The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Find a Good Counselor? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: October 13, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Rental Car Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I am John Deloney. I am here with number one best-selling author, Anthony O'Neill, my good friend and co-host, one of the most positive human beings you could ever be around. Oh, man, you're so kind, John. It's a wonderful day outside. It's beautiful here in Nashville, Tennessee.

And we're looking forward to taking your calls about your life, your relationships, your money, your kids, college, all of it. Anthony, how are we doing? Man, I'm doing great, man. It's a beautiful day here in a beautiful city in the United States of it. Anthony, how are we doing? Man, I'm doing great, man. It's a beautiful day here in a beautiful city in the United States of America. And so I'm just grateful to be able to talk to people about their life, their money, their issues. And just really, man, anytime we get on the show with you, brother, it's going to be an interesting show. Somebody's going to cry by the end of this show. Whether it's the caller or you or me, right?

All right, let's go to Zach out in St. Louis, Missouri. Zach, how are we doing, man? Doing great, guys. Thanks for having me. Big fan of the show. Thank you so much for calling. Yeah, how can we help? Me and my fiance are on Baby Step 2.

We got about $30,000 between the two car loans, $15,000 each, and maybe about $1,000 or $2,000 in credit card debt. She has a Roth IRA, and then she also has a match through work, matches 4%. And then she also has a stock purchase plan, and she has $400 going into that every month. So my question would be, do we stop contributing to the stock purchase plan and use that to pay off the car loans? Or do we take out the money we have in that stock purchase plan? It's a pretty big company. Yeah. About $330 a share.

We have probably about 40 shares. No, Zach. Trying to figure out how to go about that. Yeah, yeah. So there's two things here, Zach, that I really want to walk you through the process and just be 100 with me on the phone. Are y'all two living together right now? Yes. Okay.

Yes, we have a house together, living together, engaged. Going to get married next year. Next year. Okay. All right. All right. So two things. I'm going to give you advice from the angle of just what i would personally do

um and then you can take this and run with it the way you want to run with it all right so i don't believe in until we are married combining our income i'm pretty sure you know i'm gonna say that uh so what i would say is right now uh that you all split that money and you split your bills as far as in your car. So she needs to pay for her car. You need to pay for your car. She needs to pay for her, her bills, her debt. You pay for your bills and your debt when it comes to your investing. No, I want you to stop investing, but I do not want you all to pull these out.

OK, the only time I am okay with you pulling out when it comes to investments are single stocks. Are any of her investments invested into single stocks? Yeah. So her company is the only stock she's in, in the stock purchase plan. Okay. She has $400. She has 400 a month going into UnitedHealthcare stock. Okay. It's at about $330, and it's all going into that, and it's just a single stock. And that's separate from her 401k, though, right? Yep.

Okay, cool. It's a 401k separate from her individual Roth. Yeah, cool, great. So we're going to pause all contributions. All right? We're going to pause all contributions on both sides, your side and her side. I am OK with her cashing out the single stocks and going on ahead and paying off her debt. All right.

Her car, her credit card payments. But let me ask you this question on the flip side. Since y'all are already living together and, you and you know doing stuff together why not just go ahead and get married now and just have a big wedding next year yeah i think that's that's kind of where we're at i think that's a good idea we're we're talking about that we got some stuff go on i was out on injuries from work so we had we kind of put a pause to stuff yeah so i think that's probably the best bet to do that sooner or later i I do too, man. Both of our cars are about the exact same, both about $15,500. Okay, $15,500.

Yeah, that's about where we're at. Are they worth more than a $15,500? Yes, both cars are both probably worth about $22,000. Oh, yeah. And what's your annual income? Mine's about $55,000 and hers is also $55,000. Oh, yeah. So, I mean, literally, about $55,000 and hers is also $55,000. Oh yeah, so I mean literally making $55,000 and I think both of you all,

if she sells her single stocks, stop contributing $400 a month into that. I think y'all can have these cars paid off within the next six months. I'm cool with that. I know some people probably on the YouTube show are saying, oh, go sell it. Well, no. I don't think if you sell it, that's cool because you can make five grand and go buy your cash card. But if that's

your only debt right now, I'm totally cool, John, with them going on ahead and just buckling down and paying that off. But at the end of the day, you know, I got to be true to who I am as an individual. I'm a Christian kingdom man. And I just believe who is a flawed guy. I've made some mistakes in my past, but I do believe that we shouldn't be living together until we're married, you know, and we shouldn't be combining our bills together until we're married. And he sounds like a sharp guy.

She sounds like a sharp young lady. My thing is just go get married. Just go elope. Go down to the courthouse. Get married. It's COVID season right now. Live in a right space together. Start doing things because you're already actingouse. Get married. It's COVID season right now. Live in the right space together. Start doing things because you're already acting like you're married. So go on ahead and get married. And then have a big wedding next year.

Maybe Zach and his fiance can get in their car and drive down here. And Anthony will officiate your wedding out here in front of the Ramsey building, Zach. Make it happen. Get in the van and come on down. Hey, man, listen. I ain't mad at that. I'll do that, too. I ain't fine. That would be fantastic. All right, let's go to Jay in Columbia,

South Carolina. Brother Jay, how are we doing? I'm doing good. How you doing, gentlemen? Outstanding. Good, good. So my question is, I kind of got a two-part question. One kind of piggybacks off the other. So pretty much, that's about my situation. I got about $12,000 saved up in my emergency fund.

I'm 100% debt-free. Got about $29,000 saved up for a home down payment with a goal of $40,000. So I make about $30,000 a year. $1,800 of that a month comes from the part-time job and also serving the military. So I got about $1,200 coming in about nine months out of the year from a housing allowance so my tuition is 100 that free okay 100 free i mean so how much are you making a year again uh jay about 30 000 a year 30 000 a year plus the 1200 for allowance for your living no so that that 30 000 a year is uh includes that's what includes that okay okay okay cool

go ahead sorry about that okay so my question is should i be investing right now That $30,000 a year includes that $20,000. Includes that, okay. Okay, okay, cool. Go ahead. Sorry about that. Okay. So my question is, should I be investing right now? And also, once I reach that goal of $40,000, should I move into becoming a homeowner? Should you be investing right now? While you're in college? While you're in college.

No. Yes, I got about a year and a half left before I graduate. Jay, you are so far ahead, man. You are killing it on every level. You're a veteran. You are having your college paid for. You have no debt. You've got an emergency fund.

Yeah. Got how much money saved up for a house. Excellent job, my man. So you got $11,000 to get to your goal to save up for a house. Young man, sharp man man i like that um that's going to be at least a good 20 to 30 percent of your mortgage payment because if you're living off of thirty thousand dollars a year now your mortgage payment should be real cheap so if you want to go ahead and start investing at your age right now i think that's a good idea bro you can you can invest a hundred dollars and really become a millionaire

motown millionaire before you turn 40 50 years old or you can go can invest a hundred dollars and really become a millionaire motown millionaire before you turn 40 50 years old or you can go on ahead and just pause and just continue stacking this money to go towards your house so it's a yes and a no but you are a sharp young brother you can choose the route you want to go bro so i'm proud of you man keep up the good work this is the day rampant show This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Families all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs, whether they're anticipated or completely unexpected. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas.

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I'm John Deloney with my good friend Anthony O'Neill here, and we are taking your calls about life and about money. Let's go to Carissa in Wilmington, North Carolina. Carissa, good afternoon. How are we doing? Hey, good. Thanks for having me on. I just have a question. My husband and I have been doing the Dave Ramsey plan, and so we snowballed out of debt, and then we have a $10,000 emergency fund.

Congratulations, Carissa. Thank you very much. And we paid off our car, and then we sold it because we have two children and we wanted to get a minivan. And so we ended up getting a 2011 Honda Odyssey for about $12,000. But it's giving us some problems, and especially since we did a cross-country trip from California to North Carolina. We've spent a lot of money on maintenance,

and here it's having some issues still now. And so my husband and I have been having some arguments about, I'm wanting to get a newer vehicle, but not brand new, but newer. And my husband doesn't want to get in any more debt, which is understandable. We're not supposed to, you know, and so I'm just wondering, is it better to just keep this van until it goes completely belly up? Or is there anything, what would your suggestion be? Well, let's walk through be well let's walk through this let's walk through this process carissa because i want i want to i want to understand why you feel the way you feel all right um so how much is the car actually worth uh you mean like the kelly blue book yes

man i i'm sorry i should i should know that i don't have that off the top of my head at the moment and what kind of what kind of issues um is the car giving you okay so um when we first bought it my husband took it to the shop and uh he just wanted to have a just just everything done on it i don't know specifics i know it costs us about you know fifteen hundred dollars to get that done you you know, and then he took it again. It's cost another $800 right before we traveled to North Carolina. And then it broke down, the battery died and there was something else wrong, but something that was very fixable. Are we talking about like a, so now we're talking about rattling. So are we having a rattling issue with the engine, with the transmission?

Do we have major issues with this used car? That's my question because it's a used car. So will the AC go out here and there? Will you have to replace it? Yes. Will the starter maybe go out? Yes. Will the battery go out?

Absolutely. Will you have to replace some tires? Absolutely. But I really want you to step back and think about, Carissa, what's your long term goal for the family? You know, I think that's where you have to really come down to. What's y'all's combined household income right now? I'd say it's about sixty thousand. Sixty K. OK. And you said you are debt free.

Debt free. Yeah. I'm sorry. I take that back. We just bought a house okay you're debt-free excluding excluding a mortgage all right how much do you have in savings right now uh ten thousand dollars um well that's the emergency fund in savings uh i think we have about two thousand and that and then my husband's got his TSPs in the military. So, um, the military's version of the, um, the, uh, 401k retirement point. Yeah. Cool. So great. So here's the thing. I think you need to keep the car. And this is what I say. Uh, talk to your husband and ask him, all right, babe, I'm willing to keep this car. What's the game plan that we can come up with so we can get a newer car and i don't have a problem with you and your husband getting a car that's maybe three years old

so it's so the 2021 cars are starting to come out get you something like an 18 or 17 but you're gonna pay cash for it you know what i'm saying so right now yeah just start saving up right now and let your husband oh hey i want to get a 2017 2018 car with preferably right around 30 to 40 50 000 miles on it and here's the budget and y'all just start saving for that and then get there as quick as you possibly can and let's now i can't really speak into the argument so past not pastor but dr john i want you to talk i want't really speak into the argument. So, Pastor, not Pastor, but Dr. John, I want you to talk into the arguments because we see and we know that the number one arguments in families are over money. How should they be having this conversation without arguing and it's hurting and it's not hurting their relationship? I don't think arguments are inherently bad. I like you.

I think that they are healthy, especially if you've got two people who love each other who are trying to get to the same place. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And, man, Carissa, you've got two young kids. You've got a minivan that's rattling on you when you're driving down the road. Can I tell you about my house right now? Yes.

I've got two kids. My wife's got a 2010 vehicle. i got a 2012 okay okay and i got a 2011 and so uh and dave pays me and anthony pretty well and so it's not it's not been a priority for me i'm gonna continue to repair them they're good cars um you got a honda i got a couple of toyotas they're just gonna keep going down the road, and they're not going to be pretty, and they're not going to sound great. I've got two little kids, and so they are going to accelerate the collapse of the value of my car. And so all I have to say is if it's safe and you can keep putting a battery in it

and changing the shocks here and there and those kind of what I would call low-level maintenance things, you are better off in the long run i love that you your husband and you and your husband got got to the end you you you succeeded and then you leaned up against that boundary to see if it was real and he said i think it's real and you said i'm calling the show i'm glad you called i'm glad you called i know i want you to um like anth said, make peace with the car, make peace with the long term transition of your family into being a debt-free house. And so if you take that off, like the idea that that's even possible off, then it gives you another solution. Like Anthony was really wise. Start saving right now. Start planning right now. That may mean that if you

want to accelerate it, then you're going to get a small part-time job. You're going to figure some stuff out. Your husband's going to work a little bit later. Whatever that looks like for y'all. But you can begin to lean into it a little bit more and to start cranking on it. Now, let me say this, Carissa. If the car breaks down tomorrow, listen, you have every right to use that $10,000 in the savings account to go get a new car. All right? So just hang in there as much as you possibly can. If the engine goes out tomorrow and replacing the engine costs more than the actual car,

you need to go get a new car. That's right. So be wise, but be wise on both sides. If you don't need a car today and you really want something nice, be patient so you can get what you really want. I love it. I love it. All right.

Let's go to Carolyn in Lubbock, Texas. The 806. How are we doing, Carolyn? I'm doing awesome. Blessed and highly favored. Hey. I love it. I love it. All right, let's go to Carolyn in Lubbock, Texas. The 806. How are we doing, Carolyn? I'm doing awesome, blessed, and highly favored. Hey, I like it. How can we help? I'm needing to know if benefits in a job is more important than pay. Are benefits more important than what you actually make on your job?

I'm not going to say they're more important. You know, your income is your number one asset when it comes to building wealth. All right. So it's almost like saying, okay, is it okay for me to make a thousand dollars a year, but I have Grammy a thousand dollars a month and I have great benefits,

or can I make $5,000 a month and I have okay benefits? So talk to me about your situation. Why are you asking this particular question? So we could be a little bit more detailed for you specifically. Sorry, it's very emotional. No, that's okay okay take your time yeah i am 55 16 turned 56 and i want to get out of debt my bad but my mother's 84 and we've been roommates for 16 years who your brother or your mother and your mother okay and i don't want to after i leave my full-time job i don't want to go to another part-time job and leave her there by herself all day. So it's kind of hard to do that. So I'm torn.

So are you in a situation where you have great benefits, but it just doesn't pay very well? Right. I probably bring home around $25,000 a year. But does it pay full benefits? You don't have any expenses on your health insurance side? Only thing I pay out of my pocket is for my vision because I don't have good vision. Okay.

Do you have health issues? Is that something that's a thing? No. I don't need to have any. No. Okay. What I want you to do, we're going to break. I want you to hang on here, we'll circle back

yeah, because me and John, we want to talk to you and dig in a little bit more with this so stay on the line man because I feel something here it always happens with you brother it always happens with Dr. John Deloney and Anthony O'Neill I think, we're going to talk to Kelly about this

I think she'd be setting this up brother no, it's good. People are struggling and they trust you, Anthony. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is John Deloney with my good friend Anthony O'Neill. We are talking with Carolyn in Lubbock, Texas. Yes, ma'am. Sir?

Same thing. My daughter calls me ma'am all the time. It's okay. I'm sorry. No, you're good. That's so funny. She'll mouth off, and I'll say, excuse me, and she'll say, yes, ma'am, and I just roll with it.

It's good. It's good. So you're living with your mom. You've been living with your elderly mom for years. It sounds like y'all are struggling financially. You are sick of this burden of debt that's hanging on your neck and you are wrestling with, do I go get a full-time job and make more money than 25,000 bucks a year, but possibly sacrifice some pretty good benefits in the process? And at the same time, getting a full-time job means I'm going to have to be away from my mom. Is that right?

Yes, sir. So tell me about being away from your mom. Tell me about your relationship with her. You said you've been roommates for a long time. How does that work? We get along great. We do. Growing up, we did not.

I was a daddy's girl. I lost my dad in 2003. But I love my mother. I'd do anything for her, and she means the world to me, and we have become closer. So her health is good, except her vision, but I just know she's not going to be around forever, and I don't want to waste any time away from her. What is your financial situation? Let's see. I have 18 cents in savings and probably about $20 in my pocket to my next paycheck.

And so, Carolyn, I'm going to love it, kid. I'm going to tell you as honest as I can, as truthfully as I can, as though I was sitting with you in your living room right now, okay? Okay. You've reconciled with your mom and you love your mom. Yeah. And you spend as much time as you can with your mom, and you miss your daddy, I can hear it.

Yeah. But you don't have the money to continue to stay at home. Well, I'm actually, I'll pay rent to my brother because he lives next door. And he allows me to pay what I can. As long as it's something.

So your brother owns a house that you're staying in? Yes, sir. Is that a long-term solution? It can be as long as his health is good. There you go. Otherwise, it'll go to his wife, and then I'll have to find something else. That's right. But my car is paid for, and it's paint-peeling off of it, but it runs great.

So here's i i i'm i'm pretending i'm sitting with you in your living room there somewhere off of 50th and indiana and we are sitting in that in your living room and i'm telling you right now um you have worked it out in your head to where this is the right thing and i don't want to i'm not going to be responsible for being the guy that took minutes off the clock between you and your mom because that's how you're choosing to look at this problem. The reality is you're in a tenuous housing situation that is a great deal until it's not. You've got a car that's running. It's not pretty, and that West Texas sun has beat it up, but it's going to be driving until it's not.

And you've got $20 in your pocket until rent is due and so the the reason that you called us is i think you know the math doesn't work in your favor but your heart is somewhere else and what anthony and i do on a regular basis what are what our mentor dave does on a regular basis what all of us do is help people separate the math problem from the heart problem. If you go get a full-time job and you're able to spend less time with your mom, that doesn't mean you love her any less. And that doesn't mean that your relationship that you found in the later years of your life is any less valuable or any less important.

It means you're going to be able to eat after she's gone. Carolyn, if I'm not mistaken, are you working a full-time job now with good benefits and you're scared about getting a part-time job? That is correct. On top of it, correct. Right. And so you're making a, your full-time job right now is paying you $25,000 a year? Yes, sir. Oh, yeah. So, so, so right now the biggest problem that we have is your income problem. Yes, sir, it is. And so right now you have to stay where you are because you can't afford to go anywhere else because of your income problem. That is right.

So what we have to do is step back and we have to now start looking at how can we get our income up? And here's the thing to answer your question from the very beginning. With you saying that you are 100% healthy at your age right now. This is amazing. It's time for you to listen to what John is saying. And I'm saying on top of this is, I feel as if, and correct me if I'm wrong, John, that you care more about your mom and her success and her, her, her health and y'all's relationship than you care about creating a solid foundation for your life correct and i what i want you to do is have the love um have the compassion for your mom but you have to get out and think about carolyn and carolyn needs to get a job that is paying her at least, especially in Texas, you can get away with $40,000.

You need a job with at least paying you $15,000 more a year, get you a nice one bedroom apartment. But really, as you grow up, you can not grow up as in get older. But as far as you grow in your career space, grow in that avenue, you can make more income. So what I'm going to say, Dr. John, is I think that on the emotional side, you're absolutely correct. But on the practical side, she needs to get more income. That's right. And so Carolyn, if you want to stay in your current job, then yeah, it looks like you're talking about getting another part-time job. Yep. Otherwise, you're going to be looking in Lubbock, Texas or the surrounding areas to see if you can make some more money.

And I'm confident that you can, but it's going to be awkward. It's going to be a life change. It's going to be a shift in what you're doing. And Anthony said it right. We've got to put our oxygen mask on first before we are able to take care of the people around us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I am. I'm with you on that one. Carolyn, I heard your heart in the very beginning as far as you really want to pay off your debt. So I want you to stay on the line. Me Not only that, I want to also, because your age bracket, Kelly, let's also give her Retire Inspired by Chris Hogan. So that way she can really start walking that process on how to retire at her age. So stay on the line.

Me and Dr. D, we love you. We're praying for you. But let's focus on those two things, and we're going to walk you through this process. All right, let's go to Lori in Kansas City, Missouri. Lori, how are we doing? Doing great. How are you guys doing? Doing good.

How about yourself, Lori? I'm doing all right. So I have a follow-up question. I was actually lucky enough to speak to both of you earlier and was explaining that no matter what financial goal I achieve, I don't celebrate that. And then I move on to the next task. And Dr. Deloney recommended that I seek help from a counselor. So I actually had two appointments with a counselor and he wasn't any help. I kept asking, he kept asking me, well, what do you want to talk about? And I kept saying, well, I need help with XYZ. And he really just felt like he was just

having a conversation with me instead of trying to help me. So I have set another appointment with a different counselor, um, which will be next Wednesday. So my question is, how do I figure out if this counselor is the right counselor? Am I supposed to be asking questions in the beginning, or should I let the counselor take control of the conversation and ask the questions that they need? You know, I'm not a therapist here or a doctor or a counselor and doctor can come in here and answer that question. But one thing for me, when they ask me a question, I just start talking like I literally just start talking and I just start dumping everything that's on my heart. It's on my mind. What's going through my head? And then from there, I think that gives the counselor, the therapist, the direction we need to go. But if I'm quiet, Dr. D and correct me if I'm wrong, then they're just going to keep asking questions until we open up and really start

projecting onto them what's in our mind, what's in our heart, and what we need help with. That's right. So Lori, stay on. I'm going to give you some tips on how to pick a counselor, how to know if you're in the right one, And then we'll talk through the particulars of the counselor you saw. I'm going to dig in a little bit more on that. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. going back to lori in kansas city missouri talking about how to find a counselor so lori you went to see a, and you met with him a couple of times, and you didn't like the way he responded to your questions. Is that right? Right. And so, when you went in, walk me through what you did when you walked in that room,

and how that interaction went. Technically, it was over the phone. Thanks to COVID, everything has to be over the phone. Right. So so there wasn't any face-to-face body language interaction with him okay um but basically I was saying here's my issues that I know that I have and I would like to know how to address them and he kept on countering back well how do you think we're going to fix that I'm like but I don't know that's why I'm calling you. Okay. So I want to let you know this. I'm trying to say it in a word that doesn't make me sound like a nerd, and that's hard. That's just kind of the way I speak sometimes, and I'm sorry, Anthony.

You're not sorry, but we appreciate the apology. So, Lori, the number one thing, when all the research has been done, the number one thing about helping somebody get better in counseling is the relationship that a client has with their counselor. That's more than whatever modality they're using. That's more than the gender of the counselor. Are they psychoanalytic? Are they CBT, are all these nerd terms.

What is your relationship with the counselor? And so if you walk in or you get on the phone and after one session, two sessions, you're not clicking, you don't feel like they are hearing you, feel free to leave. Feel free to leave. You didn't fail something, and I'm even going to go as far, even though I wouldn't have handled it like this guy did,

I'm not going to say that he failed something. Like Anthony said, there's some folks who walk in and just start talking. They just start talking and talking and talking, and there's other folks that will just sit there and stare at you. In the counseling world, we like to say that everything is data, and the way somebody sits, the way somebody

looks at you, the way they just start talking, the way they don't start talking, all of that is informing the process and it's hard over the phone. COVID just made it different. So it may be Lori that you need to talk to somebody via zoom so you can see them. Yeah. So you can check out their body language, um, and give them a shot. And if it's not good, go to the next one. Yeah. And if it's not good, go to the next one. And if it's not good, go to the next one. You're going to find somebody that you connect with. I would recommend writing down what you hope to accomplish at the end of your session.

So when you walk in or you get on the phone or you look at a Zoom call, ask them, like, what are your skills? What is the way you approach folks? Here's what I'm struggling with. Here's what I've been struggling with. And here's where I'd like to be. And let them talk to you.

And if you don't feel good about it, then say, thank you so much. I didn't feel a great connection here. Or don't call them back. I like to encourage clients to have the courage to tell somebody, hey, I didn't feel a great connection here. So I'm going to try somebody else. But I want to thank you for your time. And that gives you some practice in drawing boundaries. It gives you some practice in having a tiny, hard conversation. And then you move on to the next one. But don't feel like you fail. Don't get beat down on the process. Sometimes, Anthony, folks will

go to counseling and they'll go one time and or they'll go two times and say, that guy's an idiot. I didn't like her. And then they're just done with it don't do that go again the process works the process works but you got to have a good relationship with somebody so laurie i want to i want to challenge you you've got another appointment i want to tell you right now i'm proud of you for making appointment number two with somebody else that's awesome you're investing in yourself and then if it doesn't go well call us back again call us back again. Call us back again. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. I appreciate you so much. All right. Let's go to Daniel in Amarillo. Daniel, how are we doing today? Good. How are you fellas? Doing good, man. How about yourself? Doing wonderful. Doing wonderful. Awesome. So how

can we help Daniel? Okay. So my wife and I are in Baby Step 2. We have just over $73,000 in debt that we're attacking. So obviously we have our $1,000 emergency fund set up, and currently we have a $500 sinking fund for Christmas. My question is we have a blended family. We got married. She has a son. I have a daughter. We're all one big family now. And our son's family on the other side threatened us with court, and we are looking at hiring an attorney to properly represent us, about $5,000 that would

cost. And we're wondering if we should use our emergency fund and the sinking fund and possibly take a small loan from some family members who would be more than happy to help us out. Or just kind of if you guys had any ideas on how to handle the situation financially. Is this a for sure expense? It is not 100%. We had planned on going to court at some point in the future, preferably when we pay off our debt to change the divorce decree and the visitation orders. But at this point, it's more of a preemptive measure. We don't want to be left scrambling to find an attorney, get a lousy attorney, and kind of get banked off on the side.

Are you being sued, or what's the legal issue? No, it's a, to make a long story short, my wife's ex-husband has some issues. Nobody has felt safe with our son around him. Drinking issues, things of that nature. Even his own family, well, they have flipped the script on us and just kind of they threatened to take us to court because we wouldn't allow him to see him. And he's not even there most of the time so the visitation doesn't necessarily

count uh by the decree the order of the decree so when you when you say threaten are they just texting you guys they emailing you have you gotten a demand letter from a lawyer phone calls no we have not gotten a letter from a lawyer okay so are the is the family a part of the the decree uh they are it allows for third party pick up and drop off and that's it their her his family is not in the decree listed specifically they technically have no rights or anything so that so listen so their their vote doesn't count they're gonna bark at you and holler at you and run their mouth at you. I could give two craps what they're going to say to you. Who cares?

Agreed. They're just running their mouth. If you think they're going to sue you and that you're going to need a lawyer, it's going to be like you know you've got a leak on your roof. And so I don't want you to get extra, um, extra heartburn over how hard the issue is. You're going to have to deal with the emotional part of the issue, but the financial part of this is it's an emergency. Like any other thing that drops in your lap, right? Your, your roof caves in, your fireplace falls over. Suddenly you got to go get a lawyer. I know some

extraordinary lawyers in that part of the country. And my guess is you can find somebody for cheaper than 5,000 bucks. You can get somebody on retainer for 500 bucks and let them know, here's the issue. If, and when something comes up, we want you to be the person who represents us. And since you've got some time, you can shop around, you can find some folks. There are some extraordinary lawyers of great character out there. Um, and it doesn't have to feel like an emergency just because some knuckleheaded cousins or family members are barking at you. Okay. If dad says, I'm going to sue you and you get a letter from a lawyer, well, now you

got a problem. Okay. If you get a knuckleheaded demand letter from somebody that doesn't even have a stake in this custody at all, man, you know what I mean? So it feels heavy, and it feels like it's weighing on your heart, and you and your wife are in the middle of a process. But don't get overexcited about somebody

that doesn't get a vote in your life. Okay. Yeah, we've just been afraid they're going to manipulate him into taking us to court. And really, we know they don't have a leg to stand on. Sure. It's still expensive, though, right? Yeah, it's still expensive.

But if he hasn't shown up for anything else, I don't know what's going to lead you to believe he's going to show up for this, right? Absolutely right. There you go. So don't give him space in your heart and head until he tries to insert himself in there. And especially don't give somebody's ex's external family members space in your heart and head who don't deserve to be there right how often do we do that anthony man man we give the the friend of a friend of a friend some space in our souls to weigh us down and to give you know put arguments in our hearts and make us frustrated we got to stop giving uh people real estate to our minds, man.

No, no. But great, great answer, bro. Great answer. This is amazing. Well, I want to thank James Childs, Kelly Daniel. Thank you, Anthony. Yes, sir. This has been The Dave Ramsey Show.

Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.