The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Get a Reluctant Spouse on Board?

Episode Date: June 6, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony discuss: What's the best next step to take with your money, Using a personal credit card for corporate business expenses, Paying off your mortgage vs. investing, Getting a reluctant spouse on board with the plan. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. This is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney is my co-host today, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and big-time help in the relationship category. The questions you've got about mental wellness, we'll talk to you about your career, your money, any of it. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Tom's in Portland, Maine. Hi, Tom. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me on. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So I called last summer. I called into your show and you gave me some advice and I took that advice and I wanted to... Was it any good? It was great advice. I guess you wouldn't call back. If the advice sucked, you wouldn't call back. I was hoping you were calling to complain. Man, all right. So we had a rental property that we were debating on, you know, holding on to our selling and your advice was to sell it. And we actually did just that. We had 300 K 300 K, um, and equity in the property. And we actually sold it for much more than we thought we could have. And we walked away net about 500 K from the sale. I'm so smart. I'm glad I could help. Now, the primary purpose for the capital or the proceeds was to put it towards our primary residents, you know, in terms of an upgrade and whatnot.

But we haven't had too much luck in the market. So my question to you is, you know, now that we have the $500K, do we sit on that in terms of savings? Do we short-term invest it do we reinvest in real estate and and try and you know over the next year or two you know try and make a splash in that sense or what should our next move be with that type of capital sitting in our savings account at the moment 30 years of doing this the vast majority of people who become wealthy do it incrementally layer upon layer not with splashes okay so you hit a really really good lick but you've owned that house a long time and you did it incrementally to get to this 500k in your pocket

okay so i'm much more concerned with your next move that with the money the money that the money is available to do its main goal which is move up in house when the market calms down enough and you're ready to buy you find up you sneak up on a deal right um then i am that the 500k makes a bunch of money so let's just play with some numbers for a second. This will help you, okay? If you make 10% on the money, you make 50K. If you make a splash, which would be like, woo-hoo, like unheard of, you make 20% on your money. You make another 50K.

10% is kind of a pretty much you can do, okay? 20%, you just got either lucky or you hit a zone or you made a gamble of some kind, a much higher risk play, and you made 20% on your money. So the whole thing of going from almost no risk to risk changes your picture in one year by 50 grand out of 500. It doesn't really take you anywhere because you're not going to double your money and i mean you could hypothetically i mean you could go to vegas and double your money but you could also but you'd also understand the chance of losing it all right so we're not even that's not even on the you know on the list of possibilities so within the realm

of reasonable the difference between making a higher risk and a medium to low risk doesn't change the equation enough to screw with it. Okay, so what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? I would park it all in a money market account and sit and wait until I bought a house. Or I might do half of it in an index fund and ride the market for two years okay now in my case i've got a lot more net worth and a lot more liquidity cash and so losing some of the money wouldn't have as big an impact on my life, so I'm probably dropping it all into an index fund. As a matter of fact, I know I'm doing that because it's what I do all the time with excess money. I drop it into an index fund until I find a piece of real estate or find a project I want to work on with it.

Okay? Now, here's the thing. Index fund, meaning an S&P 500, is going to do what the stock market does. Stock market goes up 10%. Fairly normal. You're going to make around 50 grand stock market goes down 10 very unusual in a calendar year very unusual but you lost 50 grand that's your play okay you might make 50 you might lose 50 you're not going to lose 100 unless you're like

the world's worst timing guy on the planet and you're not going to make a hundred unless you just catch a lucky break uh i wouldn't go into it with that expectation so if you want to play with a little bit and if you want to cut those numbers in half do what i said a while ago put 250 in a money market and 250 in a simple uh thing but the point is don't worry about what this money is doing as much as worry about having patience for the next buy because you're going to mess up your purchase on that next house by more than you could make if you get in a hurry or if you put the money and something is stuck in you can't get it out so i'm an uneducated guy so help me here so my no you're overly educated about some about one little sliver of the world you've got that i got an advantage on you in one subject okay so if i put it in a

money market account that's earning two percent right now and inflation's eight and a half am i losing six and a half percent on that money well is it is it technically a six and a half percent loss yes in purchasing power okay but here's the thing he's not going to use it for buying gasoline he's going to use it for buying a house. So what are houses going to go up during the time that he's making 2%? And they're trying to slow the housing thing down. I think it's officially. It's slowed down.

I mean, it's probably growing. Instead of 30% a year, it's probably growing 7% a year. Okay. But point still made, the house, if you're looking at a million-dollar house, might go up 5% more than his money went up. Okay. You know, and so he's going backward with the money market. That's why I'd like to put a little of it in there.

But still, that's not going to dictate nearly as much as don't get in a bidding war and run it up 200 grand because you've got house fever and your wife likes the dishwasher. And you got obsessed about it. I've got to do it now. I've got to do it now. And you get all caught up in the in the urgency so it's the tyranny of the urgency it's almost yeah it's almost a i i like that almost as a as a as a slowdown tax like just chill the power is in the patience there you go not in the investment so working with law students they used to train it was train them called the power of the Pause. Whoever talks last loses, right?

So just be quiet. Just be quiet, right? And let people keep talking. In sales, we would ask a closing question and then teach them to shut up. Stop talking. Just stop talking. The power of that silence. Yes.

And, you know, in theater, they teach you the power of the pause. Same thing. It's the same thing. There's a dramatic effect if you're quiet. My dad used to do that. Something we sell tomorrow on this show. My dad used to do that. What happened, John?

I'd be like, nothing, Dad. He'd just sit there and look at me and I'd say, I mean, I didn't mean to, man. I mean,

it was like, it wasn't on purpose and he had no idea. He's just fishing in a really rich, target-rich environment. Golly. What happened?

That question got me in more trouble. Oh, man. Just be patient. John, just tell me what you did. That list is long, Dave. That list is long. I'm going to let you be a little more focused on your questions.

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You cannot beat that at all. All right. Justin is with us. Justin is in Lubbock, Texas. Hi, Justin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? Oh, nothing much. So I'm fairly new to Dave Ramsey, everything like that. I just had a quick question. I'm starting a new job where I'm going to be traveling a lot. They're going to expense it afterwards. I know you don't

like credit cards, but is it worth getting a travel credit card for this instance when they're going to expense it out? Well, no, but let me walk you through why, okay, rather than just give you an answer. Number one, I would ask that if they're asking you to travel on their money, ask them to just give you one of their cards okay i mean i don't understand why this big company needs you as their bank needs you to front them money uh i do understand it's because corporate america has gotten rid of or gotten away with letting travel ride on their employees backs for 30 days for 25 years and nobody ever called them on it and i'm calling them on it it's bullcrap i don't send my people out that work here and ask them to pay for the travel where ramsey solutions makes money uh well you're getting

reimbursed well why do i need why do i need uh you know one of my guys that works here to be my bank i've got the money i need to just pay for his travel or her travel, right? And so first thing I do is ask for it. I'm just calling you out, corporate America. You suck, okay? You're riding on the back of your employee's own credit. So here's the problem for you, Justin. Two problems.

Here's the pitfalls. And you can get away with it if you want to get away with it. But the pitfalls are number one i had a guy had an mx card that was uh charged to uh that his company was reimbursing and they asked him while he was in europe to pick up twelve thousand dollars worth of equipment and so he did uh put in his suitcase brought it home and when he got home and went to the officers padlock on the door they filed chapter 11 he ended up with eleven11,000 on his Amex card. They did not reimburse him.

And so that happens sometimes. And then the other thing, well, it never happened with this company. Yeah, right. It's a famous last words. But the other thing that happens more often than that is you've got this stupid thing in your pocket, and I've traveled for 30 years, and there's something about travel that makes the human brain be stupid. You eat the wrong foods.

You stay up too late. You don't exercise. You buy crap because you're bored. And that crap you can't put on your expense report. And you end up with an extra 25% of whatever of what you thought you were spending. You spent $1,000 on the company and $250 on you that you can't get reimbursed. And you end up with credit card debt is what you end up with and i'm telling you because i've traveled for a living and you know i have when i'm on the road

look we're back on the road we're back doing these events and things i have to be unbelievably diligent with my uh my health my food intake my spending my everything. Where my eyes go. I have to be very militant about that because over the years I've learned I just get fat, sloppy, and broke when I travel. And it's just bad, you know? Hey, Justin, let me give you a third one. I'm going to give you a third one. I did this once when I was in college and I was a student leader. And so I would put all the school purchases on my personal credit card and the school would just reimburse me.

And I thought I was running a scam here because I was trying to build up miles and all that kind of nonsense. That's a whole other call. But here's what happened. In the middle of the gap one month, my transmission fell out of – or my clutch burned out on my little cheap Toyota that I was driving. At the same moment, I got a $1,000 reimbursement check. I did not have $1,000 or $700, whatever it cost, to get a new clutch. And so I had that check, I cashed it, and I went and got my car fixed. And that money did not go right back into the pot to pay the credit card off.

Yeah, that's it. And so life hit me in the gap there, and I just didn't have the discipline to do it. Very, very few people do. That's why we don't play with them. And so what I do is I set up – what I suggest you do is you set up a separate account, checking account, for just travel only, reimbursable expenses. How much do you think your travel is going to be in a month? Money. I wouldn't expect it to get more than four or five thousand dollars okay as quickly as you can seed that one account with three or four thousand bucks okay and use a debit card and then basically you're using your money and then you're putting the money back into your account that you've used of your money from them,

that will cause your brain to function differently when you see something in the airport gift store that you think you need that you don't need. Because there's nothing in an airport gift store that anyone actually needs. Hey, and just so people understand what Dave was saying earlier, I go on the road all the time doing private things, doing things with the team. Before I leave, an envelope literally appears on my desk with travel cash in it that is you putting money in my pocket for travel. If you're not someone that carries a company debit card, we front you the cash. Put cash on it. Literally. Cash.

That's right. And you mentioned in Entrez Leadership book once, and I'd never thought of this before, people challenge you on giving your employees company debit cards. Like, how could you trust them to do that? And your response in the book, it's been a few years since I read it, but it was something to the effect of, if you don't trust somebody enough don't hire them right if you can't give them two thousand dollars it shouldn't be your brand on their back pay them 150 grand what kind of idiot are you you know i mean you can't trust them with i mean you hired somebody you can't trust with two grand but you pay them 150 and they represent your brand

yeah that's oh my gosh that's dumber than a rock yeah but corporate. That's dumber than a rock. Yeah. But corporate America is dumber than a rock, so I'll just tell you. They're just stupid. Bag of hair. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Devin's in Montana. Hi, Devin. I'm short on time. What's up?

Hi, Dave. Hi, Dr. Deloney. I just got to say I love your show, Dr. Deloney. It's great. It helps me talk to my wife a lot. Awesome. Thank you much. Hey, we're right up against the clock.

What's your question, brother? So my wife and I, we're curious, when we're finished with step three, should we – so she doesn't really like the house that we're in. I'm fine with it. But our house has nearly doubled in value with the crazy house market. Hey, Devin, what's your question? I'm wondering, is it wise to save a down payment seemingly against increasing house prices? No. Or pay off the house that we're in, even though my wife doesn't necessarily like it?

Pay off the house that you're in, even though my wife doesn't necessarily like it. Pay off the house that you're in because when you sell that house, they're going to magically write you a check and give you all that money back at a closing. You're not giving up the money when you pay down on your mortgage. You're storing it in your home. And it doesn't accidentally get spent on a bass boat then. Pay down on the house in Baby Step 6 in in order then when you sell the house and move up because your wife doesn't like the house and son you are moving you're moving yes it's just a matter of when okay they're going to give you the money out of that house Thank you. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage.

Zach and Megan are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good, how are you? Good. Better than we deserve. Good to have you. Where do y'all live? Dalton, Georgia. Ah, just down over the Tennessee line then, huh? Yes, sir. Welcome to Nashville.

How much debt did you pay off? Just about $51,000. Good for you. And how long did that take? Right at two years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We started out around $35,000 and we're up to about $128,000. Nice jump. Okay, so what kind of debt was the $51,000? We had some medical bills, some student loans, and some auto loans. Y'all were kind of normal. Absolutely. How long you been married?

Seven years. Okay. So I guess somebody got a job that didn't have one? How did you go from 35 to 128? I graduated with my bachelor's and got a real estate license and an insurance license, actually, and she graduated with her master's degree. In what? Social work.

Okay. Yep. And were you working before that? Yeah, just part-time jobs. But, I mean, you took on, like, a big income then. Yes. And then your income went way up with real estate. Yes. Okay.

What a time to stumble into that job, man. Wow. Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. So what happened that made you decide get out of debt is good for our new young marriage well we actually saw you live in 2015 um then we kind of did diet day for a little bit diet day okay we definitely didn't go all the way

and then um and so we got your book and then on I actually went through the class. And when she came along, our little one, a couple years ago, that's when we really decided we wanted to change the family tree. Okay. Oh, wait a minute. This just got real. We got a baby. We got to be grownups and stuff. Yes.

Yeah. So then you get the book off the shelf and go, no ish, we're doing it. Absolutely. Okay. Wow. Good for you. Who had the conversation with who? That was probably a little more me.

When I first heard about you, I was working for someone. It was about eight years ago, and I was cleaning pools. And I was riding around with a business owner. He was in this old, broken-down van that was paid for. And we listened to your show every morning. It came on the radio, and I was like, this guy is crazy. And I did not buy into it it wasn't until i probably i got closer into real estate and actually met a lot of wealthy people that when i mentioned your name they they spoke highly of you and the plan and i was like okay there's definitely something behind this so megan

you just you just went like like you were not in at all huh no I was definitely on board um it's it's more just trying the discipline of buckling down um I think in you know we were newly married and um I feel like like our first couple months of marriage you know everything comes at you at once financial issues and you're trying to navigate those and so um he came to me with this plan and i just i just thought he was crazy but i've always trusted him and here we are seven years later and i'm glad that i did so what happened at the two-year mark the real estate thing where you got she's two years old okay yes and what's your two-year mark? The real estate thing where you got the influence of wealthy people? When she was born. She's two years old. Okay.

Yes. And what's your two-year-old's name? Wren. Wren. Okay, sweet. Very good. And Zach, are you a schemer? I'm a schemer.

And I say that not in a bad way, but like you're a pool cleaner and then like, I'm going to do insurance, I'm going to do real estate. He hopped around a little bit, yeah. But you seem like you guys always got a plan and I can imagine sitting down and being like, all right, I got a new plan to get out of debt. And you're like, all right. I'm about as nerdy as it gets. I started in taxes and then went to real estate and then went from real estate to insurance. And I kept my real estate license.

Megan, you must be the funnest human being ever to counterbalance. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course. That's awesome. Yes. He's definitely the nerd. I'm the free spirit.

There we go. Okay. Good. Good. All right. that's awesome yes he's definitely the nerd on the free spirit there we go definitely okay good good all right so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is you pay off fifty one thousand dollars in debt in two years the uh the communication for sure and um really just getting together on a plan and giving that why why we're doing this what the goal is and having that shared goal like what what's our plan um i had someone tell me um in real estate actually they were planning on retiring at 55 and i was like how you doing that you know

are you planning on hitting the lottery what what is that and he's like no i mean i'm saving for retirement i'm planning for retirement and i just i i don't know it was just i couldn't fathom that and so as i we got on the plan and we started learning more i was like okay if we get on board we're um both of us are not 30 yet i was like i think we can get the plan and we started learning more, I was like, okay, if we get on board, both of us are not 30 yet. I was like, I think we can get this done and we can actually retire early. And so we started talking about retirement at an early age now. And it's just, I don't know, having that why is very important. It is. So, Megan, what do you say?

What's the reason you all got out of debt? I mean, what is the thing you did that got you out of $51,000 in debt? Definitely discipline and really working to be content. I think it's really hard. You scroll through social media and you see everyone doing everything. And so I think really being content where we were just in our living situation

and just everything, our jobs at the time and being content in each season of life and working together and convincing myself that I was content I eventually became content. So yeah. It's a

spiritual state of being that you have to aspire to. You have to want to do it. It doesn't just come on you like a weather pattern or something. I mean, you have to decide, I'm going to be content. And that's very cool. I like that. Coming from a free spirit in particular, that's very important.

And because that's, I'm the spender out of the two of us. Sharon's the tightwad, the saver. And so for me to stop spending required that same exercise, even though I'm a nerd spender, which is a little weird. But the spending part, you know, I distinctly remember going to Costco and leaving with nothing. And it was like this personal spiritual victory because I thought it was like a federal law. You had to spend $200 every time you went in there. Like, that's why they check your little thing

when you're checking out. You know, make sure you spent 200 bucks, right? And so it was a breakthrough. I just, I mean, I was like your age when that happened. And I suddenly went, I don't have to have stuff. Wow, that's like I'm off drugs or something. It's pretty cool. And so that's very insightful.

Very well done. Good job, you guys. Very proud of you. Thank you. Who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you? We definitely had family that supported us through this, especially our grandparents. Our grandparents thought this was a lot of common sense. They're right.

I told them you made a lot of money off selling common sense. They're right. And it really is. The family behind that really did help us for sure cool cool i i think i know y'all know this but it's important for me to say it i hope y'all don't miss what you've done for her every she is not going to understand the angst and that what do we do we can't believe we owe this money and we can't make it this month or inflation's crazy inflation is going to be annoying it's not going to be catastrophic for y'all right right and the the the work y'all did those two years to lay a sidewalk for this young one to grow up on is it's family generational transformational so and from a mental from a mental wellness standpoint the peace that that's in their house, because you sit here and talk about contentment.

There's a different air in the home. The way your child feels in the air of that house is different because you're content. That's right. And you hear that old saying that you just have to turn the wheel one degree, and eventually that car turns all the way around. Y'all turned it much more than one degree, but just by altering the air a little bit to where y'all aren't bickering as much or y'all aren't complaining or you're not as frustrated or you don't have to go have the new whatever or you don't have to have another scheme just to survive mommy's going retail therapy that's right and dad's got another plan and then another plan unbelievable but you don't have to do that and it changes the electricity in your home and man what a gift you've given her

thank you all. On behalf of parents everywhere, thank you. Just beautiful. Absolutely fabulous. We've got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That's the next chapter in your story for sure. How ordinary people build extraordinary wealth. How you can, too, just like those wealthy people you talked to.

And also a copy of Total Money Makeover for you. And we're going to give you a copy or give you a one-year subscription to Financial Peace University and every dollar as a Ramsey Plus subscription. And if you haven't been through, go ahead and go through it, and that'll help you move on towards the Baby Steps Millionaire. If you haven't been through it, give it to somebody. That's why we want to give it to you so you can pass it along. All right, Zach and Megan and Wren Dalton, Georgia, $51,000 paid off in two years. Make it $35,000 to $128,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo! Another family tree changed right there because they made different choices. I love them.

They're heroes, man. You guys are heroes. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. I'm Dave Ramsey. Wendy is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Wendy. How are you?

I am fabulous today, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. Just a straight shoot here. The point of the call is my spouse and I are not on the same page as far as getting on this plan together. I do know that the full reason is me. We've been together 20 years. I'm an alpha female.

I've always led. I'm the firstborn. I've been a single mom. All of that just puts me in the powerhouse. And my husband has been amazing to endure all of that that comes from me. But I've gotten to a point this year and something john deloney had said the other day on the show is like sometimes you're just in the corner just getting pounded and pounded and pounded and just waiting for the bell to ring for the round so you can stand up and

reset and i just shook with identifying with that this year you're getting pounded or you're pounding him no she's getting well we're in life i we're well we're both you're getting pounded or you're pounding him no she's getting well we're in life i we're well we're both kind of getting pounded in that way but in like the last year three kids got married we empty nested my mom oh i get you i get you okay it's not between you and your husband it's just life coming at you no okay oh no we're not going to get into pounding but we're going to have a tough conversation coming up. And I just, I'm actually two business days into I'm all in on this ship. And in these two days, I have contacted an open credit card that I found that I had. I didn't think I had credit cards for over 25 years, but I had like a furniture store card that had nothing on it, but it's sitting there

open. So I called and canceled that. I canceled a subscription. Today I'm having a conversation with my boss about getting more hours and changing my W-2. And I had a conversation with the bank on Friday about a car that I potentially should sell. My husband is looking at me like I am a crazy woman. And when I get in change is happening mode, you can hear the Lego bricks build a wall right up in front of them. And I've learned over the course of time that if I just calm down and start doing the thing and prove that it's working without any demand on him or any request of him that he eventually swings around and comes on board. I do want us to be together on this. And when I look at the numbers, I bring in $22,500.

He brings in $55,000. When I look at my debt, I keep looking at mine and his at the moment just because the swing around of us getting together. Just tell me how much debt your family has. I don't know for sure from his perspective because I just found out that there's more credit cards in his wallet than I knew of. Okay. How long have y'all been married? 15. Okay. And what would you, if you were going to guess how much debt is in his name, what would you guess? If I think on his history,

maximum probably 15 on cart. What is owed on your cart? Medical debt. What's owed on your cart? The cart is $18,500. Okay. And what else? What other kind of debt is there? He has a car that's only got like $3,000 left on it. So the big picture, we don't have tons, but a lot of it is secretive.

And, you know, I'm all in. Here's the super thing. Losing my mom, losing a grandparent, he has some sort of retirement through work. I do not. I was self-employed for a lot of years and then I worked in an atmosphere where I was like, oh, he has insurance, no big deal.

Hey, Wendy. Yeah. This is Wendy. Yeah. This is John. You know what I hear? I hear somebody who has been scratching and clawing and fighting for a long, long time. There's still a scared single mom talking to me right now. That's exactly right.

I'm still talking to a single mom who does not know when the next shoe is going to drop, and this year a whole bunch of shoes have dropped at the same time. And the way we often respond to all the shoes dropping is we default to the scariest moments our bodies have had to endure, and most of us start grabbing for control. I'm just like you. I come up with a new plan, and I'm going to go see this happen, come hell or high water, and I will swing and fight and scratch and claw and take everybody with me.

And some people are a little wiser and they stop and they actually take a step back and scan the landscape and say, what's coming next? Is this threat real? Is this one not? But the next move forward cannot be another control grab. It can't be another survival move. It has to be a move towards connection. So another way of saying that is the next move is a finesse move, not a blunt trauma move.

Right. Okay. I hear that. And a finesse move might be that, what if I told you 90% of you winning with this money thing five years from today is dependent upon you all being on the same page? Only 10% of you doing all this gyration you've been doing since Friday. Right. You've got to get him on the same page. It's paramount. Because that's where the peace is going to come from.

That's where the quality relationship is going to come from. And the data points tell us that your probability of overall wealth building and success is so much higher when you're working together. And you might pull him into this, almost shame him into it by you getting your act together, and he doesn't. But generally speaking, that doesn't work. What does work is to stop and just start having conversations about the future and go, hey, the single mom that used to be so scared she couldn't eat Friday that we had beans and rice, rice and beans, and we had ramen noodles, and that was it, is activated down inside of me right now because of all this crap that's happened. And there's part of me that's just scared, and I'm just driving towards some financial peace because I've never really had any, and I need some help with this, and I know you think I'm a little crazy because I am, but I want to go through this class, and would you just go through the videos with me and watch them with me and tell me what you think?

And if you can get him to sit down and watch nine Financial Peace University videos with you. By the way, if you can get him to watch one, I'll probably get him to watch the rest because we're that good. Okay. But get him to watch one or two with you. And then it'll start to be his idea and your idea together. And what you're doing is you're setting a vision together for the future instead of, well, I got this figured out. He's tired of me beating on him, so he can just sit over there and watch while I go do it right until he wakes up. That's just highly inefficient.

There's no finesse in that play. And, Wendy, I'm going to one-up. Ready? Ready. I would love for you to follow that conversation with the truth that y'all have been married for 15 years, but y'all haven't been married. Y'all have been co-managing a house for 15 years. And if you sat down and look across the table from him and say, I want the next 15 years to be different. I want us to be together. And that means I'm going to

have to change. And I'm sorry for running over you for 15 years. And I'm going to have to be different. Will you, will you practice that with me? And by the way, you're not perfect either, bub. And let him be open about some of the challenges he has, because really this is about, man, Dave nailed it, man. this is about man you're dave nailed it man this is about y'all coming together i've found the greatest way to come together is to i'm going to put my shield and sword down first and that means he may kill you he's not going to but that means he can hurt you and you haven't been hurt in a long time because you haven't let nobody that close you haven't let anybody that close right you're right okay yeah i i i really like you you're brave you're a warrior princess

but um but yeah but this is this one's going to be one at the diplomacy table not with the sword and the shield all right will you do that for you i will do that for us there you go you hang on. I'm going to put you in Financial Peace University as my gift. It'll cost you a thing. Kelly's going to pick up. I'm going to sign you up for a year's subscription. And the only sale you've got to make is to get his butt in front of a TV for an hour.

That's the only sale you've got to make. You can do that. My wife has gotten me to watch some things on TV that are just amazing, like Downton Abbey. Dave talked Sharon into Downton Abbey. If she can do that, then you can get him to watch FPU. That was your idea, Dave. I lost my man card right then. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of the Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to the Ramsey Show every week? A lot 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week?

A lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to ramseysolutions.com slash show.