The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Get My Husband on a Budget? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 28, 2021

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Welcome Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Christy Wright, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Her new book is on presale.

Take Back Your Time, The Guilt-Free Guide to Life Balance. She will be doing a free live event streamed tonight at 7 p.m. Central Time on YouTube and Facebook, all about balance. You'll learn what life balance is, what it isn't, the root cause of why you feel out of balance, and how to achieve your version of balance. RamseySolutions.com slash balance. Christy is an incredible communicator. You will thoroughly enjoy this event.

And by the way that I mentioned, it's free. So tonight, 7 p.m. Central Time, YouTube and Facebook, RamseySolutions.com slash balance. Get your RSVP and it's going to be fun. It's going to be good. It's going to help you know not only what's keeping you from feeling balanced, but what to do about it. It's going to be great. Jost is with us in Detroit. Hey, Jost, what's up?

Hello, Jost. what's up? Hello? Jost? Jost? Hello? Oh, there he is. There he is. We found the phone. Good. What's up, man? Sorry about that. It was on mute. No troubles? How can we help? So I'm looking to go back to grad school

and I'm kind of curious as to whether I should be taking out the student loans to do so. Well, Jost, do you listen to the show very much not very much my brother is the one who actually put me on to the show recently he tricked you he did well i'm glad you're here brother said step up on the trap and we're gonna pull the rug out call it call brother your brother you owe your brother a punch in the nose. You do. He said, call this guy that hates debt and ask him if you should take out debt. He's got some popcorn listening to this call right now, Jost.

Listen, no, we don't want you to take out student loans. Not for a master's degree, not for any degree. We want you to save up and pay cash. What do you want to do? What do you want to get your degree in? Cybersecurity. Okay. What do you want to do? What do you want to get your degree in? Cybersecurity. Okay. What are you doing now?

So I actually was working in IT. I actually recently quit my job. So right now I'm not doing anything, but I was working in IT for a state agency. Okay. So why do you need a master's in cybersecurity to work in cybersecurity? We got cybersecurity people working here. None of worked it out through work as I was doing it. And I want to be really, really good at what I do. And so there's lots of knowledge that I don't have. And over the years, there have been things that have come up just because I didn't have that.

But I learned from Google. And there are things that will come up missing. So I'm just kind of looking to go to school for them to actually teach me the things that I need to know and then go into the field. That is very wise. You're very smart in what you have described. As a person who has 1,000 people working for me, 440 of them are technology people, many of them in cybersecurity.

Our cybersecurity guys were at work last night, as a matter of fact, had an issue. And so, in other words, I'm the employer that you want to hire you later, in a sense. You follow me? So coming from that perspective, I am qualified to tell you I would not require that you have a master's degree. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure getting a master's degree in information technology will not teach you what you're trying to get. Instead, you are already on the right track in practical experience is what I'd be looking for, number one. Number two, I would want you to pick up some of the trade certificates, certification programs like Microsoft Certs and some of those others,

and there's plenty of really good one-off training in cybersecurity that would actually give you the information that you are looking for, the knowledge that you are looking for to be able to do the thing that you're wanting to do, versus a master's degree is very academic. And honestly, by the time you finish it, the stuff you learned will probably be obsolete. It's going to be dated. That's right.

Joseph, I'm curious, why'd you quit your job? Because I wanted to go to school. So I was kind of feeling stuck at work for a little bit and decided that I wanted to make the career change. Okay. But wasn't quite sure how to get into it. So then school looked like to be a good option. And I actually got into one of the best cybersecurity schools in the country.

And I want to get into. What's it cost? So I want to be the Carnegie Mellon. What's it cost? Carnegie Mellon. What does it cost? Carnegie Mellon. What does it cost? Oh, what does it cost? Sorry, I thought you said what it's called.

$100,000. Okay. I would not spend that. Okay. I really wouldn't. I mean, you can do what you want to do. And you obviously called some people you hardly know who we are, and we're screwing with your dream, so it's hard for you to hear all this.

But I'm just telling you, as the employer that, I mean, with a thousand person team here, 400 tech people on the team, I couldn't give a rip less if you went to Carnegie Mellon or not. Just let me tell you, here's what I would do instead if I were you. And it's going to still move you in the direction you want to go. I would find a company that you want to do cybersecurity for. I would go take a pay cut and do anything for them and study under them and learn how to do the things you don't know how to do while on the job, while getting paid, which is still going to pay you more than you're making now, which is nothing.

And better than that, they will also pay tuition. And you're not in $100,000 in debt. But not to Carnegie Mellon. They'll just pay you tuition to go get the certs that will give you the knowledge that you need to do the job you're looking to go do. So we just saved you $100,000 in debt, and you have an income while learning how to do the things you want to do. You just signed up for Harvard is what you signed up for. And the question is, is there an ROI when you pay full price for Harvard?

And the answer is, in such a small percentage of jobs, will you make a return on investment on this? That it is not a good investment. If you were my son, I would advise you the exact way we are advising you right now. And that's not to trash Carnegie Mellon. It's to say that in the field that you're in, the rate of change of information is daily. It's daily. While you're getting this degree, some of the languages and code that you know right now will become obsolete.

While you're getting this degree, the processes, some of the companies that provide security apps and provide security software will be out of business while you're getting this degree. The rate of change is blinding in the technology world.

You have to be in a dead sprint to keep up with it when it is your career. But if you sideline yourself and go into crunchy academic world while you're doing this, I mean, and it's not to say that Carnegie Mellon isn't cutting edge. I suspect they are. Some of you people are going to troll me on this. Just troll your butt away. I'm the one that'll be hiring you. Here's the thing, Jost.

You know who people want to hire? People they know that they've seen do the job on the job. Not someone that has a certificate with a certain brand on it. Someone they've worked with. Someone they trust. They've watched them. Go be that person. If you had $100,000 cash in the bank, I'd tell you not to do it. If you're borrowing money, I'm going to yell at you for doing it.

Don't do it, son. Now, you go do what you want to do, and you can call us later, and we'll still love you, and we'll still help you, even if you do stupid stuff. This is The Ramsey Show. If current times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen, and we have to deal with it. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 20 years, the only company I've recommended is Zander Insurance, not only because they search all of the top term life plans to find you the best rates, but over the years they have constantly changed and updated their systems to make the whole process simpler and easier to get the protection needed. You can now apply with a completely touchless experience

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to get out of debt and become wealthy. But it's not just enough to learn the plan. You've got to actually freaking do it and the way you do it is starting with the budgeting app the world's best budgeting app that's every dollar and every dollar premium is part of the whole package and all of this you access it through ramsey plus a ramsey plus membership you can create the life where your money actually works for you instead of you just working for it time to get rid of the debt for good start your free trial of ramsey plus text trial to 33 789 that's trial to 33 789 hannah

is with us in myrtle beach hi hannah welcome to the ramsey Show. Hello, Dave and Christy. I'm excited and terrified to talk to y'all. Oh, don't be terrified. How can we help? What's going on? I'm looking for a little bit of advice. My husband and I are getting out of debt for our third time in our marriage, and I can never seem to get past Baby Step 3. I can never seem to save the emergency fund. My husband is a full-time pastor, a full-time roofer, and so he works all the time. So I take care of the finances. I take care of the budget, everything. My question is, how can I have him

help me when it comes to the budget and the finances and everything? He's willing to help, but he doesn't know how to help. He also does not spend any money whatsoever, so he's in extreme favor. I'm the spender. So I'm just looking for a little bit of advice to get us onto Baby Step 3 and past Baby Step 3. I'm so tired of feeling like I'm doing it by myself. Hmm. I know this is not what you're asking, Hannah,

but I want to go back to why you get yourself back into debt three different times. What's going on? Why do you keep going back into this thing? It is me just losing all power and will to not get back into debt. I get past baby step two, and it's not huge debt. Like, I'm not in big debt right now, but it's – sorry, I'm very nervous. That's okay. Your husband's dad was a roofer?

No, no. My husband is a roofer. No, what would your husband's dad do? He – right now he's working at a plant. What was your husband's dad do? Right now, he's working at a plant. What did he do when your husband was growing up? He worked in a chemical plant. Okay, in a factory.

Mm-hmm. Okay, all right. Your husband is a good man. He loves God, and he works hard. He, however, is not functioning like your husband. He's functioning like your son. Right. You're the mommy, and you make all the adult decisions and carry all the adult responsibilities.

He just goes to work. Mm-hmm. responsibilities he just goes to work and if you actually gently call him out on that he will respond because he loves his wife and that would sound like this honey i need your help i can't carry the weight of all of this by myself anymore number one i can't handle the stress number two when i do it by myself we go back into that and you work so hard you're such a good man but i've got to have you emotionally carry your half of the finances of this household and here's one thing i would add a way of saying man up here's one thing i would add when you have this conversation when you have this conversation which is is going to be so important i want you to be extremely specific with what help looks like to you yes because if you say

help me and he says okay i'll help you and then six months goes by in your mind help is more overtime yeah you need to be very... Like, even when you say, I need help, I don't even know that you know. This will be good for you to think about, okay, here's what this would look like. Does it look like paying bills? Does it look like showing up for the budget meeting? What does it look like specifically, tactically, visually? And then connect there and allow him to speak into it, obviously.

But expectations have got to be crystal clear. I'm not making any more financial decisions by myself there you go there's a there's a great one you have to help me make the financial decisions we're going to look at the budget together and you're going to feel the strain of the bill paying with me yeah yeah because you feel the weight when the stuff is when it gets tight you get the you get the sweat in the palm of your hands and across the top of your eyebrow you get that feeling that tightness in your throat he doesn't have that feeling at all he needs that feeling it will change and it will help you

because the good news is he's a saver and so he's going to hold you accountable now the dad news is he's going to hold you accountable so your your days of being in control by yourself are about done. Yeah. You got to be careful with what you wished for because you're going to have somebody to report to with all this spending and going back into debt. But it's going to be a great thing. It's going to be such a healthy conversation where you're on the same page. Let's do it. He's meeting you there.

Let's do it this way. I'm going to put you in Ramsey Plus for a year free as my gift. And the way you can phrase the conversation then is, honey, I need your help. I can't do this by myself anymore. It's wearing me out. I need you to help me carry the weight of the adult decision-making of the money. I've been doing it by myself, and I just can't do it anymore. I've got to have you help me do that.

And the way we're going to start that is we're going to go through this class together right here online. We'll sit on the couch and do it after the kids go to bed. And I know you're tired. So am I. I'm sick and tired, though. And so you've got to help me with this. And just like if you came to him and said, honey, I'm sick. I need you to put the kids to bed.

He would do that. He would do that. He would carry his share of the weight. He would do chores that he normally doesn't do if you asked him for help because he loves you. But you need to be very specific because, guys, we don't do subtlety. You have to tell us what it is. And then say it again a couple more hundred times just well if you get him in this class together and you guys are making the budget together on every dollar and you're making your decisions together it's going to give you what you want and some things you didn't even want that are coming

your way but you're gonna it's gonna change the whole thing so that'll be a way you can do it so you hold on and i'll pick up uh i'll have i'll pick up i'll have have Kelly pick up and get you signed up for Ramsey Plus. And you can do the stuff you're supposed to do then. And you guys get in there and get into Financial Peace University, get the every dollar budget going together. Because this is what's going on. So, Christy, there's a thing. And you guys out there listening, I'm going to piss some of you off, but just get ready. It doesn't come from a mean place.

It's observation, and it's not always true. But in a lot of blue-collar families, mama takes care of the money, and daddy does the work. And that's a modeling thing of what it means to be a husband that he got from his dad. And so he moved in, and now Mama's taking care of the money. But there's a – oftentimes in white-collar families, it can be the same way if you grew up in a blue-collar family. Because the generational what's taught and passed down. Exactly, how it's taught to you who's in charge.

This is what you do. Now, in your case, you grew up in a single mom's household where she's making all the decisions, and so you would never even think of not being involved in the decisions in your household. Right. It wouldn't occur to you because of your upbringing. It's interesting, though, because Matt and I have had such interesting discussions as newlyweds and still present day of how we, as a generation, but also as a couple, do things different than our parents did, not only because of how they worked, but even just raising kids and expectations.

It all is different. We have to define it for ourselves, what that's going to look like. And you do have to clarify where these roles came from. Rachel does a good job with that in the Know Yourself, Know Your Money book and the Know Yourself Money Assessment for Couples. That's another thing you can do is jump into that because that gets into the family of origin, how money was handled in the household you grew up in because that affects then how you're communicating with your spouse about it. So you can take that Know Yourself Money Assessment for Couples.

You guys, a bunch of you ought to take it. You can get it at Ramsey Solutions in the store. It's inexpensive and it's really, really a powerful assessment. It'll open up things for you like cray-cray. Man, it's nuts. It'll blow your mind. This is the Ramsey Personality. Number one bestselling author is my co-host today. On the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Andrew one bestselling author is my co-host today on the debt free stage

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Andrew and Amy are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good. Good. Welcome. Where do you guys live? Fredericksburg, Virginia. Oh, wow. Nice drive down to Nashville. Yep. Or flight or whatever. We drove. Yeah. Good to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off uh 247 352 dollars and 98 cents whoa how long did this take seven years four months all right and your range of income during that time uh started around 100 000 and up to around 170 man so i've got a feeling based on those numbers the number amount of time and the number of dollars that you might have paid off your house. Yep, we did. I'm looking at weird people.

Way to go, y'all. 100% debt-free house and everything. Yep, everything. How old are you guys? I'm 34. I'm 35. You're 34 years old with a paid-for house in Fredericksburg. Yep.

That's unbelievable. That's amazing. What's this house worth? Probably close to 280, 300 now. That's amazing. That's amazing. What's this house worth? Probably close to $280, $300 now. That's amazing. Look at you guys. Wow, you're so weird. You are so freaking weird.

I love you. That's awesome, man. Thank you. Yeah, you're too young and pretty to be 100% debt free. Y'all are amazing. This is just amazing. Well done. What put you on this journey seven years ago?

Well, we actually met, and I had already paid off my debt before student loans, paid those off, bought my house. And then we met, and Amy had some loans, so we went right back at it. And before we got married, we just agreed we're going to do this. So she actually started before we got married. She was already on it. And then when we got married, we cash flowed our wedding, honeymoon. How long have you been married? Six years, a couple weeks ago. Okay. So you had the house for seven then. That's where the 7.4 comes from, seven years or four months. But the whole time y'all been married, this whole six years, you've been knocking on the house, knocking on her student loans and then knocking on the house. Yep.

Yeah, we paid her student loans off in 2017. And then we cash flowed a couple of upgrades to our house, a new kitchen. We needed a bigger car. Sure. Started having kids, so we had to get a new car. We cash flowed all that stuff and then went right back into the house. So what in the world? Why does a young guy, Henry, I'm sorry, Andrew, Amy, you marry this guy,

and the first thing he starts talking about is how quick we're going to get out of debt. Right. Like, that's a real romantic conversation. Right, and it happened pretty quickly. It was just like student loans need to be taken care of. Kind of task-oriented, isn't he? Yeah. Oh, very much.

A little bit. So, Amy, was this a new concept for you? Like, when he's talking about paying off the student loans, paying off the house, is this like, okay, what are you talking about? Yes. Or were you already kind of like familiar with Dave and being debt-free and all that? Not familiar with Dave. I knew I wanted to pay off my student loans but yeah it

was yeah so it was just a process um i was just 100 jumping on board i was i grew up with you'll always have a mortgage you'll always have a car payment and i was okay with that but after we just were like we don't want to live that way yeah Yeah. He changed. So, Andrew, where did you learn this whole thing? I was actually trying to think about what the first time I heard of you was, and I can't remember. But I know every day going to work, coming back, I listen to the podcast every single day. Wow. Driving in, driving back. And then I'd tell her, hey, I heard this on the show.

Hey, let's listen to this one. So we would listen to little snippets all the time. So it was kind of always on and just always on my mind. In the background of your life. It's amazing how motivating it can be when you're on the journey to listen to people doing their debt-free scream or just listen to the advice, the answers that keeps you motivated because the journey can be long. But y'all did it. It was very long.

And that was definitely a key thing was just listening in and hearing other people doing their scream and knowing one day, one day that'll be us. That's cool. Okay. You're 35 years old. You have a paid-for house. Make $170. What do you guys do for a living? I get to stay home with my babies.

Love it. Awesome. And I do software project management. Excellent. Excellent. Very good. Awesome. And I do software project management. Excellent. Excellent. Very good. Okay. What is the secret?

You hear me ask this all the time. Yeah. What is the thing you have to do if you want to be you when you grow up? I mean, if you want to be debt-free house and everything and you're 35 years old or 45 years old or 55 years old, what's the secret to getting out of debt? I think the secret is really just paying attention. I know for a while I just, you know, making money, not really knowing where things are going. And then once I just said, all right, well, before I even set a goal, let me just see what I'm doing.

What am I spending my money on? So actively tracking it, actively sitting down, doing the budget, talking about it, even though it's, you know, sometimes painful to really try to think about it and have those conversations. But really open, honest communication, I think. It was difficult for me. It was very difficult to sit down every month to have that budget talk. But seeing the spreadsheets that he made and we had it taped on the bathroom door and filling out the debt thermometer. And we had like a little game to pay off our house just seeing that it was that was it that made it worth facing

what because really doing that budget meetings like looking in the mirror it's like and you don't always like what you see you know it's like uh-huh you know i gotta deal with this every month and that's that's what the dread is isn't it yes to say i gotta i gotta deal with this every month. And that's what the dread is, isn't it? Yes. To say, I've got to deal with me. I've got to deal with what's going on. And because I know I'm going to push this against this goal that we're sharing. And I do want the goal, but I don't always want to do what it takes to get to the goal. Right. Well, and good for you guys for doing that, for having that look in the mirror, for facing it every single month.

Because I think that moment you're describing is the thing so many people avoid. And because they avoid it, they never get to your shoes. They never make the change. But simply having the courage to face it and then do something about it, that's what kept you on this path. You guys are amazing. That's the right word. Courage.

That's the right word, Christy. That's exactly right. Way to go, you guys. You're freaking heroes. It's amazing. Who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you? My family. My parents came with us.

All right. It wasn't just my family, but our family. They were always behind us, always asking. They came down to cheer you on. They did. And an excuse to hang out with the grandkids. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I love it.

Very cool. Way to go, Mom and Dad. Good stuff. And the kiddos are with you. What are their names and ages? We've got Henry. He's five. Eleanor,'s three and arty he's one way to go arty you got this man i love it well we've got a copy of the legacy journey for you because for sure that's your next chapter to completely change this beautiful family tree a whole new direction because you guys

and um so how much are your investments Have you already added all those up? Yeah, we have. I think last time we looked, our net worth is probably around $700 now. So you're on your way to Baby Steps Millionaire. Oh, yeah. Be there in no time. Amazing. We'll be back.

You'll be there by the time you're 40. Easy. We hope so. Easy. Amazing. Way to go. There it is. That's how it works right there, people.

You're watching it happen in real time. Wow. Wow. Amazing. Good stuff. Also, a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give away to somebody and start their journey and disrupt their whole American life. Not a bad thing to do at all. I love it. All right.

Amy and Andrew. Henry, Eleanor, and Artie. $247,000 paid off in seven years and four months. House and everything. You're looking at and listening to weird people making $100,000 to $170,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free. Yeah, baby. That's how it happens right there. How fun is that? Those kids don't even know. They don't even know what their parents have just done for them. I mean, that's incredible. That's a complete change.

Yeah, they're young enough that they may have some vague memory of this weird day, but that dad and mom, they busted the whole thing. They busted the whole thing. It's completely changed. Because when you're 35 years old and you don't have a house payment, you understand how much money you're going to have? That's tens of millions of dollars if you just invest the house payment for the next 30 years.

Yeah. 35 to 65. Put 2,000 bucks in a month in a calculator and see what it does for you. It'll blow your freaking mind. I mean, it's tens of millions of dollars. Because they're going to be millionaires probably, I said five years. It won't take that long. Probably take two before they break through that because the house is going to continue to go up in value.

The current investments are going to go up in value, and they're going to be adding to them. Yeah. So they'll be baby steps millionaires well before they're 40. And being a millionaire doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. What matters is you took control of your life. The millionaire is just a scorecard. And he gives you the options to be generous, the options to do things.

Those three kids will never know debt. They'll never know student loan debt. They'll never know car debt. They'll never know house debt unless they misbehave and don't do what their parents taught them. Wow. Pretty cool stuff. Touchdown, baby! Woo!

This is The Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. Means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your window blinds for free. Free samples, free shipping, new promos all the time. You save even more.

Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Lissa in New York. She writes, I recently left my career as a management consultant and am considering a couple different options to create my own business. I have $42,000 in credit card debt, but I have $45,000 in cash on hand to pay it off. What should I do? Pay off all my debt and hope to get a business loan later or use my savings to begin the business opportunities that will generate an ongoing income stream within six months. Well, we don't have to know all the details of this to say, of course, we don't want you to take out business debt. Business loans are just like personal loans in the fact that they're debt and they're bad and they're a risk and they're yours and you have to be the one to pay them. So we don't recommend that

ever. The good news is, Alyssa, you have savings to be able to pay off that debt and become debt free. You'll still have $3,000 in cash on hand to start your emergency fund, your fully funded emergency fund, which would be three to six months of expenses. And then you save up to cash flow, whatever business growth or startup costs you may need. The thing that I would challenge if I had Lissa on the phone, what I would ask, what is your business and what costs do you really have? Because a lot of times, Dave, I get this kind of question and people think, oh, I need $50,000 to start my business. I need $10,000 to start my business. And you don't.

You don't. In many industries, you don't. Some you might need some startup costs, but in many of them you can start with your baby version of your idea, your scrappy version of your idea. And as the business is validated and you get cash into the business, that cash can fund the growth. You started this organization on a card table in your living room. Yeah. And we don't know what her business is. She was a management consultant before.

And if you're going into consulting, you don't need much money. Yeah. You need a computer and some consulting gigs. It's your services you're charging for there. That's the thing. So you don't have to have a lot. Now, so I completely agree with Christy. And it would be ridiculous to pay off the credit card debt and turn around and talk about business there? That's the thing. So you don't have to have a lot. Now, so I completely agree with Christy. And it would be ridiculous to pay off the credit card debt and turn around and talk about business loans.

That's just trading. That's just a dog chasing its tail. You're just trading one for the other. You're kidding yourself. You didn't really do anything. You just swapped hands. So what I would, the only thing I might consider, but you'd have to make a really tough case for it, and I would argue with you i'll

warn you ahead of time that let's say you had a business and you said all right i need ten thousand dollars worth of equipment there's no possible way not just to be optimal but there's no possible way to start without some inventory some equipment something and something out of $40,000. And you could show me how you can make $10,000 back in two months. Yep. And you have to make me believe you. And believe me, I'm going to push you hard on it, okay? Because it's what I would do if somebody who worked for me came in here and said, I want to spend $10,000.

And I would say, okay, when are we going to make that money back? Because that's the whole idea of businesses if you're going to spend money but putting ten thousand dollars on a five-year payout and calling that a business that's dumb that's just dumb so you would need an almost instantaneous break even to sell me on that idea but if you could do that i would say pay off the top thirty two thousand of your debt snowball put ten $10,000 in the business, and then two months later, you're debt-free. Yeah. That would be okay.

But you'd have to really prove it, and it's not, I want to open my business, and this is optimal. I mean, it's like you have a computer. I want a better computer. You don't need that. No, you don't have to have that. I want to be a photographer, and I already have a camera, but I want a better camera. No. No. No.

This is what I spend my life around Ramsey doing all the time. If somebody wants to do something, I say, well, make something of what we've got. Right. We have all these things, and will it be optimal? I know it would be optimal, but optimal doesn't equal profit. Optimal equals spending money. Yeah. And when you spend money, it lowers your profit.

This is a business equation here, people. So really really really good question you've got we don't have the nuance and the details of your situation but the the concept being here no debt know how no way start something and you are the secret sauce not the crap you would buy with some of this money i had a question Dave. You've been talking about no debt for over 30 years, and you still regularly get questions, should I take out this loan? It's not just new people either. It's not just people that it's their first time calling in,

first time listening to the show. Do you think that they think they're going to get a different answer? No, no. They want someone to say it out loud for them. Okay. Now, she could be new. Sure, sure. I mean, she could have just joined us on YouTube a month ago sure that's possible but the number of people that call in

go i've listened to you for five years and i'm thinking about getting a car loan you know and we're like no no you really weren't listening were you but we want to be snarky and sometimes we are but uh but but overall but what happens is is that they were listening and all this stuff kind of worked over here and then they had this new situation. And it's different. And it feels like it's different. It's different. I'm special.

Or I really know I shouldn't do it, but it's like I'm going to let those people on Ramsey's show be my conscience. They're going to speak into my head, the little angel on my shoulder going, don't do it. Right. Where all the devils are out there in the world going, yeah, it's no big deal to borrow money. You get the airline miles on your credit card. All that bull crap, you know. And so that's, but, you know, we get to be the angel on the shoulder sometimes. But, yeah, it is as if we were inconsistent or something.

Yeah. We're not. We get it all the time. Always get the same answer. Dan is with us. Dan's in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Hi, Dan. What's up?

Hi, Dave. How are you today? Better than we deserve. What's in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Hi, Dan. What's up? Hi, Dave. How are you today? Better than we deserve. What's up? All right, great. There's a bucket list item to check off for me. My wife and I have been on baby step two for one year. We started the plan last July with $106,000 in debt, making $89,000, not including our first or second mortgage. At the time, our first mortgage was $30,000 and our second one was $50,000, not including our first or second mortgage. At the time, our first mortgage was $30,000 and our second one was $50,000. By those standards, you teach us to put the second mortgage into Baby Step 6. So fast forward to now, we now make about $120,000 a year and we're over halfway through Baby Step 2 with about $47,000 left. the second mortgage is down to 44 000 which now

would have us put our second mortgage in baby step two we recalibrate things there because if the second mortgage is in baby step two now now we still have 91 000 in baby step two instead of the 47 interesting uh and only,000 on our initial mortgage, so that should be paid off by May of 2023. Sometimes the way to answer the detailed nuance to a wicked weird scenario, which this is, is to pan back to the principle that caused us to put the step in place in the first place. Kind of like, Dave, do I tithe on this little thingy over here?

Well, let's pan back and say the whole reason for tithing is giving, and God wants to teach us to be generous. He's trying to change our character and turn us into givers. Let's start with that as the principle, and then we can figure out if this little nuanced corner of this tithing question, just give. You know, just give. God's not going to be mad at you. Just give.

And so in this case we're gonna pan back and not be quite that snarky because i like the question it's very interesting it's an evolving situation fluid situation so i'm gonna pan back and say okay why did we say that if your second mortgage is more than half your annual income push it to six the reason we baby step six the reason we said that was it's going to take too long. You're going to be stuck in baby step two. If you make $100,000 and you have a $200,000 second mortgage, you're going to be stuck in baby step two forever.

Okay? So we pushed it to six and said, you probably want to refinance your first and second, roll them together, and then you've got a plan to get your home paid off, but you've got this monster. But if you've got a tiny little second mortgage, treat it like a credit card debt and get, you know, it's a mosquito. Let's smack it, get it done, and in there. So your situation has changed, which changed the equation and said now it's under half, the reason we said this was it's going to take too long.

And so the way we answer the question is, if we put it in baby step two now, because your situation has evolved, is it going to take too long? Then you can answer the question. And I don't care which one you do. Either one's okay. You can put it in six or you can do it now. The trick is don't get stuck in two so long that you quit, give up, and don't finish your get-out-of-debt plan. If you need to leave it over in six and roll it into a new first mortgage, fine.

Fine. If you can stick it over there and punch it in the head, be done with it, that'd be awesome too. But the whole concept was don't let it take too long. Good. Good question. Christy, good show. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. Christy Wright. You can't let it take too long. Good. Good question. Christy, good show. Thanks so much. Thanks for having me. Christy Wright, you can hear her tonight at 7pm. Go to ramseysolutions.com and get your tickets. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event,

product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramzshow.com. Thanks for listening.