The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Grow My Net Worth Without Confusing It With My Self-Worth? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 14, 2021

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Live Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is done, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about careers and jobs, author of the number one best-selling book, The Proximity Principle, and the new book, From Paycheck to Purpose.

He is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Samantha is with us in San Francisco. Hi, Samantha. How are you? Hi, I'm doing good. How are you today? Better than we deserve.

What's up? Well, I wanted to ask you guys, especially Ken, about possibly giving me some direction on where I should go career-wise at this point. I currently am in an electrical apprenticeship. It's actually the family trade, a bunch of electricians. But I'm starting to realize that it's not really for me. I'm a single mom, and so there's a lot of pressure when it comes to trying to balance that

as well as balance this career as well. It just seems as though I keep having these roadblocks, you know, put in front of me. And so it doesn't seem like I'm going down the right path. And because I'm starting to feel that way, I've been thinking about some other career options that might be good for me. And I just want to make sure that if I do change careers, that I do go down the right path instead of, you know, walking down another path and realizing that it's not for me again. Sure. What's the big idea? Is there a leading idea in the clubhouse right now?

Yeah, well, I mean, I have two ideas. One of them is actually your idea. I was thinking about being that I'm here in the Silicon Valley area, going to Bethel Tech and trying to get a certification with them to become a UX designer, because there's a lot of open jobs for that here. So that was one option. And then if nothing else mattered, and I followed my heart, it would be I would try to go do producing. I really like the idea of that I did a lot of stage management in high school, so I did a lot of the live production type management and background, back behind the scenes type of work. And I really do love that kind of work, but I understand that that would take me getting a little bit more qualified in the professional setting before I could actually make that a career.

Yeah. What does that look like? Just fast forward real quick. Take me up the ladder. I have a good idea of that industry, but you've got a better idea what would that look like if everything was just equal and we could fast forward you there you're making the money you want to make what would you be doing where would you be doing it yeah i mean i i love the idea of you know the producing live events um i thought a lot about doing professional stage management for a long time, but I don't think that the purpose would really be behind professional stage management. I'm in live theater, so I was thinking more like live events that help people,

you know, talk shows and that kind of deal. Okay, so I'm glad you gave me that specific. I want to encourage you on something. There is a path to get to that. And I will tell you that you're already qualified to do that. The fact that you've done some production work in the background, in your career background, you are qualified

now. If you've got the talent of organization and detail management, you've got some good personal skills and connecting with people, and you're a good coordinator is the word that's coming to mind, you can do that. And you can get in. If you're a good coordinator is the word that's coming to mind, you can do that, and you can get in. If you do a great job, you can do well.

In fact, I've got a friend who lives in the Nashville area who, now he's been doing this 25 years, who now gets called for just every L.A. award show that you can imagine. I see him on TV all the time. He's a professional stage manager. Now that's more, you know. Wow, that's very cool. Yeah, so I just want to share with you that that's possible, okay? So now it's about I'm a single mom. I want to get out of this trade.

That's not. Right. Being an electrician, that's kind of not my jam. I'm thinking about technology as a UX designer. I've got to tell you, I like the idea of you moving into a good, solid day job, okay, that takes care of you and the child or the children, and we've got some great stability, and then you begin to work live events on the side.

That's going to be some weekends, maybe a little bit of travel. But if you can travel some and get in that live event industry, and as a contractor, and we at Ramsey Solutions hire some, not many, but some live event producers, you can get in that way and begin to build it. And with that technology background and qualification, I think it gives you, I think it's both and. I think that'll be a really nice, stable path because you're going to have to build relationships over time and get in. And then once you realize I'm in and I can make the income I

need, then I step into that. So I think you've got either or. If you can make the connections now and get in the live event space and make what you need to make, I'd say go now. If you need to build up to that, then I would look at technology as a very safe day job. Brian is in Jonesboro, Arkansas. Hey, Brian, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Ken, it's an honor to talk to you you too um i've always had a low self-esteem and i recently went through a separation and divorce how do i throw my net worth without confusing it with self-worth well let me reverse that who builds a big net worth and what type of person builds a big net worth and confuses it with self-worth

i'm not sure. Someone with a low self-esteem. No, no, not at all. No, because low self-esteem is not, you know, you don't confuse net worth. If you have a high net worth and a low self-esteem, you're not confusing it. So that's not the case. The person that becomes, what we're saying is someone becomes wealthy and they become a jerk. Or they become power hungry or they become they think they're all that and so what they are is they're spiritually and emotionally psychologically shallow they have no spiritual depth to their life they have no psychological depth to their life and

let me help you with this a person who asks this question is not prone to that yeah the person i'm talking about would never ask this question they would never go i'm confusing my net worth with my self-worth i really i'm all that because i've got a million dollars you know that's that's that's somebody that made that confusion and that's a shallow entitled little jerk you know and whether they're a 58 year old little jerk or an 18 year old little jerk but But you're not going to have that problem. Brian, I just hear failure all over you. Yeah, you've been through such hell is what it sounds like.

Some tough stuff, and you're starting to question how valuable you are. And so I'm going to give you two practical answers to your question. Number one, you need to get around some people who know you really well, who can remind you of how valuable you are to them. Secondly, I want you to just do a little self-exercise and just begin to get to know Brian again and ask yourself, what do I do really well? What have people complimented me on in my life? I think I messed that up. I think he was saying I've got a low net worth, so I think I have a low self-worth. He is. I was flipping it. I went the other way. worth, so I think I have a low self-worth. He is.

I was flipping it. I went the other way. Well, I was going where you're going. Oh, my God. He's struggling financially and in his relationships, and he's going, I'm having a hard time seeing if I'm valuable because I don't have any money. Yeah, okay. Well, your value is intrinsic.

Your value as a person, your value as a human has nothing to do with your money. That's right. But that's a normal transaction when you've gotten the crap beat out of you like you have with the loss of relationships and everything else. So one other quick thing. I'm sorry.

I completely blew that. No, that's okay. But Brian, here's what I want you to do. I'm not apologizing to you. Oh, I know. But I'm just saying it's okay. But Brian,

here's what I want you to do. I want you to find some people to add value to. Volunteer. Go love on somebody. Go do something valuable for somebody and feel the

value that you can be of help to someone serve and that will raise your self-worth and it is independent of your net worth in an uncertain world being a good steward of your money is more important than ever while some circumstances can't be controlled there are items within your budget you can take charge of such as your health care costs. For nearly 40 years, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, has provided a budget-friendly means of sharing for medical bills when our members need it. Learn more by visiting chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget.

Christian Health Care Ministries is a Ramsey trusted provider. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jimmy's with us. Hi, Jimmy. How are you? Dave, I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. So where do you live? White Plains, New York. White Plains. All right. Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off, Jimmy?

I've paid off just over $97,000. Very cool. How long did that take you, sir? Just about five years. Love it. And your range of income during that time? Talking about pay after tax, 53 to start and finishing up at 78. Good for you. What do you do for a living?

I am a training specialist. I work for a large engineering company. So if your employees here at Ramsey have to take any of those computerized e-learning modules, I make those for the company that I work for. Ah, okay. Good for you. Very cool. What kind of debt was your $97,000?

It was a car and two student loans, one private, one federal. Ah, okay. So what put you on this Ramsey journey thing five years ago? So in my family, anytime you have a question about money, my cousin Steven, he's a little older than me. He's in his 50s. He's the guy you talk to about money. Quick background on him. He's in his early 50s, owns a mini mansion in North Carolina, free and clear, is retired already after putting two kids through college. So that's who you want to be when you grow up.

Gotcha. I had a question for him. Your big cousin Steve, yeah. Cousin Steve. So I had a question for him, something about my 401K back when I was new with my current company. So I called him, and I was asking him whatever it was that I had to ask him about the 401K, and he goes, hold on, time out, stop for a minute. Let's take a step back.

You just finished your master's, right? Yes, Steve. Okay, how much student loan debt do you have hanging out? I told him the embarrassingly high number of student loan debt that I had, and he goes, all right, have you heard of Dave Ramsey? And I said, actually, yes. And the reason that I have was because my mother actually had the exact copy of Total Money Makeover that I brought with me here today sitting on her coffee table at her house.

It's a great coaster. It really was. I think I used it a few times myself before I realized what exactly it was. So my apologies for that. It's all good. It's America's greatest coaster. So anyway, so he goes, read that book and then talk to me later and we'll see how you're doing. I read that book and it literally completely changed my life.

And I'm not just saying that to blow smoke, Dave. Really, I never thought about money the same way again. Wow. I like Cousin Steve. Yeah. He's my greatest promo guy. Way to go, Steve. That's cool, Jimmy.

He kind of handled it like I think you would. He was like, hold on, let's just go back. He just cut him off and said, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to talk to you about your 401k until you reach your mother's coaster. That's right. I love him. Get the coaster off the coffee table. And I don't think we even finished the conversation about the 401k.

From there on out, it was all about the debt. Yeah. And you got done. You got done. And five years later, here you sit. All of it's gone. Car, student loans, everything. Sitting with a master's degree.

Your master's is in what? Industrial and Organizational Psychology. Wow. Which he uses every day. Yes, he does. Good for you. Yeah. And thus you are doing that.

That's beautiful. I like it. Very cool. Very cool, Jimmy. I love it. How does it feel to be free? Oh, it's tremendous, Dave. It's like having a 400-pound monkey no longer on your back.

Absolutely. Absolutely. What do you tell people? You're a trainer. What's the key to getting out of debt? Ignore and drown out all the noise. As you're going through this process, I mean, I live in New York. I meet a lot of people that wear very expensive suits and sound like they really know what they're talking about when it comes to money.

I've had people try to get me into cryptocurrency. People try to get me into pyramid schemes. I mean, all kinds of things that we're going to take away from my total money makeover debt-free journey. And sometimes they make points that, like, make sense for a second, and then you're like, wait a minute, no, I listened to Dave Ramsey. That's what I'm going to do. So it's drowning out all that noise, staying in the course, and really just being focused on it.

Wow. Submitting to the plan. Exactly. And stick to the plan, stick to the plan, stick to the plan. Good for you. Very well done, sir. Wow. This is powerful. It is. I'm curious. Is there a moment you can look back to where you said, okay, I caught some serious momentum? Or did you just, from day one, you were a bull and you never let up?

The momentum, and this is where I think the snowball method is really, really effective. It was, I had one of the student loans was for $3,000. So that was easy. Cash. Then came the car. I had, I think, $3,000. So that was easy, cash. Then came the car. I had, I think, $11,000 left on the car at that point. Once I paid off the car, and now I had $280 from the car plus $30 for that other one, $330, which for me back then was a lot of money at the time. Now that I had that free to apply towards the largest debt, which was the largest student loan, that was the point where it was like, all right, now I'm really making progress.

Now we're really going to see this thing take off. Awesome. Wow. How important is that to experience that momentum in this journey? It's essential because if you don't feel it here, your head is not going to listen to what's in here if what's in here is not there, if that makes sense. Does it make sense, man? You're preaching. Somebody ought to tweet that.

That's phenomenal what you just said. That's really good. Very well done. Very well done. Congratulations, Jimmy. I'm proud of you. Thank you, Dave and Kent. Proud of Cousin Steve.

He'll be so happy because I'm going to show him the clip once this airs. That's awesome. He'll laugh for sure. I love it. Was he one of your cheerleaders as you went through this? Absolutely. He was. Of course, my family, mother, father, sister, they were all very supportive. But who I really

have to thank is the Ramsey community because they were my accountability partners. I mean, if you notice, I'm standing up here all by myself. I don't have a spouse. I don't have kids. There was nobody to really hold me accountable for doing all of this per se but when i turned on youtube three four times a week to watch the replay from the show just hearing the phone calls and and seeing the reactions and the emotion from people when they did their screams and just hearing all their stories that's what kind of held me accountable so i did this not only for myself but kind of also as what i felt was an obligation to the ramsey community so thank you to the entire ramsey community of listeners seriously from my heart to yours i

love it love this guy this is great what a what a powerful thing we got a copy of the legacy journey for you a new coaster for your mom's table and a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away so that can be a coaster on someone else's table. Hey, but it hangs out long enough, eventually gets read. I'm going with this plan. Multi-purpose. It's a long play. It's not a short game. It's a long game play, but I'm going with it.

It's working for me. Well done, Jimmy. Very well done. All right, Jimmy from Yonkers, New York. $97,000 paid off in five years, making 53 to 78. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

I'm debt-free! Yeah! Yeah! Woo! Yeah! I love it! That is so fun. I think that whole segment was tweetable.

Oh, I know. I mean, that screen rate, I want to tackle somebody, and I don't tackle anybody. He's ready to go. I mean, the sheer passion from this guy. How about the shout-out to the entire community? I think that's a really interesting point, that there's a whole bunch of people that we get the privilege to serve and and and in serving them they end up encouraging each other it really is the community it it's it's amazing you know all the people in ramsey plus and all the people have come to the events all the years all the people

that are on the facebook page all it's amazing to see that here's a single guy who shouted out all the other people he came in contact with on the same journey that's really cool and there's that it gives you permission to do stuff that the rest of the culture is not doing when you look around you go

okay there's about a bazillion other smart people doing what I'm doing and yes there's a bunch ofillion other smart people doing what I'm doing. That's exactly right. And, yes, there's a bunch of crazies out there in the toxic culture, but there is this oasis of humans that are engaged in transformation, engaged in doing the work, the hard work of change. That's right. And changing is hard.

Wow. Get yourself a community, even if it's on the facebook page uh or on the youtube channel get in community it's uh it's vital way to go jimmy yeah proud of you man good stuff way to go cousin steve i love it love it love it love it everybody needs a cousin steve most people don't have one though that's a privilege right there i feel like like we should get Cousin Steve on the line, James. I mean, wouldn't that guy be a great interview at some point? This is The Ramsey Show. Work doesn't have to suck. There's a reason you can't shake the feeling you were meant for more than just another J-O-B. 61% of people aren't even engaged at work, let alone doing work they love. That's why Ken Coleman, America's career coach and national best-selling author,

wrote his new book, From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love. And it's available for pre-order right now. If you're looking to change jobs, get hired, or trying to figure out the work you were uniquely made to do, you need this book. Ken walks you through the proven stages that landed him his dream job, and thousands of others. Plus, if you pre-order from paycheck to purpose today, you'll receive our Get Hired bonus pack, valued at over $100 for free. It includes the audio book, e-book, resume, templates, the Get Hired digital course, and more.

Pre-order from Paycheck to Purpose at Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Blake and Macy are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? We're good. How are you? Better than we deserve. Where do you live? We live in Dallas, Texas. All right. Welcome to Nashville.

And all the way up here to do a debt-free scream, how much have you paid off? We have paid off $66,147. Cool. How long did that take? About 15 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? So we started out at $133,000, and then at the end of the 15, it was $143,000.

Cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a mechanical engineer, and then at the end of the 15, it was $143,000. Cool. What do you all do for a living? I'm a mechanical engineer. I'm an escrow officer. You're a what? An escrow officer. Oh, okay. Cool.

Great. Very good. What kind of debt was this $66,000? It was about four credit cards. With that, we financed our wedding, our honeymoon, just about everything. Yeah, you name it, we put it on a credit card, a really expensive couch, and both of our cars also. So it was four credit cards and two cars. So you're just kind of normal.

Yeah, we were really normal. Okay, so you come home from the expensive wedding, honeymoon, and expensive cars are sitting in the driveway. How long have you been married? Almost four years. Okay, so you've been married a couple years okay so you've been married a couple years and you look up and say uh we got to do something different what what introduced you to ramsey how'd you get this stuff going so my sister and brother-in-law actually had paid off a lot of over 175 000 a couple years ago and it was thanksgiving of 2019 and we just found out we were pregnant.

And so I was just talking to her at casual Thanksgiving dinner, and I was just kind of like, well, we have all this debt, and we don't really know what to do. But I showed an interest in wanting to pay it off. And so she just very gently mentioned you and your podcast, and she was just like, this is easy to listen to you know on the way to work or while you're working out or whatever and so the very next day on our drive home um we listened to our first podcast and something just clicked blake has he was the nerd i'm the free spirit and he has always been good with money he tried to put us put us on

a budget right when we first got married and i laughed and um i was just like no but uh no but after listening i don't know it was just something about it was just easy to listen to you and just kind of get what we needed to you know to get going and then um it clicked and so that was thanksgiving and so january of 2020 we started executing our plan we're like okay this is what we're going to do you know the the baby, they, same sister and brother-in-law gifted us the total money makeover. And so we read that and, you know, like a week and then we were pretty gung ho. And then COVID happened a couple of months later, I was pregnant. Um, and we were very lucky that we kept our jobs and, um, you know, we didn't have to lose any income.

So that was a blessing. But, um, so COVID actually helped us because we didn't do anything. We weren't going anywhere and I was pregnant. So it was like, we weren't really going to go out and do anything anyways. And so,

um, that it made, it was initially a two year goal and we ended up doing it in 15 months. Wow. You blew through it. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just,

it was all the, the debt snowballs. It's just, it works. It gave us all the momentum in the months. Wow. You blew through it. Yeah. Yeah. And it was just, it was all, that snowball is just, it works. It gave us all the momentum in the world. What was maybe one of the most radical kind of get after it

intense things you guys did in this journey? So I think one of the things was saying no to everything. So like,

it was so hard that, you know, we're sitting there and all our friends are going to beautiful trips and everything or they're wanting to go to dinner or anything and we were just having like no i'm sorry we can't and it was just hard the fear of missing out type thing but once we got over

that and then i think the probably the one of the things was we were expecting our first child and so i wanted to go crazy with the nursery and and all the things, you know, that a mom wants to with their first kid. Well, that's unusual. No one ever does that. Yeah, and we didn't have any money because we were paying off all this debt, and so we didn't buy one piece of furniture for the nursery. Everything was given to us or hand-me-downs. I mean, we didn't have to go use any of our money for

our snowball. And it turns out two-month-olds aren't that picky about where they sleep. Right. Yeah. So that was, I think that was probably one of the hardest. Yeah, that's hard. That's a big deal. Yeah.

For sure. That's a big deal. Not decorating the nursery except with things that folks give you. That's a big deal. Yeah. I like it a lot, but it's a big deal. Yeah. Very cool. Good for you guys. Well, you just prove the difference in a need and a want the kid needs a place to sleep a want is everything you want around them they don't even know what's there

right it's all about it's all about mom making a nest and dad making a nest or dad making mom a nest or however that works but yeah it's uh it's real yeah so absolutely and people spend an amazing amount of money on this stuff oh yeah and the baby literally does not care at all not even a little bit not even a little bit yeah so way to go you guys all right what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is uh one of the things that i think is uh communication and collaboration but uh the main thing was the the budget and I think that every dollar app was just mind-blowing for us. We sat down every month and at the beginning of it, we assessed what we could do and then at the end of it, it was easy to say no. When the

category was zero, it's sorry. Then I would just say going into it knowing that mentally it's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term reward. If you go into it knowing that mentally it's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term reward. I mean, if you go into it thinking, oh, this is going to be a breeze. I mean, nobody really thinks it's going to be a breeze. But if you think that it's going to be easier than it really is, then I think people get stuck a few months in and they get frustrated and they just give up. And I think we just sat down every month and was just like, this is our goal. This is what we want

to do. And 15 months is literally nothing in the grand scheme of things. And so, and I mean, I'm so glad we did that. It's just, it's been, it's an amazing feeling, especially now having the baby. He's 15 months old now. And, um, it's just, it's a, it's a whole new world. I can't, I can't imagine us still having that much debt and also taking care of a baby. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, congratulations.

Thank you. Who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you? Definitely my sister and brother-in-law that got us on the journey. That got started, yeah. Every time we paid off a credit card, we'd send them a screenshot. Yeah, I like it. They celebrated us through and through. And then my parents and Blake's parents.

And even our friends and coworkers. Everyone was super supportive. They really were. That's cool. Love the journey for us. That's cool. So who all came on the trip with you? My parents and our baby is over there.

Yeah, okay. All right, cool. All right, your baby's name is what? Asher. Now, do you want Asher in the shot for this? Yeah, he, okay. All right, cool. All right, your baby's name is what? Asher. Now, do you want Asher in the shot for this? Yeah, he's coming. All right, cool. Very cool.

Good, good, good. We've got a copy of The Legacy Journey for you. That is the next chapter in your story for sure. You've changed your family tree. Way to go, you guys. Thank you. Excellent job. And a copy of the Totem Money Makeover for you to give away when someone at Thanksgiving mentions that they need some

help. You'll have a book you can hand them. Very good stuff. Blake and Macy and Asher. Asher's life has been changed by his mom and dad. Dallas, Texas, $66,000 paid off in 15 months, making $133,000 to $143,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! I love it. I love it. Well, at the break, we're going to interview Asher about the psychological damage of having been brought home from the hospital into a used baby bed. Yeah. You can just see the little guy scarred right there. He looks like he struggled.

Yeah. He looks like he's been neglected. The wallpaper on the wall was not right in that nursery. I'm just saying there's a permanent damage done here. Didn't have a brand new. Those parents should be ashamed. What do they call those things that hang over the. Thank you, Dave.

Papa Dave knows. Papa Dave knows baby stuff, baby. I've already Papa Dave knows the baby stuff, baby. I've already since forgotten all the baby stuff. Papa Dave's got all the baby stuff dialed in now, including the expensive nurseries, although I didn't write a single check for any of them. But I am privy to the process. You've toured all of them. I've toured all of them at length at various times of day and even into the evenings.

Yes. It has happened. So, yeah, that's – but, hey, same thing happened when the Ramsey kids were coming home a million years ago, or the Coleman kids. You got to have a special room, got to have a special thing. But we in America go nuts. What we spend on our pets would support Egypt. Oh, don't even get me started on that one.

I love my pets, and you love yours, too. Do. But, man, oh, man man what we spend on halloween what americans spend on halloween would do away with hunger for most of the people in america that have hunger issues by the way the kids these days dave are getting full-size candy bars i grew up in their old days when we had little tiny little ones half of a bite oh that's what's wrong with the world these days. I'm just saying.

It's just a spoiler. It's just awful. It's just awful. This is the Ramsey Show. Well, you're hearing all these debt-free screams, and you're thinking about fall stuff you've got to buy, like Halloween candy and jackets and sweaters. Christmas is coming up. Christmas sneaks up on people every year like they move it or something. It's always in December.

I'll just put Christmas on a credit card again. What do you think you are, in Congress? Hey, when you plan ahead with a budget, you can keep Christmas from getting out of control, and the best way to do that is with our world-class budgeting tool, EveryDollar. And you can sync up with that and go through Financial Peace University at Ramsey Plus with a Ramsey Plus membership. And EveryDollar, working along with Financial Peace University inside Ramsey Plus, gives you everything you want. Stress-free. You can get control.

You can be these people you were just listening to. Start budgeting with every dollar by texting BUDGET to 33789. Text BUDGET to 33789. Dan is with us in Hudson, Wisconsin. Hey, Dan, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thank you. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up? I just want to give you and Ken and your team a huge shout out. My wife and I recently became 100% debt free. Woo! Way to go. So we are super grateful for all you and your team do. My question is now on Baby Step 7.

Part of what we're doing, we're self-employed. We have a small business. It's to up the contributions for our IRAs for our employees. Oh, good. We currently have a simple IRA. We're matching 3%. And I was told that 3% is the max that we can do in a simple IRA. That's true. Okay.

And then would it be worth going into a 401k? And I was... How many employees do you have? We have six. Talk with your smart investor pro about this. The simple IRA is a 401k for small business, but it is very structured. It requires that you put in 3%, no more, no less, as a match. And it's 100% vested from day one for anybody that goes in.

The 401k could cost you as much as $5,000 or $10,000 a year in administrative fees. And across five or six employees, that seems like a waste. So it might be the way to do this is with a SEP IRA. You can do that in addition to the simple IRA. The SEP plan, the Simplified Employee Pension Plan, says any employee that's been with you more than three of the last five years, you are required to put into that the same percentage of your income that you put in for you.

That's why a lot of people don't use it. So it works really good for a solopreneur, like if I want to just dump a bunch of money into a retirement plan. But if I've got employees that have been with me more than three of the last five years and I put in 15% of my income, I have to put in 15% of their income for them. And so you're wanting to do that, so this might work really well for you. You know, you're not required to put in any amount, and you can change it year to year. So you could come up on the end of the year and go, hey, this year I'm going to put in 7% of my income,

and I'm going to put in 7% of everybody else's, in addition to doing the simple. And so the good news about it is it would give you flexibility. You don't have to do anything. 7% of everybody else's, in addition to doing the simple. Okay. And so the good news about it is it would give you flexibility. You don't have to do anything, depending on how your profits go that year. And you could decide, you know, you could do a little bit through the year and then pop it up at the end and, you know, jack the numbers up at the end of the year if you wanted to. So check with your SmartVestor Pro. If you're not working with one, go to RamseySolutions.com and click SmartVestor. Those are the people we recommend in the investment

world. It'll drop down a list of the ones in your area. You can pick one from that list, and they'll all be people that we have vetted and people that have the heart of a teacher. Very cool when a guy has six employees and wants to make sure he's taking care of their retirement. Brings up the old phrase, Dave. You said a billion times, if you live like no one else later, you can live and give like no one else. And this is the backbone of America right here. There's a young man. They've done the hard work.

They've become debt-free. Now he wants to pour into his employees. I mean, that's phenomenal. Yeah. That right there. No one requiring that. No, he's calling and asking advice. It's not a law that was passed.

It was not an executive order no it was not the irs looking into his bank account no it wasn't any of that stuff it was just a guy who did well and thought you know i want to share with the team that helped me get here yeah and um knowing that they could leave and take that money with them. They can at any time. That's the rule. But what a great heart. I love that. Robert is with us in California. Hey, Robert, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello.

Yeah, so my question is very related to Ken's book that he's been working on. And basically I have two job offers, both really good offers, but one of them is substantially higher than the other. And the one that's higher is working for a really big tech corporation that I wouldn't necessarily be super excited about. And the one that's lower is a job I'd be much more excited about,

but it's a lot lower. It's like $70,000 less. So I'm wondering what you have. What are the two numbers? It's like 240 total compensation versus 170. Doing what? Software development. For the tech corporation, what's the other option, the 170?

240 and 170. Yeah, but is it both tech jobs, tech development? Yeah, they're both software. One's a big company and one's not. They're both software development, but the lower one of the smaller company that's doing work that I think is actually interesting where I would be much

more excited to go to my job every day as opposed to making a lot of money. Exactly. Alright, so let's ask this question. For that company, you're more excited. Is there a ladder? What does it look like a year, two, three years down the line if you take the 170 doing the work that you're interested in? So they've definitely assured me that there's a ladder, but it's a little harder to find information on how much of a ladder there is because the companies, the lower salary one that I'm more excited about is only a year and a half old as a company so there's not a lot of

information on how the ladder's been for other people yeah what do you make currently you've got two offers what are you currently making i currently make about 130 so they're both they're both increases obviously one's a huge increase so yeah let me ask you this if if both of them were the same pay which one would you choose? Oh, I would definitely choose the smaller company by far if they were the same pay. So to me, this is the advice I give. Dave may disagree, and he wouldn't be wrong, but I have talked to enough people on the Ken Coleman Show and the Ramsey Show

that have taken the promotion or taken an offer that was more money, and they'll call me back and they'll say, I took it and I'm miserable now or I don't have the meaning. I wish I was doing the other work. And I think that you've got to remove the money from the equation because you're not going backwards on either. And you've got to say, what is it that I want to do? Why do I enjoy option two more than option one?

And if there is a ladder, ladder it seems that there is i'm always going to say follow your heart and do the work that you're excited about if there is a ladder and it sounds like there so that's where i would go because i think money's not enough to sustain you completely agree only i'm going to do a modified option one i'm going to go back in and go guys uh my heart is here this is what i want to do i love what you're doing i want to be plugged in i got this other offer for 240 help me figure out a way to come here yeah so i mean they probably they're not going to go to 240 i didn't say that yeah i didn't say you had to match it i just said help me figure out a way to come here and then they you know and it could it could be that they very clearly outline a detailed ladder on a calendar.

It could be that they offer you stock options in this startup that are worth a whole heck of a lot more than $70. Right, that's true. They could give you some points in the deal, man. You take you a couple deal points, and you take this job. But you go back in, and you just smile, and you just say, I really want to come here. Help me figure out a way. Right.

That's a great point. And then just let them squirm and start answering that question. You don't tell them what the answer is. And here's what's going to happen. A, they're going to give you more than $170. B, they're going to offer a ladder or something like that. And C, they may even offer you points in the deal. And none of those are on the table today.

And one simple question, shut up. Let the pressure fall in the room on the other side of the table. Gently, kindly say, I really want to come here. These other people are offering me $240,000. Help me figure out a way to come here. These other people are offering me $240,000. Help me figure out a way to come. And I promise you, it will not result in anything but more money in this conversation. It's a wonderful negotiating tool. It'll work for, it'll just, just, hey man, that phone call's worth $20,000.

Shut up. And this show's free. There you go. You don't get this anywhere else in America, I can tell you that. Ken Coleman, good hour. Thank you, sir, for having me. James Childs. This is James Childs, producer of The Ramsey Show.

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