The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Justify the Cost of Therapy? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: December 31, 2020

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Hey guys, this is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Dave and the team are out spending time with their families for New Year's, but we'll be back soon to help you take control of your life and your money in 2021. In the meantime, we've put together some of the best clips from the show for you to enjoy. This is the best of the Dave Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Chris Hogan. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Well, Chris, about all I can think of to say is, hey, 2020, in case I didn't already think you sucked, you continue to suck. I just heard a second ago that my friend charlie daniels passed away 83 years old and uh apparently had a um a stroke of some kind uh an incredible music icon incredible man of faith incredible patriot and um he and hazel are just absolutely wonderful wonderful people they're wonderful

members of our community here in nashville and um are well thought of among everyone in the country music business do anything for anyone oh yeah big heart generous and uh kind and uh very opinionated uh and he's always right on his opinions because i me and him agreed on all that, I can just tell you. I'll miss him. Yeah, no, he's a humble man, extremely talented, and a proud American. But as you said, Dave, an incredible music icon, and definitely will be missed. If you don't like the way I'm living, just leave this old country boy alone. Leave him alone.

And there's a whole bunch of us come from that cloth we're cut from that you can do whatever you want but leave me alone yeah and uh we get real tired everybody telling us what to do that's got these opinions about stuff and i'm getting sick and tired of the constitution being shredded among whatever issue you people want to decide that you're on your high horse and do, and he was the guy that stood up against that. So good people, good people will be greatly, greatly missed, that big tall hat. So our thoughts and our prayers go to their family, and, of course, we'll be reaching out to them when we get off the air today. But pretty incredible, pretty incredible loss for country music community and for America in general.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Georgia starts off this hour. Julia is calling. Hi, Julia. How are you? Hi, good afternoon. It is an absolute pleasure to speak with both of you. You too. How can we help? Forgive me, I'm a little bit nervous, but the reason I'm calling is because I've been listening to you for a while. I got your Financial Peace University and I've been watching those videos and actually I've watched them twice now to see if I've missed anything the first time around. And I've been

taking advantage of all that. I'll get right to the point. My husband and I are on Baby Step 2. We have two debts that we're working on, one of them being some child support that is in arrears. Now, the state has ordered that they're in arrears. This was done about 10 years ago. But to be honest, he doesn't actually owe them. He is not interested in fighting them and anytime i bring it up um to see about paying you know to to fight them he gets very angry he gets very upset

he kind of almost turns on me and i just let it go um we continue to pay as we're supposed to as the state has ordered but i'm wondering wondering, am I missing something? Is there sort of man code or something that I feel like I've stepped somewhere that I just shouldn't be? I don't have any idea. I mean, you might be. There might be something to the story you don't know and I don't know. But no, it's not man code. I mean, if it's child support and he doesn't owe it, you fight it and you push back against it and you win and you don't pay it. he doesn't owe it, you fight it, and you push back against it, and you win, and you don't pay it. If he does owe it, you pay it.

It's really not much in between. But hanging around and paying something you don't owe and being mad about it for decades is not, I don't get that. That's not man code. And I don't either. And it was, in the baby steps, it would actually come first, the first thing to pay off. But in my heart, I feel like if I pay that off first or if I start throwing chunks of money at it, and then we do, all of a sudden he wakes up one day and says, well, hey, no, let's go ahead and fight it. Well, they're going to look at us throwing chunks of money at it and say, well, you know, it's going to be a lot.

How much is it? What's the outstanding balance? $15,000. Okay. And Julia, how long have you and your husband been married? It's actually 13 years today. Okay. All right.

So you guys have been married 13 years. You know what's jumping out at me, Julia? The singular pronouns you keep saying. You say I and I if I throw money at it. And so you guys aren't working together on your money, are you? No, we're not. Yeah. That's a very sensitive topic.

The whole money situation is very sensitive, and he just tells me to take care of all of it. He makes the majority of the money, and I take care of it. Yeah, that's unfair to you. I manage it. Yeah, that's unfair to you. And see, that's the first caveat. Not being aligned in it and being able to communicate about it. He's shutting down altogether with money.

And now here you're standing and looking at this, and this is a battle that he needs to lead on this child support thing. But you all jointly together are doing this. This is something that impacts your future. Or decide, I don't want to fight it. I'm just going to pay it. Right. And then you chunk money at it and don't worry about it but but i don't want to see the problem is you don't know what to do because you're afraid if you pay extra on it he's going to wake up one day well he needs to be part of

the discussion so he doesn't wake up one day yeah and so yeah this is um i mean what i would do on this is i think the two of you probably ought to sit down and talk to somebody like a good marriage counselor i'm not saying you're about to get divorced, but the engine's running rough, and it needs a tune-up. And, you know, I mean, Sharon and I spent some time with a marriage counselor, and it saved our lives. Kept her from killing me. Well, we've definitely been down some rocky roads, he you know he used to be an alcoholic he quit all that he's been dry for over two years now so we've definitely hit some rocky roads and i think it's wonderful news and i just i feel like you know what here's the thing did he did

he do 12 step he just quit cold turkey he just quit okay it's an act of his will i told i gave him an ultimatum okay all right well i i think the way maybe this sounds, I don't know. I'm just a guy. But it's not guy code to answer your question earlier. But maybe the way it sounds is I'm so proud of you for being dry for two years. And the completion of your healing in these areas is for you and I to be on the same page with money. And I'm tired of carrying the weight of the household on my back. And I need you to man up.

OK. And I need you to step up beside me and say, I want you to walk with me, be my man. I don't want you to carry it all. I'm not going to dump the dump the bills on on your side of the desk. We're going to do this together. But I'm tired of doing all of this by myself. And then that leads into the conversation on the other. But really, the child support thing is a symptom of what you called out, Chris, I'm not working

together. Yeah. And here's the deal. He's got Dave old emotions attached to that, obviously to a damaged relationship. It pisses him off every time it comes up. But it's not part of Julia's fault. And she's part of the solution. I agree. Counseling's the way to a damaged relationship. Well, it pisses him off every time it comes up. Absolutely, but it's not Julia's fault. And she's part of the solution. I agree.

Counseling's the way to go. Yeah, get some coaching and just how to talk to each other. But it can start with, we've come a long way. Let's finish this journey. Yes. Because I'm tired of doing this by myself. That's good. My wife says, I'm tired of carrying out the trash.

It's your turn. She says stuff like that. She is feisty. Yeah, she is that. She is. That's a good woman. You take out the trash? You dadgum right I did.

I'm scared of her. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. you've worked hard to make your business successful. Blood, sweat, tears, and prayers. Because as a business owner, you are the secret sauce. And your company is only as strong as you are. So what happens if a key ingredient is missing? And what if that ingredient is your health, resulting in expensive medical bills? Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, presents health cost sharing. It's different from insurance in that Christians help other Christians to meet their medical expenses.

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Learn how CHM has served small business owners just like you by visiting chministries.org slash budget. chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. you're listening to the best of the dave ramsey show we'll be back soon with more live content dr john deloney ramsey personality just started his own podcast john i'm sure you guys have been announcing that while i was gone tell everybody about it we started a live taking calls uh podcast and we are um shooting a few times a week and it just everybody's surprised that launch number one has been doing really great and we've had some exciting calls and we're keeping it going yeah so people wanted to call in about life about life

mental health relationships mental health marriages i. I mean, there's no end to the calls we're getting. It's really been neat. Yeah, a lot of folk out there needing guidance. So if you want to participate in that, you can email askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com

or leave a voicemail and they'll set up a live call with you as a part of the show. It's like a radio show, in other words, as a podcast at 844-693-3291. 844-693-3291. This show is very hard to get in on,

but if you email or leave a message there, they'll get back with you and let you be a part of the Dr. John Deloney show, originally named, of course. Scott is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Scott. What's up, man? Hello, Dave. Hey, Dr. Deloney Show, originally named, of course. Scott is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Scott, what's up, man? Hello, Dave. Hey, Dr. Deloney. First of all, Dave, congratulations. Dr. D is such a great addition to the lineup. Well, thank you. We agree. Thanks, brother Scott, and your check is in the mail, brother. All right, waiting for that, since I'm on BS2 right now. So anyway, to my question, my wife and I, like I said, we're on baby step two.

We've got a ways to go. We're currently cash-blowing two kids through college. My parents, who are 80 years old, never saved for retirement. Dave, I called in last year. You helped me, guide me through bailing my parents out of a financial crisis and then you sent them through fpu and set them up with a financial coach they fully completed both and you also sent me boundaries which i read last month they called me to tell me not ask me that they needed me to co-sign a loan for them

because my mom wants cosmetic surgery they can't afford. At 80? Yeah. I don't even want to ask. Well, I could make it exciting, but it has to do with dental work. Oh, okay. could make it exciting but it's uh it has to do with dental work oh um so i told them i was not going to dismiss the principles i live by to enable their behavior uh especially after they ostensibly learned the same thing i did um anyway my birthday was august 30th it came and went

without a call or a card my father now spends time posting passive aggressive stuff on Facebook about how children are supposed to treat their parents. Now, I know I'm right by not co-signing, and I'm not sure from a relationship standpoint what I'm supposed to do here. I wouldn't let them starve or be thrown out on the street, but this is a want, not a need. We're all angry, obviously. One of us is right, but we're at a stalemate. Yeah, Scott, I hate that for you, brother. So here's the deal. When it comes to what's the right thing to do financially,

of course you know that you're right. And when it comes to the right thing to do relationally, of course you know you don't need my validation, but you're right. You drew a boundary that was best for you and for your family, and you held them to it, and I'm proud of you for that. And you're getting to see what the other side of a boundary looks like when someone pings off the walls or the fences or the boundaries you drew, and they choose to react immaturely. And the hard part is you love your parents you love your mom you love your dad individually and together and they're choosing to make their own path as adults are able to do and that hurts and that stinks and you're gonna have to grieve that but the reality is they're 80 they're allowed

to do whatever they want to do and i would suggest you turn off facebook and don't listen to the nonsense and you continue to be mature and you continue to be adult and yes you send them the cards on their birthday because children honor their parents and you make sure they are included when it's appropriate but you're gonna have to grieve this part of it man because that just stinks i'm sorry i hate that for you the only the only recompense you've got is this there's only one kind of relationship that requires money to be transferred. It's called prostitution. And so if your relationship is money dependent, you're in that class. You don't have a relationship, in other words.

Because that's not a relationship, that's a transaction. Agreed? I agree. I'm just saying, it's the only way you have to get your brain around and honestly it's chapter 2 I believe maybe 1 even in boundaries that says you're not crazy you remember that chapter?

you're not crazy because when you get this ping off the boundary like John described it what you start to feel is that you're crazy like you did something wrong am I a bad son? am I being a legalist? am I being being too hardcore and so forth and it's like uh no scott you were just asking how to deal with this well yeah i mean nobody wants to pick up the phone at this point and so here's the

deal call them in and check in how's everybody doing you can be the mature grown-up when they're and if they choose to respond in immature ways, then you can begin to develop new boundaries against that. The challenge with boundaries is we feel so good when we finally draw and we forget that boundaries do have consequences. And boundaries do have emotional and feeling, you know, responses. And sometimes people don't respond well to our boundaries and it hurts. See, a boundary is when someone feels like, boundaries need when someone feels like they're entitled to something of yours

that they're not entitled to. And you tell them that. Almost always there's a response of anger. But I think we get so excited that we're drawing a boundary that we feel good and we do it and it's like, ah. Yeah.

And we forget that then people come up against it and say, well, then you're not my son or I don't love you or if my son really loved me. If I can't do cocaine in the living room, Dad, then I just won't let you be my dad if you're going to throw me out for doing that. Well, I'm sorry. We don't do cocaine in our living room. Or it's going to be your fault that my kids are going to fill in the blank.

Right? So people get to respond and they're going to respond. Your grandchildren are going to be hungry because of you. Because of you. Right. Giving this 36-year-old without a job for two and a half years any money you know this kind of thing and so it's your fault somehow it's not your fault man um it does hurt legitimately it does it breaks your heart and but i think i agree with john i mean just call him and have a conversation but here's the thing

don't try to call them and fix it no there, there's nothing to fix. They can't. There's no fixing this. They're just going to get over it, or they're not. Yeah. And I always want to encourage people to be the mature party. Be the respectful party, the relational party. But also protect yourself, and don't keep putting yourself in harm's way. Yeah, exactly. I hate that for you, Scott.

It's awful. Theo is with us next in Chicago. Hi, Theo. How are you? Hey, Uncle Dave, Scott. It's awful. Theo is with us next in Chicago. Hi, Theo. How are you? Hey, Uncle Dave, Dr. John. How are you both? Better than we deserve, brother. What's up?

And before I get to my question, I'd love your advice on it. I just wanted to honor both of you for a minute and say how appreciative and grateful I am just for the wisdom and the biblical insight you guys share. Well, thank you, sir. How can we help today? It's just part of you guys. You're very nice.

I really do appreciate that. Thank you. So my wife and I were on baby step six. We have about $200,000 left to pay on our house currently. And we've been kind of kicking around this idea, praying and kind of looking at different directions. The Lord would have us go with our future. We have two little kids. And even pre-COVID stuff, we made the decision we wanted to homeschool our children,

and Lord willing, a few more down the road. I'm up against the clock. Go ahead and tell me what your question is. I'm looking at buying a lot of land, like five to six acres, and then doing a construction to permanent loan. I just wanted to get your insight and kind of best practices or advice on that. The land price can be wrapped into the cost of construction in one loan. It's a temporary loan to be taken out with a permit to be replaced with a permanent loan

when the construction is complete. And you mentioned that. So you will get a construction loan when you also are approved for the permanent loan. And the permanent loan gives you a letter called a takeout letter, meaning they're going to take out the construction loan when the construction is complete. And so it's just effectively, at the end of the day, ends up causing you to have simply a mortgage. So you've got to make sure you're getting rid of your old house. It will cause this to happen in the process somehow.

But two of my kids have built houses this year uh without construction loans they pay cash but the um but in both cases or in one case they sold their house in order to be able to pay for it and so you just line all that stuff up and hit the end domino and it goes We'll be back soon with more live content jonathan is with us in poughkeepsie jonathan welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave can you hear me absolutely Absolutely. How can Chris and I help? Thank you so much for taking my call. I just had a question for you.

So I'm in a sticky situation. I was working at a job after the past couple years during the pandemic, and I left that job in hopes of getting another job, which had higher pay, more lateral mobility, better benefits, and so forth. And I didn't sign a contract to that job yet, but I was told that I was going to be... I already got approved for that job, and I didn't break my contract to go to that job. So when the contract for the other job was over, I basically, I'm out of a job. So I'm working kind of minimum

wage. And I have a retirement plan for $12,800 for the past couple years. I was putting in like minimum. And my question is, should I take out some of my retirement plan and pay off all my credit card debt, my student loan debt, and put something aside? Or should I keep that in there and just kind of ride it out until I get the full-time job? All right, Mr. Jonathan. How much debt do you have, my friend? $12,000.

So I have $6,000 in credit card, and I have $1,500 in student loan. Oh, but $12,000 in the retirement. In the 401K. Yeah. And I also, just to add, I also have $1,500 in student loans. Oh, but $12,000 in the... In the 401k. Yeah. Yeah. And I also, just to add, I also have $10,000 in savings that I've saved from during the pandemic

just in case I was going to be in a sick situation, but I don't want to spend too much of that because that's what I have, if that makes sense. Okay. And do you have any kind of income coming in right now as you're in this whole position? Yes. So I'm working minimum wage, which is $15 an hour. Okay. And do you have any kind of income coming in right now as you're in this whole position? Yes. So I'm working minimum wage for this 15 an hour. Okay.

At least 30 hours a week, but I would be at least 450 gross. Okay. And up to 40 hours, but I would be between 450 and 600. So can you stay current on your bills with that? I can. Good. I can, but yeah, I just don't know because, just sorry about that, but just because of the CARES Act, if I were to take out retirement, then I wouldn't be charged a penalty. That's why I brought that up.

I know, Jonathan, and trust me, Dave and I have heard this. They removed the 10% penalty, but the CARES Act is not caring about your future. And what that means is you're still going to be responsible for the income taxes on that within two years. So I would not advise you to pull money out of the 401k at all. If anything, I'm going to have you continue to be in conserve mode. But once you get some stable income coming in, the first place I want you to go is to this $10,000 that's sitting over here in savings, buddy. And I love your heart and your mindset. You want to attack the debt.

Just don't steal from your future to do it. So here's the thing. You're in a temporary hold mode, and your head is above water. The only time we tell people to pull out of retirement is to avoid bankruptcy or foreclosure, and you're not facing either. Really, at the end of the day, the only reason you're pulling out of retirement here is to not use your ten thousand dollars right and that's really unwise so if you want to hold the 10 and stay in conserve mode till you get re-employed at a better position fine uh but no i would not

cash out retirement it feels right on the short term but as a long-term play it's a really bad move plus it's made you're making the decision based on a temporary set of circumstances, not a permanent vision. That's right. And Dave, I'm going to ask you something. I'm going to get you to attempt to explain to me what in the world Congress was thinking. Okay? Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. You just said Congress and thinking. I did. I did. But help me understand. Why would you get rid of the 10% penalty to crack the door on people raiding out their future, but you're still going to be obligated for the income tax side within two years? I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question. Well, I want to understand.

Well, like I could help you do that. No. So, see, you have a different set of values you actually think that they actually were trying to do something where i'm old all they i've ever seen them do is try to look like they did something okay that's all they want to do they want to look like they did something right and this looks like you just oh we were a big help we screwed you well you screwed up your whole retirement but we're from congress and we're here to help which is really ought to scare the bejesus out of you when you hear that you ought

to just melt in a little pile what a world what a world when you hear that so yeah no i i you know politicians are really all about appearances yeah you. You know, we came forward. We were there for you during COVID. But then they didn't read the 2300-page bill. And so then when the implementation comes out, you've got the whole PPP loan debacle. You've got this debacle. You've got people not paying off their student loans who are able to

because they have a temporary reprieve on the interest rate. Oh, Lord Jesus. Instead of using the reprieve to trillions of dollars of unpaid, unread documentation. It's astronomically stupid, but that's kind of like expected. So, all right. William is in Cincinnati. Hey, William, how are you?

Good. How are you today? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I have worked many, many hours, like two jobs my entire career. I'm 65 now and have no retirement plan. But I have about $1.8 million right now. But part of that is in cash because I sold some property. At least half of it's in cash

and i'm getting ready to sell a manufacturing business i have uh we have an agreement of after taxes i'll get a 1.1 to 1.2 million in addition to this 1.8 yeah and I have no debt and no mortgage. Just wondering right now with coronavirus, it seems to me that companies are not doing that well. I know companies I know are struggling, but the market's going up crazy. So I've listened to you a lot, and I know you like to be aggressive in the market, and that's the way I've been. But just wondering with the current situation, what you would recommend. Okay. Well, to start with, let's just dial back here and say, you got $3 million.

You got retirement. Touchdown. Way to go, man. So how much of this money did you inherit? Are you a trust fund baby, or did you earn all this? No. Earned it all. A hundred percent? A hundred percent.

Wow. America's wealthy all inherited their money. Bull crap. Here's William. Okay. William, way to go, man. So proud of you. So listen, here's the thing.

You're 65 years old. You can screw this up royally, and you'll still be okay. You got $3 million. So relax on the pressure on yourself to be like a perfect investor and perfectly anticipate. You can put it all in CDs, which I would consider screwing up royally, and you still can probably make it until you die with $3 million, can't you? Yes. Okay, so we know we can do that.

Now, everything from there is gravy on the biscuit. And you've been pretty good about getting gravy on your biscuit dude you've done a good job so i'm 60 i'm right behind you i have 100 of my wealth invested in real estate that is paid for zero debt and in growth stock mutual funds across the four types that I teach other people to do. I actually do what I teach people to do. I know it's a novel idea, but I actually do it. And that's where 100% of my wealth is, other than the fact that I own Ramsey Solutions. But aside from that, the investment wealth that I have is in real estate and in mutual funds. I have not pulled a dime of it out during covid i have not put extra in during covid uh i am in the midst of developing some real

estate i'm not building another building next door and crap like that so i'm dumping more money there than i am in the stock market but it's not got anything to do with covid it's got to do i got a concrete hole over here it's sucking cash so uh but the uh uh you know what i'm saying so that it's just i think you're fine pick out some good mutual funds to invest or if you want to do another business buy another business and run a little while apparently you're good at that but william do not say you don't have a retirement plan my friend you got a plan a safety net and four parachutes you're good to go buddy exactly yeah retirement plan does not have to be in a 401K. That's right.

A huge freaking pile of money is known as a retirement plan. You did so good, brother. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. you're listening to the best of the dave ramsey show we'll be back soon with more live content dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today on the Dave Ramsey Show. You can now download the Ramsey Network app. If you didn't know, there is a whole Ramsey Network. Rachel Cruz, Ken Coleman, Christy Wright, Entree Leadership, Chris Hogan, Dave Ramsey Show, the Borrowed Future Podcast. They're all in one place. And any other things that we were to launch would be there as well. The Ramsey Network app is free, and you don't struggle to find one of us.

You can just click on your Ramsey Network app, and it's all right there, and you can control it. We've completely updated this thing. It's a new iteration, and the reviews have been rave. So check it out. All right, Ryan's in Massachusetts. Hi, Ryan. How are you? Good afternoon, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate it. Sure, what's up? My question is, do I have too much in my reserves? I don't know if I am too focused on saving,

and should I be focused on other areas. You have more than six months of expenses? I do, actually. Why? And the reason why I have that is because I'm a consultant. I do IT recruiting as a consultant. So my job is not as steady as a full-time job. You know, it's one day here, next day I could be let go.

So my mindset was... What is the chances you're going to be gone six months without an income? Zero? That's a great question, and probably very slim to none. Yeah, so six months is fine. Anything above that I would put towards my other goals. And I was wondering, in a sense, with my other goals right now,

what we do is me and my wife, we put 10% of our paychecks into our 401ks, and then we also have a, we've got our IRAs and other various tools that we are putting our money towards as well. Are you debt-free other than your home? Yes, we are. Okay, cool. That's what we call Baby Step 2. Baby Step 3 is the six months.

Baby Step 4 is 15% of your household income going into retirement. So if you add up those IRAs and the 10% you're doing over at the other, does that equal 15%? If it does, you've hit baby step four. I wouldn't do more than that. Baby step five, as you say, for kids' college, if that's applicable. If you don't have kids, you move on to six and pay off the house. And so I would limit my – I would take anything above six months, throw it at the house or the kids' college, or some of both,

whichever one you want to do. I would limit my investing to 15 percent of my household income until i got my house paid off and i'd throw everything else at the house and just rock it that way laurie is in kentucky laurie welcome to the dave ramsey show how can dr john and i help hi guys how are you it's so good to be talking to you you too what's um thank you so i'm listening to you guys religiously for several months now my question today is about justifying the cost of going to therapy while wanting to put all of my extra money toward debt and baby step two um so just a little background i used to go to therapy

after my divorce in 2015 but i haven't been in about three years and i think it'd be beneficial to start going again but um you you know, my insurance has a $30 copay per visit. If I see a psychologist, that's still like an extra 60 to 120 bucks a month probably that I'd be spending on that instead of paying off my debt. What's your household income? I make about $72,000 a year. Okay. And what do you want to still work on in therapy? Yeah, what do you want to go to counseling for sure so um i have some lingering issues from the divorce still that i i see play out in in my life still today and in relationships and um that in anxiety are the main two things what are they um trust issues um fear of being left um in a relationship things

like that because i didn't instigate my divorce. It was my ex that did. So those are the two main things off the top of my head. So when somebody can articulate, here's my challenges, that's one of the cornerstones of what counseling does for us, is it helps us rake the yard and helps us move all the soil and the mess out of the way so we can actually get a snapshot, a picture of what's going on in our heart and head, you're able just to articulate it for me. So what would a counselor do?

And by the way, I'm a huge proponent of going to therapy. What would a counselor do that a close friend that you cultivate relationship with that you're vulnerable with or a mentor from your local church or in your community, would they do for you that they wouldn't because you've identified the core issues somebody somebody left you high and dry totally hosed you and now you don't know how to trust them but more importantly you don't want to trust yourself so you articulated that that sets off all of your internal fear alarms which is real your disconnection alarms which is what we've we've decided to turn into a diagnosis and make a medical issue called anxiety, right? And then you just get anxious for a while and that makes you depressed. So you've laid all that out for me.

What is a counselor going to give you that a close vulnerable friend won't? I think I'm probably looking for like coping mechanisms. So, you know, when, when these issues pop up in my daily life, like things that I can do to re, you know, kind of retrain my brain and things like that. So I don't think the way that I think the negativity that I think that seems more beneficial to me from like a medical professional than just, you know, you know, chit chatting with a friend about it and getting, you know, kind of basic advice from a friend like that. I think that's really like the core of what I'm looking for. What is your academic training in?

What's your degree in? I have a Bachelor of Science in Communication. Okay. Because you're completely, I'm thinking you need to give therapy. Yeah, yeah. You got this so wrapped up. I mean, you sound like somebody does this for a living. Well, thank you.

To be fair, I have a lot of good friends in my life who have given me a lot of good advice. It's just not getting me what I need out of it, you know, so that's why I'm here. I mean, you really are able to articulate it at an amazing level. Right. Thank you. So I'm going to tell you two hard things, and you can disagree with me, and you can say, Deloney, I think you're an idiot. And I'll say, hey, you got what you paid for. So the first thing is this. You're going to have to decide.

You're going to have to look in the mirror, put both hands on your bathroom counter, and you're going to have to look in the mirror. And you're going to have to say, Lori, I'm moving on. And I'm going to not make anxiety, I'm not going to make trust issues my identity. I'm not going to make that who I am. I am going to become X. And then you're going to have to get somebody in your life to walk alongside you. And you can pay for that.

There's a million people out there that will take your money. As Dave pointed out, you are articulate, you are smart. You're going to have to decide that this is an identity because this isn't a task thing. This isn't a series of skills things. You know those skills. You know how to breathe through when you get anxious. You know how to call somebody who's close to you when the alarms are going off. You know those things. And so if you want to pay somebody to go do that, that's going to be part two of this question. You make $72,000 a year.

If you need to invest in your mental health it's foolish absolutely not to absolutely here john let me ask you about this and see if laurie i'm just playing i'm learning here um in my mind i worry about um not laurie as much but just in general sometimes people like they just want to hang out with a counselor and they just go year after year after year after year and don't seem to get any better yes so if i were laurie i would say okay i'm going to budget 10 sessions and i'm going to be done right but the goal being that i've got the rest of the tools in my belt to be done right and i'm going to budget whatever number session but it's not it's not this is not you don't want to do this year after year after year after year no it isn't right so yeah laurie you're going to go to a counselor and you're going to say,

you're going to go to a psychologist, you're going to find a marriage and family therapist, and you're going to say, here's the deal. I know exactly what it is. I know here's the challenges. You got 10 sessions to walk me out. That's exactly right. Or whatever. And I want a series of tasks and skills that you're going to teach me.

We're going to do this together, and then I'm out. And if they say, well, you know, then you go to the next counselor. And there's going to be somebody who's ethical and integrous. You have to go back to the chiropractor every month for the rest of my life. No, thank you. You don't. You're supposed to freaking heal me. That's right.

And healing is both cracking my back and teaching me the stretches and the strength-building tools that I don't have to see you again. So the greatest counselor I ever went to when I sat down, her first statement to me is, my goal with you is to work myself out of a job to see you again. So the greatest counselor I ever went to when I sat down, her first statement to me is, my goal with you is to work myself out of a job. There you go. And I said, that's the person I want to see. That's what I'm after.

And yeah, this is because the thing is, there's always going to be pain associated with this past event. It just should be diminishing, and it should be that you have the tools to work it. And that's what your community should be for. Yeah, so make sure you're plugged into a good church as well, and maybe it. And that's what your community should be for. Yeah. So make sure you're plugged into a good church as well. And maybe get a lady that's 10 years older than you, 20 years older than you,

that's as articulate and bright as you are to talk this through with as well. But, yeah, I think I would go. But I would just put a limit on it and say we're going to be done after this. And in your own mind and certainly in the mind of the council. Investing in your heart is never a bad ROI. Exactly. Exactly. That puts us out of The Dave Ramsey Show mind of the council. Investing in your heart is never a bad ROI. Exactly. That puts us out of The Dave Ramsey Show in the books. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show.

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