The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Invest My Extra Money? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 31, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is the Dave Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I'm Chris Hogan, and hosting along with me this hour is Dr. John Deloney, and we are very excited to be able to talk to you and about the questions that you have. So here's the deal. Call us. Kelly is standing by ready to take your call. The number to dial is 888-825-5225.

Again, that's 888-825-5225. We're very excited to be able to talk to you and the questions on your mind. John, you are kicking off your own John Deloney show. We are in it, Brother Chris. You have become official. You're going to have new episodes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. That's right. And on YouTube.

And you can hunt down the show anywhere that you listen to podcasts. You're going to get real talk on life, relationships, as well as mental health challenges. That's right. We're taking live calls. It's a good time, man. That is very cool. And listen, if you're out there and you're feeling the chaos and the clutter of life and the emotions that it can bring, maybe even battling some depression or even disconnection,

it's a time for you to be able to get some clarity, get some guidance. It takes a real man and real woman to reach out for help, and it's good to have those conversations. So you can call or email John. I want to give you the number. The number to dial is 844-693-3291. That's 844-693-3291. Or you can email askj at Ramsey solutions.com.

Very excited for the new show. I know we've kicked it off today at launched and you've got to be pretty pumped up too. I'm excited, man, from a guy who has only listened to two or three podcasts pretty much ever. Not really, but almost.

Yeah. It's weird having a podcast. I hope everyone will subscribe to it. I'm not super certain what that even means, but they but that's what we need to do is get on the internet and subscribe to the YouTubes and the podcast. Well, I definitely want to check it out as well. You can let you all know. You can check out my show as well, The Chris Hogan Show.

You can get connected. You can go to ChrisHogan360.com to learn more about it. All right, we're ready to take your calls. We've got Tom on the line. And Tom from Indianapolis, how can we help you? Yes, thanks, gentlemen. I appreciate you taking time to take my phone call. Sure.

Yeah, I have a pretty unique situation, and I need some advice, I think, at this point. So I have a daughter who is 11 years old right now, and she's been through 16 different surgeries over the last decade. And she's got everything from closed syndrome to stage four Wilms cancer. She's relapsed three times. We've tried everything from chemo to radiation. So we're kind of at a place where we're out of options. And so she's in clinical trials right now at Riley up here. And we've been battling with this for like basically over a decade.

And so the issue is that it's caused, obviously, a lot of issues financially impacting us over the last 10, 11 years. And also has caused me to reset life in a sense. I had a wife who stepped out on me a few years ago, and so I had to reset life there. And then we had a lot of debt, uh, that occurred because of the medical situation, things like that, that has been ongoing. Um, I'm remarried today. Um,

and we've been married for about, um, a little over a year now. And, and so it's that part of life where we're restarting life again. And so I've been through the Dave Ramsey program in the past, but I have always been challenged because of this particular situation. And so on one hand, it's like I'm familiar with a lot of the steps, but it's just daunting because things that are somewhat normal, like the beans and rice diet, right, and not going on vacations and not, you know, doing certain things, I'm challenged with where is that balance in this kind of situation

because, I mean, when we're told by her oncologist that we're not really, like we're not really sure if she's going to make it to, like, Christmas or her next birthday, and we're told that every day, like, year after year. And it's just, like, good grief. Like, how do you not, you know, do those kinds of things where you can't really plan for the future, in a sense. Okay. Yeah, I'm speechless, Tom. First and foremost, you're talking to two like forget all the

money stuff for a second you're talking to a couple of dads too and so um a couple of folks who have two of our hearts running around outside of our bodies also and so um on behalf of dads everywhere i want to tell you that this sucks this is not the way it's supposed to be. And I hate that you're going through this, man. And you bring up a hundred good points starting with the hardest one is how do you even wrap your head around tomorrow when a doctor looks you in the eye and says this may be it today. This may be it the next day. It may be it the next day. So first and foremost, I want to tell you, Tom, I'm sorry, man. And our thoughts and our prayers are with you and with your family, with your new marriage, and with that baby girl of yours.

Now, Tom, I think my heart goes out to you. And I think, first and foremost, what you have to do is to almost reset for yourself. Nobody should ever have to process and hear the information you've had to hear and hear that information from doctors at any point. But I think as you talk about moving forward in your life and resetting, I think it is a matter of really acknowledging and looking at what it is you're going to do. What's your new normal going to look like. And I think that's a matter of taking some things day to day, but at the same time being able to give yourself some things to look forward to. You have spent the last eight to ten years kind of on hold and in this pattern,

and I think it's going to be important for you to be able to reach out, get connected probably with a therapist to be able to reach out, get connected, probably with a therapist to be able to process your emotions and what it is you're feeling. And as far as the individual side of being around some guys where you can be a man, you can be a dad whose heart hurts and figuring out kind of what's next. And it might be a matter of doing some marriage counseling with your new wife, uh, to be able to unpack and look at some of the old scars and things. So we don't let old hurt do new harm to your new day. And I think those are things that as you talk about them and you're upfront and open, it

gives you an opportunity to begin to process some things that seem unfathomable. Right. So I'll even go one step further. The last 10 years, um, Tom, your life hasn't been on hold. It's been in hell. It has been absolute hell. And to call it anything less than that is to not do justice to the situation you, your ex-wife, your new wife, and your baby girl are going through and the other kids you've got involved. I think the harsh reality, and I commit to always telling the truth. So the harsh reality you have, Tom, is that the doctors are telling you that your baby girl is not going to be with you much longer.

And so there is a financial reality to that. There is a relational reality to that. And so, as Chris said, surround yourself with a money professional. Surround yourself with a marriage professional. And surround yourself with a community of people that you can be whole with, that you can grieve with, and that you can flat be broken with. Because for the last decade, you've walked around and you've been the muscle and the iron and the steel, and that's going to crack in half if you don't have a group of people that you can let that out. That's so true. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. families all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting

health care costs whether they're anticipated or completely unexpected. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Carice had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had another expensive medical issue come up. They could have faced a huge financial setback. But thanks to Christian Health Care Ministries, the Olcheskis were spared from a ton of medical bills. As members of CHM, they're part of a group of believers who financially and spiritually support each other. CHM is the longest serving health cost sharing ministry and is a Better Business Bureau accredited charity. It's Christians helping other Christians, and it shared nearly $97,000

to help the Olcheskis. To be a part of Christian Healthcare Ministries, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Hello, everyone. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Chris Hogan and hosting along with me is John Deloney, and we are excited to take your calls. I want to let you know, I know there have been a lot of things going on this year. Your emergency fund may be getting low, but I want you to hear me loud and clear. No matter what happens, do not cash out your 401k. Yes, the government passed the stimulus bill earlier this year that lowered the 401k withdrawal penalties, got rid of it.

But I want you to hear me. Do not take money out of your 401k. Your 401k is not there for emergencies. It's not there to pay off debt. It's not even there to help your kids get through college. It's there for one reason and one reason only, and that's for your future. The only time you should even think about touching a 401k is to avoid a bankruptcy or a foreclosure. Let me repeat.

The only time you would consider touching your 401k with an early withdrawal is to avoid a bankruptcy or a foreclosure. And that's only after you've exhausted your emergency fund as well as other options. Otherwise, tighten up your budget, pause the baby steps, take care of the four walls, find some part-time work, but don't trade in your future for some quick money. And if you've already withdrawn money from your 401k and I've had some people call in on my show, The Chris Hogan Show and tell me so, well, it's time to turn it around and say never again. Never again will I cash out my 401k for a temporary emergency. And it's not too late for you to change your future. Your first step is to find someone that will hold you accountable and guide you in long-term investing. You need someone like a SmartVestor Pro.

Go to DaveRamsey.com slash SmartVestor, and we'll help you find a financial advisor in your area today. Again, that's DaveRamsey.com slash SmartVestor. You've got a great opportunity to be able to locate someone that can guide you. You can also find them at my website, ChrisHogan360.com. Click on the Dream Team button. Get someone in your corner that you can have a conversation with about your dreams, your goals, and to help guide you. It's so vital and so very important. All right, we're going back to the phones.

We've got Caitlin on the line in California. Caitlin, how can we help you? Hi, thank you for taking my call. I have a financial question where I'm going to be forced into more debt. My husband and I, we were doing really good. We did Baby Step 1, and we were doing Baby Step 2 for a while, but because of everything going on, we bolstered up our emergency funds to about three months versus just a thousand. And so we are now in a position

though, unfortunately, I will have to be going into a surgery and get medical expenses and my insurance does not cover it because I need a specialty doctor. So we're looking at about between $10,000 to upwards of $20,000, maybe a little bit more, of medical debt. in the sense where we had credit card debt and we started to fix it. We put in a consolidation loan with a very low rate to be able to mitigate interest. And we've been good on that. Don't have credit card debt now. And we have about 3000 left on our car, which is only like $150 monthly payment. And it's actually paid off until May. So we, we've been pretty good. And so my question is, we have this three-month emergency fund which

is about twelve thousand dollars and so we're kind of juggling do we just take on um the medical debt or do we liquidate potentially our emergency fund but we still will have debt anyway after we liquidate so we don't know how to balance this. Caitlin, I'm sorry to hear about the surgery. Obviously, when you start to get into medical and health issues, there's a lot involved emotionally, psychologically. So my prayers are out with you as well as your health. Tell me this. What's your old household income so our household this year we probably will break maybe a hundred thousand

dollars um i just had to leave my job no we should break more than that probably around 120 he's in sales so like it can fluctuate okay um but i was making 60 but I just left my job because of my health. Okay. It wasn't a good fit, so I left my job. But he has a job that's able to cover basically our basics, you know, roof over our head, any minimal debt payments. But you are able, from a health standpoint, you are able to work? Yeah, I'm looking at new jobs. So I don't anticipate for – I'm perfectly qualified. I will have a new job within the month.

I'm not worried about that. So I guess we're projected to do about 120 growth and maybe take home 70 of that. Okay. So what's your question? You want to know, should you use your emergency fund to be able to pay for the surgery? Um, I would say no, uh, because you're wanting to keep that cushion, right? Um, and you're not going to be able to have it outright. Is your husband's job stable? Um, it is stable. Like he will have it. It's just the influx of like how much money comes

in per month. I think the low months, he's doing a lot better now. Um, I think the low months were about 3,500 take home and his last month was really good at almost 6,000 take home. So, uh, just without, I had these studies jobs and, uh, without that, that you know we wanted that emergency fund for if anything goes wrong and to pay for like the beginning appointments of this medical office because it's like 700 dollars per consultation or appointment okay and you're kind of hoping for that do you all have any children um no and we don't plan on having children so we don't have a future expense okay and how long will it take for you to recoup from this surgery? Have you heard?

So it's going to be like, depending on this, depending what they do, it can take anywhere from a couple of weeks to a month. However, I should be up and walking after a couple of weeks. It just might, like I'm in, right now and probably after the surgery, I have to go once or twice a week to physical therapy. Okay. And you guys are currently, are you on your husband's insurance? No, so we actually both have individual plans because I needed a very good health insurance,

so I pay $500 a month, and then he also pays $500 a month for health insurance. Well, it's not very good if you paid extra to take care of your health and it didn't cover the thing that you needed. It is good, but they don't have the specialist at that hospital. And for what I have, you have to have that particular, like, very good specialist to go in to basically cut you open. But otherwise, all my co-pays are $10. Have you talked to them about a surgery cash option? Where I pay in cash and they lower it?

Yep. they lower it yep um and i've heard of of surgeries being done at 50 at 35 off the cost um a tremendous discount if you walk in and they will push you around and they'll say well you know say i want to speak to the hospital administrator and say i want a cash option they'll give you a um a like a in writing they'll tell you what the cash option would be and you may be surprised at how low you can get the cost of the surgery doesn't hurt to ask doesn't hurt to ask it really doesn't i used to do that when i didn't have insurance um i haven't talked to this yet there's not a chance in the world i wouldn't have that conversation all the the worst they can tell you is no the best they can tell you is no the best they can

tell you is yeah we'll knock 10 grand off if you pay us up right and even if caitlin if even if you hear no i would still only hear not yet that's right like that's that's the the thing there but you know prayers go out to you with this in talking about it obviously you're not dealing with something that is an elective surgery it is necessary um i want to send you to daveramsey.com so you can get connected to one of our insurance ELPs just so they're able to thumb through, look at this and understand what it is you're doing and the best option in approaching this. Whenever you're talking about dealing with your health, obviously we're not trying to

belabor anything or put anything off. The mindset around it is going to be, obviously, if you have to take on this debt to get this surgery, we want the mindset of attacking it and getting it out of your life. But you're going to have to be living as you're recuperating two weeks to a month. So, you know, you want to go into this with your eyes wide open. Please get with that insurance ELP so you can see all the – make sure all the I's are dotted, T's are crossed, and you can feel clear about your path.

This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Most people's money problems come from not paying attention. That's why before I spend a dime of my money on something, I do the research and make sure it's going to live up to what it claims. Recently, I got a great pair of sunglasses from a company called Shady Rays. When you're looking for sunglasses, it feels like your options are limited. Name brand sunglasses cost too much and the cheap knockoffs are ugly and really don't protect your eyes. Discovering Shady Rays is a game changer. With Shady Rays, you can count on premium sunglasses that protect your eyes and are affordable. They give people the best overall value in sunglasses. They also replace your shades with a brand new pair if you lose or break them from day one of your purchase.

And they guarantee your sunglasses for life. Plus, they offer an exclusive for Ramsey Show listeners. Go to ShadyRays.com and use the code RAMSEY for 50% off two or more pairs. That's ShadyRays.com, code RAMSEY. Hello, everyone. You are listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Chris Hogan, and hosting along with me this hour is Don Deloney. As we take your questions on life and money, I want you to know we are excited to talk with you, as always.

And, again, I want to remind you, if you are in the area, to come by. We'd love to be able to see you here as we do the show. We've got Baker Street Cafe over there. Miss Melissa is willing to help you and give you some of the baked goods that she's got. We've got our, obviously the bookstore over there where you can peruse and see the books and things that we have going on, but we'd love to be able to see you. And just, it's so exciting to see people live on the debt-free stage, celebrating their momentum and their focus. And just want you to know you can come by and do the tour and walk around at any point in time.

We'd love to see you. All right, we're getting back to the phones. We've got William on the line in Fort Collins, Colorado. William, how are you? Good. How are you doing, Chris and John? Thanks for taking my call today. Oh, buddy, we are focused and not finished.

What's on your mind? Awesome. So I just had a quick question about my investing. I'm currently on Baby Step 4, also while trying to fully save for a down payment on a house. My question is, once I reach my $6,000 max, as far as investing my 15% income, should I just keep the rest of that into mutual funds or is there something else that I can be, or is recommended to be investing into as far as retirement goes, or should I be putting that towards saving for that down payment on a house once I reach

that $6,000 max? Okay, so here are a couple things that we do, William. So in talking about this, we talk about the home down payment as baby step 3B. So that's after you get your fully funded emergency fund. What you would do is then focus on the home down payment. Once you have that in place, then you could move to investing. So it sounds like you were already investing on baby step four. Yes, sir. Okay. So in that mindset, as you look at this, it would be a matter of you determining, all right,

what's the range of home that I'm looking to do? We want a minimum down payment of 10%. I'd prefer you have 20. So you get avoid PMI, which is private mortgage insurance. But you looking at that and understanding, okay, how much would that 10% look like? And so you could pause the investing to get to that, or it's your call, but it's clearer and more simply just to get to that number and have it just over in the money market account. Okay. That makes sense. Just kind of get that down payment, save that for a little quicker than it would if I were to invest it. Right, and then here's the thing, William.

People have told me, well, Chris, it might be five years before I look to buy. Well, if that's the case, then maybe you look at putting that in a gross stock mutual fund. If it's going to be there for five years or more, but if it's the likelihood of you buying a home in less than five years, I wouldn't invest it. I would just sit it over in the money market account. Let it sit there. You know it's there. There's no risk being taken with it. And you can get to it when you get ready.

But that's kind of the mindset around that, in that flow and in that system. And so for people that are new out there, when we talk about baby steps, that's our road. That's our road. That's our roadmap. It's the recipe for how you can get from being eyeballs, up in your eyeballs in debt, to some freedom and amazing giving. Baby step one is saving $1,000. Baby step two is where you list out your debt, pay it off with the debt snowball, smallest to biggest. We're going to attack and get some momentum. Baby step three is where you have the fully funded emergency fund. I have three to six months of expenses sitting in a money market account. And then baby step four, five, and six, you're going to do these all at the same time.

Baby step four is investing 15% of your income. Baby step five is saving for college. Baby step six, paying off the house early. And then baby step seven, building wealth and doing the greatest thing you could ever do with money, and that's give. And so if you're out there and you're sick and tired of being sick and tired, I want to encourage you to get plugged in to this roadmap, to this process. It will help you change the game. You can go to DaveRamsey.com.

We've got Ramsey Plus, which is an incredible opportunity for you to get plugged in, to get community tools as well as tracker. All you have to do is text the word trial to 33789. Hear me. Text the word trial to 33789, and you can get jump-started over there into Ramsey Plus right now. Tools, tracking, as well as community and connection, I'm telling you, people, it's a game-changer, and it'll help you turn things around. All right, let's get to the phones. We've got Marissa on the line in San Diego.

Marissa, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Oh, focused and not finished. What's on your mind? I was wondering, I'm currently active duty, and I was wondering about buying a home using the VA loan versus renting and using the housing allowance to pay off that. Marissa, how long have you served?

It'll be five and a half years right now. Wow. Thank you for your service. What branch are you in? I'm in the Navy. Okay. And do you know, how much longer are you thinking about serving? I actually am getting out next July.

Okay. So next July. Okay, so next July. And so are you looking to buy in California or Colorado? Where are you thinking? Yes, around the area. Okay. As you get out, do you know what you're going to be doing? I'm going to school full-time, and I should still be receiving the housing allowance. Okay.

So you're going to go to school full time. Here's the mindset around it. As you look at this, I want you to be very careful, okay? I mentioned a couple things. The rates, I know VA loans are set up to be able to help our veterans, and, you know, I acknowledge it, but I'm going to tell you, rates, a conventional loan is going to be better than a VA loan, interest rate-wise, and it's not going to have some of the loopholes and fees associated

with it. But I don't want you buying until you're ready to buy. Okay? And so what I mean by that is, are you planning to be, are you staying in the California area? Yes. Okay. And how long do you plan to be in that area after you get out of the military? So my husband will be attending grad school and he'll be in school for the next three years.

Okay. And I'm assuming I'll get done with school in the next four, so probably the next five at the least. Okay. All right. So looking at that, and do you all have any other debt that you owe? We bought a car last year, and then we just have his student loan debt right now. Okay. How much student loan debt does he have? At the end of grad school, he should have about 60K. Okay. And is he in the military as well?

No, he's a civilian. Okay. okay all right so here's the deal i i tell people marissa you want to buy a home when the time is right people will tell me well chris the market is doing this or interest rates don't care don't care what i worry about is your positioning meaning are you? Because if you buy one before it's time, it's more of a curse than it is a blessing. That's right. It adds stress to your situation. So I would want you guys to get out of debt, build up a fully funded emergency fund, then save for the home down payment. And, you know, John, it sounds like a broken record, but the recipe works. And it's so tempting to be in the military and to think you're doing something patriotic,

to think, man, this is the easiest path. And what a conventional loan does is it puts a hurdle in front of you. You shouldn't get into a house unless you've got that 10% down, that 20% down. And it feels good to just be able to slide on in there, but all of a sudden you find yourself with real refugees. You're upside down in your own house. That's a scary place to be, right? No, it really is.

Save the money, do it the slow, right way, there's no shortcuts. And I know there's all these programs out there, there's no shortcuts, just do it the right way. Yeah, and listen, for people that are out there that are renting, renting allows you to time. It allows you time to either save up money, to recoup, regroup. It's not a negative. And so, you know, you got to be clear about uh it's not a negative and so you know you got to be clear about where it is you're going and what you're doing especially in the california market

where my goodness they charge you for air out there it's crazy and i've rented at some i rented the last few years the last two and a half years i've been renting so um it's it's a part of life i got two little kids and they had a great life yeah my wife had a great i mean we all did great and so um there's just seasons where you slow down save your money do it the right way there's no shortcuts the the tortoise always wins yeah actually marissa here's what i want you to do i want you guys to get over into ramsey plus um and uh text the word trial uh to three three seven eight nine i actually forget. Let's give it to him, Chris. Or that.

Let's give. Good call. Let's give Marissa. Let's give it to him. Let's give it to him. I like this. A year of Ramsey Plus. Good job. I'll get your debit card before we get done.

That's right. That's right. But no, I think that's a great idea, Marissa. I want you and your husband to plug in. Every dollar will help you guys from the budgeting side of it. But being able to look and get together on it. And again, thank you for your service to our country. But I want you guys to get on a game plan that's going to lead you to a destination worth traveling.

And you can do this, and we're glad to help. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hello everyone, Hello, everyone. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Chris Hogan, and hosting with me is John Deloney. We're excited to take your questions as well as your calls. Just want to remind everybody that John has got launched his first ever Dr. John Deloney show. New episodes every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday on YouTube and anywhere that you're listening to podcasts. You can find him at John Deloney on social media.

I want to encourage you to not only get plugged in with him, but also call in if you've got questions, relationship issues, things that are on your own mind as you deal with family or coworkers. It's a great opportunity to be able to have an outlet to reach out to communicate about what's on your mind and get some guidance, right? The worst thing we can do is to isolate and to compartmentalize. We need to open up, get the right kind of guidance, get people around you that care about you.

You need to call and check in on the show. All right. Let's get back to the phones. We've got, uh, oh, let's see here. We've got, uh, oh, some special guests on the line. I got Thomas and Marissa. How are you? Hey guys, doing well. How are you guys doing?

Oh, we're doing great. It's great to be able to hear you guys. Uh, tell me where you're calling from. Denver, Colorado. Denver, Colorado. Denver, Colorado. Now, you guys aren't just on here because you have a question. You're actually on here to make a statement and a celebration. This is a debt-free call, correct?

Absolutely. We are having a terrible time hearing you guys. Can you guys get closer to the phone? Yep. Okay, there you go. You're good. guys. Can you guys get closer to the phone? Yep. Okay, there you go. You're good. Marissa, can you get closer? Yep, here I am.

Fantastic. All right. There we go. So tell us, how much debt did you guys pay off? So $107,000 in 12 months. $107,000 in 12 months? Oh, in 20 months oh 20 in 20 okay 28 months uh what was uh the 107,000 what kind of debt was that we had 81,000 in school loans and 26,000 of car loans wow okay was the student

loans was it both of you one of you tell us uh that was both of us and the student loans, was it both of you, one of you? Tell us. That was both of us, and the car loans was both of us as well. Okay. So what happened? What caused you guys to get serious about attacking debt and not just letting it hang around? Well, you know, biggest thing was when I was little, you know, I used to hear Dave Ramsey's name and listening to Dave Ramsey in the truck when I was riding with my dad. Right. And, you know, a co-worker told us a little bit about his debt-free journey, and he actually gave us the book Total Money Makeover. Uh-huh.

And, you know, I ended up reading it one night. It's probably one of the only books I've read in one day. And I decided to go from there. Okay, Thomas and Marissa bootlegging Total Money Makeover. Paying it off, baby. Next morning he said, we're going to unfair savings, and I knew that it was the real deal. Yes, you guys got serious about this.

So what was the biggest sacrifice, Marissa, you all made in this journey? I think the biggest sacrifice was just really prioritizing what we wanted to do. We had to say no to going out as much and some trips here and there, but we really prioritized throughout the two years. That is good. Thomas, what about for you? What was your biggest sacrifice? Yeah, I think biggest sacrifice was just, you know,

I loved seeing like our savings account growing. So I think biggest sacrifice was just, you know, we're in this for the long run here. We can sacrifice a couple of things here and there, going out and on a few trips here and there. Right. Just for the long run for both of us, for our marriage and just for our long-term financial journey. That is fantastic. And what was your household income?

So we started off at about $140,000. Okay. During that time, I took a pay cut and dropped down to about $110,000 household income. And then we ended around $200,000 towards the end. Wow. Okay, so you guys did a little bit of a roller coaster there, but you attacked it, you got intentional. Who were your biggest cheerleaders throughout this process?

Biggest cheerleaders was definitely my coworker, Josh. So shout out to Josh. But also family and friends. We had a lot of friends from our church group supporting us as well. That's fantastic. Well, we're seeing the pictures of you guys. I'm so proud of you. So I want you to do it.

Yes, I want to count it down. I want to hear a debt-free scream. We've got Thomas and Marissa in Denver, Colorado. Had paid off over $107,000 income range fluctuation from $140,000 to $110,000 to then now $200,000. Eliminated student loan debt. Eliminated two cars. Thomas and Marissa,issa count it down let's hear a debt-free scream here we go three two one great job you guys i'm gonna tell you something hearing that that never ever gets old because what you have are people that were committed and focused and intentional on making sacrifices to make some great things happen. Man, and here's the thing.

I don't know why it works this way, but it always seems to work this way. When you're making sacrifices, you may see in your debt-free journey, you may see your income dip. You may see your relationships get rattled, but he dropped what forty thousand dollars and then suddenly finds it surge another 70 right um his marriage is great his kids are going to come into the world and never know six figure shackles oh yeah oh i like the way you put that they're never going to know it they're going to have two uh two parents who are free as a bird who are investing in them both with their time and their energy and their money. It's awesome.

And typically, people will think, oh my gosh, it's not possible. I can't do it. Yes, you can. And it's just a matter of zeroing in and being committed to it. Not just making a one-time decision, but it actually becomes a daily decision. You have to keep yourself motivated. I love it. I love it. I love it. I'm proud of you guys, Thomas and Marissa. I'm proud of you. Yeah, you all have done a fantastic job. Well, I want to share the scripture with you today. This is from Titus 2.7.

Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching, show integrity and dignity. The quote is from Donald McGannon, leadership is an action, not a position. That is absolutely powerful. As you look, and as we talk about leadership, we help businesses all around the country. We've got the Entree Leadership brand. If you are a leader or a manager or someone that's trying to grow as an owner, I want to remind you to get plugged into that brand so you can start to see and understand

what it is to do and the exact steps to be able to take. You don't have to lead alone, and it's important to understand what you can do to get some guidance. Chris, just taking this moment for a shout-out, what's somebody who taught you leadership? Who's somebody who's leaned into your life and taught you how to be a good leader?

Without a doubt, I would say Coach Kevin Donnelly was my head coach in football, which was an amazing man just to be able to see how he not only connected with us as team members, but watching him interact with his coaches. He empowered people. He believed in you. And it was amazing just to see how he could connect with everybody because he had a genuine care for people. He just cared and loved people.

What about you? Man, I've got so many, including my dad and several of my bosses. One that pops into mind is Randall DeMint. Another one that pops into mind is John Will Thompson. Guys who, like you said, were both great husbands and they were great dads in their own right. But then they leaned over and said, I'm going to invest in you, John, inside and outside of the workplace. And they quietly pulled me aside, held me accountable, said, hey, that's really a stupid way to say that. Or that's not what leadership looks like.

Leadership is the hard, hard stuff behind closed doors and nobody's watching. And the investments those men put in my life, man, I could just go on. Chris Melson, Jim Stewart, I could just go on for days and days and days with folks who've leaned into me and, and taught me what leadership looks like. Dude, you and me both, as I start thinking of coaches, Ernie Horning, Dave Campbell, Bruce Owens, Bill Cronin. I mean, you can just go on and on, but it's awesome when people take the time to invest in you and that might be a conversation. It could be having a cup of coffee. So I want to encourage you out there.

One of the things to do is whenever you kind of feel like things are tough for you, make sure you take an outward look. Find some people to invest in. Find some people. You can mentor up or down. It doesn't matter the age or the stage. It's just about the heart. Well, listen, I want to thank producer James Childs, associate producer Kelly Daniel. I want to thank all of you, America, for tuning in. I want to thank Dr. John Deloney for hanging

out with me. It was good to hang out with you, buddy. And also with you, man. Thanks, Chris. Absolutely. And until next time, remember, stay up, stay focused, stay positive. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. On your smart speaker, you can add our skill by saying, Alexa, open the Ramsey Network skill. From there, you can listen to all our shows. Ask Dave money questions like, how do I invest my money? Or what is the debt snowball? Find out more at DaveRamsey.com slash smart speaker.