The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Live Life After a Terminal Diagnosis? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: April 9, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney, and we are a part of the Ramsey Network, and we are your host this hour. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. We'll talk about your money. We'll talk about your emotional and mental health.

We'll talk about your job. Are you just working a J-O-B? You want to make more money? You want to get that shovel bigger so you can get out of debt faster? You want to actually work on purpose and enjoy Mondays, well, that's what we talk about on the Ken Coleman Show and Dr. John Deloney helping you on all things emotional and mental health relationships. And we'll talk about your money as well.

888-825-5225. Let's start it off with Amanda in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Amanda, how can we help? Hey, guys. Oh, my goodness. Thank you so much for taking my call. It's such an honor to speak with you guys. Well, the honor is all ours.

What's going on today? Okay. So I want to make this as concise as possible. I am 33 years old, and I have a really rare terminal illness that is in the, essentially what I've been told is kind of the end stages. And really, at this point, I'm kind of outliving the timeline that doctors have actually given me, which is amazing. And, you know, I'm still believing that the Lord could heal me, but realistically, I feel like my body is failing. And I have grown up with the Dave Ramsey principles.

I'm out of debt. I got to live my dream job in ministry and do all the things. But I am kind of right now unsure and feel like I'm in kind of uncharted territory as far as what to do with finances in the present day life and how to set myself up well, not knowing kind of, as I call it, like, terminal without a timeline. So, like I said, I'm out of debt, and I have, because of some disability back pay and some different things, I have some money. And so because of my illness, I wasn't able to like withstand the cold of Colorado winter.

So I came down to Florida and lived for what I thought was kind of going to be the ending, like last six months of my life. And I'm still here. But I, I don't know kind of how to navigate. And yeah, so I just wanted to kind of get some perspective on that. Well, Amanda, just your telling of your story is giving us all perspective on our own lives. I don't know that there's a person in the United States that's listening to this that didn't just stop for a second

and turn the radio up. And so thank you so much for being brave and for telling us about that. And from the bottom of my heart, I'm heartbroken for you. And your attitude and bravery and way you are making meaning of this

is an inspiration to me personally, to all of us, is how do you stare what we all know is coming, right? How do we stare it in the face and also be able to recognize and find beauty in every day and we get to live our dream job and, hey, I'm going to go six months and ride out the last few months in Florida,

a place I want to be, and now what do I do? So thank you so much for sharing your story with us. So it sounds like there's two parts to this. Number one is the personal, and the second is the financial. When you say you want to know what to do with your money, explain that a little bit. Are you wondering who to leave it to? Do you have enough money to get through treatment? Tell me what your money concerns are.

Kind of all of the above. So I, like I said, I was actually kind of in a not really feeling like I was debt free and that kind of thing. But then once I kind of navigated through like disability and different things, and now I get a small amount of disability each month. I guess for me... Do you have enough money to pay your bills? I do, yeah, I do. Are you single?

Do you have anybody that is a dependent? I'm totally single. My mom was a single mom, and so really she's the only person that I'm connected to. Yeah, so I guess the thing is I have enough money that I could live for a pretty long amount of time, I think probably longer than I can. Um, but I guess it's just that fear of spending it like frivolously, um, you know, just living, you know, without like, I've always been a hard worker and I've always like been self-sufficient. And so just to like, not have a plan. And I don't know, I guess that's what I'm asking is, is I feel like the

day room way is to always have a plan. And I don't know. So your plan in your heart and mind, you know how to make a financial plan. Um, honey, you've got enough money to get you to the end of the ride. And so your goal now is not like debt free your goal is not everyday millionaire that's not your goal your goal is to slide in to the end with no tread left on your tires in a safe and responsible way obviously but your your last months your last year can be about service can be about visiting people that you want to visit, can be about walking dogs. It can be about anything you want it to be because, quite frankly, you're literally an angel that I'm speaking to right now. And so it's surreal to have outlived the outlived right they gave you a short deadline and that's you grieved

it and then you went to you set off into your ship for your last ride and then the ride went all the way around then you landed back at shore now you're kind of you don't know what to do right and so right well i started a blog called terminal ain't terrible because i'm like just gotta live the rest of my life the rest I can. Love it. So I want to hear what you want to do. Is there people you want to go visit?

Is it serving the least of these? You sound like a person who is so committed to other people. What are the things that you want to do? You get a rare moment. You get a rare moment that many folks won't have, which is I've got a clear heart and a clear mind and I'm financially okay. And, but I, I know the end is near. I know it's coming. What do you want to do? Yeah, well, I've done a lot of writing. Um, I, um, you know, I, I listened to Ken's radio show

and kind of was like trying to figure out like a job with like writing and creating a blog and monetizing it but i think like perspective wise that was a little bit like time wise not gonna work um amanda here's what i would tell you number one we're we're gonna be praying for you as john said you inspired us listen you need to decide you want to leave some money for mom if you don't have a will, get a will. Kelly will connect you if you need that. But I would decide how you're going to live. And it's about relationships from here on out.

From here on out. Not jobs. It's all relationships. And I love that you're writing, but it really is about what you want to do. This is you leaving your mark. We're honored that you called us, that you shared this story. Amanda, make it count. This is The Ramsey Show. Your number one wealth building tool is your income. For business owners, this comes as no

surprise, as you're used to putting in extra hours and watching your bottom line. That's why Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, is a great option for those who are faith-focused and budget-conscious. CHM is not health insurance. Rather, it's a health cost-sharing program. It's not harder, but it is different. To learn if CHM is a fit for you or your business, visit chministries.org slash budget. The Ramsey Show continues from our Ramsey Solutions Worldwide Headquarters in Nashville. So excited that you've joined us. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney,

and we're taking your calls this hour on your life, your money, your relationships, your mental, emotional health, your work, that advancing, making more money, whatever. We're taking that call for you. 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. When it comes to life, I don't know if there's a bigger life change than buying a home or maybe getting married and having a baby. And when that change comes at you, there's a lot coming. You're thinking about a lot. And you need to make sure

that you're thinking about the right insurance coverage. Those big changes are overwhelming, but it would be even more overwhelming if you find yourself in a situation where you and your family are in a hole because you weren't covered. If not having the time or energy is what's keeping you from getting the right insurance coverage,

use one of our endorsed local provider or ELP insurance agents to help. ELPs are independent agents that shop a variety of insurance options to find you the best option. And then they explain all the technical lingo so you know exactly what you're getting for free. All you have to do is text the word insurance to 33789. Text the word insurance to 33789 to get connected with an ELP and get the coverage that you need. Text the word insurance to 33789. Let's go to the City of Angels, Los Angeles, California. Nancy joins us on the line there.

Nancy, how can we help? Hi, it's an honor, you guys, to speak to you both. Well, the honor's all ours. How can we help? Well, I'm calling because I'm in a bit of a conundrum. I'm 46 years old. I'm a single mom. And I am about to start Baby Steps

3B, but I am concerned because I don't have very much saved for retirement. I do have a pension, but my dream is to someday own a home, And while I'm, you know, cash flowing my daughter's college as well, I'm just kind of wondering what should I do? Should I begin to save for retirement and just kind of not be as intense in terms of saving for the down payment? I know it's going to slow me down.

Or should I just focus my efforts in saving for the down payment and make sure that when I am ready to purchase that home that I can pay it off before I retire? Why are you cash flowing your daughter's college? I'm sorry? Why are you cash flowing your daughter's college? Because I don't want her to, you know, be in the same situation that I was in. I mean, I had a lot of student loans and I just wanted to make sure that she, you know, set up and that when she graduates that she doesn't have.

So I'll let Ken talk through the money part, but I've seen this with parents over the years working in colleges and they end up making a trade unintentionally. And the trade is, I don't want my student to have student loan debt because I remember the pain of that. And so instead of investing in their retirement, to pay off or having to figure out another college option that may be cheaper, less prestigious, et cetera, they assure that mom's going to have to move in and that kid's going to have to pay for mom in old age. So there's a 100% chance that you're going to have to retire. There's a 100% chance you're going to get old. And there is a million options other than having to cash flow your kid's college. And it ends up just being a reverse burden.

It's going to be a different one, but it's still going to exist there, if that makes sense. And so I'll pass it on to Ken. I just want to put that out there because I hear and see parents do that all the time. Your priority right now has got to be making sure you've got a home, making sure you've got retirement, and then working to figure out a solution for your daughter in college. Yeah. Nancy, you're a great mom, first of all.

Oh, my gosh, yes. You've just got a huge heart, and I understand why you're doing what you're doing. But John's absolutely right. This is not your burden. And if you walk the baby steps out, okay, and you know the baby steps. So you're in the 3B, which has kind of developed over time, right? The baby step four is 15% toward retirement. And then we move towards the college and all that stuff.

And so you're just in a situation where you're behind the eight ball there, and I think you feel that burden, and you shouldn't feel the burden. I think you and your daughter are going to figure something out. What I want to know is, what's your income? About $105 a year. $105. Do you have room for advancement there, or do you feel like you're, I mean,

tell me what your prospects are as you see them. I do love my job. I'm very happy doing what I'm doing. There is, over time, you know, the opportunity for my income to increase. How much are you putting towards your daughter? What's your monthly spend on the daughter's education? Not very much.

She understood from the very beginning that she had to stay here in California, and she's doing state college. And roughly a year, I pay about $2,000. $2,000? $4,000 a year for her tuition and books because her father does help. Okay, so you're putting $4,000. That's not very much. Okay, that's good.

That's really good. I'm glad to hear that. That is good. But again, I think what John said is right. I mean, what we want to see you do is really begin to get on your retirement. She can earn $4,000. She can earn $4,000. I'd like to see that $4,000 going towards, again, if you want to save for the house, that's fine. But you need to be on, if you really want to buy. How long have you been renting, by the way? I'm curious. Since forever. I didn't really discover dave ramsey until about three years ago yeah hold

on a second i don't want you to feel guilt over that i hear tremendous guilt and shame over that that's not that's not a bad thing nancy i want to set you free from that the reason i asked is it's not a sin to rent when financially you're not in a position to buy a home and you're not and i love that you're going after Baby Step 3B, but I also want you to be looking at your retirement portfolio, and that was my next question. So we've got to keep moving here. But don't feel guilt over that.

Yeah, I've rented for years and years. I just recently bought, so it's all good. Yeah, you're not wasting money, Nancy. Now, where are you at retirement to this moment? What do you have saved for retirement? Well, like I said, I do have a pension. And as soon as, I mean, I didn't really know very much about investing. I have about, I don't know, I would say about $30K in annuities.

And I stopped that completely once I decided to follow the steps. So I haven't really invested a whole lot and that's why I think I'm feeling this sense of panic and I keep telling myself, well, there is the pension, but I know that that may not be enough for me. Don't be panicked. I thought you told me you were 46 years young. Did I remember that correctly?

That is correct. Come on, let's hear it, Nancy, for 1974. I'm 46 as young. Did I remember that correctly? That is correct. Come on, let's hear it, Nancy, for 1974. I'm 46 as well. So, Nancy, I don't think I'm old, so I promise you I don't think you're old. So, number one, no more panic. No more guilt and shame over rent. Can I get an amen, Doc? Yeah.

And no more panic. And listen, listen, listen. No more guilt and shame over parenting. Yeah. No more guilt and shame over the relationship that didn't work out. You got this. No more of it. So, Nancy, here, real quick, we've got to run through some things.

Have you met with one of our SmartVestor pros? Not yet. You need to. Go to RamseySolutions.com as soon as this call is over. And as Dave has taught us, and we say the same thing, I want you to interview three, four, five, until you get one that feels like they definitely have the heart of the teacher and you've got a connection with them. I want you to sit down and let them see your stuff and say, I just

called the Ramsey Show and here's where I am now. I've got a little bit of panic and I know I need a plan. And absent of a plan, the brain goes wild and then we get panicky. So I want you to get with a good SmartVestor Pro and begin to map this thing out.

The $4,000, we need to bring that back in, and we need to either put that towards Baby Step 3B. Let's look at your current 401K, whatever you've got going on at work. Let's work towards that. But I want you to sit down and figure out what a real retirement plan looks like, and I think you're going to go, okay, I do have time. I can be really gazelle intense now at this level too. And I can catch up. It's not too late.

And there is an entire culture built around making moms, especially single moms, feel like you are a perpetual screw up. You've done everything wrong and you'll continue to. That is a lie. You're a great mom. You're in a position now. You're not too late to turn it around. You have turned it around.

Now it's getting the right people in your corner to get down this new path. You're on it, Nancy. You're rocking and rolling. I'm so proud of you. Yep, take your time. Take a deep breath. The house will be there when you're ready for it.

This is The Ramsey Show continues from Ramsey Solutions Headquarters in Nashville. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. So grateful that you have joined us. It is your show, America. And therefore, we have a phone number for you to jump in. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Joe, who joins us in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Joe, you're on the Ramsey Show. Hey, Ken. Hey, Dr. John. How are you guys doing? We are having a blast. What's it all about for you today? Okay, so I'm 23. I just graduated college in May, and I'm actually a personal finance teacher.

It uses Dave's high school curriculum. Oh, great. Thank you. My question is, I have $12,500 left on my student loan, and I do a monthly budget, as I should as a personal finance teacher, I guess. Yes. But I have it planned out that I'll be debt-free by the end of summer. So end of August, that's how I have it budgeted out because I'm still living at home with my parents. So I'm able to save up a lot of money like that.

I've already paid off like about $20,000. Good for you. My question is, though, since they are in deferment until September and there's all this talk about the possibility of the debt being forgiven, I'm not planning on that, but would it be wrong of me to put my money in the savings account that I've budgeted every month until September, in case it happens, then once September hits and it doesn't happen, I just pay that $12,500. Because my next step would be buying a house, and it would just be an awful feeling in my stomach if I could have had $10,000 gone, I could put that towards a house. Yeah, you know, that's a very logical question, John.

And Joe, I'm going to tell you something. There was a point in my life where it was a possibility that I was going to be able to dunk a basketball. At least that was the thought. No, no, no, it never was a possibility. I'm making my point here. And I don't think it's a possibility that the government's going to pay your loans off. I just don't see it happening.

I think it's one in a million chance it happens uh but to answer your question answer your question straightforward it's not wrong you know but that's not what we're going to recommend i don't think it's morally wrong it just puts yourself in a temptation to if you put that aside and you stop the plan a plan that you're going to execute in just a few months at the end of the summer, it creates all levels of temptation that my colleague is far more qualified to talk about the psychological there. And so that's why we're never going to recommend that you do that, but it's not morally wrong. Joe, here's my heart on it. You're a smart guy.

Is that correct? I think so. That's like the impossible question. I know. I set you up here so you are a smart guy you wouldn't be a finance he's like uh no job i'm a moron hey so at the end of the day where i struggle with this as a guy who me and my wife have what seven degrees between us we had six figures of student loans and then I started using student loans to consolidate

cars and credit cards. I went bananas with student loans. Here's the thing. Nobody tricked me. I didn't count the cost. I didn't sit there and add them up every semester and see how deep the hole was.

I didn't know to do that. So was I kind of duped? But here's the thing. I signed my name to a piece of paper. And that paper said, hey, if you'll help me get through college, I'll pay you back. And so for me, this is an integrity question. And you are somebody who has a blessing in that your parents and you get along.

You're allowed to stay there and save up this money. And there's something in my soul that wouldn't sleep right knowing that I waited on the government to bail me out of the choice that I made, an integrity decision, that I signed a piece of paper saying I'll pay you back because you helped me get through school. And so you have the ability to work really hard and be debt-free on your own two feet in a few months. And there's a part of me that, as a guy who's walked alongside students for so many years, what I'm going to tell you is you're going to have your head held high, brother. And if you pay it all off in August, in September, they say, hey, we're waiving 10 grand. You're going to go, you're going to turn around,

and what you're going to do is like most Americans should. You're going to get indignant. You're going to say, wait a minute. I just worked my butt off to complete the agreement that I signed, and you're just going to wipe it. And then you're going to say, well, so it is. I stood up on my own two feet, and I paid it off. You can join the Ken Coleman grumpy old man club,

because I paid mine off, and my wife paid hers off when we were married. And it's like, I don't think they should defer that. I don't think they should pay these things off. I don't like it. I don't think it's right. All right, then. If you agree, then keep walking it forward. I just didn't want the FOMO, you know?

Hey, you know what? Listen, you're going to have FOMO whether you're just learn now that FOMO is a choice. Right? It's a choice. That's a great call. And you know what else, Joe? You're rocking it, man. Yeah.

Pay these things off. You can still live with mom and dad a little longer and save up for that house payment or whatever. Take your time. I got to tell you this, John. It's very normal. But now being 46, having gone through the early 20s, I got married at 23. Okay? I get it.

But you don't have to buy a house to prove that you're a success or that you aren't a loser or whatever the narrative is. Joe doesn't have to be in a hurry to buy a house. It's not that. Man, if you get an apartment at 23, you're just pouring your money down the drain. You're just flushing it down the toilet. No, you're not. No, you're not. You're learning how to grow up.

You're saving some money outside of mom and dad's house. Yeah. And we're not talking about you, Joe. We're talking about anybody who's 23. Man, and you have the opportunity to live at home. It's a healthy situation. You pay those loans off really fast. And then go live in an apartment for a few years.

Yeah. Slow down. Save your money. Let this market cool off. Have cash in your hand and go put down 20%, 30%, 40% on a house when people need to get out, and you're going to get a great deal on a house. Yeah. Just everybody exhale for a second.

Yeah. Especially you 22, 23, 24-year-olds. Yeah. I mean, renting is not a sin. We've got to say that over and over and over. Let's go to Houston, Texas, where Jessica joins us. Jessica, you're on the Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you?

We're having a blast, Jessica. What's going on? So my husband and I have completed Baby Steps 1 through 3. Good. Way to go, Jessica. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you you we're very proud of it um and we are currently uh we currently just finished baby step three but we found it to be

very difficult because we recently just welcomed um our first baby in December. Yes, yes, yes. And we were told that we had to pay a third amount for us to have our baby at the hospital. So we paid that. It was in the budget. We paid it. But the problem is, is that we keep receiving medical bills from myself and my son's stay at the hospital. So we found with step three, it was a constant, we were saving for three to six months and then stopping and then saving and then stopping to pay off the medical bills. And now that we're transitioning to step four, we're not sure how to still treat the medical bills if we should still treat it like it's a debt, because we're finding that we're constantly starting and stopping because we just received these random medical bills from the birth of our son. In the ER, they had this, you know, it was like a robot on an iPad, and they brought them out, and they said, here's what the cost is going to be. And I have an HSA, so I paid the HSA, and the amount they wanted, I didn't have that much in my HSA account.

And so they said, well, we'll just move what you owe us down. I said, I don't want to cash pay. I don't want to give you any insurance. I just want to pay cash and get out of here. So they moved it down, and I have this recorded. I said, you're telling me this is the final bill forever this is it they're like yes your cash pay you're gonna be able to walk out of here and we're gonna all high five i said it again and again and again and there's this thing saying this call is being recorded and it's flashing up

there right and then just the other day i got another bill so what'd you do i'm gonna call the hospital and say you're gonna going to check your records. I'm not going to pay anymore. We agreed on this. I gave you this cash. And what I think, I don't always think it's the hospital's fault. I think different departments bill differently, but there's a central department that says, here's the cost.

They need to get their house in order. So what I would do is fight this and give them a call. Say, here's what we agreed on. I'm not paying this anymore. And if you send me the collections, I'm going to go get a great attorney in Houston. Okay? Don't let them take advantage of you. You paid your bills.

You'd be done with it. Go fight this, Jessica. All right. Don't move. More Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls about your life, your money, your relationships, your work. 888-825-5225, our scripture of the day, Hebrews 10, 23 and 24.

Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful, and let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Our quote of the day from Anne Frank, No one has ever become poor by giving. That's powerful stuff. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Boise, Idaho, where Roberto joins us. Roberto, you're on the Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys. Thank you for having me. You bet. What's going on? Hey, so just a question. I'm 24 years old. I'm a new registered nurse. I just graduated in December.

Congratulations, man. Thank you. I appreciate that. The only debt that I have is something that I did pretty dumb about a month ago. I purchased a new truck. So it's about $24,000 in debt. Okay. anesthesiologist and the average cost of the entire three-year program is about $130,000, depending on what school you go to. So I've been having some like buyer's regret and I wanted to get someone's opinion. Like, do I sell the truck and focus on saving for school or do I just pay off the truck first and then go from there? I didn't know if I,

if I sold the truck, if I needed to treat the future debt like how I would in Baby Step 2 and just focus on saving up all that money for school. How much is the truck worth? So the truck is worth, I'd say $19,000. The extra $4,000 or $5,000 was for the maintenance and the warranty and stuff. How much do you make right now? I make, every month, I make, I would say, $1,700. I'm sorry. You're nursing at the wrong place.

Yeah, $3,500 a month. How old are you? I'm 24. Okay. Yeah, I mean, get rid of the truck. You know, but you've got to have something to drive, I'm guessing, or are you in a situation where you could use public transportation to get to your job? I have no idea what Boise, Idaho is looking like and where you're at.

What are your transportation needs? Yeah, I'd probably have to buy a car. I have about, like, $4,000, $5,000 saved up. Yeah. Let me tell you something. This is what I want you to do tonight. Before you go to bed, I want you to go on autotrader.com or find other cars.com. I don't care.

I'm not endorsing any website. I'm just telling you, go. Go to one of those websites and just put in your budget and see what's out there. I think it's going to blow your mind of how much quality, something that will get you A and B and it doesn't look like rats have been living in it. And I think that's what you do. And you get this debt out of your life, and now you're back to square one where you're debt-free.

And then I'd get after it. I'd work. I'd take as much overtime. I don't know what the options are for you as a nurse there, but you want to save up and cash flow your way through this. The other thing I want to challenge you on is you said on average the schooling you want to do is $130,000. What's the low end on that? Like $100,000.

I'd go $100,000. And let me tell you why. Nobody, I mean nobody, Roberto, cares where you went to school. Take the cheapest option. If it's viable, take the cheapest option. Don't go average. Go the lowest cost possible. And I would delay it.

I'd work my tail off, and I'd delay it until I have it all in the bank because it's just not going to be worth it. I promise you. Roberto, I want you to hear what he's saying. The next three years, right, you're 24 years old. You're playing a 30-year-old game as a 24-year-old. You're going to work every weekend. You're going to work every night.

You're going to stack that money and stack it and stack it and stack it, and then you're going to go pay cash. Along the way, you're going to develop a reputation as a great nurse. I was going to say killer nurse, and that had a bad connotation. You're going to be recognized as a great nurse. You're going to get some extraordinary experiences because there's difference of working the night shift as the morning shift. You know that. And then you're going to be ready to exhale and go to a graduate program, get your feet underneath you.

You're going to be ready to exhale and go to a graduate program, get your feet underneath you. You're going to pay cash, and then you're going to come out as a 28-, 29-year-old making a jillion dollars as a nurse anesthesiologist, and you're going to have no debt, and then it's going to be game on, brother. And listen, don't just hear what John said. I want you to feel the truth behind what John said. Because when you do that, he just gave you a beautiful fast-forward into the future. And when you come out that way, there's going to be other people in that anesthesia program that are just crushed by debt,

and every nickel they're making is going just to keep their nose above water. I want you to feel that future. I want you to feel the difference, if you can. If you can place yourself in where your other fellow students will be versus where John placed you, that will keep you from being tempted. I'm telling you, the degree is there, the anesthesiology jobs are there,

the money are there, but please, please, please do it the right way. Here's a picture of what that looks like. I was a dean of students of a law school, and then I went back to get a second degree. I drove an old Corolla, like an 01 or a 2000 Corolla. Because I wasn't going to put my money over here versus over there. It didn't make me any better than anybody else or anything like that. And, man, my buddies gave me a hard time, my friends and colleagues. And they should have, right? I looked ridiculous.

But it was an internal decision. I want this more than this, right? And so I want him to know, man, you can keep pulling into that same hospital parking lot over the next two, three, four years in a used Honda or a used whatever. You're not going to impress anybody. That's not your goal right now.

Your goal is a debt-free, walking across that graduation stage as an anesthesiologist, a nurse anesthesiologist, knowing nobody, anything. And then, brother, the world is yours, right? Yeah. Now you're talking about stacking money. And anywhere in the country, right?

You could go anywhere with that degree. Yeah. You know, I want to stay here because I think this is such a temptation and it's a mental mountain for people to get over, an emotional mountain to get over. Let's play this out. So if somebody does it the way everybody else, if Roberto does it the way everybody else does it, he's not going to, he's already told us that.

You come out and you're so burdened by debt and you realize that, okay, I got the degree, I got the job, I got the job, I'm making good money, but I'm not tasting the fruits of that. I'm not seeing the fruit of that. I know I'm making it, but it's disappearing. And then all of a sudden the resentment and frustration begin to build and it becomes toxic.

And then they call the Ken Coleman Show, John, and they go, I'm burned out. I've got to find a new career. And then they call the Ken Coleman show, John. They go, I'm burned out. I don't, I don't, I don't, I got to, I got to find a new career. And I go, what? And we dive into it. We find out, no, you don't. You're just miserable. You're resenting yourself.

You're resenting the job because you're having to work crazy hours and you don't find yourself getting ahead. And you go, did I make the wrong decision? You didn't make the wrong decision on the work is what I find most of the time. You made the wrong decision financially, and then you just never get ahead. And Versus is holding off here, and he comes out, and he goes, man, I'm doing the work I love. I'm in my sweet spot, but boy, oh, boy, I'm also seeing the fruits of the labor. When we were getting in shape, we had to pull tires. Yeah.

You sprint, and you're pulling that tire behind you. And, man, you sure can run fast in a game when you don't have the tire behind you, right? Isn't that the truth? And that's debt, right? And you can run anywhere you want to. Yeah. It's awesome. So you've got to be careful.

It's such a great exercise, John, to get out there in front of it and go, wait a second, what's the desired future if I don't do the debt? What's the future look like if I am straddled you know or saddled rather with debt you know and well here's his life he's got a 24 000 truck he's going to go to work in a high stress high yes secondary traumatic stress gig is hard his buddies are going to want to get off shift and go hang out go eat go hang out go eat he's going to meet somebody they're going to bring debt into that relationship too and then they're going to need to buy a house and then he's going to meet somebody. They're going to bring dead into that relationship too. And then they're going to need to buy a house. And then he's going to want to go to grad school.

And then suddenly you're going to look up. And like you mentioned, you're going to be living life underwater. Yeah. As opposed to just biting down on your mouthpiece for a couple of years, going in there swinging, and you turn around 26, 27 years old. Yeah. Man, you set your entire legacy up. And it's so frustrating, Ken, and it's so hard.

I know. Here's what I've found. Just about anybody so frustrating, Ken, and it's so hard. I know. Here's what I've found. Just about anybody says, I'm willing to do what it takes. You betcha. But then you say, are you willing to wait as long as it takes? Whoa. Hold on. I thought of that, Ken.

That's good. Everybody's willing to do what it takes. Very few are willing to wait as long as it takes. That's the difference. Patience is the magic. You've got to have it. Hey, I want to thank my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. Always fun to be with you, pal.

I want to thank our producer, Ben Hill. I want to thank Kelly Daniel, our associate producer. And I want to thank you, America. Thank you for joining us. This is your show. This is The Ramsey Show. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast.

It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.