The Ramsey Show - App - How Do I Monetize a Teaching Idea? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 30, 2021

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Music Music Music Music Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW

as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Christy Wright. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and about your money. Jason is with us in Phoenix. Hi, Jason. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave.

Hey, Christy. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So, me and my spouse, we make a combined income of almost $400,000 a year. Wow. And I started listening. Yeah, we're incredibly blessed. And we started listening to your show about a year ago, and we've been cranking away on debt. But I got to admit, I haven't been completely following the steps. We have been continuing to completely fund our 401k during Baby Step 2.

And my question is, because of deferring taxes, should we continue to completely fund our 401ks, or should we shut that off until we finish out this last $105,000 in debt? How quickly are you going to finish? Year and a half, if not sooner. Well, I tell people to stop their retirement temporarily. So what's that going to cost you, a year and a half of investing? Which is certainly not the end of the world.

It's not going to mean that you are bankrupt. It's not going to mean. And if you don't follow our guidance and keep doing what you're doing, are you still going to win? Yeah, you'll still win. That's a year and a half if you're funding the 401K. It's a year if you don't, right? Correct.

You should pay off $100,000 a year making $400,000, really. I mean, really. That leaves you $100,000 a year making $400,000, really. I mean, really. That leaves you $300,000 to struggle through on. Barely squeezed by. It's going to be rough. What kind of debt is it? It's one vehicle, one RV, and a home equity loan. Okay. Yeah, the point is that the reason you're going to be fine either way,

and you kind of know that before you ask, right? The reason we tell people to stop, even though it is mathematically incorrect, to temporarily stop their retirement savings, even if there's a match, while they get out of debt is simply this. Personal finance is 80% behavior. It's 20% head knowledge. And the power of focus supersedes

short-term mathematical gains. And so getting this done and leaning in with a singular focus and a growl in your voice when you write down your budget each month, ah, you know, that is actually 10 years from today will have made you more money than this one year of investing would have made you. And so that's the argument, and that's why we tell people to do it, because doing three things at once causes you to get nothing done. Now, in your case, you've got so stinking much wood that you can throw on this fire

that the fire's going to keep burning anyway. You're going to make it, because, my God, you just make so much money. I mean, you're overwhelming the question with your income you know gotcha and i mean in other words you can get away with you can get away with screwing this up and still come out you're gonna be okay either way the thing is jason is it's up to you how long you want this to last because if you want to be out of debt in a year stop your retirement if you want to be out of debt sooner put more than whatever you're putting on it you take the money you're putting in retirement put that towards your debt maybe you live on less

for a shorter amount of time you could be out of debt even faster it's up to you how quickly do you want to be out of debt here's the here's the only in your situation situation, it's a harder argument to make is what I'm saying, but still philosophically and conceptually what we teach people to stop stands. In your case, maybe there's one other argument because you're obviously high-performance people, and me too. So I sometimes will engage in a behavior that is not necessary for me to win because I want new grooves in my brain. I want the old sewage washed out. And so this is like breakthrough behavior. You know, you're shifting your behaviors, you're shifting your habits,

and it kind of pisses you off that you have to stop this and it's like this makes me never go into debt again and if i kind of play it round and wallow out i'm i didn't get the groove in my brain i didn't get the crap washed off my brain from the bad way of doing it this is this is like a cleansing a reset yeah uh you know it's the cold shower thing you know yeah uh the the what do they call them the cooling pool when you jump into the cool you know it shocks the system and resets and for high performance people that's necessary well and it's the people that stand on this debt-free stage that tell their story, it's this visceral never going back because of the sacrifice they had to go through to get to that point. And if you don't have that sacrifice, if you don't have some type of, man, this is uncomfortable and hard and I'm a little mad about it, then you may go back.

That's a good point. You may go back. You're like, I went that hard. Let's do it again. I don't think he's going to go back. But what I'm saying is it just retrains it's like i'm the the groove my my habit my my behaviors are permanently shifted yeah because i forced myself through some discomfort right yeah that that's a high performance activity people that are high performance do that kind of thing so that that's um i catch myself doing that in all kinds of

different areas of my life i'm like okay, okay, I got to break that. In order to break that, I got to go over here. And like, I got to create an uncomfortable thing so that never go back over there. Yeah. You know, and that kind of a deal. So that's kind of where I would throw this to. But either way, dude, you're going to be just fine. You keep cranking that.

If you do either one of these two plans, mathematically, you're going to be fine. But that's the argument for stopping your retirement temporarily while you're in baby step two and the rest of you don't even call me ask that question because i'll just tell you don't do it i'm not gonna give you as much grace i gave him because you're not making 400 grand all right i can just hear me I can hear him dialing up right now LaQuentin isn't smart you told him hey LaQuentin what's up hey Dave hey Christy thanks for having me huge fan of the show

thanks okay so I have kind of a two part question here so earlier this year in February my new bride and I were married because of the whole COVID thing. Obviously, we pushed off a larger wedding ceremony until the summer of this year.

That's coming up next month. One of the questions that we've been struggling with is, and we've honestly tried to do the Dave Ramsey plan, starting with Baby Step 1 like twice, and we've blown through our emergency fund like twice, only because obviously the wedding's coming up and we've needed to take care of some expenses. That's not an emergency. That's piss-poor planning. You're already in trouble, LaQuentin. You're already in trouble.

You've already done, you know, you need to budget this wedding out. It's not an emergency when you decide you're going to hire a photographer. It's a decision. So you don't touch your emergency fund for that. So, hey, hold on. We're going to give you a wedding gift. We'll put you through Financial Peace University with a Ramsey Plus membership.

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Christy Wright, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Louise is in Akron, Ohio. Hi, Louise. How are you? Hi, Dave and Christy. Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? I have a question about starting a Roth after retiring. My situation is I have a little over $100,000 in a 457. I'm 56. I retired a couple years ago, and I don't plan on needing it anytime soon. So I wanted to take out about $10,000 a year from it and put that in a Roth so that it grows tax-free. The 457 plan sent me the paperwork for it, but they also sent me a lot of information about how I make more in the 457 because their fees are lower. So is moving some of it to a Roth a good idea?

What's it invested in in the 457? It's invested in a couple of, they call it large cap, mid cap, and small cap funds. What kind of returns have you been getting? I've been getting some pretty good returns. I'm averaging about 12%. Yeah, okay. That's about what you should be able to do. Good.

Okay. So I don't know that they're correct on the fees. I think that's probably just them trying to protect their accounts, their portfolio. But I don't think you're going to gain a huge amount by moving money out of this to an IRA in mutual funds that perform similarly. I think you're going to have about a break even there. The only thing you could have is the money from this point forward could grow tax-free. However, you're going to have to pay taxes on whatever you move. So do you have some extra money that's not this account?

What they do is they withhold 20% of the taxes. No, they don't either. That's not up to them. If you withdraw it, they withhold 20%. But that's not going to be their option. You can roll the whole thing to a traditional IRA, and they don't withhold a dime. Then when you roll it from a traditional, they're not allowed to withhold on that. That's a direct transfer rollover.

Okay. Into a traditional. I would have enough to cover the taxes on about $10,000 a year. Okay. If you roll it all to a traditional, get with a SmartVestor Pro, put it in similar mutual funds, you're going to make about the same money, and if you roll $10,000 a year out, you're going to have about a $2,500 tax bill on that, and you're going to cash flow that tax bill.

That's what you're saying, right? Correct. So you don't have any other money? Yeah. So you don't have any other money? Yeah, I've got an emergency fund and some other money and a fund for like home repairs, car repairs. Okay. And are you working your Encore career after you retire? Because you're young. Yes, I'm running a small farm. Okay. So what kind of money are you making there? Not a lot. Last year I grossed about $3,000, but I'm having the time of my life.

Yeah, okay. So I want you to start making some money while you're having the time of your life too, okay? Okay. Yeah, let's get a little bit of business model. I'll turn you over to Christy on the farm here uh she's also someone who's lost money on a farm so i'm with you louise i was having a lot of fun a lot of work but a lot of fun yes you know in addition to everything dave's talking about i'll send you my book business boutique uh woman's guide for making money doing what she loves it you can do both you can have you can. You can play, enjoy the farm, and also make some income that will help take the pressure off, give you some options, and just get that income up a little bit.

So we'll send you that as well. Yeah. Here's the reason I'm pushing you on that, okay? Number one, you're young and you've got a lot of time left, a lot of runway left to on-ramp, to go do something big and fun and make some money. Number two, you kind of need to. $100,000 isn't that much money. True.

So your nest egg's not huge. And I would love for it to be. If you told me you had a million in there and you wanted to goof off on the farm and make no money, we can talk about it. But I need you to grow this nest egg for you. And screwing around with $10 thousand dollars is not fixing this um adding tens of thousands of dollars into your investments every year is going to fix it and get this thing up and that's going to require income so that's what i would tell you to do is work on this side

of the equation too hold on we'll have madison pick up we'll send you a copy of christy's book open phones at 888-825-5225 rachel is in california hi rachel welcome to the ramsey show hi what an honor to talk to you both thank you for taking my call sure what's going on my question today for you is um me and my husband um we have about fifty50,000 in a savings account in the bank. It was going to be used towards me going to school. However, we had a child. He's about a year now. And I'm a stay-at-home mom. And my husband loves being the breadwinner. I'm itching to go back to work. I'm itching to go back to school. But he wants to use that $50,000 that we have to start a business. And he's always had businesses. And in this case, he wants to start a trucking

business. And we both really just need some wisdom and guidance what to do next. This is interesting, Rachel. This is an interesting question because this isn't as much about money as it is about values, what you want to do with money versus what he wants to do with the money. So I'm curious, if you go back is, I understand, a huge commitment with a child and even just to go back to work would be great. But I want to respect what my husband wants for the family structure. Yeah. This is a conversation that I think would be so beneficial to have with a counselor, not because y'all are broken and your marriage is having a hard time, but sometimes it can be so helpful to have a third party walk through what are his fears of you going back to work? What are his desires?

What are your desires to go back to work? What are your fears around money and that type of thing? Dig to the deeper layers going on in this conversation that I believe is a lot more than just financial, but here's the key. Both of you need to be heard. Both of you need to be a participant. Both of you need to be respected. He does need to be respected, as do you, Rachel.

Both of you need to be respected, heard, seen, in the name of respecting his view of the structure of the family, that creates an unhealthy relationship 10 years from today. You will resent it. That's not going to work. You can only hold your breath so long so it needs to be where both of you have worked this thing through and you went you know what i like that i don't like it as much as b but i like a and let's go do this and uh there's you know you're gonna both of you are going to concede something but where you just say

well i'm going to completely walk away from what I care about, my dreams, my thing, because of his view of the family structure. That sounds bad when you just when you say that. Yeah. So I think that the beautiful music is made when both of you can play your instruments loud and um and even if they're not in perfect harmony but at least you're both playing them loud so i think christy's right on seeing someone and having them help you unpack that We'll be right back. Brad and Marisa are with us in New Haven, Connecticut. It says on my screen, you guys are debt-free. Congratulations.

Thank you. Hi, Dave. Hey, how much have you guys paid off? We've paid off $88,608.27. Awesome. Way to go. How long did that take? That took us 22 months.

Wow. And your range of income during that time? $140,000 up to $175,000. Good. Awesome. What do you guys do for a living? I'm in finance. And I was a teacher.

Now I'm a stay-at-home mom and a freelance writer. Cool. Yeah. And good. So what kind of debt was the $89 oh we had it all uh two car loans 401k loan student debt medical bills and of course credit cards of course you guys were like normal how long y'all been married 10 years 13 13 almost like I guessed it right. Good, okay. So after 11 years of marriage, you looked up 22 months ago and said,

something's got to change. Tell us the story. What happened? Yeah, absolutely. We were just sick and tired of living paycheck to paycheck, and especially not knowing where all our money was going at the end of the year. Yeah, the end of the month was always like, where did it go? We had no idea.

And then Dave, you were a guest on another podcast that we both listened to, and he came home from work one day and said, hey, did you, you know, this guy Dave Ramsey was on, and I really like what he had to say, and asked if I can grab the total money makeover the next time I went to the library. And I had said, oh, I heard that today, too, and I really liked it. So I'll get the book and I'll read it with you. And the next day, I think we got the total money makeover, read it in, oh, gosh, maybe two days. And that was it. Whose podcast?

We drank the Kool-Aid. Cool. Whose podcast? You were on Ben Shapiro's Sunday special. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Good.

Yeah. Ben and I have become friends since then. That's very nice. Oh, that's awesome. He's a great guy. He's a great guy. Their whole team just moved to Nashville to get out of California just a little while ago.

Yes. Yes. Yeah, that's right. New neighbors. Well, cool. Way to go, guys. That's's so fun i'll have to tell him that happened he'll like hearing that so eighty nine thousand dollars later the total money makeover told you how to do it you go and do it right we did talk a little bit about what this was like in your marriage because y'all been married for over a decade when you started this plan. Talk a little bit about what it was like to work as a team and have such an intense goal.

Yeah, absolutely. This is probably the biggest thing for our marriage too, is just having the joint commitment to tackle this and change our spending behavior and especially change our family tree. It all started off with us coming know, us coming together, reading this book, like we said, drink the Kool-Aid. And then we sat down together for the first time, did a monthly budget. And together, you know, we took that first step on this new lifestyle change. Yeah. Good for you.

And I would say it actually, you know, we've been through quite a lot in 13 years and but i would say that this was probably um just brought us so much closer than than any of the other things we've done over the years yeah it does it's really it's it's it's just amazing and in that sense what it did for our marriage the only way to pull it off is to work together and the only way to work together is to be more unified than you've ever been. So, yeah, it's a pretty intense transformative process for sure. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Like Brad said, just the joint commitment

and being willing and able to make those changes, especially in your behavior, doing it together and communicating your goals and your, you know, hopes for the future. And we've done a lot of those dream meetings over the last two years. And, of course, the budget. The budget's huge because we never did that before. When we wrote out our debts, I put it on like this little drawing. I made it like a big brick wall, you know, smallest to largest.

And just staring at it, you're like, this is going to take forever. But you've got to take the first step, and it happened a lot faster than we thought. And I know you preached that too on your show, and it's true, but it still feels when you're at the beginning like, oh, God, this is going to god this is gonna take forever yeah yeah yeah it's a huge mountain sitting in front of you eighty nine thousand dollars worth yeah pretty cool it was gonna take a long time it was very daunting what was the hardest part what was the hardest part that the dauntingness um i think it was actually the hustle um marisa also did waitressing to help accelerate this payoff so we would just be passing each other i would come home from work

and she'd be on her way out and you know we have three young kids so uh no breaks we went intense so i think just getting at it that was that was hard and we did that for for a while um but it paid off in the end so it could have taken a lot longer but she's a tough woman so she got after it yeah we didn't see each other much yeah well you increased your income thirty five thousand dollars during this time yeah yeah yeah you had to be you know unless somebody just got some inordinate raises you guys have been after it. That's pretty cool. We hustled. That's what it takes.

The good news is now that you're free, how does it feel now that you're free? Oh, my gosh. I think for me the freedom was the biggest part, and that really hit me back in the fall when it was time for schools to reopen and our school district was so wishy-washy and they're going back, they're not. And at that point, we were on our last debt and our snowball was big enough where we were able to still make our snowball payments, but also cash flow, private school for our oldest daughter for the year. And I felt like this is what freedom feels like. This is, you know, I'm not, not, um, yeah, using debt to support it or just not knowing how we're supporting it, just doing it. Yeah. And just being able to know that we didn't have to be at the mercy of you know teachers unions or politicians it was a big like that so that for

me was was i think when it really hit that like wow look what we can do yeah money money has no value at all except what it will do and one thing it does is it gives you options yes that you don't have if you don't have money and you had options you could reach over to a private school keep the kid rolling and uh you know uh you know you you can avoid this that's one of the reasons that the pandemic had such a hard time the heart the hardest people hit in the pandemic the economic suppression from the pandemic was the uh folks on the bottom rungs. I mean, you know, who lost their jobs? Well, it wasn't white-collar executives at Wall Street.

They didn't lose their jobs. Who lost their jobs were the maids at the hotel because the hotel was closed down. The waitresses, you know, you were waiting tables. You saw it. And those restaurants closing up, the people that could least afford to lose their jobs or the ones that lost their jobs. It was a horrible thing, horrible inequality of how the economic suppression brought on by the governments

and how it affected everybody. So, anyway, enough of that. Way to go, you guys. I'm so proud of you. So proud of you. We got a copy of The Legacy Journey of you. So proud of you. We got a copy of The Legacy Journey for you. That is the next chapter in your story for sure.

You have changed and set your legacy. It is a new thing for you. So proud of you. Also got a copy of Total Money Makeover because that's what changed you guys. And now you can give it to somebody when they ask and you say, oh, read this. And I'll give you an extra copy to give away. And I'm glad the book was there to help you and the podcast and everything else. Brad and Marissa, $89,000 paid off in 22 months, making $140,000 to $175,000. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. We're set. Scream! This is how it's done. That's awesome. Wow, wow, wow, wow. Great job.

Great job. Great job. our scripture of the day ecclesiastes 10 10 if the axe is dull and its edge unsharpened, more strength is needed, but skill will bring success. John Maxwell says small disciplines repeated with consistency every day lead to great achievements gained slowly over time. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jay is in Orlando. Hi, Jay. How are you? Hey, Dave. Hey, Christy.

How are you guys today? Better than I deserve. How can we help? That's great. So I have a, I hope, a unique question. I wrote, so I'm a cybersecurity architect, and I wrote a framework similar to your baby steps for cyber security addiction, cyber, no, sorry, cyber addiction. And I want to know what to do with it next.

You know, as cyber guys, we are always writing like root cause analysis. And I wrote that. I wrote a cause, a condition, and a cure. And there's a lot of parallels to your baby steps and that kind of thing. And it kind of, like I got it it like i've figured out what to say um now i gotta get people to say it too so i wanted to call and ask what you would recommend who's it for people that are addicted more specifically right i mean like what's the what's your persona? Sorry. So the groups would be so family, like you see a lot of pastoral counseling is javelin, families, interpersonal marriages, just people, right? People, the way things are working now with a lot of applications, there's a lot of addiction type like UIs that are being

created where it's kind of like you walk in the front end of a casino, right? And there's lots of things going on. I don't want to get too geeky on you, but there's this psychometric mapping that anyway, I've got a way to prove all that. I've got a way to help people

out of that. I've got a method very similar. I came down and I said, can I figure out what happened? Can I figure out how it's changing people? And can I figure out how to actually help them get out? And I got a way to do that. So in terms of cyber addiction, are we talking I'm a little bit, just a little more clarification, are you talking about like people addicted to online porn, or are you talking about people just addicted to checking their Facebook 73,000 times a day?

Or playing games on their apps or something. Great question. So actually, it's my opinion that in all those cases, the same thing is happening in all those cases, right? It's like being addicted to food or addicted to anything else. There's a change that occurs with a high adherence to any type of UI like that. So your mind is being remapped no matter what. So I think the cure would be very similar in all those cases. Well, I think the reason I ask the question is i think not not about the the process but what i'm trying to get clarification on is your customer base is different if you're

going after people that are addicted to porn than if you're going after 52 year old women who can't get off of facebook that's that's why i was asking who's your market like who's who are you specifically creating this for i would start out with families okay the The first questions that I get most of the time is, I can't connect with my kids anymore. So they've got their nose buried in a, you know, it could be like with young adolescent males, there's a lot of porn going on, right? And there's a lot of pressure towards their, it's like prevalent. But when you're talking with teenage girls, right, it's a different thing, right? And if you look at the whole family unit, really everybody's got their hook.

Everybody's got their different hook from fathers like me to, you know, everybody. So I would approach it from a family point of view, first of all. I think that's the way I would do it. Okay. What you're going to struggle with is you need to, in order to get this to market, you need to narrow your persona. We've asked you the question three different ways, and we've gotten broad answers every time. I want to get this to families.

That's just too broad. So you need to say, I want to get this to families that are doing X, Y, and Z. Families that are disconnected, that aren't having conversations with their kids. That's all families. that's all families but built but building that out from even a income level a psychographic geographic however you want to and then you'll know how to talk to them because where to find them yeah where to find them because that's the trick is is um i mean the irony is is that you'll probably find them online. Yeah, yeah.

You know, you may be doing some blogging. You may be doing some stuff to get their attention, and then with keywords, and then set that out into the Facebook universe and out into the Google universe and begin to pull back with SEO. But again, you need to be targeting something more specifically than you are. And the person in the family that's going to do something about it. And it doesn't have to be a certain gender, just moms or just dads. But pick a person that you're speaking to, the one that is motivated to fix this problem. Because what's interesting about your situation, Jay, with this specific problem is many people have this problem and don't know it's a problem.

Ironically, they do with money as well. They have a money problem and they don't know that they do. Half of the job is telling them people have this problem and don't know it's a problem ironically they do with money as well they have a money problem they don't know that they do is this something the job is telling them they have a problem is this something you get to the marriage counseling community the pastoral counseling community and then they deliver it to their uh constituents or are you going direct to the consumer and if you're the more you're going to go direct to the consumer the more you're going to have to decide exactly who it is, at least for the first wave. Right. You can broaden it later.

Yeah. But for the first wave, you know, for the first wave of financial peace, the book, we were not going after 65-year-olds. Back then, in 1994, 65-year 65 year olds most of them had common sense and the book was about common sense i'm not sure i could say that today about 65 year olds but the ones from 30 years ago yeah uh you know that are now 90 uh had common sense yeah and uh so i was not going after them i was going after the 34 year old mom sitting in a carpool line with student loan debt credit card debt and i had a fight with her husband about the money and so that's that's what christy means about a persona now when once i know that she's

the target then that changes the content message the uh the narrative that you use and you know where to locate them uh you know where where do you find a 34-year-old mom sitting in a carpool line? You know, and where do you find a 65-year-old white male? You know, I don't need him, and so I don't need – that's a Rush Limbaugh listener when Rush was alive. You know, and no disrespect or anything, but I just know that that's not my market. Right. And that's not where we're going with it. Right.

And so who are we trying to help? And then we're going to get it very narrow and go straight to them, and then that will help you locate the pool of potential prospects. Yeah. Let me give you something real specific and tactical that you can do, Jay, because it sounds like to me that you're in the early stages of this. It's still somewhat theory. I know you said you have steps and you have a plan and it's proven it will work and so on.

I think that's great. What I want you to do is take that to market on a really small kind of experimental research basis. So reach out to anybody you know. That could be family, friends, your church, workplace, community, Facebook. I don't care. Just people that fall within the general target market of who you're trying to help maybe some families that represent you know that that ideal customer and i want you to take them through it maybe it's for free just for feedback and then as you walk them through this framework have them go through the plan you're going to get testimonials you're going to

get feedback on things that need to change you'll learn more about your messaging how they describe it will give you some words to put to it of how you can describe it to more people. It will also give you a base to start to ask for referrals and word of mouth. It's a very organic way to start as you're getting this thing to market. And then you can get a little more sophisticated through online marketing, whether that's through social media or other paid marketing, that type of thing, once you get your language right. But you need to have real people help you with the language of how they talk about it

so you can talk about how they talk about it. So just start with what you have, the people that you know. Take some people through it, and that will give you some feedback to begin to grow it a little bit. Yeah, the language that the customer uses is more important than the language that you think they should use. Yes. Actually, hearing the words that they use and how they use them and how they truncate some of your thoughts into single words. Yes.

And that kind of a thing. And so that's what you're looking for, because that that calls you to build your content and your narrative out then. So very interesting discussion. Jay, it sounds like you're on to something. Sounds like it's needed for sure. Oh, I know it's needed. Don't lay it down. But let's get it narrow enough that you can get it off the ground're on to something, man. Sounds like it's needed, for sure. Oh, I know it's needed. Don't lay it down.

But let's get it narrow enough that you can get it off the ground, that it has some power, has some oomph. So, good question, sir. Christy Goodhour. Thanks, it's great. Good job to James Childs and Kelly Daniels in the booth. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to the Ramsey show dot com. Thanks for listening.