you're in med school. What is it? You've got to figure out what you want to do. Then we figure out the path and how this is all going to play out.

So what is it that you want to do? So I went into it wanting to change medicine. And I was going to do that by exploring the business side, learning more about the health, like the business side of healthcare, which I did, and now going into the ND naturopathic side. I see a potential potentially in politics in the future but I kind of just feel like there's a lot going on. I also desire to be in ministry and healing.

Okay, so here's the thing. There's a lot. Yeah, we got a lot and that's not a bad thing but that's going to create a lot of... Do you also work on cars? What? Dave, he's being sarcastic. You do everything. You're amazing.

Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it's okay to have a lot of desires, but we've got to start to rank these things because I'm a firm believer that if I made you choose, that there's one that's higher up the ladder as it relates to your heart. So if we guaranteed success in all of these things, which is the one thing that if you could only choose one that you would choose? Yeah, like how old are you right now? 31.

Okay, so let's just picture the 51-year-old version of you, smiling, deeply satisfied, really fulfilled. What is that woman doing? A wife, a mom, and then also in ministry doing something in healing, like being with a pastor or something like that. But I think I did the medical side to really just, I love healing and I thought that that would be a great route. But as I'm getting deeper into it and seeing the reality of the debt, I think that's kind of scaring me. Well, it's not just that either. Let's go to the positive side of that answer. I think you have to listen to that.

You want to be in ministry. You want to be a wife. You want to be a mom. And you want to minister to people in the same area that you've been looking at the medicine side. So I think your heart has revealed that it is ministry, not medicine. Now, the medicine side plays a part in the ministry aspect. But you've just been kicking the tires, and you've been testing some things, but you've gotten yourself in a situation where it's been a real expensive test.

But that doesn't mean that you can't go, whoa. And I think you've got to start to make some decisions that will allow the 51-year-old Valerie to be sitting there going, what a journey this has been, and I'm not even close to done. I'm now about momentum and maximum potential. Valerie, you are heart and soul, and you are – I'm hearing you real clearly. You love and you hurt with people and you wanted to go into medicine to do that you wanted to go into the healing arts you didn't want to go into the medical industry and if you go 250 000 in debt you're about to go into the medical industry

because you have no choices except go be a 80 hour a week md and to get the crap you made the mess you made cleaned up. You're going to have to go make $300K, and that's going to be industry. That's not going to be hard. Exactly. So let me just add one last piece to this. I think you need to stay in this marketing company that you have, work that you're pretty good at, okay?

Because that'll give us, if we just do what we're good at, that'll get us some success. But as you're getting stable, get out of this debt, press stop. We're going to get out of this thing like Dave said. And now we begin to take steps for what would be the training and the qualification and the learning that I would need to eventually be doing the more ministry side of the healing. As Dave said, the healing arts. And you prepare for that over the long haul. And you get yourself financially secure. The man comes in your life. You start the family. And that over the long haul, and you get yourself financially secure, the man comes in your life, you start the family,

and that's the future. But you've got to start taking those steps now. You've got to follow your heart on this. Are you, you said your ministry's come up several times. Are you connected with a good pastor or a good minister? Yes, I am. Good. Go sit down with them and tell them what you told us

and ask them to pray with you. Okay. And in prayer, get peace about what we have said. We could be wrong, but you need to get a peace about it. Because when I said that to you a minute ago, you had a physical reaction, didn't you? Yeah. So you need to analyze what happened there in prayer and say, Okay, God, when I winced, when Dave got up in my face on that, did why did I do that? OK, God, is it because he was right or because he's just a jerk or was it because is it because he really was reading my mail or maybe it's because it was wrong and you winced because you wanted to go to continue the path you're on so i'm okay being wrong uh but i'm not okay with uh i i think you need to spend some time in prayer

with a good pastor and you guys just talk about this and quitting med school is a huge decision you should not do that willy-nilly off a radio call you should spend some time with people in your life that love you that speak into that decision with you. And then you'll make a wiser call. What we're doing here is trying to give you something to think about. This is not as simple as sell the car. One cautionary tale when you meet with those friends and family, be careful that their advice isn't about what the smart decision is because you've already invested.

You've still got to follow your heart on this. What's God saying? That's the issue. That's what you're looking for. What's God saying? This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If you haven't heard, there's actually a National Dollar Day.

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Open phones at 888-825-5225 ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host this hour rogers in houston texas hey roger how are you doing great dave how you doing today better than i deserve how can ken and i help well i've listened to your show for a while now and uh i really respect your opinion when it comes to uh parenting advice and i feel like uh my wife and i have kind of backed ourselves into a corner with our daughter i was hoping maybe you could give me a different perspective on how to deal with her okay and what what's going on well she graduated high school a few years ago and decided she was going to go off to college and uh we supported her decision and she moved off and when she came back

through some series of unfortunate events um we have a beautiful little granddaughter now and um now we're trying to coach her and i think we're running into that situation where a person has to want to be coached in order for things to kind of take hold if you will so she's uh uh passive or she's rebellious? More on the passive side, I would say. How old is she? She's 21. How old is the baby? She is one.

She will be two next week. Oh, wonderful. That's so wonderful. What are you coaching her to do? What is the specific coaching that she's not receiving? Well, some of the lessons that we had just recently learned in the past few years of, you know, managing money and trying to get your future going together and get some kind of structure underneath you so that you can become self-efficient and move on with your life. Yep.

Is she working? Not currently. Why? Well, we currently have another little one on the way that is slated to be here in the next three or four weeks, actually. She's pregnant with her second? Correct. Okay.

And where's the father for this one? This one is here. They're both living in our house. Correct. Okay. And where's the father for this one? This one is here. They're both living in our house. The agreement was that they would stay here and try to save up some money to get their own place. And they were planning to get buried in August. We had a talk with them last week to see how they were doing, and none of that has come to fruition. Okay. Well, here's the thing. These are kids having kids, and your heart is broken, and you want to be kind to your own kid,

and yet you realize that this is not going anywhere. So my tendency, tempered by my wife, is to move too quickly and too deliberately, and then Sharon adds some soft edges to that, and we usually come into a good balance. We often say our kids turned out because of the fear of their father and the nurturing of their mother so we know this about ourselves and so we're good with that as a matter of fact it works with the grandbabies too we're working the same system with them and uh we have a good guy good cop bad cop routine and it works pretty well but uh grandbabies love papa dave too but papa dave don't play so uh if i tell you do something i don't tell you three times you just freaking do it so uh it's old school it's an integrity thing no is

a complete sentence so anyway this is who you're talking to and asking about this all right and so uh you know and then i have to go okay i gotta be i gotta be, and I need to be kind, and I need to give some space. Obviously, what I think I would do is just sit down and dream with them and say, guys, the way this is all unraveling, it doesn't feel like you're ever going to become somebody. So you need to sit down. You cannot stay here any longer unless we get on a program to help you win at your life. I'm not going to participate in you being a turtle without a shell, useless and passive. And so because I love you too much for that to happen.

So young man, young lady, what are you going to be when you're 30? And how are we going to help you get there? And we call that in its goal setting a desired future. What is your desired future? And then you start asking yourself what has to be true to get to that desired future. And then you can say, okay, now we have laid out a game plan together. I want to be a nurse. I want to be an auto mechanic.

I want to do this. And this is how I'm going to feed these two children and be a nurse. I want to be an auto mechanic. I want to do this, and this is how I'm going to feed these two children and be a good mom and a good dad, okay? Now, I will tell you as your dad who loves you more than life itself that I think there's a couple of things you're going to start doing. Now, you can do whatever you want to, but this is what would happen if it was my house, okay? We're going to put in place a plan and you can stay here until x date as a part of that plan if you are executing on the plan that is your rent you have to pay rent you have to execute the steps in the plan or you have to leave now that means you're going to get married this

weekend and that means that our house we're not doing substance abuse. That means at our house on Sundays we go to church. That means at our house we're going to grow spiritually. We're going to take care of our bodies physically. We're going to start behaving in moral ways. We're going to start doing these things. It's not shaming someone. These are the elements that will cause you to win when you're 30, and I'm going to help you get there. If you refuse to take those steps, then it is immediately an eviction notice for you. Because I love you and I will not participate in you losing. I will only participate in you winning. I don't know, Ken.

Well, I think Dave's giving you a really good path on boundaries. I would add to this that as a father and your wife is the mother, you need to stop getting out of the motivation game. You're trying to motivate them, and you cannot motivate another person. I won't put a situation in place where they need to do it. Well, yes, but Dave's right. I'm going to give you one thing I think I would add to that. I think you have to have a sit-down with both of them. I'd start with your daughter because she's your daughter. And I would get into what's causing her to act the way she is.

And what I mean by that is motivation. So there's a motive behind everything. It's called intrinsic motivation. And I would just simply say this. She has got to see, along with Dave's plan and the desired future, she's got to be able to look at what's causing her to stay in the pit that she's in right now. She's created a little bit of a pit, and it's either fear, and so that's motivating her now. And let's get to the optimistic side of what motivates her. And you as her parents, you've known this kid your whole life.

What has driven her when she's been in seasons of life where she's really on fire and active? And I would bring that discussion to the part where Dave said, what's that desired future look like? And if you can help them see that motivation where they begin to see worth and they begin to see a positive future despite some of the missteps, that's going to give you the best chance to combine the boundaries and get some positive movement. Yeah, the essence of this, what I'm saying is where there is no vision, the people perish. That's right. She needs a vision. He needs a vision. They need a vision.

And you're going to help them develop one and make sure they execute to get there. And part of that is within six months, they're gone because they're starting to take the steps to get there. This is the Dave to get there. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. On your smart speaker, you can add our skill by saying, Alexa, open the Ramsey Network skill.

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